{"id":303822,"date":"2016-01-08T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2016-01-08T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/onward\/"},"modified":"2016-01-08T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2016-01-08T17:00:00","slug":"onward","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/onward\/","title":{"rendered":"Onward"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Russell Moore | Series: Engaging the Culture | How do we engage with the culture around us? Author Russell Moore describes what he sees happening in the culture and explains what moms and dads can do to address it. Russell advises engaging the culture with kindness and love, remembering that the same people who disagree with us now may one day be our brothers and sisters in Christ.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Russell Moore describes what he sees happening in the culture and explains what moms and dads can do to address it. Russell advises engaging the culture with kindness and love.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-01-08.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.25M","filesize_raw":"25427863","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2821],"tags":[5937,5935,5936,5938],"podcast_series":[8120],"cwp_profile":[9177],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303822","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-reaching-out","tag-cultural-christianity","tag-faith-in-the-bible","tag-how-to-share-the-gospel","tag-what-is-christianity","podcast_series-engaging-the-culture","cwp_profile-russell-moore","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303822\/onward","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303822\/onward","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"9pyrS70PQ8\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/onward\/\">Onward<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/onward\/embed\/#?secret=9pyrS70PQ8\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Onward&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"9pyrS70PQ8\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Russell Moore describes what he sees happening in the culture and explains what moms and dads can do to address it. Russell advises engaging the culture with kindness and love.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-01-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Russell Moore says we have to make sure we care more about representing Jesus correctly than about what others think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Sometimes, people say, \u201cHow do we talk about these issues without being seen as bigots?\u201d My response to that is: \u201cI don\u2019t care whether or not I\u2019m seen as a bigot. I care about whether I am a bigot.\u201d So I have to say, \u201cAm I speaking to people with a biblical framework, with an understanding of love for that person?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>for Friday, January 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019re going to spend time today talking about what it means to stand firm in the faith in a culture that\u2019s built on shifting sand. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Thanks for joining us. I hope the conversation we\u2019ve been having this week\u2014about where the culture is, where we are, how we engage with the culture\u2014I hope husbands and wives and moms and dads are finding this helpful because I think a lot of us are aware of the fact that it\u2019s a new day \/ \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\/ aware of the fact that things we used to take for granted we can no longer take for granted. We had better be proactive in thinking about how we are going to engage with the culture around us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Especially, as married couples and as families, who are on a mission, we need to know what we\u2019re up against, and not be afraid of it, but know what it is God\u2019s Word says about it and \u201cHow should we handle it?\u201d We\u2019ve got a good friend, who\u2019s back with us in the studio again. Russell Moore joins us\u2014Russell\u2014 good to have you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Good to be with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019ve written a book called <em>Onward: Engaging the Culture without Losing the Gospel<\/em>. I don\u2019t know if you would describe yourself as a social scientist of sorts but one who looks at society and culture through the lens of theology and the Bible. I would certainly speak of you in that way. You seem to have a keen eye for what\u2019s taking place, and you\u2019ve written about it in your book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tExplain to us and just give us a high fly-by of what you see changing in our culture today and what moms and dads, husbands and wives, single people ought to know, as they confront this personally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Well the main reason why I wrote <em>Onward<\/em> is because I see a lot of Christians, who are hand wringing. They are acting as though we are in a very difficult situation that no one\u2019s ever been in before, and the future is so dark and bleak. I don\u2019t think the future is dark and bleak at all. As a matter of fact, I think the future is very <em>bright<\/em> for the church. A lot of that has to do with what\u2019s happening in American culture right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t think the shaking of American culture is a sign that God is giving up on the church. I think it may well be