{"id":303377,"date":"2015-02-05T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2015-02-05T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/spiritual-concerns-of-the-pastors-kids\/"},"modified":"2015-02-05T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2015-02-05T17:00:00","slug":"spiritual-concerns-of-the-pastors-kids","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/spiritual-concerns-of-the-pastors-kids\/","title":{"rendered":"Spiritual Concerns of the Pastor&#8217;s Kids"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>If the pastor has a good relationship with God, then his children must as well.  Not necessarily. Barnabas Piper talks about the spiritual challenges he faced growing up as the son of John Piper.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-05.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"25.94M","filesize_raw":"27204130","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2833,2806],"tags":[5605,5603,5604],"podcast_series":[8063],"cwp_profile":[9376],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303377","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-godly-legacy","category-spiritual-development","tag-ministry-families","tag-pastor-kids","tag-preacher-kids","podcast_series-the-pastors-kid","cwp_profile-barnabas-piper","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303377\/spiritual-concerns-of-the-pastors-kids","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303377\/spiritual-concerns-of-the-pastors-kids","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"4xEhglVpXd\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/spiritual-concerns-of-the-pastors-kids\/\">Spiritual Concerns of the Pastor&#8217;s Kids<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/spiritual-concerns-of-the-pastors-kids\/embed\/#?secret=4xEhglVpXd\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Spiritual Concerns of the Pastor&#8217;s Kids&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"4xEhglVpXd\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-05.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-05.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Barnabas Piper remembers growing up as a pastor\u2019s kid and realizing that he had never really made his faith his own. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I served in church\u2014I loved serving with youth. At one level, I did have a passion for serving the Lord; but I had never actually really found a connection to Christ that was that kind of thing that you go, \u201cIf all else fails, I know exactly who Jesus is and He\u2019s real and I can <em>never<\/em> doubt that.\u201d\u00a0 I only had this sort of answer-based faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, February 5<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll talk to Barnabas Piper today about his move from shaky faith to solid faith. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I remember one of the things that almost kept <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> from ever happening\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014was that you had six kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We had the conversation\u2014because when we started <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, your oldest child was 17 years old;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014your youngest was seven. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They were all in between there, and you were concerned that being on radio and talking about marriage and family\u2014there\u2019d be some potential blow-back for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I was married to a woman who felt even stronger about that than I did and was really concerned about losing our anonymity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you decided to go ahead and launch a radio program?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I could never have guessed that doing that would have had a cost to it\u2014and I don\u2019t mean that altogether negatively\u2014but a weight to it\u2014to my children that I could never have understood without doing it. That\u2019s part of why I enjoyed your book, Barnabas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe guest on the program today is Barnabas Piper. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe has written a book called <em>The Pastor\u2019s Kid<\/em>, and it\u2019s subtitled <em>Finding Your Own Faith<\/em>\u2014and I think the key word here is\u2014<em>and Your Identity<\/em>. Barnabas, you talk, at the beginning of your book, about assumptions that people make about PK\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014about preachers\u2019 kids. Quickly go through those assumptions and kind of help us understand how pastors\u2019 kids think about themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>These are common across pastors\u2019 kids from large churches, small churches, et cetera. I mean, it\u2019s\u2014in having a chance to talk to as many as I did, this is one of the things that stood out to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The first main assumption is that the pastor\u2019s kid has a good relationship with God. Obviously, our parents are the spiritual leaders of the church. Later in the book, I write about some things that I think are wrong with how people view the pastor and putting him on too high of a pedestal\u2014but that\u2019s a separate issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the blow-back of that is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014 that if the pastor has that kind of relationship with God, then, his kids must as well\u2014not giving us the room to be normal children \/ normal teenagers\u2014who have a lot of questions, who don\u2019t know the answers to everything, and who are growing in a relationship with God, or in some cases, we don\u2019t have one at all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you feel like you had to put on a mask and act a certain way because you were a pastor\u2019s kid and misrepresent what was really going on in your heart and life as you were growing up?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>For me, it wasn\u2019t an active misrepresentation. It was more just deep down inside I did not know what I believed, but I knew all the right answers. So, it\u2019s almost as if I <em>thought <\/em>I believed something that <em>wasn\u2019t<\/em> really <em>alive <\/em>in me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know there are pastors\u2019 kids who faked it, and I know there are some pastors\u2019 kids who just flat-out rebel. For me, it was the identity piece. I did not have a strong identity in Christ because I only knew the answers. I didn\u2019t have this <em>living faith<\/em> in me through a personal relationship with Christ in the same way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your dad is John Piper. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can see how someone would go, \u201cOh, man, he is such a theologian \/ such a man of God\u201d; but I guess I have to ask you the question, \u201cWhy do you think people expect the kids to be other than just kids?\u201d\u2014I mean, normal kids who have the same sin nature, the same selfishness, the same sibling rivalry \/ struggles that other kids have. Is it our desire for having somebody\u2014to put somebody on a pedestal and hoping their marriage and their family will all be perfect?