{"id":304244,"date":"2016-11-09T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2016-11-09T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/listening-to-understand\/"},"modified":"2016-11-09T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2016-11-09T17:00:00","slug":"listening-to-understand","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/listening-to-understand\/","title":{"rendered":"Listening to Understand"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Scott Sauls | Series: Jesus Outside the Lines | Pastor Scott Sauls calls people to behave as followers of Christ, especially when we differ. Sauls shares timely advice about humbly engaging with those who don&#8217;t hold our views. Only then can we seek to understand the other person&#8217;s position.Show Notes &#038; ResourcesDownload the first chapter of &#8216;Jesus Outside the Lines&#8217; from ScottSauls.com<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Pastor Scott Sauls calls people to behave as followers of Christ, especially when we differ.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-11-09.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"28.09M","filesize_raw":"29458167","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2821],"tags":[6110,6109,6111],"podcast_series":[8173],"cwp_profile":[3442],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304244","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-reaching-out","tag-political-views","tag-religious-views","tag-seek-understanding","podcast_series-jesus-outside-the-lines","cwp_profile-scott-sauls","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304244\/listening-to-understand","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304244\/listening-to-understand","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"La23TotFn3\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/listening-to-understand\/\">Listening to Understand<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/listening-to-understand\/embed\/#?secret=La23TotFn3\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Listening to Understand&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"La23TotFn3\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Pastor Scott Sauls calls people to behave as followers of Christ, especially when we differ.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-11-09.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s important on a day like today\u2014and for that matter, on any day\u2014for us to remember that we are, first of all, citizens of the kingdom of heaven and representatives of Jesus Christ. Scott Sauls says we ought to keep that in mind as we have conversations with others today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Who do we get contentious with? Who should we be willing to offend? I think in some ways\u2014in sort of modern contemporary Christian America\u2014it seems that in many instances, the Pharisees might actually be really attracted to the way we do our ministries; and the tax collectors and the prostitutes and sinners might feel completely bruised by it. Wherever that is the case, we need to take a serious look at the way we\u2019re doing things; because\u2014if the kinds of people who were upset with Jesus are happy with us, and the kinds of people who are happy with Jesus are upset with us\u2014we\u2019re probably more pharisaical than gospel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, November 9<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. What matters more than who won yesterday\u2019s election is how you and I represent the King who is eternal in His reign. We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. It occurs to me that there are some of our listeners today who are happy with the outcome of yesterday\u2019s election\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and some who aren\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and probably some who weren\u2019t going to be happy no matter how this turned out today. Ultimately, our sense of happiness, or joy, or contentment, or peace\u2014all of that is not wrapped up in what happened yesterday.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; and I\u2019ve now been through a number of election cycles. The conclusion that I\u2019m coming to, increasingly, is\u2014God wants to remind us of where our hope is. He just wants to have a heart check, to go: \u201cAre you placing your hope in who\u2019s in the White House, and who controls the House, or who is in charge at the Supreme Court? Where is your hope?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know this\u2014the Bible teaches that God is in charge, and He knows what He\u2019s doing. I think He\u2019s always trying to teach us something, whether our candidate won or lost \/ whether we\u2019re at odds with other people who believe differently than we did. We\u2019re called to represent the King of kings and be citizens of heaven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and it\u2019s not that you\u2019re suggesting that days like yesterday don\u2019t matter or that we shouldn\u2019t be engaged or involved. These are important discussions that we have and important issues that are being addressed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And ones that we need to be training our children in knowing how to think. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur children need to be trained to think, biblically, and to vote.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The sad thing is that there have been Christians who have been on opposite sides of issues over the last several months. There have been relationships that have been lost because of political discourse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right, and I\u2019m glad you\u2019re finally admitting that you are\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That I was wrong and you were right? [Laughter] We\u2019ll have that discussion later; okay? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Our listeners now want to know [Laughter]: \u201cWhat\u2019s the rest of the story?\u201d You know what? You\u2019ll have to wait to read Bob\u2019s memoirs.