{"id":303886,"date":"2016-02-24T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2016-02-24T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/parenting-principles\/"},"modified":"2016-02-24T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2016-02-24T17:00:00","slug":"parenting-principles","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/parenting-principles\/","title":{"rendered":"Parenting Principles"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Chris and Michelle Groff recall their son&#8217;s multiple stints in rehab and share a few of the parenting principles they learned there.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-02-24.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.6M","filesize_raw":"24748740","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2850,2835],"tags":[5332,5924,4465,5961,5962],"podcast_series":[8127],"cwp_profile":[9419,9420],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303886","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-character-development","category-raising-boys","tag-drug-abuse","tag-drug-addiction","tag-drugs","tag-teen-drug-abuse","tag-troubled-teens","podcast_series-parenting-by-design","cwp_profile-chris-groff","cwp_profile-michelle-groff","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303886\/parenting-principles","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303886\/parenting-principles","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"vIBhN6EFVQ\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/parenting-principles\/\">Parenting Principles<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/parenting-principles\/embed\/#?secret=vIBhN6EFVQ\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Parenting Principles&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"vIBhN6EFVQ\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Chris and Michelle Groff recall their son's multiple stints in rehab and share a few of the parenting principles they learned there.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-02-24.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Every parent wants their son or daughter to act right; right?\u00a0 Well, Chris Groff says, \u201cWe actually should want more than just right behavior.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>If all we\u2019re looking for is behavioral change, then we are missing the boat because behavior is driven by the heart. If all we do is surface behavioral change, then we miss the biggest issue. For a long time, that was our experience with our son. It\u2019s a <em>big<\/em> paradigm shift to start to look at conflict and mistakes as valuable opportunities. I think that\u2019s what God does with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. How can we, as parents, get to the heart of the issue with our sons and our daughters?\u00a0 We\u2019ll take time examining that today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, I\u2019ve\u2014over the years\u2014had people just say: \u201cYou\u2019ve been at FamilyLife for a long time. What\u2019s your best parenting advice?\u201d\u00a0 One of the things I\u2019ve said is: \u201cYou read the Book of Proverbs, and there are really three things that you see in there. Kids are born foolish, and you\u2019ve got to help them cultivate wisdom.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. You can learn that two ways\u2014either from the Book of Proverbs or just raise a few. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right; wisdom\u2014you can either learn it the easy way or the hard way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I said, \u201cThe second thing is that kids are born self-focused, and they have to learn how to be others-centered.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s clearly in the Book of Proverbs; and that, too, is also proven over time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cAnd the third thing is that kids are born with\u201d\u2014and this is interesting\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201cthey are born with the knowledge that there is a God. You have to introduce them to who He is and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In fact, that\u2019s the assignment, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It is!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s what a parent is supposed to do. They\u2019re supposed to take their child\u2019s hand and put it in the hand of God. It depends upon the child, however, if they are going to grab hold. <br><br>And we\u2019ve been listening to a story this week of, really, parents who were off track themselves but finally got on track through a crisis with their son, who got off into drugs and later into some serious problems with drugs; but in that process, woke up spiritually\u2014so much so that they found themselves, both, going to Dallas Theological Seminary, graduating\u2014both of them\u2014and now, being used by God to help parents know how to do it God\u2019s way. They\u2019ve written a book called <em>Parenting by Design: Discovering God\u2019s Original Plan for Your Family<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChris and Michelle Groff join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>Thanks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Thanks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We appreciate you guys being honest. I know there have been a number of people who have called in response to your story because, frankly, it\u2019s the rare parent who raises children and watches them grow up to become the perfect children they had imagined from the beginning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You have a son who has been in rehab a couple of times\u2014who, as Dennis said, struggled with addictive behavior with marijuana and with other drugs. In the process of that, you got taught some principles about parenting that turned on some lights for you. Then, you began to build that out and explore what the Scriptures have to say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that was really eye-opening for you was to understand that we all have different styles of parenting that we kind of bring to the table, whether we know it or not; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, what are some of the styles that somebody listening to this program\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014what kind of parent might they be?