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>That\u2019s a really <em>tough<\/em> question to answer. I think\u2014I do think it stems from\u2014I don\u2019t know why people view pastors this way\u2014but there is a sense that the pastor is morally superior \/ theologically superior\u2014he has a connection to God that normal people don't have. And it\u2019s almost as if that is a genetic thing that gets passed down to kids. So, I am genetically predisposed to a closer relationship with God than other people\u2014is the way that it plays. Obviously, that is not true. Nobody would <em>express<\/em> it in those words, but that\u2019s the way it feels: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBecause you share a genetic code with John Piper,\u201d\u2014or with any pastor\u2014\u201cyou are, therefore, closer to God.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You actually use a secular illustration about a baseball player, who played for the Twins, who was your idol\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014as a way of illustrating this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>So, growing up\u2014so, I grew up in Minneapolis, Minnesota. We were just a few blocks from the Metrodome, where they did win two World Series Championships with Kirby Puckett. He was\u2014he was short and stout. I was short and stout, as a kid. I loved baseball. He played the game with just this exuberance. So, me, as a fan\u2014I looked at him and said: \u201cHe plays the game the right way. He\u2019s awesome at baseball.\u201d\u00a0 I just projected that onto all of his life\u2014everything was great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it comes out, after he retires, that he had been accused of assaulting a woman in a bar and just sort of had this sorted history of misbehavior. It was like a sucker punch because I thought he had everything together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, looking back on it, the problem was that I set the wrong expectation for him. I did not think of him as just as prone to make mistakes as any other person\u2014just as prone to make bad decisions. I assumed that, since he was great at one thing, he would be great at everything. That\u2019s the way that people often view the pastor\u2019s family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What\u2019s another assumption that people make about PK\u2019s?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>They think that we have a great relationship with our family because\u2014and it stems directly from: \u201cThey\u2019re closer to God. Therefore, they must be close to one another.\u201d\u00a0 But any pastor\u2019s family will tell you that they go through the exact same tensions as any other family\u2014sibling rivalries, rebellion against parents, disobedience\u2014because we are all born sinners. You pack us all into a house\u2014I mean, you had six kids\u2014there is going to be a <em>whole<\/em> lot of conflict in a house with two parents and six kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, yes, there was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>And so, I mean, I remember\u2014when I was in high school, talking to a youth leader of mine, and talking about the tensions I was having with my mom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mom and I butted heads a lot when I was in high school. She\u2019s a very strong lady, and I was a very strong-willed and not very respectful teenage boy. She was not going to take that nonsense from me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went in and didn\u2019t get the kind of response that I hoped to get\u2014not that I expected him to side with me, but it felt as if he was almost surprised that our family would be butting heads this way because we were the pastor\u2019s family. And that\u2014it just sort of shut the conversation down because, now, I felt like, \u201cI can\u2019t really talk to him about this because I\u2019m expected to not have normal tensions with parents.\u201d\u00a0 That kind of goes across the board\u2014even today, I think my dad and mom are under great pressure to have perfect relationships with their kids, now that we\u2019re grown\u2014and relationships with parents\u2014they\u2019re not always perfect. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As you talked with other PK\u2019s, who are now in their 20\u2019s and 30\u2019s, were they saying that their relationship with their parents still has strain to it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Absolutely. And some of that is on the parents because pastors are so tied into their ministry\u2014this is their life. They devote their lives to this\u2014it\u2019s their calling. If a child goes a different route\u2014and I don\u2019t mean walking away from the Lord\u2014I mean, maybe a different expression of faith in the Lord or a different occupation as opposed to ministry in some cases\u2014that can create tension. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr in some cases, it\u2019s a theological distinctive. One person goes a more reformed direction while another person goes a more Arminian direction, and they still have those. Then, other times, it\u2019s the personality clash that\u2019s inevitable in families. People fight because people don\u2019t always get along. I mean, I don\u2019t think there is a deeper explanation than that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, I\u2019m just sitting here, thinking about the fact that a pastor\u2014a part of his vocation is to read\/study the Scriptures deeply\u2014to interpret, to make sense, to draw conclusions, to draw principles. You would think, \u201cWell, somebody who does that as many hours as your dad did it would have a handle on how to live out their faith better than the guy who reads his Bible 30 minutes in the morning, three times a week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the expectation\u2014what\u2019s wrong with that expectation that somebody, who is really digging deep into the Scriptures, is going to have a better handle on life?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Well, I think\u2014let me turn the comparison a little bit\u2014and let\u2019s compare different pastors. If you assume that every pastor is devoting their life to Scripture and studying it in the same way, you\u2019d think they would all have a better handle on it. But pastors don\u2019t all agree on how to do things because Scripture is not easy to interpret. It can be interpreted different ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFiguring out what it looks like to honor Jesus with your life can have different flavors to it. Some people are very, very strict; and some people take things with the more open hand. Both of them feel like, \u201cI\u2019m living the life that honors Jesus\u201d; and both of them are pastors. The theme that has to happen is grace\u2014grace to forgive \/ grace to have the freedom to come at Jesus from a different place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPastors\u2019 kids are not starting at the same place their parents are. So, we need grace to come at it in that way, and we need that grace from the church\u2014the grace of giving us some space to make mistakes and to encounter God in a different way and to not always encounter Him the right way. I\u2019m not saying that pastors\u2019 kids get it right. I am saying we need the <em>room<\/em> to figure out how to encounter Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you read your Old Testament. Godly kings and priests had ungodly offspring. So, the family dynamics, throughout the Old Testament, are not family dynamics where you tap into some spiritual vein and everybody just runs in the same direction; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Right. I mean, you look at say David and Solomon. Before Solomon went astray, he was a very godly person\u2014he built the Temple\u2014and he was dynamically different than his father. <br><br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>And that\u2019s normal. The apple does not always fall close to the tree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, it doesn\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd what I want to talk about is\u2014when your apple hit the ground,\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014what happened?