{"id":303571,"date":"2015-07-13T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2015-07-13T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-marriage-in-crisis\/"},"modified":"2015-07-13T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2015-07-13T15:00:00","slug":"a-marriage-in-crisis","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-marriage-in-crisis\/","title":{"rendered":"A Marriage in Crisis"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>After Clint and Penny Bragg&#8217;s ideal courtship and blissfully happy first year, cracks began to form in their marital foundation. Penny began pulling away and an emotional affair with someone else soon followed.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-07-13.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.53M","filesize_raw":"24668494","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2883],"tags":[5742,5741,5743,5740,5744],"podcast_series":[8092],"cwp_profile":[9393],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303571","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-resurrected-marriages","tag-how-to-save-a-marriage","tag-how-to-save-your-marriage","tag-life-after-divorce","tag-relationship-problems","tag-remarriage-after-divorce","podcast_series-love-renewed-clint-and-penny-bragg","cwp_profile-clint-and-penny-bragg","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303571\/a-marriage-in-crisis","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303571\/a-marriage-in-crisis","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"bLkWIQRoI5\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-marriage-in-crisis\/\">A Marriage in Crisis<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-marriage-in-crisis\/embed\/#?secret=bLkWIQRoI5\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Marriage in Crisis&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"bLkWIQRoI5\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-07-13.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-07-13.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u00a0When Clint and Penny Bragg were first married, it looked like the ideal situation\u2014all-American couple actively involved in their church\u2014but Penny said there were cracks in the foundation of their relationship\u2014cracks that nobody knew about that ultimately led them to isolation and divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>You know, Clint and I had a pattern in our relationship of we were never really honest with each other with secrets from our past or with things that had happened to us as children. When you go into a marriage like that, where you have not shared some of those intimate secrets, and difficulties, and struggles, it\u2019s hard to break through and just start that practice up. I just kind of shoved everything in further.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, July 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Clint and Penny Bragg join us today to tell the story of a marriage that went down the path of destruction before experiencing resurrection. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Thanks for joining us. You know, when a couple gets married, the picture that is always taken of them at the altar\u2014that picture can look considerably different six months later \/ three years later.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, it looks different on the spot because they airbrush it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good point! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> All of reality is airbrushed out at the beginning, and then you begin the marriage relationship. It takes place, unfortunately, not on a romantic balcony but on a spiritual battlefield. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to read a verse at the outset of the broadcast today because the couple I\u2019m going to introduce can identify with this\u2014it\u2019s Ephesian, Chapter 6, verse 10: \u201cFinally be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the whole armor of God that you might be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, listen to this verse\u2014we use this at the <em>Weekend To Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Bob, where we say, \u201cYour mate is not your enemy.\u201d Verse 12 says: \u201cFor we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.\u201d In other words, in every marriage that\u2019s listening to this broadcast right now and to those that aren\u2019t listening as well, their marriage is taking place on a spiritual battlefield. There is an unseen battle taking place around and for that marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to introduce a couple\u2014Clint and Penny Bragg, who join us on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Clint\/Penny, welcome to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Thank you very much for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Clint and Penny taught in public school for more than 20 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey have quite a story that ultimately ended in being described as marriage missionaries and founding an organization called Inverse Ministries. Penny, how did you two meet?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>We met on the softball field at our church in 1987. All he had to do was tip his baseball hat my way. He has that deep southern drawl. That first attraction kind of hit me, right there, on the baseball field. Then we got to know each other a little bit through the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, this was a spiritual environment. You were both followers of Christ when you met; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>We were.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So Clint, what attracted you to her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Well, first of all, she was very pleasant. She was outgoing\u2014I could see that she liked people. When I really got attracted to her is when I was teaching a discipleship-training course that lasted six months. She was in the first group that I taught. She did everything that she was supposed to do to be a follower of Christ, and it amazed me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said: \u201cWow she really is in love with the Lord. I have to get to know her after this course is over.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So how long did you date?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>We dated about two years; and then at the end of the two years, we got engaged.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How did he ask you to marry him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>He got down on his knee\u2014took me out for a very special date. He had already asked my father in advance\u2014I didn\u2019t know that then. He took me out on a date. As we were getting out for dinner at this romantic marina, he put in Sam Cooke\u2019s, <em>Darling, You Send Me<\/em>. There\u2019s a line in that that says, \u201cI want to marry you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob could probably sing it. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Singing]At first, I thought it was infatuation\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>That\u2019s it, Bob!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>There you go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Singing]\u2014but now, it\u2019s lasted so long. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Is that the line?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Singing]Now I find myself wanting to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Here it is!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Singing] \u2014to marry you, and take you home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny and Bob: <\/strong>[Singing]Whoa\u2014oh-oh-oh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did you get the line then?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>I did, and then my heart just\u2014is that?\u2014and then he said, \u201cWould you step outside of the truck?