{"id":304020,"date":"2016-05-31T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2016-05-31T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/pressing-into-the-conversation\/"},"modified":"2016-05-31T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2016-05-31T15:00:00","slug":"pressing-into-the-conversation","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/pressing-into-the-conversation\/","title":{"rendered":"Pressing Into the Conversation"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dan Allender reminds believers that there is a thief who is out to kill, steal, and destroy, and he&#8217;s still alive and well. Dan tells parents the symptoms of sexual abuse in children.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-05-31.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.29M","filesize_raw":"24426474","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2873],"tags":[6012,6013,4395,4374],"podcast_series":[8143],"cwp_profile":[3437],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304020","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-abuse-vitctim","tag-freedom-from-abuse","tag-healing-from-abuse","tag-sexual-abuse","podcast_series-healing-the-wounded-heart","cwp_profile-dan-allender","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304020\/pressing-into-the-conversation","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304020\/pressing-into-the-conversation","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"cXVYQQBFTS\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/pressing-into-the-conversation\/\">Pressing Into the Conversation<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/pressing-into-the-conversation\/embed\/#?secret=cXVYQQBFTS\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Pressing Into the Conversation&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"cXVYQQBFTS\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-05-31.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-05-31.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How does someone find healing and hope if their childhood experience included sexual abuse?\u00a0 Dr. Dan Allender says, \u201cThe process includes forgiving the one who abused you, but it doesn\u2019t end there.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>So often, people will say, \u201cWell, I forgave the abuser,\u201d or \u201cI forgave myself and asked for forgiveness for what I think to be immorality,\u201d\u2014fantastic, of course!\u00a0 But just forgiving does not change your brain. The reality of that narrative still exists within you that needs the redemptive work of Jesus engaging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, May 31<sup>st<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. How does someone find healing and hope when sexual abuse has been a part of their past?\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about that subject today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition. This is one of those days when you kind of have mixed feelings because it\u2019s great to have a good friend joining you and it\u2019s hard to talk about what we\u2019re going to be talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is. And just for any parent right now, who is within earshot of children, you might want to think a second time about whether or not they listen to this broadcast. We\u2019re talking to Dr. Dan Allender about sexual abuse in the culture today. Dan\u2014welcome back to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>A delight to be with you both. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dan has written a new book called <em>Healing the Wounded Heart<\/em>. He wrote a best-selling book back about\u2014what?\u201425 years ago\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>It was\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201425 years ago called <em>The Wounded Heart<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Dan is a teacher; he is a counselor; he\u2019s a speaker; he\u2019s a fly-fisherman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He\u2019s a provocateur. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He is that!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, we could come up with all kinds of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He is that!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014descriptions for Dan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>A grandfather. Come on!\u2014that\u2019s the best, as well as being a father\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>\u2014and a husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, Dan just to kind of cut to the chase on this discussion here\u2014and this is a hard question, but I know you feel strongly about this: \u201cWhat is the role of evil around this subject of sexual abuse?\u201d\u00a0 You believe\u2014we were walking into the studio, and you were starting to unpack it. I said: \u201cStop!\u00a0 I want our listeners to hear this.\u201d\u00a0 But you believe there are forces of evil behind this <em>massive<\/em> culture of sexual abuse today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, John 10:10 talks about the thief who is stealing, and killing or murdering, and destroying. And if you just take those three words and to go: \u201cWell, let\u2019s talk about sexual abuse,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it begins with a kind of grooming. That grooming binds you before the abuse ever occurs into the heart and the being of the other. And in that connection, evil\u2019s working to steal innocence to bring us to that point of: \u201cI will never trust again.\u201d\u00a0 Well, isn\u2019t that evil\u2019s design?\u2014to destroy faith?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>When you destroy the capacity to trust, your heart will be ever, ever in that war of: \u201cI can\u2019t rest with you. I can\u2019t let down with you,\u201d and so, it\u2019s looking to destroy. I think, actually, a better word is the word, mar. It wants to mar your face \/ it wants to mar your sense of identity so that you are <em>always<\/em> bound to a sense: \u201cThere is something ugly and violating within me.\u201d\u00a0 So, it\u2019s out to destroy faith, hope, and love primarily through that means of creating trauma. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTrauma is the doorway evil uses to capture the human heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have heard you say this\u2014and this is a pretty strong statement\u2014you say that sexual abuse is the hardest stone the devil of hell throws at a human being. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Oh, emotional abuse\u2014terrible \/ physical abuse\u2014terrible\u2014but nothing that quite gets to the heart of us like sexuality. So, evil is working on almost all occasions for emotional\/physical trauma; but almost always, in the human heart, a violation of our sexuality is a violation of our core identity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We talked earlier about how you define sexual abuse. It\u2019s anything that you are led into that is outside of God\u2019s design for sex\u2014the marriage relationship. That can be anything from direct physical touch, which is how we generally classify abuse, to\u2014I remember you saying one time\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014when an ad pops up in the middle of the Super Bowl, you\u2019ve just been sexually abused by that ad \/ by what it\u2019s presenting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we broaden the definition, obviously, we are kind of all victims of sexual abuse. When you narrow it down to people who have been touched \/ people who have been violated with direct physical touch, what percentage of the population is experiencing that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, the research that has been done would say\u2014for example, about 38 percent of women have been sexually abused in a way in which it is against the law. When you broaden it to categories, where there is no touch, like an uncle walking in on you while you\u2019re showering\u2014not a mistake \/ a clear ogling of your young body\u2014well, it jumps to 52 percent of women. The research for men has never been as clear and concrete. It is a strange thing. Men don\u2019t want to address abuse in a way that women have often been culturally, over the last 30 years, much more willing to do so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we\u2019re living, if you will, in this drenched darkness of harm that, if we don\u2019t name, we\u2019re not going to address what needs to occur for hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we\u2019re not naming it\u2014as a culture, we\u2019re not. All of the things you\u2019ve described\u2014we call it the hookup culture \/ we call it the Playboy culture\u2014we\u2019ve got all kinds of names for it. We\u2019re not calling it the sexual abuse culture that we live in. As a result, we\u2019re kind of living like it\u2019s the new normal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, and that\u2014I will <em>never<\/em> minimize sexual immorality. But we also have to bring up that it\u2019s traumatic. It has an effect on your body, your brain, your heart, your soul, your relationships. So, whether you walked out in front of a car or you were hit accidentally, the bottom line is you\u2019ve got broken bones we\u2019ve got to deal with \/ that need change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to talk about the symptoms that are found in a child of having been sexually abused\u2014perhaps, molested. I also want to talk about the symptoms, in a marriage of an adult, who is in a marriage relationship where sexuality is a part of two becoming one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I want to go back to the children first because we have a lot of listeners, who get babysitter\u2019s for their kids. They go out on a date \/ they hire someone to come in the home and stay so they can go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae. <\/sup>They are terrified, Dan: \u201cHow can you check this out?\u201d\u00a0 You can\u2019t, but are there symptoms that parents can know whether something has taken place or is taking place, if not with a babysitter, perhaps, with an extended family member?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Exactly. Well, first and foremost, where you find your child changing almost suddenly\u2014to a point where you\u2019d go: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThat\u2019s not my child. My child is usually effusive,\u201d or \u201c\u2026angry,\u201d or \u201c\u2026engaging; and <em>now<\/em>, they are not the way they seem to be.\u201d\u00a0 Major, quick changes should be your first point of notice to go, \u201cWhoa!\u201d\u00a0 So, you\u2019ve got a normally angry child; and they\u2019re now withdrawn. You\u2019ve got a child who is pretty active and pleasant, and they end up becoming much angrier than they were. Major, quick changes ought to alert you there has been some trauma. Now, I\u2019m not going to say it is sexual abuse, but let\u2019s just say there\u2019s been a major change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond thing is where you see that child <em>far<\/em> more interested in sexuality than they were before. So, major changes\u2014but the third is\u2014and this is the hardest to say\u2014your child will hint. Your child will literally drop hints of: \u201cI don\u2019t want to be with that babysitter,\u201d \u201cAh! They\u2019re great. They\u2019re fantastic!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey may not ever say directly, \u201cI was sexually abused by this lovely old aunt that you think is a great human being,\u201d but there will be ways that you need to start paying attention to the reality that your child may be trying to tell you. So many parents will say, \u201cWell, I never knew because they never told.\u201d\u00a0 Well, because you weren\u2019t <em>listening<\/em> for that possibility. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the last thing I want to do is create paranoia. You can\u2019t keep your children from being sexually abused in our culture. I\u2019m not saying, \u201cWell, it\u2019s no big deal.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>But if you live with paranoia, you will create even more harm or, at least, equal to your child being abused. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But if you are going to Thanksgiving and the child says, \u201cIs Uncle Fred going to be at Thanksgiving?\u201d and you go, \u201cYes, everybody is coming,\u201d\u2014even if he doesn\u2019t say anything after that, the fact that he asked about Uncle Fred should cause you to go: \u201cWhat? Do you like Uncle Fred?\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014something; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>But Bob, I just want to underline: \u201cDon\u2019t ask directly if there has been sexual abuse.\u201d\u00a0 Why?\u2014because your child feels <em>ashamed<\/em>. You\u2019re not going to be able to pass through the sentry of their shame until you get a larger conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re talking with Dan Allender about a new book that he\u2019s written called <em>Healing the Wounded Heart<\/em>, which is a follow-up to a book he wrote a quarter of a century ago called <em>The Wounded Heart<\/em> that deals with this subject of sexual abuse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s hard to be a parent today, Dennis, with this being the reality of our culture\u2014hard to know how to navigate this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I\u2019m glad, Dan, you said what you did about: \u201cDon\u2019t make a bigger deal out of this. Don\u2019t create paranoia with your child.\u201d\u00a0 That can also almost be a form of abuse in and of itself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dan: <\/strong>Exactly!\u00a0 When you are constantly asking: \u201cNow, did he touch you?\u00a0 What went on between the two of you?\u201d you are creating almost a sexualized atmosphere by your concern. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOftentimes, the parent who is paranoid is often the one who has not addressed their own sexual past and the harm that\u2019s there. You\u2019re working <em>so<\/em> <em>deeply<\/em> to make sure your child doesn\u2019t suffer\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>\u2014the way you did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dan: <\/strong>But on the other hand, what I want to say is\u2014if you were to see the redemption God has for you in engaging your past harm\u2014it\u2019s not that you would be lax with regard to your child\u2014but you wouldn\u2019t be living with such <em>fear<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re going to talk later this week with Justin Holcomb about some things parents can do <em>proactively<\/em> in this regard\u2014how you can help equip your children to be their own protectors\u2014because kids can be equipped early to know how to have power in situations where they might otherwise feel powerless; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Oh my goodness; yes!\u00a0 I mean, our children have to be trained to address a <em>wide<\/em> variety of harm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need the ability to have these conversations with far more comfortability and wisdom than we often have had in the past. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Justin wrote a book called <em>God Made All of Me<\/em>, and it\u2019s a children\u2019s book. I think it\u2019s brilliant because it allows parents to engage in a conversation about how to protect your body. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we\u2019ve got the book in our <em>FamilyLife<\/em> <em>Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about that book; and of course, we\u2019ve got Dan\u2019s book, <em>Healing the Wounded Heart<\/em>, in the Resource Center as well. So, if our listeners are looking for good resources on this subject, we\u2019ve got it at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dan, let\u2019s talk about a spouse who\u2014obviously, in a married relationship\u2014who is listening to us and going, \u201cI wonder if I was abused back then.\u201d\u00a0 What are the symptoms?\u00a0 What would you say to a husband in terms of, maybe, spotting something taking place in his wife\u2019s life or her responsiveness or unresponsiveness to him in a marriage relationship around sexual abuse?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, I think the first category is a lack of presence\u2014a lack of being able to be full of joy, and delight, and honor with regard to our sexuality, as a couple, and the inability to talk about sex, the inability to enjoy physically being together in a way in which we <em>love<\/em> being able to pleasure each other. So, one of the first key signs is evil wants to take away sexual joy; but far more than that\u2014just wants to take away delight and honor from a couple. Where there is shame; there will not be delight and honor. I don\u2019t mean so much shame between the two of you, but where there is shame in your past. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, so often, people will say, \u201cWell, I forgave the abuser,\u201d or \u201cI forgave myself and asked for forgiveness for what I think to be immorality,\u201d\u2014fantastic, of course! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you need to engage\u2014just asking for forgiveness or just forgiving does not change your brain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And so, what would you say to the husband who is in a relationship with his wife where he\u2019s noticed this?\u00a0 I think the question would be: \u201cCan he counsel his wife?\u00a0 Can he guide her in terms of discussing this?\u201d or \u201cDo you need a third party in that relationship to begin to unpack the bags?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Oh boy!\u00a0 Let\u2019s just begin by saying the last thing I want husbands to do is to go: \u201cHey, you don\u2019t seem to have a whole lot of joy in our sex life. You\u2019ve been sexually abused.\u201d\u00a0 That would be <em>grievous<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what we can begin to do is to ask, \u201cDid the two of you have profitable and honoring discussions of sexuality when you feel hurt, or confused, or not present?\u00a0 Is this something you can do together like planning your summer vacation?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf the answer is: \u201cAre you kidding?!\u00a0 No, there is too much tension, hurt, anger,\u201d\u2014already, what I would say is: \u201cThis is a war zone.\u201d Now, let\u2019s make sure we don\u2019t create a DMZ. Because when you create a DMZ\u2014a demilitarized zone, where <em>nobody<\/em> can walk there\u2014I promise you\u2014someone is walking there, and it\u2019s the kingdom of darkness. Evil will be walking there, sowing seeds of dissention, discontent, and ultimately, resentment. We know what happens with resentment\u2014it gives ground for evil to be able to divide the two of you. So, so many couples end up\u2014five, twenty, thirty years in\u2014dividing into divorce because they\u2019ve not had the courage to deal with what\u2019s broken about [their] sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, again, I\u2019m not going to claim every couple has someone in it who has been sexually abused; but when you get down to those really deep realms of heartache, shame, brokenness, and contempt, I want a good guide. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, if I am going into a dangerous place, I want somebody who has been there before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And what I hear you saying is\u2014is that love creates safety. It\u2019s the opposite of a demilitarized zone. It\u2019s a safe place where you can have a civil conversation in seeking to understand one another. A good question to ask your spouse might be: \u201cDo you feel safe with me in having these discussions?\u201d\u00a0 <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Oh my goodness!\u00a0 And \u201cWhat have I done through the years that have made it not safe that I can literally come back to and go, \u2018I ask your forgiveness,\u2019?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay. So, I\u2019m imagining somebody listening right now and thinking, \u201cI\u2019m going to go home tonight and I\u2019m going to say: \u2018I was listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. They had this guy on talking about sexual abuse. I\u2019m just wondering if, maybe, we could talk a little bit about our sexual pasts and stuff even before we were married and what might have gone on in our lives.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the other spouse goes: \u201cNo. No. No! I\u2019m not\u2014why do we need to talk about it?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just imagining this collision happening. The guy going, \u201cI\u2019m never listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> again and taking their advice!\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 What do you do if you\u2019re that husband and you go, \u201cIf I even bring this up, my wife is going to say, \u2018I\u2019m not interested in this,\u2019 and leave the room\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, I think, first of all, before you jump in, why not gain a sense of what\u2019s true about your own life. Open your heart to pray \/ open your heart to ask Jesus to begin to engage your own sexual history and where there has been harm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, rather than just jump in, step back\u2014ponder. I\u2019d love for people to buy the book and begin to read, and then, go: \u201cLook, I\u2019m starting to deal with things in my own life. And whether you want to deal with yours or not, I want you to join me in thinking through, praying through, <em>fighting<\/em> against the kingdom of darkness.