{"id":303812,"date":"2016-01-01T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2016-01-01T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/understanding-gender\/"},"modified":"2016-01-01T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2016-01-01T17:00:00","slug":"understanding-gender","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/understanding-gender\/","title":{"rendered":"Understanding Gender"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What did God have in mind when he made each of us a man or a woman? Professors Andreas and Margaret Kostenberger take us back to Genesis to discover God&#8217;s original intent for men and women.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-01-01.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.77M","filesize_raw":"23879662","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2805],"tags":[4019,5932,5933,4819,5934],"podcast_series":[8119],"cwp_profile":[9416,9417],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303812","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-gods-plan-for-marriage","tag-biblical-marriage","tag-gods-plan","tag-male-and-female","tag-roles","tag-scholar","podcast_series-gods-design-for-man-and-woman","cwp_profile-andreas-kostenberger","cwp_profile-margaret-kostenberger","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303812\/understanding-gender","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303812\/understanding-gender","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"qRpFM5D3q7\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/understanding-gender\/\">Understanding Gender<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/understanding-gender\/embed\/#?secret=qRpFM5D3q7\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Understanding Gender&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"qRpFM5D3q7\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-01-01.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-01-01.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Genesis 1 says that God created us male and female. Andreas K\u00f6stenberger says that verse from Genesis 1 is pretty significant for all of us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>What it means to be a man and a woman is central to our identity.\u00a0 Unfortunately, it\u2019s not just the culture that has infirmed it.\u00a0 It\u2019s the church as well because the culture has <em>invaded<\/em> the church.\u00a0 So, we feel like\u2014if there is to be greater unity again in the church, it\u2019s only going to be around the teaching of Scripture.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, January 1<sup>st<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We\u2019ll explore what the Bible has to say about God\u2019s design for manhood and womanhood today and see just how central it is to how He has made us.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You think there\u2019s any controversy around what we\u2019re talking about this week?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh my goodness!\u00a0 You know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, even in the church\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, think about it, Bob\u2014what is the major sexual revolution that is occurring in our world today?\u00a0 It\u2019s around gender, gender identity, and the responsibilities of husbands and wives in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 Even people, who are followers of Christ, go through a lot of biblical gymnastics to twist the Bible to make it fit what the world\u2019s teaching.\u00a0 Unfortunately, that\u2019s really not a solution.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know that our guests today on our broadcast have written a book called <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>They jumped right into the deep end of the pool on this; didn\u2019t they?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They sure did, and this is not a light read. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a very thoughtful, biblically-based book for anyone who wants to understand what the Bible teaches around gender issues.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd joining us on the broadcast are Margaret and Andreas K\u00f6stenberger.\u00a0 Welcome back to the broadcast.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Thanks for having us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Thank you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Margaret is a mom first\u2014well, not first and foremost; I guess follower of Christ, first and foremost\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014wife, mom, and also, an adjunct professor of Women\u2019s Studies at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina.\u00a0 Her husband Andreas, who is also a senior research professor of New Testament and Biblical Theology at\u00a0 Southeastern, also, teaches there; and you guys joined together to collaborate to write this book.\u00a0 Did the book cause any arguments?\u00a0 Barbara and I have written some, and I\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s why you asked the question; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s why I asked the question.\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, to tell you the truth\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014a lot of people have asked that question.\u00a0 I think the way we went about writing the book was in such a way that it really didn\u2019t create a lot of arguments.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>My question\u2019s really not a fair question because your book can\u2019t be summarized easily; but if you had to explain to someone what this book is about, how would you do it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong><em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em> in four stages\u2014it\u2019s established at creation, it\u2019s distorted at the Fall, it\u2019s restored in Christ, and it\u2019s consummated in heaven.\u00a0 Of course, we live in the stage, right now, where we still have our sinful nature.\u00a0 So, there\u2019s still distortion; but we are being restored in Christ\u2014if in fact, we are Christians \/ we have the Holy Spirit.\u00a0 So, it is a biblical, theological survey of everything the Bible teaches, from Genesis through Revelation, on God\u2019s design for man and woman.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You two have two sons\/two daughters.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to put these questions to both of you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014both can comment on it.\u00a0 What would you say to your son if he came to you, Marny, and he said to you: \u201cMom, what does it mean to be a boy or a man and not a woman?\u201d\u00a0 How would you answer him?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I think I might take him back to Genesis and tell him how God created man and woman distinct with unique roles and that they are to complement each other.\u00a0 I would say that men are\u2014a boy\u2014a man is different in biology as well as assigned role and responsibility by God.\u00a0 That would be where I\u2019d start.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And what would be the distinct roles and responsibilities?\u00a0 In other words,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014what\u2019s he supposed to do that a woman is, maybe, not supposed to do?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Okay.\u00a0 So, as he would grow in his manhood\u2014that he would understand he is to be a leader in the home\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that\u2019 he\u2019d be developing these skills and these attitudes\u2014and prayerfully, maturing in these ways to become a leader in his home.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Andreas, what would you say?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Yes, I think I would impress on him that being a man and a woman\u2014knowing God\u2019s plan is not just a tradition. I would want him to be seeing, from Scripture himself, that God created us. He has a purpose for us, as men and women, that is distinct.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would call him to courage\u2014to lead, to take initiative, to understand that women have a different role that is just as vital \/ that they are to respond to his leadership\u2014and that there\u2019s also an overlap between the roles\u2014that both are to follow Christ, to make disciples of the nations, and they are to partner together.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it is a delicate balance there between being corresponding to\u2014or congenial to\u2014so there is a sense of equality: \u201c\u2026bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.\u201d\u00a0 But at the same time, there is this dimension of helper.\u00a0 The man is leader and the woman is to come alongside the man to help <em>him<\/em> in the sense that the man is not to come alongside the woman to help <em>her<\/em>.\u00a0 I think that would be important for my son to understand.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>One of the things you are very careful to do throughout your book is\u2014you really challenge those of us, who are men and women, who are raising our sons and daughters, to not take on the traditional view of masculinity or of femininity but let the Bible speak. The way you do that is\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you say: \u201cLet the contrast be between the responsibilities of when a man becomes a husband and when a woman becomes a wife. Let those be contrasted with one another because the Bible is clear that these two creatures\u2014male and female created in God\u2019s image\u2014have different responsibilities.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\u00a0 It\u2019s not so much, as you might find in the world, some sort of a surface\/external set of characteristics: \u201cWho washes the dishes?\u201d or \u201c\u2026does the laundry?\u201d or \u201c\u2026does the shopping?\u201d\u00a0 There are some <em>deeper<\/em> realities that God built into us and that Scripture testifies to.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, in the book, we are looking at all of Scripture. We find certain <em>patterns<\/em> there that are pervasive\u2014so the ideas of male leadership and of male\/female partnership are undeniable.\u00a0 Anybody who would contest that that is what Scripture teaches\u2014I think would have an uphill battle because it just doesn\u2019t depend on any one passage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014whether it\u2019s 1 Timothy 2:12 or Genesis 2:18 and 20 \/ the references to a suitable helper\u2014you see it all the way through Scripture that men are supposed to be the leaders and women are supposed to partner with the men in subduing creation and so forth.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, let me flip the question, now. Marny, I\u2019ll come back to you.\u00a0 If you are sitting down with your daughters and saying, \u201cHere is what it means to be feminine,\u201d what are you going to say to them?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I think I would respond by saying: \u201cGod created you a woman.\u00a0 You are to complement, eventually, a man that you are likely going to marry because most people are meant to be married.\u00a0 They are few and far between that are called to be celibate.\u00a0 So, you can basically plan on that unless God is leading you otherwise.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would explore the idea: \u201cWhat does it mean to be a woman?\u201d and \u201cHow can you be prepared to be that partner for that man?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019d talk about bearing children, raising children, being ready to make your home the center of your life\u2014not that you couldn\u2019t ever do anything outside or work within it beyond some of the things that God has called to as women in supporting our husbands.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, as I brought up our \/ as <em>we<\/em> brought up our children, a lot of those things\u2014we covered a lot of those things as we discussed over dinner and practiced different practical things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Women are, in essence\u2014and I think the Apostle Paul points this out when he calls women to respect their husbands\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014they are life-givers.\u00a0 They, not only bring life into the world by bearing children, and then, nurturing and caring for them, but they are also life-giving in the marriage relationship, as they come alongside their husbands.\u00a0 How have <em>you<\/em> brought life to Andreas?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAndreas, I\u2019m going to give you a chance to think about the answer to that question while Marny answers it <em>first<\/em>.\u00a0 But how have you brought life to him, as a man?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, I guess, as his helpmeet \/ as his partner, I just try to come alongside whatever God has called <em>him<\/em> to do and to give input in the ways that God has gifted me to see.\u00a0 So, if I see that he needs help in certain ways, I help him.\u00a0 He does a lot of writing and theology. I\u2019ve studied a little bit.\u00a0 Sometimes, I have a feminine perspective or a different view that I can add; and I give that to him.\u00a0 That would be one way.\u00a0 There are probably other ways too.\u00a0 Andreas, maybe, you can pick up on that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>I really would not be where I\u2019m at today\u2014not even close\u2014without Marny.\u00a0 I think I especially appreciate\u2014I, sometimes, call her my holy spirit\u2014you know?\u2014in the sense that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>God speaks through your wife; right? [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 She has saved me from <em>countless<\/em> mistakes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, as a parent, I think Marny\u2019s, really, a life-giver.