{"id":303375,"date":"2015-02-04T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2015-02-04T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/whats-with-the-pk\/"},"modified":"2015-02-04T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2015-02-04T17:00:00","slug":"whats-with-the-pk","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whats-with-the-pk\/","title":{"rendered":"What&#8217;s with the PK?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Pastors&#8217; kids are just like other kids. But the environment they&#8217;re in is more intense. Barnabas Piper, talks about the pressure and challenges he&#8217;s experienced being a pastor&#8217;s kid.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-04.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"26.03M","filesize_raw":"27292717","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2833,2806],"tags":[5605,5603,5604],"podcast_series":[8063],"cwp_profile":[9376],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303375","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-godly-legacy","category-spiritual-development","tag-ministry-families","tag-pastor-kids","tag-preacher-kids","podcast_series-the-pastors-kid","cwp_profile-barnabas-piper","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303375\/whats-with-the-pk","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303375\/whats-with-the-pk","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"S5J85Seeq2\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whats-with-the-pk\/\">What&#8217;s with the PK?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whats-with-the-pk\/embed\/#?secret=S5J85Seeq2\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;What&#8217;s with the PK?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"S5J85Seeq2\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-04.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-04.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you are a PK\u2014a preacher\u2019s kid\u2014sometimes, you wonder, \u201cWhich does dad love more\u2014me or the ministry?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I know of some pastors who have stepped out of the ministry because of the effect it was having on their family. I have the utmost respect for that decision. I think that is a remarkable sense of priority. I know other pastors whose families have fallen apart because they prioritized ministry over their kids. I have a lot less respect for that decision. It is a burden on the family\u2014the amounts of pressure that the pastor bears. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We have a PK joining us today\u2014a preacher\u2019s kid\u2014with insights on what it\u2019s like to grow up in a pastor\u2019s home. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks for joining us. When I was growing up, there was a TV show called <em>What\u2019s My Line?<\/em> Do you remember <em>What\u2019s My Line?<\/em>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They\u2019d bring out somebody, and the\u2014sometimes, the panel had to be blindfolded because the person they brought out was famous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, we\u2019re going to blindfold radio listeners?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re going to blindfold our radio listeners because we have a pastor\u2019s son joining us\u2014but we\u2019re not going to say who the pastor is or who the son is\u2014at least, not right away; right?\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019re just going to use his middle name. Somebody is going to think they are going to Google<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> it, and they are going to figure it out\u2014but I\u2019m just going to welcome him by the name of William. William, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Easy for you to say. It\u2019s great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is easy for me to say. William is married to his wife Lesley since 2005. They have two children and live near Nashville. A bunch of people go, \u201cI know who that is.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI think I know,\u201d\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cI think I know who that is.\u201d\u00a0 But William has written a book about being a pastor\u2019s kid. You begin the book, William, by talking about a pressure cooker. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tExplain why you compare being a PK to a pressure cooker. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>That example comes from the fact that PK\u2019s are made of the same ingredients as any other kid is\u2014you know, we are just normal people. When food is cooked in a pressure cooker\u2014it\u2019s all the same ingredients\u2014you throw a pot roast in there, and you throw the carrots in there. You throw the potatoes in there\u2014whatever it is\u2014but the steam pressure makes it cook at a higher temperature. So, it cooks faster. There is this high-pressure\/high-temperature environment. Everything is intensified. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is what it is like to be a pastor\u2019s kid in the church environment. You\u2019re this normal person\u2014made up of normal people stuff\u2014in this intense, high-pressure environment because of the expectations \/ because of the scrutiny that is placed on you, as pastor\u2019s kid. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you remember when it first dawned on you that there was something different about you than the other kids that you were going to church with?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I remember instances\u2014going all the way back to kindergarten, first, and second grade\u2014when I noticed that I was treated differently. At that age, you don\u2019t have the self-awareness to think this sort of expansive \u201cI live a different life.