{"id":304084,"date":"2016-07-14T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2016-07-14T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/vying-for-control\/"},"modified":"2016-07-14T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2016-07-14T15:00:00","slug":"vying-for-control","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/vying-for-control\/","title":{"rendered":"Vying for Control"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>At home, who gets their way most of the time? Is it you or your spouse? Author Karen Ehman and Nicole Unice share from their life experiences of letting go of control.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-07-14.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"26.36M","filesize_raw":"27641991","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2838,2831,2093],"tags":[5998,6038,4584,6039,4251],"podcast_series":[7981],"cwp_profile":[3311,9323],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304084","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mothers","category-wives","category-women","tag-control-freak","tag-control-your-husband","tag-fear","tag-let-your-husband-lead","tag-pride","podcast_series-letting-go-of-control","cwp_profile-karen-ehman","cwp_profile-nicole-unice","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304084\/vying-for-control","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304084\/vying-for-control","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"k4XfzOrSqC\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/vying-for-control\/\">Vying for Control<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/vying-for-control\/embed\/#?secret=k4XfzOrSqC\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Vying for Control&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"k4XfzOrSqC\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-07-14.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-07-14.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you think it\u2019s possible you might have some control issues in your life? Nicole Unice says, \u201cIf you\u2019ve ever been a passenger in a car and felt this way, then, maybe, you do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> \u201cAre you serious right now? Are you really going 44? Like you could, at least, go 52 on this road, if the speed limit is 45, and we\u2019re going to be late!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it\u2019s fueling that feeling rising up in you: \u201cOkay, you\u2019re not driving fast enough. Why can\u2019t you drive a little faster? I\u2019m about to press your leg down onto the gas pedal because you clearly could go faster than this. You\u2019re not going fast\u2014so, we\u2019re not going to be on time. When we\u2019re not on time, I don\u2019t like that because I like to keep it together. I like to keep it together because I like people to like me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, July 14<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. So, where is the line between pursuing excellence, wanting to be conscientious, and starting to become a little controlling? We\u2019re going to look at that today. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. As I\u2019ve talked to men over the years, I have pointed out that, for most men, it seems like there are three issues that tend to be issues over which we stumble. Sex is one of them. Power is one of them, and money is one of them; okay? When I\u2019ve talked to women, over the years\u2014after I have prayed a lot\u2014I\u2019ve suggested that there might be three issues that women regularly stumble over.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Do you want me to come up with my own list?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, do you have your own list for the three?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> I want my own list too! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, of course, you do [Laughter] because you\u2019re a control freak!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly right! And I\u2019m sure mine will be right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let\u2019s see\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> No, mine will be right! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Stop it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Ours will be right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Ours will be right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let\u2019s see if you agree with the three that I come up with. Do you have your three?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got two of the three. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you have your three? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019ll have the other shortly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you, ladies, have your three?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy three are these: food, beauty, and control. Those are my three. Were those\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Nice. I\u2019m not going with mine yet. [Laughter] I want to introduce our guests so there\u2019s a name attached to the opinion here. Nicole Unice and Karen Ehman join us on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Karen, Nicole, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Thank you. We\u2019re glad to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Karen is a writer who lives in Central Michigan with her husband and her family. Nicole lives in Richmond, Virginia, and has three children. Both have written books. Nicole has written a book called <em>She\u2019s Got Issues, <\/em>which is about the subject of control.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, the subtitle here is <em>Seriously Good News for Stressed-out, Secretly Scared Control Freaks like Us.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Karen has written a book called <em>Let. It. Go.<\/em>; subtitled: <em>How to Stop Running the Show and Start Walking in Faith<\/em>. I really like that\u2014that\u2019s clever \/ that\u2019s good. So, Karen\u2014what\u2019s your list?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> I would say appearance\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s the beauty part I was saying.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Yes; and it is food and beauty together\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; that\u2019s a good point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> \u2014because the food comes out in your appearance\u2014if you eat too much of it. So, I would say appearance, and I would say relationships and control.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. What do you think, Nicole? Was she right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Yes, I am little more in line with Karen. I would say, at the heart of it, I think that women want to be adored or sort of worshiped. So, that is\u2014usually, in our culture, that is beauty and appearance; control, which is kind of fear and pride; and relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Ours was right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> I know! We were right. So, you need to change your mind. Both of you guys\u2014change your mind right now! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We haven\u2019t heard Dennis\u2019s yet, so\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, mine was kind of a spoof, I have to confess. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What\u2019s yours?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Shoes, shopping, and shows. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to go to you, Karen, and just talk about a guy you met, when you were a single woman, named Foxy Todd. [Laughter] Tell us about Foxy Todd and how Foxy Todd helped you get in touch with how you are a control freak.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Yes; Foxy Todd Ehman was a transfer student at my university when I was a junior. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe had a chiseled physique, and gorgeous auburn hair, and beautiful green eyes that reminded me of the glassy sea. I set my heart upon\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Is this a romance novel?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> No, that\u2019s my husband!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It sounds like Fabio or something! [Laughter] Like some kind of cover for a romance novel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> How did you know he had a chiseled physique?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Because he had on a tank top in the dining commons; okay? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Foxy Todd. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Foxy Todd\u2014his name actually means fox, and I\u2019m letting my 80\u2019s roots show here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyhow, I knew the minute I met him that I wanted to marry him. In fact, I went home and wrote in my Bible that I had met the man I was going to marry. Now, he didn\u2019t really give me the time of day for a couple of years other than being a friend, but he soon came to that conclusion too. We did get married and walked down the aisle and into wedded bliss\u2014\u201chappily ever after.