a sign that God is <em>rescuing<\/em> the church from some things that the church had been involved in that we should never have been involved in. So it\u2019s making a very clear distinction between the church and the world\u2014what we have happening, right now, with the decline of cultural Christianity \/ with the way that Christianity is becoming <em>stranger<\/em> to the people around us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo when we\u2019re talking about the things that we believe\u2014<em>before<\/em>, we could kind of assume that people aspired to the kind of marriage and family, for instance, that we would talk about. Even if they didn\u2019t live up to it, that\u2019s what they wanted. Their parents had that sort of life, and they knew that they eventually wanted to get there. We could come in and say, \u201cJesus is the way you get there.\u201d <em>Now<\/em>, not only do they often disagree with us on those things, they can\u2019t even understand them at all. That\u2019s <em>not<\/em> a new place for the church to be\u2014that\u2019s where the church <em>was<\/em> in Corinth, in Ephesus, in Jerusalem; and it\u2019s where the church <em>is<\/em> in many places around the world right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have to be the people of God, and to understand that Jesus is sovereign, and He\u2019s given us what we <em>need<\/em> in order to be on mission in this culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We, earlier this week, asked Larry Osborne if he felt like we were in post-Christian America\u2014that we\u2019ve seen what\u2019s happened in Europe. I don\u2019t know if I think we\u2019d say the church in Europe is in a great place too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMaybe you\u2019d say the church everywhere is in a great place because it\u2019s the church\u2014and no matter what your cultural environment is\u2014being in the church is a good place. Do you think we\u2019re in the same place today that Europe was 30\/40 years ago? Are we headed in that direction?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> No, I don\u2019t. I don\u2019t think we\u2019re in post-Christian America because that assumes that we previously had a Christian America. I think that we are going to continue to have a secularizing in American culture and, at the same time, a vibrant Christian presence in American culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of that has to do with the fact that, in America, we have a revitalizing of Christianity through immigrant populations. Some of the most vibrant forces for Christianization that we have in this country are coming from people who don\u2019t speak English as a first language. I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going in the direction of the European church; but what we need to do is\u2014to be connected with the places where God is working, vibrantly, around the world right now\u2014including Africa, Asia, Latin American, other places.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> One of the things that you do, Russell\u2014and I\u2019ve got to give the tip of the hat to you\u2014is you have a camera put right on your face. This is a sound-bite culture; many of these issues we\u2019re talking about from the Bible are not sound-bite answers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> They\u2019re built upon a system of belief that the Scripture teaches that really can\u2019t be done in 30 seconds\u2014at least, do them justice. I\u2019d like to know, \u201cWhat have you learned about relating to those between the ages of 18 and 35?\u201d <em>Wall<\/em> <em>Street<\/em> <em>Journal<\/em> says that about 75 percent of them believe same-sex marriage and homosexuality is okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat have you learned in relating to this group of people because they\u2019re not starting where we start in the Bible? They don\u2019t have the same premise about male and female and about marriage as we have. Their antennas are up, and they are ready to call <em>you<\/em> or <em>me<\/em> a bigot if we say anything otherwise.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Sometimes, people say, \u201cHow do we talk about these issues without being seen as bigots?\u201d My response to that is: \u201cI don\u2019t care whether or not I\u2019m seen as a bigot. I care about whether I am a bigot.\u201d So I have to say, \u201cAm I speaking to people with a biblical framework, with an understanding of love for that person?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA lot of times, what people do is\u2014they take a caricature of what Christianity is about and try to define it over against the caricature. I see our calling as to say: \u201cNo, no, no. I\u2019m not talking about the 1980\u2019s TV evangelist that you want to talk about. I\u2019m not talking about your dad that you have a problem with. Let\u2019s deal with Jesus. Let\u2019s deal with what the Scripture teaches.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen understand that, often, these issues are far more complicated than you think. Often, we have more agreement than you think we have\u2014for instance, when it comes to the sound-bite debates over marriage: \u201cLove is love,\u201d \u201cmarriage equality\u201d\u2014no one really believes that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe <em>all<\/em> believe there\u2019s some limit on what ought to be defined as a marriage. We just disagree on where that ought to be. So that can start a conversation. I think the main thing is to recognize you\u2019re not going to be able, in almost any situation, to win the argument in the moment that you\u2019re having the argument. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you want to do is bear witness to what Scripture teaches and then to have a <em>long<\/em> on-going conversation with someone\u2014if you can\u2014in their lives. Even if not, you want to plant some seeds that will then cause that person to, at a moment of crisis, think about those things, as the prodigal son does\u2014the famine comes, he comes to himself, and he remembers the words that were spoken before, and he knows where to go back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He remembered the kindness that he\u2019d been given.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Yes; exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> When you were growing up, did you have any homosexual friends? Did you have a face to homosexuality like young people do today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Not in the same direction. There were people, who were kind of \u201cconfirmed bachelors\u201d in the neighborhood\u2014everybody kind of knew what was going on\u2014but it wasn\u2019t the same situation that kids have today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s why we have to be really careful in discipleship and teaching to make sure that we\u2019re <em>not<\/em> just dealing with cultural stereotypes \/ we\u2019re not just dealing with culture war issues\u2014that we\u2019re talking about the fact that the way human sin works is\u2014that you have people, who are good in many ways, and who are fallen, as we all are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that many of the people who disagree with this think\u2014I had a lesbian activist say to me, one time, \u201cWhen people say that we\u2019re sinning, you\u2019re dehumanizing us.\u201d Then I say: \u201cOkay; then you don\u2019t understand what we mean when we say, \u2018sin,\u2019 because that\u2019s not dehumanizing\u2014that\u2019s universalizing in our way of seeing things. Now it\u2019s our fault that you hear that as dehumanizing because that means that we\u2019re not defining what we mean and teaching you Romans 1-3 in all of its fullness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBut that\u2019s what we mean, and that\u2019s what this is about.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got to teach our kids that from the very beginning: \u201cThis is what sin means as sin manifests itself in different ways with different people.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What you\u2019re mentioning here is something you talk about in the book, which is <em>convictional kindness<\/em>. You\u2019re talking about parents, men and women, husbands and wives, single people\u2014who have convictions of what is right and what is wrong from the Bible\u2014but while possessing them and holding firmly to them, they also hold firmly to a viewpoint of love and the dignity and image of God that resides in every person, who\u2019s been created.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. I think that, when we say what Jesus has given us to say, we have to say it the way He says it. I think the kindness in Scripture\u2014what Paul says to Timothy in 2 Timothy, Chapter 2\u2014that is the <em>way<\/em> that spiritual warfare is done. The voice of Christ breaks through the bondages that we all have, left to ourselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, people will think, \u201cWell, convictional kindness will mean that I\u2019ll avoid controversy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tKindness in Scripture never avoids controversy. As a matter of fact, if you\u2019re showing <em>biblical<\/em> kindness\u2014which is not niceness, it\u2019s not politeness\u2014it\u2019s actively seeking the good of the other\u2014you\u2019re going to have more controversy because some people are going to hate the conviction \/ some people are going to hate the kindness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo Jesus gets hits from one side for eating with tax collectors at Zacchaeus\u2019 house \/ he gets hit from another for calling those tax collectors to repentance; but He\u2019s carrying out His mission\u2014and that\u2019s the mission He\u2019s given to us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know the woman, who\u2019s caught in adultery, and the Pharisees that had surrounded her\u2014they actually had brought her to Jesus and were like: \u201cOh, we\u2019re going to trap Him. Now what\u2019s he going to do with this?\u201d Jesus, of course, first moved to protect the woman\u2014He asked the Pharisees, \u201cWho among you is without sin?\u201d And one by one, they dropped the stones and left. Then he began to talk to the woman about her real need. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe ultimately directed her\u2014He said, \u201cGo and sin no more.\u201d And then at the end of His life, Jesus ended up dying for that woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTo me, as I\u2019m going to school on Jesus Christ\u2014which I think all of us need to be\u2014we need to be opening the Gospels and looking at how He handled broken people, of which we are one \/ how He\u2019s dealt with us. We have to take the lessons\u2014of learning how to protect people, learning how to instruct people, how to speak the truth to people with kindness and going the extra mile with them\u2014to make sure they\u2019ve heard the truth about the gospel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> One of the things that comes to my mind, often, is the way Jesus treated the woman at the well\u2014John 4:16: \u201cJesus says to her, \u2018Woman, go get your husband.