{"id":304186,"date":"2016-09-29T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2016-09-29T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/how-to-love-those-who-are-hurting\/"},"modified":"2016-09-29T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2016-09-29T15:00:00","slug":"how-to-love-those-who-are-hurting","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-love-those-who-are-hurting\/","title":{"rendered":"How to Love Those Who Are Hurting"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dave Furman and his wife, Gloria, tell what it&#8217;s like dealing with a disability in marriage. Gloria shares how God has met her need for help and hope.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-09-29.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"25.88M","filesize_raw":"27141939","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2860,2821],"tags":[5225,6083,2877],"podcast_series":[8165],"cwp_profile":[9334,3393],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304186","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-reaching-out","tag-disability","tag-hardship-and-suffering","tag-marriage","podcast_series-being-there","cwp_profile-dave-furman","cwp_profile-gloria-furman","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304186\/how-to-love-those-who-are-hurting","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304186\/how-to-love-those-who-are-hurting","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"RPrRbixbqC\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-love-those-who-are-hurting\/\">How to Love Those Who Are Hurting<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-love-those-who-are-hurting\/embed\/#?secret=RPrRbixbqC\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;How to Love Those Who Are Hurting&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"RPrRbixbqC\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-09-29.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-09-29.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It should have been one of the most exciting times in Dave Furman\u2019s life; instead, he found himself discouraged and depressed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Two months before I\u2019m about to launch the church in the Middle East, I\u2019m thinking to myself: \u201cI\u2019m about to get up and be a big hypocrite if I plant this church, and I get up and start preaching about healthy marriages and healthy parenting.\u201d I was <em>mean<\/em> to my wife, disengaged, passively\/aggressively blamed her for some of my pain and wasn\u2019t walking with the Lord. So, I remember sitting one day, two months out from the launch of Redeemer Church of Dubai, going, \u201cGod, I can\u2019t do this.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, September 29<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Even people who want to accomplish big things for God can find themselves discouraged, depressed, and hurting. So, what do you do when that happens?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll talk about that today with Dave and Gloria Furman. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I don\u2019t want to get too metaphorical or esoteric here at the beginning, but I was thinking about what we\u2019re going to be talking about today. I thought, \u201cThere\u2019s a sense in which every husband is married to somebody with a disability \/ every wife is married to somebody with a disability\u2014marriage is two disabled people helping each other out through life, at one level\u201d; right?\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; sometimes, we see the limp. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Other times, the limp is invisible. And we have a couple who have learned how to do life with a few limps that both of them have in their lives. Dave and Gloria Furman join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Gloria, Dave, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s great to be back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>All the way back from?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>From Dubai in the heart of the Middle East. It took a little bit of time for us to get to you, but we\u2019re glad to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you started a church, Redeemer Church, back in 2010. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tell us about how it\u2019s going. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s going really, really well. By God\u2019s grace, we\u2019re seeing men, women, and children come to know Christ. Our church has about 65 different nationalities, who come together to worship God every weekend. Our church is about 90 percent Easterners, and Africans, and Middle Easterners; about 10 percent Westerners. In God\u2019s kindness, we\u2019ve been able to be involved with church planting. We\u2019ve seen people grow in their relationships with God. It\u2019s a joy to serve there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A number of years ago, I had the privilege of speaking at a church in Beijing, China. There were over 60 nationalities represented as about 500 folks joined together. You\u2019ve got about a thousand\u2014right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014coming out every Sunday. It really is something to be singing some of the great hymns, Bob, with folks from other nations, other tribes, other tongues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt really is a privilege. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It really is a little taste of heaven every time we gather together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I\u2019m glad you mentioned that\u2014a taste of heaven\u2014because Bob needed a taste of heaven that is brought to him by three Dallas Theological Seminary graduates. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s good to be with you, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s good to be with you, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s nice to have the intelligentsia here in the room. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We love you!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>All I have is my poor undergraduate degree from the University of Tulsa, but it\u2019s nice to have you sophisticated folks here. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob is no second-class citizen to anyone. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, let\u2019s cut to the chase; and let\u2019s talk about these limps that we\u2019re talking about. Dave, you just finished a book called <em>Being There: How to Love Those Who Are Hurting<\/em>. And why don\u2019t you explain kind of how this subject comes to the forefront here on this broadcast today from your own life?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, Gloria and I got married 14 years ago. There is a picture in my office, actually, of the day we got engaged. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m actually holding Gloria\u2014I picked her up off the ground, and I\u2019m holding her in my arms in Boston, moments after we got engaged. At that point, we got married. Three months later, we thought we were going to change the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had no idea that a few years into marriage we would be at a hotel, and we would try to be floating down the Lazy River of a waterpark. I literally got stuck in the inner tube, and I couldn\u2019t get out; because during those first years of marriage, I developed a nerve disability in my arms\u2014where I ended up not being able to carry anything, pick up anything, even shake hands, or drive. We went through a number of surgeries, a number of procedures, and nothing seemed to help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What\u2019s it called?