{"id":304360,"date":"2017-01-30T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-01-30T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/when-viewpoints-differ\/"},"modified":"2017-01-30T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-01-30T17:00:00","slug":"when-viewpoints-differ","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-viewpoints-differ\/","title":{"rendered":"When Viewpoints Differ"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Author Scott Sauls encourages believers to pursue those who are different from us. Sauls reminds us that Jesus befriended prodigals and Pharisees, sinners and outcasts.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-01-30.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.07M","filesize_raw":"25238054","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2867,2822,2821],"tags":[6187,6190,6188,6189,6191],"podcast_series":[8189],"cwp_profile":[3442],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304360","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-church-involvement","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-reaching-out","tag-befriend","tag-gentrification","tag-people-not-like-you","tag-pursue-friendships","tag-segregation","podcast_series-befriend","cwp_profile-scott-sauls","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304360\/when-viewpoints-differ","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304360\/when-viewpoints-differ","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"G8VE3otdmD\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-viewpoints-differ\/\">When Viewpoints Differ<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-viewpoints-differ\/embed\/#?secret=G8VE3otdmD\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;When Viewpoints Differ&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"G8VE3otdmD\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Author Scott Sauls encourages believers to pursue those who are different from us. Sauls reminds us that Jesus befriended prodigals and Pharisees, sinners and outcasts.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-01-30.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Many in the media today are referring to our country as a divided nation. The reality is most of us do not have friends who don\u2019t look, or act, or think like us. Pastor Scott Sauls says this is where the church needs to take action.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>We have been intentional; and we have taught our congregation to be as intentional as possible in forming relationships, you know, with people from different perspectives. We\u2019ve taken a lot of steps, in the last couple of years especially, to form relationships, cross-racially and cross-economically, with other sort of church communities. You know, we\u2019ve had those communities into our doors and we\u2019ve been into their communities as well. We\u2019ve got sort of this reciprocal thing going that is starting to develop slowly into partnerships. We\u2019re trying to be really intentional along those lines as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, January 30<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat can we do, as individuals or as families, to help promote unity\u2014and not division\u2014in our country? We\u2019re going to talk about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, you stop and think about the people over your lifetime that you have been closest to\u2014the people who have been your best friends\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014typically, those are folks with whom you have a lot of commonality, a lot of shared experiences, and a lot of shared beliefs. We are drawn, in relationship, to people who are like us. That may be just pure narcissism on our part: \u201cI like you because you remind me of me\u201d; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; exactly! Well, it occurs in the middle of running a race together \/ I\u2019m not talking about necessarily a physical race\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014or being in a bunker together around a common experience, where you\u2019re fighting against a common enemy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you\u2019re right, Bob: \u201cI like you because you like me \/ we like each other. So, let\u2019s be friends together.\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have the pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church. Scott Sauls joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Scott\u2014welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Thank you for having me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He has written a book called <em>Befriend: Create Belonging in an Age of Judgment, Isolation, and Fear.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And the interesting thing here is, Scott\u2014you are advocating in this book that we don\u2019t do what comes normally and naturally to us. But we go the other direction\u2014we pursue friendships with people who are different than us\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as a way of growing personally?\u2014as a way of representing the gospel? What is it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Do you know what I think, Bob? I think it\u2019s that Scott is a disrupter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> In his other book, <em>Jesus Outside the Lines, <\/em>he was kind of poking and prodding and kind of forcing you to think your way through on a few issues. We live in an age where we need some biblical thinkers to prod us, and poke us, and disrupt some of our familiar relationships that we have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So have other people described you as a disrupter, or is this new?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> I\u2019ve never specifically been called that until now. [Laughter] But I think I\u2019ve had people react to me, sometimes, as if I were a disrupter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re a provocateur; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Well, I\u2014I hope\u2014I hope so, to a degree, because I think Christ and the Apostles provoked in certain instances\u2014but, hopefully, not in an irritating, alienating kind of way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No; no! I didn\u2019t mean that at all, Scott.