\u2014because you had a crisis where that crisis ultimately helped you determine your spiritual address \/ your spiritual identity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes; absolutely. Growing up, I came into college with a base understanding of the Bible, and theology, and faith that I didn\u2019t realize was sort of abnormally robust because that was the nature of the home I grew up in and the church I grew up in. So, I go into my first Bible class at Wheaton. I realize there are people here who don\u2019t know the characters of the Old Testament. They can\u2019t list the 66 books of the Bible\u2014I mean\u2014those kinds of things that I had known since I was five. That gave me a sense of perceived identity because: \u201cI\u2019m a believer. I know these things. I know all the right answers.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt one level, I did have a passion for serving the Lord. I served in church\u2014I loved serving with youth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI loved Jesus; but I had never actually really found a connection to Christ that was that kind of thing that you go, \u201cIf all else fails, I know exactly who Jesus is and He\u2019s real and I can <em>never<\/em> doubt that.\u201d\u00a0 I only had this sort of answer-based faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I got out of college, got married, had a couple daughters, and was working in publishing. Throughout all of this\u2014even dating back to my childhood\u2014there was this pocket of my life that I had never given over to the Lord\u2014just these sort of doubts, and sins, and things that I just held onto. It\u2019s kind of like the old story of the little white lie that grows bigger, and bigger, and bigger\u2014it was like that. It was this streak of dishonesty, and it ended up costing me my job. My wife had no idea. She thought I was wonderful until I have to go home and say, \u201cHey, I don\u2019t have a job anymore,\u201d and then explain why, and explain that it was all my fault, and there were things she didn\u2019t know\u2014I hadn\u2019t told her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that point, I was working for a man who was an elder at our church. There was a church involvement here, which, providentially, was really, really good for me. At the time, I was really, really not happy with that because, at that point, I was faced with the decision of: \u201cI can do the hard work\u2014the incredibly painful work of apology, of repentance, and of restoration.\u201d\u00a0 I mean, it\u2019s like post-surgery rehab. You have to rebuild everything and hope, against hope, that your spouse can trust you again. Or \u201cI can just quit.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was finally kind of on the outside of faith, looking in, saying: \u201cIs this worth it or not?\u00a0 Do those answers mean anything?\u201d\u00a0 What ended up happening\u2014and this is not any credit to me \/ this is the way that Christ shows up\u2014is the answers all just kind of faded away. For the first time, I saw what it means to need grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had always been able to explain what it meant to be a sinner\u2014being born in sin, to have sinned, to have\u2014\u201cFor all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God,\u201d\u2014I mean, I could quote the whole Roman\u2019s Road to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor the first time, I looked at myself; and I said, \u201cI have no hope outside of grace.\u201d\u00a0 That was when I began to understand exactly what all those answers meant\u2014who Jesus really is \/ what is the significance of somebody who never made the mistakes I did dying on the cross for me\u2014all of the gospel, that I believed, became meaningful. Yes, all of that restoration work was worth it. It has not been a terribly easy road; but that was when, all of a sudden, faith became real. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSince that time, I have finally been able to say: \u201cThis is my faith. This is the faith that I have in Christ. This is the interaction I have with God \/ this is why I need His Word,\u201d\u2014 aside from\u2014\u201cI know I\u2019m supposed to do this,\u201d or \u201cI know the right answers.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is that when you got the tattoo on your arm?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>This was after the fact. I have a tattoo on my arm that says: \u201cI believe. Help my unbelief.\u201d\u00a0 That was several years later, kind of looking back on it and realizing, \u201cThat is the nature of faith\u2014is, if you have encountered Jesus, there is always \u2018I believe,\u2019\u2014and that does not go anywhere\u2014but there is always a battle against unbelief\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>\u2014whether it\u2019s in doubt or whether it\u2019s in disobedience or questions. Those are sort of the bookends of faith in one sense\u2014is \u201cI believe,\u201d\u2014and that doesn\u2019t go anywhere\u2014and \u201cHelp my unbelief,\u201d which is the constant need. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A statement that God used in my life to create the same kind of spiritual awakening\u2014a determination of spiritual identity, as you described it\u2014occurred when I was 20 years old at the University of Arkansas. There was a statement made by a preacher from Brooklyn, who was preaching in the Ozarks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere is what he said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014see if you can resonate with this. I\u2019ll say it twice\u2014the first time pretty quickly. He said: \u201cI spent a long time trying to come to grips with my doubts when, suddenly, I realized I\u2019d better come to grips with what I believe. I have since moved from the agony of questions that I cannot answer to the reality of answers that I cannot escape. And it\u2019s a great relief.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I\u2019ll give this to you again. This was Tom Skinner who said this: \u201cI spent a long time trying to come to grips with my doubts when, suddenly, I realized I\u2019ve got to come to grips with what I believe. I have since moved from the agony of questions that I still can\u2019t answer to the reality of answers that are inescapable. And it\u2019s a great relief.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the description of peace\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because as you confronted Jesus Christ, you realized He loves you as you are. You didn\u2019t have to be John Piper\u2019s son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re Barnabas. You\u2019ve been given an incredible gift, and you have encountered Christ, and He has changed your life from the inside out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>And the thing that I <em>most needed<\/em>, at that point, was to realize that my identity in Christ had nothing to do with my last name because I was at a point where I had ruined whatever significance my last name brought me, at that point. I felt like I had ruined\u2014and that was when Christ came in. So, there was no \u201cJesus <em>and<\/em>\u2026.\u201d\u2014it was \u201cJesus.\u201d There was nothing else because everything else was on the rocks, at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the phrase you just said that wraps it up\u2014it\u2019s not focusing on the doubts. It\u2019s when Jesus is there\u2014there is no denying it \/ there is no doubting it. Everything else will tug, and pull, and be a struggle\u2014sure\u2014but that doesn\u2019t change, and it doesn\u2019t go away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I am just curious\u2014there had to be some perks of being a PK. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, what\u2014and not just a John Piper son PK, but I would think every PK has some things\u2014that they look back on and go, \u201cWell, I did get this, or this, or this.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What are those things?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>For me, as challenging as things were, I loved the church. I loved the big- picture church, but I loved being in church. The majority of my community and relationships came through church. I love the familial aspect of it. <br><br>Longer term\u2014and this is true for a lot of PK\u2019s\u2014is all of that biblical knowledge you get\u2014the raw material of biblical truth have enormous value, even if you have no idea what to do with them, because God can show you what to do with them later on; but when you find out later that you learned a whole bunch of stuff that you didn\u2019t even realize you were learning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have been through just about anything with the church that a person can be through\u2014both at working at one and growing up in one\u2014and I love the church now. A lot of that comes because as a pastor\u2019s kid\u2014you get to see all of the ups and downs of the church. You get to see the benefit that it brings. You get to see the blessing that it brings on people. But you also get to see the hardships, and you get to see people learn how to sort through them. <br><br><strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI got to watch my parents walk through some very hard things at church, which could have made me dislike the church; but instead, it made me go: \u201cIt\u2019s worth it. You stick it out for this.\u201d\u00a0 Then, there is just this sense of pastors\u2019 kids are in unique position to serve in the church because they basically had an apprenticeship. They got to watch what it takes to serve\u2014the difficulties and the blessings\u2014they get to see all the different kinds of people in the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know, when people come out of seminary and head into ministry, they are often shocked by just how difficult the people of the church are. [Laughter]\u00a0 Well, that\u2019s what happens when you put a bunch of sinners in one room; but a pastor\u2019s kids will have <em>seen <\/em>their parents walk through all of that\u2014so it\u2019s going to be less shocking. I\u2019m sure that the shock of firsthand experience is there; but they\u2019re in a position, where they go: \u201cOh, I know this lady\u2014there was a lady just like her at my church,\u201d \u201cI know that couple\u2014I\u2019ve seen them.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is just this ongoing sense of\u2014pastors\u2019 kids are uniquely set up to be a blessing to the church, whether it\u2019s vocational ministry or just being involved in it because they understand the challenges of other pastors too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey\u2014I feel like I\u2019m in a position to support people in ministry, maybe, in a different way than a lot of lay people are because I just intuitively know what they are facing on an average Sunday, or on an average Wednesday, or whatever the case may be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I shouldn\u2019t do this, but I\u2019m going to ask Bob to tell about your book\u2014and that\u2019s not what I shouldn\u2019t do, by the way. We need to tell people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We should do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014about the book, but I\u2019ve got one more thing I want you to do before we are done here that\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014it just seems right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. We do have copies of Barnabas\u2019 book. It\u2019s called <em>The Pastor\u2019s Kid<\/em>, and they are available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Whether you are a pastor\u2019s kid, know somebody who is, or just would like to understand a little bit about what it\u2019s like to grow up in a pastor\u2019s home\u2014maybe there is a friend of yours that you\u2019ll understand better as a result of reading a book like this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ll find information about the book, <em>The Pastor\u2019s Kid<\/em>, available. You can order it from us, online; or if you would prefer, you can call us to order. So, again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The toll-free number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. That\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd quickly, I want to let folks know, Dennis, about next week\u2014National Marriage Week. We are celebrating, here at FamilyLife, in a big way. We\u2019re going to do a lot of that celebrating via social media. So, if you are not yet a friend of ours on Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or if you\u2019re not following us on Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, let me encourage you to connect with us via social media. We\u2019ll have some fun things happening next week and some good opportunities for you to make some special Valentine\u2019s Day plans and build into your marriage relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, again, let me encourage you to connect with us via social media. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can do that by going to FamilyLifeToday.com and scrolling all the way down to the bottom of the page. You\u2019ll see the icons there for Facebook and Twitter. Just click on those. Or, if you\u2019re an experienced user, you can go to Facebook and search for us, <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, or follow us on Twitter, @FamilyLifeToday. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s been a treat to have Barnabas Piper with us. I have concluded many a broadcast by turning to the guest and saying, \u201cI want to seat your mom and your dad across the table from you,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s a little bit of Bob\u2019s question. There have been some perks to having your mom and dad raise you. I\u2019m going to give you a chance to give them both a tribute here, speaking to them in first person. So, you address them\u2014\u201cMom\/Dad, I want to thank you for\u2026.\u201d\u00a0 Can you do that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I can. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMom and Dad, I want to thank you for getting married in 1968 and staying married. As a young married man, that is an example that I always aspire to. I want to thank you for always being present. You were there, physically\u2014you made time for me. You made my life easy, growing up. You got me from Point A to Point B, and you maintained a home that was stable in the midst of a pretty crazy ministry schedule. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I want to thank you for continuing to get better as parents as you get older. People can mail it in\u2014parenting is not easy. I am learning this, and I am sure I will continue to learn as time goes on. Now, in your late 60\u2019s, you are still pouring yourself into figuring out how to be better parents all the time. You haven\u2019t quit. You haven\u2019t given up, and that is an example for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I want to thank you for the biblical basis that you gave for everything. I know we\u2019ve had our differences on lots of things, but I cannot down-play the value of a biblical foundation in teaching, and in standards, and in understanding the Scripture, and in shaping a mindset that way because it has been formative for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd last, I want to thank you for teaching me to love reading and writing. You modeled it. You brought it into our home, and you engaged in it with me. It has been one of the greatest sources of enjoyment; and now, something that I can hopefully bless other people with\u2014and that is all credit to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.94M"],"filesize_raw":["27204130"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303377.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303377.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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the pastor has a good relationship with God, then his children must as well. Not necessarily. Barnabas Piper talks about the spiritual challenges he faced growing up as the son of John Piper.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-05.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Barnabas Piper remembers growing up as a pastor\u2019s kid and realizing that he had never really made his faith his own. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I served in church\u2014I loved serving with youth. At one level, I did have a passion for serving the Lord; but I had never actually really found a connection to Christ that was that kind of thing that you go, \u201cIf all else fails, I know exactly who Jesus is and He\u2019s real and I can <em>never<\/em> doubt that.\u201d\u00a0 I only had this sort of answer-based faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, February 5<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll talk to Barnabas Piper today about his move from shaky faith to solid faith. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I remember one of the things that almost kept <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> from ever happening\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014was that you had six kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We had the conversation\u2014because when we started <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, your oldest child was 17 years old;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014your youngest was seven. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They were all in between there, and you were concerned that being on radio and talking about marriage and family\u2014there\u2019d be some potential blow-back for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I was married to a woman who felt even stronger about that than I did and was really concerned about losing our anonymity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you decided to go ahead and launch a radio program?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I could never have guessed that doing that would have had a cost to it\u2014and I don\u2019t mean that altogether negatively\u2014but a weight to it\u2014to my children that I could never have understood without doing it. That\u2019s part of why I enjoyed your book, Barnabas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe guest on the program today is Barnabas Piper. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe has written a book called <em>The Pastor\u2019s Kid<\/em>, and it\u2019s subtitled <em>Finding Your Own Faith<\/em>\u2014and I think the key word here is\u2014<em>and Your Identity<\/em>. Barnabas, you talk, at the beginning of your book, about assumptions that people make about PK\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014about preachers\u2019 kids. Quickly go through those assumptions and kind of help us understand how pastors\u2019 kids think about themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>These are common across pastors\u2019 kids from large churches, small churches, et cetera. I mean, it\u2019s\u2014in having a chance to talk to as many as I did, this is one of the things that stood out to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The first main assumption is that the pastor\u2019s kid has a good relationship with God. Obviously, our parents are the spiritual leaders of the church. Later in the book, I write about some things that I think are wrong with how people view the pastor and putting him on too high of a pedestal\u2014but that\u2019s a separate issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the blow-back of that is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014 that if the pastor has that kind of relationship with God, then, his kids must as well\u2014not giving us the room to be normal children \/ normal teenagers\u2014who have a lot of questions, who don\u2019t know the answers to everything, and who are growing in a relationship with God, or in some cases, we don\u2019t have one at all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you feel like you had to put on a mask and act a certain way because you were a pastor\u2019s kid and misrepresent what was really going on in your heart and life as you were growing up?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>For me, it wasn\u2019t an active misrepresentation. It was more just deep down inside I did not know what I believed, but I knew all the right answers. So, it\u2019s almost as if I <em>thought <\/em>I believed something that <em>wasn\u2019t<\/em> really <em>alive <\/em>in me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know there are pastors\u2019 kids who faked it, and I know there are some pastors\u2019 kids who just flat-out rebel. For me, it was the identity piece. I did not have a strong identity in Christ because I only knew the answers. I didn\u2019t have this <em>living faith<\/em> in me through a personal relationship with Christ in the same way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your dad is John Piper. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can see how someone would go, \u201cOh, man, he is such a theologian \/ such a man of God\u201d; but I guess I have to ask you the question, \u201cWhy do you think people expect the kids to be other than just kids?\u201d\u2014I mean, normal kids who have the same sin nature, the same selfishness, the same sibling rivalry \/ struggles that other kids have. Is it our desire for having somebody\u2014to put somebody on a pedestal and hoping their marriage and their family will all be perfect?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>That\u2019s a really <em>tough<\/em> question to answer. I think\u2014I do think it stems from\u2014I don\u2019t know why people view pastors this way\u2014but there is a sense that the pastor is morally superior \/ theologically superior\u2014he has a connection to God that normal people don't have. And it\u2019s almost as if that is a genetic thing that gets passed down to kids. So, I am genetically predisposed to a closer relationship with God than other people\u2014is the way that it plays. Obviously, that is not true. Nobody would <em>express<\/em> it in those words, but that\u2019s the way it feels: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBecause you share a genetic code with John Piper,\u201d\u2014or with any pastor\u2014\u201cyou are, therefore, closer to God.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You actually use a secular illustration about a baseball player, who played for the Twins, who was your idol\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014as a way of illustrating this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>So, growing up\u2014so, I grew up in Minneapolis, Minnesota. We were just a few blocks from the Metrodome, where they did win two World Series Championships with Kirby Puckett. He was\u2014he was short and stout. I was short and stout, as a kid. I loved baseball. He played the game with just this exuberance. So, me, as a fan\u2014I looked at him and said: \u201cHe plays the game the right way. He\u2019s awesome at baseball.