{"id":303662,"date":"2015-09-16T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2015-09-16T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/to-know-and-be-known\/"},"modified":"2015-09-16T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2015-09-16T15:00:00","slug":"to-know-and-be-known","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/to-know-and-be-known\/","title":{"rendered":"To Know and Be Known"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>God loves sex. Surprised? Well-known author and speaker, Dan Allender, reminds listeners that sex was designed by God to be a good and enjoyable part of marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-09-16.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.71M","filesize_raw":"23812584","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2088],"tags":[5819,2991],"podcast_series":[8101],"cwp_profile":[3437],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303662","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-romance-and-sex","tag-intimacy-in-marriage","tag-sex","podcast_series-finding-holiness-in-intimacy","cwp_profile-dan-allender","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303662\/to-know-and-be-known","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303662\/to-know-and-be-known","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"VZOhvlUHpH\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/to-know-and-be-known\/\">To Know and Be Known<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/to-know-and-be-known\/embed\/#?secret=VZOhvlUHpH\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;To Know and Be Known&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"VZOhvlUHpH\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"God loves sex. Surprised? Well-known author and speaker, Dan Allender, reminds listeners that sex was designed by God to be a good and enjoyable part of marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-09-16.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>By the time any of us reaches adulthood, it\u2019s a virtual certainty that we have sinned and\/or been sinned against, sexually. Dr. Dan Allender says that\u2019s where the gospel comes into play. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Where death wanted to win, where shame wanted to win, where sense of despair wanted to win\u2014what violence has been done against you \/ what violence you\u2019ve done to yourself or to someone else\u2014see, the gospel isn\u2019t about that being covered over so we can forget it. The gospel is, actually\u2014now, we can enter this terrain, where there is much damage, and begin the process of seeing restoration and rebuilding. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, September 16<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. The Bible teaches that God loves us. It, also, teaches that God loves sex. We\u2019ll explore that with Dan Allender today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay tuned.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. We are halfway through our 30-Day Oneness Prayer Challenge. We\u2019ve had lots of couples joining us\u2014praying for their marriage each day. I know some of you have missed a day or two\u2014that\u2019s okay. You probably prayed together more in the last two weeks than, maybe, at any other point in your marriage\u2014and that\u2019s a good thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, today is Day 16 of the 30-day prayer challenge. Our focus is on being grateful for your spouse and grateful for the blessing of marriage. There\u2019s an opportunity for one of you to pray\u2014thanking God for your spouse and for your marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and for the other one to pray, asking God to cultivate in you the habit of expressing appreciation to one another regularly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you did not sign up, back at the beginning of the month, for the 30-Day Oneness Prayer Challenge, you can join in with us. Just go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d and look for the icon for the 30-Day Oneness Prayer Challenge. Log on and join in and be part of the next couple of weeks as we pray together, as husbands and wives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we\u2019re going to talk today about something\u2014actually, I think it had to be two decades ago, Dennis\u2014that I first heard you share a quote from your mentor on the subject of sex. You know the quote I\u2019m thinking of?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I do. Dr. Howard Hendricks said, \u201cWe should not be ashamed to discuss\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cthat which God was not ashamed to create.\u201d\u00a0 Of course, he was talking about sex. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a guest, here on the broadcast today, who\u2014he subscribes to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He\u2019s not ashamed to discuss\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He\u2019s not ashamed to discuss\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014what God was not ashamed to create. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. Dr. Dan Allender joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> again. Welcome back, Dan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Bob\/Dennis, what a delight to be with you. Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dan is a good friend. He and Becky, for a number of years, served on the speaker team for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways\u2014spoke at <em>I Still Do<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014has been just a great friend. In fact, yesterday, we went fishing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Didn\u2019t catch a whole lot, but we had <em>a lot of very good<\/em> conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We really did. It was supposed to rain, and it didn\u2019t rain. We just kind of had a lazy day, floating down the White River in Northern Arkansas. Folks, if you haven\u2019t been there, stay away because, if you go there, you\u2019ll really like it. [Laughter] It\u2019s a beautiful spot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when you say you didn\u2019t catch a lot\u2014what\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014can I get a specific\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, Dan caught 50 percent more than me. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>And numbers are so unimportant when what you really have is fellowship. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dan caught two, and I caught one. We were fly-fishing all day, and it wasn\u2019t that we didn\u2019t try. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We really did, but it just wasn\u2019t to be\u2014and it was\u2014but it was a lot of fun \/ it was a lot of fun. Dan is probably best-known for his book, <em>The Wounded Heart<\/em>, which has now sold more than a half-million copies. In fact, in about a year, you are getting ready to come out with, not a revised edition, but a rewrite. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Really, it\u2019s <em>Healing the Wounded Heart<\/em>\u2014a 25-year retrospective, asking the question: \u201cWhat have we all learned about the nature of trauma and abuse?\u2014particularly, sexual violation?\u201d\u00a0 So, yes, I hope to join you again in another year. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, you can count on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He\u2019s coauthored a book called <em>God Loves Sex<\/em> with his friend, Tremper Longman\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014who has his PhD from Yale\u2014brings an interesting perspective to this topic. I want to read kind of an essence of this book to our audience. This will kind of whet your appetite for what this book is all about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDan and Tremper say this: \u201cGod loves sex. Sex is meant, by God, to be one of the bridge experiences between earth and heaven.\u201d\u00a0 I want to find out in a minute, Dan, what you really mean by that; but let me continue on. \u201cIt\u2019s no wonder that the enemy of God is relentlessly committed to fouling both the eminent pleasure and transcendent joy. Evil hates sex and is ruthlessly committed to tearing down the bridge between desire and holiness. Real people have real sexual struggles.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMan\u2014is that an understatement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to go back to the statement you made that: \u201cSex was designed, by God, to be a bridge experience between earth and heaven\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, Romans, Chapter 1, verse 21, talks about the fact that the visible makes known the invisible. That is true of His character \/ it\u2019s true of the world of heaven. We are given things on this earth that are meant to be revelatory about what we will, one day, know\u2014whether or not we will have sex in heaven is, to me, a very unimportant question. What we do know is that, whatever sex brings, at its most glorious, is indeed but a small taste of what intimacy, and glory, and pleasure will be like when we are with Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, from that vantage, sex, as a powerful human experience, is a window\/a bridge into what it is that God wants for our bodies, our hearts, our minds with our beloved \/ with our covenant partner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn that relationship, we are meant to know something that really does change us\u2014not just pleasure us\u2014but changes us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember you and I were having dinner a number of years ago, and it was a fine a meal. You pushed back from the table; and you said, \u201cEvery fine meal is a taste of heaven.\u201d\u00a0 It is that sample that we get. I reflected on that, as I was reading Psalm 16, at the end, where it says, \u201cThere are pleasures evermore in the presence of God.\u201d\u00a0 Really, all pleasure on earth is a\u2014not an imitation\u2014but a trickle\/a foreshadowing of the <em>great<\/em> <em>joy<\/em> we will one day know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, in one sense, communion, itself, is meant to be a symbolic entry into the wedding feast of the Lamb. So, right there, we need to say that sex is the beginning of the Bible \/ it\u2019s the end of the Bible. Food is the beginning of the Bible \/ it\u2019s the end of the Bible. It\u2019s what holds our heart from the vantage of heartache but also to hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if we go back to that important sentence you made\u2014\u201cEvil is so committed to the harm of our body and the harm of our heart through the misuse of our bodies,\u201d\u2014we have to say, \u201cOur God loves sex, but we\u2019ve got an enemy that is working voraciously to devour our ability to enjoy our body.\u201d\u00a0 So, it is a war. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dan, you have made, really, a lifetime study out of both the harm done to people through sexual abuse and, then, also, the standard of the Bible that is speaking forth what God intended when He designed sex. Let us into a little bit of what you\u2019ve concluded, as a result of your study of Scripture, in terms of: \u201cWhat did God really have in mind here?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, we know, from the beginning to the end, that what He wants is intimacy and joy\u2014that brings honor and glory to one another\u2014but ultimately to Him. All of life is about worship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of life is about being able to say: \u201cGod, You are so good!\u00a0 I am in awe of You, and I am so grateful for You.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat sense of \u201cWow!\u201d\u2014that is meant to be there between a husband and a wife, looking at one another\u2014whether you are early on in your marriage or whether you are in your 80s\/90s: \u201cWow!\u00a0 I get to be married to you. Yes!\u00a0 Yes, thank you\u2014thank you for the kindness, the pleasure, the sacrifice, the warmth that you have offered. May mine be, as well, a salve and a joy for you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, in that sense, you see, sexually\u2014we are not even talking about genitality. We\u2019re talking about the joy of a husband and a wife \/ awe and gratitude to one another\u2014but ultimately, that is taking the heart of each to one great praise \/ not to one another\u2014but ultimately: \u201cThank You, God, for this man,\u201d \/\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThank You, God, for this woman,\u201d that then leads our hearts to even greater intimacy with God. So, our bodies are meant to bring pleasure, but a pleasure that is full of the delight of the glory of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying that sex is a part of how we worship God when it is performed in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>\u201cWhether you eat, whether you drink, give all things to the glory of God.\u201d\u00a0 So, in one sense, the most basic thing you do every day\u2014eating and drinking\u2014I don\u2019t think we are going to be sexual quite as often as we eat and drink\u2014but that frame of reference is: \u201cAll pleasures are meant to bring delight\u2014and delight \/ ultimately, praise and honor to the One who made us.\u201d\u00a0 If that\u2019s the framework, then, we understand both sides of the coin\u2014why evil works so hard to ruin, and why God <em>loves<\/em> to see redemption in this area. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dennis was clear to frame up sex in the context of marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is not possible to have God-glorifying sex outside of that context; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, the book that we are dealing with is Song of Songs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Sometimes, because the language of Song of Songs may sound like a dating couple or an engaged couple, it, then, gets interpreted as\u2014maybe, this is actually sexuality outside of a covenantal relationship. Let me just say\u2014as clearly as Tremper and I can put it: \u201cNo; sex was meant to occur in an ongoing progress toward consummation of pleasure \/ an orgasm only in the context of a married male \/ female relationship.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, sexuality is the physical epitome of the very nature of what two souls enjoy together in the knowing. That\u2019s where Scripture will often use the word, \u201cknowing,\u201d\u2014\u201cHe knew his wife.\u201d\u00a0 Well, that meant he knew her\u2014not just her name \/ where she came from\u2014but was a euphemism for: \u201cThey were sexually-involved,\u201d\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but it is also the knowing of heart-to-heart, body-to-body, and mind-to-mind over a lifetime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve been married almost 39 years. I feel like after\u2014even the last year\u2014the woman I married\u2014oh, she\u2019s revealed herself to be who I knew she was, but in ways that I\u2019m still surprised at who she is revealing herself to be. If I had 100 years with her, I would not have enough time to be able to even begin to grasp the depth, the goodness, the wildness of who my wife is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, let me just go back\u2014because I\u2019m thinking of the 22-year-old guy, who is saying: \u201cWell, what\u2019s wrong with me knowing three women?\u00a0 I like all three of them a lot. What\u2019s wrong with me having that kind of a knowing \/ sexual experience with them, outside of marriage, on our own?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, first and foremost, because it\u2019s contrary to the Word of God; but second, the Word of God isn\u2019t just reasonable\u2014it\u2019s actually inviting you to a <em>better<\/em> life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Song of Songs does not directly address that; but it does so in the larger canon of Scripture, in terms of being able to say: \u201cOur bodies are meant to be given fully and completely to only one covenant partner.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if you think random sexual acts will bring you joy\u2014look, I\u2019ve worked with people too long to not know\u2014it factures, it creates emptiness, it creates a level of guilt and shame. Eventually, you harden your heart; and you become indifferent to the use of another human being. That is what you want out of your humanity?\u2014to become indifferent, and hollow, angry, and using?