\u2019\u201d He\u2019s going there\u2014the place she doesn\u2019t want Him to address \/ her issue of sexual immorality. He knows about it \/ He\u2019s not shocked by it\u2014He speaks to it <em>directly<\/em> and then He says\u2014\u201cAnd come here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a call to repentance and a call to invitation. He\u2019s doing both at the same time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we\u2019re not always going to do that perfectly\u2014that\u2019s what it means for us to be sinners \/ we have to repent of this. Sometimes, we\u2019re going to be so heavy on the conviction that we forget to be kind. Sometimes, we\u2019re going to be heavy on the kindness that we aren\u2019t as clear about our convictions. But that\u2019s our goal\u2014is to make sure that we are speaking everything that Jesus has given us to say, and that we\u2019re recognizing that we\u2019re speaking to <em>people<\/em> who are alienated from God, and that we are not intimidated by them because we know that that\u2019s what\u2019s happening in people\u2019s lives\u2014is that people are scared of the presence of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, left to ourselves, <em>all<\/em> of us are doing what Adam and Eve were doing in the Garden\u2014hiding from the voice of God. This is a <em>painful<\/em> reality for people outside of Christ. So we continue to speak, and we do so with patience and endurance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Jesus\u2019 convictional kindness that he gave that woman at the well ultimately resulted in her conversion\u2014so much so that she went and got the whole village and brought them out to meet Christ. To me, that just speaks of how kind He was \/ how loving He was in pointing out her sin\u2014but also inviting her to believe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> That\u2019s another key point\u2014is we have to recognize people, who disagree with us\u2014including the people who <em>hate<\/em> us the most\u2014may well be our future brothers and sisters in Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, you point out the future Billy Graham\u2014in your book, don\u2019t you talk about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Yes\u2014might be drunk right now. Saul of Tarsus never went to Vacation Bible School. [Laughter] He\u2019s not a likely character to be leading the Christian church. Many of the people, who are the <em>most<\/em> hostile to us right now, in an instant, they could be turned around. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe way God works\u2014He doesn\u2019t say: \u201cOkay; well, you scandalous, previous sinner, you sit back there in the back. We\u2019ll let you go to heaven, but you\u2019ll keep your mouth shut.\u201d Typically, He puts those people into leadership and turns the world and the church upside down through them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat ought to give us a sense of perspective that: \u201cI\u2019m dealing with somebody who\u2019s, not my ultimate enemy right now\u2014just might be the person who leads my grandchildren and great grandchildren to faith in Christ.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> At the end of the day, and we\u2019ve said this in a variety of ways throughout this week\u2014but at the end of the day, we have to care more about the Kingdom than we do about anything else in life. <em>That<\/em> will reprioritize our interactions with everybody \/ the values that we have. We have to have a missional mindset\u2014as individuals \/ as families\u2014that should order how we engage with culture more than our safety, our security, our ease, our comfort; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Yes, and we ought to do it with confidence. I mean, one of the reasons why Christians are often so hand-wringing and one of the reasons Christians are, sometimes, so mean is because they\u2019re scared. If you\u2019re scared, that\u2019s going to lead to <em>meanness<\/em> because you think somebody\u2019s taking something away from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if you really have confidence that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, and you really have confidence that Jesus will build His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it, then you\u2019re going to have a kind of tranquility as you\u2019re facing the world ahead of you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou have people, who are saying that Christians are on the wrong side of history on these issues of sexual ethics. We ought to recognize we\u2019ve been on the wrong side of history since A.D. 33.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> This is where Christianity always has been. The Roman Empire used to be the right side of history\u2014it\u2019s gone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Jesus is feeling fine. [Laughter] So we ought to signal that sense of confidence that we\u2019re representing <em>Him<\/em>, and we\u2019re not the people who are somehow afraid that you\u2019re going to cause us to go extinct.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I asked Larry Osborne, when he was with us earlier this week\u2014and by the way, we\u2019re talking to Dr. Russell Moore, who has written the book, <em>Onward<\/em>. I asked Larry if he would bake the cake for the gay wedding or if he\u2019d take pictures for the gay wedding. Would you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Well, what I would want to do is to say those situations are going to depend largely on whether somebody is implicated in actually participating in the ceremony. What I would want to say is that is actually the wrong question, when it comes to freedom of conscience, because there are all kinds of Christians, who are saying, \u201cWell I would have no problem baking a cake for this wedding, so you do it.