{"id":304170,"date":"2016-09-14T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2016-09-14T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-heart-to-heart-with-plumb\/"},"modified":"2016-09-14T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2016-09-14T15:00:00","slug":"a-heart-to-heart-with-plumb","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-heart-to-heart-with-plumb\/","title":{"rendered":"A Heart-to-Heart With Plumb"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Christian recording artist, Plumb (Tiffany Lee), and her husband Jeremy, fondly remember the ski trip that brought them together, and the challenges that hit them hard 11 years into marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-09-14.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.3M","filesize_raw":"24433142","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2883,2863],"tags":[4063,4064,4062],"podcast_series":[7163],"cwp_profile":[8800],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304170","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-resurrected-marriages","category-saving-a-marriage","tag-challenges-in-marriage","tag-fighting-for-your-marriage","tag-plumb","podcast_series-need-you-now","cwp_profile-jeremy-and-tiffany-lee","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304170\/a-heart-to-heart-with-plumb","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304170\/a-heart-to-heart-with-plumb","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"8irmVdwrZB\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-heart-to-heart-with-plumb\/\">A Heart-to-Heart With Plumb<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-heart-to-heart-with-plumb\/embed\/#?secret=8irmVdwrZB\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Heart-to-Heart With Plumb&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"8irmVdwrZB\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-09-14.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-09-14.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Tiffany Lee, who performs musically as Plumb, remembers when she first realized there was a growing distance \/ an isolation happening in her marriage with her husband Jeremy. At first, she wasn\u2019t particularly concerned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>\u201cThis is just for a season, because this is my best friend\u2014he\u2019s not going anywhere.\u201d So I\u2019m probably a little snippy, and I\u2019m probably a little grumpy. I\u2019m a little more selfish than usual. I\u2019m a little more unavailable \/ a little less intimate\u2014I\u2019m a little \/ you know: \u201cI don\u2019t feel as pretty right now.\u201d All of those different elements\u2014I thought, \u201cWe\u2019ll get through this\u201d; because, in my brain, \u201cWe will <em>never<\/em> split up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, September 14<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey; I'm Bob Lepine. What Tiffany Lee was feeling in her marriage was an indication that there were cracks beginning to form in the foundation. We\u2019ll hear more of her story today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. Right up front, let me remind our listeners about our upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaway season that kicks off here in a couple of weeks. Just a couple more days left in our buy one\/get one free offer that we\u2019re making to any listener who would like to attend an upcoming getaway at one of our 40 or so locations, where we\u2019re hosting these events all across the country this fall.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to attend\u2014you pay the regular price for yourself, and your spouse comes free. The offer is good through the end of this week. If you want to take advantage of this special opportunity, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. You can get more information or register online; or if you have any questions, call 1-800-FL-TODAY. We hope to see you at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, today, we have a guest who\u2019s joining us, where\u2014Dennis, if we use her regular name to introduce her, our listeners would go, \u201cI don\u2019t think we know her\u201d; but if we use her <em>nom de plume<\/em>\u2014you know what that is; right? You\u2019re familiar with a <em>nom de plume<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Her pen name \/ her stage name, if you will\u2014everybody will go: \u201cOh! Okay, I know who you\u2019re talking about now.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, we have a special guest who goes by the name of Plumb, who has written a book called <em>Need You Now<\/em>; and her husband Jeremy join us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Hello.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Hi. Glad you\u2019re here. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Hello.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And it\u2019s okay to\u2014do you want us to call you Plumb or Tiffany? Which do you prefer?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Oh, man. You can call me either one\u2014Tiffany, also known as Plumb. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There we go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, there\u2019s a reason why her name is Plumb. She is a recording artist, songwriter, and performer; but importantly, she and Jeremy are married. They have three children and live near Nashville. They are here to tell a <em>great<\/em> story of God\u2019s redeeming work in a marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut before we go there, I think we have to address the issue of how you came up with the name of Plumb. I know no one\u2019s ever asked you that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>You\u2019re the first one! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>First one!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Goodness.Well, I had just signed a record deal, and I was putting together a band. They had signed just me, but I was trying to come up with a band name. I have kind of always been a fan, since high school, of Susan Vega. I purchased her most recent project at that time, and there\u2019s a song on it called <em>My Favorite Plum<\/em>\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014on the CD. I was going to have the record on repeat and kept hearing the same song over and over\u2014I accidentally put that song on repeat; so I kept hearing <em>My Favorite Plum<\/em> over, and over, and over.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought: \u201cWait a minute\u2014plum. I like how that sounds.\u201d So I was talking to my A&amp;R [Artists and Repertoire] guy the next day. I said, \u201cWhat do you think of the name Plum?\u201d And the A&amp;R guy said, \u201cHow would you spell that?\u201d I said, \u201cWell, P-l-u-m.\u201d Matt Bronlewee, who was my writing partner at the time \/ who\u2019s now been my producer forever, said, \u201cWell, if you put a \u2018b\u2019 on the end of it, it means \u2018true\u2019 versus just the fruit.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was <em>sold<\/em>\u2014I kind of joke that the \u201cb\u201d in Plumb stands for Matt Bronlewee; because it was kind of his idea. I actually love it. I feel like it has really come to represent what I stand for, which is just raw, honest truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So are fans known as Plumbers? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>What\u2019s funny is\u2014they do call themselves that, which is sort of\u2014you know\u2014ironic, believe me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Not Plumb-liners, but Plumbers<em>. <\/em>[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, tell us about the homes you grew up in, Jeremy. Did you grow up in a solid family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>I did. I grew up by\u2014my mother listens to your show <em>religiously<\/em>. In fact, when I told her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>She\u2019s a brilliant woman; you know that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>She gave me the run-down on both of you\u2014everything about you \/ you have six children\u2014<em>everything<\/em> about you guys. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Yes; I grew up in the Nashville area with mother\/father, two sisters, and a brother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And grew up going to church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Very active\u2014my dad was the youth pastor when I was a little child; and then, we worked at a boys\u2019 home, growing up. So yes; very active in church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So you were pointed toward Jesus, young?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>At birth. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And at what point in your life did that faith become personal \/ become your own?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Well, as a child\u2014when I was five or six, I accepted Christ when we were at Vacation Bible School. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt <em>really<\/em> became personal in college when I went to Liberty and, really, for the first time began to have a relationship, where I felt like, \u201cThis is an actual relationship with God.\u201d Before that, it was more like you did what you were told to do. You just sort of\u2014you were in a bubble; you know. You went to a Christian school \/ lived in a Christian home, and very bubble there. So Liberty was sort of\u2014even though it was still a bubble, it was sort of my first opportunity to feel like I had that personal relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, you were making choices for yourself. It wasn\u2019t mom or dad or anybody looking over your shoulder\u2014you were deciding: \u201cAm I going to read my Bible? Am I going to pray? Am I going to go to church?\u201d\u2014all of that stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you stepped into it and said, \u201cThis is what I believe\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did they have convocation, back then, when you attended?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>They did!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Really?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Three times a week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong><em>Amazing<\/em>. As you mentioned earlier, I spoke at convocation. Usually there are 12,000 young people\u2014men and women\u2014there at the event. I asked them to only speak to the guys\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Oh really.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because I wanted to talk straight to the guys. I feel like the battleground today, in a lot of situations, really, leads back to men being men. Those guys were really listening. That was a real privilege.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>See, I like to tell the story\u2014I say that, when Dennis spoke at convocation, only half the students showed up. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tiffany, what about you? Did you grow up in a Christian home?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Grew up in a Christian home. My grandfather was a Nazarene minister. I was in church from the get-go\u2014asked Jesus into my heart at Vacation Bible School when I was eight. I think\u2014looking back\/reflecting back\u2014I think that was kind of out of fear, because I\u2019d heard a story of hell. So, when I was in my teens and early twenties, my relationship with God had a good bit to do with who I had a crush on or who I was dating. If I was dating the pastor\u2019s son, I was\u2014you know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You were on fire for\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>\u2014on fire for Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If I had a crush on the quarterback at school\u2014not that every quarterback is not a Christian\u2014but I would\u2014even if he wasn\u2019t necessarily as solid \/ I was a little wishy-washy\u2014so I was a pretty wishy-washy, selfish Christian.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Chameleon\u2014a chameleon Christian.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Yes; a bit of a chameleon at that age in my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, after I got married\u2014took it more seriously; but it wasn\u2019t until our marriage fell apart that I met Jesus in a completely new way. I feel like a new Christian\u2014so\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You mentioned that your marriage went through a deep, dark valley. I want to hear more about the story of your music and how God led you to that, but I want to kind of have it be in the context of your relationship. How did you guys meet, Jeremy?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>We met on a college ski trip. We were going to Colorado\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>\u2014through our church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Yes; through our church. Our church was taking the college group to Colorado to go skiing. I signed up, and she signed up. At the time, I was at Liberty. I came home just for Christmas break and was going on the ski trip, and that\u2019s where I met her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>And I had just started going to the church, so I had never met him until the trip.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And was it love at first sight?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>It was pretty\u2014I mean\u2014it was pretty close. I remember him walking\u2014I remember his sister, whom I had come to know, walking in. She had just gotten engaged. I thought she wasn\u2019t going on the trip because they were saving money for their wedding. I said: \u201cWhy are you here? I thought you weren\u2019t going on the ski trip.\u201d She said: \u201cI\u2019m not. I was just dropping off my brother.\u201d She had a 13-year-old brother\u2014I was like, \u201cWhy is he going on the college trip?\u201d She said, \u201cWell, no; I have a brother who\u2019s 22. He\u2019s right over there.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember, vividly, looking. On the back of his shirt, it said Plug, which is a brand of snowboard gear; but I thought it said Plumb for a second. I was like, \u201cOh no!\u201d\u2014like, \u201cThere\u2019s the fan on the trip!\u201d [Laughter] When he turned his head, I remember taking a double take of: \u201cI like how he looks!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s pretty cool. I mean\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But you weren\u2019t a fan; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>No; I wasn\u2019t. And a <em>lot<\/em> has changed since then in my appearance. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Whatever \/ whatever. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, how does a guy, who\u2019s not a fan of Plumb\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014become a fan? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well\u2014how did you propose? I mean, I\u2019m thinking: \u201cHere she is\u2014a creator of songs, singer of songs, and performer on the stage\u2014you have to feel some serious heat in terms of how you went about this\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Yes; yes, and I\u2019m not creative. I\u2019m not\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>That is not true! He\u2019s being humble right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>I\u2019m just\u2014you know\u2014it wasn\u2019t anything spectacular. We literally went to this place, where I told her that I loved her. We went to the park\u2014and had her best friends hiding in the bushes\u2014and I sat there for 15 minutes, trying to get up the nerve to do it. [Laughter] I asked her to marry me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>The girl version of that would be that he told me he loved me at Centennial Park; and then he took me back there for lunch, and we were having my favorite lunch. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI <em>love<\/em> root beer, and I loved this particular place\u2019s tea cake cookies. You know, he has my two best friends hiding in the bushes\u2014one\u2019s filming \/ one\u2019s taking still images. He goes into the speech and gets up on one knee. I start crying and say, \u201cYes!\u201d about 19 times; and then they come running out. It\u2019s fantastic \/ it was absolutely perfect.