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you begin to have this be a realm in which \u201cI\u2019m committed to engaging my heart for the sake of the kingdom of God,\u201d that\u2019s a much more <em>alluring<\/em> opportunity than simply coming back, going: \u201cHey, you\u2019ve been abused. Let\u2019s deal with this so we can have better sex.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And a husband will say, \u201cI\u2019m willing to be vulnerable\u2014and be vulnerable around my own past,\u201d\u2014he\u2019s opening the door and inviting his wife. As they do that \/ as she sees he is willing to do this, she may get to a point where she\u2019s ready to open that up too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s the: \u201cWill you die first?\u00a0 Will you go through the door first?\u201d\u00a0 If you\u2019re working for the other to do so, it\u2019s not a means of honor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What you\u2019re talking about\u2014in the life of a husband, who is inviting this\u2014is a tough word\u2014it\u2019s called humility. And if you want to invite your wife into some tough areas\u2014 where you may have had arguments or discussions or ended up, as you just described, bunkering up \/ having a war zone in between you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you\u2019ve got to do something in your own heart that softens it, and your wife can see it so you can engage in that conversation. That means you\u2019re going to be teachable. That means you\u2019ve got to be willing to admit how you have brought harm, or hurt, or wounded your wife. I think that is hard for a lot of guys\u2014we don\u2019t want to admit that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, in some ways, I don\u2019t think there is anything more courageous than being humble. You\u2019re the first boot into the battle, and you\u2019re the last boot to depart. That\u2019s what it means to lead your wife in this arena. Enter into\u2014you don\u2019t have to go back and share every story of how you\u2019ve encountered pornography or where it was in your life five years ago. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s the beginning of trying to say: \u201cEvil has been trying to capture my heart through my sexuality since I was almost a baby. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cNow, how do I begin to expose the schemes of the devil in a way in which all my sexual trauma is, indeed, being used by the kingdom of darkness?\u201d\u2014but it\u2019s also the realm in which God is inviting you to a whole new level of intimacy with Him, not only in the sense of what it means to be forgiven, but to know the tears of God \/ to know the <em>anger<\/em> of God on your behalf\u2014all moving your heart to a sense of new freedom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Just having a copy of <em>Healing the Wounded Heart<\/em> on the bedside table is\u2014somebody is going to notice and say: \u201cWhat\u2019s that book you\u2019re reading?\u201d and \u201cWhat\u2019s that about?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And could I just add one other word where I think humility really shows up?\u00a0 Offer to pray for your wife\u2014to name her in a prayer, and ask God to merge your hearts together as a couple, and to help you, as a husband, understand her to guide her and to gently know how to create safety. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do\u2014I think a book like this, Bob\u2014and here is what I\u2019d suggest: \u201cGet the book and begin reading it, and underlining it, and then invite your spouse to reading and underlining it as well. Then, you can start talking about your underlined portions to have conversations about.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And there is a workbook that goes along with this as well, too; right?\u00a0 So, a couple could get both the book and the workbook. I think you\u2019re right, Dennis\u2014to go through it together in that kind of, \u201cI go first and you kind of follow along the journey I\u2019m on.\u201d\u00a0 I think the point you\u2019re making is\u2014that for a couple to go through this together\u2014there\u2019s real power in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd of course, we\u2019ve got both the book and the workbook in our <em>FamilyLife<\/em> <em>Today<\/em> Resource Center. Listeners can order from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or they can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. The title of the book and the workbook, <em>Healing the Wounded Heart:<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>The Heartache of Sexual Abuse and the Hope of Transformation<\/em>. Both the book and the workbook are written by our guest today, Dr. Dan Allender. Again, order online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here on the last day of May, we want to let regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners know that this is the last opportunity you\u2019ll have to help us take full advantage of a matching-gift opportunity that has been made available to us, here at FamilyLife, this month. Some friends of the ministry\u2014who came to us and said, \u201cWe know summertime can be a challenging time for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We also know that this is your 40<sup>th<\/sup> anniversary year, and we\u2019d love to think that you can make it through the summer with a solid, financial foundation underneath the ministry.\u201d They have agreed that, during this month, they would match every donation we receive, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to a total of $350,000. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday is the last day that we have for funds to qualify for that matching-gift opportunity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWould you consider going to FamilyLifeToday.com and making an online donation today, knowing that your donation will be matched, dollar for dollar?\u00a0 Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Or you can still mail your donation to us today. As long as it is postmarked today, we\u2019re still in good shape. Send it to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBox 7111, Little Rock, AR; the zip code is 72223. Again, \u201cThanks,\u201d in advance, for your partnership with us, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, before we wrap things up today, we want to say, \u201cCongratulations!\u201d to Mike and Kathi Erosa. You know we\u2019ve been talking about anniversaries all year. Well, Mike and Kathi are not celebrating an anniversary today\u2014they\u2019ll be doing that a year from now because today is their wedding day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cCongratulations!\u201d to Mike and Kathi as they get married in Pine Grove, California. In fact, they went to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u00ae back in February. They listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> on KYCC. We just want to say, \u201cGod bless you guys, and may your marriage be everything that God wants it to be.