\u201d Romans 14 says\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cIf it\u2019s sin for you\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s exactly right. So we shouldn\u2019t be binding one another\u2019s consciences on that and saying, \u201cWell you need to go and do this activity,\u201d when that person says, \u201cI\u2019m using my creative gifts in a way that\u2019s going to implicate me in this.\u201d And we <em>sure<\/em> don\u2019t need the state coming in and saying, \u201cWe\u2019re going to force you to do this over against conscience, causing you to sin.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; so, would you take the pictures?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> I would take the pictures if I was there to do a journalistic sort of recording of the event. I would not take the pictures the way that most wedding photographers do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014to memorialize it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Yes. I mean, they come in and say, \u201cYou stand here, and kiss at this point, and then walk at this point.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMany wedding photographers are using their creative gifts in order to make this event appear a certain way, and to be a certain way, and to be celebrated in a certain way. I couldn\u2019t do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You have a section in your book about family and mission. I want you to comment on this because I really like what you had to say about: \u201cFamilies need to mix it up and get involved,\u00a0 get some dirt underneath their fingernails to go near some of the tough issues of our day\u2014the orphan, women who have been abused, poverty, go near the poor.\u201d Comment on that if you would because it seems, to me, as we take on these weighty issues in the culture that are being bantered back and forth, we lose some of our credibility if we haven\u2019t been there\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014helping people who will never be able to repay us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> When we\u2019re doing that \/ when we\u2019re helping those who are vulnerable and marginalized, we\u2019re taking a long-term view of the universe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why James says, in James 2, that you shouldn\u2019t make distinctions between the rich and the poor within the church because \u201cDon\u2019t you know God has chosen the poor to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we\u2019re honoring that child with Down syndrome, for instance, we\u2019re <em>not<\/em> having a charity project here\u2014we\u2019re recognizing: \u201cThis is a future ruler of the universe \/ a joint-heir with Christ.\u201d When we\u2019re ministering to that woman, who\u2019s in crisis \/ who\u2019s been in an abusive relationship\u2014she\u2019s not a ministry project for us\u2014she is an image-bearer of Jesus Himself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the reasons I think Christians <em>don\u2019t<\/em> do that\u2014they prefer to just think about it in terms of <em>issues<\/em> rather than getting involved\u2014is because there\u2019s risk involved. It\u2019s one thing to care about the poor as an issue but, when you\u2019re actually involved with someone in poverty, that\u2019s a real relationship. That gets <em>messy<\/em> and complex. It is one thing to care about orphan care \/ it\u2019s another to welcome an orphan into your home, who has all sorts of issues, perhaps, bringing in there. It\u2019s one thing to care about the life issue\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it\u2019s another thing to bring a woman, who\u2019s pregnant, into your home, who doesn\u2019t have anywhere else to go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat means we\u2019re going to risk, and we\u2019re going to find ourselves getting hurt sometimes; but it\u2019s worth it! That\u2019s what love always does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And we don\u2019t have to know all the answers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> We don\u2019t have to know all the answers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re going to go near situations, as a family, where you\u2019re going to confront things you\u2019re not going to know what to do. What I hear you saying is: \u201cThat\u2019s okay!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> \u201cThat\u2019s okay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cWe don\u2019t have to always know.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> \u201cWe don\u2019t have to always know.\u201d That\u2019s why we have a body of Christ, where the weak bear up the strong. All of us are strong in some areas and all of us are weak in some areas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s also why we have prayer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> God puts us in situations, where He demands that we seek <em>Him<\/em>. In fact, I have to ask you this one other question, as I\u2019m talking about families. Bob, you said we wake up and we find, as a family, that we\u2019re in this horrific culture today\u2014that we start railing about it, pounding the table about it, and complaining to God about where He put us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> This <em>is<\/em> where He put your family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> God decided when you\u2019d be born. God decided when you would be born again. When we sit around, railing about the culture, what we\u2019re saying to God is, \u201cWe deserve a better mission field than the one You gave us.