\u00a0 I think, for her, parenting\u2014she engages our children 24 \/ 7.\u00a0 You know, I think for me, there are times when I\u2019m immersed in my work; and I briefly emerge just to make sure that everybody has what they need.\u00a0 Then, I go back to my writing project; but for Marny, she is a parent <em>all<\/em> the time.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things that I appreciate <em>a<\/em> <em>lot<\/em> about your book is that you see some of the mischaracterizations, or some of the abuses, that exist among those with whom you would generally agree but where you think they push things too far.\u00a0 If you are sitting down with conservative evangelicals, who say: \u201cYes, there is a distinction between men and women in the Bible,\u201d and \u201cIn marriage, there are distinct roles,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014if you were going to give them any words of caution or any pitfalls to avoid\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014what would be the major pitfalls you\u2019d say, \u201cHere is what we need to be careful we\u2019re <em>not<\/em> saying or that we are saying clearly,\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, there are several.\u00a0 I think, maybe, to start out with one that is really important to us\u2014which is not to avoid the subject of what it means to be a man and a woman according to God\u2019s design.\u00a0 We\u2019re really concerned that \/ what we often find is\u2014that churches are afraid that this is a divisive issue.\u00a0 As a result, they are saying, \u201cWell, we\u2019re just going to focus on the gospel.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe way we see it\u2014right, at the very beginning, you have God creating the man and the woman and assigning them distinct roles.\u00a0 We look at it as instilling the courage in people and the confidence that who we are, as a man and woman, is too central to our existence to ignore.\u00a0 So, let\u2019s not avoid that topic.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s not a side issue.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>No.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mean, I do think it is interesting today that so many are silent when it comes to speaking about gender issues.\u00a0 And if they don\u2019t speak out, how are young couples, who start out their marriage together\u2014how are they going to know how you craft this thing called marriage?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there are folks, who say: \u201cWell, wait!\u00a0 We\u2019ve got differences about how we view baptism, or spiritual gifts, or all kinds of things.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cCan\u2019t this just be an area in the church where we agree to disagree and hold onto different views?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, I was going to say that we noticed, that over the last 20 or 30 years, it has been quite silent in the churches on this topic and further reason for avoiding divisiveness. Some people think that was a good thing because churches maintained somewhat of a unity, but what we\u2019ve seen in the culture has been a <em>great<\/em> downfall and at a rapid pace.\u00a0 It\u2019s affecting the church significantly, too, because we haven\u2019t been giving people the foundation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, for helping women\u2014and Andreas \/ we\u2019re trying to do our best\u2014but it just seems like the church isn\u2019t prepared for what we are seeing right now.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And both of you are teaching young people today \/ young adults who are starting out life together.\u00a0 What are you seeing in terms of their ability to understand\u00a0 what it means to be a man, what it means to be a woman, their anticipation of being a husband\/a wife\u2014a father\/a mother?\u00a0 Are they clear?\u00a0 Are they confused?\u00a0 Are they lost?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>You\u2019re right.\u00a0 That\u2019s really our heart\u2014to equip the next generation.\u00a0 And we never cease to be amazed, even in churches \/ in Bible-believing churches the amount of ignorance and obliviousness there is to what the Bible teaches on the subject.\u00a0 I think we must not assume that our young people know what the Bible teaches on what it means to be a man and a woman.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Moms and dads, who are listening to this broadcast\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014<em>you<\/em> are the primary givers of the model of what God has in mind for being a man \/ being a woman under the authority of Jesus Christ in your children\u2019s lives.\u00a0 You can\u2019t take them to church and expect Sunday school to do.\u00a0 You can\u2019t take them to youth group\u2014you can\u2019t take them to a Christian school \/ a Christian college\u2014and hope they\u2019ll get it there. They must have it taught at home and have it modeled at home\u2014explain what it means to be a man in this culture \/ what it means to be a woman and feel comfortable in that gender identity.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay: \u201cDon\u2019t shy away from addressing this \/ we\u2019ve got to tackle this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs this something that can be a preferential issue?\u00a0 Can we just agree to disagree with our brothers and sisters in Christ on this one?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, we think that Scripture is, actually, quite clear. I think what we see is there is unnecessary confusion on this issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would urge people to search the Scriptures for themselves\u2014to read our book with the Scriptures in hand.\u00a0 We\u2019re basically just trying to be a witness to God\u2019s design.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I think the church is to be salt and light on what it means to be a man and a woman\u2014our sexual identity.\u00a0 You know, if we didn\u2019t realize that until recently, I think we should now, in light of recent developments in our culture.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 A lot of our listeners, Andreas, who are hearing us today, are saying: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 I\u2019m not teaching a class\u2014I\u2019m raising the next generation of boys and girls who are going to take our place.\u00a0 And some of the things our sons and daughters are running into at school, in the marketplace, on football teams and cheerleading practice, etc., are getting pretty bizarre.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou tell a story in your book about a little boy by the name of Alex. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want you to tell the story of what happened with him, but I think what\u2019s needed here is\u2014just coach parents on how they are going to handle a number of conflicting messages that are going to come at them and their children and how we are compassionate and gracious as we confront these distortions of what God created.