{"id":303664,"date":"2015-09-17T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2015-09-17T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/desire-and-holiness\/"},"modified":"2015-09-17T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2015-09-17T15:00:00","slug":"desire-and-holiness","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/desire-and-holiness\/","title":{"rendered":"Desire and Holiness"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>God thinks highly of the sexual union. After all, He created it. Professor Dan Allender walks us through the Song of Solomon and shares some practical advice for contemporary husbands and wives.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-09-17.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.88M","filesize_raw":"23993874","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2088],"tags":[5819,2991],"podcast_series":[8101],"cwp_profile":[3437],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303664","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-romance-and-sex","tag-intimacy-in-marriage","tag-sex","podcast_series-finding-holiness-in-intimacy","cwp_profile-dan-allender","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303664\/desire-and-holiness","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303664\/desire-and-holiness","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Lx0kUx3Bcf\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/desire-and-holiness\/\">Desire and Holiness<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/desire-and-holiness\/embed\/#?secret=Lx0kUx3Bcf\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Desire and Holiness&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Lx0kUx3Bcf\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"God thinks highly of the sexual union. After all, He created it. Professor Dan Allender walks us through the Song of Solomon and shares some practical advice for contemporary husbands and wives.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-09-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Our longing to be sexually intimate with another person is a God-given longing; but author and counselor, Dan Allender, says it\u2019s critical that we pay attention to what the Bible says about how we satisfy that longing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>I\u2019m not blaming that person\u2019s desire. What I am saying is the very desire has something holy\u2014you want back to Eden\u2014and you will never find your way back in through pornography, through fantasizing, through emotional affairs, through affairs. Again, the very food you are eating\u2014it\u2019s <em>poisonous<\/em>. It will not only create more hunger, but it will eventually <em>kill<\/em> you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, September 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. When it comes to human sexuality, there is nothing like God\u2019s design for how we are to enjoy one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to explore that subject today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. For those of you who have been with us this month, as we\u2019re going through our 30-Day Oneness Prayer Challenge, we are on Day 17. We\u2019ve just got a couple weeks to go in the 30-day challenge. Today, our focus in our prayers is on how we build unity and oneness, even in the midst of hard times. We\u2019re encouraging husbands to pray that God would strengthen your union, even in the midst of difficult times, and encouraging wives to pray that God would energize both of you to continue to invest in each other\u2014especially in those times when you are facing hardship together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope this 30-Day Oneness Prayer Challenge has been an encouragement to those of you who are taking part. And if you\u2019ve not joined us over the last couple of weeks, you can still take part in the final two weeks of the prayer challenge by signing up today. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d Then, click on the link for the Oneness Prayer Challenge. Sign up and we\u2019ll send you\u2014either by text, or email, or through your My FamilyLife app\u2014your prayer prompt each day. You can be a part of the last few weeks of the prayer challenge with us as we build into our marriage this discipline of praying together, each day, as a husband and as a wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we\u2019re talking about intimacy in marriage this week. One of the things that I have observed over the last\u2014I guess it\u2019s been since the late 1960s \/ early \u201870s\u2014the sexual revolution\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014is there seems to have been a conscious uncoupling, in our culture, of the soul and the body when it comes to human sexuality\u2014as if we can experience meaningful sexual relations without our soul being engaged at all, turning it into kind of a recreational activity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I think, when we do that \/ what we\u2019ve found\u2014if you look at\u2014at least, as I look at it, just sitting here\u2014you find that, in that case, you have emptied sexuality of much of its depth and its richness. You\u2019ve taken down to kind of the bare minimum of what God designed for it to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. If you really look at life and if you read the Bible, you have to conclude: \u201cLife is a struggle between good and evil, and evil has certainly attacked the good things God has created.