\u201d\u00a0 I just projected that onto all of his life\u2014everything was great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it comes out, after he retires, that he had been accused of assaulting a woman in a bar and just sort of had this sorted history of misbehavior. It was like a sucker punch because I thought he had everything together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, looking back on it, the problem was that I set the wrong expectation for him. I did not think of him as just as prone to make mistakes as any other person\u2014just as prone to make bad decisions. I assumed that, since he was great at one thing, he would be great at everything. That\u2019s the way that people often view the pastor\u2019s family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What\u2019s another assumption that people make about PK\u2019s?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>They think that we have a great relationship with our family because\u2014and it stems directly from: \u201cThey\u2019re closer to God. Therefore, they must be close to one another.\u201d\u00a0 But any pastor\u2019s family will tell you that they go through the exact same tensions as any other family\u2014sibling rivalries, rebellion against parents, disobedience\u2014because we are all born sinners. You pack us all into a house\u2014I mean, you had six kids\u2014there is going to be a <em>whole<\/em> lot of conflict in a house with two parents and six kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, yes, there was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>And so, I mean, I remember\u2014when I was in high school, talking to a youth leader of mine, and talking about the tensions I was having with my mom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mom and I butted heads a lot when I was in high school. She\u2019s a very strong lady, and I was a very strong-willed and not very respectful teenage boy. She was not going to take that nonsense from me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went in and didn\u2019t get the kind of response that I hoped to get\u2014not that I expected him to side with me, but it felt as if he was almost surprised that our family would be butting heads this way because we were the pastor\u2019s family. And that\u2014it just sort of shut the conversation down because, now, I felt like, \u201cI can\u2019t really talk to him about this because I\u2019m expected to not have normal tensions with parents.\u201d\u00a0 That kind of goes across the board\u2014even today, I think my dad and mom are under great pressure to have perfect relationships with their kids, now that we\u2019re grown\u2014and relationships with parents\u2014they\u2019re not always perfect. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As you talked with other PK\u2019s, who are now in their 20\u2019s and 30\u2019s, were they saying that their relationship with their parents still has strain to it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Absolutely. And some of that is on the parents because pastors are so tied into their ministry\u2014this is their life. They devote their lives to this\u2014it\u2019s their calling. If a child goes a different route\u2014and I don\u2019t mean walking away from the Lord\u2014I mean, maybe a different expression of faith in the Lord or a different occupation as opposed to ministry in some cases\u2014that can create tension. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr in some cases, it\u2019s a theological distinctive. One person goes a more reformed direction while another person goes a more Arminian direction, and they still have those. Then, other times, it\u2019s the personality clash that\u2019s inevitable in families. People fight because people don\u2019t always get along. I mean, I don\u2019t think there is a deeper explanation than that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, I\u2019m just sitting here, thinking about the fact that a pastor\u2014a part of his vocation is to read\/study the Scriptures deeply\u2014to interpret, to make sense, to draw conclusions, to draw principles. You would think, \u201cWell, somebody who does that as many hours as your dad did it would have a handle on how to live out their faith better than the guy who reads his Bible 30 minutes in the morning, three times a week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the expectation\u2014what\u2019s wrong with that expectation that somebody, who is really digging deep into the Scriptures, is going to have a better handle on life?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Well, I think\u2014let me turn the comparison a little bit\u2014and let\u2019s compare different pastors. If you assume that every pastor is devoting their life to Scripture and studying it in the same way, you\u2019d think they would all have a better handle on it. But pastors don\u2019t all agree on how to do things because Scripture is not easy to interpret. It can be interpreted different ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFiguring out what it looks like to honor Jesus with your life can have different flavors to it. Some people are very, very strict; and some people take things with the more open hand. Both of them feel like, \u201cI\u2019m living the life that honors Jesus\u201d; and both of them are pastors. The theme that has to happen is grace\u2014grace to forgive \/ grace to have the freedom to come at Jesus from a different place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPastors\u2019 kids are not starting at the same place their parents are. So, we need grace to come at it in that way, and we need that grace from the church\u2014the grace of giving us some space to make mistakes and to encounter God in a different way and to not always encounter Him the right way. I\u2019m not saying that pastors\u2019 kids get it right. I am saying we need the <em>room<\/em> to figure out how to encounter Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you read your Old Testament. Godly kings and priests had ungodly offspring. So, the family dynamics, throughout the Old Testament, are not family dynamics where you tap into some spiritual vein and everybody just runs in the same direction; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Right. I mean, you look at say David and Solomon. Before Solomon went astray, he was a very godly person\u2014he built the Temple\u2014and he was dynamically different than his father. <br><br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>And that\u2019s normal. The apple does not always fall close to the tree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, it doesn\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd what I want to talk about is\u2014when your apple hit the ground,\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014what happened?\u2014because you had a crisis where that crisis ultimately helped you determine your spiritual address \/ your spiritual identity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes; absolutely. Growing up, I came into college with a base understanding of the Bible, and theology, and faith that I didn\u2019t realize was sort of abnormally robust because that was the nature of the home I grew up in and the church I grew up in. So, I go into my first Bible class at Wheaton. I realize there are people here who don\u2019t know the characters of the Old Testament. They can\u2019t list the 66 books of the Bible\u2014I mean\u2014those kinds of things that I had known since I was five. That gave me a sense of perceived identity because: \u201cI\u2019m a believer. I know these things. I know all the right answers.