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven people who don\u2019t love God\u2014when they are given that option of: \u201cThis is where it\u2019s going to take you,\u201d\u2014in the same metaphorical sense, probably, one use of cocaine or methamphetamine won\u2019t kill you; but it has the potential. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut over time, you will destroy the very glory of who you are and who you are meant to be if you continue to use something that God did not intend for you to suffer in that context. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The desire God has given us to know another person and to be known within the context of marriage demands safety. Your book is actually written from Song of Solomon. In the last chapter, it says, \u201cPut me like a seal on your heart for love is strong.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s picturing there the commitment of a bridegroom to his bride that assures the bride that it\u2019s safe to be real, to be open, and to allow me to know you and for me to allow you to know me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>It\u2019s a stand against death. In one sense, that passage in Song of Songs, Chapter 8, is really saying: \u201cDeath does not have the final word.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what all of us, if we\u2019re honest\u2014my wife and I both had histories of misuse of our bodies, in terms of abuse, but also, promiscuity. We suffered in our marriage as a result of having harm done to us and harm we\u2019ve done to ourselves and others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, to be able to go: \u201cRedemption is <em>so<\/em> <em>good<\/em>. It doesn\u2019t just take it away. It requires you, now, to step into where death wanted to win, where shame wanted to win, where sense of despair wanted to win, and then, to reclaim that because of the gospel. Now, you have the courage to step into your own sexual history\u2014how you came to be a man\/ a woman\u2014what violence has been done against you \/ what violence you\u2019ve done to yourself or someone else.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSee, the gospel isn\u2019t about that being covered over so we can forget it. The gospel is, actually\u2014now, we can enter this terrain, where there is much damage, and begin the process of seeing restoration and rebuilding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there really is hope. What I\u2019m hearing you say is\u2014even though you and Becky came from these backgrounds\u2014where you made errors, and made mistakes, and you brought this into a relationship called marriage, and it caused additional wounds and additional hurt to one another\u2014there really is hope for that person, who is listening right now, who feels trapped in a marriage or who feels like: \u201cYou know, my wife and I \/ or my husband and I are just\u2014we are destined to stay in this downward spiral.\u201d\u00a0 You\u2019re saying the Word of God and the Spirit of God at work in a person\u2019s soul can work the work of redemption. There really is healing possible here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>We have to look through the Resurrection at death and say: \u201cYou don\u2019t get the final word. We know death does not win\u2014nor does any of its siblings\u2014despair, destruction, degradation.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTherefore, we are able to say, \u201cWe will be captured by awe, and gratitude, by delight.\u201d\u00a0 In one sense, to actually say: \u201cThe gospel is sensual,\u201d \u201cThe gospel\u201d\u2014strange word to use here\u2014\u201cit\u2019s erotic.\u201d\u00a0 It brings a sweet taste of the beloved, and our bodies\u2019 reconnection to His love\u2014that allows ourselves and our partner \/ our spouse to no longer be bound by shame. In that sense, the gospel demands you defy the harm of the past. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In your book, you talk\u2014again, from the book, Song of Solomon, which is in the Bible\u2014a lot of folks don\u2019t realize this. Smack dab in the middle of the Bible\u2014I think God has a sense of humor that He included a book that is clearly about sexual love, and commitment, and relationship\u2014right in the middle of the Bible and commits eight chapters to this book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you talk about the dance desire and how that really is the spark of a truly intimate relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dan: <\/strong>Well, desire is simply anticipation of pleasure. That when we\u2019re able to imagine that sense of: \u201cI get to go fishing with Dennis,\u201d\u2014well, that really got me through some significant unpleasantness over the last couple weeks because \u201cI\u2019m going to go\u2026\u201d Desire is where you dream redemption for yourself and for others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when desire is allowed to come alive for what our bodies are most meant to enjoy with our spouse, sexually and otherwise, we\u2019re actually beginning to allow ourselves to dream redemption, in the here and now. Therefore, a man should look at a woman\u2019s body with a kind of: \u201cOh!\u201d\u2014awe, delight, and gratitude\u2014and a woman is to look at a man\u2019s body with a kind of: \u201cWow!\u201d\u00a0 So, when that\u2019s not there, between a husband and wife, we\u2019ve, at least, got to step back and say, \u201cWhat happened?