{"id":304342,"date":"2017-01-17T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-01-17T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/how-marriages-get-better\/"},"modified":"2017-01-17T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-01-17T17:00:00","slug":"how-marriages-get-better","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-marriages-get-better\/","title":{"rendered":"How Marriages Get Better"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>John McGee and his wife, Pam, talk about the characteristics of couples with healthy marriages. One clear indicator is when each spouse works on themselves first.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-01-17.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"27.78M","filesize_raw":"29128893","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2082,2810],"tags":[6179,5754,5750,6180],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9441],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304342","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-communication","category-growing-spiritually","tag-healthy-marriage","tag-healthy-relationships","tag-marriage-counseling","tag-strained-marriage","cwp_profile-john-and-pam-mcgee","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304342\/how-marriages-get-better","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304342\/how-marriages-get-better","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"jOrGVzEI67\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-marriages-get-better\/\">How Marriages Get Better<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-marriages-get-better\/embed\/#?secret=jOrGVzEI67\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;How Marriages Get Better&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"jOrGVzEI67\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"John McGee and his wife, Pam, talk about the characteristics of couples with healthy marriages. One clear indicator is when each spouse works on themselves first.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-01-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Working with married couples at a large church in Dallas, Texas, John McGee has had the opportunity to hear a lot of marriage come-back stories. In fact, he\u2019s encouraged couples to share their stories with other couples. Along the way, he says, he\u2019s made an interesting observation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>One of the things that happens most nights is a couple will share their story. They\u2019ll just recount either how they moved from a bad place to a good place\u2014some people who literally had divorce papers in hand and now are doing great\u2014so they share that story to give hope. As I sat there, year after year after year, these stories became kind of like <em>Groundhog Day<\/em>\u2014they just <em>all<\/em> sounded the same. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I just\u2014you know, Pam and I would sit in the front row there. I was just trying to make notes and trying to understand: \u201cWhat are the common patterns?\u201d\u00a0 Turns out, even though the details were <em>radically<\/em> different in all these couples\u2019 lives and couples\u2019 stories, there were some really common characteristics\u2014 that they showed up all the time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, January 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey. I'm Bob Lepine. So, what are some common characteristics of marriages that make it out of tough waters?\u00a0 We\u2019ll hear from John and Pam McGee about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How are you feeling, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, why do you ask?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, we\u2019re going to talk about getting well. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m doing okay. I think the kind of wellness we\u2019re going to talk about is maybe a different kind of wellness than you had in mind when you asked how I\u2019m feeling; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s correct. In fact, we have a pair of friends with us who join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. John and Pam McGee, welcome to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Thanks, Dennis\u2014really fun to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Pam: <\/strong>Yes; glad to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We let them in from across the border in Texas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They live in the Dallas\/Fort Worth area and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014canoed across the Red River.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014didn\u2019t even have to check their passports to get into Arkansas. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJohn and Pam have been married since 1995. They have four children. John is the Director of Marriage Ministry and Re-Engage at Watermark Community Church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Great church in the Dallas\/Fort Worth area. In fact, any time I have spoken in the Dallas area, at one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways, I run into a lot of\u2014I don\u2019t know if you call them Watermarkers\u2014but I run into a lot of people who attend Watermark who come out for our getaways, because you guys do a great job of making sure your people understand that marriage needs to be a priority and investing in your marriage is <em>smart<\/em> for every married couple.