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Well, I think the main ones are\u2014you\u2019ve got authoritarian, and that is heavily rooted in obedience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Michelle: <\/strong>It\u2019s less about warmth and knowing the child and more about rote obedience. Then, you have permissive parenting, which you don\u2019t have boundaries. Everything is about letting them just kind of figure things out their own. Then, you have authoritative parenting, and it\u2019s our belief that that\u2019s how God parents us. I think the big concept there is\u2014it\u2019s a balance of bonding and boundaries. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, I heard somebody explain it this way years ago, and this was really helpful for me. They said: \u201cEvery child is asking two questions. Question number one is: \u2018Can I do whatever I want?\u2019\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cand question two is: \u2018Do you love me?\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Yes; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And they said, \u201cHow you answer those questions\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Love it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cthe permissive parent says, \u2018I <em>love<\/em> you so much,\u2019 and, \u2018Yes, you can probably do whatever you want\u2014up to a limit\u2019; right?\u00a0 The authoritarian parent says, \u2018There\u2019s no way you\u2019re going to do whatever you want!\u2019 and, \u2018You\u2019re going to have questions about whether I love you in the process.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cAnd the way to answer that is for a child to clearly know: \u2018I love you <em>desperately<\/em>; and no, there\u2019s absolutely no way you\u2019re going to do whatever you want.\u2019\u00a0 That\u2019s the authoritative parent\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cwhere the child understands: \u2018Mom and Dad really do love me. Mom and Dad really do have some boundaries here that I\u2019m not going to be able to cross.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 There is some security and comfort for a child in that; isn\u2019t there?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>Absolutely. I mean, I think that what they really want is the ability to do whatever they want but to know that you love them enough to put up boundaries to stop them\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014to build that fence so they can\u2019t go somewhere that will harm them physically, spiritually, or relationally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And another way to say the same thing is: \u201cRules without relationships create rebellion.\u201d\u00a0 The real tension for a parent is to keep all the rules within the context of a relationship that is filled with love, grace, and plenty of forgiveness because you\u2019re going to need it, not only personally, but you\u2019re going to need it as you forgive your child as they fail. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And this really takes us back\u2014because the foundation of what you guys are talking about in your book, <em>Parenting by Design<\/em>, and what you discovered along the way\u2014you really pulled back and said: \u201cLet\u2019s look at how God parents us, and let\u2019s figure out what God\u2019s doing with us. Then, let\u2019s parent our kids the way God parents us.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, what did you\u2014what are the principles you pull out of that that help us understand: \u201cThis is how God parents us\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>Well, you know, the crazy thing is\u2014I think, for so long, or at least in one strain of Christian parenting\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you find this rote obedience concept that your kids need to do what you say when you say it without challenge, excuse, or delay. I look at the Bible and I think, \u201cWell, gosh; if that was the way God parented us, we\u2019d all be in a heap of trouble\u201d; you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd when we talk about: \u201cWhat\u2019s the most important thing?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s a relationship with Christ\u2014\u201cWhat does that mean?\u00a0 Why does God seek a relationship with us?\u00a0 Why is it so important that we <em>know<\/em> Him and He know us?\u00a0 And why do we crave that?\u201d\u00a0 That, for us, became the framework for parenting because we <em>know<\/em> that\u2019s what God wants and expects above all. He knows we\u2019re going to fail. He knows we\u2019re going to fail a number of times. He <em>knows<\/em> we\u2019re not going to obey without challenge, excuse, or delay. Yet, He still loves us. I mean, that\u2019s why Christ had to go to the cross. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. In addition to that, you talk about kind of the beginning point of deciding \u201cWho is your audience here?\u201d as you parent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAre you parenting for the world and the applause of your peers \/ other parents?\u2014which, by the way, is <em>really<\/em> dangerous because the herd is not a good standard to raise children by. It wasn\u2019t back when I was doing it \/ Bob was doing it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But it\u2019s pretty seductive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, yes; it is!