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, there are different names for it, but one name is reflex sympathetic dystrophy. Basically, the ulnar nerve in both my arms\u2014the nerve that connects with your two smaller fingers just doesn\u2019t work. Almost the exact month that we made plans to serve in the Middle East, my nerves just kind of went. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were, actually, living here in Little Rock, Arkansas. We tried to get all the help we could. My health just went down further, and further, and further until we moved over to the Middle East. One night, I was driving the car. During the drive, Gloria had popped in [a store] to grab some groceries. When she came back out, I was literally in tears, not being able to control the car anymore. That really led me into just a real deep, dark depression. The pain was so severe we really couldn\u2019t make it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Gloria, you had to drive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014today?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes, today\u2014every day, all the time, every trip. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Not just drive, but you have to cut food. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You have to open doors. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Carry bags. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Take care of the kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Go through TSA check outs here in America\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014when you come back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes, yes; I do all of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Sometimes, we don\u2019t even go together in the TSA checkouts; because oftentimes, they\u2019ll look at me and even yell at me for being the passive husband, who is letting the wife do everything. So, there are times when I\u2019ll just kind of go ahead with a kid, and go on my own, and leave everything to Gloria to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In fact, you tell the story in the book about bringing some groceries out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You pull up\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014in front. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Where was that?\u00a0 Was that Nashville at the Opryland Hotel; wasn\u2019t it?\u00a0 You were loading the car. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>I was loading the car. I had one of those bellman\/bellhop carts with our suitcases on it \/ a Pack \u2018n Play for a baby. Stroller\u2014I was pushing that and pulling the cart at the same time. Dave just kind of walked up to the car. I unlocked the car and got Dave in, buckled his seatbelt, got the baby into her car seat, and started loading the back of the trunk. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, when I brought the bellhop cart back to the inside of the hotel\u2014there\u2019d been some ladies who had been watching me the whole time\u2014they started heckling me and said things like: \u201cYou don\u2019t deserve that. You deserve a man who can do these things. Your husband is no good. Why do you put up with that?\u201d\u2014just heckling me. I had a moment to collect my thoughts, as I put the bellhop cart back, and then, walked back out toward the car. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll I could say is, \u201cHe\u2019s disabled,\u201d and just keep walking. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are rare moments like that; but mostly, the thing that kind of wears me down is the daily assumptions that people make\u2014that I don\u2019t need help with things. I\u2019ve learned to compensate for all the extra work, but just the daily grind of it is probably harder to deal with than those ones of\u2014every once in a while, someone says something really, really ugly. But yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know that\u2014and we\u2019re going to spend a lot of time, Dave, talking about how you have learned to cope with this\u2014but Gloria, we go back to your wedding day. This was not\u2014I mean, you said, \u201c\u2026for better or worse\u2026,\u201d\u2014you didn\u2019t know this was coming. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Right, right; right. I think, if someone had pressed me and said, \u201cWhen one of you gets sick, what will you do?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cOh, of course, I will serve!\u00a0 I will <em>gladly<\/em> serve. I will serve with the strength the Lord provides.\u201d\u00a0 I just\u2014I don\u2019t think I envisioned that as something\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>\u2014that was eminent, around the corner, and then, chronic and ongoing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; do you think, if somebody had said: \u201cI\u2019ve seen the future. Let me tell you what\u2019s coming,\u201d\u2014do you think you would have rethought, \u201cI do\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>I would have had some <em>serious<\/em> soul-searching to do: \u201cAm I able to do this?\u201d\u00a0 I would have asked myself: \u201cCan I?\u00a0 Can I? Can I?\u201d\u00a0 And then, hopefully, Lord willing, the Spirit would assure my soul: \u201cNo; you cannot!\u00a0 With the strength the Lord provides, you can do all of these things that God calls you to do.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Has there been a time, over the last five years, as you\u2019ve adjusted to this\u2014has there been a time when you\u2019ve thought: \u201cI didn\u2019t want this. I didn\u2019t sign up for this. Why this burden on me?\u00a0 I mean, we\u2019re trying to go reach the world for Christ. We should get the easy path, not the hard path\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>I think I have thoughts and questions. Sometimes, those questions do tumble around in my mind; but I\u2019m assured very quickly because I\u2019ve seen the grace of God at work in our own lives and in the work of the people whom we serve in the Middle East. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne particular example that comes to mind is when people come\u2014and they come to our church. Perhaps, they\u2019ve been exposed to Christianity before. Maybe, they\u2019ve seen a preacher on the TV claim crazy things about what godly, holy people get to do because of Jesus\u2019 favor on them. Then, they come and they see a disabled pastor. It doesn\u2019t make any sense with their worldview \/ it doesn\u2019t make any sense with the Christianity that they thought they knew. Then, Dave gets to minister to those people. He talks them out of their prosperity cult\u2014[Laughter]\u2014and shares the true gospel with them\u2014that just because you follow Jesus, doesn\u2019t mean you get an easy \/ physically-easy path. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Have you had people say, \u201cYou should claim your healing and be done with this\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s a normal thing. So, oftentimes, people will meet me\u2014maybe, they\u2019re new to the church\u2014and they come up to me and say: \u201cYou\u2019re disabled. You\u2019re hurt. You know what?\u00a0 You\u2019re a pastor \/ you\u2019re close to God\u201d\u2014or\u2014\u201cYou\u2019re a man of faith. God will heal you. Just keep on believing that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd certainly, I\u2019m to keep on praying for healing; and I do. I pray that the Lord would change my heart in the midst of the pain; but yes, there are those that will promise deliverance to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But Paul prayed three times, <em>at least<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong><em>At least<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that his thorn would be removed; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And God, for whatever sovereign purpose and loving purpose God had, those thorns remained. And for our family, this thorn has remained too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Another word that Paul had\u2014and I want you both to comment on this\u2014in the last few verses of Philippians, Chapter 4, it says: \u201cI rejoiced in the Lord greatly that now at length you have revived your concern for me. You were indeed concerned for me, but you had no opportunity. Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance\u2026.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m going to read that again: \u201cIn any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow do you apply this to your lives? This is not theory to you\u2014these are your circumstances. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019ve seen God provide for me in the plenty. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In what way?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Lots of help, lots of extra hands, lots of encouraging words, lots of people want to pray. I\u2019ve seen God provide in my loneliness, too, where I\u2019m the only person doing all of this heavy lifting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I hear those passages that you just read, I\u2019m reminded of probably the biggest miracle that God\u2019s done in my life\u2014He\u2019s kept me\u2014my faith perseveres. I do pray for help, and I get help in those times of need; but the bigger miracle, I think, is that I love Him and I trust Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhatever may come in the future with Dave\u2019s health\u2014if it continues to decline or if want gets bigger and scarier\u2014I know who He is and I trust Him. So, I\u2019m grateful for His provision of those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Gloria, this is not\u2014this is not TV \/ it is radio. So, listeners aren\u2019t able to see your face when you were describing that you hadn\u2019t lost your faith; but you\u2019re still trusting \/ still following. It was interesting to watch you express that. You meant that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>I do mean it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Comment on doubt because I think a lot of followers of Christ don\u2019t know what to do with it. They think that somehow doubt is unspiritual. Yes; they don\u2019t know how to get out of the doubt to get to faith. How have you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Well, we see in the Word that faith is a gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe also see that God loves to give good gifts to His children. If you asked the Lord, \u201cPlease, would You sustain my faith?\u201d\u2014would He not?\u00a0 So, be encouraged by the promises of future grace that you read throughout Scripture. Hang onto those promises of future grace like\u2014like I have to because I have to!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 So, I hang onto God\u2019s promises of future grace in Christ because that\u2019s what I have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I look at my temporary circumstances, if I listen to hecklers, if I look at physical stamina and statistics, then, those are all shifting sands. They are all just going to keep moving under my feet; but if I\u2019m looking to the Word for those promises, I\u2019ve got solid ground to stand on. That builds my faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have to believe there are some women, probably\u2014and some men\u2014facing some circumstances in their marriage who just needed to hear what you just said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat about you, Dave?\u00a0 How have you applied Philippians 4 in your life?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, first of all, I didn\u2019t always apply these verses. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first year-and-a-half we lived overseas, I was deeply depressed and discouraged and wasn\u2019t content in every circumstance. There was a time where I had boils up and down my fingers. I couldn\u2019t touch anything, couldn\u2019t eat with a metal fork, couldn\u2019t drink, and couldn\u2019t button my shirt. Some of those things, I still can\u2019t do; but it was such a dark moment that my mind just went all kinds of dark places. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started thinking, all day long, \u201cIf only ____, then, I\u2019d be happy.\u201d\u00a0 And for me, it was, \u201cIf only my arms were healthy, then, I\u2019d be happy.\u201d\u00a0 I tied my joy to my ever-changing circumstances\u2014that\u2019s where I put my hope in. So, the days\u2014which were most days\u2014when my arms were incredibly painful, I had no joy. And it was about a year-and-a-half of dealing with dark depression \/ a year-and-a-half of dealing with kind of what-ifs: \u201cWhat if I didn\u2019t have arms?\u00a0 What if I just\u2026\u201d I didn\u2019t want to live at times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; I was going to ask you\u2014did you ever think about suicide?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I never planned suicide. I never thought deeply about it; but I said a thousand times a day: \u201cI wish I was dead. I wish I was dead, and I wish I didn\u2019t have arms.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose thoughts just filled my mind, and filled my heart, and soul on a regular basis. That went on for a year-and-a-half\u2014so these verses weren\u2019t true in my heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, about a year-and-a-half in, God\u2019s kindness\u2014we were rebuked by some friends \/ got ahold of some good material on the gospel and applying it to my heart and applying it to my trials. I began to see a little bit of what Paul\u2019s talking about here\u2014that your joy needs to be tied into your identity in Christ, and not your ever-changing circumstances, but the one great permanent circumstance that is the gospel \/ that is our union with Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, a year-and-a-half in, I began to see that there was more to this life than healthy arms and that I could, in fact, have joy, even in pain. That was just a new reality. It just blew my <em>mind<\/em>, and I think these verses in Philippians 4 were a big part of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think of the encounter that Jesus had with the disciples, where it said He said some things that were kind of hard. And sometimes, He says things that are hard, that we have to endure \/ sometimes, we are facing circumstances that are hard, that we have to endure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the disciples, who were left, said\u2014when Jesus turned to them, He said, \u201cAre you, too, going to leave me?\u201d\u00a0 A bunch of them left Christ because they couldn\u2019t absorb it. The disciples say, \u201cLord, where would we go because You alone have eternal life?\u201d\u00a0 What I hear from both of you is kind of like: \u201cOkay; if I give up on God, what have I got?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: I mean, how are you going to make any sense of this?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019ve tasted enough of the fake hope to know that it\u2019s no good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I want to ask you\u2014and by the way, we\u2019re talking to Dave and Gloria Furman. Dave has written a book called <em>Being There: How to Love Those Who Are Hurting<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just wondering\u2014in the year-and-a-half that you were pastoring, and depressed, and wrestling with thoughts throughout the day of \u201cI wish I was dead,\u201d\u2014and then, getting up on Sunday morning and declaring the good news of the gospel to your congregation\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014were you just faking it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, in God\u2019s kindness, that year-and-a-half was the first year-and-a-half we were overseas. We actually planted the church just a couple months <em>after<\/em> that depression snap; but actually, what you\u2019re saying is part of what snapped me out of it. I was\u2014two months before I was about to launch the church in the Middle East, I am thinking to myself: \u201cI\u2019m about to get up and be a big hypocrite, if I plant this church, and get up and start preaching about healthy marriages and healthy parenting.