{"id":304348,"date":"2017-01-20T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-01-20T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/marriage-is-a-grace-factory\/"},"modified":"2017-01-20T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-01-20T17:00:00","slug":"marriage-is-a-grace-factory","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-is-a-grace-factory\/","title":{"rendered":"Marriage\u00a0Is a Grace Factory"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>LeRoy and Kimberly Wagner share how her apology proved to be the turning point that led to reconciliation. Over time, the Wagners learned to appreciate their differences and to put love first.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-01-20.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"27.33M","filesize_raw":"28655902","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2902,2863,2831],"tags":[4584,6185,4634,4251],"podcast_series":[8187],"cwp_profile":[3400,9442],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304348","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-resolving-conflict","category-saving-a-marriage","category-wives","tag-fear","tag-god-protected-us","tag-grace","tag-pride","podcast_series-men-who-love-fierce-women","cwp_profile-kimberly-wagner","cwp_profile-leroy-wagner","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304348\/marriage-is-a-grace-factory","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304348\/marriage-is-a-grace-factory","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"PfiV9JfF3w\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-is-a-grace-factory\/\">Marriage\u00a0Is a Grace Factory<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-is-a-grace-factory\/embed\/#?secret=PfiV9JfF3w\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Marriage\u00a0Is a Grace Factory&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"PfiV9JfF3w\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-01-20.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-01-20.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you are a husband, married to a wife who makes you feel like nothing you do is good enough, you wind up doing what LeRoy Wagner did. You retreat\u2014you move into isolation \/ you just check out. LeRoy says, \u201cWhen you do that, you have to recognize you are part of the problem.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Pride is the issue. Even though I thought I was the victim\u2014I was the one that was being beat down; I was the one that could not do anything right; I was the one that was noble in not fighting back and noble in staying married\u2014as ridiculous as all that seems now, really it was an issue of pride.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, January 20. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey. I am Bob Lepine. We have some counsel today for husbands who may be fearful and may be married to fierce women. LeRoy and Kim Wagner join us today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. It is a difficult place for a couple to be in a marriage\u2014when one person\u2019s heart is beginning to turn \/ beginning to thaw. A couple that has been isolated for a period of time\u2014all of a sudden, one of them is beginning to\u2014God\u2019s doing a work in their heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>As you said, \u201cthaw\u201d; but they are bumping into an iceberg.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, that is right! When something is happening with you\u2014but your spouse is just not moving\u2014that can feel pretty hopeless.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And if you are looking for hope and help, you are listening to the right broadcast today. Maybe it is not for you\u2014maybe it is for a friend \/ a family member. I know, earlier this week, I got an email from my son about a friend of his whose marriage is struggling. I asked if we could pray for him and we have. Here is the thing\u2014marriages get dissolved way too easily today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey need people who are fighting on behalf of other peoples\u2019 marriages\u2014not just their own.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They need help. They need people who can intersect with their lives, and give them biblical counsel, and point them in the direction of what the Scriptures teach related to marriage and family\u2014teach them how to rely on God\u2019s grace and how to extend God\u2019s grace to one another in a marriage relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore you introduce our guests today, let me just remind our listeners\u2014this is the last chance I have to let you know about the special offer we are making to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week\u2014where, if you register to attend one of our upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways, you pay the regular price for yourself and your spouse comes free. That offer is good through this weekend. To take advantage of it, here is what you need to do\u2014go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Get the information about where and when a getaway is coming to a city\u2014you would either like to visit or a city near where you live\u2014register, online, for the getaway. When you register, you will qualify for the special rate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, you pay the regular rate for yourself and your spouse comes free. It is the best offer we make all year long, and it is good through this weekend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you have any questions, call 1-800-FL-TODAY; or look online at FamilyLifeToday.com and then join us at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. The first getaway comes up the weekend of February 10 and will continue throughout the spring into June. We would love to have you be a part of an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we are talking to a couple this week who thought their marriage was irreparable. They thought they had done so much damage that there was no way to fix what had happened. It looked like that for a while, but God had a different plan for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We have with us LeRoy and Kim Wagner, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. LeRoy\/Kim, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Thank you for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>LeRoy is a pastor and co-author of this book with Kimberly\u2014the name of the book, <em>Men Who Love Fierce Women<\/em>. Kim wrote a similar book about being a fierce woman. The lines have all converged and the story has now been written of how your fierceness, which had been used to virtually destroy your marriage, ends up being used, by God, to restore that marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In fact, the seeds of isolation for your marriage, as you have shared with us already, happened on your honeymoon, basically. That is where you began to establish patterns in your marriage that\u2014ultimately, five years in\u2014led you to a point where LeRoy, you said to your wife, \u201cI just don\u2019t love you anymore.