\u201d But it wasn\u2019t so \"happily ever after\" after all because of our personalities. They just really clashed!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, we joke, often\u2014that if we were dating in the day and age where they had these internet\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> \u2014places that match you up \/ you know, these online dating services\u2014I\u2019m sure if we both went in and crafted our profiles, it would put a bright, red blinking warning on our screen that said: \u201cDo NOT date. You are totally incompatible.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> e-Disharmony, right there. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> e-Disharmony\u2014there you go! But it\u2019s been quite a struggle through our marriage to really go to God. As hard as it is, sometimes\u2014to meld those personalities, and to make our marriage work, and to make our marriage biblical\u2014we know that the <em>reason<\/em> for this is so that God gets the glory. It\u2019s not just because we are so compatible. We just enjoy\u2014I mean, we enjoy spending time together; but our personalities clash \/ the way we do things clashes\u2014just about everything between us clashes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, but that wasn\u2019t the way your relationship started out when you courted? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> No, no!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I mean, he went out of his way to <em>totally<\/em> please you and win you over. Then, you got married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What happened after you got married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> In our courting days, I loved the fact that he was so laid-back and easygoing. I didn\u2019t know a single person that didn\u2019t think Todd Ehman was just the most wonderful guy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know anybody that doesn\u2019t like my husband. He was so agreeable about where we were going to go or what movie we were going to see: \u201cI don\u2019t care. You pick!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cWhatever you want, Sweetheart.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> \u201cWhatever you want, Honey!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> I loved that setup! I was pretty decisive and pretty much knew what I wanted and how I wanted to get things done. I loved his laid-back personality. He loved the way I got things done. He especially loved the way I could talk\u2014he\u2019s a little quieter. But about three days into our marriage, he finally had this thought: \u201cWhen is she ever going to shut up?\u201d because I just kept talking, and talking, and talking. In fact, he says he\u2019s going to put a period on my tombstone because I\u2019m finally done talking! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy strength of talking came out in a weakness of over-talking. His strength of being agreeable and laid-back came out in passivity. When you think about your upbringing and how that comes into your marriage\u2014I grew up in a single-parent home. I saw my mom do everything. There was not a dad in the picture. So, she brought home the bacon, fried it up in the pan, fixed things\u2014did everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought that was just how you did things!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy husband grew up in a family\u2014although, his parents had a great marriage and were married for 53 years\u2014where it was pretty much that the dad was kind of passive and the mom kind of was in control. So, he just thought it was natural to just kind of sit there, and take a back seat, and let the woman do everything. I wasn\u2019t used to seeing a dad in the home\u2014so I just thought the woman did everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt set up a lot of tension in our marriage because we weren\u2019t a partnership. We weren\u2019t trying to do things according to who had a good strength or whatever. We were just doing things according to how I thought they should be done. I wanted him to get with my program!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, Nicole, we talk a lot about passivity being a root issue for men. I\u2019m just wondering if that fuels the urge to control in a woman?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I mean, if a guy\u2019s just saying, \u201cWhatever,\u201d doesn\u2019t a woman just say: \u201cOkay. I\u2019ll take over\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Absolutely. Well, the big therapy word for this\u2014that you\u2019ve probably talked about before\u2014is the pursuer-distancer dynamic.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want you to know, \u201cWe\u2019ve been on the radio 20 years\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; we\u2019ve never\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Come on!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014\u2014\u201cwe have never used that word before.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Let me enlighten you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Is that one word or three?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> It is three words. It\u2019s a little thing we talk about in counseling\u2014the pursuer-distancer dynamic\u2014which is this: \u201cIf you have a friend who pursues you, most likely, you\u2019re going to pull away. If they\u2019re overbearing with the way that they come at you, you\u2019re likely to pull away. If you\u2019re a person who pulls away, you\u2019re most likely to have a dynamic where someone comes at you because of the way you pull way.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe technique and tip, if you\u2019re in that dynamic\u2014most of us are one or the other\u2014we\u2019re either the person who pulls away, or we\u2019re the person who pursues. It\u2019s sort of that fight or flight. What do you do in conflict? Do you pull away or do you pursue? The little tip, from marriage counseling, is: \u201cIf you know that you\u2019re the person who is a distancer, the best way to be in relationship with the other person is to pursue them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, for me, this played out in finances with my husband. My husband is very conscientious\u2014he is budget-driven. His grandfather taught him everything about how to run a family. His grandfather grew up in the Depression era. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe is <em>very <\/em>serious about the way that you save money\u2014which I very much appreciate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI grew up in a family where my dad was pretty faith-driven when it came to money\u2014a risk-taker\u2014not afraid to spend \/ not afraid to sort of figure things out as we went\u2014it always worked out. We always had enough. I lived in that sort of freedom when it came to finances\u2014probably, too much when it played out in my own life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy husband and I would absolutely butt heads about saving, about spending, about giving\u2014which, I think, is one of the main things that couples fight about. I would be so frustrated at how much he wanted to manage me, and he would be so frustrated that I seemed to care so little. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, one time, I was thinking about this pursuer-distancer. I realized that one of the best things I could do for my husband is be more concerned about our finances because, then, I\u2019m coming towards him. I remember coming to a place where I said: \u201cYou know what? I do get worried, and I don\u2019t know exactly how this is all going to work out. You\u2019re right. I never think about how we\u2019re going to pay for college, and that does worry me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said that to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDo you know what he said? He came to me: \u201cDon\u2019t worry. It\u2019s all going to work out \/ it\u2019s going to be okay,\u201d\u2014he had always been the worrier\u2014when I walked toward him rather than pulling away. So, he would be more and more worried, and I would be more and more frustrated: \u201cStop worrying so much! Stop worrying so much!\u201d He would be <em>more <\/em>worried because I was worried <em>less<\/em>\u2014instead of us trying to come to the middle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, it occurs to me, that in moving toward him, you respected him as a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You respected a strength he had instead of pulling away and taking flight from leadership he was trying to give your family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were talking about this issue of respect. It brings up a story you share in your book, Nicole, which is actually the opposite of what goes on in our car. In our car, Mary Ann will sometimes flinch at the aggressive way that I tend to drive. [Laughter] You were actually\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Bob\u2014Bob, I flinch. It\u2019s not Mary Ann. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> He\u2019s not taking us to the airport; is he? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He isn\u2019t! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Aggressive driving is a healthy pattern\u2014I\u2019m convinced of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> I appreciate that, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were actually getting onto your husband because he was going too slowly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Now, let me say\u2014that was an internal conversation \/ that was not an external conversation. That was what was going on in my mind as the frustration meter\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You hadn\u2019t articulated that yet?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> No, it was the frustration meter going up. You know, you\u2019re sitting in the passenger [seat], tapping your finger: \u201cAre you serious? Are you serious right now? Are you really going 44? Like you could, at least, go 52 on this road, if the speed limit is 45, and we\u2019re going to be late!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it\u2019s fueling that feeling rising up in you. I like to try to be a scientist of my own behavior. I love to help women and men <em>think<\/em> about what they\u2019re doing. That story about us driving down this road to our church is that feeling of: \u201cLet me really get into what was going on in my head.\u201d Okay; \u201cYou\u2019re not driving fast enough. Why can\u2019t you drive a little faster? I\u2019m about to press your leg down onto the gas pedal because you clearly could go faster than this, and you\u2019re not going fast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe\u2019re not going to be on time. When we\u2019re not on time, I don\u2019t like that because I like to keep it together. I like to keep it together because I like <em>people to like me<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> \u201cI like to be perfect.\u201d Then, you really are getting at the heart of it. Now, the heart of it is completely self-centered. There is nothing in that about me loving my husband, respecting my family, caring about him, at all. At the heart and root of it, it was really about me; but I could have deceived myself to believe that it was about my family\/ it was about my children: \u201cThe kids don\u2019t want to be late to Sunday school.\u201d I could have said a whole lot of things that wouldn\u2019t have actually been true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt says in Jeremiah 17:9 that \u201cThe heart is deceitful beyond all cure. Who can understand it?\u201d If you believe that the Bible is really real and that it really is speaking to you, you can go ahead and put your name in that verse: \u201cNicole is deceitful beyond all cure,\u201d\u2014to think I can deceive myself into believing that what I\u2019m doing has a good purpose if I\u2019m not slowing down, and opening up, and allowing the Lord to be the One who searches my heart and tells me who I really am. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat little tiny exercise is an expression of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, at some level, the passenger seat of a car is the ultimate place where control issues start to emerge; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Oh, yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> And a lot of prayer happens! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Yes. I haven\u2019t taught any kids to drive yet. So, Karen will have to tell us about that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Oh, believe me\u2014I\u2019ve got my youngest right now. That\u2019s why I had to touch my gray up before I came here\u2014[Laughter]\u2014even though this is radio and not TV.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Whether it\u2019s \u201cYou\u2019re going too fast,\u201d or \u201cYou\u2019re going too slow,\u201d it\u2019s the fact that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Or \u201cYou should have parked over here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014somebody else is driving. It drives you a little nuts; doesn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It starts to get to the root of the issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, last night, you and Mary Ann and Barbara and I had dinner together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right. So, I\u2019d shoulder surgery. I could have driven; but my arm was hurting, and it had been a full day. I said: \u201cYou know what? You can just drive us just a few miles down the road to where Bob, Mary Ann, and I are going to have dinner together.\u201d As Barbara pulls into the parking lot, we\u2019re a few minutes late. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m sitting over in the passenger seat. This is kind of funny, Nicole, because she will tell me:\u201cYou should have parked here. Why are you doing that?\u201d So, she turned in. I said, \u201cYou know, you could have turned in up here.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, I did! I did. It was all teasing to her\u2014I was totally teasing her. She goes, \u201cYes, but I told you I was going to turn in here.\u201d [Laughter] Then, I teased her a second time. She said, \u201cYou can tease me once, but not twice.\u201d She said, \u201cI get it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSeriously, here\u2019s the question for you both\u2014I\u2019d like you to take a crack at this\u2014there may be a woman listening, right now\u2014she is out of touch with how she is a controller. It may be that she\u2019s hearing but not hearing. It may be that her husband is listening and he is saying, \u201cYou know, I think they\u2019re describing my wife; but I don\u2019t think\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI can say anything about that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes. In that marriage, what do they do? I\u2019m really asking two questions here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst of all, for the woman who\u2019s listening but not hearing; and then, secondly, what does the husband do to\u2014not condemn his wife, or judge his wife, or point out her sin\u2014but to help her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> I think, for the woman, she needs to really drill down deeper to the issue and not just try to answer the question: \u201cAm I a control freak?\u201d because most women will say, \u201cNo; I\u2019m not a control freak,\u201d because they instantly, in their mind, can think of someone who\u2019s more controlling than them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> So, by comparison, they\u2019re not control freaks. But I like to ask women this: \u201cAre you trying to do a job with excellence, <em>or<\/em> are you trying to fix the outcome?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we\u2019re tackling tasks in our lives and roles that we have and doing them well, that\u2019s okay. But ask yourself, \u201cAm I really trying to manipulate the outcome?\u201d\u2014whether it\u2019s a child who tries out for a sports team \/ and if they don\u2019t make it, am I going to march down to that school and stomp my little high heels and say, \u201cWhy isn\u2019t Johnny on the team?\u201d or am I going to step back and let the child learn a lesson by not playing a sport that year?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAm I trying to fix outcomes? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAm I trying to get people to revisit issues? Am I trying to manipulate what actually happens? Or am I just trying to do my job with excellence? I know, for me, that\u2019s when I can tell I\u2019m crossing the line between being conscientious and being controlling. So, a woman can ask herself that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut for a husband to kind of approach this subject with his wife, it\u2019s touchy because you don\u2019t want to feel like you are putting a label on and you\u2019re calling names. I don\u2019t think I would address it in her entire personality\u2014like: \u201cI just think you have control issues, Honey.\u201d Maybe, I would choose a particular issue that\u2019s on the table, right now, in their marriage and talk more from the back door\u2014not: \u201cAre you controlling?\u201d or \u201cI think you\u2019re controlling,\u201d\u2014but: \u201cAre you trusting God? Are we trusting God in this issue?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMaybe, explore the whole journey with the Lord, in this certain issue: \u201cAre we going to trust Him? What is He trying to teach us? How are we hearing from the Holy Spirit?