{"id":303397,"date":"2015-02-26T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2015-02-26T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/god-loves-diversity\/"},"modified":"2015-02-26T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2015-02-26T17:00:00","slug":"god-loves-diversity","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/god-loves-diversity\/","title":{"rendered":"God Loves Diversity"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>God is no respecter of persons, and neither should we be. Author Trillia Newbell talks about growing up as an African American in a white community and being the target of racism.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-26.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.76M","filesize_raw":"23861758","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848],"tags":[5613],"podcast_series":[8066],"cwp_profile":[3473],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303397","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","tag-racism-in-the-church","podcast_series-united","cwp_profile-trillia-newbell","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303397\/god-loves-diversity","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303397\/god-loves-diversity","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"q5YQvRDuKx\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/god-loves-diversity\/\">God Loves Diversity<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/god-loves-diversity\/embed\/#?secret=q5YQvRDuKx\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;God Loves Diversity&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"q5YQvRDuKx\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-26.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-26.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a young, single black woman, attending a mostly white church in the South, Trillia Newbell remembers thinking to herself, \u201cIs this really where I belong?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>There were times when I would feel out of place. And then, before my husband became my husband, I was concerned\u2014\u201cOkay, is there going to be someone in this church?\u201d\u2014I just was curious\u2014\u201cCould there be someone that I could marry?\u00a0 Would they accept me?\u00a0 Would their family accept me?\u201d\u00a0 I had a lot of things to really be thinking about and praying about. There were times when I did feel out of place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, February 26<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. The Bible says that in Christ we are all one. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female\u2014we are all one. So, what should that unity look like in a local church? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to explore that today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. You know, we are going to be tackling a subject today that, honestly, has become an emotionally-charged subject in our culture over the last several months. And here, you and I are two guys who grew up in the Midwest\u2014two white guys\u2014going to be talking with our guest, Trillia Newbell, about racial tension, and race relations, and churches, and what that should look like for us, as Christians. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I remember, Dennis\u2014I was, I think, 12 years old; and I was reading a book that was probably too mature for me to be reading at the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was the book, <em>In the Heat of the Night<\/em>. I don\u2019t know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014if you remember the movie that came out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I do. I do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And the reason I remember it was because I was stunned in reading this book to read about the main character, who was a black detective from California, who was in the Deep South, travelling from one location to another. A murder occurs in the town. He is brought in as a suspect because he is a black man at the train station. They figure, \u201cHe must be the guy.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn reading the story, I learned that there were, in the South, separate drinking fountains and separate bathrooms for blacks. I went downstairs to my mom; and I said, \u201cIs this true, or did the author just make this up?\u201d\u00a0 And that was my first exposure to the level of racial bigotry that had existed in our country before I was born. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I\u2019d have to say, Bob, I was pretty clueless about racial bigotry, and hatred, and much of what was going on in the South when I was growing up as a boy. That\u2019s what makes today\u2019s topic, I think, relevant for families. I really do want\u2014not only individuals to be listening to this today but, also, families\u2014and ask the question, \u201cWhat can we do, as a family, to address the issue of diversity?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we have with us the author of <em>United<\/em>, which is subtitled, <em>Captured by God\u2019s Vision for Diversity<\/em>. Trillia Newbell joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Thank you for having me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>She and her husband have been married since 2003. They have two children. They live near some of my grandchildren in Nashville. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Oh? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, yes. I have four grandchildren over there in Nashville. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>That\u2019s great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>She writes for the <em>Knoxville News Sentinel<\/em>; also, The Gospel Coalition, Karis; and she, also, works\u2014and this is really sad\u2014but she works for Dr. Russell Moore. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Why is that sad?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I just think about that. You have to have something that allows your grin to stop every day. He has to be one of the funniest people I\u2019ve ever met but, also, one of the best followers of Christ\u2014so anyway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I agree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>He\u2019s great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s talk about where Bob and I grew up. Was that your experience, growing up as a little girl?\u00a0 Where did you grow up?