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, everything a single woman would want in terms of a proposal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Yes; yes. He\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Way to go, Jeremy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s\u2014yes; her story\u2019s much better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; well, the tea cake cookies\u2014that\u2019s a good move on your part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, how long were you married before you sensed that there were difficulties or challenges?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>I would say, for me, I noticed difficulties about six weeks before the bottom fell out. I was very, very unaware\u2014so eleven years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Eleven years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you would say the first eleven years were smooth sailing? You guys got along fine; everything was good?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>I thought it was <em>awesome<\/em>; and at the same time, we had three children, back to back, so I was kind of in survival mode. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJeremy was very constant about wanting me to keep being creative\u2014like, \u201cHey, get a babysitter today and just go song-write.\u201d I would feel guilty about that\u2014I felt like I had to stay home, and be mom, and\u2026 \u201cWell, let\u2019s hire a house-keeper then.\u201d \u201cNo; I can\u2019t do that. I need to be the one who cleans.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe and I both were raised by stay-at-home moms, who did all of that. I felt like I had to do all of that, not realizing that I was losing myself. I had this image of post-partum depression\u2014as a woman who doesn\u2019t get out of bed and who cries all day. I had to get out of bed, and I didn\u2019t have time to cry all day\u2014so, in my brain: \u201cI\u2019m not depressed.\u201d But I <em>was<\/em>\u2014I was absolutely depressed and overwhelmed\u2014and couldn\u2019t verbalize it \/ couldn\u2019t own it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, in my brain, I thought: \u201cWell, this is just for a season. They\u2019ll eventually go to the bathroom on a toilet, and they will eventually eat adult food, and they will eventually be able to all walk, and\u2014\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cand dress themselves.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cand dress themselves!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Thankfully; they do now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Yes; thankfully, they do now. But it\u2019s\u2014you know: \u201cThey\u2019ll eventually be able to do that. So this is just for a season; because this is my best friend\u2014he\u2019s not going anywhere.\u201d I\u2019m probably a little snippy, and I\u2019m probably a little grumpy. I\u2019m a little more selfish than usual. I\u2019m a little more unavailable\u2014I\u2019m a little less intimate \/ I\u2019m a little\u2014you know\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t feel as pretty right now,\u201d\u2014just all of those different elements. I thought, \u201cWe\u2019ll get through this\u201d; because, in my brain, \u201cWe will <em>never<\/em> split up.\u201d I sort of took advantage of that hope that that would never happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And what were you thinking at that same time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>I was thinking: \u201cI\u2019m overwhelmed. I\u2019m doing a lot on my own,\u201d\u2014and that my wife felt like she was really depressed and she felt like\u2014I would do my best to try to make a situation better and sort of have a positive attitude about things. But the entire time, I was setting up this wall of like\u2014\u201cI\u2019m the one doing this, and I\u2019m the one doing that,\u201d\u2014and sort of making myself an island and saying: \u201cHere\u2019s what I\u2019m doing to take care of the problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBut yet, I feel like I\u2019m not making any progress here.\u201d I sort of felt like I was the one handling most of the burden; although Tiffany would have said she was handling the children and the burden <em>there<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>And he didn\u2019t feel like he could tell me that, because I was a loose cannon. I mean, he could pull in the driveway from work\u2014and if he was 15 minutes late, it was 15 minutes more that I had to handle all of this by myself. He would walk in the door; and instead of being like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m so glad you\u2019re home,\u201d I would be like, \u201cWhere have you been?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \u201cI remember\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t want to put words in your mouth\u2014but he says he remembers pulling in the driveway and just not wanting to come inside\u2014of just: \u201cWhat kind of mood is she in? What have I done wrong this time?\u201d So being afraid to tell me: \u201cI don\u2019t like being around you right now. I feel disconnected from you. I don\u2019t feel\u2026\u201d\u2014you know, whatever it was he was feeling. He felt like any of that would have just set me off and made things even worse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>And I just was at that place, where I\u2019m saying, \u201cOkay.\u201d There were times that you\u2019d walk in and it was <em>great<\/em>\u2014everything was wonderful, and there was a good attitude. But there were a <em>lot<\/em> of times that that wasn\u2019t, and it got to where I just started disconnecting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to say, first of all, that none of that should have been what should have happened. I should have addressed it\u2014we should have gone to counseling \/ we should have talked about it with people\u2014I didn\u2019t do that. I don\u2019t know why I didn\u2019t\u2014you know, I don\u2019t know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>We\u2019ve talked about my reaction would have been not as receptive as it should have been. I definitely think\u2014had he taken me aside and said what he needed to say, I would have probably disagreed with him. I would have probably accused him of being unaware of: \u201cDo you realize how many diapers I change?\u201d and \u201c\u2026how many children I\u2019m feeding?\u201d and \u201cI don\u2019t have any time for myself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time, I think there was resentment from me towards him because I <em>knew<\/em>\u2014if I asked for someone to clean the house, or if I had asked for someone to watch the kids, or if I had asked to just spend the time doing some musical\u2014he would have been the first person in line to say: \u201cGo! Do it!\u201d because he knew how that makes me feel; and consequently, how I act accordingly to that. So it\u2019s just\u2014my response to that is\u2014I\u2019m a lot more fulfilled, I\u2019m a lot happier, and I\u2019m probably more pleasant to be around.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was like his subtle way of, \u201cMan, I really wish you\u2019d get out of the house.\u201d In my brain, I was saying: \u201cThat\u2019s like trying to defer my responsibilities to someone else. My responsibility is <em>here<\/em>. I need to be with these children, and I need to be the one\u2014I don\u2019t want a babysitter. I want to be able to do it myself.\u201d At the same time, I <em>needed<\/em> a babysitter; and I needed a housekeeper. It\u2019s taken years for me to be able to come to a place where I realize, sometimes, that is not financially feasible for some\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but if it is\u2014or at any point, even just once in a while\u2014to ask for help, to ask for childcare, and to ask for someone to help you in various different ways. It\u2019s <em>so<\/em> important, and you don\u2019t realize you\u2019re drowning. You just don\u2019t, and I didn\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You have to think there are a lot of people, listening right now\u2014and some of them are unaware, but some are very aware\u2014that there\u2019s low-level frustration that marriage is not where they\u2019d hoped it would be \/ that they\u2019re not at the place that they long to be, as a couple; but they\u2019re afraid to confront it. They\u2019re afraid to talk to one another about it. They just don\u2019t know what to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And as in raising children, the same thing\u2019s true in a marriage: \u201cThe easiest thing to do is nothing, because it doesn\u2019t create conflict at the moment.