{"id":303810,"date":"2015-12-31T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2015-12-31T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/trusting-the-lord-and-his-design\/"},"modified":"2015-12-31T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2015-12-31T17:00:00","slug":"trusting-the-lord-and-his-design","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/trusting-the-lord-and-his-design\/","title":{"rendered":"Trusting the Lord and His Design"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What is God&#8217;s design for man and woman? Andreas and Margaret Kostenberger share their story, and discuss God&#8217;s design for marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-12-31.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"26.65M","filesize_raw":"27941957","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2805],"tags":[4019,5932,5933,4819,5934],"podcast_series":[8119],"cwp_profile":[9416,9417],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303810","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-gods-plan-for-marriage","tag-biblical-marriage","tag-gods-plan","tag-male-and-female","tag-roles","tag-scholar","podcast_series-gods-design-for-man-and-woman","cwp_profile-andreas-kostenberger","cwp_profile-margaret-kostenberger","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303810\/trusting-the-lord-and-his-design","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303810\/trusting-the-lord-and-his-design","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"8GAMCdMGIe\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/trusting-the-lord-and-his-design\/\">Trusting the Lord and His Design<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/trusting-the-lord-and-his-design\/embed\/#?secret=8GAMCdMGIe\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Trusting the Lord and His Design&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"8GAMCdMGIe\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-12-31.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-12-31.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Margaret K\u00f6stenberger says ultimately deciding to embrace God\u2019s design for her, as a woman, comes down to trusting and obeying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think so much in terms: \u201cIs it fair?\u00a0 Is this unfair that I don\u2019t get a leadership role?\u201d or \u201c\u2026I don\u2019t have the authority in this particular relationship?\u201d\u00a0 Everybody has to be put under authority in different ways; but I think it comes down to trusting how God has designed us, as a couple\u2014as man and woman together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, December 31<sup>st<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Do you think there is any controversy around what we\u2019re talking about this week?\u00a0 Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob, when\u2019s the last time we had a resident of Vienna, Austria, on our broadcast?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>That would be\u2014that was <em>never<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve ever had anybody from Vienna. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, I don\u2019t think so; but we\u2019re having a guest today from there. Both he and his wife are from\u2014well, he\u2019s from Vienna \/ she\u2019s from Canada\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Correct. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014which doesn\u2019t sound nearly as exciting as Vienna, Austria. [Laughter] I\u2019m sorry\u2014nothing against Canada. I love Canada\u2014been there many times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have Andreas and Margaret K\u00f6stenberger joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Andreas is from Vienna. He has his PhD from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. You and Margaret have written a book called <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>. You both are professors at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina. You have four children who live with you, there in North Carolina, as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore we dive into what we want to talk about today, I just want to turn to our listening audience and say, \u201cIt is game time.\u201d\u00a0 <br><br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, this is the last day of the year; isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is. It\u2019s the last day of the year, and we still have some matching funds that have been set aside. Our ministry is really dependent upon finishing this last day extremely strong if we are going to continue to be on this station, moving forward into 2016 and beyond. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Some friends of the ministry came to us not long ago\u2014they said: \u201cWe heard you guys had a matching-gift fund. We\u2019d like to add to that fund;\u201d and they did. As a result, the donations that we\u2019re receiving, between now and midnight tonight, are going to be matched\u2014not just dollar for dollar\u2014they\u2019re going to be matched, two to one. So, when you make a donation of $50, we\u2019re able to take advantage of $100 from the matching- gift fund; and we wind up with $150 donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We\u2019re trying to take full advantage of this matching-gift opportunity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey capped the total at $5 million. That\u2019s why we\u2019re coming to you and asking if you would go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, or mail a donation to us\u2014just make sure it\u2019s postmarked with today\u2019s postmark. When you do that\u2014we\u2019ll be able to, not only receive your gift and say, \u201cThank you for your participation,\u201d\u2014but it will also free up funds from this matching-gift fund. We hope to take full advantage of it before the night is over. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I just want you to know, as a listener\u2014it is a privilege to serve you and your family, and equip you to do marriage and family and life according to the Scriptures, and also to raise your children to be image-bearers of Christ, moving forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd this subject today we\u2019re about to talk about\u2014the whole issue of roles in marriage \/ what it means to be a man and a woman in this culture\u2014you\u2019re not hearing a lot of clarity from the Bible today on this, but that\u2019s what you can count on from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want you to know these are not minor issues\u2014these are the bedrock of our nation. I just believe we must win the battle over the family today because it\u2019s a competing worldview. Are you going to build your family according to God\u2019s view of marriage and family or the world\u2019s view?\u00a0 If you believe we need to do it God\u2019s way, pick up a phone, or go online, or fill out an envelope with our address and give generously, here at yearend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, let\u2019s talk about <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>. That\u2019s the title of the book you wrote. In the book, you actually go back to a time when you\u2019d been traveling throughout Europe and you came back home. You were\u2014what?\u201417\/18 years old coming back home?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tell that story\u2014what happened when you arrived home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s quite common in Austria and in Europe to take Eurail pass\u2014at least, it was when I was that age\u2014and just travel Europe for a month or two, staying in some of those youth hostels. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a great way to see the continent of Europe. So, I came back from that trip\u2014it was kind of the end of summer. I opened the door. I saw that, in the hallway\u2014that a lot of drawers were pulled out and clothes were kind of hanging out. I was thinking, \u201cSomebody broke in!\u201d\u00a0 Then, at second thought, I realized my dad had moved out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you hadn\u2019t been robbed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You called your dad. What did he say?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. He said, \u201cAndreas, I don\u2019t live at home anymore.\u201d\u00a0 I was just shocked. I didn\u2019t see it coming, even though maybe I should have; but still, I\u2014I guess, sometimes, as a teenager, you\u2019re caught up in yourself and in your own world. So, it was very jarring to have him tell me that over the phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How did that impact you, as a young man?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, I tried to continue meeting with him as I went off to college. Usually, we\u2019d meet once a month at a restaurant. He would tell me about his new life with a new partner he\u2019d had and building a house with her. I always felt kind of cheated because\u2014you know, I was thinking: \u201cWell, what about us?\u201d\u00a0 My mother had been married to him for 25 years. So, it was very hard to respect him for the choices that he made. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>At this point in your life, there was no solid spiritual foundation for you; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>No. I was probably a fairly typical European university student. I was into existentialism. I thought that life really didn\u2019t have meaning. At the same time, I\u2019d occasionally wake up at night and just be terrified of what would happen to me when I died. So, it was a really difficult time in my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That ultimately kind of kick-started you on a spiritual journey, though\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014this situation at home. Share with our listeners how you came to come to have faith in Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>I met an American opera student on a train from Vienna to Venice. She shared a passage from Galatians 5 with me on the fruit of the Spirit\u2014and the love, and the joy, and the peace that God can give to people. That began about a six-month journey, where I read through the entire Bible twice\u2014just really out of incredible pent-up spiritual hunger because I\u2019d never read the Bible before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGradually, it dawned on me that it\u2019s not just everybody around me having problems; but that I was a sinner, needing a Savior. I desperately cried out to God for help and trusted Christ for my salvation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>At the same time, Margaret\u2014well, it wasn\u2019t quite the same time because you\u2019re a little younger than Andreas; but you were growing up in Canada near Toronto. You didn\u2019t grow up in a Christian home either. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>That\u2019s correct. I didn\u2019t have that opportunity to grow up in a Christian home\u2014no. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what kicked off your journey toward, ultimately, becoming a follower of Christ?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, I was invited to go on a retreat with a college group; and I was 17. They were a little older than me. I was just really amazed by the lives of the people that I met on that retreat. They actually guided me to a church, back in my hometown, which was three hours away from where we had been meeting. There was a great pastor there who led me in understanding the truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The two of you met when you were students together at seminary at Columbia International University and Seminary. Was the issue of marriage and gender, in particular\u2014from a theological standpoint\u2014was that something that was on your mind back then? Or has that blossomed out of your marriage and your family experience?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I would say\u2014Andreas, it was on your mind because you were asking <em>me<\/em> questions about those matters and what I thought about them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhy don\u2019t you go ahead?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Yes, I remember hearing about, I think, the founding of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood in the late-80s or so. Then, I remember it deeply resonated with me; but even before then, I was already interested in it, possibly, because I\u2019m a pretty deep thinker. The experience I\u2019d had with my parents\u2019 divorce kind of set me on a course to reflect on what it means to be a man and a woman. It\u2019s been on my mind ever since I can remember. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Marney, how about for you? Was\u2014I guess growing up in Canada, in a home that was not a Christian home, I\u2019m assuming that the cultural ideas about gender and about feminism were probably\u2014that was probably just the water you were drinking; wasn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Yes, I guess I didn\u2019t really realize what I was coming out of. In my home, I think my parents \/ my mother would have taught me to be anything I wanted to be\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014well, that\u2019s all good. I never had any instruction about God\u2019s design for me, as a woman. When I went to nursing school at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, there was a strong feminist presence in the teaching. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How much did you understand, biblically, of what God was calling you to do and be, as a wife, in this new relationship with Christ and in a Christian marriage?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I guess it was\u2014it was new to me. Andreas and I were discussing these questions about what the role of a man and a woman should be. So, it was\u2014we were exploring \/ it was new to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What about you, Andreas?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>I think we were especially making sure that each other were disciples of Christ. I remember going for long walks and just getting to know each other\u2014and also, just kind of gauging the depth of commitment. We were both at a school that was very serious about discipleship and about missions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI took a long-term view in terms of being married and being, really, on mission together for God and partnering together. Columbia was a great environment for that because, you know, a lot of people were there for the same reason. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>One of the points you make, repeatedly, in your book is that to be called the head of your home\u2014or the husband of your family and your wife\u2014is less about power and more about responsibility. Unpack that, if you would, please. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Absolutely. You know, the word, patriarchy, is often given a bad connotation in our culture today; but really, when you think about it, the patriarchs were providers of their families. They protected them\u2014often the extended household. They were basically the people through whom God\u2019s channel of blessing flowed to those around them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, people would have looked at the role of a patriarch\u2014not so much as one who wielded authority or power over them\u2014but ones who were a source of great blessing for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and goodness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>\u2014and goodness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. I think some men view the authority that\u2019s given to them through a wrong lens and can become dominant and abusive. Speak to that just real briefly, if you would. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Yes\u2014for them to be Christ-like, and to be servants of their wives \/ to care for them spiritually, and physically, and emotionally\u2014and the same with their family\/their children. I think the idea that\u2014you know, you hear, sometimes, about servant-leadership. I don\u2019t like the term very much because, sometimes, people use it as if it were drained of all authority. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI rather think that husbands ought to be servant-leaders, but not in the sense that they completely shirk their responsibility and their authority; but they use their God-given authority in their role to serve out of a position of strength and character. <br><br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m glad you bring that up because I think, early in my marriage\u2014I\u2019d heard about servant-leadership\u2014I wanted to be that kind of a husband. I think what I fell into was the idea that, \u201cAs long as I am serving my wife \/ pleasing her, then, I\u2019m doing what God requires of me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was a number of years in\u2014that I thought: \u201cI\u2019m not really leading. I\u2019m really just looking around and saying: \u2018How can I help?\u2019\u00a0 Then, I\u2019m trying to help.\u201d\u00a0 But I wasn\u2019t really taking on the responsibility that comes with saying, \u201cI need to be providing leadership here.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s so true. I think\u2014in our study of Scripture, we see this strong pattern of male leadership, all the way from Adam to the Book of Revelation, where you have the 24 elders\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014your 12 tribes of Israel \/ the 12 apostles. So, there\u2019s no denying that God\u2019s plan, before the fall and after the fall, is one of strong male leaders. And of course, in Christ, we see a perfect example of how\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>\u2014that leadership is to be carried out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Marney, isn\u2019t there anything inside of you\u2014hearing us talk about strong male leadership and men doing this\u2014that causes you to go: \u201cHang on!\u00a0 Wait!\u00a0 I\u2019ve got something to say about this too. I think I should be an equal partner in this,\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, I think I\u2019ve come to trust the Lord and His design for men and women where we are of equal worth but distinct in roles\u2014that we\u2019re complementary\u2014I can accept that. I know, maybe, at some point, it might have been harder for me; but just moving on in life and trusting the Lord in this way was a gradual thing for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I will hear people, today, say, \u201cI know you affirm equal worth \/ equal value of men and women,\u201d; but they\u2019ll just say, \u2018Honestly, if the man\u2019s got the authority, it\u2019s kind of\u2014you\u2019re just playing semantic games to say equal value and equal worth because, if he\u2019s got the authority, he\u2019s got to have a little more value than the people who don\u2019t have the authority.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right; I know that\u2019s a logical way of thinking. Maybe, people struggle with that in terms of understanding whether they really are equal. I think it comes down to trusting how God has designed us, as a couple \/ as man and woman together. Also, it\u2019s a matter of just obedience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when you hear the phrase, \u201cYou are under your husband\u2019s authority,\u201d isn\u2019t there something that causes you to flinch at that idea?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Maybe, it does in my sinful nature\u2014yes, it probably does. And as I was starting to say before, we don\u2019t live out our lives perfectly, even now, because I\u2019m <em>still<\/em> a sinner\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>\u2014the same sinner I was when we first got married\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014hopefully, more mature\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>\u2014hopefully more understanding of my husband and who he is \/ his strengths and weaknesses as\u2014you know, just\u2014we\u2019re gradually becoming more and more like Christ and living out the design, hopefully, more perfectly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your husband is nodding his head right now. [Laughter]\u00a0 He\u2019s agreeing with what you are saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, I\u2019m catching the fact you\u2019ve grown a good bit in your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Andreas, I\u2019m wondering, from you: \u201cWhat is the wrong way to think about a husband having authority over his wife?\u201d and \u201cWhat\u2019s the right way to think about that?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, I think sometimes\u2014when people stereotype authority as this kind of self-seeking and using it for your own purposes\u2014they may not adequately realize that there is, sometimes, a burden that comes with being responsible and being a leader. I think, if a man seeks to follow Christ and provide for his wife and his family, it\u2019s a serious responsibility; and you need God\u2019s help \/ you need His strength. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m often exhausted and drained, just from making sure that everybody\u2019s needs in my family are met. Certainly, right now, we have four children. One is just out of college, one in college, one about to go into college, and then, a middle-schooler. You know, they are growing; and their needs are growing as well. So, as a dad \/ as a husband, you feel like\u2014it\u2019s a fulltime job\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>It\u2019s a huge responsibility,\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>\u2014to care for everyone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>\u2014and I\u2019m aware of that too. I\u2019m aware of that. I <em>enjoy<\/em> when he takes leadership and assumes authority in a godly, loving way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Abusive husbands ignore the needs of their wife. They are not really listening and valuing their wife\u2019s opinion\u2014what her perspective is \/ what her needs are in the situation. That\u2019s what I heard you just saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Yes, we do everything together. I\u2014Marney has a real gift of wisdom, and I know that. If I don\u2019t listen to her, I\u2019ll regret it later. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe make our decisions together, but the truth is that there are occasions when I feel strongly led by the Lord to move a certain direction. After we discuss different pros and cons, I tell Marney that \u201cI really think we should do this.\u201d\u00a0 At that moment, she defers to me. I think that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about\u2014that ultimately, God has assigned that leadership role to the man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Marney, do you remember a recent \u201cdiscussion\u201d where, maybe, you both didn\u2019t have the same opinion; but ultimately, Andreas had to decide, and you went with him?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>You know, I can think of one. Okay\u2014and this is related to media and the children\u2019s use of media. Andreas made the decision when the boys were going to be allowed to get emails\u2014I mean, email accounts\u2014at least, David \/ Timothy doesn\u2019t yet\u2014he is 13 \/ he doesn\u2019t have an email account yet\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but to get involved in different \/ the many different aspects of social media. I am more conservative. I wanted to wait until the longest time. Andreas just felt: \u201cThis is the time. He needs to get it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, why did you decide to go ahead and press forward?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, I think, sometimes, for parents\u2014I\u2019ve seen that\u2014when I grew up, as a young man\u2014it\u2019s time to let go and to allow our children to even fail if that\u2019s what it takes to learn some lessons. Better for that to happen at a time when we are still there to guide them and to give them feedback. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s hard for a mother to hear; isn\u2019t it, Marney?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Yes; yes. I just have to trust Andreas\u2019s\u2014I don\u2019t know if instinct is the right word\u2014but the timing was right for him to guide his son in that area of life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mean, it\u2019s your little boy, for goodness sakes!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I wanted to just keep him in a little protective shell\u2014and that nobody hurt him, or guide him, or mislead him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you <em>knew<\/em>, before any decision was made, that your husband had heard you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that he\u2019d prayed\u2014that he was seeking to follow the Lord in all of this. That makes it easier for you, even in the hard decision, to go, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to trust you here.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s true\u2014it does make it easier \/ doesn\u2019t make it easy\u2014but yet, that was something. I think it is easier, over time, the more you do that because you just surrender to God\u2019s leadership in your life through your husband\u2019s leadership. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>You realize: \u201cThis is God\u2019s work. It\u2019s not <em>my<\/em> work\u2014protecting my son from something,\u201d\u2014just leaving it to Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>It\u2019s a learning experience. We\u2019ve been married for over 25 years. We look back\u2014I think the first 7\/10 years were just\u2014we were still trying to figure things out. I\u2019m very slow. Even as a husband\/as a father, it\u2019s taken me a long, long time to not even get all that far. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, the hard thing or, at least, it has been for me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you make some of these decisions, as a man, and then, you look back and you go: \u201cMy wife was right. [Laughter] I should have listened to her.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>True. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re not going to bat a thousand, as a husband. Even though you have a responsibility for leadership, you\u2019re going to make some wrong decisions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It may not always be easy. I was just thinking of your list you went through\u2014you said: \u201cFirst of all, I was single \/ came to faith in Christ\u2014learned about self-denial. Then, I got married, and\u2014Wow!\u2014there was a whole new level of self-denial.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Then, came a child, then, two, three, four\u2014and then, came teenagers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Every step of the way, it demands self-denial. I\u2019ve got another one for you\u2014another stage\u2014is when the nest is empty and your kids have made enough money that they can give you dancing lessons, as a couple, because that will move you to a whole new level. I speak from experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right; okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Barbara and I thought we had this dance called marriage all figured out until we got the dancing lessons. Then, we found out: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 There\u2019s a whole new level of learning to trust,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because the man is supposed to form this cradle, where a woman can follow\u2014okay?\u2014as he leads. I just want you to know\u2014and if any of their kids are listening right now, make sure you give them dancing lessons when the nest is empty. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is a good book to read before you go take dance lessons; wouldn\u2019t you think?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think it is too!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>The book is <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>. It really does lay out the beauty \/ the glory of God\u2019s great design in making us male and female. We\u2019ve got copies of the book, <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife<\/em> <em>Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order your copy from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and request the book over the phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the toll-free number to call is 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 Or go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and order the book from us, online. Again, the title is <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em> by Andreas and Margaret K\u00f6stenberger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd just before we wrap up, a reminder of what Dennis shared earlier here\u2014we just have hours to go before the end of 2015. If you\u2019d like to make a yearend contribution to FamilyLife and help ensure that we are able to take full advantage of the matching-gift opportunity that has been presented to us, we need to hear from you today. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to make a yearend contribution; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and make your donation over the phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs long as we hear from you before midnight, your donation will qualify for the matching-gift funds. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ll be able to take advantage of the yearend tax deduction as well. So, again, we hope to hear from you, and hope you are able to help with a yearend gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow when we\u2019ll continue our conversation with Andreas and Margaret K\u00f6stenberger about God\u2019s <em>glorious<\/em> design for us, as men and women. Hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.65M"],"filesize_raw":["27941957"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303810.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303810.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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is God's design for man and woman? Andreas and Margaret Kostenberger share their story, and discuss God's design for marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-12-31.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Margaret K\u00f6stenberger says ultimately deciding to embrace God\u2019s design for her, as a woman, comes down to trusting and obeying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think so much in terms: \u201cIs it fair?\u00a0 Is this unfair that I don\u2019t get a leadership role?\u201d or \u201c\u2026I don\u2019t have the authority in this particular relationship?\u201d\u00a0 Everybody has to be put under authority in different ways; but I think it comes down to trusting how God has designed us, as a couple\u2014as man and woman together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, December 31<sup>st<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Do you think there is any controversy around what we\u2019re talking about this week?\u00a0 Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob, when\u2019s the last time we had a resident of Vienna, Austria, on our broadcast?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>That would be\u2014that was <em>never<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve ever had anybody from Vienna. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, I don\u2019t think so; but we\u2019re having a guest today from there. Both he and his wife are from\u2014well, he\u2019s from Vienna \/ she\u2019s from Canada\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Correct. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014which doesn\u2019t sound nearly as exciting as Vienna, Austria. [Laughter] I\u2019m sorry\u2014nothing against Canada. I love Canada\u2014been there many times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have Andreas and Margaret K\u00f6stenberger joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Andreas is from Vienna. He has his PhD from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. You and Margaret have written a book called <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>. You both are professors at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina. You have four children who live with you, there in North Carolina, as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore we dive into what we want to talk about today, I just want to turn to our listening audience and say, \u201cIt is game time.\u201d\u00a0 <br><br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, this is the last day of the year; isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is. It\u2019s the last day of the year, and we still have some matching funds that have been set aside. Our ministry is really dependent upon finishing this last day extremely strong if we are going to continue to be on this station, moving forward into 2016 and beyond. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Some friends of the ministry came to us not long ago\u2014they said: \u201cWe heard you guys had a matching-gift fund. We\u2019d like to add to that fund;\u201d and they did. As a result, the donations that we\u2019re receiving, between now and midnight tonight, are going to be matched\u2014not just dollar for dollar\u2014they\u2019re going to be matched, two to one. So, when you make a donation of $50, we\u2019re able to take advantage of $100 from the matching- gift fund; and we wind up with $150 donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We\u2019re trying to take full advantage of this matching-gift opportunity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey capped the total at $5 million. That\u2019s why we\u2019re coming to you and asking if you would go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, or mail a donation to us\u2014just make sure it\u2019s postmarked with today\u2019s postmark. When you do that\u2014we\u2019ll be able to, not only receive your gift and say, \u201cThank you for your participation,\u201d\u2014but it will also free up funds from this matching-gift fund. We hope to take full advantage of it before the night is over. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I just want you to know, as a listener\u2014it is a privilege to serve you and your family, and equip you to do marriage and family and life according to the Scriptures, and also to raise your children to be image-bearers of Christ, moving forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd this subject today we\u2019re about to talk about\u2014the whole issue of roles in marriage \/ what it means to be a man and a woman in this culture\u2014you\u2019re not hearing a lot of clarity from the Bible today on this, but that\u2019s what you can count on from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want you to know these are not minor issues\u2014these are the bedrock of our nation. I just believe we must win the battle over the family today because it\u2019s a competing worldview. Are you going to build your family according to God\u2019s view of marriage and family or the world\u2019s view?\u00a0 If you believe we need to do it God\u2019s way, pick up a phone, or go online, or fill out an envelope with our address and give generously, here at yearend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, let\u2019s talk about <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>. That\u2019s the title of the book you wrote. In the book, you actually go back to a time when you\u2019d been traveling throughout Europe and you came back home. You were\u2014what?\u201417\/18 years old coming back home?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tell that story\u2014what happened when you arrived home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s quite common in Austria and in Europe to take Eurail pass\u2014at least, it was when I was that age\u2014and just travel Europe for a month or two, staying in some of those youth hostels. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a great way to see the continent of Europe. So, I came back from that trip\u2014it was kind of the end of summer. I opened the door. I saw that, in the hallway\u2014that a lot of drawers were pulled out and clothes were kind of hanging out. I was thinking, \u201cSomebody broke in!\u201d\u00a0 Then, at second thought, I realized my dad had moved out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you hadn\u2019t been robbed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You called your dad. What did he say?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. He said, \u201cAndreas, I don\u2019t live at home anymore.\u201d\u00a0 I was just shocked. I didn\u2019t see it coming, even though maybe I should have; but still, I\u2014I guess, sometimes, as a teenager, you\u2019re caught up in yourself and in your own world. So, it was very jarring to have him tell me that over the phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How did that impact you, as a young man?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, I tried to continue meeting with him as I went off to college. Usually, we\u2019d meet once a month at a restaurant. He would tell me about his new life with a new partner he\u2019d had and building a house with her. I always felt kind of cheated because\u2014you know, I was thinking: \u201cWell, what about us?\u201d\u00a0 My mother had been married to him for 25 years. So, it was very hard to respect him for the choices that he made. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>At this point in your life, there was no solid spiritual foundation for you; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>No. I was probably a fairly typical European university student. I was into existentialism. I thought that life really didn\u2019t have meaning. At the same time, I\u2019d occasionally wake up at night and just be terrified of what would happen to me when I died. So, it was a really difficult time in my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That ultimately kind of kick-started you on a spiritual journey, though\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014this situation at home. Share with our listeners how you came to come to have faith in Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>I met an American opera student on a train from Vienna to Venice. She shared a passage from Galatians 5 with me on the fruit of the Spirit\u2014and the love, and the joy, and the peace that God can give to people. That began about a six-month journey, where I read through the entire Bible twice\u2014just really out of incredible pent-up spiritual hunger because I\u2019d never read the Bible before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGradually, it dawned on me that it\u2019s not just everybody around me having problems; but that I was a sinner, needing a Savior. I desperately cried out to God for help and trusted Christ for my salvation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>At the same time, Margaret\u2014well, it wasn\u2019t quite the same time because you\u2019re a little younger than Andreas; but you were growing up in Canada near Toronto. You didn\u2019t grow up in a Christian home either. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>That\u2019s correct. I didn\u2019t have that opportunity to grow up in a Christian home\u2014no. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what kicked off your journey toward, ultimately, becoming a follower of Christ?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, I was invited to go on a retreat with a college group; and I was 17. They were a little older than me. I was just really amazed by the lives of the people that I met on that retreat. They actually guided me to a church, back in my hometown, which was three hours away from where we had been meeting. There was a great pastor there who led me in understanding the truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The two of you met when you were students together at seminary at Columbia International University and Seminary. Was the issue of marriage and gender, in particular\u2014from a theological standpoint\u2014was that something that was on your mind back then? Or has that blossomed out of your marriage and your family experience?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I would say\u2014Andreas, it was on your mind because you were asking <em>me<\/em> questions about those matters and what I thought about them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhy don\u2019t you go ahead?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Yes, I remember hearing about, I think, the founding of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood in the late-80s or so. Then, I remember it deeply resonated with me; but even before then, I was already interested in it, possibly, because I\u2019m a pretty deep thinker. The experience I\u2019d had with my parents\u2019 divorce kind of set me on a course to reflect on what it means to be a man and a woman. It\u2019s been on my mind ever since I can remember. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Marney, how about for you? Was\u2014I guess growing up in Canada, in a home that was not a Christian home, I\u2019m assuming that the cultural ideas about gender and about feminism were probably\u2014that was probably just the water you were drinking; wasn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Yes, I guess I didn\u2019t really realize what I was coming out of. In my home, I think my parents \/ my mother would have taught me to be anything I wanted to be\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014well, that\u2019s all good. I never had any instruction about God\u2019s design for me, as a woman. When I went to nursing school at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, there was a strong feminist presence in the teaching. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How much did you understand, biblically, of what God was calling you to do and be, as a wife, in this new relationship with Christ and in a Christian marriage?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I guess it was\u2014it was new to me. Andreas and I were discussing these questions about what the role of a man and a woman should be. So, it was\u2014we were exploring \/ it was new to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What about you, Andreas?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>I think we were especially making sure that each other were disciples of Christ. I remember going for long walks and just getting to know each other\u2014and also, just kind of gauging the depth of commitment. We were both at a school that was very serious about discipleship and about missions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI took a long-term view in terms of being married and being, really, on mission together for God and partnering together. Columbia was a great environment for that because, you know, a lot of people were there for the same reason. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>One of the points you make, repeatedly, in your book is that to be called the head of your home\u2014or the husband of your family and your wife\u2014is less about power and more about responsibility. Unpack that, if you would, please. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Absolutely. You know, the word, patriarchy, is often given a bad connotation in our culture today; but really, when you think about it, the patriarchs were providers of their families. They protected them\u2014often the extended household. They were basically the people through whom God\u2019s channel of blessing flowed to those around them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, people would have looked at the role of a patriarch\u2014not so much as one who wielded authority or power over them\u2014but ones who were a source of great blessing for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and goodness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>\u2014and goodness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. I think some men view the authority that\u2019s given to them through a wrong lens and can become dominant and abusive. Speak to that just real briefly, if you would. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Yes\u2014for them to be Christ-like, and to be servants of their wives \/ to care for them spiritually, and physically, and emotionally\u2014and the same with their family\/their children. I think the idea that\u2014you know, you hear, sometimes, about servant-leadership. I don\u2019t like the term very much because, sometimes, people use it as if it were drained of all authority. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI rather think that husbands ought to be servant-leaders, but not in the sense that they completely shirk their responsibility and their authority; but they use their God-given authority in their role to serve out of a position of strength and character. <br><br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m glad you bring that up because I think, early in my marriage\u2014I\u2019d heard about servant-leadership\u2014I wanted to be that kind of a husband. I think what I fell into was the idea that, \u201cAs long as I am serving my wife \/ pleasing her, then, I\u2019m doing what God requires of me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was a number of years in\u2014that I thought: \u201cI\u2019m not really leading. I\u2019m really just looking around and saying: \u2018How can I help?\u2019\u00a0 Then, I\u2019m trying to help.\u201d\u00a0 But I wasn\u2019t really taking on the responsibility that comes with saying, \u201cI need to be providing leadership here.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s so true. I think\u2014in our study of Scripture, we see this strong pattern of male leadership, all the way from Adam to the Book of Revelation, where you have the 24 elders\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014your 12 tribes of Israel \/ the 12 apostles. So, there\u2019s no denying that God\u2019s plan, before the fall and after the fall, is one of strong male leaders. And of course, in Christ, we see a perfect example of how\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>\u2014that leadership is to be carried out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Marney, isn\u2019t there anything inside of you\u2014hearing us talk about strong male leadership and men doing this\u2014that causes you to go: \u201cHang on!\u00a0 Wait!\u00a0 I\u2019ve got something to say about this too. I think I should be an equal partner in this,\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Well, I think I\u2019ve come to trust the Lord and His design for men and women where we are of equal worth but distinct in roles\u2014that we\u2019re complementary\u2014I can accept that. I know, maybe, at some point, it might have been harder for me; but just moving on in life and trusting the Lord in this way was a gradual thing for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I will hear people, today, say, \u201cI know you affirm equal worth \/ equal value of men and women,\u201d; but they\u2019ll just say, \u2018Honestly, if the man\u2019s got the authority, it\u2019s kind of\u2014you\u2019re just playing semantic games to say equal value and equal worth because, if he\u2019s got the authority, he\u2019s got to have a little more value than the people who don\u2019t have the authority.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right; I know that\u2019s a logical way of thinking. Maybe, people struggle with that in terms of understanding whether they really are equal. I think it comes down to trusting how God has designed us, as a couple \/ as man and woman together. Also, it\u2019s a matter of just obedience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when you hear the phrase, \u201cYou are under your husband\u2019s authority,\u201d isn\u2019t there something that causes you to flinch at that idea?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Maybe, it does in my sinful nature\u2014yes, it probably does. And as I was starting to say before, we don\u2019t live out our lives perfectly, even now, because I\u2019m <em>still<\/em> a sinner\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>\u2014the same sinner I was when we first got married\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014hopefully, more mature\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>\u2014hopefully more understanding of my husband and who he is \/ his strengths and weaknesses as\u2014you know, just\u2014we\u2019re gradually becoming more and more like Christ and living out the design, hopefully, more perfectly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your husband is nodding his head right now. [Laughter]\u00a0 He\u2019s agreeing with what you are saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, I\u2019m catching the fact you\u2019ve grown a good bit in your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Andreas, I\u2019m wondering, from you: \u201cWhat is the wrong way to think about a husband having authority over his wife?\u201d and \u201cWhat\u2019s the right way to think about that?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, I think sometimes\u2014when people stereotype authority as this kind of self-seeking and using it for your own purposes\u2014they may not adequately realize that there is, sometimes, a burden that comes with being responsible and being a leader. I think, if a man seeks to follow Christ and provide for his wife and his family, it\u2019s a serious responsibility; and you need God\u2019s help \/ you need His strength. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m often exhausted and drained, just from making sure that everybody\u2019s needs in my family are met. Certainly, right now, we have four children. One is just out of college, one in college, one about to go into college, and then, a middle-schooler. You know, they are growing; and their needs are growing as well. So, as a dad \/ as a husband, you feel like\u2014it\u2019s a fulltime job\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>It\u2019s a huge responsibility,\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>\u2014to care for everyone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>\u2014and I\u2019m aware of that too. I\u2019m aware of that. I <em>enjoy<\/em> when he takes leadership and assumes authority in a godly, loving way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Abusive husbands ignore the needs of their wife. They are not really listening and valuing their wife\u2019s opinion\u2014what her perspective is \/ what her needs are in the situation. That\u2019s what I heard you just saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Yes, we do everything together. I\u2014Marney has a real gift of wisdom, and I know that. If I don\u2019t listen to her, I\u2019ll regret it later. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe make our decisions together, but the truth is that there are occasions when I feel strongly led by the Lord to move a certain direction. After we discuss different pros and cons, I tell Marney that \u201cI really think we should do this.\u201d\u00a0 At that moment, she defers to me. I think that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about\u2014that ultimately, God has assigned that leadership role to the man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Marney, do you remember a recent \u201cdiscussion\u201d where, maybe, you both didn\u2019t have the same opinion; but ultimately, Andreas had to decide, and you went with him?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>You know, I can think of one. Okay\u2014and this is related to media and the children\u2019s use of media. Andreas made the decision when the boys were going to be allowed to get emails\u2014I mean, email accounts\u2014at least, David \/ Timothy doesn\u2019t yet\u2014he is 13 \/ he doesn\u2019t have an email account yet\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but to get involved in different \/ the many different aspects of social media. I am more conservative. I wanted to wait until the longest time. Andreas just felt: \u201cThis is the time. He needs to get it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, why did you decide to go ahead and press forward?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>Well, I think, sometimes, for parents\u2014I\u2019ve seen that\u2014when I grew up, as a young man\u2014it\u2019s time to let go and to allow our children to even fail if that\u2019s what it takes to learn some lessons. Better for that to happen at a time when we are still there to guide them and to give them feedback. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s hard for a mother to hear; isn\u2019t it, Marney?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Yes; yes. I just have to trust Andreas\u2019s\u2014I don\u2019t know if instinct is the right word\u2014but the timing was right for him to guide his son in that area of life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mean, it\u2019s your little boy, for goodness sakes!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>I wanted to just keep him in a little protective shell\u2014and that nobody hurt him, or guide him, or mislead him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you <em>knew<\/em>, before any decision was made, that your husband had heard you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that he\u2019d prayed\u2014that he was seeking to follow the Lord in all of this. That makes it easier for you, even in the hard decision, to go, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to trust you here.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s true\u2014it does make it easier \/ doesn\u2019t make it easy\u2014but yet, that was something. I think it is easier, over time, the more you do that because you just surrender to God\u2019s leadership in your life through your husband\u2019s leadership. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>You realize: \u201cThis is God\u2019s work. It\u2019s not <em>my<\/em> work\u2014protecting my son from something,\u201d\u2014just leaving it to Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>It\u2019s a learning experience. We\u2019ve been married for over 25 years. We look back\u2014I think the first 7\/10 years were just\u2014we were still trying to figure things out. I\u2019m very slow. Even as a husband\/as a father, it\u2019s taken me a long, long time to not even get all that far. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, the hard thing or, at least, it has been for me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you make some of these decisions, as a man, and then, you look back and you go: \u201cMy wife was right. [Laughter] I should have listened to her.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>True. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re not going to bat a thousand, as a husband. Even though you have a responsibility for leadership, you\u2019re going to make some wrong decisions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It may not always be easy. I was just thinking of your list you went through\u2014you said: \u201cFirst of all, I was single \/ came to faith in Christ\u2014learned about self-denial. Then, I got married, and\u2014Wow!\u2014there was a whole new level of self-denial.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Then, came a child, then, two, three, four\u2014and then, came teenagers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andreas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Every step of the way, it demands self-denial. I\u2019ve got another one for you\u2014another stage\u2014is when the nest is empty and your kids have made enough money that they can give you dancing lessons, as a couple, because that will move you to a whole new level. I speak from experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right; okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Barbara and I thought we had this dance called marriage all figured out until we got the dancing lessons. Then, we found out: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 There\u2019s a whole new level of learning to trust,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Margaret: <\/strong>Right; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because the man is supposed to form this cradle, where a woman can follow\u2014okay?\u2014as he leads. I just want you to know\u2014and if any of their kids are listening right now, make sure you give them dancing lessons when the nest is empty. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is a good book to read before you go take dance lessons; wouldn\u2019t you think?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think it is too!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>The book is <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>. It really does lay out the beauty \/ the glory of God\u2019s great design in making us male and female. We\u2019ve got copies of the book, <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife<\/em> <em>Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order your copy from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and request the book over the phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the toll-free number to call is 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 Or go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and order the book from us, online. Again, the title is <em>God\u2019s Design for Man and Woman<\/em> by Andreas and Margaret K\u00f6stenberger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd just before we wrap up, a reminder of what Dennis shared earlier here\u2014we just have hours to go before the end of 2015. If you\u2019d like to make a yearend contribution to FamilyLife and help ensure that we are able to take full advantage of the matching-gift opportunity that has been presented to us, we need to hear from you today. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to make a yearend contribution; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and make your donation over the phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs long as we hear from you before midnight, your donation will qualify for the matching-gift funds. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ll be able to take advantage of the yearend tax deduction as well. So, again, we hope to hear from you, and hope you are able to help with a yearend gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow when we\u2019ll continue our conversation with Andreas and Margaret K\u00f6stenberger about God\u2019s <em>glorious<\/em> design for us, as men and women. Hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. 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