\u201d I had totally, basically rejected my daughter\u2014 I wasn\u2019t spending time or caring for her at all. I was <em>mean<\/em> to my wife, disengaged to her, unkind, passively\/aggressively blamed her for some of my pain, and wasn\u2019t walking with the Lord like I should. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember sitting one day, two months out from the launch of Redeemer Church of Dubai, going: \u201cGod, I can\u2019t do this. I can\u2019t start this church.\u201d\u00a0 That was part of the repentance process that, two months beforehand, turned back to the Lord and started walking with Him. In God\u2019s kindness, we started the church; and I was able to preach and teach as a repentant man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dave, I just\u2014I\u2019m sitting here thinking about this situation. It\u2019s not that I always open the door for my wife when we\u2019re going somewhere; but part of my understanding of who I am, as a man, is that I <em>should<\/em>. You <em>can\u2019t<\/em>\u2014has that\u2014I\u2019m just thinking about your sense of self as: \u201cI\u2019m the man. I\u2019m the husband. I\u2019m the provider. I\u2019m the protector, and part of me is disabled in that assignment.\u201d\u00a0 How have you coped with that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s a ridiculously hard and difficult thing to work through. I would love to drive my wife on the long road trip from Dallas to San Antonio, or to get the doors for her, or to help with the children, and change diapers, and things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first thing to recognize is\u2014it\u2019s really difficult \/ it\u2019s difficult to do that physically\u2014but what I\u2019ve learned along the way is that masculinity under Christ\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014my biblical manhood that I want to live out\u2014isn\u2019t just limited to my physical strength but my spiritual and emotional leadership. I can still lead in the home \/ I can still lead my wife. I can lead my kids and point them to Jesus. It really highlighted what I can do and, really, what all husbands and fathers <em>should<\/em> do. It\u2019s not that I do that perfectly; but I\u2019ve certainly found ways that you can lead and love a family, even in weakness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, I\u2019m looking at Gloria\u2019s face. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She\u2019s laughing right now; isn\u2019t she? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>No! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>She\u2019s grinning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She\u2019s <em>beaming<\/em>!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She\u2019s beaming with joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Honestly, I\u2019m just kind of emotional about watching you [Gloria] [emotion in Dennis\u2019 voice]. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Oh!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>\u201cAmen!\u201d\u2014what you said. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; but I was getting ready to ask you\u2014until I looked at your face\u2014and I thought, \u201cI\u2019m not going to be able to get the words out here.\u201d\u00a0 But how has he carried your burden?\u2014because it\u2019s more than a man carrying a suitcase. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There are burdens in life. How has he carried those with you and for you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes; I think remembering the gospel is the first thing that comes to mind. Any man can carry a suitcase \/ a man of any faith background can carry a suitcase, but my husband cannot carry a suitcase. What I need from a Christian husband is to lead us to the gospel\u2014we need to sit at the foot of the cross every day. We need to be led back there when we want to look around and see if there is a better option. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, all of those things that he said about leading your family, spiritually and emotionally, and how that has to highlight what he can do, and ought to do, and should do\u2014it really outweighs everything that he could do physically for us\u2014that <em>anyone<\/em> can do. Those are the things that a husband does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Dave, this is not a word from heaven; okay?\u00a0 So, hear this for what it is\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m ready; I\u2019m ready. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014this is an idea from me. In about a decade, I\u2019d like to have a book in my hands, entitled <em>Any Man Can Carry a Suitcase.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s a great title. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; it is. I want it to be the lessons you\u2019ve learned; because almost like someone who is blind and whose hearing becomes acute, your sensitivity to carrying burdens and leading undoubtedly is going to help a lot of men. Go for it!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s a great challenge\u2014I\u2019ll remember that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ll give you a little time off since you just finished writing <em>Being There<\/em>. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We do have that book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. And if our listeners are interested\u2014and I hope they are\u2014you can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to order <em>Being There: How to Love Those Who Are Hurting<\/em> by Dave Furman; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to request your copy of the book. So, again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, TODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, today is a big day at the Durkee household in Cedar Springs, Michigan, where John and Kim Durkee are celebrating their fourth wedding anniversary. \u201cCongratulations!\u201d to the Durkees. They listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> on WCSG and have been to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. We just want to say, \u201cCongratulations!\u201d as the Durkees celebrate four years together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know what?\u00a0 Whether it is four years or forty years\u2014every anniversary matters. Every anniversary is a milestone. It\u2019s an indication of God\u2019s grace in your life and in your marriage, and we think couples ought to take time to properly celebrate an anniversary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere, at FamilyLife, we\u2019re celebrating our 40<sup>th<\/sup> anniversary this year, focusing on how God has cared for this ministry and how He has worked through this ministry over the last four decades. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd in that process, we\u2019re thanking those of you who have helped support this work\u2014who have partnered with us in providing practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families. We couldn\u2019t do it without you. And we just want to say, \u201cThank you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to join the FamilyLife team\u2014be a part of what God is doing through this ministry\u2014you can help with a donation by going to FamilyLifeToday.com or calling 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. You can also mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBox 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd when you do get in touch with us to make a donation, ask to receive the FamilyLife 2017 calendar. It\u2019s all ready to go. In fact, it starts with October\u2014so you can put it up as soon as you receive your copy. It will keep you focused on how your home can be an embassy for the kingdom of heaven. So, ask about the calendar when you get in touch with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I hope you can join us back tomorrow. Dave and Gloria Furman will be here again, and we\u2019re going to continue our conversation about how we love each other in the midst of pain\u2014whether it\u2019s physical pain, or emotional pain, stress\/strain. How can we support one another when that\u2019s happening in a marriage?