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe walked me over to the sidewalk. He got down on one knee, and he proposed to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you didn\u2019t even wait for the dinner!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Did we have the dinner first?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>No, I don\u2019t think we had the dinner first\u2014it was before we went to dinner. I hoped we were going to enjoy that dinner. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>That was kind of a risky move. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes, it was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What you guys have just described\u2014from meeting one another in a church environment, what is attractive about her for you is her love for the Lord \/ her hunger for God, two years to get to know one another\u2014if I had to look at that and say: \u201cWhat are the odds that this couple is going to have the kind of marriage that you\u2019d hope for \/ that you\u2019d dream of, you guys would be at the top of the odds list. You know what I mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>We were\u2014we were absolutely!\u00a0 I think our church saw us that way as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes, and we were the church darlings. You know, we couldn\u2019t do any wrong in front of their eyes; and we didn\u2019t want to let them down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Yes, and people would come to Clint and Penny and ask them\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you know, the bottom line of it was\u2014we didn\u2019t spend a lot of time putting the spiritual roots down, but we were leaders and strong people. It was a small church and they needed a lot of help. Boy! We jumped, and jumped, and jumped.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that\u2019s where I was going with my next question: \u201cHow much of that was appearance and how much of the appearance was reality?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s the thing\u2014when I was in the service, one of the things\u2014when they are breaking you down and building you back up\u2014they always have this phrase: \u201cWe want you standing tall and looking good.\u201d So, when I was courting Penny, I definitely wanted to be \u201cstanding tall and looking good\u201d to her so I was showing her all the <em>positive<\/em> things. I really never discussed any of the flaws that Clint Bragg had.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It truly was the airbrushed photo that you started your marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m guessing you were putting your best foot forward too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> Absolutely. I was doing all my homework in that discipleship class because you know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> She was!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But let\u2019s keep in mind that\u2019s true too for just about every dating couple. We\u2019re all trying, in those years when we\u2019re attracted to one another\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, but that\u2019s not necessarily true, Bob. There are some couples who start their relationship out and they get involved, sexually, \u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and they don\u2019t honor one another and the boundaries that perhaps have been asked of one another. I wanted to ask you guys: \u201cWere you honoring one another in that regard, privately, as well?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> We crossed it\u2014we definitely crossed it. We didn\u2019t go to intercourse, or live together, or something like that\u2014but we definitely crossed the physical boundaries further than we should have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I just happen to believe today, among the Christian single culture that\u2019s in churches today\u2014there are a lot of these relationships that may look like yours but, privately, you have to take a step back. Perhaps they need some folks stepping into the relationship and maybe doing a little mentoring and asking of some hard questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> Absolutely; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> Accountability.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The first year of marriage was a great year; wasn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Awesome!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes. In fact, it was a fairytale come true. I couldn\u2019t believe how Penny and I just got along so well together. She could think something, and I knew what it was going to be\u2014and the same way\u2014I could think something, and she would do it. It was unbelievable\u2014it was just like it was all falling into place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were in ministry, but we weren\u2019t working together in ministry\u2014we were in separate ministries. I was doing discipleship, and I was also teaching Sunday school. She was on the worship team. So, we were doing all these things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>But parallel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes, parallel. Anyway, we thought we were doing good; but we were starting to run out of energy. At the end of our first year, I suggested to Penny: \u201cHey, let\u2019s do something really special to really finish off our first year.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now, wait\u2014before you go there, you said you were running out of energy. What do you mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Well, because we weren\u2019t really working together\u2014we were working, side by side, but she was doing her thing and I was doing my thing. We had our individual jobs and stuff. We started growing apart from each other, not realizing that we were. We were in love with each other \/ we cared about each other\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but what happens is\u2014if you\u2019re not doing things together, as a couple, what happens is\u2014you start doing things on your own strength. That\u2019s what we were doing\u2014we were running so fast. At the beginning, we were asking God: \u201cWill you come with us? Will you do this?\u201d Then, we got so far behind in everything, we quit asking God\u2014we said, \u201cWe just have to start running now because we have to catch up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Just a lot of performance then.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Very much. That\u2019s where the accolades came from, I think, for both of us\u2014we can look back clearly and see that now. You know, people were saying, \u201cOh, you guys do such a great job at church.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWow! That felt really great to hear that,\u201d\u2014so\u2014\u201cLet\u2019s do some more.\u201d The mission trip, at the end of our first year, was just like a topper on our performance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So we could read this verse that I read at the beginning\u2014your exhortation that you were hearing in your hearts: \u201cFinally brethren be strong in the church schedule, and in the programs that they offer, and be there every time the doors are opened.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Every time!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, I\u2019m not against the church. Hear me\u2014I\u2019m all for the church. I think the church is an absolute necessity for a marriage to go the distance today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But, if you build your relationship around some kind of church performance or being at all the programs\u2014and you\u2019re not ultimately grounded in Jesus Christ \/ listening to God like you\u2019re talking about\u2014you\u2019re set up, at that point, to take a fall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> \u2014to fail.