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t want to feel like I\u2019m piling on you, Jeremy, at this point; but would you say you were fairly passive then, as a husband, around these issues?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Yes; I was. I was just\u2014I didn\u2019t want to rock the boat.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And see, I think that\u2019s what I want the listeners to hear, especially the husbands. You know, you don\u2019t have all the answers to step into the midst of the mud puddle and say: \u201cSomething\u2019s not going on here that\u2019s right. We need to have a heart-to-heart\u2014we need to have a conversation.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd okay; so it gets messy. Okay; so your wife doesn\u2019t like it that you step off in the mud puddle and ask for some definition of what\u2019s going on and \u201cUnpack what you\u2019re feeling and what\u2019s taking place.\u201d I think, a lot of times, guys don\u2019t step forward because they don\u2019t know exactly what to do. They want to fix it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Right. I was going to say\u2014we\u2019re fixers. I want to fix everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And if you don\u2019t know how to fix it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>\u2014then you don\u2019t want to go there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; so the easiest thing to do is <em>nothing<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you\u2019re saying a husband ought to just stand up and say, \u201cOkay; I don\u2019t know how to fix this, but something\u2019s wrong and we need help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I just want to go over to Ephesians 5 and just mention a couple of words, where it commands the husband to nourish and cherish his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNourish means to cause to grow. At this point, Tiffany, you needed to grow out of a season of life\u2014have some hope \/ some freshness in your life. It means to cultivate a sense of growth. That means you have to go where you may not know how to answer that question. You many need a third party to help at some point\u2014a counselor or a conference like the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other thing a husband is commanded to do is\u2014he\u2019s commanded to cherish his wife. That means to love her in such a way\u2014and Tiffany, you said this\u2014you weren\u2019t sure you would have heard what he said \/ you weren\u2019t sure you would have received it. It didn\u2019t sound, to me, like you had a teachable heart\u2014you were kind of becoming hardened a bit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the assignment of a husband is to be such a student of his wife that he knows how to love her in such a way that it will soften her heart. That\u2019s what the word, \u201ccherish,\u201d means\u2014it means to soften it \/ to make it receptive so it can grow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and again, I think for a man to hear us say: \u201cYou may not know the right thing to do; but if you sense something\u2019s wrong, just stand up and say: \u2018Hang on. Something\u2019s wrong here. I\u2019m not sure exactly what it is. I\u2019m not sure how to fix it, but I <em>know<\/em> that just letting it be is not the right answer. So let\u2019s put our heads together, let\u2019s pray together, let\u2019s seek help, let\u2019s get counsel, and let\u2019s talk to some friends; because we can\u2019t stay here.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And \u201cLet\u2019s go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> together.\u201d You know, I just have to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I knew you would recommend that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I have to recommend it, because we\u2019ve been doing this for 40 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And more than three million people have been through all of our marriage conferences and events. We\u2019ve been working to make the Bible plain and clear about how a husband needs to be a husband. A lot of times, there are guys like Jeremy\u2014and he\u2019s nodding his head now\u2014they want to do what\u2019s right \/ they\u2019re just not sure how to step forward and how to provide solutions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo if you don\u2019t know what to do, find a way to get away for a weekend\u2014find a babysitter and spend a weekend at one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways in one of 85 locations [fall and spring] around the country. I promise you\u2014you\u2019re going to hear the blueprints; you\u2019re going to hear a new assignment, as a husband \/ as a wife; and in some cases, find your way out of a deep ditch.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and of course, if you sign up before the end of the weekend, you save \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t50 percent off the regular registration fee\u2014we have a buy one\/get one offer going on right now\u2014you pay the regular rate for yourself; your spouse comes free. That offer is good through the end of the weekend. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to register, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to register. Again, the website\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Plan to join us at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway this fall.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhile you\u2019re on our website, look for information about the book that Plumb has written\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it\u2019s called <em>Need You Now: A Story of Hope<\/em>. It tells the story that we\u2019re sharing this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. This may be a book that you want to get and pass on to somebody who is out of hope for their marriage. You can order from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. We also have copies of Plumb\u2019s new audio CD called <em>Need You<\/em> <em>Now<\/em>\u2014a great music CD. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order your copy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we want to say \u201cHappy 20<sup>th<\/sup> anniversary!\u201d today to Ken and Susan Reich, who live in Arlington, Tennessee. They got married on this day in 1996. In fact, they joined us a couple of years ago on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise\u2014\u201cHappy anniversary!\u201d to Ken and Susan\u2014and to all the rest of you, who are celebrating anniversaries today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe think anniversaries matter. Here, at FamilyLife, we\u2019re celebrating anniversaries all year long; because this is our 40th anniversary as a ministry\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we\u2019ve been celebrating that all year long as well. We\u2019re really thanking God for His work through FamilyLife over the last four decades and thanking listeners, like you, who help support this ministry, for making it all possible. We could not do what we do if it weren\u2019t for folks, like you, contributing financially to support what we do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation today, we\u2019d like to say a big \u201cThank you!\u201d by sending you our 2017 FamilyLife calendar. It\u2019s all about how you can be an ambassador for Christ and how your home can be an embassy for the King\u2014something we\u2019ve talked about recently, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. That calendar actually starts with October of 2016; so when you get it, you can put it right to use. And again, we want to say, \u201cThanks for your support of this ministry.