\u201d\u00a0 But I mean\u2014I remember being expected to answer the Bible trivia questions that other kids couldn\u2019t answer \/ being expected to not run in church when all of my friends were running in church. I mean\u2014those little things that stand out in your mind when you are a small child, and it just sort of escalated as time went along. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And so, how long were you in the cooker?\u00a0 I\u2019m picturing my mom\u2019s pressure cooker, Bob. I don\u2019t know if your mom had one. It had this little metal top you\u2019d put on it that kept the steam in to a certain degree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How long were you in the pot?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Well, I was born three years after my dad became a pastor; and then, he retired on my 30<sup>th<\/sup> birthday. So, my entire life\u2014up to the age of 30\u2014was as a pastor\u2019s kid. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you would say\u2014even after you went to college \/ even after you were out of the home, got married, started your own family\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you\u2019re still in the pressure cooker?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. Especially, every time I go home, but\u2014and here is a hint as to who my dad is\u2014he\u2019s more well-known than just a pastor of a local congregation. So, when I left and went to college, the awareness of me went with me. People still knew who I was, and I still lived under those expectations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We should probably go ahead and tell the listeners; don\u2019t you think?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, I think we need to go a little bit deeper here. You\u2014in writing your book\u2014which we\u2019ll share the name of it in a minute\u2014that will keep people from Googling it and finding out who you are ahead of time. You interviewed 40 PK\u2019s\u2014both men and women?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes, at least. I mean, it was 40 sort of formal interviews, at least; and then, just dozens of conversations I had over the years with pastors\u2019 kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Was there a single theme that you heard that just resonated with you as a young man in the cooker?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I interviewed them because I wanted to know if my experience was normative or if I was crazy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because I had this sense that I wanted to write something, but I didn\u2019t want to misrepresent it. I was basically just looking for: \u201cDid they share an experience with me?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was almost as if they had the teacher\u2019s answer key and were feeding answers back to me, in terms of certain phrases \/ certain experiences that they gave in terms of: \u201cEverybody is watching me,\u201d \u201cI was expected to live to a higher standard.\u201d There were some people who had very, very difficult experiences, where their parents made life very hard on them. There were others whose parents were great, but they still felt it\u2014just in the pressure of the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut those things\u2014the expectations and the scrutiny\u2014and then, the third thing is difficulty finding your own spiritual identity because God is just ubiquitous when you\u2019re a pastor\u2019s kid\u2014He\u2019s dad\u2019s job. He\u2019s all around you all the time. He\u2019s talked about at the dinner table. You\u2019re at church every Sunday, but there is not a personal connection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinding that spiritual identity and relationship with Christ is the third big thing that PK\u2019s struggle with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s one of the things I wanted to ask you about because I have counseled and talked with and interacted with a number of PK\u2019s and MK\u2019s\u2014missionary kids. One of the interesting things they\u2019ve talked about is being in the shadow\u2014which can affect your identity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How much did you feel like you were in your dad\u2019s shadow and didn\u2019t know who you were, as a follower of Christ?\u00a0 And here is the thing\u2014I now get it. Having had a number of these MK\u2019s and PK\u2019s tell me this, I fully get it now; but go ahead and share it with our listeners how you felt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I wouldn\u2019t have put it in those terms just because I don\u2019t think I was that aware of it until later on; but in retrospect, I would say, \u201cBeing in the shadow of my dad and his very defined, well-expressed belief in and relationship with God caused me a great amount of difficulty\u2014not because he did anything wrong\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but because it wasn\u2019t my own.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t something that I would\u2019ve expressed in the same way he did, and it wasn\u2019t an experience of me coming to Christ in just an \u201cI\u2019ve met Jesus in a personal way.\u201d\u00a0 It was \u201cI know of Jesus because I just\u2014that\u2019s what pastors\u2019 kids do.\u201d\u00a0 We know everything about Jesus. We can answer <em>all<\/em> the questions. We can answer the questions about the questions, but there is not a sense of \u201cI know what I believe.\u201d\u00a0 There is only a sense of \u201cI know what I know.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, for me, it wasn\u2019t until later on\u2014when through a series of sort of crisis situations\u2014that I came, face to face, with what my need for grace was \/ what grace really is\u00a0 and who Jesus is\u2014and realized, \u201cI can come to Him as <em>me<\/em> instead of just in the terms that my dad believes in Him.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Instead of being the son\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014of John Piper. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you think\u2014and we\u2019ll just let that sink in here. We\u2019ll call you Barnabas now that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d kept calling me William, I probably wouldn\u2019t have answered. I would have gotten confused. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you think that the scrutiny and the pressure, for you, was intensified because your dad\u2019s written two dozen books and he\u2019s well-known all around the world?\u00a0 I mean, he\u2019s not just the pastor of the little church down the street that\u2019s got 200 people coming to it\u2014he\u2019s a big deal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I think it was intensified after I left home for that reason. I think, prior to leaving home\u2014for a couple things. One is just the growth of his ministry coincided with me kind of coming of age. Through my elementary and junior high years, he was beginning to be known; but he was not any sort of really, really well-known, international figure\u2014he was a pastor and an author. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The other factor is that every pastor\u2019s kid, in the context of their congregation, feels similar things. It can be a church of a 100, or it can be a church of 10,000. In that congregation, there is the same sense of: \u201cPeople are watching. I\u2019m being held to a standard,\u201d et cetera. For me\u2014once I left home, I began to feel the rest of that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because, then, on the college campus that I went to\u2014you know, I went to Wheaton College\u2014people there knew who my dad was. So, there was this sense of people there expected me to be somebody because my last name is Piper. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I got into Christian publishing. People there are expecting me to be somebody. You know, my family\u2014we would go to church. People there expect me to be somebody, even though it\u2019s a church that\u2019s 400 miles away from Minneapolis\u2014those kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, it\u2019s really interesting to hear you talk about this because here\u2014your father is a man who has been used by God\u2014and your mom too\u2014to minister to a lot of people, locally, in the Minneapolis\/St. Paul area but, also, nationwide. You don\u2019t think of the ministry being a cross that the kids have to carry\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>It\u2019s true. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014but it is!\u00a0 It\u2019s almost as though your father\u2019s success \/ his depth of ministry is a unique burden for you, as a young man\u2014that not many in the country can even begin to fathom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes, and I think that\u2019s true for every pastor, scalable to size. One of the things I say, very early on, in the book is that pastors are called into ministry. Most pastors go into ministry with their wives feeling the same call\u2014they are in tandem. They\u2019ve talked through this, and they are going into it together. Their children\u2014not called into ministry\u2014they are just along for the ride. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>And so, the byproduct of the ministry is what you just described\u2014it\u2019s some of those pressures. Only each individual pastor can know how they have to deal with that in their own family. I know of some pastors who have stepped out of the ministry because of the effect it was having on their family. I have the utmost respect for that decision. I think that is a remarkable sense of priority. I know other pastors whose families have fallen apart because they prioritized ministry over their kids. I have a lot less respect for that decision. But it is a burden on the family\u2014the amounts of pressure that the pastor bears. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you remember a time, as a teenager or preteen, when you thought to yourself, \u201cI wish my dad wasn\u2019t a pastor\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I grew up in Phillips neighborhood in south Minneapolis. It\u2019s a pretty diverse \/ pretty rough neighborhood. Just like any kid, I would take my bike out of the garage; and I would go ride around the neighborhood, just having fun. I must have been\u2014I couldn\u2019t have been any older than ten years old or right around then. I was riding around, and I ran into a group of neighborhood boys who I didn\u2019t know. They were from a different part of the neighborhood. They stole my bike\u2014knocked me off the bike, laughing, jumped on it, rode away. I was about three blocks from home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI run home crying and I talked to my dad about this. He used that as lesson to me on suffering for the sake of the gospel\u2014meaning: \u201cWe live in this neighborhood because it is where we are called to live. So, hard things happen as part of that calling.\u201d\u00a0 My feeling, of course, as a ten year old, is: \u201cI do not care!\u00a0 I want my bike back.\u201d The pastor is looking at this from a different perspective, going: \u201cThere\u2019s a lesson to be taught here. There is a calling here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe wasn\u2019t wrong, but it didn\u2019t feel right to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Truthfully, I read that\u2014and I guess I got a little emotional because I was very intentional with my kids about teaching things that occurred in everyday life. There is certainly a good use for that, and we have to teach our children as we walk by the way\u2014Deuteronomy 6 talks about that. But the lesson here is: \u201cSometimes, our kids\u2014as you just well described\u2014need a hug and need to hear, \u2018I\u2019m sorry. Now, let\u2019s go see if we can find those guys,\u2019\u201d\u2014just like you said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut for a pastor, that\u2019s almost antithetical. I don\u2019t mean that they shouldn\u2019t be human, in terms of being empathetic, because there are pastors, who are listening to our broadcast, right now, who are\u2014but we\u2019re all about teaching \/ we\u2019re all about lessons. We\u2019re all about passing on truth and, certainly, to our own children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we\u2019ve all heard the stories of PK\u2019s, who grow up in homes where, for whatever reason, those kids get to their independence and they go: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 This was for the birds. I\u2019m going to have a different kind of life going forward.