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you guys headed off on this mission trip. That\u2019s where some of the shallow roots got exposed. What happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Very much so\u2014I was blown away. I think Clint had a very\u2014he had been in Vietnam\u2014he had seen a lot of the world, but I was a little California girl. I hadn\u2019t traveled more than a few hours past my hometown. We get over there\u2014and we had a little training \/ a little prep\u2014but I didn\u2019t know about the spiritual darkness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Where were you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Haiti\u2014we were in Haiti for two weeks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay, and that\u2019s a dark country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Very much so. I was <em>totally<\/em> unprepared for that. Also, it was my first face-to-face with suffering. Without deep spiritual roots, you see the suffering of mankind\u2014it\u2019s easy to think, \u201cLord how could you allow that to happen?\u201d\u00a0 I started to question God. I started to question His sovereignty; however, I never expressed those doubts to Clint.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you didn\u2019t know any of this was happening with her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>No, I didn\u2019t. In fact, it was unbelievable. We were building a school building and a church all at the same time\u2014we built the walls while we there. We ministered in the community. There was even a time when they had Penny and I just pray for the whole team while they were out working and doing different things. When we prayed, God answered our prayers about some rain that wasn\u2019t supposed to be there. It showed up, and cooled it off, and made it a little bit more convenient for the people that were working there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking: \u201cWow! Man! We\u2019re working as a team. God is blessing us, and this is going great.\u201d I was starting to notice, towards the end of the trip, that she was starting to kind of be quiet. She was kind of pulling away from me; but you know, when you\u2019re in the middle of it, you don\u2019t really put a lot of emphasis on it. I just figured: \u201cWell, she\u2019s tired; and we\u2019ve done a lot. She hasn\u2019t seen a lot of this kind of suffering and stuff.\u201d I don\u2019t think either one of us was really prepared for the spiritual darkness that we experienced while we were there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> If I can continue the passage in Ephesians that I started out with here\u2014it goes on saying,\u201d Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day and having done all to stand firm.\u201d We do live in an evil day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> We do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And when you went to Haiti, you ran into someone who was evil.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> We did. We were having our devotion times\u2014even, specifically, almost a manifestation of I think what you\u2019re referring to in the enemy\u2014the one who\u2019s out there for our souls, Satan. We were actually having our devotion times together. There was a woman who came from out of nowhere; and she began to rant, and rave, and carry on around us. It was a very awkward and scary situation. I didn\u2019t know what to do\u2014I\u2019d never seen anything like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Was it just you two or was it the whole group?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> The whole team was there. She specifically went toward Clint.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> She targeted me. In fact, I was in the middle of reading the Word. She appeared out of nowhere, and she crawled up in my lap. I mean, it just literally was there; and I was startled. Penny was\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> You have to understand something about Penny back then\u2014she\u2019s a pretty tough girl \/ a super-girl. So, I wasn\u2019t going to let anyone get close to my husband. I went, \u201cThat\u2019s it!\u201d I went <em>Mafioso<\/em>, as we say in Italian. [Laughter] I went after the lady\u2014I did\u2014I pulled her off him. Like Clint would really need <em>me<\/em> to protect him, Mr. Army Soldier; but I did\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> The thing about it is\u2014it startled me so bad. When she did pull\u2014and there was a confrontation between the two\u2014and they speak Creole there\u2014so I couldn\u2019t understand, but you could definitely tell that it was some kind of a curse or something that that lady was just laying on Penny. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that began a time of spiritual darkness?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> When did that become something you discerned was taking place?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> Probably when we got back to the United States. It was maybe a couple months after that that I realized that Penny was pulling away from me. Then I realized there was something supernatural that was pulling her away from me. I couldn\u2019t put my finger on it really until probably a good year after we had split up that I realized, back there in Haiti, was when it all started. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Penny, were you aware that you were pulling away?\u00a0 I mean, was there a conscious sense of: \u201cI don\u2019t want to be about this marriage anymore\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>No; no, I can\u2019t say that there was. I think it was a gradual desensitization of my heart, little by little. I couldn\u2019t find the answers I was looking for in terms of what I had seen over in Haiti, and I just didn\u2019t know what to do with all that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tClint and I had a pattern in our relationship of we were never really honest with each other with secrets from our past or with things that had happened to us as children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you go into a marriage like that, where you have not shared some of those intimate secrets, and difficulties, and struggles, it\u2019s hard to break through and just start that practice up. I just kind of shoved everything in further. Yes, I wasn\u2019t really consciously aware of everything that was taking place. I just knew that we weren\u2019t getting along as well anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Was your relationship with the Lord starting to drift as well?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Oh definitely\u2014definitely. I was reading my Bible less and less. I was questioning more and more. Yes, for sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you were still going to church. Everybody\u2014from the outside, everything looked okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Oh, yes, absolutely\u2014smile on the face.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes, we both were pretty good about\u2014we never showed our inside. We always showed our outside. We made sure that our outside always looked good to everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, what you\u2019re describing is like foundation problems in a house\u2014where you may see some symptoms that cause you to think, \u201cThis door doesn\u2019t shut right,\u201d and you\u2019re not sure why\u2014but something\u2019s starting to happen in the foundation that\u2019s causing things to settle wrong. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what was going on. When did you realize this wasn\u2019t just a shift, but there was a crack there, and there were some real foundation problems?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Well, for me, I think it was when I realized that she was pulling away from me further and further; and I couldn\u2019t understand it. What happened was\u2014I eventually realized there must be somebody from outside our marriage that is pulling her apart. I went to Penny, and I asked her; and she denied it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI loved her enough that I had to give her the benefit of the doubt. So, I\u2019m trying to figure out, \u201cWhat is going on?