\u201d Make your donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FLTODAY to donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr request the calendar when you mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBox 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about the moment in time when Tiffany Lee \/ when Plumb first realized that her marriage really was in serious trouble. We\u2019ll hear that story tomorrow. Hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.3M"],"filesize_raw":["24433142"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304170.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304170.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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recording artist, Plumb (Tiffany Lee), and her husband Jeremy, fondly remember the ski trip that brought them together, and the challenges that hit them hard 11 years into marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-09-14.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Tiffany Lee, who performs musically as Plumb, remembers when she first realized there was a growing distance \/ an isolation happening in her marriage with her husband Jeremy. At first, she wasn\u2019t particularly concerned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>\u201cThis is just for a season, because this is my best friend\u2014he\u2019s not going anywhere.\u201d So I\u2019m probably a little snippy, and I\u2019m probably a little grumpy. I\u2019m a little more selfish than usual. I\u2019m a little more unavailable \/ a little less intimate\u2014I\u2019m a little \/ you know: \u201cI don\u2019t feel as pretty right now.\u201d All of those different elements\u2014I thought, \u201cWe\u2019ll get through this\u201d; because, in my brain, \u201cWe will <em>never<\/em> split up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, September 14<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey; I'm Bob Lepine. What Tiffany Lee was feeling in her marriage was an indication that there were cracks beginning to form in the foundation. We\u2019ll hear more of her story today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. Right up front, let me remind our listeners about our upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaway season that kicks off here in a couple of weeks. Just a couple more days left in our buy one\/get one free offer that we\u2019re making to any listener who would like to attend an upcoming getaway at one of our 40 or so locations, where we\u2019re hosting these events all across the country this fall.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to attend\u2014you pay the regular price for yourself, and your spouse comes free. The offer is good through the end of this week. If you want to take advantage of this special opportunity, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. You can get more information or register online; or if you have any questions, call 1-800-FL-TODAY. We hope to see you at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, today, we have a guest who\u2019s joining us, where\u2014Dennis, if we use her regular name to introduce her, our listeners would go, \u201cI don\u2019t think we know her\u201d; but if we use her <em>nom de plume<\/em>\u2014you know what that is; right? You\u2019re familiar with a <em>nom de plume<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Her pen name \/ her stage name, if you will\u2014everybody will go: \u201cOh! Okay, I know who you\u2019re talking about now.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, we have a special guest who goes by the name of Plumb, who has written a book called <em>Need You Now<\/em>; and her husband Jeremy join us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Hello.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Hi. Glad you\u2019re here. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Hello.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And it\u2019s okay to\u2014do you want us to call you Plumb or Tiffany? Which do you prefer?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Oh, man. You can call me either one\u2014Tiffany, also known as Plumb. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There we go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, there\u2019s a reason why her name is Plumb. She is a recording artist, songwriter, and performer; but importantly, she and Jeremy are married. They have three children and live near Nashville. They are here to tell a <em>great<\/em> story of God\u2019s redeeming work in a marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut before we go there, I think we have to address the issue of how you came up with the name of Plumb. I know no one\u2019s ever asked you that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>You\u2019re the first one! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>First one!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Goodness.Well, I had just signed a record deal, and I was putting together a band. They had signed just me, but I was trying to come up with a band name. I have kind of always been a fan, since high school, of Susan Vega. I purchased her most recent project at that time, and there\u2019s a song on it called <em>My Favorite Plum<\/em>\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014on the CD. I was going to have the record on repeat and kept hearing the same song over and over\u2014I accidentally put that song on repeat; so I kept hearing <em>My Favorite Plum<\/em> over, and over, and over.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought: \u201cWait a minute\u2014plum. I like how that sounds.\u201d So I was talking to my A&amp;R [Artists and Repertoire] guy the next day. I said, \u201cWhat do you think of the name Plum?\u201d And the A&amp;R guy said, \u201cHow would you spell that?\u201d I said, \u201cWell, P-l-u-m.\u201d Matt Bronlewee, who was my writing partner at the time \/ who\u2019s now been my producer forever, said, \u201cWell, if you put a \u2018b\u2019 on the end of it, it means \u2018true\u2019 versus just the fruit.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was <em>sold<\/em>\u2014I kind of joke that the \u201cb\u201d in Plumb stands for Matt Bronlewee; because it was kind of his idea. I actually love it. I feel like it has really come to represent what I stand for, which is just raw, honest truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So are fans known as Plumbers? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>What\u2019s funny is\u2014they do call themselves that, which is sort of\u2014you know\u2014ironic, believe me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Not Plumb-liners, but Plumbers<em>. <\/em>[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, tell us about the homes you grew up in, Jeremy. Did you grow up in a solid family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>I did. I grew up by\u2014my mother listens to your show <em>religiously<\/em>. In fact, when I told her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>She\u2019s a brilliant woman; you know that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>She gave me the run-down on both of you\u2014everything about you \/ you have six children\u2014<em>everything<\/em> about you guys. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Yes; I grew up in the Nashville area with mother\/father, two sisters, and a brother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And grew up going to church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Very active\u2014my dad was the youth pastor when I was a little child; and then, we worked at a boys\u2019 home, growing up. So yes; very active in church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So you were pointed toward Jesus, young?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>At birth. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And at what point in your life did that faith become personal \/ become your own?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Well, as a child\u2014when I was five or six, I accepted Christ when we were at Vacation Bible School. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt <em>really<\/em> became personal in college when I went to Liberty and, really, for the first time began to have a relationship, where I felt like, \u201cThis is an actual relationship with God.