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee. So, I was in the Southeast. My experience\u2014I grew up in the 80s\/the 90s. So, I definitely experienced racism\u2014probably not to the degree \/ well, not probably\u2014<em>definitely<\/em> not to the degree of my parents; but I definitely had situations where\u2014one time I was walking down the street and somebody yelled the \u201cN-word\u201d out their window toward me. I\u2019ve had different situations where parents would not allow for me to come to their kid\u2019s home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, we had a country club in the 80s that would not allow African-Americans or blacks to come and join. So, we\u2019ve experienced it\u2014not \u201cseparate but equal,\u201d as my parents may have\u2014but definitely racism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, Barbara and I\u2014neither one\u2014feel like we have ever struggled with racism. Maybe, it\u2019s because of where we grew up\u2014perhaps, the families we grew up in. I don\u2019t ever remember my father or my mother ever uttering any kind of judgment of people of a different race. I grew up in a home that didn\u2019t embrace diversity because there wasn\u2019t a lot of diversity in our community to embrace as such. There was only one African-American family that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014lived in our community out of about 12\/13 hundred people. But still, if there had been an attitude there, it would have shown up. I think that made a big impact on my life, as a boy, and ultimately, me, as a man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. So, if your parents <em>love<\/em> people, and you see that love for people, and they don\u2019t speak ill of others, it will\u2014it will have a <em>good impact<\/em>. So, when you do meet someone of a different ethnicity, it\u2019s not something that is <em>strange<\/em> but something that is <em>exciting<\/em>\u2014you can delight in it. You can get to know your neighbor or friend and get to know people because we are all made in the image of God and we can learn from one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you remember, as a young girl, being awakened to the reality of racism\u2014being aware that there were some people who were looking down on you because you were black?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Absolutely, my father taught me, really early on, about the Civil Rights Movement. So, I don\u2019t remember a time when I <em>didn\u2019t <\/em>know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You were always aware that this had been an issue in the land you grew up in?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I was always aware. I can\u2019t remember a time not knowing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m sure when I was five didn\u2019t know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Trillia: <\/strong>\u2014but I just understood that the world was divided, as my father would teach me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But do you remember <em>experiencing<\/em> it for the first time\u2014when it kind of first hit you, \u201cThat person doesn\u2019t like me because I\u2019m different\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>You know, I don\u2019t remember the first experience. All I remember is always feeling <em>different<\/em>, and I think it was because I grew up in a white community. So, I can\u2019t remember the first time where I felt like someone thought they were superior to me. I can\u2019t identify that; but I grew up with curly, curly hair\u2014so I just looked different with brown skin. In my community, I just <em>knew<\/em> I was different. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But you are made in the image of God\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and valued equally\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and you\u2019re a joint heir of the grace of life with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And the body of Christ ought to be unified. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was just chatting before we came into the studio about a man who was old enough to be a grandpa, who was really the first genuine bigot I had ever met\u2014I mean, he was a racist\u2014and I was 24 years old. That may sound like I grew up in some kind of bubble; but even though I had been to junior college and I had played basketball with other young men from different races, all across the country, on a nationally-ranked junior college basketball team, I didn\u2019t see any racism. Again, maybe, it was because I was na\u00efve because of the home I had been raised up in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Nonetheless, when I encountered him, this grandpa was a guy who went to a Bible-teaching church. I mean, his theology about the second coming was excellent \/ the authority of Scripture; but when it came to accepting people of other ethnicities, he didn\u2019t have it\u2014he was clueless. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow would you explain something like that other than just the darkness of man\u2019s soul?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I would ask him, \u201cWhat was he taught?\u201d because a lot of churches used to teach that there was a curse on black people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: The mark of Cain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Being African-American\/being black meant that you have the mark of Cain; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia<\/strong>: Right; and that is a misunderstanding and a misinterpretation of Scripture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Trillia: <\/strong>So, I think that would be my first question. The next one would be\u2014to be racist, there is a root of pride in your heart\u2014and so, I would just wonder if he understood creation\u2014understood that, in Genesis \/ the beginning, we are all created in the image of God. We are all born of Adam. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I just think there is probably a lack of teaching and a lack of understanding of the Scriptures there; but because of the sin in our hearts, we are <em>prone<\/em> to pride and arrogance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that he\u2014it sounds like it could have been a major blind spot\u2014that one of those things that he just\u2014that\u2019s what he was taught \/ that\u2019s what he knew. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think you may be right. How else could you explain somebody who would grow up in this era?\u2014who watched the Civil Rights Movement occur \/ who had to listen to a large percentage of the South ask to be treated as human beings. Back to Bob\u2019s illustration of water fountains for two different groups of people \/ bathrooms for different people\u2014I\u2019ve seen that\u2014but I didn\u2019t see it here. I saw it in South Africa\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Right; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014when I travelled over there. And when I saw that, it helped me to understand what took place here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. Yes. I think it would have to be a blind spot for someone in that age and era. I mean, when I was speaking with a woman, she\u2014I believe she was maybe in her 80s\u2014she referred to me as a colored girl. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWas I offended?\u2014I was not!\u00a0 In her time and day, that\u2019s what they called people of color; so I wasn\u2019t offended. <br><br>But when you take someone and you say that they are not equal, that\u2019s the different thing\u2014that\u2019s racism, and that\u2019s sin. It\u2019s sin, ultimately, against God; and we need to take that sin where it rightly belongs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And tell us how you got really connected to Jesus Christ and when you became a follower of His. You didn\u2019t have what we would call a Christian upbringing. You refer to your family as kind of a holiday church family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes, we would get dressed up and go on Easter and Christmas. We were like\u2014you know, the pastors who get really excited about the visitors?