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I think, Dan, the thing that I so enjoy about your writing and just the way you put things is\u2014you meet people in the real world in which they live\u2014where they\u2019re likely struggling in some form or fashion. You speak to them in such a way to say: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 You don\u2019t have to put up with this.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s not that you are going to stop struggling, but that there really is a hope to experience something that is far more satisfying than where you are today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I have to say\u2014after 42 years of marriage, I would hate to go back to the beginning. I mean, Barbara and I\u2014the lessons we\u2019ve learned\u2014and the difficulties, sometimes, with which we learned them\u2014has resulted in just a sweet relationship, that still isn\u2019t perfect, but it is so satisfying \/ so delightful\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that you think back to those early married years, and you go, \u201cI didn\u2019t know what I was doing.\u201d\u00a0 You know, I really didn\u2019t know my wife\u2014I was trying to get to know her\u2014but now, I do. I feel like I\u2019m doing a much better job, after 42 years\u2014and by the way, I better be\u2014of honoring, cherishing, nourishing\u2014all the things a husband is designed, by God, to do for and with his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You stop and think about all of the books, the songs, the movies\u2014everything that is pointing us to what are the abuses of God\u2019s good gift of sex. It\u2019s nice to have a book that, instead of talking about the abuses, is talking about the goodness and focusing in on what\u2019s right with sex. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And it\u2019s going to give you some new categories. It\u2019s going to jar your thinking. Bob, you know this about Dan\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014he likes to kind of shake things up, and kind of cause you to think, and do some scratching on your head and go: \u201cWhat does he mean by that?\u00a0 Let\u2019s talk about that.\u201d I think this would be a great book for a couple to read together. The husband reads and underlines through a chapter. Then, the wife does the same thing. They come together, and they talk about a chapter. I think it\u2019d be a great way to just discuss this, and maybe, scratch your heads together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The book is called <em>God Loves Sex: An Honest Conversation about Sexual Desire and Holiness<\/em>. We\u2019ve got it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d and look for information about the book from Dan Allender and Tremper Longman called <em>God Loves Sex<\/em>. Order it from us, online; or call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY,\u201d and request the book by phone. Again, our toll-free number is 1-800-358-6329. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 Or you can find us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, this subject is a subject that is one of the critical \/ one of the important subjects that all of us face in marriage: \u201cHow can we live according to God\u2019s good design for our marriage in the area of intimacy?\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s obviously not the only issue we face in marriage. We have to figure out things like forgiveness and resolving conflict. \u201cHow do we communicate effectively with one another?\u00a0 How do we demonstrate selfless love for one another in a marriage relationship?\u201d\u00a0 These all are vital components of a strong Christ-centered marriage relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt FamilyLife, our goal is to effectively develop godly marriages and families\u2014marriages and families that we believe can change the world, one home at a time. And we\u2019re grateful for those of you who support this ministry\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you share our conviction that this is an important and worthwhile goal. Thanks for your occasional gifts in support of this ministry\u2014or if you are a Legacy Partner\u2014thank you for your regular financial support of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re able to help with a gift today, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you the FamilyLife 2016 Calendar. This is a calendar designed to continue the practice of prayer together, as a family, throughout the new year. You can find out more about how to receive the 2016 calendar when you make a donation. Go, online, to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d to make an online donation; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make your donation over the phone. Or you can request the calendar when you mail a donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. Our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about how we continue to love one another and how we continue to experience God\u2019s design for marital intimacy when both of us bring scars, and wounds, and baggage into a marriage relationship in this area. We\u2019ll continue our conversation with Dr. Dan Allender tomorrow. Hope you can be here as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303662","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303662"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303662"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303662"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303662"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303662"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303662"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303662"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}