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019ll have to wait till heaven on that one, I think. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, we have a guest today who\u2019s going to help straighten it all out and really challenge us with a biblical way of thinking. Scott Sauls joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Scott, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Thanks for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Scott is pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church in Nashville, Tennessee. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe worked for a number of years with Tim Keller\u2014taught him everything he knows. That\u2019s why Tim is successful today up there in New York City. I\u2019m kidding, of course, about that, so\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ll make sure to send this to Tim.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>If Tim\u2019s listening, he probably wouldn\u2019t appreciate that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>It goes the other way around.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; for sure. You tell the story in your book about an encounter you had with a homeless lady\u2014I think it was outside a bagel shop?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I was right there with you\u2014I mean, I was feeling some of the same things you were. Share that story, because it illustrates what I think your book is all about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>You\u2019re referring to an incident that happened when I was walking down Broadway. As is usually the case, there was a woman sitting outside a bagel shop. She asked me if I would buy her some food. I said: \u201cWell, of course, I\u2019d be happy to. I\u2019ll go into this bagel shop here. What kind of bagel do you want, and what do you want on it, and what would you like to drink?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe asked me if I could get her some egg salad instead of a bagel. I said to her, externally, \u201cWell, of course\u201d; but inside, I felt maybe a little bit irritated; because the egg salad cost a lot more than the bagel did\u2014and just sort of had this arrogant, \u201cHere I am, offering to help; and \u2018Beggars can\u2019t be choosers.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that was the big problem\u2014beggars should be able to be choosers, because beggars have as much dignity and the image of God in them as anybody else. The only reason why I\u2019m in a position of being able to buy a bagel has a lot more to do with the conditions in which I was born than it does my hard work and the opportunity that was offered to me that was probably not offered to her in her younger years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI got the egg salad. She graciously received the breakfast and said: \u201cYou know, I\u2019m sorry, sir. I know that this is a lot more expensive than a bagel; but my teeth are completely damaged, and it\u2019s real painful for me to chew on anything.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it was in that moment that I felt like: \u201cThe poor person in this conversation right now is me. I\u2019m kind of like the priest and the Levite, walking by on the other side, in the good Samaritan parable, in that moment, just having a really cold heart.\u201d It really was one of those occasions that helped open my eyes to the reality that there\u2019s a story behind every messy situation. You know, that woman had a story that led her to where she was on the side of the streets. It just reminded me how much I need the gospel and how much I need Jesus to have such a cold heart in that moment. But that was a really formative experience for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You really are calling people to refresh and reset being a follower of Jesus Christ\u2014and think about it, holistically, as they face all kinds of issues\u2014especially as we can tend to take sides about all kinds of political, moral \/ all kinds of issues in our culture today that really do want to paint Christians into a corner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen did you start becoming tired of taking sides? What was it? Was there an incident, or was it just the weariness of facing it over, and over, and over again?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>I think the theme emerged more positively than that; because I came into a church, a few years ago, that was looking for revitalization and renewal. It was a little bit older at the time, and they wanted me to come in and help them sort of bridge the gap with younger generations and that sort of thing. Part of that sort of transformational process in the church included a lot of conversations, and a lot of preaching, and a lot of bringing people together around differences between generations\u2014which led to other forms of diversity starting to come into our midst\u2014not just generationally, but economic diversity and political diversity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt just became kind of an emerging theme of the beauty of the diversity in the body of Christ that Christ came to create\u2014where, in the end, it will be every nation, every tribe, every tongue, every generation\u2014before the throne of God together. That theme of reconciliation and unity around the gospel, including across the lines of difference, became really a rally call for our community and for our church in the way that we were going to do things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think the thing that all of us wrestle with is when we do have the occasion\u2014whether it\u2019s with a family member, a friend, a co-worker\u2014you sit down with somebody and it becomes pretty clear, right away, that you feel strongly about things from one perspective; and the person you\u2019re sitting across the table from feels equally strong about the opposite position. That puts you in at a place, where you go, \u201cDo we have anything in common, and can we have a relationship?