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Correct\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You guys persevered. You knew what you were supposed to do; but you were in isolation for years until, as you described for us Kim, you had a week away in a cabin where you met with God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod did a work in your heart\u2014began to thaw the ice that was there. You came home\u2014you repented to your husband\u2014you called the kids together \/ you confessed and asked for forgiveness from them. I am sure you were thinking, in the midst of that: \u201cNow the turnaround can happen, because I\u2019ve met with the Lord. Now we can get on with having the marriage we\u2019ve always wanted to have.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>I was hopeful. I was actually afraid of what LeRoy might become once I made that confession, but it really\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What do you mean?\u2014afraid of what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>I think I was afraid that, suddenly, this nice guy\u2014that I\u2019ve demeaned and emasculated\u2014<em>now<\/em>, if I start actually living out what I should live, would he become like this dictatorial, oppressive husband?\u2014that I have never seen signs of that\u2014but I did not know what was going to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you relax, he might take the upper hand; and who knows where that will take you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>For two years\u2014LeRoy, you said, if you had an EKG hooked up to your heart, it would have been a flat line.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Pretty much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When was the first time you sensed a heartbeat back for this relationship?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy:<\/strong> As in any relationship, Dennis, it is not just one person that is at fault and needs to get right. God dealt with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>In a similar way, I was out, away by myself\u2014just me and the Lord. I was thinking, all of the time: \u201cWell, the Lord has done a work in Kim. I can see that.\u201d God began to deal with me. God began to show me that I was a <em>fearful<\/em> person from long before I met Kim. This was not Kim bringing havoc into our marriage, and destroying me and demeaning me \/ this was an issue that had been in my heart long before I met Kim. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the Lord was gracious in allowing \/ in calling us together. He placed us together to bring us each to the point where we had to die to the self that we did not even <em>know<\/em> was a part of us but keeping us from being all that God desired for us to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI began to walk through every Scripture that dealt with fear. A man cannot be the man that God desires for him to be and be a fearful man. God just worked my heart over, graciously, with His Word and said: \u201cHere is how <em>you<\/em> need to step up to the plate. You\u2018ve been afraid \/ you have had these excuses. You have \u2014you have coddled your fear\u2014your fear of failure, your fear of never getting it right, your fear of trying because you just knew you would fail. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cYou\u2019re going to need to die to self and die to that person that you feel like you are\u2014a fearful person\u2014before you can be the person that I\u2019ve saved you to be and that I desire for you to be, as a man and as a husband.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In your book, <em>Men Who Love Fierce Women<\/em>, you wrote that there were actually three things. Fear was one\u2014it may have been the dominant force in your life\u2014but there were two other things too\u2014ingratitude and pride.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Yes; Kim and I both believe that those were at the heart, probably, of all of our sinful tendencies. Regardless of whether you have this fearful man\/fierce woman syndrome in your marriage, of course, pride is the issue. Even though I thought I was the victim\u2014I was the one that was being beat down \/ I was the one that could not do anything right\u2014I poured out before her that I had been afraid to lead her. I had been <em>afraid<\/em> of her\u2014literally, intimidated by her. That was not <em>her<\/em> fault, even though she did not respond correctly. That was <em>my<\/em> sinfulness, my selfishness, my pride, and my ingratitude for whom God had given me, as this gracious gift of this woman.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Dennis, let me just say, \u201cI think we have found that this is <em>very<\/em> common among couples, even when they don\u2019t realize it.\u201d If you would have told me that I intimidated LeRoy\u2014in fact, I had a friend that did tell me that. She thought I was intimidating him, and I just laughed at that. I could not tell that what was going on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCouple after couple has told us, \u201cYou are telling our story.\u201d The man, if he would admit it\u2014he is intimidated by his wife \/ he feels demeaned. The wife does not realize she is doing that\u2014she just wants the man to lead, and he is afraid to lead! So she has stepped into that role of leader, and taken over, and is really incensed by the fact that her husband is not doing it. So, no; she is not respecting him, and she is putting him down all along the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We often talk about guys being passive. I do not know that I have ever stopped to think about that passivity being born out of fear, but that is what you are saying: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIf a guy is not in the game\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201che has to stop and ask, \u2018Am I just lazy, or am I afraid of what might happen if I do get in the game?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I had a businessman that I ended up introducing to Jesus Christ. I will never forget\u2014two or three years in the process of building into his life a little bit. He looked at me and said: \u201cDennis, I know how to lead several hundred people toward profits and return on investment and how to lead strategic planning for a corporation; but seat me at the dinner table with those four pairs of little beady eyes\u2014my kids looking at me and my wife\u2014I don\u2019t know what to do! Where do I start? How do I do it?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe very thing you are talking about\u2014I think most men do not know how. As a result, they are afraid. If the wife does not understand that, she can force him into the cave as, you mentioned earlier, you did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; she can become critical instead of becoming\u2014what you could have done is said, \u201cYou could have done this.