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt one level, I did have a passion for serving the Lord. I served in church\u2014I loved serving with youth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI loved Jesus; but I had never actually really found a connection to Christ that was that kind of thing that you go, \u201cIf all else fails, I know exactly who Jesus is and He\u2019s real and I can <em>never<\/em> doubt that.\u201d\u00a0 I only had this sort of answer-based faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I got out of college, got married, had a couple daughters, and was working in publishing. Throughout all of this\u2014even dating back to my childhood\u2014there was this pocket of my life that I had never given over to the Lord\u2014just these sort of doubts, and sins, and things that I just held onto. It\u2019s kind of like the old story of the little white lie that grows bigger, and bigger, and bigger\u2014it was like that. It was this streak of dishonesty, and it ended up costing me my job. My wife had no idea. She thought I was wonderful until I have to go home and say, \u201cHey, I don\u2019t have a job anymore,\u201d and then explain why, and explain that it was all my fault, and there were things she didn\u2019t know\u2014I hadn\u2019t told her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that point, I was working for a man who was an elder at our church. There was a church involvement here, which, providentially, was really, really good for me. At the time, I was really, really not happy with that because, at that point, I was faced with the decision of: \u201cI can do the hard work\u2014the incredibly painful work of apology, of repentance, and of restoration.\u201d\u00a0 I mean, it\u2019s like post-surgery rehab. You have to rebuild everything and hope, against hope, that your spouse can trust you again. Or \u201cI can just quit.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was finally kind of on the outside of faith, looking in, saying: \u201cIs this worth it or not?\u00a0 Do those answers mean anything?\u201d\u00a0 What ended up happening\u2014and this is not any credit to me \/ this is the way that Christ shows up\u2014is the answers all just kind of faded away. For the first time, I saw what it means to need grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had always been able to explain what it meant to be a sinner\u2014being born in sin, to have sinned, to have\u2014\u201cFor all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God,\u201d\u2014I mean, I could quote the whole Roman\u2019s Road to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor the first time, I looked at myself; and I said, \u201cI have no hope outside of grace.\u201d\u00a0 That was when I began to understand exactly what all those answers meant\u2014who Jesus really is \/ what is the significance of somebody who never made the mistakes I did dying on the cross for me\u2014all of the gospel, that I believed, became meaningful. Yes, all of that restoration work was worth it. It has not been a terribly easy road; but that was when, all of a sudden, faith became real. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSince that time, I have finally been able to say: \u201cThis is my faith. This is the faith that I have in Christ. This is the interaction I have with God \/ this is why I need His Word,\u201d\u2014 aside from\u2014\u201cI know I\u2019m supposed to do this,\u201d or \u201cI know the right answers.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is that when you got the tattoo on your arm?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>This was after the fact. I have a tattoo on my arm that says: \u201cI believe. Help my unbelief.\u201d\u00a0 That was several years later, kind of looking back on it and realizing, \u201cThat is the nature of faith\u2014is, if you have encountered Jesus, there is always \u2018I believe,\u2019\u2014and that does not go anywhere\u2014but there is always a battle against unbelief\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>\u2014whether it\u2019s in doubt or whether it\u2019s in disobedience or questions. Those are sort of the bookends of faith in one sense\u2014is \u201cI believe,\u201d\u2014and that doesn\u2019t go anywhere\u2014and \u201cHelp my unbelief,\u201d which is the constant need. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A statement that God used in my life to create the same kind of spiritual awakening\u2014a determination of spiritual identity, as you described it\u2014occurred when I was 20 years old at the University of Arkansas. There was a statement made by a preacher from Brooklyn, who was preaching in the Ozarks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere is what he said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014see if you can resonate with this. I\u2019ll say it twice\u2014the first time pretty quickly. He said: \u201cI spent a long time trying to come to grips with my doubts when, suddenly, I realized I\u2019d better come to grips with what I believe. I have since moved from the agony of questions that I cannot answer to the reality of answers that I cannot escape. And it\u2019s a great relief.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I\u2019ll give this to you again. This was Tom Skinner who said this: \u201cI spent a long time trying to come to grips with my doubts when, suddenly, I realized I\u2019ve got to come to grips with what I believe. I have since moved from the agony of questions that I still can\u2019t answer to the reality of answers that are inescapable. And it\u2019s a great relief.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the description of peace\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because as you confronted Jesus Christ, you realized He loves you as you are. You didn\u2019t have to be John Piper\u2019s son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re Barnabas. You\u2019ve been given an incredible gift, and you have encountered Christ, and He has changed your life from the inside out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>And the thing that I <em>most needed<\/em>, at that point, was to realize that my identity in Christ had nothing to do with my last name because I was at a point where I had ruined whatever significance my last name brought me, at that point. I felt like I had ruined\u2014and that was when Christ came in. So, there was no \u201cJesus <em>and<\/em>\u2026.\u201d\u2014it was \u201cJesus.\u201d There was nothing else because everything else was on the rocks, at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the phrase you just said that wraps it up\u2014it\u2019s not focusing on the doubts. It\u2019s when Jesus is there\u2014there is no denying it \/ there is no doubting it. Everything else will tug, and pull, and be a struggle\u2014sure\u2014but that doesn\u2019t change, and it doesn\u2019t go away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I am just curious\u2014there had to be some perks of being a PK. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, what\u2014and not just a John Piper son PK, but I would think every PK has some things\u2014that they look back on and go, \u201cWell, I did get this, or this, or this.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What are those things?