\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow. Hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.88M"],"filesize_raw":["27141939"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304186.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304186.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Furman and his wife, Gloria, tell what it's like dealing with a disability in marriage. Gloria shares how God has met her need for help and hope.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-09-29.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It should have been one of the most exciting times in Dave Furman\u2019s life; instead, he found himself discouraged and depressed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Two months before I\u2019m about to launch the church in the Middle East, I\u2019m thinking to myself: \u201cI\u2019m about to get up and be a big hypocrite if I plant this church, and I get up and start preaching about healthy marriages and healthy parenting.\u201d I was <em>mean<\/em> to my wife, disengaged, passively\/aggressively blamed her for some of my pain and wasn\u2019t walking with the Lord. So, I remember sitting one day, two months out from the launch of Redeemer Church of Dubai, going, \u201cGod, I can\u2019t do this.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, September 29<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Even people who want to accomplish big things for God can find themselves discouraged, depressed, and hurting. So, what do you do when that happens?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll talk about that today with Dave and Gloria Furman. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I don\u2019t want to get too metaphorical or esoteric here at the beginning, but I was thinking about what we\u2019re going to be talking about today. I thought, \u201cThere\u2019s a sense in which every husband is married to somebody with a disability \/ every wife is married to somebody with a disability\u2014marriage is two disabled people helping each other out through life, at one level\u201d; right?\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; sometimes, we see the limp. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Other times, the limp is invisible. And we have a couple who have learned how to do life with a few limps that both of them have in their lives. Dave and Gloria Furman join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Gloria, Dave, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s great to be back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>All the way back from?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>From Dubai in the heart of the Middle East. It took a little bit of time for us to get to you, but we\u2019re glad to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you started a church, Redeemer Church, back in 2010. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tell us about how it\u2019s going. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s going really, really well. By God\u2019s grace, we\u2019re seeing men, women, and children come to know Christ. Our church has about 65 different nationalities, who come together to worship God every weekend. Our church is about 90 percent Easterners, and Africans, and Middle Easterners; about 10 percent Westerners. In God\u2019s kindness, we\u2019ve been able to be involved with church planting. We\u2019ve seen people grow in their relationships with God. It\u2019s a joy to serve there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A number of years ago, I had the privilege of speaking at a church in Beijing, China. There were over 60 nationalities represented as about 500 folks joined together. You\u2019ve got about a thousand\u2014right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014coming out every Sunday. It really is something to be singing some of the great hymns, Bob, with folks from other nations, other tribes, other tongues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt really is a privilege. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It really is a little taste of heaven every time we gather together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I\u2019m glad you mentioned that\u2014a taste of heaven\u2014because Bob needed a taste of heaven that is brought to him by three Dallas Theological Seminary graduates. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s good to be with you, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s good to be with you, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s nice to have the intelligentsia here in the room. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We love you!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>All I have is my poor undergraduate degree from the University of Tulsa, but it\u2019s nice to have you sophisticated folks here. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob is no second-class citizen to anyone. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, let\u2019s cut to the chase; and let\u2019s talk about these limps that we\u2019re talking about. Dave, you just finished a book called <em>Being There: How to Love Those Who Are Hurting<\/em>. And why don\u2019t you explain kind of how this subject comes to the forefront here on this broadcast today from your own life?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, Gloria and I got married 14 years ago. There is a picture in my office, actually, of the day we got engaged. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m actually holding Gloria\u2014I picked her up off the ground, and I\u2019m holding her in my arms in Boston, moments after we got engaged. At that point, we got married. Three months later, we thought we were going to change the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had no idea that a few years into marriage we would be at a hotel, and we would try to be floating down the Lazy River of a waterpark. I literally got stuck in the inner tube, and I couldn\u2019t get out; because during those first years of marriage, I developed a nerve disability in my arms\u2014where I ended up not being able to carry anything, pick up anything, even shake hands, or drive. We went through a number of surgeries, a number of procedures, and nothing seemed to help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What\u2019s it called?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, there are different names for it, but one name is reflex sympathetic dystrophy. Basically, the ulnar nerve in both my arms\u2014the nerve that connects with your two smaller fingers just doesn\u2019t work. Almost the exact month that we made plans to serve in the Middle East, my nerves just kind of went. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were, actually, living here in Little Rock, Arkansas. We tried to get all the help we could. My health just went down further, and further, and further until we moved over to the Middle East. One night, I was driving the car. During the drive, Gloria had popped in [a store] to grab some groceries. When she came back out, I was literally in tears, not being able to control the car anymore. That really led me into just a real deep, dark depression. The pain was so severe we really couldn\u2019t make it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Gloria, you had to drive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014today?