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou sat down with a pastor, years ago, who came at a lot of issues from a completely different perspective than you had. You wondered whether there was any way to get to common ground in the midst of that; didn\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes. We can\u2019t both be right, and we can\u2019t both be wrong right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>This was an unfortunate and also, in the best sort of way, life-changing conversation for me. It was several years ago. This one guy on the team just kept getting under my skin, and I kept getting under his. We went out and just talked about our lives and our differences, and we ended up in a shouting match. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA couple days later, he came into my office and he said: \u201cBottom line is\u2014I know I hurt you the other night, and you hurt me. I\u2019m going to own my part of that, and I\u2019m going to ask your forgiveness. I just need to look at you and tell you that I believe for you, just as I believe for myself, Philippians 1:6\u2014I\u2019m confident that \u2018He who began a good work in you,\u2019 Scott, \u2018is going to be faithful to complete it.\u2019 Who am I to decide where you should be in your process toward that ultimate destination?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen he said: \u201cYou and I\u201d\u2014I love this \/ I\u2019ve used this illustration a lot since\u2014he says: \u201cYou and I are a lot like sandpaper. You take two pieces of gritty sandpaper, and you rub them together, and it turns up the heat\u2014it feels like fingernails against a chalkboard\u2014but what happens to both of those pieces of sandpaper after awhile? When you rub them together, they both become smoother.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was actually a really formative conversation for me of the value of differences in tension inside the body of Christ. We so often, especially in the kind of individualistic American context, we hit the \u201ceject\u201d button on each other a lot more quickly than we should. Maybe, we ought to move toward those more tense relationships that include significant differences to see what we might actually learn from the perspective of the other person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So if you\u2019re in that conversation today\u2014you knew you were going out, sitting across the table from somebody who has different theological beliefs, has different political beliefs, different cultural beliefs\u2014and you knew there was potential for heat to be generated in your conversation, how would you approach it differently today than you did when you and your friend went out years ago?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Well, I don\u2019t know how I <em>would<\/em> approach it differently, but I\u2019ll tell you how I would <em>want<\/em> to approach it differently. [Laughter] I would want to approach it with much more of a posture of humility and much <em>less<\/em> of a defensive posture. We go into conversations like that\u2014and our main priority is to be understood\u2014 when maybe the best pathway to us being understood is to seek, first, to understand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I like the way you answered Bob\u2019s question when you said, \u201cWell, I\u2019m not sure what I would do; I know what I <em>wish<\/em> I would do in that situation.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking of a conflict I had with another person, a number of years ago, where I knew I was walking into a conflict. I purposely humbled myself, at the beginning of that conversation, which gave us the chance\u2014because if I walked in \u201cbowed-up\u201d\u2014ready to argue again or ready to prove my point that I was right\u2014there is virtually no chance of being understood or understanding the other person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHumility is really absolutely important\u2014to remember who you are, that you\u2019re made in the image of God, you\u2019re dealing with another image-bearer, and you need to treat them with kindness and respect.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So I have to ask you about verses that say, \u201cContend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints,\u201d and \u201cBeware of the false teachers,\u201d and call them out and expose them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we\u2019re talking about common ground and middle ground, there are some things that there\u2019s no common ground on; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>That is correct. I think\u2014if we look at the dynamic between Jesus and the Pharisees\u2014that becomes quite clear. I think it is Matthew 23, where He starts calling names; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Vipers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>You hear things Jesus sort of pulled out\u2014you know, \u201cYou brood of vipers\u2026\u201d\u2014like He has this whole arsenal that He\u2019s been holding inside until that very moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the important question there is: \u201cWhom do we get contentious with? Whom should we be willing to offend?\u201d I think, in some ways, we\u2019ve gotten it in the reverse in modern, contemporary Christian America. It seems that, in many instances, the Pharisees might actually be really attracted to the way we do our ministries; and the tax collectors, and the prostitutes, and sinners might feel completely bruised by it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWherever that is the case, we need to take a <em>serious<\/em> look at the way we\u2019re doing things; because\u2014if the kinds of people who were upset with Jesus are happy with us, and the kinds of people who were happy with Jesus are upset with us\u2014we are probably more pharisaical than gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know\u2014the other thing too\u2014I think 1 Corinthians 5 is really instructive here, where Paul is very fiercely confronting a sexual situation in the church of Corinth. I think the biggest issue in that church was\u2014even more than the sexual immorality\u2014was the flippancy \/ people weren\u2019t confronting this. He\u2019s like, \u201cYou need to be all over this,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cand there need to be consequences of this so you can rescue this guy\u2019s soul.