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me just interrupt here long enough to make sure our listeners know about the special offer that we\u2019re making this week for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway\u2014and we\u2019re going to be hosting about 85, 86, 80 \/ I don\u2019t know the exact number\u2014in cities all across the country this spring. If you\u2019d like to attend one of the getaways in a city near where you live\u2014you register today\u2014you pay the regular rate for yourself and your spouse comes free. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s the best offer we make all year, and it\u2019s good this week only. So if you want to take advantage of saving a little money and sign up now for what will be a fun, romantic getaway weekend for you and your spouse later on this spring, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Get more information about when one of these weekends is coming to a city you\u2019d like to visit, or a city near where you live, and then register online or call to register. Again, if you pay the regular rate for yourself, right now, your spouse comes free. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat offer is good through this weekend. Give us a call or go online and plan to join us at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Explain to our listeners a little bit, John, what Re-Engage is all about; because you\u2019ve worked with literally thousands of couples. You\u2019ve observed characteristics among couples\u2014who are healthy or who maybe are unhealthy and get well\u2014that have made a difference in their lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Right. So, you know, I think just about anything you give yourself to in life, there are patterns that you can recognize. For example, I met a stockbroker, one time, who traded on the floor. He said, \u201cA couple times a day things will line up; and I just <em>know<\/em> I\u2019m going to make a <em>lot<\/em> of money, and that\u2019s where I lean in.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRe-Engage is a ministry we have at Watermark\u2014other churches do with us as well. One of the things that happens most nights is a couple will share their story. They\u2019ll just recount either how they moved from a bad place to a good place\u2014some people who literally had divorce papers in hand and now are doing great\u2014so they share that story to give hope. It\u2019s kind of an indirect teaching method. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I sat there, year after year after year, these stories became kind of like <em>Groundhog Day<\/em>\u2014they just <em>all<\/em> sounded the same. Turns out, even though the details were <em>radically<\/em> different in all these couples\u2019 lives and couples\u2019 stories, there were some really common characteristics\u2014that they showed up all the time. For example, one of those\u2014I think in every story, somewhere in there, someone decides to work on themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, you know, we\u2019ll just give it the one word, \u201ccircle.\u201d We say: \u201cIf you want to have a great marriage, or if you want to change your marriage \/ you want to restore your marriage, the place to start is to draw a circle around yourself and change everybody inside the circle. Just give yourself <em>fully<\/em> to working on yourself, irrespective of what anyone else does\u2014whatever your spouse does or doesn\u2019t do \/ reciprocates or not\u2014it is just give yourself fully to working on yourself\u2014whatever that looks like.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So the circle\u2019s just you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Just you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The focus is then on, \u201cWhat do I need to be?\u201d and \u201cWhat do I need to do in a marriage?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPam, if somebody\u2019s drawing a circle around themselves, they go: \u201cOkay, I\u2019m here. Now what do I do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Pam: <\/strong>Yes; and Jesus spoke to this in Matthew 7, directly\u2014you know, He said, \u201cWhy do you look at the speck in your brother\u2019s eye when you have a log in your own eye?\u201d We [Pam and John] just think we all have these logs that we really have a hard time seeing. We can very easily point out the little specks in our spouse\u2019s, in our friends\u2019, in our kids\u2019 eyes, but we forget about these logs.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we draw that circle and just look at whether it\u2019s a sin issue, an annoying habit, just some expectations that you\u2019re frustrated about that were unspoken\u2014anything in my life that I can say, \u201cI\u2019m going to remove this log,\u201d\u2014then it gives the other person permission to look at the speck if you humbly say, \u201cI\u2019m going to work on my own part first.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s important\u2014what you just said\u2014because a lot of people would say: \u201cOkay; I drew the circle around myself, and as objectively as possible. Yes; I know I do some little things\u2014I can nag sometimes and I overspend in our budget, but my spouse\u2014I mean, I have a long list. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cAnd I\u2019m trying to be objective here; but my stuff\u2019s little \/ his stuff is big.\u201d You would say, even in that situation\u2014even if it\u2019s out of balance\u2014until you are really working hard on the stuff in your circle, don\u2019t step outside and try to address the rest. Is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Absolutely. It is so difficult, Bob, when you\u2019ve been wounded\u2014when you\u2019ve been shorted when they\u2019ve been unkind. You\u2019re so attuned to that, and\u2014I mean, I think that\u2019s part of what Jesus was saying. You want to focus in on those little specks\u2014they could be much bigger than specks\u2014but it is the only thing you can control. It is the only thing you can control, is yourself. When couples were relaying their stories\u2014maybe there was an affair \/ maybe there was something <em>horrendous<\/em>\u2014always part of their story is, \u201cEven though he or she did what they did, I began to see I played a part; and I worked on myself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe think about our friend, Jennifer, who is a great, <em>great<\/em> friend of ours. To say their marriage was a disaster would be the understatement of the century. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe had been in the war and had some PTSD. He had deployed affairs, and\u2014you name it. He deploys to Japan and tells her: \u201cDo not come. I don\u2019t want to be married to you. I don\u2019t want to raise our kids\u2026\u201d I\u2019m sure there were others in Jennifer\u2019s life that said: \u201cDon\u2019t go. Given who he is and what he\u2019s done, do not go.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe went, and she wasn\u2019t in any kind of physical danger. But she worked on herself. She surrounded herself with some friends, and she began to see that she had some control issues \/ she had some fear\u2014and that was just exacerbating that. She didn\u2019t try to fix him \/ she didn\u2019t try to change him; she just changed and worked on herself <em>ruthlessly<\/em>\u2014<em>ruthlessly<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is what really softened her husband\u2019s heart. There wasn\u2019t any kind of manipulative trick she pulled. He was watching her and he said, \u201cAll I can do now is reciprocate.\u201d All the words, all the strategies, all the manipulation she tried before that never worked and never did what just working on herself could do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You mentioned something I want to double underline. You ran past if really fast\u2014you said she surrounded herself in that circle with good friends \/ good counsel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Yes; good counsel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to tell you something\u2014a good friend in the midst of a deep, profound marriage conflict can make a big difference; or they can point that person toward tossing in the towel and heading toward the divorce court.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you\u2019re talking about a good friend, who\u2019s not just a sympathetic enabler. You\u2019re talking about a good friend, who will speak truth to you\u2014kindly, with compassion\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s the point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014somebody who will say, \u201cI\u2019m here to help you get better,\u201d not just somebody who says, \u201cOh, you poor, poor thing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In fact, in my iPhone<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> I have a message from a young couple in another city, who are heading toward divorce. I am proud of one of our children and their spouse\u2014they\u2019re headed into a meeting with them\u2014not to smash, or bash, or blame\u2014but just to get in there and speak truth and try to pull them out of the ditch.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have to tell you\u2014I think we\u2019re probably speaking to two groups of people\u2014one who need to draw the circle and get out their log inspection and remove the logs from their eyes; but secondly, to a group of people who are speaking into the lives of those who are in trouble, who need to take courage and take heart and don\u2019t be guilty of saying nothing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You may be rescuing generations of broken families and divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Pam: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Yes; always\u2014which is interesting\u2014that\u2019s another one of those characteristics, Dennis\u2014is they surround themselves with people who will tell them the truth and be gracious or\u2014you know, 1 Thessalonians 5:14 says we\u2019re to \u201cadmonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, and be patient with all men.\u201d So there are some times we need some admonishment; there are some times we need some help; there are some times we just need some encouragement; but in all ways, we need\u2014we always need people who will be patient with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlways in those stories, as we heard those stories, somewhere in there they say, \u201cI surrounded myself with some people who love me enough to tell me the truth.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey weren\u2019t just the sympathetic ears\u2014that Bob was talking about that just say: \u201cI\u2019m so sorry. I want you to be happy,\u201d\u2014it was: \u201cWhat does God\u2019s Word say? I know what you feel, and I know it\u2019s hard; but I\u2019m going to call you back to truth. And I\u2019m going to help you. I\u2019m not going anywhere.\u201d Oftentimes, all it takes is <em>one<\/em> person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo the person, who\u2019s sitting out there and saying, \u201cShould I lean in to your point?\u201d \u201cYes!\u2014because it\u2019s amazing what one person\u2014who will encourage you to stick in there, and to fight it out, and give you hope\u2014will do. Don\u2019t ever underestimate that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut people change, I think, in the context of community, just in a different way than just listening to sermons or listening to messages. I think, even in my own life\u2014I will tell you that pride is one of my besetting sins. In our small group, now\u2014it\u2019s been years ago and it still shows up, ongoing\u2014but there was a group of men that just said: \u201cListen, John. We think you don\u2019t see your own pride. We love you. We\u2019re not going anywhere. We\u2019re not mad at you; but we want to admonish you, and we want to help you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe want to point it out \/ we want to pray with you.