\u201d but yet I knew there was some major damage there. I was trying to figure out how to correct it and do it right. I was going to the Bible, and I was trying to do all these different things that you\u2019re supposed to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Trying to fix it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>I was trying to fix it, yes. I\u2019m a guy and my whole life I\u2019ve always been able to fix things that were broken.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Penny, at the same time, you were teaching school. You developed a relationship\u2014there at school\u2014that was inappropriate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>I did\u2014I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How did it start out?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>It just started out as being friends. It started out as doing homework together, working on projects together, getting assigned to the same school together. The key\u2014when I look back on it now\u2014is emotional intimacy that started to develop that was absent or void in my marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you go into a marriage, you don\u2019t often realize that creating and nurturing spiritual and emotional intimacy is something you\u2019re really going to have to work on. I was sensing it with this other person. With the absence of it with Clint, I just found my time, my priorities\u2014everything\u2014I started to shove over into feeling better \/ feeling good about something since I wasn\u2019t feeling that way about home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, every affair begins in the emotional arena\u2014it really does. Some kind of intimacy gets expressed. Do you recall the first interaction of transparency that you had where you felt like, at that point, you knew you were entering into something deeper with another human being?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>I think when that person started to disclose feelings that I was uncomfortable with. That person started to express feelings for me that I thought: \u201cWhoa! Wait a second! Something\u2019s going on, at that end, that\u2019s not what I meant to do or what I was indicating.\u201d So, first, the advances made toward me made me think: \u201cSomething\u2019s going on here, and I\u2019m uncomfortable with it; but, if Clint finds out, he\u2019s really going to have a fit and that friendship\u2019s going to be over. So, I better just hide it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you were at what I would call a Joseph moment; okay?\u2014where the advances are being made. Rather than running from it, you just figured, \u201cI\u2019ll manage this myself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: \u201c<\/strong>I\u2019m going to fix it. I can do this myself, Lord, because you know, if I tell Clint, then it\u2019s just going to create a whole lot of problems and worry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll probably have to leave my school, and then I\u2019m going to lose this friendship,\u201d\u2014which was one of the few things I was feeling real good about\u2014that and school. Those two were tied together for me. Feeling good about them made me think, \u201cWell, I\u2019m going to have to lose out one or the other so I can handle this,\u201d was my feeling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You had no idea any of this was happening?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Not really\u2014I was clueless. I really was!\u00a0 I was trying to figure out, \u201cWhat was going on?\u201d but she just kept saying, \u201cI\u2019m working hard.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>I made it hard for him. I was flat-out denying his accusations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes. I was careful about making those accusations because I didn\u2019t want it to be and I didn\u2019t want to blow something up that was not really there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dennis, you talked about every affair beginning in the emotional arena. I\u2019ve heard you say, many times: \u201cWe have to have our guard up in relationships outside of marriage when there\u2019s anything. When you sniff smoke, you better run\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right, and it isn\u2019t wrong to be tempted. James, Chapter 1, makes it very clear \u201cTemptation is not sin.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s when we take the bait, and we don\u2019t respond in faith to the flaming missiles of the evil one who is tempting us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn Penny\u2019s case, she faced a real crisis of faith, at that point: Would she remain faithful to her husband or would she begin to cultivate a relationship that, even in her heart, she knew was headed in the wrong direction?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there are listeners, right now, who are being tempted. You know who you are \/ you know who the person is\u2014you know the relationship hasn\u2019t felt right, perhaps, for some time \/ maybe you\u2019ve already even stepped over the line\u2014those relationships <em>must be terminated<\/em>. There is no way you can give your heart to two people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re going to be and have allegiance to one; and you\u2019re not going to be able to experience what God designed for your life, and in your marriage, and in your family if you give your heart to another person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy encouragement to you, just based upon Clint and Penny\u2019s story here today is: \u201cNo sin is worth it. I\u2019m telling you that you are headed for a very destructive path. You have no idea the coals that you are about to invite into your life \/ into your heart, and you\u2019ll get burned.\u201d\u00a0 The key is: \u201cBefore the day is over, settle the issue with God, and then settle the issue with the other person, and break that relationship off.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think when folks get a chance to hear your story, and when they get a copy of your book and read your story, they can see how a failure to follow that kind of counsel leads you down the wrong path. Clint and Penny have told their story in a book called <em>Marriage on the Mend<\/em>\u2014that has been recently revised and updated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2018d like a copy, you can go to our website, which is FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the screen to get more information about how you can get the book, <em>Marriage on the Mend,<\/em> by Clint and Penny Bragg. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also request the book when you call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I\u2019m often asked by listeners if I have a favorite <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> program. Dennis, you and I, will often give the same answer\u2014it\u2019s stories like the story we\u2019re hearing, this week, from Clint and Penny that are among our favorites. We love hearing stories of God\u2019s work in the middle of broken situations to bring healing and restoration. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe love when we get a chance to see beauty from ashes because it reminds us that, no matter what\u2019s going on in anybody\u2019s marriage \/ in anybody\u2019s family, God can and does show up. When we cooperate with the Holy Spirit, there can be a real turnaround in our marital situation \/ our family situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere, at FamilyLife, we want to provide the kind of practical biblical help that brings about the kind of transformation that Clint and Penny are sharing with us about this week. We appreciate those of you who stand with us in this mission\u2014to effectively develop Godly families who change the world, one home at a time. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported. It is folks, like you, who help with the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. We couldn\u2019t do it without you\u2014we are grateful for your partnership. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to make a donation in support of the ministry, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cI CARE,\u201d\u2014make an online donation. Or call: 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014and you can make your donation over the phone. You can also mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to get a chance to hear about the transforming work that God did in Clint and Penny Bragg\u2019s marriage. It\u2019s a pretty remarkable story. Hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. 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Clint and Penny Bragg's ideal courtship and blissfully happy first year, cracks began to form in their marital foundation. Penny began pulling away and an emotional affair with someone else soon followed.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-07-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u00a0When Clint and Penny Bragg were first married, it looked like the ideal situation\u2014all-American couple actively involved in their church\u2014but Penny said there were cracks in the foundation of their relationship\u2014cracks that nobody knew about that ultimately led them to isolation and divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>You know, Clint and I had a pattern in our relationship of we were never really honest with each other with secrets from our past or with things that had happened to us as children. When you go into a marriage like that, where you have not shared some of those intimate secrets, and difficulties, and struggles, it\u2019s hard to break through and just start that practice up. I just kind of shoved everything in further.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, July 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Clint and Penny Bragg join us today to tell the story of a marriage that went down the path of destruction before experiencing resurrection. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Thanks for joining us. You know, when a couple gets married, the picture that is always taken of them at the altar\u2014that picture can look considerably different six months later \/ three years later.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, it looks different on the spot because they airbrush it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good point! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> All of reality is airbrushed out at the beginning, and then you begin the marriage relationship. It takes place, unfortunately, not on a romantic balcony but on a spiritual battlefield. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to read a verse at the outset of the broadcast today because the couple I\u2019m going to introduce can identify with this\u2014it\u2019s Ephesian, Chapter 6, verse 10: \u201cFinally be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the whole armor of God that you might be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, listen to this verse\u2014we use this at the <em>Weekend To Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Bob, where we say, \u201cYour mate is not your enemy.\u201d Verse 12 says: \u201cFor we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.\u201d In other words, in every marriage that\u2019s listening to this broadcast right now and to those that aren\u2019t listening as well, their marriage is taking place on a spiritual battlefield. There is an unseen battle taking place around and for that marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to introduce a couple\u2014Clint and Penny Bragg, who join us on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Clint\/Penny, welcome to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Thank you very much for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Clint and Penny taught in public school for more than 20 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey have quite a story that ultimately ended in being described as marriage missionaries and founding an organization called Inverse Ministries. Penny, how did you two meet?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>We met on the softball field at our church in 1987. All he had to do was tip his baseball hat my way. He has that deep southern drawl. That first attraction kind of hit me, right there, on the baseball field. Then we got to know each other a little bit through the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, this was a spiritual environment. You were both followers of Christ when you met; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>We were.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So Clint, what attracted you to her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Well, first of all, she was very pleasant. She was outgoing\u2014I could see that she liked people. When I really got attracted to her is when I was teaching a discipleship-training course that lasted six months. She was in the first group that I taught. She did everything that she was supposed to do to be a follower of Christ, and it amazed me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said: \u201cWow she really is in love with the Lord. I have to get to know her after this course is over.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So how long did you date?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>We dated about two years; and then at the end of the two years, we got engaged.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How did he ask you to marry him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>He got down on his knee\u2014took me out for a very special date. He had already asked my father in advance\u2014I didn\u2019t know that then. He took me out on a date. As we were getting out for dinner at this romantic marina, he put in Sam Cooke\u2019s, <em>Darling, You Send Me<\/em>. There\u2019s a line in that that says, \u201cI want to marry you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob could probably sing it. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Singing]At first, I thought it was infatuation\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>That\u2019s it, Bob!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>There you go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Singing]\u2014but now, it\u2019s lasted so long. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Is that the line?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Singing]Now I find myself wanting to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Here it is!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Singing] \u2014to marry you, and take you home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny and Bob: <\/strong>[Singing]Whoa\u2014oh-oh-oh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did you get the line then?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>I did, and then my heart just\u2014is that?\u2014and then he said, \u201cWould you step outside of the truck?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe walked me over to the sidewalk. He got down on one knee, and he proposed to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you didn\u2019t even wait for the dinner!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Did we have the dinner first?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>No, I don\u2019t think we had the dinner first\u2014it was before we went to dinner. I hoped we were going to enjoy that dinner. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>That was kind of a risky move. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes, it was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What you guys have just described\u2014from meeting one another in a church environment, what is attractive about her for you is her love for the Lord \/ her hunger for God, two years to get to know one another\u2014if I had to look at that and say: \u201cWhat are the odds that this couple is going to have the kind of marriage that you\u2019d hope for \/ that you\u2019d dream of, you guys would be at the top of the odds list. You know what I mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>We were\u2014we were absolutely!