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes, today\u2014every day, all the time, every trip. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Not just drive, but you have to cut food. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You have to open doors. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Carry bags. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Take care of the kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Go through TSA check outs here in America\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014when you come back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes, yes; I do all of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Sometimes, we don\u2019t even go together in the TSA checkouts; because oftentimes, they\u2019ll look at me and even yell at me for being the passive husband, who is letting the wife do everything. So, there are times when I\u2019ll just kind of go ahead with a kid, and go on my own, and leave everything to Gloria to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In fact, you tell the story in the book about bringing some groceries out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You pull up\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014in front. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Where was that?\u00a0 Was that Nashville at the Opryland Hotel; wasn\u2019t it?\u00a0 You were loading the car. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>I was loading the car. I had one of those bellman\/bellhop carts with our suitcases on it \/ a Pack \u2018n Play for a baby. Stroller\u2014I was pushing that and pulling the cart at the same time. Dave just kind of walked up to the car. I unlocked the car and got Dave in, buckled his seatbelt, got the baby into her car seat, and started loading the back of the trunk. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, when I brought the bellhop cart back to the inside of the hotel\u2014there\u2019d been some ladies who had been watching me the whole time\u2014they started heckling me and said things like: \u201cYou don\u2019t deserve that. You deserve a man who can do these things. Your husband is no good. Why do you put up with that?\u201d\u2014just heckling me. I had a moment to collect my thoughts, as I put the bellhop cart back, and then, walked back out toward the car. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll I could say is, \u201cHe\u2019s disabled,\u201d and just keep walking. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are rare moments like that; but mostly, the thing that kind of wears me down is the daily assumptions that people make\u2014that I don\u2019t need help with things. I\u2019ve learned to compensate for all the extra work, but just the daily grind of it is probably harder to deal with than those ones of\u2014every once in a while, someone says something really, really ugly. But yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know that\u2014and we\u2019re going to spend a lot of time, Dave, talking about how you have learned to cope with this\u2014but Gloria, we go back to your wedding day. This was not\u2014I mean, you said, \u201c\u2026for better or worse\u2026,\u201d\u2014you didn\u2019t know this was coming. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Right, right; right. I think, if someone had pressed me and said, \u201cWhen one of you gets sick, what will you do?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cOh, of course, I will serve!\u00a0 I will <em>gladly<\/em> serve. I will serve with the strength the Lord provides.\u201d\u00a0 I just\u2014I don\u2019t think I envisioned that as something\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>\u2014that was eminent, around the corner, and then, chronic and ongoing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; do you think, if somebody had said: \u201cI\u2019ve seen the future. Let me tell you what\u2019s coming,\u201d\u2014do you think you would have rethought, \u201cI do\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>I would have had some <em>serious<\/em> soul-searching to do: \u201cAm I able to do this?\u201d\u00a0 I would have asked myself: \u201cCan I?\u00a0 Can I? Can I?\u201d\u00a0 And then, hopefully, Lord willing, the Spirit would assure my soul: \u201cNo; you cannot!\u00a0 With the strength the Lord provides, you can do all of these things that God calls you to do.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Has there been a time, over the last five years, as you\u2019ve adjusted to this\u2014has there been a time when you\u2019ve thought: \u201cI didn\u2019t want this. I didn\u2019t sign up for this. Why this burden on me?\u00a0 I mean, we\u2019re trying to go reach the world for Christ. We should get the easy path, not the hard path\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>I think I have thoughts and questions. Sometimes, those questions do tumble around in my mind; but I\u2019m assured very quickly because I\u2019ve seen the grace of God at work in our own lives and in the work of the people whom we serve in the Middle East. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne particular example that comes to mind is when people come\u2014and they come to our church. Perhaps, they\u2019ve been exposed to Christianity before. Maybe, they\u2019ve seen a preacher on the TV claim crazy things about what godly, holy people get to do because of Jesus\u2019 favor on them. Then, they come and they see a disabled pastor. It doesn\u2019t make any sense with their worldview \/ it doesn\u2019t make any sense with the Christianity that they thought they knew. Then, Dave gets to minister to those people. He talks them out of their prosperity cult\u2014[Laughter]\u2014and shares the true gospel with them\u2014that just because you follow Jesus, doesn\u2019t mean you get an easy \/ physically-easy path. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Have you had people say, \u201cYou should claim your healing and be done with this\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s a normal thing. So, oftentimes, people will meet me\u2014maybe, they\u2019re new to the church\u2014and they come up to me and say: \u201cYou\u2019re disabled. You\u2019re hurt. You know what?\u00a0 You\u2019re a pastor \/ you\u2019re close to God\u201d\u2014or\u2014\u201cYou\u2019re a man of faith. God will heal you. Just keep on believing that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd certainly, I\u2019m to keep on praying for healing; and I do. I pray that the Lord would change my heart in the midst of the pain; but yes, there are those that will promise deliverance to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But Paul prayed three times, <em>at least<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong><em>At least<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that his thorn would be removed; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And God, for whatever sovereign purpose and loving purpose God had, those thorns remained. And for our family, this thorn has remained too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Another word that Paul had\u2014and I want you both to comment on this\u2014in the last few verses of Philippians, Chapter 4, it says: \u201cI rejoiced in the Lord greatly that now at length you have revived your concern for me. You were indeed concerned for me, but you had no opportunity. Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance\u2026.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m going to read that again: \u201cIn any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow do you apply this to your lives? This is not theory to you\u2014these are your circumstances. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019ve seen God provide for me in the plenty. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In what way?