\u201d It wasn\u2019t one conversation\u2014it was <em>many<\/em>. They had to be patient with me; but it has made <em>all<\/em> the difference in my marriage, in my parenting, in my relationships, in my leadership. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat happened in a way that I couldn\u2019t get from just listening to a sermon on pride\u2014it had to happen in the context of community. As we talk about these couples that get well, that\u2019s always one of the things that shows up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Pam: <\/strong>Yes; it just makes me think about a good friend as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJohn talks about that big sin struggle of his\u2014of pride and just little things as well\u2014just people that know you well and that are the true friends, that don\u2019t just want to tickle your ear, but want to love you enough to help you look more like Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo just a girl that we are in small group with\u2014one of the couples\u2014I remember specifically, maybe two football seasons ago \/ two falls ago, John was traveling, which was <em>not<\/em> normal. What was normal was for him to be home\u2014to be at every game and to coach every one of our kids\u2014that was the norm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut for some reason he was gone for quite a few football games. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember kind of getting spun up about that and being frustrated with him, and sharing that with her. She just stopped me, lovingly but firmly, and admonished me like that verse says\u2014and just said: \u201cWait, Pam. Does this characterize John? This is not normal. And remember, this is his job. He has to work. This is what he does.\u201d She just lovingly reminded me of the truth\u2014kind of pointed out, \u201cThis is not who you want to be,\u201d and just helped me be better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>You know, if you want to combine those two ideas of the circle and community\u2014just a really courageous question to ask your friends is: \u201cHow am I undermining my marriage? Don\u2019t tell me about my spouse. You tell me what you see. I\u2019m not going to fight you on it. I\u2019ll tie my hands behind my back. You tell me\u2014if I was going to be a better husband,\u201d\u2014in Pam\u2019s case, a better wife\u2014\u201cwhat could I do?\u201d or \u201cWhat do I do in subverting that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What you\u2019re illustrating here\u2014a couple of key things I just want to also highlight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber one, the wounds of a friend \/ a true friend bring healing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think the Bible says that; doesn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It does say that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Pam: <\/strong>Sure; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The Proverbs say that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second thing I want to underline is really talking about a functioning church\u2014a local community of believers. And you said it, John\u2014you\u2019re doing life together. There\u2019s no pulling the wool over other people\u2019s eyes\u2014you\u2019re transparent, but there is the safety\u2014that\u2019s the key word I want to use here. There\u2019s the safety of a true relationship\u2014where you\u2019re not going to be punished \/ you\u2019re not going to get beat up, shamed, or blamed\u2014but somebody\u2019s just going to step in, after you\u2019ve vented, and say: \u201cLet me just remind you, Pam, of the truth about your husband. He does head up the marriage ministry of the church; but he\u2019s human, and you need to give him some grace in this season.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Pam: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So you heard it. As a result, you got out of your stew and continued on with life. All of us need those kinds of people in our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have a phrase we use at our church\u2014that we borrowed from Paul David Tripp\u2014that you\u2019re going to love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said that the kinds of relationships we need to do life well is: \u201cWe need grace-based, Christ-centered, intentionally-intrusive, redemptive relationships.\u201d Some people hear intentionally-intrusive; and they kind of go, \u201cWait, wait, wait\u2014what am I signing up for here?\u201d But surrounding that\u2014grace-based, Christ-centered, redemptive\u2014if your marriage is wobbly, and you have people like that around you, they\u2019ll help you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf your marriage is wobbly and what you have around\u2014I\u2019m thinking of a friend of mine who quit her job because the place she was working, all the women there were just griping about their husbands every day. You really do have to be wise about whom you put in community around you. When things are going to get wobbly, is it going to be people who are going to be grace-based, Christ-centered, intentionally-intrusive, and redemptive in their relationship with you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know why; but I think even in the Christian community, especially, we just mistake love as encouragement\u2014you know, just being for someone \/ putting your arm around them. Oftentimes, the most loving thing we can do is tell somebody the truth. The most loving thing we could do for a relationship is put ourselves in a position where people will tell us the truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPam knows \/ our kids know\u2014it\u2019s the same deal with our kids\u2014that if Dad is stubborn and Pam has tried to tell me the truth, and I\u2019m not having it, and she\u2019s pretty sure that I\u2019m still wrong\u2014and she\u2019s prayed and she feels like she\u2019s clean before the Lord\u2014then she calls the men in our lives and just says: \u201cI love John. I don\u2019t think he\u2019s at his best right now. I know you love John. Can you help me?