\u00a0 We would be those visitors, except for we would only go once; and then, we\u2019d turn around and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when I was about 19, I was leading a cheer camp; and the assistant was a Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe ended up in a hotel room together, and she broke open her Bible and started to read the Word. I got defensive because I was not a Christian, and I actually was probably anti-Christian. I got defensive and said, \u201cWhat are doing with that Bible?\u201d\u00a0 And she said, \u201cOh, I\u2019m having my quiet time.\u201d\u00a0 She was just a real sweet girl. Before we know it, I\u2019m on the bed and I\u2019m crying. <br><br>But it took two broken engagements before the Lord humbled me really\u2014I was humbled. I went to the same church that she was going to, and I heard the gospel again. They prayed with me\u2014became a Christian and haven\u2019t looked back since. So, yes, I was about\u2014I think I was 22\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Wow!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay, you kind of scooted through that story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I did. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, I\u2019m going to back it up a little bit because I want to know some of the details. Why were you hostile toward this girl at cheer camp\u2014having a quiet time in your hotel room?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>When I was in high school, I was involved with a church that preached a works-gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I was involved, but I think that\u2019s where I would have been introduced to the Lord; but I didn\u2019t become a Christian. I really battled fear with church people and Christian people. So, that is probably why I was hostile\u2014I was afraid. I didn\u2019t know what she was going to say to me, and I was afraid that she would be unkind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, what did she say that had you bawling on the bed?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>You know, I don\u2019t remember. I just remember that she knew the truth, and the truth will set you free. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>So, as I was listening to her talk about God\u2019s grace, and the gospel, and Jesus who loves people, I just remember crying. I think it\u2019s because, maybe, it was one of the first times I had ever heard the truth about God\u2019s grace\u2014it was amazing!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you scooted right past two broken engagements. I mean, how did those impact your understanding grace and coming to faith?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Well, I met this guy in\u2014I think I met him when I was 16, but he was older. When I graduated from high school, we started dating. So, we dated off and on. Then, we got engaged; and then, we had a broken engagement. Then, in between that time, I met Elizabeth, the girl who shared the gospel with me; but I didn\u2019t want to give up this relationship. So, we were off and on; but then, we got together again and we had another broken engagement. At that time\u2014that is when the Lord broke me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went to the church\u2014became a Christian \/ moved on\u2014but I still had a heart for the guy because I knew that he was not a Christian and I was on fire for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI invited him to come to a thing we were doing at the church and hooked him up with another guy named Stuart. Stuart shared the gospel with him\u2014the guy gets saved. We don\u2019t talk to each other for a good two years because we were protecting each other, and we just barely talked. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, a couple of years later, he asked me to be in a \u201ccourtship\u201d; and I said, \u201cNo!\u201d because I was really\u2014I was serving the campus of the University of Tennessee and did not want to be distracted\u2014kind of like Paul\u2014I just didn\u2019t want to be distracted \/ I was really excited. A year later, he asked me again. I said, \u201cYes.\u201d\u00a0 One month later, we were engaged. Three months later, we were married and, now, we have two kids. We\u2019ve been married for 11 years! [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the two broken engagements were with your husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Were with my husband. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>And not only that, we were\u2014it was just really encouraging because of\u2014yes, it\u2019s a great story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m sorry people can\u2019t see her face\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that\u2019s what I hate right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s really <em>amazing<\/em> because God is so good to reconcile us to, first, Himself and, then, to each other\u2014so, it\u2019s amazing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tell us about this church you went to. Was it diverse?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>No, it was not diverse at all; but I was hungry for the gospel. They preached the gospel and the truth of God\u2019s Word. I loved this congregation because of the people and because of the pastors who were preaching the Word to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you feel out of place?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes, at times, I really did. They had things like The Cowboy Olympics and like really\u2014yes\u2014things that just\u2014[Laughter]\u2014didn\u2019t really fit in my personality or anything about me. So, I just\u2014so, yes, there were times where I would feel out of place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, before my husband became my husband, I was concerned\u2014\u201cOkay, is there going to be someone that I could marry?\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWould they accept me?\u00a0 Would their family accept me?\u201d\u00a0 So, I had a lot of things to really be thinking about and praying about. And there were times that I did feel out of place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, going to a predominately white church, as an African-American woman, thinking about marriage\u2014were you thinking, \u201cI\u2019m open to interracial marriage,\u201d or \u201cThat\u2019s not what I\u2019d prefer, but I\u2019d settle for that\u201d?\u00a0 What were your thoughts on that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Okay, so, my father taught us to love people. So, I never considered\u2014ever, in my whole entire life\u2014that there would be a problem with dating outside of my ethnicity\u2014never. And so, when I joined the church, my fear wasn\u2019t \u201cWell, would I find anyone who I could marry?