\u00a0 And it\u2019s the comparison trap. You think because you\u2019ve got your kids involved in the right type of activities\u2014even religious activities, by the way\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014you can be missing the main thing. The other thing you contrast that with, though, is parenting for the purpose of honoring God or for God\u2019s glory. Explain what you mean and what it looks like for a parent to be seeking to honor God as they raise their kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>You know, I think the biggest thing for us was understanding that things are going to happen that are tremendous opportunities to point them in the direction of Christ and of the Father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe world\u2019s view of good parenting is\u2014you go to church on time, you look great when you\u2019re doing it, and you\u2019re all smiles. When we started parenting for God\u2019s pleasure\u2014what we began to do was to see the value of conflict, for example. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, conflict is telling us there is something wrong. There is a root issue \/ there is an identity issue here: \u201cLet\u2019s take the time to resolve it, and let\u2019s find out what the real issue is,\u201d\u2014to see hardships and mistakes as valuable learning opportunities instead of something you need to cover up and paper over. It\u2019s a <em>big<\/em> paradigm shift to start to look at conflict and mistakes as valuable opportunities, but I think that\u2019s what God does with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, can you give us an illustration with\u2014you\u2019ve got two sons. I can give you one, if you can\u2019t think of one, because we had six children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>I\u2019ve got a great one; and that is, I think I was so focused with our kids on them looking right, and doing right, and punishing the behavior that I missed the anxiety that was building up in Bob that eventually led to him feeling like he had to self-medicate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, what did that look like?\u00a0 I mean, how might that have been obvious to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>Tell the story about the Christmas sweater picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Oh, well, there was one time when I wanted our Christmas card picture to just look great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Who doesn\u2019t?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>So, I had my kids out there. I mean, the whole experience was about getting them to be an extension of what I wanted our PR to look like for our family. And so, as I\u2019m yelling at them and just becoming so dysregulated\u2014and finally, I remember I was spanking them. I said, \u201c<em>You<\/em>\u2014<em>will<\/em>\u2014<em>smile<\/em>\u2014<em>for<\/em>\u2014<em>the<\/em>\u2014<em>picture<\/em>!\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 And that was kind of a sad Christmas card that year. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think the key word is <em>curiosity<\/em>. I think we need to be curious about our kids. We can, maybe, get obedience and never really know them. I think, if you can create communication\u2014where you can empathize with their struggles, even as you\u2019re holding boundaries\u2014that\u2019s the big balance that I think leads them to Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What we\u2019re talking about here sounds easy, here in a studio; but if you\u2019re going to push back against some of the mistakes they make and truly do the work of correction\u2014and try to get in there, and get to know them \/ be curious, like you\u2019re talking about\u2014it takes a lot of work sometimes we, as parents, don\u2019t want to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll never forget finding out one of our children\u2014and this is the advantage of having six. You don\u2019t know which one it was\u2014had been found cheating on a test. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I\u2019m on the radio everyday across the country. Everybody knows that my kids are going to be better than normal; you know?\u00a0 [Laughter] It just has to happen\u2014right?\u2014by osmosis because they are near the Bible. And yet, you have to choke down, sometimes, as a parent, in a church with your friends\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014on the radio. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014well, on the radio\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014yes\u2014or in a small group and say: \u201cYou know, my kid really surprised me here!\u00a0 What is going on?\u201d\u00a0 Well, there was an explanation for this child\u2019s desire to cheat. He was struggling in school because of some physical disabilities that hit him. I think it was a compensation of trying to do well somewhere that really wasn\u2019t his bailiwick. He wasn\u2019t\u2014he wasn\u2019t an \u201cA\u201d student \/ he wasn\u2019t an honor student\u2014and his athleticism had been taken away from him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I think what both of you are saying here is: \u201cIf, as parents, our goal is: \u2018We want you to conform to a standard. We want you to obey. We want you to act with character,\u2019\u2014which we do \/ I\u2019m not saying that goal is not important\u2014but if you say, \u2018That goal is more important than me understanding what\u2019s going on in your heart\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u2018and why you are cheating. All I care about is your quitting cheating. I don\u2019t care about why you were cheating in the first place,\u2019 we\u2019re missing something, as a parent, if our focus\u2014this is how you raise Pharisees. You get the outward behavior all cleaned up, and you ignore the internal.