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> I know you didn\u2019t; but you know, you never can tell with some congregants and such. But you hope that, as you provoke and as you challenge, people also sense that you love them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, to your question, Bob\u2014I think it\u2019s both\/and. You know, C.S. Lewis, when he talked about friendship\u2014he said, \u201cA lot of friendships \/most friendships form when one person looks at another and says: \u2018Oh! You too?\u2019\u201d I think that\u2019s what the two of you are talking about. I certainly wouldn\u2019t want to delegitimize friendships with people that we have a lot in common with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> I mean, I think most friendships are going to form around that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the book really advocates, especially, for also prioritizing moving outside of our own tribes and way of thinking, recognizing that there\u2019s a whole lot that we can learn and a whole lot that we can contribute to the maturing and growing of one another as we relate across different experiences and even different perspectives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And can I just say\u2014that sounds noble and exhausting. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, part of me\u2014I read this and I think to myself: \u201cYou\u2019re right! Now, how do I find the space in my life?\u201d How have you found\u2014you\u2019re a pastor!\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you have a responsibility to shepherd the flock of God\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014to find margin in your life to go befriend somebody who is not a part of that group\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014I\u2019m thinking: \u201cIs this just theoretical for you, or have you done this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Well, we have done it. I think the first thing that I did\u2014the first cross-cultural relationship that I committed myself to was my marriage. [Laughter] I don\u2019t think you can get more cross-cultural than male and female\u2014even the genetic structures are different. [Laughter] And then we had children, from another generation\u2014so we had it built into our own home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, you know, we have been intentional. We have taught our congregation to be as intentional as possible. We\u2019ve taken a lot of steps, in the last couple of years especially, to form relationships, cross-racially and cross-economically, with other sort of church communities. You know, we\u2019ve had those communities into our doors and we\u2019ve been into their communities as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got sort of this reciprocal thing going that is starting to develop slowly into partnerships. So we\u2019re trying to be really intentional along those lines as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So give me\u2014just on a one-to-one level\u2014give me an example from your life\u2014not your wife \/ not your kids\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014but somebody where you pursued a friendship where it would not have happened normally or naturally; but you said, \u201cI need this, and I think it will be good for me and for the kingdom.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And, Bob, before he answers that,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014I just want to read through the chapters; because this is going to give our listeners an idea of who Scott is telling us to move toward; and then I can\u2019t wait to hear how he answers your question. But one is: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBefriending Prodigals and Pharisees\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBefriending the Shamed and Ashamed\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBefriending Ones You Cannot Control\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cSexual Minorities\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cDysfunctional Family Members\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThose Grieving and Dying\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBefriending the Poor and Empty-Handed\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBefriending the Other Race\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThe Rich and the Powerful\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBullies and Perpetrators.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, on and on it goes. You\u2019re calling us to move across some demilitarized zones here\u2014that are moving into enemy territory, Scott\u2014it feels dangerous.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> But I want to hear how you answer Bob\u2019s question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> I would say, probably, the most impactful real-time friendships would be with a couple of African American pastors, who are in different communities of Nashville\u2014you know, ministering and serving. A member of our church\u2014a guy named Marten Fadelle\u2014who heads up an organization in Nashville called \u201cJobs for Life\u201d works very closely, in tandem, with these pastors to help young men get on a meaningful, dignified vocational track. Marten has introduced me to a number of people in Nashville\u2019s African American community.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNashville is actually very segregated\u2014not by law but just by choice\u2014where people sort of hive off in their own sort of tribes and communities. Even, geographically, there\u2019s not a lot of cross-pollinating. So this has been\u2014and had to be\u2014a really intentional thing. It\u2019s been incredibly life-giving. You know, I\u2019ll go into, you know, Ronnie\u2019s environment; and he\u2019ll come into mine. I\u2019ll learn so much from him\u2014just about the way that he prays that\u2019s, you know, borne out of his story. He\u2019ll drive me around\u2014he\u2019s a bi-vocational pastor\u2014and so he also works for the city, particularly in the sort of zoning department. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe has educated me on the impact of things like gentrification on his community\u2014where, you know, like real estate developers\u2014like a lot of people who would be members of the church that I pastor\u2014you know, he says real estate developers, at their worst\u2014and he didn\u2019t identify anybody at my church that would do this\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but he said: \u201cThey\u2019ll come into these communities that have lived, for years, in the same neighborhoods; and they\u2019ll low-ball them,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cThey\u2019ll give them a low-ball offer on their house. The people will accept the offer, not knowing that they\u2019re getting low-balled, and sort of exploit the ignorance about real estate values in poorer communities. A whole community, before you know it, is displaced.\u201d African Americans have dispersed, and his church is now a commuter church because of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe helps me understand society from a different perspective; because Nashville, right now\u2014my city\u2014if you ask one community about Nashville, they\u2019ll say: \u201cOh, it\u2019s on the rise! Nashville\u2019s going places! It\u2019s the \u2018it\u2019 city. You know, New York and L.A. are calling Nashville the third coast.\u201d But then, if you ask people in the minority community and people in more economically-strapped communities to describe Nashville, it\u2019s the opposite: \u201cIt\u2019s getting harder and worse. We\u2019re not going to be able to live there much longer, because we\u2019re getting priced and taxed out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat that relationship has helped me to do is to really think, \u201cOkay, what\u2019s my responsibility?\u201d I\u2019ve got influence with almost 3,000 people in the church that I pastor, many of whom can do something about these dynamics with things like affordable housing and other important things to keep communities from getting displaced. That relationship itself has been a really significant, important partnership that\u2019s likely to develop in a lot more things doing\u2014you know, that we\u2019ll do together to serve both of our communities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How are you different because of that relationship?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> I think that I\u2019m more trained to see the world as being much bigger than the tribe that I\u2019m part of\u2014that there are other perspectives besides my own\u2014and that just because things might be going well in my community doesn\u2019t mean that things are going well in the community five\/ten miles away from where I am. I have a responsibility for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> So that\u2019s one of the many ways, but I just <em>love<\/em> him too\u2014he\u2019s just a dear friend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, he\u2019s referred to me as his pastor, and I\u2019ve referred to him as mine. We\u2019ve got just a really neat relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m glad you used that illustration; because we live in a country, right now, obviously, that has racial strife\/division.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We\u2019re in need of healing, and people wonder what they can do. Well, you can go near the other race that you\u2019re not a part of and seek to understand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And begin to relate to them and to ask questions. I can safely say that my, now 35-year, relationship with Crawford Loritts, who is African American\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes; his son, Bryan, is a good friend of mine.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; a good friend of mine as well. Anyway, whatever understanding I have\u2014which, I have to say, the more I get into the issue of race and our differences, the more respect I have for how little I truly understand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> But if more followers of Christ broke away from the safety of their tribe\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and went near someone else that was a safe person for them, but who could take them under their wing and coach them\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014there really are some great relationships and some terrific lessons to be learned in the presence of these folks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Absolutely; absolutely. I mean, a great example of that is Ronnie and another pastor named Thomas Hunter\u2014another African American leader in the Nashville community\u2014invited me to do the Martin Luther King march with them this past year. You know, as we did the march\u2014and, you know, there were Black Lives Matter protestors and things \/ just this whole movement\u2014that I need to understand, \u201cWhat\u2019s behind this?\u201d They were just explaining things to me, along the way, and introducing me to their friends, and just being so generous with helping me with my own ignorance and need to learn those things so I can understand a community that\u2019s in my city better\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and share a better life together with them\u2014rather than just going our separate ways.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Scott, I\u2019m glad we started with this; because this is a real issue today for every human being in our country\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014for every husband\/wife, mom and dad, for every young person\u2014they need to go near a person, who is different from them\u2014and learn and ask questions, especially when it comes to this racial issue\u2014but there are other issues and other differences that we have, as we do life, where we need to pay attention as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And sometimes there are people, about whom we think: \u201cThat\u2019s the <em>last<\/em> person I want to try to move toward or have any kind of a relationship with, because we just don\u2019t have <em>anything<\/em> in common. There\u2019s <em>nothing<\/em> drawing me to that person.