\u201d but \u201cWould <em>they<\/em> find me acceptable?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIs there a white guy, here in Knoxville, Tennessee, going to fall in love with a black girl?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, that\u2019s bottom-line what you were wondering; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Well, bottom-line\u2014\u201c\u2026<em>Christian<\/em> white guy?\u201d\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Because I knew\u2014I mean, I dated people; and I knew that people were open\u2014but marriage is a different \/ it\u2019s different\u2014it\u2019s a commitment. I think I was probably just as fearful with their <em>family<\/em> accepting me because I felt like there were people in that church, who were willing and openly loving and could see me as their sister in Christ\u2014therefore, they would see me as equal\u2014but would their family accept me?\u00a0 So, there were things like that that I\u2019d have to think through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you and your parents ever talk about that as an issue\u2014whether\u2014what would happen if Trillia brought home a white guy and wanted to marry him?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>No, as a matter of fact, my father\u2014before he passed away in \u201997\u2014met Thern, my husband, and loved him. So, there was <em>never<\/em> an issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was raised in a family that loved people\/accepted people. We just never had any issues of racial prejudice or racism\u2014ever. So, it would never have been an issue, and it wasn\u2019t an issue when I got married. What I was always warned, though, is that I might not be accepted. So, that is something that I had to consider and realize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The whole subject of interracial marriage has really changed over the past 30\/35 years. Back in 1980, it was like a little over 6 percent of all marriages were biracial. Today, it\u2019s 15 percent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mean, America\u2019s attitude has changed toward that, I think; don\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I do; but just last year, or the year before, a church in Kentucky would not allow an interracial marriage to happen in their church; but they reversed it because of the outcry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Trillia: <\/strong>So, yes, America\u2019s attitude has changed; but there\u2019s still work to be done. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wouldn\u2019t say that, across the board, every person would accept this. I think, when we get to the root and we ask someone and sit them down, \u201cOkay, would you accept it if your daughter brought home someone out of your ethnicity?\u201d I think we would be surprised by the answer. That, I think, is still a tricky question. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I have to ask myself, as you are bringing this up: \u201cWould we be more likely to embrace someone from a different ethnic group, as a son-in-law or daughter-in-law, if we are active in our church?\u201d or \u201cWould we be less likely to do that if we are active in our church?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m a little concerned that we church folk may be more cautious than our secular neighbors are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>You know, it\u2019s unfortunate; but I think you are right. I think there could be more of a resistance to interracial marriage within the church, which is an unfortunate thing\u2014which is why I dedicated this book to my kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the dedication, I wrote, basically, that I hoped that they would ask their mom, \u201cWhy would Mom write a book?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s my prayer. My prayer is that I hope, in 40 years, it\u2019s less needed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I agree with you. And I think, if it is going to be less needed, families, who are followers of Christ, need to be intentional about reaching out to people of other ethnicities and training their children in knowing how to love. I think your book would provide some great dinner table discussion for any family who is really wanting to show the love of Christ to the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, if we are going to be transformed by the renewing of our mind on a subject like this, then, we\u2019ve got to have those kinds of conversations because the culture is going to conform us to the culture\u2019s way of thinking. We\u2019ve got to be thinking about: \u201cWhat honors God? What would please Him?\u201d\u00a0 And that\u2019s the tact that Trillia takes in the book that she\u2019s written called <em>United:<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Captured by God\u2019s Vision for Diversity<\/em>, which we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me encourage listeners: Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. In the upper left-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d\u2014if you click there, it\u2019ll take you right to the spot where you can find out more about Trillia Newbell\u2019s book, <em>United<\/em>. You can order copies of the book from us, online, if you\u2019d like; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to request your copy of the book\u2014again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and the toll-free number, 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, a quick word of thanks to those of you who help make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible\u2014those of you who are Legacy Partners and help support this ministry with regular monthly giving to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. The reality is\u2014the bills come in every month, month in and month out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWithout regular monthly support, we could not do what we do, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. And we are grateful for those of you who help underwrite the costs of producing and syndicating this program with your monthly giving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, we have added some new families as Legacy Partners\u2014that\u2019s been exciting for us. And here, as February draws to an end, we are asking you to consider joining with other families to make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible in your community. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cI CARE.\u201d The information about becoming a Legacy Partner is available right there. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner or to sign up online. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll send you a welcome kit when you sign up. We\u2019ll keep in touch with you throughout the year. Each month, we\u2019ll make resources available to you to help strengthen your marriage and your family. You really do become a part of the team when you join us as a Legacy Partner. You can also sign on by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY and saying, \u201cI\u2019d like to become a Legacy Partner.