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSex, certainly, is one of those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we have a friend with us in the studio who has coauthored a book with Tremper Longman\u2014Dr. Dan Allender joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014the author of <em>God Loves Sex<\/em>. Welcome back, Dan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Thank you, Dennis. Thank you, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is subtitled: <em>An Honest Conversation about Sexual Desire and Holiness<\/em>. I just tell the listener: \u201cYes, that book is an honest conversation and so will today\u2019s broadcast. So, stay tuned.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And so is the Song of Solomon\u2014but I have to start right off\u2014because in this book, you are disagreeing with Charles Spurgeon and many other Bible commentators throughout the centuries. They have taught us that the Song of Solomon is to be understood as allegory, and you don\u2019t think so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>I don\u2019t believe so. Allegory is a story with <em>symbolic<\/em> characters that carries on a plot that is very\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014in many ways, meaningful to a person who is reading it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we know about Song of Songs are two things. Number one: It is so sexual that it is disturbing\u2014and has been disturbing\u2014to the Christian community and to the Jewish community. Aqaba\u2014several centuries before Christ\u2014actually said that anyone who would think of this, as a ditty that was carnal, will go to hell. And many of the fathers of the faith\u2014second, third, fourth, fifth century\u2014felt the very same. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd really, up until the twentieth century, did we really begin to see that this is actually erotic sexual poetry that is very common in the ancient near east; but it is not an allegory of Christ and the church \/ not an allegory of God and His relationship with His people. There are certainly other passages that make that very clear, but the discomfort with sexuality and the misinterpretation of this as an allegory has made it very difficult to bring the true sexuality of the material into a conversation in the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have a theory on this. I think that the monks, centuries ago, found themselves in monasteries reading the Song of Songs. They said: \u201cNo, this has to be an allegory. If it\u2019s really this good, let me out of here.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s only a theory, by the way; and I really wouldn\u2019t bet my life on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me go back to the book. I want to read the beginning of Song of Songs. In \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChapter 1, it says\u2014verse 2: \u201cLet him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth, for your love is better than wine. Your anointing oils are fragrant. Your name is oil poured out. Therefore, virgins love you. Draw me after you. Let us run. The king has brought me into his chambers.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Whoa!\u00a0 I\u2019m just telling you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Huh?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>\u2014it\u2019s good poetry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is. To make that allegory\u2014I\u2019m sorry\u2014it\u2019s the reality of a woman who was attracted to her beloved. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, we\u2019ve got so much clarity that his reputation is what arouses her. Right there\u2014it is centuries before we have done research on sexuality. What we\u2019ve got\u2014data\u2014is that a man is generally aroused by sight, but a woman is aroused by reputation\u2014by how a man handles his life \/ by his character\u2014not mere popularity\u2014but a level of respect among his peers, both genders. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we are finding is that\u2014wait a minute\u2014this is centuries- \/ this is millennia-old poetry that\u2019s actually speaking to the reality of how we are really made. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You use the word, \u201carouse,\u201d several times in your sentences there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tUnpack the concept of desire. What\u2019s behind this?\u00a0 Why did God make us with desires?\u00a0 <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s start with the fact that you have hunger, you have thirst, you need air. There are physical realities that He has put within your body\u2014and senses\u2014we normally talk about the five\u2014are ways that we access what our body needs. So, the fact that we are visually sensual and that we are aroused by beauty\u2014well, God made us that way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me just tell you a hard fact. A small child\u2014three- \/ four- \/ five-day old\u2014will turn his or her head toward a more beautiful face than toward a less beautiful face. It\u2019s a way of saying: \u201cChildren are hard-wired for beauty. They are hard-wired to see a beautiful face and be drawn to it.\u201d If a baby, who has not even developed language about the nature of beauty or attractability, is actually able to note it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014well, you can say that God has created that within us. So, we were meant for beauty; and we desire it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know Lewis\u2019s old phrase: \u201cI do not want to just <em>see<\/em> beauty. I want to become one with it.