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd by the way, you guys [Mike and Kathi] can have the day off tomorrow\u2014you don\u2019t have to tune in to listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. The rest of you\u2014hope to see you back tomorrow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. See you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.29M"],"filesize_raw":["24426474"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304020.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304020.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Allender reminds believers that there is a thief who is out to kill, steal, and destroy, and he's still alive and well. Dan tells parents the symptoms of sexual abuse in children.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-05-31.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How does someone find healing and hope if their childhood experience included sexual abuse?\u00a0 Dr. Dan Allender says, \u201cThe process includes forgiving the one who abused you, but it doesn\u2019t end there.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>So often, people will say, \u201cWell, I forgave the abuser,\u201d or \u201cI forgave myself and asked for forgiveness for what I think to be immorality,\u201d\u2014fantastic, of course!\u00a0 But just forgiving does not change your brain. The reality of that narrative still exists within you that needs the redemptive work of Jesus engaging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, May 31<sup>st<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. How does someone find healing and hope when sexual abuse has been a part of their past?\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about that subject today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition. This is one of those days when you kind of have mixed feelings because it\u2019s great to have a good friend joining you and it\u2019s hard to talk about what we\u2019re going to be talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is. And just for any parent right now, who is within earshot of children, you might want to think a second time about whether or not they listen to this broadcast. We\u2019re talking to Dr. Dan Allender about sexual abuse in the culture today. Dan\u2014welcome back to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>A delight to be with you both. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dan has written a new book called <em>Healing the Wounded Heart<\/em>. He wrote a best-selling book back about\u2014what?\u201425 years ago\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>It was\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201425 years ago called <em>The Wounded Heart<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Dan is a teacher; he is a counselor; he\u2019s a speaker; he\u2019s a fly-fisherman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He\u2019s a provocateur. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He is that!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, we could come up with all kinds of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He is that!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014descriptions for Dan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>A grandfather. Come on!\u2014that\u2019s the best, as well as being a father\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>\u2014and a husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, Dan just to kind of cut to the chase on this discussion here\u2014and this is a hard question, but I know you feel strongly about this: \u201cWhat is the role of evil around this subject of sexual abuse?\u201d\u00a0 You believe\u2014we were walking into the studio, and you were starting to unpack it. I said: \u201cStop!\u00a0 I want our listeners to hear this.\u201d\u00a0 But you believe there are forces of evil behind this <em>massive<\/em> culture of sexual abuse today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, John 10:10 talks about the thief who is stealing, and killing or murdering, and destroying. And if you just take those three words and to go: \u201cWell, let\u2019s talk about sexual abuse,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it begins with a kind of grooming. That grooming binds you before the abuse ever occurs into the heart and the being of the other. And in that connection, evil\u2019s working to steal innocence to bring us to that point of: \u201cI will never trust again.\u201d\u00a0 Well, isn\u2019t that evil\u2019s design?\u2014to destroy faith?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>When you destroy the capacity to trust, your heart will be ever, ever in that war of: \u201cI can\u2019t rest with you. I can\u2019t let down with you,\u201d and so, it\u2019s looking to destroy. I think, actually, a better word is the word, mar. It wants to mar your face \/ it wants to mar your sense of identity so that you are <em>always<\/em> bound to a sense: \u201cThere is something ugly and violating within me.\u201d\u00a0 So, it\u2019s out to destroy faith, hope, and love primarily through that means of creating trauma. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTrauma is the doorway evil uses to capture the human heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have heard you say this\u2014and this is a pretty strong statement\u2014you say that sexual abuse is the hardest stone the devil of hell throws at a human being. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Oh, emotional abuse\u2014terrible \/ physical abuse\u2014terrible\u2014but nothing that quite gets to the heart of us like sexuality. So, evil is working on almost all occasions for emotional\/physical trauma; but almost always, in the human heart, a violation of our sexuality is a violation of our core identity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We talked earlier about how you define sexual abuse. It\u2019s anything that you are led into that is outside of God\u2019s design for sex\u2014the marriage relationship. That can be anything from direct physical touch, which is how we generally classify abuse, to\u2014I remember you saying one time\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014when an ad pops up in the middle of the Super Bowl, you\u2019ve just been sexually abused by that ad \/ by what it\u2019s presenting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we broaden the definition, obviously, we are kind of all victims of sexual abuse. When you narrow it down to people who have been touched \/ people who have been violated with direct physical touch, what percentage of the population is experiencing that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, the research that has been done would say\u2014for example, about 38 percent of women have been sexually abused in a way in which it is against the law. When you broaden it to categories, where there is no touch, like an uncle walking in on you while you\u2019re showering\u2014not a mistake \/ a clear ogling of your young body\u2014well, it jumps to 52 percent of women. The research for men has never been as clear