\u00a0 I think our church saw us that way as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes, and we were the church darlings. You know, we couldn\u2019t do any wrong in front of their eyes; and we didn\u2019t want to let them down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Yes, and people would come to Clint and Penny and ask them\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you know, the bottom line of it was\u2014we didn\u2019t spend a lot of time putting the spiritual roots down, but we were leaders and strong people. It was a small church and they needed a lot of help. Boy! We jumped, and jumped, and jumped.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that\u2019s where I was going with my next question: \u201cHow much of that was appearance and how much of the appearance was reality?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s the thing\u2014when I was in the service, one of the things\u2014when they are breaking you down and building you back up\u2014they always have this phrase: \u201cWe want you standing tall and looking good.\u201d So, when I was courting Penny, I definitely wanted to be \u201cstanding tall and looking good\u201d to her so I was showing her all the <em>positive<\/em> things. I really never discussed any of the flaws that Clint Bragg had.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It truly was the airbrushed photo that you started your marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m guessing you were putting your best foot forward too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> Absolutely. I was doing all my homework in that discipleship class because you know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> She was!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But let\u2019s keep in mind that\u2019s true too for just about every dating couple. We\u2019re all trying, in those years when we\u2019re attracted to one another\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, but that\u2019s not necessarily true, Bob. There are some couples who start their relationship out and they get involved, sexually, \u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and they don\u2019t honor one another and the boundaries that perhaps have been asked of one another. I wanted to ask you guys: \u201cWere you honoring one another in that regard, privately, as well?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> We crossed it\u2014we definitely crossed it. We didn\u2019t go to intercourse, or live together, or something like that\u2014but we definitely crossed the physical boundaries further than we should have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I just happen to believe today, among the Christian single culture that\u2019s in churches today\u2014there are a lot of these relationships that may look like yours but, privately, you have to take a step back. Perhaps they need some folks stepping into the relationship and maybe doing a little mentoring and asking of some hard questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> Absolutely; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> Accountability.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The first year of marriage was a great year; wasn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Awesome!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes. In fact, it was a fairytale come true. I couldn\u2019t believe how Penny and I just got along so well together. She could think something, and I knew what it was going to be\u2014and the same way\u2014I could think something, and she would do it. It was unbelievable\u2014it was just like it was all falling into place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were in ministry, but we weren\u2019t working together in ministry\u2014we were in separate ministries. I was doing discipleship, and I was also teaching Sunday school. She was on the worship team. So, we were doing all these things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>But parallel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes, parallel. Anyway, we thought we were doing good; but we were starting to run out of energy. At the end of our first year, I suggested to Penny: \u201cHey, let\u2019s do something really special to really finish off our first year.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now, wait\u2014before you go there, you said you were running out of energy. What do you mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Well, because we weren\u2019t really working together\u2014we were working, side by side, but she was doing her thing and I was doing my thing. We had our individual jobs and stuff. We started growing apart from each other, not realizing that we were. We were in love with each other \/ we cared about each other\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but what happens is\u2014if you\u2019re not doing things together, as a couple, what happens is\u2014you start doing things on your own strength. That\u2019s what we were doing\u2014we were running so fast. At the beginning, we were asking God: \u201cWill you come with us? Will you do this?\u201d Then, we got so far behind in everything, we quit asking God\u2014we said, \u201cWe just have to start running now because we have to catch up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Just a lot of performance then.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Very much. That\u2019s where the accolades came from, I think, for both of us\u2014we can look back clearly and see that now. You know, people were saying, \u201cOh, you guys do such a great job at church.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWow! That felt really great to hear that,\u201d\u2014so\u2014\u201cLet\u2019s do some more.\u201d The mission trip, at the end of our first year, was just like a topper on our performance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So we could read this verse that I read at the beginning\u2014your exhortation that you were hearing in your hearts: \u201cFinally brethren be strong in the church schedule, and in the programs that they offer, and be there every time the doors are opened.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Every time!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, I\u2019m not against the church. Hear me\u2014I\u2019m all for the church. I think the church is an absolute necessity for a marriage to go the distance today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But, if you build your relationship around some kind of church performance or being at all the programs\u2014and you\u2019re not ultimately grounded in Jesus Christ \/ listening to God like you\u2019re talking about\u2014you\u2019re set up, at that point, to take a fall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> \u2014to fail.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you guys headed off on this mission trip. That\u2019s where some of the shallow roots got exposed. What happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Very much so\u2014I was blown away. I think Clint had a very\u2014he had been in Vietnam\u2014he had seen a lot of the world, but I was a little California girl. I hadn\u2019t traveled more than a few hours past my hometown. We get over there\u2014and we had a little training \/ a little prep\u2014but I didn\u2019t know about the spiritual darkness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Where were you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Haiti\u2014we were in Haiti for two weeks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay, and that\u2019s a dark country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Very much so. I was <em>totally<\/em> unprepared for that. Also, it was my first face-to-face with suffering. Without deep spiritual roots, you see the suffering of mankind\u2014it\u2019s easy to think, \u201cLord how could you allow that to happen?\u201d\u00a0 I started to question God. I started to question His sovereignty; however, I never expressed those doubts to Clint.