\u201d Before that, it was more like you did what you were told to do. You just sort of\u2014you were in a bubble; you know. You went to a Christian school \/ lived in a Christian home, and very bubble there. So Liberty was sort of\u2014even though it was still a bubble, it was sort of my first opportunity to feel like I had that personal relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, you were making choices for yourself. It wasn\u2019t mom or dad or anybody looking over your shoulder\u2014you were deciding: \u201cAm I going to read my Bible? Am I going to pray? Am I going to go to church?\u201d\u2014all of that stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you stepped into it and said, \u201cThis is what I believe\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did they have convocation, back then, when you attended?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>They did!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Really?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Three times a week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong><em>Amazing<\/em>. As you mentioned earlier, I spoke at convocation. Usually there are 12,000 young people\u2014men and women\u2014there at the event. I asked them to only speak to the guys\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Oh really.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because I wanted to talk straight to the guys. I feel like the battleground today, in a lot of situations, really, leads back to men being men. Those guys were really listening. That was a real privilege.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>See, I like to tell the story\u2014I say that, when Dennis spoke at convocation, only half the students showed up. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tiffany, what about you? Did you grow up in a Christian home?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Grew up in a Christian home. My grandfather was a Nazarene minister. I was in church from the get-go\u2014asked Jesus into my heart at Vacation Bible School when I was eight. I think\u2014looking back\/reflecting back\u2014I think that was kind of out of fear, because I\u2019d heard a story of hell. So, when I was in my teens and early twenties, my relationship with God had a good bit to do with who I had a crush on or who I was dating. If I was dating the pastor\u2019s son, I was\u2014you know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You were on fire for\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>\u2014on fire for Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If I had a crush on the quarterback at school\u2014not that every quarterback is not a Christian\u2014but I would\u2014even if he wasn\u2019t necessarily as solid \/ I was a little wishy-washy\u2014so I was a pretty wishy-washy, selfish Christian.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Chameleon\u2014a chameleon Christian.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Yes; a bit of a chameleon at that age in my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, after I got married\u2014took it more seriously; but it wasn\u2019t until our marriage fell apart that I met Jesus in a completely new way. I feel like a new Christian\u2014so\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You mentioned that your marriage went through a deep, dark valley. I want to hear more about the story of your music and how God led you to that, but I want to kind of have it be in the context of your relationship. How did you guys meet, Jeremy?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>We met on a college ski trip. We were going to Colorado\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>\u2014through our church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Yes; through our church. Our church was taking the college group to Colorado to go skiing. I signed up, and she signed up. At the time, I was at Liberty. I came home just for Christmas break and was going on the ski trip, and that\u2019s where I met her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>And I had just started going to the church, so I had never met him until the trip.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And was it love at first sight?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>It was pretty\u2014I mean\u2014it was pretty close. I remember him walking\u2014I remember his sister, whom I had come to know, walking in. She had just gotten engaged. I thought she wasn\u2019t going on the trip because they were saving money for their wedding. I said: \u201cWhy are you here? I thought you weren\u2019t going on the ski trip.\u201d She said: \u201cI\u2019m not. I was just dropping off my brother.\u201d She had a 13-year-old brother\u2014I was like, \u201cWhy is he going on the college trip?\u201d She said, \u201cWell, no; I have a brother who\u2019s 22. He\u2019s right over there.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember, vividly, looking. On the back of his shirt, it said Plug, which is a brand of snowboard gear; but I thought it said Plumb for a second. I was like, \u201cOh no!\u201d\u2014like, \u201cThere\u2019s the fan on the trip!\u201d [Laughter] When he turned his head, I remember taking a double take of: \u201cI like how he looks!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s pretty cool. I mean\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But you weren\u2019t a fan; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>No; I wasn\u2019t. And a <em>lot<\/em> has changed since then in my appearance. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Whatever \/ whatever. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, how does a guy, who\u2019s not a fan of Plumb\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014become a fan? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well\u2014how did you propose? I mean, I\u2019m thinking: \u201cHere she is\u2014a creator of songs, singer of songs, and performer on the stage\u2014you have to feel some serious heat in terms of how you went about this\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Yes; yes, and I\u2019m not creative. I\u2019m not\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>That is not true! He\u2019s being humble right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>I\u2019m just\u2014you know\u2014it wasn\u2019t anything spectacular. We literally went to this place, where I told her that I loved her. We went to the park\u2014and had her best friends hiding in the bushes\u2014and I sat there for 15 minutes, trying to get up the nerve to do it. [Laughter] I asked her to marry me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>The girl version of that would be that he told me he loved me at Centennial Park; and then he took me back there for lunch, and we were having my favorite lunch. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI <em>love<\/em> root beer, and I loved this particular place\u2019s tea cake cookies. You know, he has my two best friends hiding in the bushes\u2014one\u2019s filming \/ one\u2019s taking still images. He goes into the speech and gets up on one knee. I start crying and say, \u201cYes!\u201d about 19 times; and then they come running out. It\u2019s fantastic \/ it was absolutely perfect.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, everything a single woman would want in terms of a proposal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Yes; yes. He\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Way to go, Jeremy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s\u2014yes; her story\u2019s much better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; well, the tea cake cookies\u2014that\u2019s a good move on your part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, how long were you married before you sensed that there were difficulties or challenges?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>I would say, for me, I noticed difficulties about six weeks before the bottom fell out. I was very, very unaware\u2014so eleven years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Eleven years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you would say the first eleven years were smooth sailing? You guys got along fine; everything was good?