and concrete. It is a strange thing. Men don\u2019t want to address abuse in a way that women have often been culturally, over the last 30 years, much more willing to do so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we\u2019re living, if you will, in this drenched darkness of harm that, if we don\u2019t name, we\u2019re not going to address what needs to occur for hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we\u2019re not naming it\u2014as a culture, we\u2019re not. All of the things you\u2019ve described\u2014we call it the hookup culture \/ we call it the Playboy culture\u2014we\u2019ve got all kinds of names for it. We\u2019re not calling it the sexual abuse culture that we live in. As a result, we\u2019re kind of living like it\u2019s the new normal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, and that\u2014I will <em>never<\/em> minimize sexual immorality. But we also have to bring up that it\u2019s traumatic. It has an effect on your body, your brain, your heart, your soul, your relationships. So, whether you walked out in front of a car or you were hit accidentally, the bottom line is you\u2019ve got broken bones we\u2019ve got to deal with \/ that need change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to talk about the symptoms that are found in a child of having been sexually abused\u2014perhaps, molested. I also want to talk about the symptoms, in a marriage of an adult, who is in a marriage relationship where sexuality is a part of two becoming one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I want to go back to the children first because we have a lot of listeners, who get babysitter\u2019s for their kids. They go out on a date \/ they hire someone to come in the home and stay so they can go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae. <\/sup>They are terrified, Dan: \u201cHow can you check this out?\u201d\u00a0 You can\u2019t, but are there symptoms that parents can know whether something has taken place or is taking place, if not with a babysitter, perhaps, with an extended family member?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Exactly. Well, first and foremost, where you find your child changing almost suddenly\u2014to a point where you\u2019d go: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThat\u2019s not my child. My child is usually effusive,\u201d or \u201c\u2026angry,\u201d or \u201c\u2026engaging; and <em>now<\/em>, they are not the way they seem to be.\u201d\u00a0 Major, quick changes should be your first point of notice to go, \u201cWhoa!\u201d\u00a0 So, you\u2019ve got a normally angry child; and they\u2019re now withdrawn. You\u2019ve got a child who is pretty active and pleasant, and they end up becoming much angrier than they were. Major, quick changes ought to alert you there has been some trauma. Now, I\u2019m not going to say it is sexual abuse, but let\u2019s just say there\u2019s been a major change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond thing is where you see that child <em>far<\/em> more interested in sexuality than they were before. So, major changes\u2014but the third is\u2014and this is the hardest to say\u2014your child will hint. Your child will literally drop hints of: \u201cI don\u2019t want to be with that babysitter,\u201d \u201cAh! They\u2019re great. They\u2019re fantastic!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey may not ever say directly, \u201cI was sexually abused by this lovely old aunt that you think is a great human being,\u201d but there will be ways that you need to start paying attention to the reality that your child may be trying to tell you. So many parents will say, \u201cWell, I never knew because they never told.\u201d\u00a0 Well, because you weren\u2019t <em>listening<\/em> for that possibility. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the last thing I want to do is create paranoia. You can\u2019t keep your children from being sexually abused in our culture. I\u2019m not saying, \u201cWell, it\u2019s no big deal.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>But if you live with paranoia, you will create even more harm or, at least, equal to your child being abused. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But if you are going to Thanksgiving and the child says, \u201cIs Uncle Fred going to be at Thanksgiving?\u201d and you go, \u201cYes, everybody is coming,\u201d\u2014even if he doesn\u2019t say anything after that, the fact that he asked about Uncle Fred should cause you to go: \u201cWhat? Do you like Uncle Fred?\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014something; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>But Bob, I just want to underline: \u201cDon\u2019t ask directly if there has been sexual abuse.\u201d\u00a0 Why?\u2014because your child feels <em>ashamed<\/em>. You\u2019re not going to be able to pass through the sentry of their shame until you get a larger conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re talking with Dan Allender about a new book that he\u2019s written called <em>Healing the Wounded Heart<\/em>, which is a follow-up to a book he wrote a quarter of a century ago called <em>The Wounded Heart<\/em> that deals with this subject of sexual abuse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s hard to be a parent today, Dennis, with this being the reality of our culture\u2014hard to know how to navigate this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I\u2019m glad, Dan, you said what you did about: \u201cDon\u2019t make a bigger deal out of this. Don\u2019t create paranoia with your child.\u201d\u00a0 That can also almost be a form of abuse in and of itself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dan: <\/strong>Exactly!\u00a0 When you are constantly asking: \u201cNow, did he touch you?\u00a0 What went on between the two of you?\u201d you are creating almost a sexualized atmosphere by your concern. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOftentimes, the parent who is paranoid is often the one who has not addressed their own sexual past and the harm that\u2019s there. You\u2019re working <em>so<\/em> <em>deeply<\/em> to make sure your child doesn\u2019t suffer\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>\u2014the way you did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dan: <\/strong>But on the other hand, what I want to say is\u2014if you were to see the redemption God has for you in engaging your past harm\u2014it\u2019s not that you would be lax with regard to your child\u2014but you wouldn\u2019t be living with such <em>fear<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re going to talk later this week with Justin Holcomb about some things parents can do <em>proactively<\/em> in this regard\u2014how you can help equip your children to be their own protectors\u2014because kids can be equipped early to know how to have power in situations where they might otherwise feel powerless; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Oh my goodness; yes!\u00a0 I mean, our children have to be trained to address a <em>wide<\/em> variety of harm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need the ability to have these conversations with far more comfortability and wisdom than we often have had in the past. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Justin wrote a book called <em>God Made All of Me<\/em>, and it\u2019s a children\u2019s book. I think it\u2019s brilliant because it allows parents to engage in a conversation about how to protect your body. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we\u2019ve got the book in our <em>FamilyLife<\/em> <em>Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about that book; and of course, we\u2019ve got Dan\u2019s book, <em>Healing the Wounded Heart<\/em>, in the Resource Center as well. So, if our listeners are looking for good resources on this subject, we\u2019ve got it at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dan, let\u2019s talk about a spouse who\u2014obviously, in a married relationship\u2014who is listening to us and going, \u201cI wonder if I was abused back then.\u201d\u00a0 What are the symptoms?\u00a0 What would you say to a husband in terms of, maybe, spotting something taking place in his wife\u2019s life or her responsiveness or unresponsiveness to him in a marriage relationship around sexual abuse?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, I think the first category is a lack of presence\u2014a lack of being able to be full of joy, and delight, and honor with regard to our sexuality, as a couple, and the inability to talk about sex, the inability to enjoy physically being together in a way in which we <em>love<\/em> being able to pleasure each other. So, one of the first key signs is evil wants to take away sexual joy; but far more than that\u2014just wants to take away delight and honor from a couple. Where there is shame; there will not be delight and honor. I don\u2019t mean so much shame between the two of you, but where there is shame in your past. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, so often, people will say, \u201cWell, I forgave the abuser,\u201d or \u201cI forgave myself and asked for forgiveness for what I think to be immorality,\u201d\u2014fantastic, of course! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you need to engage\u2014just asking for forgiveness or just forgiving does not change your brain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And so, what would you say to the husband who is in a relationship with his wife where he\u2019s noticed this?\u00a0 I think the question would be: \u201cCan he counsel his wife?\u00a0 Can he guide her in terms of discussing this?\u201d or \u201cDo you need a third party in that relationship to begin to unpack the bags?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Oh boy!\u00a0 Let\u2019s just begin by saying the last thing I want husbands to do is to go: \u201cHey, you don\u2019t seem to have a whole lot of joy in our sex life. You\u2019ve been sexually abused.\u201d\u00a0 That would be <em>grievous<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what we can begin to do is to ask, \u201cDid the two of you have profitable and honoring discussions of sexuality when you feel hurt, or confused, or not present?\u00a0 Is this something you can do together like planning your summer vacation?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf the answer is: \u201cAre you kidding?!\u00a0 No, there is too much tension, hurt, anger,\u201d\u2014already, what I would say is: \u201cThis is a war zone.\u201d Now, let\u2019s make sure we don\u2019t create a DMZ. Because when you create a DMZ\u2014a demilitarized zone, where <em>nobody<\/em> can walk there\u2014I promise you\u2014someone is walking there, and it\u2019s the kingdom of darkness. Evil will be walking there, sowing seeds of dissention, discontent, and ultimately, resentment. We know what happens with resentment\u2014it gives ground for evil to be able to divide the two of you. So, so many couples end up\u2014five, twenty, thirty years in\u2014dividing into divorce because they\u2019ve not had the courage to deal with what\u2019s broken about [their] sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, again, I\u2019m not going to claim every couple has someone in it who has been sexually abused; but when you get down to those really deep realms of heartache, shame, brokenness, and contempt, I want a good guide. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, if I am going into a dangerous place, I want somebody who has been there before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And what I hear you saying is\u2014is that love creates safety. It\u2019s the opposite of a demilitarized zone. It\u2019s a safe place where you can have a civil conversation in seeking to understand one another. A good question to ask your spouse might be: \u201cDo you feel safe with me in having these discussions?\u201d\u00a0 <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Oh my goodness!\u00a0 And \u201cWhat have I done through the years that have made it not safe that I can literally come back to and go, \u2018I ask your forgiveness,\u2019?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay. So, I\u2019m imagining somebody listening right now and thinking, \u201cI\u2019m going to go home tonight and I\u2019m going to say: \u2018I was listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. They had this guy on talking about sexual abuse. I\u2019m just wondering if, maybe, we could talk a little bit about our sexual pasts and stuff even before we were married and what might have gone on in our lives.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the other spouse goes: \u201cNo. No. No! I\u2019m not\u2014why do we need to talk about it?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just imagining this collision happening. The guy going, \u201cI\u2019m never listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> again and taking their advice!\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 What do you do if you\u2019re that husband and you go, \u201cIf I even bring this up, my wife is going to say, \u2018I\u2019m not interested in this,\u2019 and leave the room\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, I think, first of all, before you jump in, why not gain a sense of what\u2019s true about your own life. Open your heart to pray \/ open your heart to ask Jesus to begin to engage your own sexual history and where there has been harm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, rather than just jump in, step back\u2014ponder. I\u2019d love for people to buy the book and begin to read, and then, go: \u201cLook, I\u2019m starting to deal with things in my own life. And whether you want to deal with yours or not, I want you to join me in thinking through, praying through, <em>fighting<\/em> against the kingdom of darkness.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you begin to have this be a realm in which \u201cI\u2019m committed to engaging my heart for the sake of the kingdom of God,\u201d that\u2019s a much more <em>alluring<\/em> opportunity than simply coming back, going: \u201cHey, you\u2019ve been abused. Let\u2019s deal with this so we can have better sex.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And a husband will say, \u201cI\u2019m willing to be vulnerable\u2014and be vulnerable around my own past,\u201d\u2014he\u2019s opening the door and inviting his wife. As they do that \/ as she sees he is willing to do this, she may get to a point where she\u2019s ready to open that up too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s the: \u201cWill you die first?