\u201d You could have believed in him, you could have called it out of him, you could have helped him, and encouraged him and respected him. Again, you both have said: \u201cYou are not exclusively to blame,\u201d \u201cYou are not exclusively to blame,\u201d\u2014this was a two-way street. But there are things a wife can do to help a fearful husband gain courage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Right; for sure. That is how we are created\u2014that is Genesis 2:18\u2014we are created to help him become what God created him to be\u2014to be iron sharpening iron in his life\u2014to be an encourager \/ a true encourager. It was the flipside of what I was doing before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Kim, when the iceberg comes rolling into your life, two years after you have confessed, how did that hit you, literally?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Oh\u2014I again, it really took me to my face. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Tears are okay, Kim. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>[Emotion in voice] To think that this man of God\u2014that I had respected so much when we married, and saw God using him, and God\u2019s hand on him\u2014that he had been intimidated and afraid of me for years\u2014that was very hard for me to deal with. We began a process of learning how to relate to one another that was very different than what it had been before. New communication techniques had to be built into our relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you figure these things out on your own? Did you get a counselor to help you? Were there books? How did you get from \u201cOkay; we are at a new place \/ we want to chart a new course.\u201d [Laughter] This is not something where you just kind of realize it and, all of a sudden, everything is perfect now; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Not at all. I am so thankful that you have the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage conferences. I wish we could have gone to one of those at that time. [Laughter] I am thankful you have that tool in place for people, and they need to take advantage of that. I think God was merciful to us in that because we knew so much Scripture. I took Colossians, Chapter 3, personally as a template. We started adopting that as: \u201cThis is how we are going to function with one another\u2014in humility \/ in compassion\u2014having honest conversations but with humility,\u201d\u2014just applying the Scripture we already knew\u2014but not doing that as just a work of the will, but asking the Holy Spirit. The real dynamic that changed everything\u2014I feel like\u2014between us, was that process of him starting to initiate prayer daily.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me just read\u2014because you mentioned Colossians 3\u2014four verses here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If these four verses\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014or five.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014could be applied in every marriage\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>\u2014You all would be out of business. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we would be okay with that; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; we would.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Because our mission is: \u201cEvery home a godly home.\u201d If we can get there, we are happy to shut down; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Amen\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Colossians 3:12-15] \u201cPut on then, as God\u2019s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience; bearing with one another, if one has a complaint against the other, forgiving each other, as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these things, put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Now, it is really interesting, Bob\u2014if you kept on reading a couple of verses down, you would see that, after all of that, it addresses\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014husbands and wives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes! I mean, it is like that is the template for the home, right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Now, there might a wife, listening right now, who is saying, \u201cI want that come-to-Jesus moment. I want my husband to have that come-to-Jesus moment, but he is not there.\u201d I want to encourage them to pull up our YouTube video and consider watching that together. We encourage husbands and wives to do that, because LeRoy and I are talking together in that about what God did. Let it open up a conversation <em>between<\/em> you and your husband; and say, \u201cBabe, do you see me treating you in this way?\u2014what Kim is describing she did to her husband? I do not want to do that to you. Have I done that to you?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have a link, by the way, to your video on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Listeners can go there and watch the two of you talk through the process you went through here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to encourage husbands\u2014I just want to say a word to a husband, who is identifying with you, LeRoy, and they say, \u201cI can\u2019t do it.\u201d Here is what I want you to know\u2014the reason prayer is so important is because two imperfect people bow their necks. The neck is spoken of, in Scripture, as a sign of humility or pride. Being stiff-necked is being filled with pride against God, saying, \u201cI know better than you, God.\u201d On the other hand, when the head is bowed, the head is pliable\u2014the head is bowing before an authority that is far greater than him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I would say to the guy, who says: \u201cI don\u2019t know how to pray. I am not like LeRoy\u2014I haven\u2019t been trained to be able to teach the Bible.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI did not meet my wife in Greek class.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Exactly; exactly! Here is what I want to say: \u201cYou don\u2019t have to be! You can begin by telling God your address: \u2018This is Dennis. I live on Spillway Road. God, would You come and meet us at this point of pain? We don\u2019t know what to do.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have said many times on this broadcast, \u201cGod loves the prayer of a helpless parent.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He <em>has<\/em> to love the prayer of a helpless husband, wife, couple, who bow their wills before Almighty God, who take the Scriptures at their promise. Hebrews 11:6\u2014it says that faith believes that God is\u2014that He exists\u2014and He is the rewarder to those who seek Him. So, you bow your head. I think prayer, in its most simplistic form, is admitting there is a God who is hearing this. Otherwise, you are just babbling, talking to the wall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reality is\u2014there is a God; and since He exists, He does hear your prayer. He will take you where you are. He is not asking you to become the Pope. He is asking you to be who you are today. Yield your heart \/your life\u2014 in your marriage, for your marriage, for your family\u2014and take a step of faith today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWill you do that? I mean, can you do that? The answer is: \u201cYou can!