\u201d Tackle the process of learning in those different issues of life rather than just kind of approach the subject in such a way that sounds like you\u2019re calling names or you are accusing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Nicole?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> I would say that true growth doesn\u2019t happen until you\u2019re ready for it. Many people can listen to all kinds of things\u2014all kinds of sermons and read books\u2014and not take it in for themselves. So, you may not be ready to address the issue or not sure that it applies to you; but the question is: \u201cAre you willing to pray a bold prayer that you are asking the Lord to search your heart? \/ \u2018God, would You search my heart and reveal any way in me that is not from You?\u2019\u201d That is a bold prayer because I believe that\u2019s a prayer that God wants to answer!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHow are you really loving people?\u201d because Jesus did say that people will know you by the way that you love one another. \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d If you have an issue with every person in your life\u2014you are the common denominator in those relationships\u2014it\u2019s you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor a husband, I would say that prayer is a huge one. Have you actually, intentionally, prayed for your wife? A lot of us talk about doing but don\u2019t actually do it. What would it be like to say\u2014let\u2019s say take something that is realistic\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201414 days: \u201cCan you pray for your wife for 14 days straight?\u2014that the Lord would reveal this issue in her life? Would you pray that God would give you a heart for that woman, that is looking out because of the way that you love her\u2014not because you want to stop dealing with this problem\u2014but because you <em>love her so much<\/em> that you want to see her flourish and be free of something that is hindering her?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod does such a work in our heart when we pray for people. He gives us a spirit of love for them. When you address issues with people, out of a real heart of love for them, it comes across completely differently. I think of a husband saying to his wife: \u201cYou seem so not at peace. What is happening with you?\u201d or \u201cAre you happy? Are you really happy?\u201d\u2014just trying to get at the heart of what\u2019s really going on in her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s so brilliant, Nicole, because I feel like\u2014in the women I\u2019ve observed and in my own life\u2014if I feel like my husband\u2019s just trying to \u201cfix\u201d me, then, I just bristle, and I back away. I think a woman needs to hear\u2014not \u201cHey, I\u2019m trying to fix you,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but \u201cHey, I hear you. I hear what\u2019s going on.\u201d Maybe, that will help get to the root of <em>why <\/em>she\u2019s controlling: \u201cWhat\u2019s going on? What anxiousness does she have in her heart?\u201d Rather than trying to fix her, try to hear her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Nicole, has your husband ever taken you aside and said, \u201cSweetheart, are you happy?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Yes; he has. I think that he\u2019s taught me more about sort of a spirit of authentic safety. To your point, Dennis, I love what we talked about earlier\u2014saying to a woman, \u201cI want you to feel safe,\u201d\u2014you know, trying to understand her deepest felt-needs and meeting her in those. So, for him to say: \u201cI believe in you and all that God\u2019s made you to be. How can I help you to get there? Can I help you when you\u2019re frustrated in this place?\u201d\u2014to sort of affirm truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat comes\u2014this is going to be 16 years of marriage\u2014we got married when we were just baby babies. So, we\u2019ve gone through a lot of hard times. At year one or two, or even seven or eight, that\u2019s not the man that Dave was yet. I certainly wasn\u2019t the woman, then, that I am trying to be now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat maturity is something that makes you appreciate and love your spouse so much. It comes over time; it doesn\u2019t come in year one or two\u2014it\u2019s over time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Karen\u2014has Foxy Todd ever taken you aside and said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Actually, Foxy Todd is wonderful at getting to the heart of issues. He doesn\u2019t often ask me, \u201cHey, what\u2019s going on in your life?\u201d He often asks me and my children, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on in your heart?\u201d He knows what\u2019s going on in my life. All he has to do is walk over to my desk and look at my day planner and know what deadlines I have and what speaking engagements I have and all of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> He knows what\u2019s going on in my life; but he\u2019ll ask, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on in your heart?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven with our kids, sometimes, when we\u2019ve gotten into discipline issues with them\u2014and I\u2019m the \u201cfreak out\u201d mom: \u201cWhat are the church ladies going to think!?\u201d\u2014I want to fix the issue of the behavior. He\u2019ll take them aside and say, \u201cJust tell me what\u2019s going on in your heart.\u201d I think that really helps a woman to open up and feel that safe place that she can share with him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I really like what we\u2019ve talked about here\u2014your idea of a bold prayer. I think that <em>is<\/em> the place to start because Jesus Christ left the planet to send the Holy Spirit to teach us, convict us, and instruct us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe\u2019s fully capable\u2014God\u2019s fully capable of doing His job.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second thing\u2014and we scooted by it pretty quickly\u2014is the idea of loving well. I think one of the ways I might encourage a woman\u2014or, for that matter, a man\u2014who needs to pray the bold prayer of: \u201cGod, would You show me if I\u2019m a control freak \/ if I\u2019m trying to control others?\u201d is to take a step back and look at how you impact people around accomplishing the objective: \u201cHow do your children suffer? How does your marriage suffer\u2014your husband suffer \/ your family\u2014because you\u2019re trying to manage an image or perfection or some kind of phantom?\u201d I promise you\u2014if the task is more important than people, that doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re a control freak; but it may be a symptom of something going on in the heart that does need to be dealt with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If your pursuit of perfection and control is bigger than your concern about the relationships you\u2019re involved with, that\u2019s a symptom; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And both of you ladies outline a number of the symptoms of control, and you help ladies understand how to diagnose and how to deal with this issue in the books you\u2019ve written. One is called <em>She\u2019s Got Issues: Seriously Good News for Stressed-out, Secretly Scared Control Freaks like Us. <\/em>That\u2019s the book by Nicole Unice. The other is called <em>Let. It. Go.: How to Stop Running the Show and Start Walking in Faith.<\/em> That\u2019s the book by Karen Ehman.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have both books in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. You can order from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Just go to the website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order these books\u20141-800-FL-TODAY is the number\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, in a very real sense, what we do, here at FamilyLife, we could not do without listeners who are more than just listeners\u2014those of you who, not only tune in and listen, but who take the next step\u2014who get in touch with us, let us know that you\u2019re listening and that you believe in what we\u2019re doing, and that you want to see it continue. You are the guys who make <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>possible; and we appreciate your partnership with us, here at this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, your financial support helps us cover the costs of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. So, can I encourage you\u2014if you\u2019ve never gotten in touch with us to let us know that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and that it\u2019s making a difference in your marriage and in your family, we\u2019d love to hear from you. You can donate to support this ministry, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can make a donation over the phone when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY; or you can mail your donation to us, if you\u2019d prefer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur mailing address is PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we are going to talk about how trying to be a controlling perfectionist can kill you\u2014it really can. We\u2019re going to talk about how you deal with that and the whole issue of grace. Our guests, Nicole Unice and Karen Ehman, are going to be back. I hope you can be back with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.36M"],"filesize_raw":["27641991"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304084.