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Lots of help, lots of extra hands, lots of encouraging words, lots of people want to pray. I\u2019ve seen God provide in my loneliness, too, where I\u2019m the only person doing all of this heavy lifting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I hear those passages that you just read, I\u2019m reminded of probably the biggest miracle that God\u2019s done in my life\u2014He\u2019s kept me\u2014my faith perseveres. I do pray for help, and I get help in those times of need; but the bigger miracle, I think, is that I love Him and I trust Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhatever may come in the future with Dave\u2019s health\u2014if it continues to decline or if want gets bigger and scarier\u2014I know who He is and I trust Him. So, I\u2019m grateful for His provision of those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Gloria, this is not\u2014this is not TV \/ it is radio. So, listeners aren\u2019t able to see your face when you were describing that you hadn\u2019t lost your faith; but you\u2019re still trusting \/ still following. It was interesting to watch you express that. You meant that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>I do mean it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Comment on doubt because I think a lot of followers of Christ don\u2019t know what to do with it. They think that somehow doubt is unspiritual. Yes; they don\u2019t know how to get out of the doubt to get to faith. How have you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Well, we see in the Word that faith is a gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe also see that God loves to give good gifts to His children. If you asked the Lord, \u201cPlease, would You sustain my faith?\u201d\u2014would He not?\u00a0 So, be encouraged by the promises of future grace that you read throughout Scripture. Hang onto those promises of future grace like\u2014like I have to because I have to!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 So, I hang onto God\u2019s promises of future grace in Christ because that\u2019s what I have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I look at my temporary circumstances, if I listen to hecklers, if I look at physical stamina and statistics, then, those are all shifting sands. They are all just going to keep moving under my feet; but if I\u2019m looking to the Word for those promises, I\u2019ve got solid ground to stand on. That builds my faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have to believe there are some women, probably\u2014and some men\u2014facing some circumstances in their marriage who just needed to hear what you just said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat about you, Dave?\u00a0 How have you applied Philippians 4 in your life?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, first of all, I didn\u2019t always apply these verses. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first year-and-a-half we lived overseas, I was deeply depressed and discouraged and wasn\u2019t content in every circumstance. There was a time where I had boils up and down my fingers. I couldn\u2019t touch anything, couldn\u2019t eat with a metal fork, couldn\u2019t drink, and couldn\u2019t button my shirt. Some of those things, I still can\u2019t do; but it was such a dark moment that my mind just went all kinds of dark places. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started thinking, all day long, \u201cIf only ____, then, I\u2019d be happy.\u201d\u00a0 And for me, it was, \u201cIf only my arms were healthy, then, I\u2019d be happy.\u201d\u00a0 I tied my joy to my ever-changing circumstances\u2014that\u2019s where I put my hope in. So, the days\u2014which were most days\u2014when my arms were incredibly painful, I had no joy. And it was about a year-and-a-half of dealing with dark depression \/ a year-and-a-half of dealing with kind of what-ifs: \u201cWhat if I didn\u2019t have arms?\u00a0 What if I just\u2026\u201d I didn\u2019t want to live at times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; I was going to ask you\u2014did you ever think about suicide?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I never planned suicide. I never thought deeply about it; but I said a thousand times a day: \u201cI wish I was dead. I wish I was dead, and I wish I didn\u2019t have arms.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose thoughts just filled my mind, and filled my heart, and soul on a regular basis. That went on for a year-and-a-half\u2014so these verses weren\u2019t true in my heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, about a year-and-a-half in, God\u2019s kindness\u2014we were rebuked by some friends \/ got ahold of some good material on the gospel and applying it to my heart and applying it to my trials. I began to see a little bit of what Paul\u2019s talking about here\u2014that your joy needs to be tied into your identity in Christ, and not your ever-changing circumstances, but the one great permanent circumstance that is the gospel \/ that is our union with Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, a year-and-a-half in, I began to see that there was more to this life than healthy arms and that I could, in fact, have joy, even in pain. That was just a new reality. It just blew my <em>mind<\/em>, and I think these verses in Philippians 4 were a big part of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think of the encounter that Jesus had with the disciples, where it said He said some things that were kind of hard. And sometimes, He says things that are hard, that we have to endure \/ sometimes, we are facing circumstances that are hard, that we have to endure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the disciples, who were left, said\u2014when Jesus turned to them, He said, \u201cAre you, too, going to leave me?\u201d\u00a0 A bunch of them left Christ because they couldn\u2019t absorb it. The disciples say, \u201cLord, where would we go because You alone have eternal life?\u201d\u00a0 What I hear from both of you is kind of like: \u201cOkay; if I give up on God, what have I got?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: I mean, how are you going to make any sense of this?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019ve tasted enough of the fake hope to know that it\u2019s no good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I want to ask you\u2014and by the way, we\u2019re talking to Dave and Gloria Furman. Dave has written a book called <em>Being There: How to Love Those Who Are Hurting<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just wondering\u2014in the year-and-a-half that you were pastoring, and depressed, and wrestling with thoughts throughout the day of \u201cI wish I was dead,\u201d\u2014and then, getting up on Sunday morning and declaring the good news of the gospel to your congregation\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014were you just faking it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, in God\u2019s kindness, that year-and-a-half was the first year-and-a-half we were overseas. We actually planted the church just a couple months <em>after<\/em> that depression snap; but actually, what you\u2019re saying is part of what snapped me out of it. I was\u2014two months before I was about to launch the church in the Middle East, I am thinking to myself: \u201cI\u2019m about to get up and be a big hypocrite, if I plant this church, and get up and start preaching about healthy marriages and healthy parenting.\u201d I had totally, basically rejected my daughter\u2014 I wasn\u2019t spending time or caring for her at all. I was <em>mean<\/em> to my wife, disengaged to her, unkind, passively\/aggressively blamed her for some of my pain, and wasn\u2019t walking with the Lord like I should. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember sitting one day, two months out from the launch of Redeemer Church of Dubai, going: \u201cGod, I can\u2019t do this. I can\u2019t start this church.