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you didn\u2019t know any of this was happening with her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>No, I didn\u2019t. In fact, it was unbelievable. We were building a school building and a church all at the same time\u2014we built the walls while we there. We ministered in the community. There was even a time when they had Penny and I just pray for the whole team while they were out working and doing different things. When we prayed, God answered our prayers about some rain that wasn\u2019t supposed to be there. It showed up, and cooled it off, and made it a little bit more convenient for the people that were working there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking: \u201cWow! Man! We\u2019re working as a team. God is blessing us, and this is going great.\u201d I was starting to notice, towards the end of the trip, that she was starting to kind of be quiet. She was kind of pulling away from me; but you know, when you\u2019re in the middle of it, you don\u2019t really put a lot of emphasis on it. I just figured: \u201cWell, she\u2019s tired; and we\u2019ve done a lot. She hasn\u2019t seen a lot of this kind of suffering and stuff.\u201d I don\u2019t think either one of us was really prepared for the spiritual darkness that we experienced while we were there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> If I can continue the passage in Ephesians that I started out with here\u2014it goes on saying,\u201d Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day and having done all to stand firm.\u201d We do live in an evil day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> We do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And when you went to Haiti, you ran into someone who was evil.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> We did. We were having our devotion times\u2014even, specifically, almost a manifestation of I think what you\u2019re referring to in the enemy\u2014the one who\u2019s out there for our souls, Satan. We were actually having our devotion times together. There was a woman who came from out of nowhere; and she began to rant, and rave, and carry on around us. It was a very awkward and scary situation. I didn\u2019t know what to do\u2014I\u2019d never seen anything like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Was it just you two or was it the whole group?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> The whole team was there. She specifically went toward Clint.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> She targeted me. In fact, I was in the middle of reading the Word. She appeared out of nowhere, and she crawled up in my lap. I mean, it just literally was there; and I was startled. Penny was\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny:<\/strong> You have to understand something about Penny back then\u2014she\u2019s a pretty tough girl \/ a super-girl. So, I wasn\u2019t going to let anyone get close to my husband. I went, \u201cThat\u2019s it!\u201d I went <em>Mafioso<\/em>, as we say in Italian. [Laughter] I went after the lady\u2014I did\u2014I pulled her off him. Like Clint would really need <em>me<\/em> to protect him, Mr. Army Soldier; but I did\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> The thing about it is\u2014it startled me so bad. When she did pull\u2014and there was a confrontation between the two\u2014and they speak Creole there\u2014so I couldn\u2019t understand, but you could definitely tell that it was some kind of a curse or something that that lady was just laying on Penny. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that began a time of spiritual darkness?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> When did that become something you discerned was taking place?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint:<\/strong> Probably when we got back to the United States. It was maybe a couple months after that that I realized that Penny was pulling away from me. Then I realized there was something supernatural that was pulling her away from me. I couldn\u2019t put my finger on it really until probably a good year after we had split up that I realized, back there in Haiti, was when it all started. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Penny, were you aware that you were pulling away?\u00a0 I mean, was there a conscious sense of: \u201cI don\u2019t want to be about this marriage anymore\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>No; no, I can\u2019t say that there was. I think it was a gradual desensitization of my heart, little by little. I couldn\u2019t find the answers I was looking for in terms of what I had seen over in Haiti, and I just didn\u2019t know what to do with all that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tClint and I had a pattern in our relationship of we were never really honest with each other with secrets from our past or with things that had happened to us as children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you go into a marriage like that, where you have not shared some of those intimate secrets, and difficulties, and struggles, it\u2019s hard to break through and just start that practice up. I just kind of shoved everything in further. Yes, I wasn\u2019t really consciously aware of everything that was taking place. I just knew that we weren\u2019t getting along as well anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Was your relationship with the Lord starting to drift as well?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Oh definitely\u2014definitely. I was reading my Bible less and less. I was questioning more and more. Yes, for sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you were still going to church. Everybody\u2014from the outside, everything looked okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>Oh, yes, absolutely\u2014smile on the face.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes, we both were pretty good about\u2014we never showed our inside. We always showed our outside. We made sure that our outside always looked good to everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, what you\u2019re describing is like foundation problems in a house\u2014where you may see some symptoms that cause you to think, \u201cThis door doesn\u2019t shut right,\u201d and you\u2019re not sure why\u2014but something\u2019s starting to happen in the foundation that\u2019s causing things to settle wrong. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what was going on. When did you realize this wasn\u2019t just a shift, but there was a crack there, and there were some real foundation problems?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Well, for me, I think it was when I realized that she was pulling away from me further and further; and I couldn\u2019t understand it. What happened was\u2014I eventually realized there must be somebody from outside our marriage that is pulling her apart. I went to Penny, and I asked her; and she denied it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI loved her enough that I had to give her the benefit of the doubt. So, I\u2019m trying to figure out, \u201cWhat is going on?\u201d but yet I knew there was some major damage there. I was trying to figure out how to correct it and do it right. I was going to the Bible, and I was trying to do all these different things that you\u2019re supposed to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Trying to fix it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>I was trying to fix it, yes. I\u2019m a guy and my whole life I\u2019ve always been able to fix things that were broken.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Penny, at the same time, you were teaching school. You developed a relationship\u2014there at school\u2014that was inappropriate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>I did\u2014I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How did it start out?