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou tell a story about\u2014was this your personal experience?\u2014where you were leading a prayer meeting?\u2014or were you in a prayer meeting? How did this happen?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes; so we were, early on, planting our first church in Kansas City. We had a prayer meeting at somebody\u2019s house. There were, I don\u2019t know, maybe 15 people or so. And, by invitation, I think from somebody in our little group there, a married couple came in. He was completely drunk, and she just looked completely defeated\u2014it was kind of written all over her face. So, kind of as the pastor in the mix, I\u2019m just thinking, \u201cWhat do I do about this?\u201d I said, \u201cWell, we\u2019re here to pray, so let\u2019s all pray.\u201d We started praying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEventually, the man who\u2019d had a lot to drink\u2014and we\u2019d come to find out, later, he was also taking prescription medications that he\u2019d become addicted to\u2014in any event \u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It just wasn\u2019t a good prayer [from the man], in other words.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t good. He contributed to the prayer; and he prayed for, you know, 12-15 minutes or so. It was very odd things, like: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cYou know, Lord, I think the Klingons are coming. Protect us from the Klingons.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> \u201cWill You rain Jolly Ranchers down from heaven?\u201d [Laughter] You know, stuff like that and just very bizarre things. You know, I\u2019m kind of opening one of my eyes, just to see what\u2019s going on. As I do that, everybody\u2019s looking at me, while this guy\u2019s praying\u2014like, \u201cWhat\u2019s Scott going to do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt ended up\u2014after the prayer time was over\u2014I didn\u2019t have to do anything; because people approached him and said, \u201cYou know, we don\u2019t have Jolly Ranchers; but we have cookies. Do you like cookies?\u201d He was like, \u201cYeah, I love cookies!\u201d He ate like a whole plateful of cookies\u2014and then, like three or four people, while he was being taken over here\u2014three or four people approached his wife and said, \u201cHey, you know, what can we do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe short story is that because of that\u2014largely because of that group, he ended up in a rehab facility in Phoenix, Arizona. People from that little group would\u2014there were occasions where they would fly out. I flew out for a couple of days just to visit him \/ to be with him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShort story is that, within the next three years, he became an elder in the church\u2014that guy did. To this day, he\u2019s probably still, I think, probably one of the top-three <em>strongest<\/em> church leaders that I\u2019ve ever worked alongside; because whenever there was a messy, broken situation, he would automatically be the person that we would call upon. He would just masterfully shepherd hard situations like ones that he\u2019d been in himself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What you\u2019re reminding us of is 1 Corinthians 13: \u201cSo now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these three is love.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s powerful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> It\u2019s very powerful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that\u2019s a part of going toward someone and befriending someone who\u2019s not like you or doesn\u2019t <em>think<\/em> like you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But I\u2019ve got to go back to where I started here, because I\u2019m thinking: \u201cIf I\u2019m at that prayer meeting, and I know there\u2019s a messy guy here\u2014to move toward and to befriend him\u2014that is going to cost me time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s going to cost me energy. I mean, I\u2019m living with a pretty thin margin as it is today.\u201d I think that\u2019s why my reaction to those situations is, \u201cGet me away from here,\u201d\u2014not because I\u2019m uncomfortable moving toward a messy situation\u2014but because of what I know it\u2019s going to cost me in terms of time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> We\u2019re not uncomfortable moving toward those situations; we\u2019re uncomfortable with the prospect of <em>staying<\/em> in them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> And that\u2019s really\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And what it means to stay in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What it\u2019s going to cost us, not just time-wise, but sacrificially: \u201cWhat am I expected to do here?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes. Well, here\u2019s the beautiful thing about the New Testament and how it was originally written to us. You know, we live in the United States and in the West, which is predominantly individualistic\u2014in the way that we think, even in the way that we relate to God, and the way that we relate to the poor, and the way that we relate to these kinds of situations. We think, in the way you just asked the question, \u201cWhat am <em>I<\/em> to do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m always asking the same question: \u201cWhat am <em>I<\/em> to do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhereas\u2014if we read the New Testament in its original language \/ in the Greek\u2014this is where our Southern dialect in Nashville and Little Rock come into play. [Laughter] There are a whole lot of \u201cy\u2019all\u201ds in there, and not a whole lot of \u201cyou\u201d individuals in there. When Paul is writing these letters to the people of God, he addresses them as <em>communities<\/em>. We, as <em>communities<\/em>, are to follow Jesus into these broken situations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo Bob, with little margin, you may be the one to stroke the check to help get him to Arizona. This person over here\u2014who\u2019s unemployed, or underemployed, or retired\u2014may be the person to fly, and visit him, and shepherd him, and counsel him. In different ways, we are participating in what one another are doing by doing our part. You know, when Paul wrote to the churches, he didn\u2019t say, \u201cEach one of you\u2014you need to be a mercy person, a preacher, a Bible scholar,\u201d\u2014all of this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe says, \u201cTo some of you, God has given this gift; to others of you, this; and to others of you, this.