\u201d He says, \u201cDon\u2019t even eat with such a man.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen he goes on to say: \u201cI\u2019m not at all talking about people who aren\u2019t in the church. I\u2019m not at all talking about people who don\u2019t identify as followers of Jesus, who are involved in sexual immorality. God is the judge of those on the outside.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn other words: \u201cPursue friendship with people who don\u2019t identify with Christianity; and then those who do, let\u2019s hold each other accountable to live in line with the faith that we profess.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s talk about those, though, who are growing up in our household\u2014and who have been trained to think biblically\u2014and are listening to the culture and changing their views on some of the most basic issues that the Bible teaches about, like marriage being between a man and a woman. What would you say to the parents, who are dealing with a teenage son or daughter or perhaps a young adult son or daughter, who have kind of caved in to the culture around marriage being okay between two people of the same sex?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>I would say a couple of things. I would first ask a question: \u201cWho was the first one to cave in to a culture?\u201d because I think a lot of Christians, over the age of 45, caved in to a pretty legalistic church culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the fruit of the \u201990s moral majority\u2014so-called Moral Majority Movement\u2014sort of speaks for itself\u2014that a lot of the consternation and rage against Christianity right now, and the way that public Christianity is being sidelined, is largely because of how Christians severely fumbled the way to be in relationship with sexually-broken people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In other words, a segment of Christianity, who were finger-pointing, judgmental\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; yes\u20149\/11 happened and a famous Christian pastor pointed his finger into a national TV camera and said, \u201cIt\u2019s the gays\u2019 fault.\u201d He named all these different kinds of secular organizations and groups of people, that didn\u2019t identify as Christians, and blamed them for something that happened from the other side of the world. There was a real scolding posture, and you never see this with Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a lot of encounters between Jesus and sexually-unorthodox people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow many instances on record do we have of Him scolding somebody who is not abiding by the one man\/one woman, inside of marriage, sexual ethic? We don\u2019t have any record of that; but we have Him relating very tenderly, and thoughtfully, and in a very nuanced way. I think we also need to ask the question, \u201cHow many people do we know who have the testimony, \u2018I fell in love with Jesus because a Christian or a group of Christians scolded me because of my ethics\u2019?\u201d I\u2019ve been a Christian for almost 30 years. I\u2019ve never met a single person with that story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve met a <em>lot<\/em> of people with the story of, \u201cI came out of addiction\u2026\u201d \u201cI came out of sexual brokenness\u2026\u201d \u201cI came out of anger and arrogance, because Christians loved me,\u201d \u201c\u2026because they invested in me, and they treated me with dignity.\u201d I can count <em>thousands<\/em> of stories like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we have to admit that to the next generation and say: \u201cWe really blew it. We did not, as a whole, represent Jesus Christ in the way that Jesus Christ represents Himself.\u201d We have to own that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So a parent should repent at the point he\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>That\u2019s the first thing we need to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Then what do they do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>I was reading something yesterday\u2014I can\u2019t remember who wrote it\u2014but they were talking about how there\u2019s sort of this double-edged sword with particularly the millennial generation, where there\u2019s this real energy in millennials behind justice efforts\u2014like the poor, and the marginalized, and ethnic minorities, and such\u2014which is awesome \/ it\u2019s all biblical stuff. But the concern that was shared was that most millennials aren\u2019t getting these ideas from the Bible itself. In other words, biblical illiteracy is at an all-time high with the generations under the age of 45.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the challenge for us, as parents, is: \u201cHow do we move into that and affirm the things that actually are biblical?\u201d\u2014and maybe\u2014\u201cYour ideas, as my daughter, about poverty or about caring for aliens, and strangers, and refugees, or cross-racial relationships and reconciliation\u2014those are thoroughly biblical things that our generation and the generation before us completely missed.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn a way, this generation is a biblical corrective for us, but\u2014you know, the real question is, \u201cHow do the two generations come together and get into the Bible together?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other question is: \u201cHow do we persuade our kids that the Bible is a legitimate source?\u201d because the culture around us is now saying that it\u2019s an illegitimate source. Never has Western culture been as <em>bold<\/em> in sort of speaking about the Bible as a non-credible source.