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, \u201cThanks,\u201d to those of you who have already gotten in touch with us. And for everyone else, would you consider becoming one of the key partners in your community?\u00a0 We would love to hear from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you\u2019ll join us back tomorrow. Trillia Newbell is going to be here again. We\u2019re going to continue our conversation about unity, diversity, and our faith. That comes up tomorrow. Hope you are here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. 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is no respecter of persons, and neither should we be. Author Trillia Newbell talks about growing up as an African American in a white community and being the target of racism.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a young, single black woman, attending a mostly white church in the South, Trillia Newbell remembers thinking to herself, \u201cIs this really where I belong?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>There were times when I would feel out of place. And then, before my husband became my husband, I was concerned\u2014\u201cOkay, is there going to be someone in this church?\u201d\u2014I just was curious\u2014\u201cCould there be someone that I could marry?\u00a0 Would they accept me?\u00a0 Would their family accept me?\u201d\u00a0 I had a lot of things to really be thinking about and praying about. There were times when I did feel out of place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, February 26<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. The Bible says that in Christ we are all one. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female\u2014we are all one. So, what should that unity look like in a local church? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to explore that today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. You know, we are going to be tackling a subject today that, honestly, has become an emotionally-charged subject in our culture over the last several months. And here, you and I are two guys who grew up in the Midwest\u2014two white guys\u2014going to be talking with our guest, Trillia Newbell, about racial tension, and race relations, and churches, and what that should look like for us, as Christians. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I remember, Dennis\u2014I was, I think, 12 years old; and I was reading a book that was probably too mature for me to be reading at the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was the book, <em>In the Heat of the Night<\/em>. I don\u2019t know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014if you remember the movie that came out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I do. I do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And the reason I remember it was because I was stunned in reading this book to read about the main character, who was a black detective from California, who was in the Deep South, travelling from one location to another. A murder occurs in the town. He is brought in as a suspect because he is a black man at the train station. They figure, \u201cHe must be the guy.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn reading the story, I learned that there were, in the South, separate drinking fountains and separate bathrooms for blacks. I went downstairs to my mom; and I said, \u201cIs this true, or did the author just make this up?\u201d\u00a0 And that was my first exposure to the level of racial bigotry that had existed in our country before I was born. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I\u2019d have to say, Bob, I was pretty clueless about racial bigotry, and hatred, and much of what was going on in the South when I was growing up as a boy. That\u2019s what makes today\u2019s topic, I think, relevant for families. I really do want\u2014not only individuals to be listening to this today but, also, families\u2014and ask the question, \u201cWhat can we do, as a family, to address the issue of diversity?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we have with us the author of <em>United<\/em>, which is subtitled, <em>Captured by God\u2019s Vision for Diversity<\/em>. Trillia Newbell joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Thank you for having me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>She and her husband have been married since 2003. They have two children. They live near some of my grandchildren in Nashville. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Oh? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, yes. I have four grandchildren over there in Nashville. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>That\u2019s great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>She writes for the <em>Knoxville News Sentinel<\/em>; also, The Gospel Coalition, Karis; and she, also, works\u2014and this is really sad\u2014but she works for Dr. Russell Moore. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Why is that sad?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I just think about that. You have to have something that allows your grin to stop every day. He has to be one of the funniest people I\u2019ve ever met but, also, one of the best followers of Christ\u2014so anyway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I agree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>He\u2019s great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s talk about where Bob and I grew up. Was that your experience, growing up as a little girl?\u00a0 Where did you grow up?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee. So, I was in the Southeast. My experience\u2014I grew up in the 80s\/the 90s. So, I definitely experienced racism\u2014probably not to the degree \/ well, not probably\u2014<em>definitely<\/em> not to the degree of my parents; but I definitely had situations where\u2014one time I was walking down the street and somebody yelled the \u201cN-word\u201d out their window toward me. I\u2019ve had different situations where parents would not allow for me to come to their kid\u2019s home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, we had a country club in the 80s that would not allow African-Americans or blacks to come and join. So, we\u2019ve experienced it\u2014not \u201cseparate but equal,\u201d as my parents may have\u2014but definitely racism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, Barbara and I\u2014neither one\u2014feel like we have ever struggled with racism. Maybe, it\u2019s because of where we grew up\u2014perhaps, the families we grew up in. I don\u2019t ever remember my father or my mother ever uttering any kind of judgment of people of a different race. I grew up in a home that didn\u2019t embrace diversity because there wasn\u2019t a lot of diversity in our community to embrace as such. There was only one African-American family that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014lived in our community out of about 12\/13 hundred people. But still, if there had been an attitude there, it would have shown up. I think that made a big impact on my life, as a boy, and ultimately, me, as a man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. So, if your parents <em>love<\/em> people, and you see that love for people, and they don\u2019t speak ill of others, it will\u2014it will have a <em>good impact<\/em>. So, when you do meet someone of a different ethnicity, it\u2019s not something that is <em>strange<\/em> but something that is <em>exciting<\/em>\u2014you can delight in it. You can get to know your neighbor or friend and get to know people because we are all made in the image of God and we can learn from one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you remember, as a young girl, being awakened to the reality of racism\u2014being aware that there were some people who were looking down on you because you were black?