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304084.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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home, who gets their way most of the time? Is it you or your spouse? Author Karen Ehman and Nicole Unice share from their life experiences of letting go of control.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-07-14.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you think it\u2019s possible you might have some control issues in your life? Nicole Unice says, \u201cIf you\u2019ve ever been a passenger in a car and felt this way, then, maybe, you do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> \u201cAre you serious right now? Are you really going 44? Like you could, at least, go 52 on this road, if the speed limit is 45, and we\u2019re going to be late!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it\u2019s fueling that feeling rising up in you: \u201cOkay, you\u2019re not driving fast enough. Why can\u2019t you drive a little faster? I\u2019m about to press your leg down onto the gas pedal because you clearly could go faster than this. You\u2019re not going fast\u2014so, we\u2019re not going to be on time. When we\u2019re not on time, I don\u2019t like that because I like to keep it together. I like to keep it together because I like people to like me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, July 14<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. So, where is the line between pursuing excellence, wanting to be conscientious, and starting to become a little controlling? We\u2019re going to look at that today. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. As I\u2019ve talked to men over the years, I have pointed out that, for most men, it seems like there are three issues that tend to be issues over which we stumble. Sex is one of them. Power is one of them, and money is one of them; okay? When I\u2019ve talked to women, over the years\u2014after I have prayed a lot\u2014I\u2019ve suggested that there might be three issues that women regularly stumble over.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Do you want me to come up with my own list?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, do you have your own list for the three?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> I want my own list too! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, of course, you do [Laughter] because you\u2019re a control freak!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly right! And I\u2019m sure mine will be right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let\u2019s see\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> No, mine will be right! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Stop it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Ours will be right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Ours will be right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let\u2019s see if you agree with the three that I come up with. Do you have your three?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got two of the three. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you have your three? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019ll have the other shortly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you, ladies, have your three?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy three are these: food, beauty, and control. Those are my three. Were those\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Nice. I\u2019m not going with mine yet. [Laughter] I want to introduce our guests so there\u2019s a name attached to the opinion here. Nicole Unice and Karen Ehman join us on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Karen, Nicole, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Thank you. We\u2019re glad to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Karen is a writer who lives in Central Michigan with her husband and her family. Nicole lives in Richmond, Virginia, and has three children. Both have written books. Nicole has written a book called <em>She\u2019s Got Issues, <\/em>which is about the subject of control.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, the subtitle here is <em>Seriously Good News for Stressed-out, Secretly Scared Control Freaks like Us.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Karen has written a book called <em>Let. It. Go.<\/em>; subtitled: <em>How to Stop Running the Show and Start Walking in Faith<\/em>. I really like that\u2014that\u2019s clever \/ that\u2019s good. So, Karen\u2014what\u2019s your list?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> I would say appearance\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s the beauty part I was saying.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Yes; and it is food and beauty together\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; that\u2019s a good point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> \u2014because the food comes out in your appearance\u2014if you eat too much of it. So, I would say appearance, and I would say relationships and control.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. What do you think, Nicole? Was she right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Yes, I am little more in line with Karen. I would say, at the heart of it, I think that women want to be adored or sort of worshiped. So, that is\u2014usually, in our culture, that is beauty and appearance; control, which is kind of fear and pride; and relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Ours was right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> I know! We were right. So, you need to change your mind. Both of you guys\u2014change your mind right now! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We haven\u2019t heard Dennis\u2019s yet, so\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, mine was kind of a spoof, I have to confess. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What\u2019s yours?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Shoes, shopping, and shows. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to go to you, Karen, and just talk about a guy you met, when you were a single woman, named Foxy Todd. [Laughter] Tell us about Foxy Todd and how Foxy Todd helped you get in touch with how you are a control freak.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Yes; Foxy Todd Ehman was a transfer student at my university when I was a junior. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe had a chiseled physique, and gorgeous auburn hair, and beautiful green eyes that reminded me of the glassy sea. I set my heart upon\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Is this a romance novel?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> No, that\u2019s my husband!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It sounds like Fabio or something! [Laughter] Like some kind of cover for a romance novel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> How did you know he had a chiseled physique?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Because he had on a tank top in the dining commons; okay? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Foxy Todd. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Foxy Todd\u2014his name actually means fox, and I\u2019m letting my 80\u2019s roots show here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyhow, I knew the minute I met him that I wanted to marry him. In fact, I went home and wrote in my Bible that I had met the man I was going to marry. Now, he didn\u2019t really give me the time of day for a couple of years other than being a friend, but he soon came to that conclusion too. We did get married and walked down the aisle and into wedded bliss\u2014\u201chappily ever after.\u201d But it wasn\u2019t so \"happily ever after\" after all because of our personalities. They just really clashed!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, we joke, often\u2014that if we were dating in the day and age where they had these internet\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> \u2014places that match you up \/ you know, these online dating services\u2014I\u2019m sure if we both went in and crafted our profiles, it would put a bright, red blinking warning on our screen that said: \u201cDo NOT date. You are totally incompatible.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> e-Disharmony, right there. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> e-Disharmony\u2014there you go! But it\u2019s been quite a struggle through our marriage to really go to God. As hard as it is, sometimes\u2014to meld those personalities, and to make our marriage work, and to make our marriage biblical\u2014we know that the <em>reason<\/em> for this is so that God gets the glory. It\u2019s not just because we are so compatible. We just enjoy\u2014I mean, we enjoy spending time together; but our personalities clash \/ the way we do things clashes\u2014just about everything between us clashes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, but that wasn\u2019t the way your relationship started out when you courted? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> No, no!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I mean, he went out of his way to <em>totally<\/em> please you and win you over. Then, you got married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What happened after you got married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> In our courting days, I loved the fact that he was so laid-back and easygoing. I didn\u2019t know a single person that didn\u2019t think Todd Ehman was just the most wonderful guy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know anybody that doesn\u2019t like my husband. He was so agreeable about where we were going to go or what movie we were going to see: \u201cI don\u2019t care. You pick!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cWhatever you want, Sweetheart.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> \u201cWhatever you want, Honey!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> I loved that setup! I was pretty decisive and pretty much knew what I wanted and how I wanted to get things done. I loved his laid-back personality. He loved the way I got things done. He especially loved the way I could talk\u2014he\u2019s a little quieter. But about three days into our marriage, he finally had this thought: \u201cWhen is she ever going to shut up?\u201d because I just kept talking, and talking, and talking. In fact, he says he\u2019s going to put a period on my tombstone because I\u2019m finally done talking! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy strength of talking came out in a weakness of over-talking. His strength of being agreeable and laid-back came out in passivity. When you think about your upbringing and how that comes into your marriage\u2014I grew up in a single-parent home. I saw my mom do everything. There was not a dad in the picture. So, she brought home the bacon, fried it up in the pan, fixed things\u2014did everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought that was just how you did things!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy husband grew up in a family\u2014although, his parents had a great marriage and were married for 53 years\u2014where it was pretty much that the dad was kind of passive and the mom kind of was in control. So, he just thought it was natural to just kind of sit there, and take a back seat, and let the woman do everything. I wasn\u2019t used to seeing a dad in the home\u2014so I just thought the woman did everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt set up a lot of tension in our marriage because we weren\u2019t a partnership. We weren\u2019t trying to do things according to who had a good strength or whatever. We were just doing things according to how I thought they should be done. I wanted him to get with my program!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, Nicole, we talk a lot about passivity being a root issue for men. I\u2019m just wondering if that fuels the urge to control in a woman?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I mean, if a guy\u2019s just saying, \u201cWhatever,\u201d doesn\u2019t a woman just say: \u201cOkay. I\u2019ll take over\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Absolutely. Well, the big therapy word for this\u2014that you\u2019ve probably talked about before\u2014is the pursuer-distancer dynamic.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want you to know, \u201cWe\u2019ve been on the radio 20 years\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; we\u2019ve never\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Come on!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014\u2014\u201cwe have never used that word before.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Let me enlighten you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Is that one word or three?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> It is three words. It\u2019s a little thing we talk about in counseling\u2014the pursuer-distancer dynamic\u2014which is this: \u201cIf you have a friend who pursues you, most likely, you\u2019re going to pull away. If they\u2019re overbearing with the way that they come at you, you\u2019re likely to pull away. If you\u2019re a person who pulls away, you\u2019re most likely to have a dynamic where someone comes at you because of the way you pull way.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe technique and tip, if you\u2019re in that dynamic\u2014most of us are one or the other\u2014we\u2019re either the person who pulls away, or we\u2019re the person who pursues. It\u2019s sort of that fight or flight. What do you do in conflict? Do you pull away or do you pursue? The little tip, from marriage counseling, is: \u201cIf you know that you\u2019re the person who is a distancer, the best way to be in relationship with the other person is to pursue them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, for me, this played out in finances with my husband. My husband is very conscientious\u2014he is budget-driven. His grandfather taught him everything about how to run a family. His grandfather grew up in the Depression era. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe is <em>very <\/em>serious about the way that you save money\u2014which I very much appreciate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI grew up in a family where my dad was pretty faith-driven when it came to money\u2014a risk-taker\u2014not afraid to spend \/ not afraid to sort of figure things out as we went\u2014it always worked out. We always had enough. I lived in that sort of freedom when it came to finances\u2014probably, too much when it played out in my own life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy husband and I would absolutely butt heads about saving, about spending, about giving\u2014which, I think, is one of the main things that couples fight about. I would be so frustrated at how much he wanted to manage me, and he would be so frustrated that I seemed to care so little. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, one time, I was thinking about this pursuer-distancer. I realized that one of the best things I could do for my husband is be more concerned about our finances because, then, I\u2019m coming towards him. I remember coming to a place where I said: \u201cYou know what? I do get worried, and I don\u2019t know exactly how this is all going to work out. You\u2019re right. I never think about how we\u2019re going to pay for college, and that does worry me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said that to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDo you know what he said? He came to me: \u201cDon\u2019t worry. It\u2019s all going to work out \/ it\u2019s going to be okay,\u201d\u2014he had always been the worrier\u2014when I walked toward him rather than pulling away. So, he would be more and more worried, and I would be more and more frustrated: \u201cStop worrying so much! Stop worrying so much!\u201d He would be <em>more <\/em>worried because I was worried <em>less<\/em>\u2014instead of us trying to come to the middle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, it occurs to me, that in moving toward him, you respected him as a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You respected a strength he had instead of pulling away and taking flight from leadership he was trying to give your family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were talking about this issue of respect. It brings up a story you share in your book, Nicole, which is actually the opposite of what goes on in our car. In our car, Mary Ann will sometimes flinch at the aggressive way that I tend to drive. [Laughter] You were actually\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Bob\u2014Bob, I flinch. It\u2019s not Mary Ann. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> He\u2019s not taking us to the airport; is he? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He isn\u2019t! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Aggressive driving is a healthy pattern\u2014I\u2019m convinced of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> I appreciate that, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were actually getting onto your husband because he was going too slowly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Now, let me say\u2014that was an internal conversation \/ that was not an external conversation. That was what was going on in my mind as the frustration meter\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You hadn\u2019t articulated that yet?