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>For me, as challenging as things were, I loved the church. I loved the big- picture church, but I loved being in church. The majority of my community and relationships came through church. I love the familial aspect of it. <br><br>Longer term\u2014and this is true for a lot of PK\u2019s\u2014is all of that biblical knowledge you get\u2014the raw material of biblical truth have enormous value, even if you have no idea what to do with them, because God can show you what to do with them later on; but when you find out later that you learned a whole bunch of stuff that you didn\u2019t even realize you were learning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have been through just about anything with the church that a person can be through\u2014both at working at one and growing up in one\u2014and I love the church now. A lot of that comes because as a pastor\u2019s kid\u2014you get to see all of the ups and downs of the church. You get to see the benefit that it brings. You get to see the blessing that it brings on people. But you also get to see the hardships, and you get to see people learn how to sort through them. <br><br><strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI got to watch my parents walk through some very hard things at church, which could have made me dislike the church; but instead, it made me go: \u201cIt\u2019s worth it. You stick it out for this.\u201d\u00a0 Then, there is just this sense of pastors\u2019 kids are in unique position to serve in the church because they basically had an apprenticeship. They got to watch what it takes to serve\u2014the difficulties and the blessings\u2014they get to see all the different kinds of people in the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know, when people come out of seminary and head into ministry, they are often shocked by just how difficult the people of the church are. [Laughter]\u00a0 Well, that\u2019s what happens when you put a bunch of sinners in one room; but a pastor\u2019s kids will have <em>seen <\/em>their parents walk through all of that\u2014so it\u2019s going to be less shocking. I\u2019m sure that the shock of firsthand experience is there; but they\u2019re in a position, where they go: \u201cOh, I know this lady\u2014there was a lady just like her at my church,\u201d \u201cI know that couple\u2014I\u2019ve seen them.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is just this ongoing sense of\u2014pastors\u2019 kids are uniquely set up to be a blessing to the church, whether it\u2019s vocational ministry or just being involved in it because they understand the challenges of other pastors too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey\u2014I feel like I\u2019m in a position to support people in ministry, maybe, in a different way than a lot of lay people are because I just intuitively know what they are facing on an average Sunday, or on an average Wednesday, or whatever the case may be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I shouldn\u2019t do this, but I\u2019m going to ask Bob to tell about your book\u2014and that\u2019s not what I shouldn\u2019t do, by the way. We need to tell people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We should do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014about the book, but I\u2019ve got one more thing I want you to do before we are done here that\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014it just seems right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. We do have copies of Barnabas\u2019 book. It\u2019s called <em>The Pastor\u2019s Kid<\/em>, and they are available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Whether you are a pastor\u2019s kid, know somebody who is, or just would like to understand a little bit about what it\u2019s like to grow up in a pastor\u2019s home\u2014maybe there is a friend of yours that you\u2019ll understand better as a result of reading a book like this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ll find information about the book, <em>The Pastor\u2019s Kid<\/em>, available. You can order it from us, online; or if you would prefer, you can call us to order. So, again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The toll-free number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. That\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd quickly, I want to let folks know, Dennis, about next week\u2014National Marriage Week. We are celebrating, here at FamilyLife, in a big way. We\u2019re going to do a lot of that celebrating via social media. So, if you are not yet a friend of ours on Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or if you\u2019re not following us on Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, let me encourage you to connect with us via social media. We\u2019ll have some fun things happening next week and some good opportunities for you to make some special Valentine\u2019s Day plans and build into your marriage relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, again, let me encourage you to connect with us via social media. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can do that by going to FamilyLifeToday.com and scrolling all the way down to the bottom of the page. You\u2019ll see the icons there for Facebook and Twitter. Just click on those. Or, if you\u2019re an experienced user, you can go to Facebook and search for us, <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, or follow us on Twitter, @FamilyLifeToday. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s been a treat to have Barnabas Piper with us. I have concluded many a broadcast by turning to the guest and saying, \u201cI want to seat your mom and your dad across the table from you,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s a little bit of Bob\u2019s question. There have been some perks to having your mom and dad raise you. I\u2019m going to give you a chance to give them both a tribute here, speaking to them in first person. So, you address them\u2014\u201cMom\/Dad, I want to thank you for\u2026.\u201d\u00a0 Can you do that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I can. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMom and Dad, I want to thank you for getting married in 1968 and staying married. As a young married man, that is an example that I always aspire to. I want to thank you for always being present. You were there, physically\u2014you made time for me. You made my life easy, growing up. You got me from Point A to Point B, and you maintained a home that was stable in the midst of a pretty crazy ministry schedule. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I want to thank you for continuing to get better as parents as you get older. People can mail it in\u2014parenting is not easy. I am learning this, and I am sure I will continue to learn as time goes on. Now, in your late 60\u2019s, you are still pouring yourself into figuring out how to be better parents all the time. You haven\u2019t quit. You haven\u2019t given up, and that is an example for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I want to thank you for the biblical basis that you gave for everything. I know we\u2019ve had our differences on lots of things, but I cannot down-play the value of a biblical foundation in teaching, and in standards, and in understanding the Scripture, and in shaping a mindset that way because it has been formative for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd last, I want to thank you for teaching me to love reading and writing. You modeled it. You brought it into our home, and you engaged in it with me. It has been one of the greatest sources of enjoyment; and now, something that I can hopefully bless other people with\u2014and that is all credit to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303377","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303377"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303377"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303377"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303377"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303377"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303377"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303377"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}