\u201d But if God put us here, then that means God has given us every resource we need in order to bear witness to Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Russell, I just want you to know\u2014you\u2019ve become a good friend. You have an important section in your book, <em>Onward<\/em>, about the family and <em>why<\/em> the family is so important in speaking the truth to a generation and to the next. I just appreciate you sticking to following Christ\u2014both as a husband\/as a father\u2014but also as one who\u2019s a warrior for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just appreciate the diplomacy you bring as an ambassador. I always am amazed when you show up in the <em>Wall<\/em> <em>Street<\/em> <em>Journal<\/em>, or in one of the major news magazines, or TV shows. You really have done a great job of maneuvering in some really very difficult situations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, to have a camera put on your face and be asked a question that is impossible to answer in a brief period of time\u2014you do it with grace and dignity. I just want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d on behalf of our listeners, who should pray for you and for your influence, as you go forward. I pray God grants you favor and increases your borders.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russell:<\/strong> Thank you. I really am grateful for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to say, too, I hope a lot of our listeners will get a copy of your book, <em>Onward<\/em>, and get a highlighter and start reading through it, and underlining, and reading at the dinner table a few of the quotes that they pull out from your book. I really do think that this is a book that parents ought to be talking together with one another about and they ought to be engaging with their children about the themes in this book. Again, the title of the book is <em>Onward: Engaging the Culture without Losing the Gospel<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s by Russell Moore. We\u2019ve got it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. The website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-\u201dF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve also talked this week about Larry Osborne\u2019s book, <em>Thriving in Babylon<\/em>\u2014another book that I think is very helpful on this same subject. Let me encourage listeners\u2014maybe it\u2019s one \/ maybe it\u2019s both of these books that you want to get a copy of. But I think this is a subject that deserves some deeper thought and some deeper consideration.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the things that I\u2019m starting to realize is that, as the culture shifts away from what we understand is a biblical view of Christianity, the number of people, who are speaking on behalf of what the Scriptures teach is starting to fade as well. I just have to say how grateful we are, here at FamilyLife, that our listeners believe that this ministry matters\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that talking about what the Bible teaches on these subjects, even in the face of a culture that\u2019s going a different direction, that it\u2019s important that we continue to speak out. I know that they believe that because, at the end of 2015, we heard from a number of listeners, who said: \u201cWe\u2019re with you. We believe in what you\u2019re doing\u201d; and they made a yearend donation to support this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the reality is\u2014without those donations, <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> could not exist. So we are grateful for the support of our listeners \/ grateful for your participation in this ministry\u2014thankful for the Legacy Partners, who give month in and month out, and help provide the financial backbone for what\u2019s happening, here at FamilyLife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, any time you\u2019re interested in helping with a donation, we\u2019d love to hear from you. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to make a donation online. Or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014make your donation over the phone. Or you can mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd with that, we hope you have a great week. We hope you can worship together with your family in church this weekend. I hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to meet a wife who faced a very challenging situation in the first four years of her marriage to her husband. Marital intimacy was excruciatingly painful. We\u2019ll meet Jennifer Smith next week and hear how they weathered that storm in their marriage. Hope you can turn in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303822","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303822"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303822"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303822"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303822"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303822"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303822"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303822"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}