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Whoa!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>And we\u2019ve told\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Have you ever done that, Pam?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Pam: <\/strong>One time, years ago, I think I felt like I wasn\u2019t being heard. I don\u2019t think he was being mean, or unkind, or stubborn\u2014maybe a little stubborn\u2014it may have been more about me; but I just said, \u201cHey, let me get another set of ears.\u201d I asked his permission, because we kind of have that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but I said: \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to call the guys and just say, \u2018This is my perspective. It could be more me, but it feels like John doesn\u2019t understand my side\/my perspective.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now wait. If my wife came to me and said, \u201cIs it okay\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s what I was thinking!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cIs it okay if I call the guys?\u201d That would kind of be: \u201cWait, wait, wait!\u201d\u2014okay? \u201cTime-out!\u201d I\u2019m now open to\u2014\u201cBefore you call the guys,\u2026\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDid you just say, \u201cYes; fine\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>It wasn\u2019t: \u201cHey; I\u2019m going to haul you off to the principal\u2019s office and shame you\u201d; right? It was: \u201cYou made this deal. You said you wanted to be the best husband you could be, and I want to help you.\u201d She didn\u2019t say: \u201cI\u2019m positive that I\u2019m right and you\u2019re wrong. We\u2019re going to get these guys to kind of beat you up.\u201d She said: \u201cI could be wrong, but I love you enough to tell you the truth. Let\u2019s just have this conversation.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There\u2019s one other subject that I have to have you hit, because I think it is <em>rare<\/em> today in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really mean that, in the truest sense\u2014I think covenant-keeping commitment is increasingly <em>rare<\/em> in marriage. It\u2019s why so many don\u2019t get married\u2014and don\u2019t establish a covenant to begin with\u2014and just live together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other is that they make some kind of quasi-commitment, but they\u2019re really not all in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re just talking about having a state of mind \/ a frame of mind, from the beginning, that says: \u201cThis is for life\u2014for good\u2014for keeps\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cI\u2019m committed.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Comment on what you\u2019ve seen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Yes; absolutely. That would be another one those, Dennis\u2014one of those things that just always shows up in the story. Generally, what happens is\u2014they say, \u201cI was contemplating divorce,\u201d or \u201cI wasn\u2019t all in,\u201d and \u201cI just decided, \u2018\u2026till the end.\u2019 I said, \u2018Till death do us part.\u2019 I said, \u2018Better or worse, in sickness and health.\u2019 I am in; and now, I\u2019m going to live like it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had some friends\u2014you know\u2014an affair on her side and just all kinds of crazy. They were taking two different planes, from the same city, back home. He just looked at her and said: \u201cI need to know, when we land in Dallas, if you\u2019re in. We\u2019ll figure it out \/ we can work through anything, but I have to have an assurance that you\u2019re in till the end.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey landed; and boy, was there stuff to work through. Did it take a long time?\u2014absolutely\u2014but everything changed when both of them said, \u201cWe\u2019re in till death do us part.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, a great metaphor for that is to think about yourself in a room with lots of doors that are open\u2014you have the door of an affair \/ you have the door of just workaholism\u2014\u201cI\u2019m still going to be married, but I\u2019m going to give myself to other\u2026\u201d; you know\u2014there are all kinds of things like that. Something kind of supernatural really does happen when you say: \u201cI\u2019m going to lock all those doors \/ all those possibilities of not finishing this with you. I\u2019m going to throw away the key, and we will work this out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know\u2014your only option is to kind of kill each other in that room or work it out. We see it over and over again\u2014just that commitment becomes this multiplier in a marriage. All of a sudden, a couple\u2019s able to really begin to invest in their marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s kind of like\u2014the cheapest homes, generally, on any market are those that have gone to foreclosure; because they\u2019re in really, really bad shape. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat happens is\u2014a year before that, a couple decided, \u201cI\u2019m not sure we\u2019re going to keep this house.\u201d So they lived in it that way. Then, when they left, they go: \u201cYou know what? I\u2019ve never liked this house anyway. It\u2019s always been a bad house. It\u2019s always had a leaking roof.\u201d That\u2019s not really true\u2014they just decided\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014not to invest in it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>\u2014years ago; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo commitment\u2014there\u2019s two parts of that. One of it is that: \u201cI\u2019m not going to leave. I\u2019m not going to give myself to anything else.\u201d That\u2019s one side of the coin. The other side of the coin is: \u201cI am going to invest, because I\u2019m going to live here in this house for the next 50 years, I\u2019m going to fix a leaky roof \/ leaky faucet. We\u2019re going to pull weeds,\u201d\u2014all those kinds of things\u2014and \u201cI\u2019m going to end up\u201d\u2014crazy thing\u2014\u201cI\u2019m going to end up liking this house. As I invest in it, I will like it even more, which will kind of further my investment and my commitment to it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Pam: <\/strong>Yes; and I think that\u2019s what\u2019s shown\u2014in 21 years of marriage\u2014as I think about that for us, there\u2019s never been a time that we\u2019ve uttered the word or considered divorce. But there have been seasons where I know that each of us have kind of been living a little bit un-divorced. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re not leaving, but I\u2019m not <em>fully<\/em> committed \/ I\u2019m not giving my 100 percent. I\u2019m getting lazy, looking to my own interests instead of my partner\u2019s interest, and just thinking, \u201cEven in that moment, I\u2019m committed to be very intentional and to put my 100 percent into this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s my experience\u2014looking at marriages over the past 40 years\u2014that most marriages go through, not just a season, but multiple seasons that are dark days.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Pam: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have to tell you\u2014when you open the door as a possibility and you utter the word\u2014the \u201cd\u201d word\u2014it truly does become an increased possibility. I think what you\u2019re exhorting people to do, John, is really, really wise in terms of locking the doors\u2014shut them out \/ there are no exits: \u201cWe\u2019re not bailing. We\u2019re sticking with this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA second thing I just want to say here\u2014if you want a great way to invest in your marriage, we\u2019re going to have 85 <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways this year, all over the country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a weekend getaway\u2014Friday night, Saturday, Sunday\u2014and it\u2019s a great way to pull out of the mainstream of life \/ the busyness and park your marriage under some great\u2014fun \/ entertaining\u2014but great teaching from the Scriptures, and then go through projects that help you apply it, privately, in your own marriage\u2014so that you experience what you\u2019ve learned, right on the spot. You leave the conference with help and with hope. I think people are looking for that, who want to get well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, as I mentioned earlier, right now, there\u2019s a great opportunity for folks to attend one of the getaways and save some money; because when you pay the regular rate for yourself, your spouse comes free. That offer is good this week for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou have to go to our website and register\u2014or call to register\u2014in order to take advantage of this special offer. It\u2019s good through this weekend. If you\u2019d like to join us at an upcoming getaway\u2014and we\u2019re going to be hosting them in cities all across the country this spring\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com \/ get more information. Call us if you have any questions\u20141-800-FL-TODAY\u2014and then plan to join us at an upcoming getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m going to be speaking in Branson this spring\u2014looking forward to being there the first weekend in April. But if you live in Florida, or Washington State\u2014live in the northeast or the southwest\u2014wherever you live, there\u2019s a getaway near you. If it\u2019s been awhile since you\u2019ve done something to strengthen and build your marriage, now\u2019s the time to join us at a FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. Again, go, online, to register at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word\u00a0 \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we have a couple who are going to be joining us. She describes herself as a fierce woman \/ that\u2019s her word, not mine\u2014her name is Kim Wagner. She and her husband LeRoy are going to be here tomorrow. LeRoy\u2019s going to talk about what you do if you\u2019re a husband married to a fierce woman. So I hope you can tune in for our conversation with the Wagners tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304342","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304342"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304342"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304342"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304342"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304342"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304342"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304342"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}