\u201d\u00a0 You have to wonder how many of those dads go: \u201cReally? I gave my life to the gospel so that my kids could burn out on it and walk away?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>There is no single reason why that happens, but I think the pressure cooker aspect of things is part of it because a higher percentage of pastors\u2019 kids, according to Barna Research\u2014a higher percentage of pastors\u2019 kids don\u2019t leave than any other kid. It\u2019s about the same rate; but I would say, \u201cIt is more noticeable when it\u2019s a pastor\u2019s kid because it\u2019s the pastor\u2019s kid.\u201d\u00a0 People expect the pastor\u2019s kid to get it <em>right<\/em>\u2014not to leave. So, when whatever percent leave, then, it\u2019s noticeable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it is that pressure\u2014and it is the sense that because of that pressure\u2014it forces strong reactions. There\u2019s either\u2014on the one hand, this sort of: \u201cI\u2019m going to play this game.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou become\u2014and that was my reaction\u2014I didn\u2019t really walk away from the church, but you learn how to fake it really well. You may not even realize you are faking it. But then, you\u2019ve got the pastors\u2019 kids on the other side\u2014who look at it and go: \u201cI\u2019m not playing that game. I\u2019m done with it. I\u2019m washing my hands of this.\u201d As soon as they can, they are out the door\u2014it might be at 15, it might be at 16, it might be 20\u2014and they are just done with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there is a lot more to this story, but I\u2019m going to jump process. I\u2019m going to take you all the way to Chapter 9 in your book\u2014\u201cSeven Rules for When You Meet a PK.\u201d I just want you to go through those because we\u2019ve got a lot of people who go to church, who are listening to our broadcast\u2014they aren\u2019t a pastor \/ they don\u2019t have PK\u2019s\u2014but they are relating to PK\u2019s and to pastors. These seven rules\u2014I think will be helpful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Alright; rule number one: \u201cDo not ask us, \u2018What is it like to be the son or daughter of\u2026?\u2019\u201d\u2014in my case, John Piper. Now, I think that might be more particular to the son or daughter of somebody who\u2019s well-known. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think pastors\u2019 kids, in any context, get that: \u201cWhat\u2019s it like to be the pastor\u2019s kid?\u00a0 What\u2019s it like to be this or that?\u201d\u00a0 We have no idea how to answer that question. We only have one set of parents. So, that\u2019s a question we honestly cannot answer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRule number two: \u201cDo not quote our dads to us.\u201d [Laughter]\u00a0 I\u2019m just going to let that one stand because I\u2019m sure any child of any parent in any profession does not want to have their parent\u2019s words put in their face as a corrective, or as a joke, or as anything else\u2014just let it be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber three: \u201cDo not ask us anything personal you would not ask of anyone else.\u201d\u00a0 That, I think, is one of the most applicable things to <em>any member<\/em> of a church because it\u2019s one of the ones that people do with the best intention and having no idea that is actually piling on the pastor\u2019s kid. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I mean by that is\u2014there is this awareness of the pastor\u2019s kid\u2019s life. People used to come up to me and ask me about how school was going, and how my Friday night football game went, and my prom date, and what college I had selected, and those kinds of things\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014things that they would not have known about any of my peers. It gives this sense of: \u201cPeople are in my business,\u201d and it is not done out of a malicious heart. People are genuine and caring, but they don\u2019t realize that being a little too genuine and caring\u2014it piles up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You are sitting there, thinking, \u201cWhat else do they\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cknow about my life?!\u00a0 I don\u2019t have any privacy at all.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>And it\u2019s the cumulative effect of it\u2014in the sense that, if only one person did that, you\u2019d forget it. But if ten people on a Sunday do that, then, you just look around and go: \u201cEverybody\u2019s watching me. They all know stuff.\u201d\u00a0 <br><br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you make a point in your book\u2014I forget exactly how you say it\u2014but you said, \u201cThere are a lot of people who know of me and know a little bit about me, but they really don\u2019t know me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Exactly. Yes, there\u2019s that distinct differentiation between those friends who I have a trust relationship with. They don\u2019t think of me as the son of anybody. They think of me as Barnabas, and they are my friend. I can confide in them and vice versa. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if they came up and asked me about something personal, that is because we are sharing in that element of life. If somebody, who I don\u2019t know very well does, then, it\u2019s just they know something of me because of whatever platform I share with my dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber four: \u201cDo not ask us anything about our dads\u2019 positions on anything.\u201d [Laughter]\u00a0 One of the things that pastors\u2019 kids\u2014and I think this is probably true for just religious leaders in general\u2014the children of religious leaders\u2014we are expected to walk in lock-step with our parents on everything\u2014that could be political positions, theological positions, lifestyle positions\u2014whatever the case may be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd just like you, the listener, are not in lock-step with your parents on everything\u2014and I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve butted heads with them about something\u2014we do the same thing. We ought to have the freedom to do the same thing\u2014to form our own opinions, obviously, under the banner of what is biblical, what it is true, what\u2019s honoring to Christ. But whether it\u2019s political, theological, lifestyle, or anything else\u2014we need to have the freedom to develop our own identity and opinions.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe more we get asked about what our dad thinks about something, the less freedom we have to differ from that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, number five: \u201cDo not assume you can gain audience with the pastor through us.\u201d\u00a0 He has an assistant for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>People tried to do that with you?!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Absolutely: \u201cHey, would you give this to your dad?\u00a0 Hey, would you let your dad know\u2026?\u00a0 Do you think your dad would be willing to\u2026?\u201d\u00a0 People still do that to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWould you ask your dad if he would come speak at this?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>People still do that to me, and probably now more than ever, because I work in a church resourcing position with Lifeway Christian Resources. I have access to a lot of church leaders; and so, people will come to me and go: \u201cHey, do you think your dad would be willing to do this?\u201d \u201cDo you think I could get on the phone with him?\u201d\u2014things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, it happened growing up too. People would hand me something and say, \u201cHey, could you bring this to your dad?\u201d\u00a0 I just wanted to go, \u201cThe church office is open Monday through Friday for drop off.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cHere\u2019s the number,\u201d \u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. So, number six: \u201cDo not assume that we agree with all the utterances of our fathers.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat kind of relates to \u201cDon\u2019t ask us about our dad\u2019s position on anything;\u201d but our parents say things that we do not agree with. Their stance on things may differ from ours. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn my dad\u2019s case, it\u2019s often the fervor with which he says something\u2014I would have said it very differently than he does. That doesn\u2019t mean that I think he is wrong, necessarily, but it does mean that I\u2019m not going to be nearly as excited about what he said as you are. And this is\u2014and all of this functions under the banner of normal parent\/child relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Of course!\u00a0 We all get it. Everybody is grinning, who is listening to our broadcast, right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>So, really, all of these are trying to lay the groundwork of \u201cLet us have a normal relationship with our parents,\u201d because that\u2019s where things can be healthiest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber seven: \u201cGet to know us.\u201d\u00a0 We talked about that just a moment ago, in terms of getting to know of us. We\u2014pastors\u2019 kids need, as much as anything, real close friends. And like anybody, we can\u2019t be close friends with everybody; but we need people who simply care about us, as a friend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a mentor, I\u2019ve had a handful of people who were the mentor-types for me\u2014paid zero attention to my last name\u2014and they were very explicit about that. They said: \u201cI know who your dad is, clearly; but the reason I want to have this relationship with you is because I see something in you that I want to help you develop. I want to help you grow spiritually. I want to help you grow in your abilities,\u201d\u2014those kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I have the friends. Some of them I\u2019ve known since I was 12. Some of them I developed in college\u2014some in more recent years, who\u2014the best ones who didn\u2019t know who my dad was beforehand. When I met my wife, she did not know who John Piper was; and I thought it was fantastic!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 It allows for an honest-to-goodness friendship that is built on identity, and shared life, and trust, and building each other up\u2014not on any sense of: \u201cI\u2019m friends with somebody who has a famous last name,\u201d or \u201c\u2026who has a position,\u201d or\u2014in a normal pastor\u2019s kid\u2019s case, that sense of: \u201cCan I really be myself? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cCan I express my doubts and my fears and my struggles without feeling like someone is going to heap judgment on me because the pastor\u2019s kid is not allowed to have those things?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there are a lot of listeners who, right now, are thinking, \u201cWho can I give this broadcast to?\u2014my pastor?\u201d\u00a0 Yes. \u201c\u2026.a missionary?\u201d\u00a0 Yes. But you can also listen to it, as a couple\u2014as a mom and dad\u2014and think about this as well. