{"id":303672,"date":"2015-09-23T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2015-09-23T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/prepare-to-be-safe\/"},"modified":"2015-09-23T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2015-09-23T15:00:00","slug":"prepare-to-be-safe","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/prepare-to-be-safe\/","title":{"rendered":"Prepare to Be Safe"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>If your marriage is abusive, what should you do? Author and pastor Justin Holcomb gives some steps to take to devise your own safety plan.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-09-23.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"27.09M","filesize_raw":"28404959","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2860,2873],"tags":[2949,4393],"podcast_series":[7215],"cwp_profile":[8833],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303672","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-abuse","tag-domestic-abuse","podcast_series-is-it-my-fault","cwp_profile-justin-holcomb","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303672\/prepare-to-be-safe","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303672\/prepare-to-be-safe","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"PLX9SxE63v\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/prepare-to-be-safe\/\">Prepare to Be Safe<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/prepare-to-be-safe\/embed\/#?secret=PLX9SxE63v\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Prepare to Be Safe&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"PLX9SxE63v\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-09-23.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-09-23.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Does abuse in a marriage relationship provide a husband or a wife with biblical grounds for a divorce? That is the elephant in the room that we\u2019re going to talk about today with author, Justin Holcomb.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> The first thing I want to say is that I\u2019m thankful we\u2019re talking about the elephant because too many women, when they\u2019ve talked to their pastor\u2014the first thing that they have heard is, \u201cWell, you know, God hates divorce,\u201d\u2014the very first\u2014not, \u201cI\u2019m sorry,\u201d or \u201cI believe you\u201d; but \u201cGod hates divorce.\u201d What they do is\u2014they\u2019re shutting them down. I\u2019m thinking: \u201cShe\u2019s not coming to ask for divorce. She\u2019s asking her pastor to shepherd her soul.\u201d Yes the Bible does say God hates divorce. You know what else He hates?\u2014abuse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>for Wednesday, September 23<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. So how do we honor our marriage covenant if we find ourselves in an abusive marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr are we off the hook, at that point? We\u2019ll explore that today. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. We are talking this week about the issue of domestic abuse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore we dive into that though, this is Day 23 of our 30-Day Oneness Prayer Challenge that we\u2019ve had going on during the month of September, encouraging husbands and wives to be praying together in marriage. Today\u2019s prayer topic is the importance of local church involvement. Today, we\u2019re encouraging husbands to pray that God would show you where and how you can be involved, as a couple, in a local church home. We\u2019re encouraging wives to pray for God to provide agreement in your marriage as to where and how you ought to worship together in a local church setting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe know, for some couples, they are just not on the same page in this area. We think it\u2019s important for you to be worshipping together, regularly, with a larger community of faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of our screen that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d and look for the Oneness Prayer Challenge logo. When you click on that, you can sign up to receive a prayer prompt each day. Even though we are near the end of September, you can go ahead and dive in, and start praying together, and then just continue into October. We\u2019ll continue to send you prayer prompts in the month to come. Again, sign up now\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d and take the 30-Day Oneness Prayer Challenge, as a couple. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we are talking this week about the issue of domestic abuse and domestic violence. I just feel like we\u2019ve got to get right to the elephant in the room that we\u2019ve not talked about yet this week\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and that is: \u201cDoes the Bible allow for divorce when you\u2019re in an abusive marriage?\u201d Folks who listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> know that we believe in the permanence of marriage and the marriage covenant\u2014that you need to take the \u201cD\u201d word off the table. So, if you\u2019re in an abusive marriage, is divorce acceptable? That\u2019s the elephant in the room.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know what? Let\u2019s deal with that\u2014but let\u2019s take a second, before we do get to that\u2014can we do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Alright. I want to introduce Justin Holcomb. He\u2019s written a book called <em>Is It My Fault?<\/em> And it\u2019s subtitled <em>Hope and Healing for Those Suffering from Domestic Violence<\/em>. Justin, as I welcome you back, what I want our listeners to know is\u2014Justin wrote this book with his wife. Both of them have really unique backgrounds in this area\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014Justin more in the biblical realm, and also as a pastor, and his wife from a counseling and therapy background. I want to take a step back and just ask you to describe: \u201cWhat does a victim of abuse feel? What are they absorbing, not only from a physical pain standpoint, but what\u2019s taking place in their lives?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> What they\u2019re feeling is <em>fear<\/em>\u2014fear of what kind of abuse and pain they\u2019re going to experience again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShame\u2014shame because, for many\u2014who are religious, especially\u2014they are failures at marriage \/ they must have done something. The Bible talks a lot about marriage, and wives, and how they relate\u2014and here they are. It\u2019s so celebrated in many churches\u2014and here they are\u2014the very thing that\u2019s celebrated is falling apart, and they can\u2019t hold it together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGuilt because they are assuming that it is their fault. A woman, who\u2019s getting abused, is thinking: \u201cWas it my abortion?\u201d \u201cWas it because we had sex before we got married?\u201d \u201cWhat is God punishing me for?\u201d\u2014some kind of divine karma type of thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnger because they\u2019re being trapped. They are worried about: \u201cDo I sit here and suffer this abuse? If I leave, where would I go? Who\u2019s going to believe me? And how do I take care of myself and the kids?\u201d There\u2019s anger at being sinned against and hurt like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn addition to fear, shame, guilt, and anger\u2014feeling like they\u2019re going crazy because they are thinking: \u201cWait a second, this is so confusing. He can say the most evil and humiliating things that cut to the heart and then another hour later he can tell me: \u2018I\u2019m so sorry. I love you so much.\u2019\u201d That is so disorienting\u2014to thinking: \u201cWell, maybe I do something that makes him angry because he\u2019s so nice out there at work, at church, with our friends; and then we get home. Maybe he\u2019s right\u2014maybe I set him off.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that\u2019s exactly it\u2014she begins to question reality\u2014maybe she has \/ maybe she\u2019s the one that\u2019s messed up and doesn\u2019t know how to interpret reality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I read a report, years ago, from the Nashville Police Department, where they talked about what they called the \u201cOh Baby Syndrome.\u201d They said\u2014 with domestic violence\u2014here\u2019s a common pattern: The abuser, after he has abused his wife, will come back\u2014in an hour, later that day, the next day, whenever it is\u2014but he will come back and it\u2019s: \u201cOh Baby, I\u2019m so sorry. Oh Baby I don\u2019t know what happened to me. Oh\u2014I don\u2019t want\u2014I\u2019m going to start going to church with you. I\u2019m going to play more with the kids. I\u2019m going to be a better man. I just need\u2026\u201d and he\u2019s weeping. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s this appearance of this guy, genuinely being broken, over what took place the hour before or the day before. The wife, so much wants to believe that this is real this time, that she says, \u201cOf course, come back in.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> She wants \/ she\u2019s hoping\u2014she chose this man, and she loves this man. This is the person that she decided to commit to and covenant with\u2014that she actually loves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She\u2019ll say to her friends: \u201cHe\u2019s a good man. You don\u2019t know him. He\u2019s a good man.\u201d And she\u2019ll start to describe the virtues of this individual. Why is she doing that? Why is she not saying, \u201cI need help\u2014this guy is attacking me\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Abuse \/ sustained abuse re-wires the synapses and how you actually understand reality. What happens is\u2014she actually does start believing while she\u2019s saying it: \u201cI guess he is the good guy, and he has these moments where he\u2019s not that bad.\u201d Then she starts downplaying and minimizing. She sees the good side because she starts giving voice to the things that he says to her. She starts parroting back to her friends partly to convince herself because she is feeling this weight of shame \/ of failure. She doesn\u2019t want to be the failed divorced woman in the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> One in four families experience domestic abuse\/domestic violence. That\u2019s not some other city \/ that\u2019s not some other part of the country\u2014that\u2019s in your church \/ \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\/ that is in your community. If you\u2019re not the one, you probably are fellowshipping and know someone that you go to church with who\u2019s experiencing this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Seventy-five percent of Americans have said that they know someone who is now or has gone though domestic abuse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Okay. I may know someone or I may be the person. You have an appendix in the back of your book that is entitled \u201cMaking a Safety Plan.\u201d This is going to be helpful for the woman, who can see it coming or finds herself in the middle of a violent or an abusive situation. It also could be helpful to a person who\u2019s providing counsel to somebody who\u2019s in this situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> By the way, we have this safety plan available on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. As you explain it, if listeners want more information, they can go to the web. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER\u201d; and you\u2019ll see the safety plan we\u2019re talking about here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat is it Justin?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> One of the most important things someone can do\u2014who is experiencing abuse\u2014is to make a safety plan. This isn\u2019t going back to the elephant in the room\u2014this is not a divorce plan \/ this isn\u2019t an anything plan\u2014this is getting safe. This is getting out of an abusive scenario, where you or the children are not safe. It doesn\u2019t have to be, \u201cI need this right now,\u201d \/ \u201c\u2026the next five hours.\u201d People can use it like that; but it goes through and asks very important questions like: \u201cWhat are the escape routes in the home?\u201d The purpose is to ask questions to get <em>you<\/em> thinking about: \u201cWhat does being safe look like?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cHow do I get out of the house?\u201d\u2014you\u2019re saying?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes. \u201cHow do I get out of the house?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIf the house was on fire, how do I\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Same kind of thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes; same type of thing because, if it escalates to the point where, suddenly, the threat becomes a reality, and you actually need to get out, where are you going to go? Actually think through that: \u201cWho can you call? Can you have a bag, ready somewhere, that you can grab stuff? What important documents will you need to have?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cDo you need Social Security numbers? Do you need birth certificates? What kind of documents should you be preparing for? Do you have access to a cell phone? What numbers\u2014who are you going to call if you get out with a bag and the documents\u2014well, who are you going to call? Where are you going to stay? Who can you call\u2014who can you imagine\u2026\u201d It\u2019s mostly to help them think through specific incidences of things they haven\u2019t thought about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMaking sure you actually can call the police \/ that you know where the police station is\u2014other questions. I can keep copies of important documents, such as immigration papers or birth certificates, at someone\u2019s house: \u201cCan you make a copy of them and then send them somewhere else?\u201d It\u2019s just helping them think through a strategic plan of safety for them and their children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re talking about a major move that is going to draw a line in the sand with that person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes. Some people haven\u2019t decided to leave. The average woman leaves and goes back to an abuser seven to twelve times. Even if you haven\u2019t even thought about leaving, you can prepare for it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPreparing doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re going to. We want people to be as prepared as possible to be safe in a violent, abusive relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Why do wives go back? What\u2019s taking place here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> There are so many reasons. Now, the first question that we need to answer is: \u201cWhy does he choose to abuse?\u201d And we\u2019ve answered that one; but I want to make sure the first question that most people ask is not, \u201cWhy is she going back?\u201d because, underlying that question, to some people, is: \u201cWhy is she so stupid to go back? If it\u2019s that bad, why is she going back?\u201d I\u2019m not saying you\u2019re asking that, I\u2019m saying\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No, no, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014but many people\u2014they\u2019re thinking: \u201cWell, if it\u2019s that bad? Is it really that bad because she\u2019s going back?\u201d But there are a number of reasons a woman would go back. The big one is she usually has to choose between staying in a violent relationship\/ abusive relationship in the home or being homeless. There are not a lot of places for an abused woman to go, with the children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOther reasons a woman would stay\u2014fear\u2014and that\u2019s the number one reason\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014fear of what he\u2019s going to do: \u201cWill he go for the children? Will he come after me?\u201d The most volatile and dangerous time\u2014where the most deaths occur in domestic abuse situations\u2014is after the woman\u2019s decided to leave the home and get safe \/ not file divorce papers\u2014I\u2019m just saying \u201cGet out of his power and control\u2014out of the house.\u201d So the fear of: \u201cIf I leave and stay away, is he going to come after me or the children?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I know a woman, who filed for separation from her husband. She was so terrified and horrified by the abuse that occurred to her she couldn\u2019t sleep in her own bed. So, she slept in the living room. She told me\u2014she said: \u201cDennis, at two a.m., I woke up. He had broken in the house and was standing over me.\u201d She said, \u201cAt that moment, I didn\u2019t know what he was going to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Well Lindsay worked at the domestic violence shelter. A few times, they found a man on the roof, with a pair of wire cutters, trying to cut the electricity to the domestic violence shelter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey had men running around the house with weapons, threatening, \u201cLet me in or else I\u2019m going to go crazy and start firing.\u201d So the men\u2014something happens when the person they\u2019re trying to control is no longer under their control. It frequently can escalate to life-threatening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Justin, I saw a statistic once that said 95 percent of people who have been abusers are going to be abusers for life\u2014basically said: \u201cIf you\u2019re married to this guy, you just need to own up to the fact that there\u2019s a 1 in 20 chance that this guy can ever change.\u201d Is that accurate?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> It\u2019s very discouraging to see the trajectory. I\u2019m not sure about the numbers. I have plenty of stats, but I don\u2019t have stats I would trust on that. I\u2019m not surprised by that. What I\u2019ve seen is\u2014usually, the men who get confronted about this, and you can see a difference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe ones that\u2014and I\u2018m not looking for worldly sorrow \/ who know how to say the right words\u2014what I look for is the man who says: \u201cYou\u2019re right. It\u2019s actually worse than that. Let me tell you some more. Let me go turn myself in and let my wife press charges if she wants to. And if she chooses to be with me, we need to have the eyes of the church and the leadership of our church on our marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> He gives away all power and control. I\u2019ve seen that happen a few times. I\u2019ve seen the wife say\u2014and she doesn\u2019t have a fantasy of change.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the other reasons\u2014going back to question\u2014the fantasy that he might change. I\u2019ve seen very few times, but I have seen God work in someone\u2019s life. What happens is\u2014many women go, \u201cOh\u2014maybe that will happen\u201d; and they hold on for four or five more bouts of abuse. It is very discouraging to see. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe men usually\u2014if they get confronted by authorities, the police and the church\u2014so the civil authority and the church authority\u2014when they get confronted by either or both, usually, they bail \/ they run\u2014and especially, in the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey\u2019ll just run to another church. They\u2019ll find some church where they can spin the story. People are happy to have more people in the church so: \u201cOh yes. I\u2019m sorry. You are a victim of your controlling wife.\u201d They\u2019ll just find another church. You can\u2019t do anything with church discipline or whatever the church structures have in place to protect and call what he\u2019s doing sin and call him to repentance, which is not just the fancy words\u2014the \u201cOh Baby\u2026\u201d to God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> So they can do the \u201cOh Baby\u2026\u201d to the church too, but repentance is the <em>turning<\/em> from your sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if you\u2019re sitting down with a guy\u2014and you\u2019ve talked to his wife and you go, \u201cIt is clear\u2014this is one of those classic narcissistic abuser kind of guys,\u201d\u2014you\u2019re hoping\/praying for a breakthrough in his life. Is there anything you can say to him? Is there anything that you can do to try to bring brokenness into his life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> One of the things I do, if I know there\u2019s domestic abuse happening, is\u2014I don\u2019t do marriage counseling because it\u2019s not a marriage counseling issue. I will actually counsel, pastorally, them separately. I will meet with her because that\u2019s one thing, and I will talk to him about other things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will say: \u201cHere\u2019s the thing\u2014it doesn\u2019t look good. You\u2019ve been doing this in other dimensions of your life and this does not look good. Since we actually have the Christian\u2019s worldview to talk about, let\u2019s just be honest\u2014this leads to death and destruction. This leads to <em>your<\/em> life looking miserable. You\u2019re on a trajectory to die <em>alone<\/em> and die with amazing amounts of guilt because of the failure and the devastation you\u2019ve brought to your wife, her family, and your children. You\u2019re on a pathway for destruction. Do you really want change?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMany of them say \u201cNo.\u201d Just like many people who say: \u201cNo, I haven\u2019t hit rock bottom. I don\u2019t want to let go of my addiction. I don\u2019t want to let go of this thing.\u201d Some of them will do the worldly-sorrow thing. Some of them\u2014God gets a hold of them, and they submit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod can change a man\u2019s heart to actually do the very thing God wants him to do\u2014will and do His good pleasure\u2014Philippians 2:13.