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Actually, I got this from a <em>New York Times<\/em> editorial.\u00a0 So, this is a real true-life story.\u00a0 Little Alex identified as a girl and would wear dresses occasionally at home. The parents, for a while, just told him to keep those urges under control and that he was a boy. But at some point, they had kind of a change of heart\u2014they realized: \u201cAs parents, would our role not be to just discover who Alex really is in his heart of hearts?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they talked to the teacher; and they talked to some of the parents.\u00a0 Then, they allowed the boy, Alex, to wear a pink and purple dress to school one day.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe way the <em>New York Times<\/em> told that story was as a story of liberation\u2014that the parents were liberated to understand that it\u2019s okay.\u00a0 They don\u2019t always have to suppress those urges but to allow the child to express them freely and just to be sensitive to the other parents and children in the class.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, how are you equipping your children to handle these issues?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, I do have to say that we\u2019ve homeschooled our children for the most part.\u00a0 So, we are equipping our children in our own home every day. Not everybody home schools\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and they [her children] don\u2019t have to face the kind of conflicts \/ that Alex might be in the classroom with them.\u00a0 So, you could home school\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that would be one answer.\u00a0 But Andreas, you have some\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, there\u2019s a lot to be said for equipping our children\u2014thoroughly grounding them in Scripture\u2014for the time when they will be in high school \/ in college\u2014when they have to know who they are and just to embrace the fact that God created them a certain way\u2014as part of their faith commitment\u2014and to understand that the culture, that does not believe in God, simply\u2014within their own way of thinking\u2014has to attribute gender to within the humanistic framework.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I became a Christian when I was 23, at the end of college.\u00a0 So, I can still remember thinking as a non-Christian.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>So, it\u2019s not hard for me, personally, to put myself in the position of someone who doesn\u2019t believe in God and think, \u201cOkay; obviously, if I were them, I would think about gender probably similar to the way they do.\u201d\u00a0 Then, as a Christian, engage them\u2014helping them understand that ultimately this is a lordship issue \/ this is an authority issue, even for Christians.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve seen too many Christians\u2014who are following what Scripture teaches in most other areas of life\u2014but when it comes to this area, they go by their preferences.\u00a0 Some of the choices they make are lifestyle choices that are based on who has the higher paying job or other decisions like that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I would just add to what you shared there\u2014I think our kids need a biblical worldview \/ they need to think from the Scripture, not to the Scripture, and make sure that\u2019s dictating what they are thinking about other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs soon as you look at the Bible, you are going to learn we are all broken.\u00a0 I\u2019m broken \/ you\u2019re broken\u2014the kids you go to school with are broken.\u00a0 They are going to express that brokenness in various ways.\u00a0 Some, because of the culture we\u2019re in, are going to express it through sexual identity\u2014a crisis of sorts\u2014and maybe, do some strange things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat our children need to know how to do is\u2014is how to respond with compassion, with love, with grace\u2014which is how our Savior dealt with people who were broken \/ who were sinners.\u00a0 Then, share with them the real need of their soul, which is a relationship with Jesus Christ.\u00a0 He\u2019s the One who can heal. He\u2019s the One who can redeem, and give purpose, and help people find their true identity as God created it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I just say\u2014we\u2019ve had a lot of guests, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, over the years, Bob\u2014a lot of books we\u2019ve recommended.\u00a0 I do not remember a book that has been more thoroughly biblical than this book that Andreas and Marny have written. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s called <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>.\u00a0 If you are looking for a source book to know how to handle some of these tough issues, and to know where they are found in Scripture, and how to go about addressing them\u2014this book would be great for singles, marrieds, parents, grandparents alike.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ve got the book in our <em>FamilyLife<\/em> <em>Today<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 So, our listeners can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy of the book.\u00a0 Because it\u2019s a holiday, our phones are not being answered live today.\u00a0 So, that\u2019s probably the best way for you to get in touch with us\u2014is to go to FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You\u2019ll see information there about how you can order the book from us, online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014the title of the book: <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman: Equipping a New Generation to Live Out God\u2019s Design<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd as we wrap up our first program of 2016, we just want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who made a yearend contribution in support of the ministry.\u00a0 We still don\u2019t have the final word yet on the matching-gift challenge that was presented to us, but we\u2019ll let you know as soon as we can how we did in regard to that matching gift.\u00a0 But thank you for your support of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, here at the end of 2015, and throughout the year.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We are grateful for your partnership with us, and we want to make sure we continue to be good stewards of the money that you\u2019ve entrusted to us as we seek to wisely use it so that we can most effectively develop godly marriages and families\u2014the kind of marriages and families that really do change the world, one home at a time.\u00a0 We\u2019re very grateful for your support of the ministry, and we look forward to 2016 and a great year together with you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to begin a week-long conversation about how we live as followers of Christ in a culture that increasingly is moving away from Christian beliefs and Christian values. Larry Osborne is going to join us in the first half of the week \/ Russell Moore will be with us for the second half of the week.\u00a0 And we\u2019ll explore that subject.\u00a0 Hope you can be here all week long.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 Help for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.77M"],"filesize_raw":["23879662"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303812.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303812.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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did God have in mind when he made each of us a man or a woman? Professors Andreas and Margaret Kostenberger take us back to Genesis to discover God's original intent for men and women.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2016-01-01.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Genesis 1 says that God created us male and female. Andreas K\u00f6stenberger says that verse from Genesis 1 is pretty significant for all of us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>What it means to be a man and a woman is central to our identity.\u00a0 Unfortunately, it\u2019s not just the culture that has infirmed it.\u00a0 It\u2019s the church as well because the culture has <em>invaded<\/em> the church.\u00a0 So, we feel like\u2014if there is to be greater unity again in the church, it\u2019s only going to be around the teaching of Scripture.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, January 1<sup>st<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We\u2019ll explore what the Bible has to say about God\u2019s design for manhood and womanhood today and see just how central it is to how He has made us.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You think there\u2019s any controversy around what we\u2019re talking about this week?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh my goodness!\u00a0 You know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, even in the church\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, think about it, Bob\u2014what is the major sexual revolution that is occurring in our world today?\u00a0 It\u2019s around gender, gender identity, and the responsibilities of husbands and wives in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 Even people, who are followers of Christ, go through a lot of biblical gymnastics to twist the Bible to make it fit what the world\u2019s teaching.\u00a0 Unfortunately, that\u2019s really not a solution.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know that our guests today on our broadcast have written a book called <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>They jumped right into the deep end of the pool on this; didn\u2019t they?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They sure did, and this is not a light read. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a very thoughtful, biblically-based book for anyone who wants to understand what the Bible teaches around gender issues.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd joining us on the broadcast are Margaret and Andreas K\u00f6stenberger.\u00a0 Welcome back to the broadcast.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Thanks for having us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Thank you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Margaret is a mom first\u2014well, not first and foremost; I guess follower of Christ, first and foremost\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014wife, mom, and also, an adjunct professor of Women\u2019s Studies at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina.\u00a0 Her husband Andreas, who is also a senior research professor of New Testament and Biblical Theology at\u00a0 Southeastern, also, teaches there; and you guys joined together to collaborate to write this book.\u00a0 Did the book cause any arguments?\u00a0 Barbara and I have written some, and I\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s why you asked the question; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s why I asked the question.\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, to tell you the truth\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014a lot of people have asked that question.\u00a0 I think the way we went about writing the book was in such a way that it really didn\u2019t create a lot of arguments.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>My question\u2019s really not a fair question because your book can\u2019t be summarized easily; but if you had to explain to someone what this book is about, how would you do it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong><em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em> in four stages\u2014it\u2019s established at creation, it\u2019s distorted at the Fall, it\u2019s restored in Christ, and it\u2019s consummated in heaven.\u00a0 Of course, we live in the stage, right now, where we still have our sinful nature.\u00a0 So, there\u2019s still distortion; but we are being restored in Christ\u2014if in fact, we are Christians \/ we have the Holy Spirit.\u00a0 So, it is a biblical, theological survey of everything the Bible teaches, from Genesis through Revelation, on God\u2019s design for man and woman.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You two have two sons\/two daughters.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to put these questions to both of you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014both can comment on it.\u00a0 What would you say to your son if he came to you, Marny, and he said to you: \u201cMom, what does it mean to be a boy or a man and not a woman?\u201d\u00a0 How would you answer him?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I think I might take him back to Genesis and tell him how God created man and woman distinct with unique roles and that they are to complement each other.\u00a0 I would say that men are\u2014a boy\u2014a man is different in biology as well as assigned role and responsibility by God.\u00a0 That would be where I\u2019d start.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And what would be the distinct roles and responsibilities?\u00a0 In other words,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014what\u2019s he supposed to do that a woman is, maybe, not supposed to do?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Okay.\u00a0 So, as he would grow in his manhood\u2014that he would understand he is to be a leader in the home\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that\u2019 he\u2019d be developing these skills and these attitudes\u2014and prayerfully, maturing in these ways to become a leader in his home.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Andreas, what would you say?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Yes, I think I would impress on him that being a man and a woman\u2014knowing God\u2019s plan is not just a tradition. I would want him to be seeing, from Scripture himself, that God created us. He has a purpose for us, as men and women, that is distinct.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would call him to courage\u2014to lead, to take initiative, to understand that women have a different role that is just as vital \/ that they are to respond to his leadership\u2014and that there\u2019s also an overlap between the roles\u2014that both are to follow Christ, to make disciples of the nations, and they are to partner together.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it is a delicate balance there between being corresponding to\u2014or congenial to\u2014so there is a sense of equality: \u201c\u2026bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.\u201d\u00a0 But at the same time, there is this dimension of helper.\u00a0 The man is leader and the woman is to come alongside the man to help <em>him<\/em> in the sense that the man is not to come alongside the woman to help <em>her<\/em>.\u00a0 I think that would be important for my son to understand.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>One of the things you are very careful to do throughout your book is\u2014you really challenge those of us, who are men and women, who are raising our sons and daughters, to not take on the traditional view of masculinity or of femininity but let the Bible speak. The way you do that is\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you say: \u201cLet the contrast be between the responsibilities of when a man becomes a husband and when a woman becomes a wife. Let those be contrasted with one another because the Bible is clear that these two creatures\u2014male and female created in God\u2019s image\u2014have different responsibilities.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\u00a0 It\u2019s not so much, as you might find in the world, some sort of a surface\/external set of characteristics: \u201cWho washes the dishes?\u201d or \u201c\u2026does the laundry?\u201d or \u201c\u2026does the shopping?\u201d\u00a0 There are some <em>deeper<\/em> realities that God built into us and that Scripture testifies to.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, in the book, we are looking at all of Scripture. We find certain <em>patterns<\/em> there that are pervasive\u2014so the ideas of male leadership and of male\/female partnership are undeniable.\u00a0 Anybody who would contest that that is what Scripture teaches\u2014I think would have an uphill battle because it just doesn\u2019t depend on any one passage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014whether it\u2019s 1 Timothy 2:12 or Genesis 2:18 and 20 \/ the references to a suitable helper\u2014you see it all the way through Scripture that men are supposed to be the leaders and women are supposed to partner with the men in subduing creation and so forth.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, let me flip the question, now. Marny, I\u2019ll come back to you.\u00a0 If you are sitting down with your daughters and saying, \u201cHere is what it means to be feminine,\u201d what are you going to say to them?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I think I would respond by saying: \u201cGod created you a woman.\u00a0 You are to complement, eventually, a man that you are likely going to marry because most people are meant to be married.\u00a0 They are few and far between that are called to be celibate.\u00a0 So, you can basically plan on that unless God is leading you otherwise.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would explore the idea: \u201cWhat does it mean to be a woman?\u201d and \u201cHow can you be prepared to be that partner for that man?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019d talk about bearing children, raising children, being ready to make your home the center of your life\u2014not that you couldn\u2019t ever do anything outside or work within it beyond some of the things that God has called to as women in supporting our husbands.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, as I brought up our \/ as <em>we<\/em> brought up our children, a lot of those things\u2014we covered a lot of those things as we discussed over dinner and practiced different practical things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Women are, in essence\u2014and I think the Apostle Paul points this out when he calls women to respect their husbands\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014they are life-givers.\u00a0 They, not only bring life into the world by bearing children, and then, nurturing and caring for them, but they are also life-giving in the marriage relationship, as they come alongside their husbands.\u00a0 How have <em>you<\/em> brought life to Andreas?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAndreas, I\u2019m going to give you a chance to think about the answer to that question while Marny answers it <em>first<\/em>.\u00a0 But how have you brought life to him, as a man?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, I guess, as his helpmeet \/ as his partner, I just try to come alongside whatever God has called <em>him<\/em> to do and to give input in the ways that God has gifted me to see.\u00a0 So, if I see that he needs help in certain ways, I help him.\u00a0 He does a lot of writing and theology. I\u2019ve studied a little bit.\u00a0 Sometimes, I have a feminine perspective or a different view that I can add; and I give that to him.\u00a0 That would be one way.\u00a0 There are probably other ways too.\u00a0 Andreas, maybe, you can pick up on that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>I really would not be where I\u2019m at today\u2014not even close\u2014without Marny.\u00a0 I think I especially appreciate\u2014I, sometimes, call her my holy spirit\u2014you know?\u2014in the sense that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>God speaks through your wife; right? [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 She has saved me from <em>countless<\/em> mistakes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, as a parent, I think Marny\u2019s, really, a life-giver.\u00a0 I think, for her, parenting\u2014she engages our children 24 \/ 7.\u00a0 You know, I think for me, there are times when I\u2019m immersed in my work; and I briefly emerge just to make sure that everybody has what they need.\u00a0 Then, I go back to my writing project; but for Marny, she is a parent <em>all<\/em> the time.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things that I appreciate <em>a<\/em> <em>lot<\/em> about your book is that you see some of the mischaracterizations, or some of the abuses, that exist among those with whom you would generally agree but where you think they push things too far.\u00a0 If you are sitting down with conservative evangelicals, who say: \u201cYes, there is a distinction between men and women in the Bible,\u201d and \u201cIn marriage, there are distinct roles,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014if you were going to give them any words of caution or any pitfalls to avoid\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014what would be the major pitfalls you\u2019d say, \u201cHere is what we need to be careful we\u2019re <em>not<\/em> saying or that we are saying clearly,\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, there are several.\u00a0 I think, maybe, to start out with one that is really important to us\u2014which is not to avoid the subject of what it means to be a man and a woman according to God\u2019s design.\u00a0 We\u2019re really concerned that \/ what we often find is\u2014that churches are afraid that this is a divisive issue.\u00a0 As a result, they are saying, \u201cWell, we\u2019re just going to focus on the gospel.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe way we see it\u2014right, at the very beginning, you have God creating the man and the woman and assigning them distinct roles.\u00a0 We look at it as instilling the courage in people and the confidence that who we are, as a man and woman, is too central to our existence to ignore.\u00a0 So, let\u2019s not avoid that topic.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s not a side issue.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>No.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mean, I do think it is interesting today that so many are silent when it comes to speaking about gender issues.\u00a0 And if they don\u2019t speak out, how are young couples, who start out their marriage together\u2014how are they going to know how you craft this thing called marriage?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there are folks, who say: \u201cWell, wait!\u00a0 We\u2019ve got differences about how we view baptism, or spiritual gifts, or all kinds of things.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cCan\u2019t this just be an area in the church where we agree to disagree and hold onto different views?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, I was going to say that we noticed, that over the last 20 or 30 years, it has been quite silent in the churches on this topic and further reason for avoiding divisiveness. Some people think that was a good thing because churches maintained somewhat of a unity, but what we\u2019ve seen in the culture has been a <em>great<\/em> downfall and at a rapid pace.\u00a0 It\u2019s affecting the church significantly, too, because we haven\u2019t been giving people the foundation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, for helping women\u2014and Andreas \/ we\u2019re trying to do our best\u2014but it just seems like the church isn\u2019t prepared for what we are seeing right now.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And both of you are teaching young people today \/ young adults who are starting out life together.\u00a0 What are you seeing in terms of their ability to understand\u00a0 what it means to be a man, what it means to be a woman, their anticipation of being a husband\/a wife\u2014a father\/a mother?\u00a0 Are they clear?\u00a0 Are they confused?\u00a0 Are they lost?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>You\u2019re right.\u00a0 That\u2019s really our heart\u2014to equip the next generation.\u00a0 And we never cease to be amazed, even in churches \/ in Bible-believing churches the amount of ignorance and obliviousness there is to what the Bible teaches on the subject.\u00a0 I think we must not assume that our young people know what the Bible teaches on what it means to be a man and a woman.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Moms and dads, who are listening to this broadcast\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014<em>you<\/em> are the primary givers of the model of what God has in mind for being a man \/ being a woman under the authority of Jesus Christ in your children\u2019s lives.\u00a0 You can\u2019t take them to church and expect Sunday school to do.\u00a0 You can\u2019t take them to youth group\u2014you can\u2019t take them to a Christian school \/ a Christian college\u2014and hope they\u2019ll get it there. They must have it taught at home and have it modeled at home\u2014explain what it means to be a man in this culture \/ what it means to be a woman and feel comfortable in that gender identity.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay: \u201cDon\u2019t shy away from addressing this \/ we\u2019ve got to tackle this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs this something that can be a preferential issue?\u00a0 Can we just agree to disagree with our brothers and sisters in Christ on this one?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, we think that Scripture is, actually, quite clear. I think what we see is there is unnecessary confusion on this issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would urge people to search the Scriptures for themselves\u2014to read our book with the Scriptures in hand.\u00a0 We\u2019re basically just trying to be a witness to God\u2019s design.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I think the church is to be salt and light on what it means to be a man and a woman\u2014our sexual identity.\u00a0 You know, if we didn\u2019t realize that until recently, I think we should now, in light of recent developments in our culture.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 A lot of our listeners, Andreas, who are hearing us today, are saying: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 I\u2019m not teaching a class\u2014I\u2019m raising the next generation of boys and girls who are going to take our place.\u00a0 And some of the things our sons and daughters are running into at school, in the marketplace, on football teams and cheerleading practice, etc., are getting pretty bizarre.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou tell a story in your book about a little boy by the name of Alex. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want you to tell the story of what happened with him, but I think what\u2019s needed here is\u2014just coach parents on how they are going to handle a number of conflicting messages that are going to come at them and their children and how we are compassionate and gracious as we confront these distortions of what God created.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Actually, I got this from a <em>New York Times<\/em> editorial.\u00a0 So, this is a real true-life story.\u00a0 Little Alex identified as a girl and would wear dresses occasionally at home. The parents, for a while, just told him to keep those urges under control and that he was a boy. But at some point, they had kind of a change of heart\u2014they realized: \u201cAs parents, would our role not be to just discover who Alex really is in his heart of hearts?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they talked to the teacher; and they talked to some of the parents.\u00a0 Then, they allowed the boy, Alex, to wear a pink and purple dress to school one day.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe way the <em>New York Times<\/em> told that story was as a story of liberation\u2014that the parents were liberated to understand that it\u2019s okay.