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>Right. I mean, if all we are looking for is behavioral change, then we\u2019re missing the boat because behavior is driven by the heart. If all we do is surface behavioral change, then we miss the biggest issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor a long time, I think that was our experience with our son, and it was an abrupt change. That doesn\u2019t mean, if you seek heart change, you\u2019re going to get behavioral change that\u2019s 100 percent perfect all the time; but that\u2019s the most important thing for a parent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>I think a great example of that was\u2014after we dropped Bob off at that treatment facility the first time, with heavy hearts, we came home, we went out to the mailbox, and we saw that he had gotten on the honor roll. You can intimidate them into wearing a mask. When you want them to be a reflection of you\u2014sometimes, you are satisfied with outward compliance without really knowing who they are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you guys have been through the school of hard knocks that have gotten you to where you are with your understanding of parenting. You\u2019ve also been trained in the counseling program at Dallas Theological Seminary. You\u2019ve written a book, you\u2019ve done workshops, and you\u2019ve talked with lots of parents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI told you earlier that people ask me kind of \u201cWhat\u2019s your best advice on parenting?\u201d If you look back on your experience and what you\u2019ve learned\u2014and you\u2019re sitting down with young parents\u2014they just brought home a baby or they\u2019ve got a two-year-old and they\u2019re saying, \u201cOkay, we want to do this right,\u201d\u2014and you\u2019ve got one piece of advice to give them, is there something that stands out?\u00a0 Is it this idea of focus on the heart and the relationship ahead of the obedience?\u00a0 Is that the main thing?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>I think you\u2019ve got to go back to your idea of \u201cWhere is your identity rooted?\u201d and be willing to really look at \u201cWhat motivates me?\u201d\u00a0 It is so hard to strip away what we <em>think<\/em> is motivating us and what is <em>really<\/em> motivating us\u2014not only in our own lives but in our parenting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, our own identity \/ our own sense of \u201cAre we parenting because we have something we are trying to accomplish for ourselves?\u201d\u00a0 or have we really pulled this back and said: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWhat\u2019s God all about, and what could we do that\u2019s best for our child?\u201d\u00a0 I think that\u2019s <em>key<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>And I think to add to that\u2014so, it\u2019s first looking at your agenda: \u201cWhat\u2019s your agenda?\u00a0 Is it to create children that make you look good?\u2014that make you proud, in a secular sense?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>Once you\u2019ve gotten to that realization, I think, for <em>me<\/em>, the most important piece of parenting advice that I could give would be: \u201cWalk, side by side, with your kids through life, empathetically. You don\u2019t have to condone or accept all their choices, but walk with them and point them to God.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cPoint them to truth. Give them a standard to be able to live their lives by, but love them as you do that.\u201d If you do that, then you\u2019re going to be operating according to what the Scriptures talk about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys continue in the book to go back to this concept of: \u201cWe\u2019re really parented by God, and we need to see from the Bible how we are parented.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCould you give us the essence of how you see God parenting us and kind of how you sought to apply that in your relationship with your two sons?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>What I see when I look at God\u2014just the over-arching desire of God, which still flummoxes me a little bit\u2014is He really, really, really loves us, and He wants us to respond to Him in love. He\u2019s willing to put up with all our mistakes\u2014big ones \/ little ones\u2014in return for that genuine exchange of love. It\u2019s that <em>Abba<\/em> Father kind of acceptance of Him and that He already gives to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRecognizing that \/ responding like that\u2014that\u2019s the way I want my kids to respond to me. I want them to know I love them unconditionally, and I want to know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014I want to know the good, the bad, but then, be able to say: \u201cI love you. There\u2019ll be consequences, of course; but my love for you will never change.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s the kind of relationship I want to have with my kids. In those moments, when we have that, that\u2019s the real joy of parenting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Michelle, when I asked that question, \u201cWhat did you learn from how God parented you that you applied with your sons?\u201d you immediately started nodding your head. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Well, because I just <em>love<\/em> the Garden [of Eden] story. To me, that\u2019s such a blueprint for us. It\u2019s clear that God was the authority in the Garden. He had boundaries\u2014\u201cYou don\u2019t eat from this tree,\u201d\u2014but He also gave lots of choices: \u201cYou can name the animals. Other than this tree, you can eat from wherever you want.\u201d\u00a0 To me, there is a certain amount of\u2014it\u2019s clear that He was the authority\u2014He had boundaries, but He did give choices. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen Adam and Eve made that choice, He met them and He asked, \u201cWhere are you?