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd to the wives, I would say\u2014and when your husband takes what you might consider to be a baby step\u2014<em>cheer him on<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Pat him on the hand, pat him on the back, hug his neck\u2014tell him how proud you are of him. Do not make too big a deal about it; but on the other hand, let him know: \u201cThat was great! Keep going. Keep going!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Let me add to that\u2014and it was so well said, Dennis\u2014that, also, God, not only desires for you to come to Him and He hears every cry of the broken heart\u2014you may be saying: \u201cYou don\u2019t know our marriage. You do not know how far we are gone. You had this going for you, we don\u2019t have that,\u201d\u2014whatever you say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to tell you\u2014God is also no respecter of persons\u2014the same Holy Spirit that lived within us lives within you, if you are a true believer. The same Word that we had\u2014to basically go back to and convict us\u2014<em>you<\/em> have that, as a believer. It does not matter whether I was a pastor \/ where you are\u2014God is the same God. What He did in our lives\u2014that we had <em>no way<\/em> of even believing at points that He could do it\u2014He did it! He desires to do a work in your life. I am <em>confident<\/em> of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have said, for many years, God\u2019s power works best in a graveyard, where people are dead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Amen!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He is going to raise them from the dead just as He raised Jesus Christ. The same Holy Spirit that raised Christ from the dead\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014lives in you! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Lives in you!\u2014right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He can resurrect a dead, lifeless marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>He can. We are a living testimony of that power; because, if you were able to spend time with us, at home now\u2014we love to hang out together \/ to laugh together. There is such unity, love, and completeness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>We would not have had any idea if we would have quit\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>\u2014before God did His work\u2014the future grace\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>\u2014that God had \/ the <em>blessings<\/em> that God had in store\u2014if we would have given up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>I cannot even convey adequately how good it is \/ how good our marriage is now. For the wife or the husband that is just in that black hole of misery, where we once were\u2014I want you to know God is <em>able<\/em>, and we are a <em>living<\/em> testimony to His power.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There is a wife out there, right now\u2014and I am saying this with a smile\u2014who says, \u201cI\u2019ve got one question for you, Kimberly, \u2018Will LeRoy really argue with you now?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>[Laughter] We discuss\u2014he does not\u2014he never gets angry or mad; no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I did not say that\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>But, yes\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014but willhe really engage\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>\u2014yes; he really does engage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014with a fierce wife?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> He does, and I am not that same fierce wife, though, too; but he does\u2014he does engage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think it is important to say\u2014your personalities are still the same. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There has been a sanctifying work run in both of your lives; but you are still a gentle, kind person; you are still a strong woman\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy:<\/strong> Intense.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Opinionated. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014right? So all of that\u2019s still in place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It is not that God took a fierce woman and made her passive and took a fearful man and made him into\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>\u2014Rambo!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right! You are still who you are, but the sanctifying work of the Spirit in our personalities can lead to harmony\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and can lead to grace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Marriage is a grace factory, where God does the work that He chooses to do in our lives. There is no other way that He can perform that same operation of grace than through the difficulty of marriage and the difficulty of two selfish sinners coming together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you might think is the end of your marriage\u2014and what I thought, at one time, was the end of my marriage \/ the end of my life\u2014it is the work that God desires to do\u2014to rescue, to redeem, to show how great and how glorious He is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to thank you both for bending your necks and for submitting to Jesus Christ. I will close with this\u2014this quote that I have given probably, in 24 years of broadcast, I have probably given at least a hundred times\u2014 it is by C.H. Spurgeon: \u201cIt was by perseverance the snail reached the Ark.\u201d [Laughter] Keep sliming your way to the finish line.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I am going\u2014I am going to go ahead and tweet right now: \u201cMarriage is a grace factory,\u201d\u2014that is a good one, right there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That is a good one too\u2014I will agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I will include a link for your book, which is called <em>Men Who Love Fierce Women<\/em>. It is a book that we have in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, to FamilyLifeToday.com to order\u2014either the book, <em>Fierce Women,<\/em> written by Kimberly Wagner, or <em>Men Who Love Fierce Women<\/em>, written by LeRoy and Kimberly together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong><\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have both books in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. So again, go online to FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order over the phone. 1-800-358-6329\u2014that is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd do not forget \u2014this is the last opportunity you will have to register for an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway\u2014pay the regular rate for yourself and your spouse comes free \/ the offer expires this weekend. Call us or go online\u2014website is FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. If you have any questions, you can probably get answers online or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. We will try to answer any questions you have. If you register this weekend\u2014you pay for yourself \/ your spouse goes free\u2014and the two of you can enjoy a fun, romantic getaway weekend\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway for couples. We hope to see you at one of our upcoming getaways this spring. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. And then join us back on Monday. Paul David Tripp is going to be with us. We are going to talk to him about his new book on parenting: \u201cWhat does it mean to be gospel-centered when it comes to raising the next generation?\u201d We will talk about that next week. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I am Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you have benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.33M"],"filesize_raw":["28655902"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304348.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304348.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and Kimberly Wagner share how her apology proved to be the turning point that led to reconciliation. Over time, the Wagners learned to appreciate their differences and to put love first.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-01-20.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you are a husband, married to a wife who makes you feel like nothing you do is good enough, you wind up doing what LeRoy Wagner did. You retreat\u2014you move into isolation \/ you just check out. LeRoy says, \u201cWhen you do that, you have to recognize you are part of the problem.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Pride is the issue. Even though I thought I was the victim\u2014I was the one that was being beat down; I was the one that could not do anything right; I was the one that was noble in not fighting back and noble in staying married\u2014as ridiculous as all that seems now, really it was an issue of pride.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, January 20. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey. I am Bob Lepine. We have some counsel today for husbands who may be fearful and may be married to fierce women. LeRoy and Kim Wagner join us today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. It is a difficult place for a couple to be in a marriage\u2014when one person\u2019s heart is beginning to turn \/ beginning to thaw. A couple that has been isolated for a period of time\u2014all of a sudden, one of them is beginning to\u2014God\u2019s doing a work in their heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>As you said, \u201cthaw\u201d; but they are bumping into an iceberg.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, that is right! When something is happening with you\u2014but your spouse is just not moving\u2014that can feel pretty hopeless.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And if you are looking for hope and help, you are listening to the right broadcast today. Maybe it is not for you\u2014maybe it is for a friend \/ a family member. I know, earlier this week, I got an email from my son about a friend of his whose marriage is struggling. I asked if we could pray for him and we have. Here is the thing\u2014marriages get dissolved way too easily today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey need people who are fighting on behalf of other peoples\u2019 marriages\u2014not just their own.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They need help. They need people who can intersect with their lives, and give them biblical counsel, and point them in the direction of what the Scriptures teach related to marriage and family\u2014teach them how to rely on God\u2019s grace and how to extend God\u2019s grace to one another in a marriage relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore you introduce our guests today, let me just remind our listeners\u2014this is the last chance I have to let you know about the special offer we are making to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week\u2014where, if you register to attend one of our upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways, you pay the regular price for yourself and your spouse comes free. That offer is good through this weekend. To take advantage of it, here is what you need to do\u2014go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Get the information about where and when a getaway is coming to a city\u2014you would either like to visit or a city near where you live\u2014register, online, for the getaway. When you register, you will qualify for the special rate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, you pay the regular rate for yourself and your spouse comes free. It is the best offer we make all year long, and it is good through this weekend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you have any questions, call 1-800-FL-TODAY; or look online at FamilyLifeToday.com and then join us at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. The first getaway comes up the weekend of February 10 and will continue throughout the spring into June. We would love to have you be a part of an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we are talking to a couple this week who thought their marriage was irreparable. They thought they had done so much damage that there was no way to fix what had happened. It looked like that for a while, but God had a different plan for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We have with us LeRoy and Kim Wagner, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. LeRoy\/Kim, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Thank you for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>LeRoy is a pastor and co-author of this book with Kimberly\u2014the name of the book, <em>Men Who Love Fierce Women<\/em>. Kim wrote a similar book about being a fierce woman. The lines have all converged and the story has now been written of how your fierceness, which had been used to virtually destroy your marriage, ends up being used, by God, to restore that marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In fact, the seeds of isolation for your marriage, as you have shared with us already, happened on your honeymoon, basically. That is where you began to establish patterns in your marriage that\u2014ultimately, five years in\u2014led you to a point where LeRoy, you said to your wife, \u201cI just don\u2019t love you anymore.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Correct\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You guys persevered. You knew what you were supposed to do; but you were in isolation for years until, as you described for us Kim, you had a week away in a cabin where you met with God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod did a work in your heart\u2014began to thaw the ice that was there. You came home\u2014you repented to your husband\u2014you called the kids together \/ you confessed and asked for forgiveness from them. I am sure you were thinking, in the midst of that: \u201cNow the turnaround can happen, because I\u2019ve met with the Lord. Now we can get on with having the marriage we\u2019ve always wanted to have.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>I was hopeful. I was actually afraid of what LeRoy might become once I made that confession, but it really\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What do you mean?