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Absolutely, my father taught me, really early on, about the Civil Rights Movement. So, I don\u2019t remember a time when I <em>didn\u2019t <\/em>know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You were always aware that this had been an issue in the land you grew up in?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I was always aware. I can\u2019t remember a time not knowing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m sure when I was five didn\u2019t know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Trillia: <\/strong>\u2014but I just understood that the world was divided, as my father would teach me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But do you remember <em>experiencing<\/em> it for the first time\u2014when it kind of first hit you, \u201cThat person doesn\u2019t like me because I\u2019m different\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>You know, I don\u2019t remember the first experience. All I remember is always feeling <em>different<\/em>, and I think it was because I grew up in a white community. So, I can\u2019t remember the first time where I felt like someone thought they were superior to me. I can\u2019t identify that; but I grew up with curly, curly hair\u2014so I just looked different with brown skin. In my community, I just <em>knew<\/em> I was different. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But you are made in the image of God\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and valued equally\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and you\u2019re a joint heir of the grace of life with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And the body of Christ ought to be unified. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was just chatting before we came into the studio about a man who was old enough to be a grandpa, who was really the first genuine bigot I had ever met\u2014I mean, he was a racist\u2014and I was 24 years old. That may sound like I grew up in some kind of bubble; but even though I had been to junior college and I had played basketball with other young men from different races, all across the country, on a nationally-ranked junior college basketball team, I didn\u2019t see any racism. Again, maybe, it was because I was na\u00efve because of the home I had been raised up in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Nonetheless, when I encountered him, this grandpa was a guy who went to a Bible-teaching church. I mean, his theology about the second coming was excellent \/ the authority of Scripture; but when it came to accepting people of other ethnicities, he didn\u2019t have it\u2014he was clueless. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow would you explain something like that other than just the darkness of man\u2019s soul?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I would ask him, \u201cWhat was he taught?\u201d because a lot of churches used to teach that there was a curse on black people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: The mark of Cain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Being African-American\/being black meant that you have the mark of Cain; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia<\/strong>: Right; and that is a misunderstanding and a misinterpretation of Scripture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Trillia: <\/strong>So, I think that would be my first question. The next one would be\u2014to be racist, there is a root of pride in your heart\u2014and so, I would just wonder if he understood creation\u2014understood that, in Genesis \/ the beginning, we are all created in the image of God. We are all born of Adam. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I just think there is probably a lack of teaching and a lack of understanding of the Scriptures there; but because of the sin in our hearts, we are <em>prone<\/em> to pride and arrogance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that he\u2014it sounds like it could have been a major blind spot\u2014that one of those things that he just\u2014that\u2019s what he was taught \/ that\u2019s what he knew. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think you may be right. How else could you explain somebody who would grow up in this era?\u2014who watched the Civil Rights Movement occur \/ who had to listen to a large percentage of the South ask to be treated as human beings. Back to Bob\u2019s illustration of water fountains for two different groups of people \/ bathrooms for different people\u2014I\u2019ve seen that\u2014but I didn\u2019t see it here. I saw it in South Africa\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Right; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014when I travelled over there. And when I saw that, it helped me to understand what took place here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. Yes. I think it would have to be a blind spot for someone in that age and era. I mean, when I was speaking with a woman, she\u2014I believe she was maybe in her 80s\u2014she referred to me as a colored girl. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWas I offended?\u2014I was not!\u00a0 In her time and day, that\u2019s what they called people of color; so I wasn\u2019t offended. <br><br>But when you take someone and you say that they are not equal, that\u2019s the different thing\u2014that\u2019s racism, and that\u2019s sin. It\u2019s sin, ultimately, against God; and we need to take that sin where it rightly belongs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And tell us how you got really connected to Jesus Christ and when you became a follower of His. You didn\u2019t have what we would call a Christian upbringing. You refer to your family as kind of a holiday church family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes, we would get dressed up and go on Easter and Christmas. We were like\u2014you know, the pastors who get really excited about the visitors?\u00a0 We would be those visitors, except for we would only go once; and then, we\u2019d turn around and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when I was about 19, I was leading a cheer camp; and the assistant was a Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe ended up in a hotel room together, and she broke open her Bible and started to read the Word. I got defensive because I was not a Christian, and I actually was probably anti-Christian. I got defensive and said, \u201cWhat are doing with that Bible?\u201d\u00a0 And she said, \u201cOh, I\u2019m having my quiet time.