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>I thought it was <em>awesome<\/em>; and at the same time, we had three children, back to back, so I was kind of in survival mode. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJeremy was very constant about wanting me to keep being creative\u2014like, \u201cHey, get a babysitter today and just go song-write.\u201d I would feel guilty about that\u2014I felt like I had to stay home, and be mom, and\u2026 \u201cWell, let\u2019s hire a house-keeper then.\u201d \u201cNo; I can\u2019t do that. I need to be the one who cleans.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe and I both were raised by stay-at-home moms, who did all of that. I felt like I had to do all of that, not realizing that I was losing myself. I had this image of post-partum depression\u2014as a woman who doesn\u2019t get out of bed and who cries all day. I had to get out of bed, and I didn\u2019t have time to cry all day\u2014so, in my brain: \u201cI\u2019m not depressed.\u201d But I <em>was<\/em>\u2014I was absolutely depressed and overwhelmed\u2014and couldn\u2019t verbalize it \/ couldn\u2019t own it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, in my brain, I thought: \u201cWell, this is just for a season. They\u2019ll eventually go to the bathroom on a toilet, and they will eventually eat adult food, and they will eventually be able to all walk, and\u2014\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cand dress themselves.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cand dress themselves!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Thankfully; they do now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>Yes; thankfully, they do now. But it\u2019s\u2014you know: \u201cThey\u2019ll eventually be able to do that. So this is just for a season; because this is my best friend\u2014he\u2019s not going anywhere.\u201d I\u2019m probably a little snippy, and I\u2019m probably a little grumpy. I\u2019m a little more selfish than usual. I\u2019m a little more unavailable\u2014I\u2019m a little less intimate \/ I\u2019m a little\u2014you know\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t feel as pretty right now,\u201d\u2014just all of those different elements. I thought, \u201cWe\u2019ll get through this\u201d; because, in my brain, \u201cWe will <em>never<\/em> split up.\u201d I sort of took advantage of that hope that that would never happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And what were you thinking at that same time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>I was thinking: \u201cI\u2019m overwhelmed. I\u2019m doing a lot on my own,\u201d\u2014and that my wife felt like she was really depressed and she felt like\u2014I would do my best to try to make a situation better and sort of have a positive attitude about things. But the entire time, I was setting up this wall of like\u2014\u201cI\u2019m the one doing this, and I\u2019m the one doing that,\u201d\u2014and sort of making myself an island and saying: \u201cHere\u2019s what I\u2019m doing to take care of the problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBut yet, I feel like I\u2019m not making any progress here.\u201d I sort of felt like I was the one handling most of the burden; although Tiffany would have said she was handling the children and the burden <em>there<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>And he didn\u2019t feel like he could tell me that, because I was a loose cannon. I mean, he could pull in the driveway from work\u2014and if he was 15 minutes late, it was 15 minutes more that I had to handle all of this by myself. He would walk in the door; and instead of being like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m so glad you\u2019re home,\u201d I would be like, \u201cWhere have you been?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \u201cI remember\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t want to put words in your mouth\u2014but he says he remembers pulling in the driveway and just not wanting to come inside\u2014of just: \u201cWhat kind of mood is she in? What have I done wrong this time?\u201d So being afraid to tell me: \u201cI don\u2019t like being around you right now. I feel disconnected from you. I don\u2019t feel\u2026\u201d\u2014you know, whatever it was he was feeling. He felt like any of that would have just set me off and made things even worse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>And I just was at that place, where I\u2019m saying, \u201cOkay.\u201d There were times that you\u2019d walk in and it was <em>great<\/em>\u2014everything was wonderful, and there was a good attitude. But there were a <em>lot<\/em> of times that that wasn\u2019t, and it got to where I just started disconnecting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to say, first of all, that none of that should have been what should have happened. I should have addressed it\u2014we should have gone to counseling \/ we should have talked about it with people\u2014I didn\u2019t do that. I don\u2019t know why I didn\u2019t\u2014you know, I don\u2019t know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tiffany: <\/strong>We\u2019ve talked about my reaction would have been not as receptive as it should have been. I definitely think\u2014had he taken me aside and said what he needed to say, I would have probably disagreed with him. I would have probably accused him of being unaware of: \u201cDo you realize how many diapers I change?\u201d and \u201c\u2026how many children I\u2019m feeding?\u201d and \u201cI don\u2019t have any time for myself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time, I think there was resentment from me towards him because I <em>knew<\/em>\u2014if I asked for someone to clean the house, or if I had asked for someone to watch the kids, or if I had asked to just spend the time doing some musical\u2014he would have been the first person in line to say: \u201cGo! Do it!\u201d because he knew how that makes me feel; and consequently, how I act accordingly to that. So it\u2019s just\u2014my response to that is\u2014I\u2019m a lot more fulfilled, I\u2019m a lot happier, and I\u2019m probably more pleasant to be around.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was like his subtle way of, \u201cMan, I really wish you\u2019d get out of the house.\u201d In my brain, I was saying: \u201cThat\u2019s like trying to defer my responsibilities to someone else. My responsibility is <em>here<\/em>. I need to be with these children, and I need to be the one\u2014I don\u2019t want a babysitter. I want to be able to do it myself.\u201d At the same time, I <em>needed<\/em> a babysitter; and I needed a housekeeper. It\u2019s taken years for me to be able to come to a place where I realize, sometimes, that is not financially feasible for some\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but if it is\u2014or at any point, even just once in a while\u2014to ask for help, to ask for childcare, and to ask for someone to help you in various different ways. It\u2019s <em>so<\/em> important, and you don\u2019t realize you\u2019re drowning. You just don\u2019t, and I didn\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You have to think there are a lot of people, listening right now\u2014and some of them are unaware, but some are very aware\u2014that there\u2019s low-level frustration that marriage is not where they\u2019d hoped it would be \/ that they\u2019re not at the place that they long to be, as a couple; but they\u2019re afraid to confront it. They\u2019re afraid to talk to one another about it. They just don\u2019t know what to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And as in raising children, the same thing\u2019s true in a marriage: \u201cThe easiest thing to do is nothing, because it doesn\u2019t create conflict at the moment.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t want to feel like I\u2019m piling on you, Jeremy, at this point; but would you say you were fairly passive then, as a husband, around these issues?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Yes; I was. I was just\u2014I didn\u2019t want to rock the boat.