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s call the elephant\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cHe\u2019s right here, about to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Restate it, Bob, because some of our listeners maybe joined us a little later in the conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The issue is\u2014with domestic violence \/ with the realities we\u2019re talking about\u2014and with all of us, here at the table, having a high view of the marriage covenant: \u201cHow do we reconcile those two things? What do we say to a wife who, herself, honors the marriage covenant \/ wants desperately to honor her marriage covenant\u2014what do the Scriptures say to her as to how she is to live?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> The first thing I want to say is that I\u2019m thankful we\u2019re talking about the elephant because too many women, when they\u2019ve talked to their pastor\u2014the first thing that they have heard is, \u201cWell, you know, God hates divorce,\u201d\u2014the very first\u2014not, \u201cI\u2019m sorry,\u201d not \u201cI believe you\u201d; but \u201cGod hates divorce.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat they do is\u2014they\u2019re shutting them down. I\u2019m thinking: \u201cShe\u2019s not coming to ask for divorce. She\u2019s asking her pastor to shepherd her soul.\u201d Yes the Bible does say God hates divorce\u2014I don\u2019t know, one, two, three times. You know what else He hates?\u2014abuse and violence. He says so, all throughout Scripture. I\u2019m not\u2014that\u2019s not how we interpret Scripture\u2014we don\u2019t take it and go, \u201cThis one says more over here than is over here,\u201d\u2014but He also hates abuse. You can say to her: \u201cThis is horrible, and I \u2018m sorry; but that\u2019s sin, and God hates that type of sin and violence that you\u2019re experiencing. That\u2019s got to be really painful.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, thank you for asking the question. Here\u2019s marriage, domestic abuse, and divorce. Marriage is a covenant, and divorce is the breaking of that covenant. When a man chooses to abuse, he breaks that covenant\u2014an abusive man is, I believe, forfeiting the right to remain married, unless the woman wants to stay married to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe problem that the woman experiences is that\u2014if the wife chooses to divorce him\u2014I\u2019ve told them: \u201cYou\u2019re making public his covenant breaking. You\u2019re the one\u2014it\u2019s the hardest thing to do\u2014you\u2019re actually being public about it. You\u2019re not sinning by making public the fact that <em>he<\/em> violated your covenant.\u201d If the wife chooses to divorce him, she is making a public statement that he has broken the covenant. This does not go against what the Bible says about divorce. I believe that he has forfeited his right to remain married unless she wants to remain married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And if somebody says, \u201cWhere\u2019s your text on that one?\u201d where do you take them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Exodus 20, where it talks about adultery, abuse, and abandonment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, but that\u2019s the Old Covenant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes, and it\u2019s the authoritative Word of God that was not revoked because of the New Covenant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I might differ with you just a little bit here. I\u2019m glad you started where you started with a compassionate approach to the woman, who\u2019s being subjected to that kind of abuse\u2014and the children as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think where I would go is\u2014I would talk about doing everything possible to be able to save that marriage and have it operate according to the covenant. As I think about divorce, I ask the question, \u201cDid Jesus allow for divorce?\u201d As I read what His teachings are, yes, one was in the case of adultery. The other was in the case of abandonment by either spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just thinking of a woman, whose husband was abusing her\u2014she got the ability to separate from him, legally\u2014which I think is part of using the law of the land to protect you \/ she got the church to help protect her, as well, both spiritually and physically\u2014got them involved\u2014started attempting to call the husband to repentance and to deal with his issue. Let\u2019s rush in to bring healing and wholeness to the abused wife; and let\u2019s see if there\u2019s a way to appeal to the husband, who is abusive. In this case, he is a fool; and he has to be corrected. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe has to be called out of his lifestyle\u2014way of thinking and way of treating his wife. Let\u2019s think about how the church needs to be\u2014it needs to be a redemptive force of love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJustin, I appreciate you being on the broadcast. Thanks for your book\u2014it\u2019s an excellent book. I\u2019d encourage people to get it. I think it\u2019s going to bring a lot of hope to a lot of people. Thanks for being on the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Well, thank you for the honor and privilege to be here, and talk about this dark subject, and for you to shine the light of the gospel on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, as you said today, it may be that 75 percent of our listeners know somebody who is currently experiencing domestic abuse. What you ought to do is get your friend a copy of Justin\u2019s book, <em>Is It My Fault?<\/em> and give it to them, as a gift. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d in the upper left-hand corner of the screen. You\u2019ll find a copy of Justin\u2019s book available there. You can order it from us, online. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are also articles \/ chapters from the book available for free download. You can do that and send that on to your friend as well. Send them a link to this series of programs and encourage them to listen in to the conversation we\u2019ve had here, this week, with Justin Holcomb. Again, our website is FamilyLifeTdoay.com. Click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d Or you can order the book by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I think we need to say a word of thanks today to the listeners who made the programs this week possible, as we\u2019ve been talking about domestic abuse. You have no idea how many couples are experiencing something like this and how many people have been helped by what they\u2019ve heard in our dialogue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose of you who support this program\u2014you are the ones who make all of this possible. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a listener-supported program. We\u2019re here to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families, day in and day out. When you support this ministry, you help make that a reality in your community and in communities all around the world. We\u2019re grateful for that support. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRight now, if you are able to make a donation in support of the ministry, we\u2019d like to express our gratitude tangibly by sending you a copy of our 2016 FamilyLife Prayer Calendar. It\u2019s our thank-you gift when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d\u2014make an online donation. Or when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014make a donation over the phone. Or you can mail your donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back tomorrow. We\u2019re going to introduce you to a couple that lived through some of what we\u2019ve been talking about this week. You\u2019ll meet Hans and Star Molegraaf and hear about how quickly, into their marriage relationship, patterns of anger and abuse began to emerge and how God dealt with that in their marriage. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.09M"],"filesize_raw":["28404959"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303672.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303672.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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your marriage is abusive, what should you do? Author and pastor Justin Holcomb gives some steps to take to devise your own safety plan.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-09-23.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Does abuse in a marriage relationship provide a husband or a wife with biblical grounds for a divorce? That is the elephant in the room that we\u2019re going to talk about today with author, Justin Holcomb.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> The first thing I want to say is that I\u2019m thankful we\u2019re talking about the elephant because too many women, when they\u2019ve talked to their pastor\u2014the first thing that they have heard is, \u201cWell, you know, God hates divorce,\u201d\u2014the very first\u2014not, \u201cI\u2019m sorry,\u201d or \u201cI believe you\u201d; but \u201cGod hates divorce.\u201d What they do is\u2014they\u2019re shutting them down. I\u2019m thinking: \u201cShe\u2019s not coming to ask for divorce. She\u2019s asking her pastor to shepherd her soul.\u201d Yes the Bible does say God hates divorce. You know what else He hates?\u2014abuse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>for Wednesday, September 23<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. So how do we honor our marriage covenant if we find ourselves in an abusive marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr are we off the hook, at that point? We\u2019ll explore that today. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. We are talking this week about the issue of domestic abuse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore we dive into that though, this is Day 23 of our 30-Day Oneness Prayer Challenge that we\u2019ve had going on during the month of September, encouraging husbands and wives to be praying together in marriage. Today\u2019s prayer topic is the importance of local church involvement. Today, we\u2019re encouraging husbands to pray that God would show you where and how you can be involved, as a couple, in a local church home. We\u2019re encouraging wives to pray for God to provide agreement in your marriage as to where and how you ought to worship together in a local church setting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe know, for some couples, they are just not on the same page in this area. We think it\u2019s important for you to be worshipping together, regularly, with a larger community of faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of our screen that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d and look for the Oneness Prayer Challenge logo. When you click on that, you can sign up to receive a prayer prompt each day. Even though we are near the end of September, you can go ahead and dive in, and start praying together, and then just continue into October. We\u2019ll continue to send you prayer prompts in the month to come. Again, sign up now\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d and take the 30-Day Oneness Prayer Challenge, as a couple. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we are talking this week about the issue of domestic abuse and domestic violence. I just feel like we\u2019ve got to get right to the elephant in the room that we\u2019ve not talked about yet this week\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and that is: \u201cDoes the Bible allow for divorce when you\u2019re in an abusive marriage?\u201d Folks who listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> know that we believe in the permanence of marriage and the marriage covenant\u2014that you need to take the \u201cD\u201d word off the table. So, if you\u2019re in an abusive marriage, is divorce acceptable? That\u2019s the elephant in the room.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know what? Let\u2019s deal with that\u2014but let\u2019s take a second, before we do get to that\u2014can we do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Alright. I want to introduce Justin Holcomb. He\u2019s written a book called <em>Is It My Fault?<\/em> And it\u2019s subtitled <em>Hope and Healing for Those Suffering from Domestic Violence<\/em>. Justin, as I welcome you back, what I want our listeners to know is\u2014Justin wrote this book with his wife. Both of them have really unique backgrounds in this area\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014Justin more in the biblical realm, and also as a pastor, and his wife from a counseling and therapy background. I want to take a step back and just ask you to describe: \u201cWhat does a victim of abuse feel? What are they absorbing, not only from a physical pain standpoint, but what\u2019s taking place in their lives?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> What they\u2019re feeling is <em>fear<\/em>\u2014fear of what kind of abuse and pain they\u2019re going to experience again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShame\u2014shame because, for many\u2014who are religious, especially\u2014they are failures at marriage \/ they must have done something. The Bible talks a lot about marriage, and wives, and how they relate\u2014and here they are. It\u2019s so celebrated in many churches\u2014and here they are\u2014the very thing that\u2019s celebrated is falling apart, and they can\u2019t hold it together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGuilt because they are assuming that it is their fault. A woman, who\u2019s getting abused, is thinking: \u201cWas it my abortion?\u201d \u201cWas it because we had sex before we got married?\u201d \u201cWhat is God punishing me for?\u201d\u2014some kind of divine karma type of thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnger because they\u2019re being trapped. They are worried about: \u201cDo I sit here and suffer this abuse? If I leave, where would I go? Who\u2019s going to believe me? And how do I take care of myself and the kids?\u201d There\u2019s anger at being sinned against and hurt like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn addition to fear, shame, guilt, and anger\u2014feeling like they\u2019re going crazy because they are thinking: \u201cWait a second, this is so confusing. He can say the most evil and humiliating things that cut to the heart and then another hour later he can tell me: \u2018I\u2019m so sorry. I love you so much.\u2019\u201d That is so disorienting\u2014to thinking: \u201cWell, maybe I do something that makes him angry because he\u2019s so nice out there at work, at church, with our friends; and then we get home. Maybe he\u2019s right\u2014maybe I set him off.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that\u2019s exactly it\u2014she begins to question reality\u2014maybe she has \/ maybe she\u2019s the one that\u2019s messed up and doesn\u2019t know how to interpret reality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I read a report, years ago, from the Nashville Police Department, where they talked about what they called the \u201cOh Baby Syndrome.