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>It just started out as being friends. It started out as doing homework together, working on projects together, getting assigned to the same school together. The key\u2014when I look back on it now\u2014is emotional intimacy that started to develop that was absent or void in my marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you go into a marriage, you don\u2019t often realize that creating and nurturing spiritual and emotional intimacy is something you\u2019re really going to have to work on. I was sensing it with this other person. With the absence of it with Clint, I just found my time, my priorities\u2014everything\u2014I started to shove over into feeling better \/ feeling good about something since I wasn\u2019t feeling that way about home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, every affair begins in the emotional arena\u2014it really does. Some kind of intimacy gets expressed. Do you recall the first interaction of transparency that you had where you felt like, at that point, you knew you were entering into something deeper with another human being?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>I think when that person started to disclose feelings that I was uncomfortable with. That person started to express feelings for me that I thought: \u201cWhoa! Wait a second! Something\u2019s going on, at that end, that\u2019s not what I meant to do or what I was indicating.\u201d So, first, the advances made toward me made me think: \u201cSomething\u2019s going on here, and I\u2019m uncomfortable with it; but, if Clint finds out, he\u2019s really going to have a fit and that friendship\u2019s going to be over. So, I better just hide it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you were at what I would call a Joseph moment; okay?\u2014where the advances are being made. Rather than running from it, you just figured, \u201cI\u2019ll manage this myself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: \u201c<\/strong>I\u2019m going to fix it. I can do this myself, Lord, because you know, if I tell Clint, then it\u2019s just going to create a whole lot of problems and worry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll probably have to leave my school, and then I\u2019m going to lose this friendship,\u201d\u2014which was one of the few things I was feeling real good about\u2014that and school. Those two were tied together for me. Feeling good about them made me think, \u201cWell, I\u2019m going to have to lose out one or the other so I can handle this,\u201d was my feeling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You had no idea any of this was happening?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Not really\u2014I was clueless. I really was!\u00a0 I was trying to figure out, \u201cWhat was going on?\u201d but she just kept saying, \u201cI\u2019m working hard.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Penny: <\/strong>I made it hard for him. I was flat-out denying his accusations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clint: <\/strong>Yes. I was careful about making those accusations because I didn\u2019t want it to be and I didn\u2019t want to blow something up that was not really there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dennis, you talked about every affair beginning in the emotional arena. I\u2019ve heard you say, many times: \u201cWe have to have our guard up in relationships outside of marriage when there\u2019s anything. When you sniff smoke, you better run\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right, and it isn\u2019t wrong to be tempted. James, Chapter 1, makes it very clear \u201cTemptation is not sin.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s when we take the bait, and we don\u2019t respond in faith to the flaming missiles of the evil one who is tempting us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn Penny\u2019s case, she faced a real crisis of faith, at that point: Would she remain faithful to her husband or would she begin to cultivate a relationship that, even in her heart, she knew was headed in the wrong direction?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there are listeners, right now, who are being tempted. You know who you are \/ you know who the person is\u2014you know the relationship hasn\u2019t felt right, perhaps, for some time \/ maybe you\u2019ve already even stepped over the line\u2014those relationships <em>must be terminated<\/em>. There is no way you can give your heart to two people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re going to be and have allegiance to one; and you\u2019re not going to be able to experience what God designed for your life, and in your marriage, and in your family if you give your heart to another person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy encouragement to you, just based upon Clint and Penny\u2019s story here today is: \u201cNo sin is worth it. I\u2019m telling you that you are headed for a very destructive path. You have no idea the coals that you are about to invite into your life \/ into your heart, and you\u2019ll get burned.\u201d\u00a0 The key is: \u201cBefore the day is over, settle the issue with God, and then settle the issue with the other person, and break that relationship off.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think when folks get a chance to hear your story, and when they get a copy of your book and read your story, they can see how a failure to follow that kind of counsel leads you down the wrong path. Clint and Penny have told their story in a book called <em>Marriage on the Mend<\/em>\u2014that has been recently revised and updated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2018d like a copy, you can go to our website, which is FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the screen to get more information about how you can get the book, <em>Marriage on the Mend,<\/em> by Clint and Penny Bragg. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also request the book when you call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I\u2019m often asked by listeners if I have a favorite <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> program. Dennis, you and I, will often give the same answer\u2014it\u2019s stories like the story we\u2019re hearing, this week, from Clint and Penny that are among our favorites. We love hearing stories of God\u2019s work in the middle of broken situations to bring healing and restoration. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe love when we get a chance to see beauty from ashes because it reminds us that, no matter what\u2019s going on in anybody\u2019s marriage \/ in anybody\u2019s family, God can and does show up. When we cooperate with the Holy Spirit, there can be a real turnaround in our marital situation \/ our family situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere, at FamilyLife, we want to provide the kind of practical biblical help that brings about the kind of transformation that Clint and Penny are sharing with us about this week. We appreciate those of you who stand with us in this mission\u2014to effectively develop Godly families who change the world, one home at a time. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported. It is folks, like you, who help with the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. We couldn\u2019t do it without you\u2014we are grateful for your partnership. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to make a donation in support of the ministry, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cI CARE,\u201d\u2014make an online donation. Or call: 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014and you can make your donation over the phone. You can also mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to get a chance to hear about the transforming work that God did in Clint and Penny Bragg\u2019s marriage. It\u2019s a pretty remarkable story. Hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303571","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303571"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303571"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303571"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303571"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303571"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303571"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303571"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}