\u201d And he gives this image of a collective body working together, which I think is a beautiful way to sort of think that the Lord is taking the pressure off of <em>me<\/em> and putting the burden on <em>us. <\/em>But the burden isn\u2019t really on <em>us<\/em>, as much as it is on <em>Him<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s why a deep gospel theology and gospel understanding\u2014that Christ has lifted the greatest burden off of us through forgiveness and the un-shaming of us\u2014so that we can be naked before Him, without shame in every way\u2014you know, again, because of the gospel and the cross. Because He has lifted burdens off of us, there is actually an energy that we can come in <em>together<\/em>\u2014not as individuals, but <em>together<\/em>\u2014to serve the needy among us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Scott, I think I just heard a listener exhale, and they got it; because they\u2019re the one who typically thinks: \u201cIt\u2019s all on me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI have to be the one that rescues the person,\u201d or \u201cI feel totally responsible for the person.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you\u2019re saying is: \u201cThis is really for the community of faith to rally together and to use different gifts to come alongside people who need the love of Christ expressed through different personalities, different gifts, and in different ways.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think this is a great way to train your children, whether they are younger or older, to be thinking about people in need\u2014but not rush in and be the <em>sole<\/em> rescuer\u2014but to perhaps organize or call other people to the table to be able to bring mercy, and grace, and help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And I think the point is\u2014you do what you can do. You bring your loaves and your fishes\u2014and even if it\u2019s not much\u2014you offer it. God takes it and multiplies it. If we all do that, that\u2019s how the body of Christ is designed to work together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that\u2019s how we can be agents of change in somebody else\u2019s life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is central to what you write about, Scott, in the book, <em>Befriend<\/em>. I hope our listeners will stop and think about how significant a subject this really is. I mean, this is an unusual topic to write a book about\u2014being a good friend and the importance of friendship\u2014your subtitle: <em>Creating Belonging in an Age of Judgment, Isolation, and Fear. <\/em>This is a part of the mandate of the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I hope our listeners will get a copy of the book, <em>Befriend.<\/em> You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to request your copy. Or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and order by phone. The website, again\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014the number is 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe title of the book, again, is <em>Befriend <\/em>by Scott Sauls. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have to tell you\u2014I have had the experience\u2014I know you\u2019ve had this, too, Dennis\u2014where we will be out somewhere and we\u2019ll meet a radio listener\u2014somebody who identifies himself or herself as a Legacy Partner, somebody who gives monthly and who prays regularly for the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And, Scott, it\u2019s almost like there\u2019s a friendship already there because there is something that we hold in common\u2014there\u2019s something that\u2019s deep and meaningful. We may come from very different backgrounds\u2014we may come from very different family structures, or ethnicities, or parts of the country\u2014but the commonality of wanting to come together to help strengthen marriages and families \/ to provide practical biblical help and hope for couples and for families\u2014that knits us together, even if we\u2019re just meeting for the first time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to take just a minute here and say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who are Legacy Partners. We really do appreciate your partnership with us, and we count you as friends. If you\u2019re a regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener, and you\u2019re not a Legacy Partner, would you think about joining the team?\u2014giving each month and praying for this ministry so that we can cover the costs of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re able to make a donation today, either as a one-time gift or as your first Legacy Partner gift, we\u2019d love to send you a resource that Barbara Rainey has created. It\u2019s a heart-shaped chalkboard designed for your home. It\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com and make a donation or when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation. Or you can mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you write to us, and you\u2019re interested in becoming a monthly Legacy Partner, please be sure to let us know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about what to do and what <em>not<\/em> to do to be a good friend to someone who is facing a challenge\u2014going through a struggle or a trial. We\u2019ll talk more about that with Scott Sauls tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. 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