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> No, it was the frustration meter going up. You know, you\u2019re sitting in the passenger [seat], tapping your finger: \u201cAre you serious? Are you serious right now? Are you really going 44? Like you could, at least, go 52 on this road, if the speed limit is 45, and we\u2019re going to be late!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it\u2019s fueling that feeling rising up in you. I like to try to be a scientist of my own behavior. I love to help women and men <em>think<\/em> about what they\u2019re doing. That story about us driving down this road to our church is that feeling of: \u201cLet me really get into what was going on in my head.\u201d Okay; \u201cYou\u2019re not driving fast enough. Why can\u2019t you drive a little faster? I\u2019m about to press your leg down onto the gas pedal because you clearly could go faster than this, and you\u2019re not going fast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe\u2019re not going to be on time. When we\u2019re not on time, I don\u2019t like that because I like to keep it together. I like to keep it together because I like <em>people to like me<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> \u201cI like to be perfect.\u201d Then, you really are getting at the heart of it. Now, the heart of it is completely self-centered. There is nothing in that about me loving my husband, respecting my family, caring about him, at all. At the heart and root of it, it was really about me; but I could have deceived myself to believe that it was about my family\/ it was about my children: \u201cThe kids don\u2019t want to be late to Sunday school.\u201d I could have said a whole lot of things that wouldn\u2019t have actually been true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt says in Jeremiah 17:9 that \u201cThe heart is deceitful beyond all cure. Who can understand it?\u201d If you believe that the Bible is really real and that it really is speaking to you, you can go ahead and put your name in that verse: \u201cNicole is deceitful beyond all cure,\u201d\u2014to think I can deceive myself into believing that what I\u2019m doing has a good purpose if I\u2019m not slowing down, and opening up, and allowing the Lord to be the One who searches my heart and tells me who I really am. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat little tiny exercise is an expression of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, at some level, the passenger seat of a car is the ultimate place where control issues start to emerge; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Oh, yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> And a lot of prayer happens! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Yes. I haven\u2019t taught any kids to drive yet. So, Karen will have to tell us about that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Oh, believe me\u2014I\u2019ve got my youngest right now. That\u2019s why I had to touch my gray up before I came here\u2014[Laughter]\u2014even though this is radio and not TV.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Whether it\u2019s \u201cYou\u2019re going too fast,\u201d or \u201cYou\u2019re going too slow,\u201d it\u2019s the fact that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Or \u201cYou should have parked over here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014somebody else is driving. It drives you a little nuts; doesn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It starts to get to the root of the issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, last night, you and Mary Ann and Barbara and I had dinner together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right. So, I\u2019d shoulder surgery. I could have driven; but my arm was hurting, and it had been a full day. I said: \u201cYou know what? You can just drive us just a few miles down the road to where Bob, Mary Ann, and I are going to have dinner together.\u201d As Barbara pulls into the parking lot, we\u2019re a few minutes late. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m sitting over in the passenger seat. This is kind of funny, Nicole, because she will tell me:\u201cYou should have parked here. Why are you doing that?\u201d So, she turned in. I said, \u201cYou know, you could have turned in up here.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, I did! I did. It was all teasing to her\u2014I was totally teasing her. She goes, \u201cYes, but I told you I was going to turn in here.\u201d [Laughter] Then, I teased her a second time. She said, \u201cYou can tease me once, but not twice.\u201d She said, \u201cI get it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSeriously, here\u2019s the question for you both\u2014I\u2019d like you to take a crack at this\u2014there may be a woman listening, right now\u2014she is out of touch with how she is a controller. It may be that she\u2019s hearing but not hearing. It may be that her husband is listening and he is saying, \u201cYou know, I think they\u2019re describing my wife; but I don\u2019t think\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI can say anything about that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes. In that marriage, what do they do? I\u2019m really asking two questions here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst of all, for the woman who\u2019s listening but not hearing; and then, secondly, what does the husband do to\u2014not condemn his wife, or judge his wife, or point out her sin\u2014but to help her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> I think, for the woman, she needs to really drill down deeper to the issue and not just try to answer the question: \u201cAm I a control freak?\u201d because most women will say, \u201cNo; I\u2019m not a control freak,\u201d because they instantly, in their mind, can think of someone who\u2019s more controlling than them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> So, by comparison, they\u2019re not control freaks. But I like to ask women this: \u201cAre you trying to do a job with excellence, <em>or<\/em> are you trying to fix the outcome?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we\u2019re tackling tasks in our lives and roles that we have and doing them well, that\u2019s okay. But ask yourself, \u201cAm I really trying to manipulate the outcome?\u201d\u2014whether it\u2019s a child who tries out for a sports team \/ and if they don\u2019t make it, am I going to march down to that school and stomp my little high heels and say, \u201cWhy isn\u2019t Johnny on the team?\u201d or am I going to step back and let the child learn a lesson by not playing a sport that year?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAm I trying to fix outcomes? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAm I trying to get people to revisit issues? Am I trying to manipulate what actually happens? Or am I just trying to do my job with excellence? I know, for me, that\u2019s when I can tell I\u2019m crossing the line between being conscientious and being controlling. So, a woman can ask herself that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut for a husband to kind of approach this subject with his wife, it\u2019s touchy because you don\u2019t want to feel like you are putting a label on and you\u2019re calling names. I don\u2019t think I would address it in her entire personality\u2014like: \u201cI just think you have control issues, Honey.\u201d Maybe, I would choose a particular issue that\u2019s on the table, right now, in their marriage and talk more from the back door\u2014not: \u201cAre you controlling?\u201d or \u201cI think you\u2019re controlling,\u201d\u2014but: \u201cAre you trusting God? Are we trusting God in this issue?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMaybe, explore the whole journey with the Lord, in this certain issue: \u201cAre we going to trust Him? What is He trying to teach us? How are we hearing from the Holy Spirit?\u201d Tackle the process of learning in those different issues of life rather than just kind of approach the subject in such a way that sounds like you\u2019re calling names or you are accusing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Nicole?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> I would say that true growth doesn\u2019t happen until you\u2019re ready for it. Many people can listen to all kinds of things\u2014all kinds of sermons and read books\u2014and not take it in for themselves. So, you may not be ready to address the issue or not sure that it applies to you; but the question is: \u201cAre you willing to pray a bold prayer that you are asking the Lord to search your heart? \/ \u2018God, would You search my heart and reveal any way in me that is not from You?\u2019\u201d That is a bold prayer because I believe that\u2019s a prayer that God wants to answer!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHow are you really loving people?