\u201d\u00a0 She was just a real sweet girl. Before we know it, I\u2019m on the bed and I\u2019m crying. <br><br>But it took two broken engagements before the Lord humbled me really\u2014I was humbled. I went to the same church that she was going to, and I heard the gospel again. They prayed with me\u2014became a Christian and haven\u2019t looked back since. So, yes, I was about\u2014I think I was 22\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Wow!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay, you kind of scooted through that story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I did. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, I\u2019m going to back it up a little bit because I want to know some of the details. Why were you hostile toward this girl at cheer camp\u2014having a quiet time in your hotel room?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>When I was in high school, I was involved with a church that preached a works-gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I was involved, but I think that\u2019s where I would have been introduced to the Lord; but I didn\u2019t become a Christian. I really battled fear with church people and Christian people. So, that is probably why I was hostile\u2014I was afraid. I didn\u2019t know what she was going to say to me, and I was afraid that she would be unkind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, what did she say that had you bawling on the bed?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>You know, I don\u2019t remember. I just remember that she knew the truth, and the truth will set you free. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>So, as I was listening to her talk about God\u2019s grace, and the gospel, and Jesus who loves people, I just remember crying. I think it\u2019s because, maybe, it was one of the first times I had ever heard the truth about God\u2019s grace\u2014it was amazing!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you scooted right past two broken engagements. I mean, how did those impact your understanding grace and coming to faith?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Well, I met this guy in\u2014I think I met him when I was 16, but he was older. When I graduated from high school, we started dating. So, we dated off and on. Then, we got engaged; and then, we had a broken engagement. Then, in between that time, I met Elizabeth, the girl who shared the gospel with me; but I didn\u2019t want to give up this relationship. So, we were off and on; but then, we got together again and we had another broken engagement. At that time\u2014that is when the Lord broke me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went to the church\u2014became a Christian \/ moved on\u2014but I still had a heart for the guy because I knew that he was not a Christian and I was on fire for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI invited him to come to a thing we were doing at the church and hooked him up with another guy named Stuart. Stuart shared the gospel with him\u2014the guy gets saved. We don\u2019t talk to each other for a good two years because we were protecting each other, and we just barely talked. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, a couple of years later, he asked me to be in a \u201ccourtship\u201d; and I said, \u201cNo!\u201d because I was really\u2014I was serving the campus of the University of Tennessee and did not want to be distracted\u2014kind of like Paul\u2014I just didn\u2019t want to be distracted \/ I was really excited. A year later, he asked me again. I said, \u201cYes.\u201d\u00a0 One month later, we were engaged. Three months later, we were married and, now, we have two kids. We\u2019ve been married for 11 years! [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the two broken engagements were with your husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Were with my husband. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>And not only that, we were\u2014it was just really encouraging because of\u2014yes, it\u2019s a great story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m sorry people can\u2019t see her face\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that\u2019s what I hate right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s really <em>amazing<\/em> because God is so good to reconcile us to, first, Himself and, then, to each other\u2014so, it\u2019s amazing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tell us about this church you went to. Was it diverse?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>No, it was not diverse at all; but I was hungry for the gospel. They preached the gospel and the truth of God\u2019s Word. I loved this congregation because of the people and because of the pastors who were preaching the Word to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you feel out of place?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes, at times, I really did. They had things like The Cowboy Olympics and like really\u2014yes\u2014things that just\u2014[Laughter]\u2014didn\u2019t really fit in my personality or anything about me. So, I just\u2014so, yes, there were times where I would feel out of place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, before my husband became my husband, I was concerned\u2014\u201cOkay, is there going to be someone that I could marry?\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWould they accept me?\u00a0 Would their family accept me?\u201d\u00a0 So, I had a lot of things to really be thinking about and praying about. And there were times that I did feel out of place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, going to a predominately white church, as an African-American woman, thinking about marriage\u2014were you thinking, \u201cI\u2019m open to interracial marriage,\u201d or \u201cThat\u2019s not what I\u2019d prefer, but I\u2019d settle for that\u201d?\u00a0 What were your thoughts on that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Okay, so, my father taught us to love people. So, I never considered\u2014ever, in my whole entire life\u2014that there would be a problem with dating outside of my ethnicity\u2014never. And so, when I joined the church, my fear wasn\u2019t \u201cWell, would I find anyone who I could marry?\u201d but \u201cWould <em>they<\/em> find me acceptable?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIs there a white guy, here in Knoxville, Tennessee, going to fall in love with a black girl?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, that\u2019s bottom-line what you were wondering; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Well, bottom-line\u2014\u201c\u2026<em>Christian<\/em> white guy?\u201d\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Because I knew\u2014I mean, I dated people; and I knew that people were open\u2014but marriage is a different \/ it\u2019s different\u2014it\u2019s a commitment. I think I was probably just as fearful with their <em>family<\/em> accepting me because I felt like there were people in that church, who were willing and openly loving and could see me as their sister in Christ\u2014therefore, they would see me as equal\u2014but would their family accept me?