\u2014afraid of what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>I think I was afraid that, suddenly, this nice guy\u2014that I\u2019ve demeaned and emasculated\u2014<em>now<\/em>, if I start actually living out what I should live, would he become like this dictatorial, oppressive husband?\u2014that I have never seen signs of that\u2014but I did not know what was going to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you relax, he might take the upper hand; and who knows where that will take you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>For two years\u2014LeRoy, you said, if you had an EKG hooked up to your heart, it would have been a flat line.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Pretty much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When was the first time you sensed a heartbeat back for this relationship?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy:<\/strong> As in any relationship, Dennis, it is not just one person that is at fault and needs to get right. God dealt with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>In a similar way, I was out, away by myself\u2014just me and the Lord. I was thinking, all of the time: \u201cWell, the Lord has done a work in Kim. I can see that.\u201d God began to deal with me. God began to show me that I was a <em>fearful<\/em> person from long before I met Kim. This was not Kim bringing havoc into our marriage, and destroying me and demeaning me \/ this was an issue that had been in my heart long before I met Kim. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the Lord was gracious in allowing \/ in calling us together. He placed us together to bring us each to the point where we had to die to the self that we did not even <em>know<\/em> was a part of us but keeping us from being all that God desired for us to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI began to walk through every Scripture that dealt with fear. A man cannot be the man that God desires for him to be and be a fearful man. God just worked my heart over, graciously, with His Word and said: \u201cHere is how <em>you<\/em> need to step up to the plate. You\u2018ve been afraid \/ you have had these excuses. You have \u2014you have coddled your fear\u2014your fear of failure, your fear of never getting it right, your fear of trying because you just knew you would fail. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cYou\u2019re going to need to die to self and die to that person that you feel like you are\u2014a fearful person\u2014before you can be the person that I\u2019ve saved you to be and that I desire for you to be, as a man and as a husband.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In your book, <em>Men Who Love Fierce Women<\/em>, you wrote that there were actually three things. Fear was one\u2014it may have been the dominant force in your life\u2014but there were two other things too\u2014ingratitude and pride.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Yes; Kim and I both believe that those were at the heart, probably, of all of our sinful tendencies. Regardless of whether you have this fearful man\/fierce woman syndrome in your marriage, of course, pride is the issue. Even though I thought I was the victim\u2014I was the one that was being beat down \/ I was the one that could not do anything right\u2014I poured out before her that I had been afraid to lead her. I had been <em>afraid<\/em> of her\u2014literally, intimidated by her. That was not <em>her<\/em> fault, even though she did not respond correctly. That was <em>my<\/em> sinfulness, my selfishness, my pride, and my ingratitude for whom God had given me, as this gracious gift of this woman.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Dennis, let me just say, \u201cI think we have found that this is <em>very<\/em> common among couples, even when they don\u2019t realize it.\u201d If you would have told me that I intimidated LeRoy\u2014in fact, I had a friend that did tell me that. She thought I was intimidating him, and I just laughed at that. I could not tell that what was going on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCouple after couple has told us, \u201cYou are telling our story.\u201d The man, if he would admit it\u2014he is intimidated by his wife \/ he feels demeaned. The wife does not realize she is doing that\u2014she just wants the man to lead, and he is afraid to lead! So she has stepped into that role of leader, and taken over, and is really incensed by the fact that her husband is not doing it. So, no; she is not respecting him, and she is putting him down all along the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We often talk about guys being passive. I do not know that I have ever stopped to think about that passivity being born out of fear, but that is what you are saying: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIf a guy is not in the game\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201che has to stop and ask, \u2018Am I just lazy, or am I afraid of what might happen if I do get in the game?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I had a businessman that I ended up introducing to Jesus Christ. I will never forget\u2014two or three years in the process of building into his life a little bit. He looked at me and said: \u201cDennis, I know how to lead several hundred people toward profits and return on investment and how to lead strategic planning for a corporation; but seat me at the dinner table with those four pairs of little beady eyes\u2014my kids looking at me and my wife\u2014I don\u2019t know what to do! Where do I start? How do I do it?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe very thing you are talking about\u2014I think most men do not know how. As a result, they are afraid. If the wife does not understand that, she can force him into the cave as, you mentioned earlier, you did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; she can become critical instead of becoming\u2014what you could have done is said, \u201cYou could have done this.\u201d You could have believed in him, you could have called it out of him, you could have helped him, and encouraged him and respected him. Again, you both have said: \u201cYou are not exclusively to blame,\u201d \u201cYou are not exclusively to blame,\u201d\u2014this was a two-way street. But there are things a wife can do to help a fearful husband gain courage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Right; for sure. That is how we are created\u2014that is Genesis 2:18\u2014we are created to help him become what God created him to be\u2014to be iron sharpening iron in his life\u2014to be an encourager \/ a true encourager. It was the flipside of what I was doing before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Kim, when the iceberg comes rolling into your life, two years after you have confessed, how did that hit you, literally?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Oh\u2014I again, it really took me to my face. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Tears are okay, Kim. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>[Emotion in voice] To think that this man of God\u2014that I had respected so much when we married, and saw God using him, and God\u2019s hand on him\u2014that he had been intimidated and afraid of me for years\u2014that was very hard for me to deal with. We began a process of learning how to relate to one another that was very different than what it had been before. New communication techniques had to be built into our relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you figure these things out on your own? Did you get a counselor to help you? Were there books? How did you get from \u201cOkay; we are at a new place \/ we want to chart a new course.\u201d [Laughter] This is not something where you just kind of realize it and, all of a sudden, everything is perfect now; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Not at all. I am so thankful that you have the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage conferences. I wish we could have gone to one of those at that time. [Laughter] I am thankful you have that tool in place for people, and they need to take advantage of that. I think God was merciful to us in that because we knew so much Scripture. I took Colossians, Chapter 3, personally as a template. We started adopting that as: \u201cThis is how we are going to function with one another\u2014in humility \/ in compassion\u2014having honest conversations but with humility,\u201d\u2014just applying the Scripture we already knew\u2014but not doing that as just a work of the will, but asking the Holy Spirit. The real dynamic that changed everything\u2014I feel like\u2014between us, was that process of him starting to initiate prayer daily.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me just read\u2014because you mentioned Colossians 3\u2014four verses here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If these four verses\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014or five.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014could be applied in every marriage\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>\u2014You all would be out of business. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we would be okay with that; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; we would.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Because our mission is: \u201cEvery home a godly home.\u201d If we can get there, we are happy to shut down; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Amen\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Colossians 3:12-15] \u201cPut on then, as God\u2019s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience; bearing with one another, if one has a complaint against the other, forgiving each other, as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these things, put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Now, it is really interesting, Bob\u2014if you kept on reading a couple of verses down, you would see that, after all of that, it addresses\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014husbands and wives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes! I mean, it is like that is the template for the home, right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Now, there might a wife, listening right now, who is saying, \u201cI want that come-to-Jesus moment. I want my husband to have that come-to-Jesus moment, but he is not there.\u201d I want to encourage them to pull up our YouTube video and consider watching that together. We encourage husbands and wives to do that, because LeRoy and I are talking together in that about what God did. Let it open up a conversation <em>between<\/em> you and your husband; and say, \u201cBabe, do you see me treating you in this way?\u2014what Kim is describing she did to her husband? I do not want to do that to you. Have I done that to you?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have a link, by the way, to your video on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Listeners can go there and watch the two of you talk through the process you went through here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to encourage husbands\u2014I just want to say a word to a husband, who is identifying with you, LeRoy, and they say, \u201cI can\u2019t do it.\u201d Here is what I want you to know\u2014the reason prayer is so important is because two imperfect people bow their necks. The neck is spoken of, in Scripture, as a sign of humility or pride. Being stiff-necked is being filled with pride against God, saying, \u201cI know better than you, God.\u201d On the other hand, when the head is bowed, the head is pliable\u2014the head is bowing before an authority that is far greater than him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I would say to the guy, who says: \u201cI don\u2019t know how to pray. I am not like LeRoy\u2014I haven\u2019t been trained to be able to teach the Bible.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI did not meet my wife in Greek class.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Exactly; exactly! Here is what I want to say: \u201cYou don\u2019t have to be! You can begin by telling God your address: \u2018This is Dennis. I live on Spillway Road. God, would You come and meet us at this point of pain? We don\u2019t know what to do.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have said many times on this broadcast, \u201cGod loves the prayer of a helpless parent.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He <em>has<\/em> to love the prayer of a helpless husband, wife, couple, who bow their wills before Almighty God, who take the Scriptures at their promise. Hebrews 11:6\u2014it says that faith believes that God is\u2014that He exists\u2014and He is the rewarder to those who seek Him. So, you bow your head. I think prayer, in its most simplistic form, is admitting there is a God who is hearing this. Otherwise, you are just babbling, talking to the wall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reality is\u2014there is a God; and since He exists, He does hear your prayer. He will take you where you are. He is not asking you to become the Pope. He is asking you to be who you are today. Yield your heart \/your life\u2014 in your marriage, for your marriage, for your family\u2014and take a step of faith today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWill you do that? I mean, can you do that? The answer is: \u201cYou can!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd to the wives, I would say\u2014and when your husband takes what you might consider to be a baby step\u2014<em>cheer him on<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Pat him on the hand, pat him on the back, hug his neck\u2014tell him how proud you are of him. Do not make too big a deal about it; but on the other hand, let him know: \u201cThat was great! Keep going. Keep going!