\u201d\u00a0 Now, we\u2019re beyond just mere senses of desire for pleasure. We are actually asking for union. Again, if you think what I\u2019m meaning is sexual union\u2014male\/female\u2014I am including that, but it\u2019s the union of heart and mind\u2014something physical that allows us a sense of the other\u2014the transcendent, that which we can\u2019t see. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, now, what we have is\u2014God has wedded us to the physical \/ to the invisible. He holds together both\u2014desiring for us to enjoy the things of this life, but desiring <em>more<\/em> than this life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if that\u2019s the longing of the human soul, how do we get to a hookup culture?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014 where people go: \u201cIt\u2019s just like a tennis match. We just get together and have sex, and it is pure recreation.\u201d\u00a0 Have we so numbed our souls to get there?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>You can\u2019t numb your soul so much that you have lost what He put in you. Ecclesiastes tells us that He built eternity into our hearts. In one sense, you can almost presume: \u201cAnyone who begins to satisfy their heart and their body, apart from God, will end up in a path of addiction of some sort.\u201d\u00a0 They need more in order to quench\u2014that is to deny or ignore but also to satisfy. So, the more I need, the more it quells the deeper desire, but also, satisfies the small immediate desire. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt some point, you begin to realize that what you were made for is way more than what you are currently experiencing. That desire is the desire of eternity that a hookup culture still can\u2019t escape. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying we were made for worship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we don\u2019t worship God, we\u2019ll go on to worship creation\u2014not the Creator. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>And that\u2019s called idolatry, which the Scriptures, also, refer often to as adultery. So, idolatry and adultery are really one in the same thing. When you are unfaithful to your spouse, you are ultimately unfaithful to God. When you are trying to find life outside of engagement with your spouse, you are ultimately trying to find life outside of the purposes of God. It will always be worship; but it will always be, in that sense, idolatry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I watch just enough TV and movies that I\u2019ve caught the trend that\u2014I don\u2019t know if this is life imitating art or art going ahead of life\u2014but it seems to be that, at least in the movies and on TV, about the second or third date, you are headed for sex. In the culture today, that\u2019s the innate thinking of a lot of young people growing up in our culture today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow\u2019d we get there, Dan?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, think what sex brings\u2014it is fusion \/ it is union\u2014it\u2019s not mere pleasure. It\u2019s a kind of intimacy that our hearts were most made to experience in heaven. Sex, outside of marriage, is an attempt to get back into Eden. It\u2019s an attempt to find a way back to the world where there was innocence, and goodness, and no harm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn one sense, I\u2019m not blaming that person\u2019s desire. What I am saying is\u2014we want to provide you with a way to know the fullness of what that desire brings, but it will never be trying to get back into Eden because there are two angels that will guard that gate. You will never find your way back in through pornography, through fantasizing, through emotional affairs, through affairs. Again, the very desire has something holy\u2014you want back to Eden\u2014and yet, the very food you\u2019re eating\u2014it\u2019s <em>poisonous<\/em>. It will not only create more hunger, but it will eventually <em>kill<\/em> you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s talk for a moment about how this desire gets expressed in marriage because you point out, rightly, that there is a difference between how a woman expresses her desire and how a man expresses his. And here, in the first chapter we just read, she complimented her man. I think a wife, sometimes, forgets how powerful her words can be to her husband in affirming him for who he is, expressing respect for his character. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Oh, and for his body\u2014even as an aging man, in my\u2014I\u2019m 63\u2014I\u2019m nothing what I was; but my wife needs to be able to put her hand on my face and say, \u201cNo one\u2019s face is like yours.\u201d\u00a0 Now, that could be misheard. [Laughter]\u00a0 Nonetheless, with her eyes and her presence, there\u2019s a sense in which, \u201cI delight in your aging body!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat kind of sensuality\u2014look, it\u2019s written all through this book. When we come to Chapter 5, she\u2019s complimenting his body, from head to toe, and everything in between. We\u2019ll leave it as ambiguous as that on the radio. As she\u2019s complimenting\u2014rejoicing\/celebrating\u2014his body, let\u2019s just note there is no thought that this culture is saying, \u201cA man is more sexual than a woman.