\u201d because Jesus did say that people will know you by the way that you love one another. \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d If you have an issue with every person in your life\u2014you are the common denominator in those relationships\u2014it\u2019s you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor a husband, I would say that prayer is a huge one. Have you actually, intentionally, prayed for your wife? A lot of us talk about doing but don\u2019t actually do it. What would it be like to say\u2014let\u2019s say take something that is realistic\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201414 days: \u201cCan you pray for your wife for 14 days straight?\u2014that the Lord would reveal this issue in her life? Would you pray that God would give you a heart for that woman, that is looking out because of the way that you love her\u2014not because you want to stop dealing with this problem\u2014but because you <em>love her so much<\/em> that you want to see her flourish and be free of something that is hindering her?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod does such a work in our heart when we pray for people. He gives us a spirit of love for them. When you address issues with people, out of a real heart of love for them, it comes across completely differently. I think of a husband saying to his wife: \u201cYou seem so not at peace. What is happening with you?\u201d or \u201cAre you happy? Are you really happy?\u201d\u2014just trying to get at the heart of what\u2019s really going on in her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s so brilliant, Nicole, because I feel like\u2014in the women I\u2019ve observed and in my own life\u2014if I feel like my husband\u2019s just trying to \u201cfix\u201d me, then, I just bristle, and I back away. I think a woman needs to hear\u2014not \u201cHey, I\u2019m trying to fix you,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but \u201cHey, I hear you. I hear what\u2019s going on.\u201d Maybe, that will help get to the root of <em>why <\/em>she\u2019s controlling: \u201cWhat\u2019s going on? What anxiousness does she have in her heart?\u201d Rather than trying to fix her, try to hear her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Nicole, has your husband ever taken you aside and said, \u201cSweetheart, are you happy?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nicole:<\/strong> Yes; he has. I think that he\u2019s taught me more about sort of a spirit of authentic safety. To your point, Dennis, I love what we talked about earlier\u2014saying to a woman, \u201cI want you to feel safe,\u201d\u2014you know, trying to understand her deepest felt-needs and meeting her in those. So, for him to say: \u201cI believe in you and all that God\u2019s made you to be. How can I help you to get there? Can I help you when you\u2019re frustrated in this place?\u201d\u2014to sort of affirm truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat comes\u2014this is going to be 16 years of marriage\u2014we got married when we were just baby babies. So, we\u2019ve gone through a lot of hard times. At year one or two, or even seven or eight, that\u2019s not the man that Dave was yet. I certainly wasn\u2019t the woman, then, that I am trying to be now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat maturity is something that makes you appreciate and love your spouse so much. It comes over time; it doesn\u2019t come in year one or two\u2014it\u2019s over time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Karen\u2014has Foxy Todd ever taken you aside and said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> Actually, Foxy Todd is wonderful at getting to the heart of issues. He doesn\u2019t often ask me, \u201cHey, what\u2019s going on in your life?\u201d He often asks me and my children, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on in your heart?\u201d He knows what\u2019s going on in my life. All he has to do is walk over to my desk and look at my day planner and know what deadlines I have and what speaking engagements I have and all of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Karen:<\/strong> He knows what\u2019s going on in my life; but he\u2019ll ask, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on in your heart?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven with our kids, sometimes, when we\u2019ve gotten into discipline issues with them\u2014and I\u2019m the \u201cfreak out\u201d mom: \u201cWhat are the church ladies going to think!?\u201d\u2014I want to fix the issue of the behavior. He\u2019ll take them aside and say, \u201cJust tell me what\u2019s going on in your heart.\u201d I think that really helps a woman to open up and feel that safe place that she can share with him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I really like what we\u2019ve talked about here\u2014your idea of a bold prayer. I think that <em>is<\/em> the place to start because Jesus Christ left the planet to send the Holy Spirit to teach us, convict us, and instruct us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe\u2019s fully capable\u2014God\u2019s fully capable of doing His job.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second thing\u2014and we scooted by it pretty quickly\u2014is the idea of loving well. I think one of the ways I might encourage a woman\u2014or, for that matter, a man\u2014who needs to pray the bold prayer of: \u201cGod, would You show me if I\u2019m a control freak \/ if I\u2019m trying to control others?\u201d is to take a step back and look at how you impact people around accomplishing the objective: \u201cHow do your children suffer? How does your marriage suffer\u2014your husband suffer \/ your family\u2014because you\u2019re trying to manage an image or perfection or some kind of phantom?\u201d I promise you\u2014if the task is more important than people, that doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re a control freak; but it may be a symptom of something going on in the heart that does need to be dealt with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If your pursuit of perfection and control is bigger than your concern about the relationships you\u2019re involved with, that\u2019s a symptom; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And both of you ladies outline a number of the symptoms of control, and you help ladies understand how to diagnose and how to deal with this issue in the books you\u2019ve written. One is called <em>She\u2019s Got Issues: Seriously Good News for Stressed-out, Secretly Scared Control Freaks like Us. <\/em>That\u2019s the book by Nicole Unice. The other is called <em>Let. It. Go.: How to Stop Running the Show and Start Walking in Faith.<\/em> That\u2019s the book by Karen Ehman.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have both books in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. You can order from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Just go to the website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order these books\u20141-800-FL-TODAY is the number\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, in a very real sense, what we do, here at FamilyLife, we could not do without listeners who are more than just listeners\u2014those of you who, not only tune in and listen, but who take the next step\u2014who get in touch with us, let us know that you\u2019re listening and that you believe in what we\u2019re doing, and that you want to see it continue. You are the guys who make <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>possible; and we appreciate your partnership with us, here at this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, your financial support helps us cover the costs of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. So, can I encourage you\u2014if you\u2019ve never gotten in touch with us to let us know that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and that it\u2019s making a difference in your marriage and in your family, we\u2019d love to hear from you. You can donate to support this ministry, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can make a donation over the phone when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY; or you can mail your donation to us, if you\u2019d prefer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur mailing address is PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we are going to talk about how trying to be a controlling perfectionist can kill you\u2014it really can. We\u2019re going to talk about how you deal with that and the whole issue of grace. Our guests, Nicole Unice and Karen Ehman, are going to be back. I hope you can be back with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304084","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304084"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304084"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304084"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304084"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304084"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304084"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304084"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}