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Let me add to that\u2014and it was so well said, Dennis\u2014that, also, God, not only desires for you to come to Him and He hears every cry of the broken heart\u2014you may be saying: \u201cYou don\u2019t know our marriage. You do not know how far we are gone. You had this going for you, we don\u2019t have that,\u201d\u2014whatever you say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to tell you\u2014God is also no respecter of persons\u2014the same Holy Spirit that lived within us lives within you, if you are a true believer. The same Word that we had\u2014to basically go back to and convict us\u2014<em>you<\/em> have that, as a believer. It does not matter whether I was a pastor \/ where you are\u2014God is the same God. What He did in our lives\u2014that we had <em>no way<\/em> of even believing at points that He could do it\u2014He did it! He desires to do a work in your life. I am <em>confident<\/em> of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have said, for many years, God\u2019s power works best in a graveyard, where people are dead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Amen!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He is going to raise them from the dead just as He raised Jesus Christ. The same Holy Spirit that raised Christ from the dead\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014lives in you! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Lives in you!\u2014right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He can resurrect a dead, lifeless marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>He can. We are a living testimony of that power; because, if you were able to spend time with us, at home now\u2014we love to hang out together \/ to laugh together. There is such unity, love, and completeness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>We would not have had any idea if we would have quit\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>\u2014before God did His work\u2014the future grace\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>\u2014that God had \/ the <em>blessings<\/em> that God had in store\u2014if we would have given up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>I cannot even convey adequately how good it is \/ how good our marriage is now. For the wife or the husband that is just in that black hole of misery, where we once were\u2014I want you to know God is <em>able<\/em>, and we are a <em>living<\/em> testimony to His power.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There is a wife out there, right now\u2014and I am saying this with a smile\u2014who says, \u201cI\u2019ve got one question for you, Kimberly, \u2018Will LeRoy really argue with you now?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>[Laughter] We discuss\u2014he does not\u2014he never gets angry or mad; no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I did not say that\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>But, yes\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014but willhe really engage\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>\u2014yes; he really does engage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014with a fierce wife?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> He does, and I am not that same fierce wife, though, too; but he does\u2014he does engage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think it is important to say\u2014your personalities are still the same. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There has been a sanctifying work run in both of your lives; but you are still a gentle, kind person; you are still a strong woman\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy:<\/strong> Intense.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Opinionated. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014right? So all of that\u2019s still in place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It is not that God took a fierce woman and made her passive and took a fearful man and made him into\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim: <\/strong>\u2014Rambo!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right! You are still who you are, but the sanctifying work of the Spirit in our personalities can lead to harmony\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and can lead to grace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>LeRoy: <\/strong>Marriage is a grace factory, where God does the work that He chooses to do in our lives. There is no other way that He can perform that same operation of grace than through the difficulty of marriage and the difficulty of two selfish sinners coming together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you might think is the end of your marriage\u2014and what I thought, at one time, was the end of my marriage \/ the end of my life\u2014it is the work that God desires to do\u2014to rescue, to redeem, to show how great and how glorious He is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to thank you both for bending your necks and for submitting to Jesus Christ. I will close with this\u2014this quote that I have given probably, in 24 years of broadcast, I have probably given at least a hundred times\u2014 it is by C.H. Spurgeon: \u201cIt was by perseverance the snail reached the Ark.\u201d [Laughter] Keep sliming your way to the finish line.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I am going\u2014I am going to go ahead and tweet right now: \u201cMarriage is a grace factory,\u201d\u2014that is a good one, right there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That is a good one too\u2014I will agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I will include a link for your book, which is called <em>Men Who Love Fierce Women<\/em>. It is a book that we have in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, to FamilyLifeToday.com to order\u2014either the book, <em>Fierce Women,<\/em> written by Kimberly Wagner, or <em>Men Who Love Fierce Women<\/em>, written by LeRoy and Kimberly together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong><\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have both books in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. So again, go online to FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order over the phone. 1-800-358-6329\u2014that is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd do not forget \u2014this is the last opportunity you will have to register for an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway\u2014pay the regular rate for yourself and your spouse comes free \/ the offer expires this weekend. Call us or go online\u2014website is FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. If you have any questions, you can probably get answers online or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. We will try to answer any questions you have. If you register this weekend\u2014you pay for yourself \/ your spouse goes free\u2014and the two of you can enjoy a fun, romantic getaway weekend\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway for couples. We hope to see you at one of our upcoming getaways this spring. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. And then join us back on Monday. Paul David Tripp is going to be with us. We are going to talk to him about his new book on parenting: \u201cWhat does it mean to be gospel-centered when it comes to raising the next generation?\u201d We will talk about that next week. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I am Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you have benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. 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