\u201d\u00a0 This is assuming a woman is as sexual as a man but different. In that difference, of course, there will be struggles. Nonetheless, let\u2019s not back away and say, \u201cMen want sex, and women are more reluctant.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay, you know half the people, driving down the highway, right now, just said: \u201cThat\u2019s not the reality in our marriage. I mean, it\u2019s my husband who is always the one\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201cI\u2019m exhausted\u2026; you know?\u201d\u00a0 Dennis likes to say, \u201cIt is right behind sorting hangers on my list of things I want to do,\u201d\u2014for a wife. So, you\u2019re saying God made it equal. Husbands and wives are saying, \u201cUh-uh.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>And I\u2019m saying, \u201cIndeed, uh-uh,\u201d because, in so many ways, evil has actually won\u2014through your past abuse, through your past promiscuity, through the issues of your marriage, and the heartache and hurt, through not dealing with sex. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat research indicates is that less than 18 percent of couples talk about sex profitably. Almost all the discussions about sex are blame or guilt. In that sense\u2014like: \u201cI want more, and you\u2019re not\u2026.\u201d or \u201cThis doesn\u2019t feel good,\u201d \u201cWhy aren\u2019t we doing this?\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s accusatory \/ it\u2019s <em>demeaning<\/em>. Even when it is so called positive criticism, it\u2019s without delight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, let\u2019s just go back and say, \u201cSex will never work if there is not delight and honor.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf there\u2019s not respect and care, then, what did you think?\u2014that somehow by buying the shoes, you\u2019re going to be able to run a marathon?\u00a0 No, I\u2019m sorry\u2014it\u2019s good that you look good in that new outfit\u2014but you\u2019ve got to do what\u2019s called training. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTraining will require you to leave your mother and father. And so many people have not faced how they are still bound in their family of origin; but you\u2019ve, also, got to learn how to talk in a way in which brings honor and heartache, but then, growth and restoration. The ability to talk is essential for the ability to make love with delight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay, but if you were to ask me to list: \u201cWhat have been the hardest kinds of conversations to have in your marriage?\u201d\u2014over the years that we\u2019ve been married, talking about sex would be pretty close to the top. Do you and Becky have this mastered to where you guys are able to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Oh, yes, we\u2019re so perfect!\u00a0 That\u2019s what I\u2019m here to share. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>All the hands at the table are being raised here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Because we are all saying, \u201cOf course, some of the most shame-based conversations are about our sexuality.\u201d\u00a0 You can\u2019t even begin to do this kind of work until you\u2019ve learned to pray together in a way in which it\u2019s not just a ritual\u2014but we know we are dealing with warfare. We know we\u2019re dealing with our own past heartache and hurt. We\u2019re having to, now, get naked in prayer. A lot of people have never been naked in prayer. No wonder, in that sense, they are trying to have sex with their clothes on\u2014it\u2019s not going to work. It\u2019s not going to work well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when we begin to actually name what\u2019s required for us to begin to enjoy the kind of sexuality that\u2019s being spoken of so easily and naturally in Song of Solomon, we\u2019ve got to step back and say: \u201cThe Scriptures call us to be far more than we will actually, likely, ever be\u201d; but we are not to relent and say, \u201cOh, well, we can never be that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are to actually dream and desire that our sexuality be actually part of our worship. Now, when you begin to name that, you are going to do the work of naming: \u201cWhat\u2019s keeping us from that?\u201d and \u201cWhat\u2019s required for us to move toward it?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I shared with you, earlier, that Mary Ann had a delicate neuro surgery a year ago, where we put her brain in the hands of a skilled surgeon. I almost hear you saying that the surgery that needs to happen, in terms of our sexuality, a husband and wife need to go deep and do that surgery. I\u2019m wondering, \u201cCan the average husband and wife sit down and do that without doing more damage than good?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, what I believe most of all is that anyone whose desire is to grow in Christ, <em>through<\/em> the process of worship, will open the door to trying to name what\u2019s blocking them\u2014what\u2019s keeping them. They won\u2019t just learn to survive. That level of ownership of: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThis is meant to be so much better than it is currently. I\u2019m not blaming you \/ you\u2019re not blaming me.\u201d We are simply acknowledging that, somehow, sex could be so much better. At that point, you\u2019ve already done, I think, the major work. You\u2019ve allowed desire to take you to honesty, and then, to hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, where next?