\u201d They said\u2014 with domestic violence\u2014here\u2019s a common pattern: The abuser, after he has abused his wife, will come back\u2014in an hour, later that day, the next day, whenever it is\u2014but he will come back and it\u2019s: \u201cOh Baby, I\u2019m so sorry. Oh Baby I don\u2019t know what happened to me. Oh\u2014I don\u2019t want\u2014I\u2019m going to start going to church with you. I\u2019m going to play more with the kids. I\u2019m going to be a better man. I just need\u2026\u201d and he\u2019s weeping. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s this appearance of this guy, genuinely being broken, over what took place the hour before or the day before. The wife, so much wants to believe that this is real this time, that she says, \u201cOf course, come back in.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> She wants \/ she\u2019s hoping\u2014she chose this man, and she loves this man. This is the person that she decided to commit to and covenant with\u2014that she actually loves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She\u2019ll say to her friends: \u201cHe\u2019s a good man. You don\u2019t know him. He\u2019s a good man.\u201d And she\u2019ll start to describe the virtues of this individual. Why is she doing that? Why is she not saying, \u201cI need help\u2014this guy is attacking me\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Abuse \/ sustained abuse re-wires the synapses and how you actually understand reality. What happens is\u2014she actually does start believing while she\u2019s saying it: \u201cI guess he is the good guy, and he has these moments where he\u2019s not that bad.\u201d Then she starts downplaying and minimizing. She sees the good side because she starts giving voice to the things that he says to her. She starts parroting back to her friends partly to convince herself because she is feeling this weight of shame \/ of failure. She doesn\u2019t want to be the failed divorced woman in the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> One in four families experience domestic abuse\/domestic violence. That\u2019s not some other city \/ that\u2019s not some other part of the country\u2014that\u2019s in your church \/ \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\/ that is in your community. If you\u2019re not the one, you probably are fellowshipping and know someone that you go to church with who\u2019s experiencing this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Seventy-five percent of Americans have said that they know someone who is now or has gone though domestic abuse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Okay. I may know someone or I may be the person. You have an appendix in the back of your book that is entitled \u201cMaking a Safety Plan.\u201d This is going to be helpful for the woman, who can see it coming or finds herself in the middle of a violent or an abusive situation. It also could be helpful to a person who\u2019s providing counsel to somebody who\u2019s in this situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> By the way, we have this safety plan available on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. As you explain it, if listeners want more information, they can go to the web. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER\u201d; and you\u2019ll see the safety plan we\u2019re talking about here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat is it Justin?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> One of the most important things someone can do\u2014who is experiencing abuse\u2014is to make a safety plan. This isn\u2019t going back to the elephant in the room\u2014this is not a divorce plan \/ this isn\u2019t an anything plan\u2014this is getting safe. This is getting out of an abusive scenario, where you or the children are not safe. It doesn\u2019t have to be, \u201cI need this right now,\u201d \/ \u201c\u2026the next five hours.\u201d People can use it like that; but it goes through and asks very important questions like: \u201cWhat are the escape routes in the home?\u201d The purpose is to ask questions to get <em>you<\/em> thinking about: \u201cWhat does being safe look like?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cHow do I get out of the house?\u201d\u2014you\u2019re saying?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes. \u201cHow do I get out of the house?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIf the house was on fire, how do I\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Same kind of thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes; same type of thing because, if it escalates to the point where, suddenly, the threat becomes a reality, and you actually need to get out, where are you going to go? Actually think through that: \u201cWho can you call? Can you have a bag, ready somewhere, that you can grab stuff? What important documents will you need to have?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cDo you need Social Security numbers? Do you need birth certificates? What kind of documents should you be preparing for? Do you have access to a cell phone? What numbers\u2014who are you going to call if you get out with a bag and the documents\u2014well, who are you going to call? Where are you going to stay? Who can you call\u2014who can you imagine\u2026\u201d It\u2019s mostly to help them think through specific incidences of things they haven\u2019t thought about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMaking sure you actually can call the police \/ that you know where the police station is\u2014other questions. I can keep copies of important documents, such as immigration papers or birth certificates, at someone\u2019s house: \u201cCan you make a copy of them and then send them somewhere else?\u201d It\u2019s just helping them think through a strategic plan of safety for them and their children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re talking about a major move that is going to draw a line in the sand with that person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes. Some people haven\u2019t decided to leave. The average woman leaves and goes back to an abuser seven to twelve times. Even if you haven\u2019t even thought about leaving, you can prepare for it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPreparing doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re going to. We want people to be as prepared as possible to be safe in a violent, abusive relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Why do wives go back? What\u2019s taking place here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> There are so many reasons. Now, the first question that we need to answer is: \u201cWhy does he choose to abuse?\u201d And we\u2019ve answered that one; but I want to make sure the first question that most people ask is not, \u201cWhy is she going back?\u201d because, underlying that question, to some people, is: \u201cWhy is she so stupid to go back? If it\u2019s that bad, why is she going back?\u201d I\u2019m not saying you\u2019re asking that, I\u2019m saying\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No, no, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014but many people\u2014they\u2019re thinking: \u201cWell, if it\u2019s that bad? Is it really that bad because she\u2019s going back?