\u00a0 Will you go through the door first?\u201d\u00a0 If you\u2019re working for the other to do so, it\u2019s not a means of honor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What you\u2019re talking about\u2014in the life of a husband, who is inviting this\u2014is a tough word\u2014it\u2019s called humility. And if you want to invite your wife into some tough areas\u2014 where you may have had arguments or discussions or ended up, as you just described, bunkering up \/ having a war zone in between you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you\u2019ve got to do something in your own heart that softens it, and your wife can see it so you can engage in that conversation. That means you\u2019re going to be teachable. That means you\u2019ve got to be willing to admit how you have brought harm, or hurt, or wounded your wife. I think that is hard for a lot of guys\u2014we don\u2019t want to admit that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, in some ways, I don\u2019t think there is anything more courageous than being humble. You\u2019re the first boot into the battle, and you\u2019re the last boot to depart. That\u2019s what it means to lead your wife in this arena. Enter into\u2014you don\u2019t have to go back and share every story of how you\u2019ve encountered pornography or where it was in your life five years ago. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s the beginning of trying to say: \u201cEvil has been trying to capture my heart through my sexuality since I was almost a baby. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cNow, how do I begin to expose the schemes of the devil in a way in which all my sexual trauma is, indeed, being used by the kingdom of darkness?\u201d\u2014but it\u2019s also the realm in which God is inviting you to a whole new level of intimacy with Him, not only in the sense of what it means to be forgiven, but to know the tears of God \/ to know the <em>anger<\/em> of God on your behalf\u2014all moving your heart to a sense of new freedom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Just having a copy of <em>Healing the Wounded Heart<\/em> on the bedside table is\u2014somebody is going to notice and say: \u201cWhat\u2019s that book you\u2019re reading?\u201d and \u201cWhat\u2019s that about?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And could I just add one other word where I think humility really shows up?\u00a0 Offer to pray for your wife\u2014to name her in a prayer, and ask God to merge your hearts together as a couple, and to help you, as a husband, understand her to guide her and to gently know how to create safety. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do\u2014I think a book like this, Bob\u2014and here is what I\u2019d suggest: \u201cGet the book and begin reading it, and underlining it, and then invite your spouse to reading and underlining it as well. Then, you can start talking about your underlined portions to have conversations about.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And there is a workbook that goes along with this as well, too; right?\u00a0 So, a couple could get both the book and the workbook. I think you\u2019re right, Dennis\u2014to go through it together in that kind of, \u201cI go first and you kind of follow along the journey I\u2019m on.\u201d\u00a0 I think the point you\u2019re making is\u2014that for a couple to go through this together\u2014there\u2019s real power in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd of course, we\u2019ve got both the book and the workbook in our <em>FamilyLife<\/em> <em>Today<\/em> Resource Center. Listeners can order from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or they can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. The title of the book and the workbook, <em>Healing the Wounded Heart:<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>The Heartache of Sexual Abuse and the Hope of Transformation<\/em>. Both the book and the workbook are written by our guest today, Dr. Dan Allender. Again, order online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here on the last day of May, we want to let regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners know that this is the last opportunity you\u2019ll have to help us take full advantage of a matching-gift opportunity that has been made available to us, here at FamilyLife, this month. Some friends of the ministry\u2014who came to us and said, \u201cWe know summertime can be a challenging time for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We also know that this is your 40<sup>th<\/sup> anniversary year, and we\u2019d love to think that you can make it through the summer with a solid, financial foundation underneath the ministry.\u201d They have agreed that, during this month, they would match every donation we receive, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to a total of $350,000. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday is the last day that we have for funds to qualify for that matching-gift opportunity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWould you consider going to FamilyLifeToday.com and making an online donation today, knowing that your donation will be matched, dollar for dollar?\u00a0 Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Or you can still mail your donation to us today. As long as it is postmarked today, we\u2019re still in good shape. Send it to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBox 7111, Little Rock, AR; the zip code is 72223. Again, \u201cThanks,\u201d in advance, for your partnership with us, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, before we wrap things up today, we want to say, \u201cCongratulations!\u201d to Mike and Kathi Erosa. You know we\u2019ve been talking about anniversaries all year. Well, Mike and Kathi are not celebrating an anniversary today\u2014they\u2019ll be doing that a year from now because today is their wedding day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cCongratulations!\u201d to Mike and Kathi as they get married in Pine Grove, California. In fact, they went to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u00ae back in February. They listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> on KYCC. We just want to say, \u201cGod bless you guys, and may your marriage be everything that God wants it to be.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd by the way, you guys [Mike and Kathi] can have the day off tomorrow\u2014you don\u2019t have to tune in to listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. The rest of you\u2014hope to see you back tomorrow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. See you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304020","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304020"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304020"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304020"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304020"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304020"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304020"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304020"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}