\u2014maybe, it is a therapist; maybe, it\u2019s a good pastor; maybe, it\u2019s a mentor couple\u2014but owning that: \u201cThis surgery needs to occur.\u201d It\u2019s now opening you to the community of God\u2014which includes a righteous church, reading the Scriptures, growing with others and having guides\u2014sometimes, who can walk with you on certain paths that are very, very steep, and difficult, and very dangerous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This may be where your suggestion, Dennis, that a husband and wife get a copy of Dan\u2019s book and read through it together, a chapter at a time\u2014he highlights his part \/ she highlights hers. This could be the guide that might help them take some steps in the right direction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And if I might add, I think, too, a discussion of: \u201cHow well are you loving each other?\u201d\u00a0 Just pragmatically\u2014just go back to the basics and say, \u201cHow are we serving one another and going out of our way to be kind?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, another key area that I think can release the dam, Dan\u2014that you talked about\u2014is forgiveness. When\u2019s the last time you asked your spouse to forgive you?\u00a0 Think back\u2014when is the last time you went to your wife\u2014if you\u2019re a husband\u2014and said, \u201cYou know, Sweetheart, I was wrong when I\u2026.\u201d? Don\u2019t have any excuses. Don\u2019t try to crawfish your way out of it. Don\u2019t try to justify. Instead, decide, before God, \u201cYou know what? We\u2019re going to break through, by God\u2019s grace, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, and some good coaching,\u201d\u2014which Dan and Tremper Longman provide in this book. I think you can see Almighty God show up. The same thing that happened, when Christ was risen from the dead, I think you can see happen in your marriage as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ve got copies of Dan and Tremper\u2019s book, called <em>God Loves Sex<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Listeners can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cGO DEEPER\u201d; and you can order a copy of the book from us, online, if you would like. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d in order to request a copy of the book, <em>God Loves Sex<\/em>; or you can call to order the book at 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, we have information about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com as well. When you click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d look for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> icon. Find out more about these two-and-a-half-day getaways for couples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got about 30 of these events that are going to be happening in the next 12 weeks. We\u2019d love to have you join us for a fun, romantic getaway weekend at one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, what we\u2019re all about, here at FamilyLife, is providing you with practical biblical help and hope for every aspect of your marriage relationship and your family relationships as well. We believe that strong, healthy families are the foundation of any civilization; and we believe that, maybe, as never before in our culture, families need to be strengthened and anchored in the truth of God\u2019s Word. We\u2019re grateful for those of you who share this burden with us and who help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks to those of you who will occasionally get in touch with us to make a donation\u2014and a special thanks to those of you who are Legacy Partners and contribute each month in support of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRight now, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a 2016 calendar for your family. This is a prayer calendar\u2014it is designed to point you toward prayer throughout the year of 2016. It actually begins in October. So, when you get it, you can put it up right away and start using this as your calendar for the remainder of this year and for the coming year as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAsk to receive a copy of the 2016 Family Prayer Calendar when you donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d to make an online donation; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and make your donation over the phone. Or you can mail a donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Our mailing address is PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. Be sure to ask for the 2016 calendar when you mail your donation to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd be sure to be back again with us tomorrow. Dr. Dan Allender is going to be here as well. We\u2019re going to talk about just how meaningful things like touch can be in a marriage relationship\u2014holding hands \/ hugging one another\u2014things that you may have let slip in your relationship in marriage. We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow. Hope you can tune in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303664","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303664"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303664"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303664"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303664"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303664"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303664"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303664"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}