\u201d\u00a0 That was part of the repentance process that, two months beforehand, turned back to the Lord and started walking with Him. In God\u2019s kindness, we started the church; and I was able to preach and teach as a repentant man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dave, I just\u2014I\u2019m sitting here thinking about this situation. It\u2019s not that I always open the door for my wife when we\u2019re going somewhere; but part of my understanding of who I am, as a man, is that I <em>should<\/em>. You <em>can\u2019t<\/em>\u2014has that\u2014I\u2019m just thinking about your sense of self as: \u201cI\u2019m the man. I\u2019m the husband. I\u2019m the provider. I\u2019m the protector, and part of me is disabled in that assignment.\u201d\u00a0 How have you coped with that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s a ridiculously hard and difficult thing to work through. I would love to drive my wife on the long road trip from Dallas to San Antonio, or to get the doors for her, or to help with the children, and change diapers, and things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first thing to recognize is\u2014it\u2019s really difficult \/ it\u2019s difficult to do that physically\u2014but what I\u2019ve learned along the way is that masculinity under Christ\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014my biblical manhood that I want to live out\u2014isn\u2019t just limited to my physical strength but my spiritual and emotional leadership. I can still lead in the home \/ I can still lead my wife. I can lead my kids and point them to Jesus. It really highlighted what I can do and, really, what all husbands and fathers <em>should<\/em> do. It\u2019s not that I do that perfectly; but I\u2019ve certainly found ways that you can lead and love a family, even in weakness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, I\u2019m looking at Gloria\u2019s face. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She\u2019s laughing right now; isn\u2019t she? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>No! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>She\u2019s grinning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She\u2019s <em>beaming<\/em>!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She\u2019s beaming with joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Honestly, I\u2019m just kind of emotional about watching you [Gloria] [emotion in Dennis\u2019 voice]. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Oh!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>\u201cAmen!\u201d\u2014what you said. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; but I was getting ready to ask you\u2014until I looked at your face\u2014and I thought, \u201cI\u2019m not going to be able to get the words out here.\u201d\u00a0 But how has he carried your burden?\u2014because it\u2019s more than a man carrying a suitcase. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There are burdens in life. How has he carried those with you and for you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gloria: <\/strong>Yes; I think remembering the gospel is the first thing that comes to mind. Any man can carry a suitcase \/ a man of any faith background can carry a suitcase, but my husband cannot carry a suitcase. What I need from a Christian husband is to lead us to the gospel\u2014we need to sit at the foot of the cross every day. We need to be led back there when we want to look around and see if there is a better option. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, all of those things that he said about leading your family, spiritually and emotionally, and how that has to highlight what he can do, and ought to do, and should do\u2014it really outweighs everything that he could do physically for us\u2014that <em>anyone<\/em> can do. Those are the things that a husband does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Dave, this is not a word from heaven; okay?\u00a0 So, hear this for what it is\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m ready; I\u2019m ready. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014this is an idea from me. In about a decade, I\u2019d like to have a book in my hands, entitled <em>Any Man Can Carry a Suitcase.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s a great title. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; it is. I want it to be the lessons you\u2019ve learned; because almost like someone who is blind and whose hearing becomes acute, your sensitivity to carrying burdens and leading undoubtedly is going to help a lot of men. Go for it!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s a great challenge\u2014I\u2019ll remember that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ll give you a little time off since you just finished writing <em>Being There<\/em>. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We do have that book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. And if our listeners are interested\u2014and I hope they are\u2014you can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to order <em>Being There: How to Love Those Who Are Hurting<\/em> by Dave Furman; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to request your copy of the book. So, again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, TODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, today is a big day at the Durkee household in Cedar Springs, Michigan, where John and Kim Durkee are celebrating their fourth wedding anniversary. \u201cCongratulations!\u201d to the Durkees. They listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> on WCSG and have been to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. We just want to say, \u201cCongratulations!\u201d as the Durkees celebrate four years together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know what?\u00a0 Whether it is four years or forty years\u2014every anniversary matters. Every anniversary is a milestone. It\u2019s an indication of God\u2019s grace in your life and in your marriage, and we think couples ought to take time to properly celebrate an anniversary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere, at FamilyLife, we\u2019re celebrating our 40<sup>th<\/sup> anniversary this year, focusing on how God has cared for this ministry and how He has worked through this ministry over the last four decades. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd in that process, we\u2019re thanking those of you who have helped support this work\u2014who have partnered with us in providing practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families. We couldn\u2019t do it without you. And we just want to say, \u201cThank you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to join the FamilyLife team\u2014be a part of what God is doing through this ministry\u2014you can help with a donation by going to FamilyLifeToday.com or calling 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. You can also mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBox 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd when you do get in touch with us to make a donation, ask to receive the FamilyLife 2017 calendar. It\u2019s all ready to go. In fact, it starts with October\u2014so you can put it up as soon as you receive your copy. It will keep you focused on how your home can be an embassy for the kingdom of heaven. So, ask about the calendar when you get in touch with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I hope you can join us back tomorrow. Dave and Gloria Furman will be here again, and we\u2019re going to continue our conversation about how we love each other in the midst of pain\u2014whether it\u2019s physical pain, or emotional pain, stress\/strain. How can we support one another when that\u2019s happening in a marriage?\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow. Hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. 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