\u201d But there are a number of reasons a woman would go back. The big one is she usually has to choose between staying in a violent relationship\/ abusive relationship in the home or being homeless. There are not a lot of places for an abused woman to go, with the children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOther reasons a woman would stay\u2014fear\u2014and that\u2019s the number one reason\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014fear of what he\u2019s going to do: \u201cWill he go for the children? Will he come after me?\u201d The most volatile and dangerous time\u2014where the most deaths occur in domestic abuse situations\u2014is after the woman\u2019s decided to leave the home and get safe \/ not file divorce papers\u2014I\u2019m just saying \u201cGet out of his power and control\u2014out of the house.\u201d So the fear of: \u201cIf I leave and stay away, is he going to come after me or the children?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I know a woman, who filed for separation from her husband. She was so terrified and horrified by the abuse that occurred to her she couldn\u2019t sleep in her own bed. So, she slept in the living room. She told me\u2014she said: \u201cDennis, at two a.m., I woke up. He had broken in the house and was standing over me.\u201d She said, \u201cAt that moment, I didn\u2019t know what he was going to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Well Lindsay worked at the domestic violence shelter. A few times, they found a man on the roof, with a pair of wire cutters, trying to cut the electricity to the domestic violence shelter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey had men running around the house with weapons, threatening, \u201cLet me in or else I\u2019m going to go crazy and start firing.\u201d So the men\u2014something happens when the person they\u2019re trying to control is no longer under their control. It frequently can escalate to life-threatening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Justin, I saw a statistic once that said 95 percent of people who have been abusers are going to be abusers for life\u2014basically said: \u201cIf you\u2019re married to this guy, you just need to own up to the fact that there\u2019s a 1 in 20 chance that this guy can ever change.\u201d Is that accurate?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> It\u2019s very discouraging to see the trajectory. I\u2019m not sure about the numbers. I have plenty of stats, but I don\u2019t have stats I would trust on that. I\u2019m not surprised by that. What I\u2019ve seen is\u2014usually, the men who get confronted about this, and you can see a difference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe ones that\u2014and I\u2018m not looking for worldly sorrow \/ who know how to say the right words\u2014what I look for is the man who says: \u201cYou\u2019re right. It\u2019s actually worse than that. Let me tell you some more. Let me go turn myself in and let my wife press charges if she wants to. And if she chooses to be with me, we need to have the eyes of the church and the leadership of our church on our marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> He gives away all power and control. I\u2019ve seen that happen a few times. I\u2019ve seen the wife say\u2014and she doesn\u2019t have a fantasy of change.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the other reasons\u2014going back to question\u2014the fantasy that he might change. I\u2019ve seen very few times, but I have seen God work in someone\u2019s life. What happens is\u2014many women go, \u201cOh\u2014maybe that will happen\u201d; and they hold on for four or five more bouts of abuse. It is very discouraging to see. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe men usually\u2014if they get confronted by authorities, the police and the church\u2014so the civil authority and the church authority\u2014when they get confronted by either or both, usually, they bail \/ they run\u2014and especially, in the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey\u2019ll just run to another church. They\u2019ll find some church where they can spin the story. People are happy to have more people in the church so: \u201cOh yes. I\u2019m sorry. You are a victim of your controlling wife.\u201d They\u2019ll just find another church. You can\u2019t do anything with church discipline or whatever the church structures have in place to protect and call what he\u2019s doing sin and call him to repentance, which is not just the fancy words\u2014the \u201cOh Baby\u2026\u201d to God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> So they can do the \u201cOh Baby\u2026\u201d to the church too, but repentance is the <em>turning<\/em> from your sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if you\u2019re sitting down with a guy\u2014and you\u2019ve talked to his wife and you go, \u201cIt is clear\u2014this is one of those classic narcissistic abuser kind of guys,\u201d\u2014you\u2019re hoping\/praying for a breakthrough in his life. Is there anything you can say to him? Is there anything that you can do to try to bring brokenness into his life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> One of the things I do, if I know there\u2019s domestic abuse happening, is\u2014I don\u2019t do marriage counseling because it\u2019s not a marriage counseling issue. I will actually counsel, pastorally, them separately. I will meet with her because that\u2019s one thing, and I will talk to him about other things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will say: \u201cHere\u2019s the thing\u2014it doesn\u2019t look good. You\u2019ve been doing this in other dimensions of your life and this does not look good. Since we actually have the Christian\u2019s worldview to talk about, let\u2019s just be honest\u2014this leads to death and destruction. This leads to <em>your<\/em> life looking miserable. You\u2019re on a trajectory to die <em>alone<\/em> and die with amazing amounts of guilt because of the failure and the devastation you\u2019ve brought to your wife, her family, and your children. You\u2019re on a pathway for destruction. Do you really want change?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMany of them say \u201cNo.\u201d Just like many people who say: \u201cNo, I haven\u2019t hit rock bottom. I don\u2019t want to let go of my addiction. I don\u2019t want to let go of this thing.\u201d Some of them will do the worldly-sorrow thing. Some of them\u2014God gets a hold of them, and they submit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod can change a man\u2019s heart to actually do the very thing God wants him to do\u2014will and do His good pleasure\u2014Philippians 2:13.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s call the elephant\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cHe\u2019s right here, about to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Restate it, Bob, because some of our listeners maybe joined us a little later in the conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The issue is\u2014with domestic violence \/ with the realities we\u2019re talking about\u2014and with all of us, here at the table, having a high view of the marriage covenant: \u201cHow do we reconcile those two things? What do we say to a wife who, herself, honors the marriage covenant \/ wants desperately to honor her marriage covenant\u2014what do the Scriptures say to her as to how she is to live?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> The first thing I want to say is that I\u2019m thankful we\u2019re talking about the elephant because too many women, when they\u2019ve talked to their pastor\u2014the first thing that they have heard is, \u201cWell, you know, God hates divorce,\u201d\u2014the very first\u2014not, \u201cI\u2019m sorry,\u201d not \u201cI believe you\u201d; but \u201cGod hates divorce.