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a big challenge, I think, in front of us; but\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>At the end of the day, the authority of Scripture, here, is a bedrock issue\u2014that until we settle that\u2014we\u2019re just going to have a lot of conversations, going back and forth, about, \u201cWell, I think this,\u201d \u201cWell, I think that.\u201d When you come down to say: \u201cIt doesn\u2019t matter what I think. It matters what God thinks, and Scripture is our way to determine that.\u201d Now, at least, we have a reference point from which we can have dialogue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And entering into those conversations, as we talked about earlier, with humility, with some repentance of those matters that we\u2019ve not handled rightly and maybe our kids are doing a better job of handling; but then\u2014ultimately, you just exhorted us to do here, Scott\u2014ultimately moving to the true authority on matters of morality and justice and getting God\u2019s mind on what He thinks about these social issues of our day, and thinking <em>from<\/em> Scripture rather than <em>to<\/em> the Scripture. That\u2019s a challenge with some millennials.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. So listen to the chapters in <em>Jesus Outside the Lines<\/em>: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRed State or Blue State?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor the Unborn or for the Poor?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPersonal Faith or Institutional Church?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMoney Guilt or Money Greed?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAccountability or Compassion?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHypocrite or Work in Progress?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChastity or Sexual Freedom?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHope or Realism?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSelf-Esteem or God-Esteem?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, these are good subjects with which to wrestle. I\u2019d just encourage listeners to get a copy of Scott\u2019s book, <em>Jesus Outside the Lines, <\/em>and start the dialogue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And maybe what you do, as a parent, is give the book <em>first<\/em> to your son or daughter and say: \u201cWhy don\u2019t you read the first couple of chapters and underline statements in here that you agree with or don\u2019t agree with? I\u2019ll get it \/ I\u2019ll read it and do the same, and then let\u2019s grab a cup of coffee. Let\u2019s have a <em>reasonable<\/em> conversation together.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You can order copies from us, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. The book is called <em>Jesus Outside the Lines: A Way Forward for Those Who Are Tired of Taking Sides<\/em>. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHappy anniversary!\u201d today to Harold and Renee Brown\u2014the Browns live in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Today is the Browns\u2019 fourth anniversary. They\u2019re <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, they\u2019ve been to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>getaway; and by the way, we are new to the line-up, here on KNKT, and glad to be a part of what\u2019s going on here on the station\u2014glad that the Browns are tuned in and listening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are celebrating an anniversary today: \u201cHappy anniversary!\u201d to you as well. Here, at FamilyLife, a part of our mission is to help more couples celebrate more anniversaries. We want to provide the kind of practical biblical help and hope that husbands and wives need \/ that families need in order to make a difference in <em>your<\/em> world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate those of you who partner with us to make this effort possible. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> could not exist without partners, like you, who believe in our mission. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo \u201cThanks,\u201d to those of you who are monthly Legacy Partners\u2014we appreciate your ongoing support. And those of you who will, from time to time, pick up the phone, or go online, or write to us to make a donation: \u201cWe appreciate you as well.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, if you can help with a donation right now, we\u2019d love to send you a resource that you can store away until Christmastime. This will help you with your younger children\u2014your elementary-aged or preschool kids. It\u2019s called \u201cThe Twelve Names of Christmas.\u201d It includes 12 ornaments that your kids can hang on the Christmas tree, each of them pointing to a different title for Jesus. It\u2019s our gift to you when you make a donation today. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to donate online, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate over the phone. Or you can request \u201cThe Twelve Names of Christmas\u201d when you mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we have a couple of newlyweds who are going to be joining us. In fact, this weekend, our friends Nancy and Robert Wolgemuth celebrate their first anniversary as husband and wife. Some of you know Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth from her radio program, <em>Revive Our Hearts<\/em>. She and Robert were married a year ago this week. We\u2019re going to catch up with them and find out about how the first year of marriage has been for them. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Justin Adams, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304244","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304244"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304244"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304244"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304244"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304244"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304244"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304244"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}