\u00a0 So, there were things like that that I\u2019d have to think through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you and your parents ever talk about that as an issue\u2014whether\u2014what would happen if Trillia brought home a white guy and wanted to marry him?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>No, as a matter of fact, my father\u2014before he passed away in \u201997\u2014met Thern, my husband, and loved him. So, there was <em>never<\/em> an issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was raised in a family that loved people\/accepted people. We just never had any issues of racial prejudice or racism\u2014ever. So, it would never have been an issue, and it wasn\u2019t an issue when I got married. What I was always warned, though, is that I might not be accepted. So, that is something that I had to consider and realize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The whole subject of interracial marriage has really changed over the past 30\/35 years. Back in 1980, it was like a little over 6 percent of all marriages were biracial. Today, it\u2019s 15 percent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mean, America\u2019s attitude has changed toward that, I think; don\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Trillia: <\/strong>I do; but just last year, or the year before, a church in Kentucky would not allow an interracial marriage to happen in their church; but they reversed it because of the outcry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Trillia: <\/strong>So, yes, America\u2019s attitude has changed; but there\u2019s still work to be done. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wouldn\u2019t say that, across the board, every person would accept this. I think, when we get to the root and we ask someone and sit them down, \u201cOkay, would you accept it if your daughter brought home someone out of your ethnicity?\u201d I think we would be surprised by the answer. That, I think, is still a tricky question. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I have to ask myself, as you are bringing this up: \u201cWould we be more likely to embrace someone from a different ethnic group, as a son-in-law or daughter-in-law, if we are active in our church?\u201d or \u201cWould we be less likely to do that if we are active in our church?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m a little concerned that we church folk may be more cautious than our secular neighbors are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trillia: <\/strong>You know, it\u2019s unfortunate; but I think you are right. I think there could be more of a resistance to interracial marriage within the church, which is an unfortunate thing\u2014which is why I dedicated this book to my kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the dedication, I wrote, basically, that I hoped that they would ask their mom, \u201cWhy would Mom write a book?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s my prayer. My prayer is that I hope, in 40 years, it\u2019s less needed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I agree with you. And I think, if it is going to be less needed, families, who are followers of Christ, need to be intentional about reaching out to people of other ethnicities and training their children in knowing how to love. I think your book would provide some great dinner table discussion for any family who is really wanting to show the love of Christ to the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, if we are going to be transformed by the renewing of our mind on a subject like this, then, we\u2019ve got to have those kinds of conversations because the culture is going to conform us to the culture\u2019s way of thinking. We\u2019ve got to be thinking about: \u201cWhat honors God? What would please Him?\u201d\u00a0 And that\u2019s the tact that Trillia takes in the book that she\u2019s written called <em>United:<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Captured by God\u2019s Vision for Diversity<\/em>, which we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me encourage listeners: Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. In the upper left-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d\u2014if you click there, it\u2019ll take you right to the spot where you can find out more about Trillia Newbell\u2019s book, <em>United<\/em>. You can order copies of the book from us, online, if you\u2019d like; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to request your copy of the book\u2014again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and the toll-free number, 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, a quick word of thanks to those of you who help make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible\u2014those of you who are Legacy Partners and help support this ministry with regular monthly giving to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. The reality is\u2014the bills come in every month, month in and month out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWithout regular monthly support, we could not do what we do, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. And we are grateful for those of you who help underwrite the costs of producing and syndicating this program with your monthly giving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, we have added some new families as Legacy Partners\u2014that\u2019s been exciting for us. And here, as February draws to an end, we are asking you to consider joining with other families to make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible in your community. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, \u201cI CARE.\u201d The information about becoming a Legacy Partner is available right there. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner or to sign up online. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll send you a welcome kit when you sign up. We\u2019ll keep in touch with you throughout the year. Each month, we\u2019ll make resources available to you to help strengthen your marriage and your family. You really do become a part of the team when you join us as a Legacy Partner. You can also sign on by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY and saying, \u201cI\u2019d like to become a Legacy Partner.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, \u201cThanks,\u201d to those of you who have already gotten in touch with us. And for everyone else, would you consider becoming one of the key partners in your community?\u00a0 We would love to hear from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you\u2019ll join us back tomorrow. Trillia Newbell is going to be here again. We\u2019re going to continue our conversation about unity, diversity, and our faith. That comes up tomorrow. Hope you are here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303397","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303397"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303397"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303397"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303397"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303397"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303397"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303397"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}