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat they do is\u2014they\u2019re shutting them down. I\u2019m thinking: \u201cShe\u2019s not coming to ask for divorce. She\u2019s asking her pastor to shepherd her soul.\u201d Yes the Bible does say God hates divorce\u2014I don\u2019t know, one, two, three times. You know what else He hates?\u2014abuse and violence. He says so, all throughout Scripture. I\u2019m not\u2014that\u2019s not how we interpret Scripture\u2014we don\u2019t take it and go, \u201cThis one says more over here than is over here,\u201d\u2014but He also hates abuse. You can say to her: \u201cThis is horrible, and I \u2018m sorry; but that\u2019s sin, and God hates that type of sin and violence that you\u2019re experiencing. That\u2019s got to be really painful.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, thank you for asking the question. Here\u2019s marriage, domestic abuse, and divorce. Marriage is a covenant, and divorce is the breaking of that covenant. When a man chooses to abuse, he breaks that covenant\u2014an abusive man is, I believe, forfeiting the right to remain married, unless the woman wants to stay married to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe problem that the woman experiences is that\u2014if the wife chooses to divorce him\u2014I\u2019ve told them: \u201cYou\u2019re making public his covenant breaking. You\u2019re the one\u2014it\u2019s the hardest thing to do\u2014you\u2019re actually being public about it. You\u2019re not sinning by making public the fact that <em>he<\/em> violated your covenant.\u201d If the wife chooses to divorce him, she is making a public statement that he has broken the covenant. This does not go against what the Bible says about divorce. I believe that he has forfeited his right to remain married unless she wants to remain married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And if somebody says, \u201cWhere\u2019s your text on that one?\u201d where do you take them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Exodus 20, where it talks about adultery, abuse, and abandonment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, but that\u2019s the Old Covenant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes, and it\u2019s the authoritative Word of God that was not revoked because of the New Covenant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I might differ with you just a little bit here. I\u2019m glad you started where you started with a compassionate approach to the woman, who\u2019s being subjected to that kind of abuse\u2014and the children as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think where I would go is\u2014I would talk about doing everything possible to be able to save that marriage and have it operate according to the covenant. As I think about divorce, I ask the question, \u201cDid Jesus allow for divorce?\u201d As I read what His teachings are, yes, one was in the case of adultery. The other was in the case of abandonment by either spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just thinking of a woman, whose husband was abusing her\u2014she got the ability to separate from him, legally\u2014which I think is part of using the law of the land to protect you \/ she got the church to help protect her, as well, both spiritually and physically\u2014got them involved\u2014started attempting to call the husband to repentance and to deal with his issue. Let\u2019s rush in to bring healing and wholeness to the abused wife; and let\u2019s see if there\u2019s a way to appeal to the husband, who is abusive. In this case, he is a fool; and he has to be corrected. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe has to be called out of his lifestyle\u2014way of thinking and way of treating his wife. Let\u2019s think about how the church needs to be\u2014it needs to be a redemptive force of love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJustin, I appreciate you being on the broadcast. Thanks for your book\u2014it\u2019s an excellent book. I\u2019d encourage people to get it. I think it\u2019s going to bring a lot of hope to a lot of people. Thanks for being on the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Well, thank you for the honor and privilege to be here, and talk about this dark subject, and for you to shine the light of the gospel on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, as you said today, it may be that 75 percent of our listeners know somebody who is currently experiencing domestic abuse. What you ought to do is get your friend a copy of Justin\u2019s book, <em>Is It My Fault?<\/em> and give it to them, as a gift. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d in the upper left-hand corner of the screen. You\u2019ll find a copy of Justin\u2019s book available there. You can order it from us, online. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are also articles \/ chapters from the book available for free download. You can do that and send that on to your friend as well. Send them a link to this series of programs and encourage them to listen in to the conversation we\u2019ve had here, this week, with Justin Holcomb. Again, our website is FamilyLifeTdoay.com. Click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d Or you can order the book by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I think we need to say a word of thanks today to the listeners who made the programs this week possible, as we\u2019ve been talking about domestic abuse. You have no idea how many couples are experiencing something like this and how many people have been helped by what they\u2019ve heard in our dialogue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose of you who support this program\u2014you are the ones who make all of this possible. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a listener-supported program. We\u2019re here to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families, day in and day out. When you support this ministry, you help make that a reality in your community and in communities all around the world. We\u2019re grateful for that support. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRight now, if you are able to make a donation in support of the ministry, we\u2019d like to express our gratitude tangibly by sending you a copy of our 2016 FamilyLife Prayer Calendar. It\u2019s our thank-you gift when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d\u2014make an online donation. Or when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014make a donation over the phone. Or you can mail your donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back tomorrow. We\u2019re going to introduce you to a couple that lived through some of what we\u2019ve been talking about this week. You\u2019ll meet Hans and Star Molegraaf and hear about how quickly, into their marriage relationship, patterns of anger and abuse began to emerge and how God dealt with that in their marriage. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303672","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303672"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303672"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303672"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303672"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303672"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303672"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303672"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}