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And see, I think that\u2019s what I want the listeners to hear, especially the husbands. You know, you don\u2019t have all the answers to step into the midst of the mud puddle and say: \u201cSomething\u2019s not going on here that\u2019s right. We need to have a heart-to-heart\u2014we need to have a conversation.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd okay; so it gets messy. Okay; so your wife doesn\u2019t like it that you step off in the mud puddle and ask for some definition of what\u2019s going on and \u201cUnpack what you\u2019re feeling and what\u2019s taking place.\u201d I think, a lot of times, guys don\u2019t step forward because they don\u2019t know exactly what to do. They want to fix it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>Right. I was going to say\u2014we\u2019re fixers. I want to fix everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And if you don\u2019t know how to fix it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeremy: <\/strong>\u2014then you don\u2019t want to go there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; so the easiest thing to do is <em>nothing<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you\u2019re saying a husband ought to just stand up and say, \u201cOkay; I don\u2019t know how to fix this, but something\u2019s wrong and we need help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I just want to go over to Ephesians 5 and just mention a couple of words, where it commands the husband to nourish and cherish his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNourish means to cause to grow. At this point, Tiffany, you needed to grow out of a season of life\u2014have some hope \/ some freshness in your life. It means to cultivate a sense of growth. That means you have to go where you may not know how to answer that question. You many need a third party to help at some point\u2014a counselor or a conference like the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other thing a husband is commanded to do is\u2014he\u2019s commanded to cherish his wife. That means to love her in such a way\u2014and Tiffany, you said this\u2014you weren\u2019t sure you would have heard what he said \/ you weren\u2019t sure you would have received it. It didn\u2019t sound, to me, like you had a teachable heart\u2014you were kind of becoming hardened a bit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the assignment of a husband is to be such a student of his wife that he knows how to love her in such a way that it will soften her heart. That\u2019s what the word, \u201ccherish,\u201d means\u2014it means to soften it \/ to make it receptive so it can grow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and again, I think for a man to hear us say: \u201cYou may not know the right thing to do; but if you sense something\u2019s wrong, just stand up and say: \u2018Hang on. Something\u2019s wrong here. I\u2019m not sure exactly what it is. I\u2019m not sure how to fix it, but I <em>know<\/em> that just letting it be is not the right answer. So let\u2019s put our heads together, let\u2019s pray together, let\u2019s seek help, let\u2019s get counsel, and let\u2019s talk to some friends; because we can\u2019t stay here.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And \u201cLet\u2019s go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> together.\u201d You know, I just have to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I knew you would recommend that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I have to recommend it, because we\u2019ve been doing this for 40 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And more than three million people have been through all of our marriage conferences and events. We\u2019ve been working to make the Bible plain and clear about how a husband needs to be a husband. A lot of times, there are guys like Jeremy\u2014and he\u2019s nodding his head now\u2014they want to do what\u2019s right \/ they\u2019re just not sure how to step forward and how to provide solutions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo if you don\u2019t know what to do, find a way to get away for a weekend\u2014find a babysitter and spend a weekend at one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways in one of 85 locations [fall and spring] around the country. I promise you\u2014you\u2019re going to hear the blueprints; you\u2019re going to hear a new assignment, as a husband \/ as a wife; and in some cases, find your way out of a deep ditch.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and of course, if you sign up before the end of the weekend, you save \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t50 percent off the regular registration fee\u2014we have a buy one\/get one offer going on right now\u2014you pay the regular rate for yourself; your spouse comes free. That offer is good through the end of the weekend. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to register, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to register. Again, the website\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Plan to join us at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway this fall.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhile you\u2019re on our website, look for information about the book that Plumb has written\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it\u2019s called <em>Need You Now: A Story of Hope<\/em>. It tells the story that we\u2019re sharing this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. This may be a book that you want to get and pass on to somebody who is out of hope for their marriage. You can order from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. We also have copies of Plumb\u2019s new audio CD called <em>Need You<\/em> <em>Now<\/em>\u2014a great music CD. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order your copy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we want to say \u201cHappy 20<sup>th<\/sup> anniversary!\u201d today to Ken and Susan Reich, who live in Arlington, Tennessee. They got married on this day in 1996. In fact, they joined us a couple of years ago on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise\u2014\u201cHappy anniversary!\u201d to Ken and Susan\u2014and to all the rest of you, who are celebrating anniversaries today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe think anniversaries matter. Here, at FamilyLife, we\u2019re celebrating anniversaries all year long; because this is our 40th anniversary as a ministry\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we\u2019ve been celebrating that all year long as well. We\u2019re really thanking God for His work through FamilyLife over the last four decades and thanking listeners, like you, who help support this ministry, for making it all possible. We could not do what we do if it weren\u2019t for folks, like you, contributing financially to support what we do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation today, we\u2019d like to say a big \u201cThank you!\u201d by sending you our 2017 FamilyLife calendar. It\u2019s all about how you can be an ambassador for Christ and how your home can be an embassy for the King\u2014something we\u2019ve talked about recently, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. That calendar actually starts with October of 2016; so when you get it, you can put it right to use. And again, we want to say, \u201cThanks for your support of this ministry.\u201d Make your donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FLTODAY to donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr request the calendar when you mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBox 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about the moment in time when Tiffany Lee \/ when Plumb first realized that her marriage really was in serious trouble. We\u2019ll hear that story tomorrow. Hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304170","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304170"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304170"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304170"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304170"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304170"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304170"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304170"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}