\u00a0 They don\u2019t always have to suppress those urges but to allow the child to express them freely and just to be sensitive to the other parents and children in the class.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, how are you equipping your children to handle these issues?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, I do have to say that we\u2019ve homeschooled our children for the most part.\u00a0 So, we are equipping our children in our own home every day. Not everybody home schools\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and they [her children] don\u2019t have to face the kind of conflicts \/ that Alex might be in the classroom with them.\u00a0 So, you could home school\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that would be one answer.\u00a0 But Andreas, you have some\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, there\u2019s a lot to be said for equipping our children\u2014thoroughly grounding them in Scripture\u2014for the time when they will be in high school \/ in college\u2014when they have to know who they are and just to embrace the fact that God created them a certain way\u2014as part of their faith commitment\u2014and to understand that the culture, that does not believe in God, simply\u2014within their own way of thinking\u2014has to attribute gender to within the humanistic framework.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I became a Christian when I was 23, at the end of college.\u00a0 So, I can still remember thinking as a non-Christian.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>So, it\u2019s not hard for me, personally, to put myself in the position of someone who doesn\u2019t believe in God and think, \u201cOkay; obviously, if I were them, I would think about gender probably similar to the way they do.\u201d\u00a0 Then, as a Christian, engage them\u2014helping them understand that ultimately this is a lordship issue \/ this is an authority issue, even for Christians.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve seen too many Christians\u2014who are following what Scripture teaches in most other areas of life\u2014but when it comes to this area, they go by their preferences.\u00a0 Some of the choices they make are lifestyle choices that are based on who has the higher paying job or other decisions like that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I would just add to what you shared there\u2014I think our kids need a biblical worldview \/ they need to think from the Scripture, not to the Scripture, and make sure that\u2019s dictating what they are thinking about other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs soon as you look at the Bible, you are going to learn we are all broken.\u00a0 I\u2019m broken \/ you\u2019re broken\u2014the kids you go to school with are broken.\u00a0 They are going to express that brokenness in various ways.\u00a0 Some, because of the culture we\u2019re in, are going to express it through sexual identity\u2014a crisis of sorts\u2014and maybe, do some strange things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat our children need to know how to do is\u2014is how to respond with compassion, with love, with grace\u2014which is how our Savior dealt with people who were broken \/ who were sinners.\u00a0 Then, share with them the real need of their soul, which is a relationship with Jesus Christ.\u00a0 He\u2019s the One who can heal. He\u2019s the One who can redeem, and give purpose, and help people find their true identity as God created it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I just say\u2014we\u2019ve had a lot of guests, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, over the years, Bob\u2014a lot of books we\u2019ve recommended.\u00a0 I do not remember a book that has been more thoroughly biblical than this book that Andreas and Marny have written. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s called <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>.\u00a0 If you are looking for a source book to know how to handle some of these tough issues, and to know where they are found in Scripture, and how to go about addressing them\u2014this book would be great for singles, marrieds, parents, grandparents alike.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ve got the book in our <em>FamilyLife<\/em> <em>Today<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 So, our listeners can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy of the book.\u00a0 Because it\u2019s a holiday, our phones are not being answered live today.\u00a0 So, that\u2019s probably the best way for you to get in touch with us\u2014is to go to FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You\u2019ll see information there about how you can order the book from us, online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014the title of the book: <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman: Equipping a New Generation to Live Out God\u2019s Design<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd as we wrap up our first program of 2016, we just want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who made a yearend contribution in support of the ministry.\u00a0 We still don\u2019t have the final word yet on the matching-gift challenge that was presented to us, but we\u2019ll let you know as soon as we can how we did in regard to that matching gift.\u00a0 But thank you for your support of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, here at the end of 2015, and throughout the year.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We are grateful for your partnership with us, and we want to make sure we continue to be good stewards of the money that you\u2019ve entrusted to us as we seek to wisely use it so that we can most effectively develop godly marriages and families\u2014the kind of marriages and families that really do change the world, one home at a time.\u00a0 We\u2019re very grateful for your support of the ministry, and we look forward to 2016 and a great year together with you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to begin a week-long conversation about how we live as followers of Christ in a culture that increasingly is moving away from Christian beliefs and Christian values. Larry Osborne is going to join us in the first half of the week \/ Russell Moore will be with us for the second half of the week.\u00a0 And we\u2019ll explore that subject.\u00a0 Hope you can be here all week long.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 Help for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303812","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303812"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303812"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303812"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303812"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303812"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303812"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303812"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}