\u201d\u00a0 He wanted to walk alongside them. There were consequences for their actions; but you notice, as He ushered them out of the Garden, He covered their shame. They were still in relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut clearly, the lesson I took from that is: \u201cHow do you give your kids boundaries?\u00a0 You give them choices within those boundaries; and then, you\u2014when they cross those boundaries, you have consequences; but you give them with empathy.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I think about how God did love us, coming out of the Garden. Immediately after Adam and Eve betrayed God, He set about a story of redemption\u2014the story of the Savior\u2014and began to work out what He already knew He was going to do, which was send the second member of the Trinity to become flesh and dwell among us and demonstrate what His love looked like, in person, through Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf there is a listener right now listening to us, who is going, \u201cYou know, I don\u2019t know how God parented me because I don\u2019t know God,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s through His Son, Jesus Christ, and crying out to Him: \u201cBe merciful to me, a sinner. Forgive my sins.\u201d\u00a0 And you know what?\u00a0 He will come, He will clean you up, and He will indwell you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I\u2019ll tell you what\u2014in my opinion, He, along with the Holy Spirit, are the two best friends you have, as parents, if you want to parent as God as God has parented you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and that\u2019s what you guys are advocating for in the book, <em>Parenting by Design<\/em>. You are talking about parents looking at how we have been parented by God and applying those same principles in how we parent our children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll just mention here, Dennis, we\u2019ve got copies of the book, <em>Parenting by Design<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Our listeners can get a copy by going to FamilyLifeToday.com to request theirs, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014either go online, FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order <em>Parenting by Design<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>And this, I think, would be a good book for parents to go through with other parents. I think just the process we\u2019ve talked about this week\u2014the process of being in community with others as you work through these things\u2014I think would be really helpful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I just want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d to you, Chris and Michelle, for not quitting \/ for facing some tough days with your children as they grew up into adulthood, and for turning your trials into triumphs, and putting them between two covers in a book and sharing your story with others because it brings a lot of hope to people to hear other followers of Christ, who haven\u2019t quit, and who are still hanging in there and want to help others in the process. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chris: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and we should say here, too, \u201cThanks for staying together,\u201d because there are a lot of couples who, in the midst of what you guys have gone through, rather than getting together and getting on the same page\u2014they turn against one another, and it begins to impact their marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd at FamilyLife, one of the things we\u2019re all about is strong, healthy marriages. That\u2019s been at the core for us for 40 years. In fact, we\u2019re celebrating our 40<sup>th<\/sup> anniversary this year. As we celebrate, we are celebrating all of the tens of thousands of anniversaries that have happened\u2014I should probably say hundreds of thousands of anniversaries that have happened over the years as a result of how God has used this ministry in people\u2019s lives. In fact, we want to say, \u201cHappy Anniversary!\u201d today to Ralph and Candace Trenary who are celebrating ten years together today. They listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> on KQCV. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re glad to have them as listeners and want to wish them a \u201cHappy Anniversary.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA lot of folks who have gone to FamilyLifeToday.com and given us their anniversary dates so that we can send you some tips on how this can be your best anniversary ever this year. We\u2019ve got some ideas for you, and we\u2019ll be in touch with you right before your anniversary to share some of those tips with you. But go to FamilyLifeToday.com and leave us your anniversary so we can help you celebrate this year. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, let me just also add a word of thanks to those of you who make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible\u2014those of you who are financial supporters of this ministry, and especially those of you who are Legacy Partners. This month, we are hoping that we will see 20 new Legacy Partners in every state where <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is heard. If you would like to consider becoming a Legacy Partner, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the button that says, \u201cDONATE,\u201d to find out more; or call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Just say, \u201cI\u2019m interested in finding out more about becoming a Legacy Partner.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to encourage you to be back with us when we\u2019re going to talk about boys becoming men: \u201cWhat is it that we need to be doing, as dads, to help our sons make the leap into manhood?\u201d\u00a0 Randy Stinson is going to join us. I hope you can be here as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. 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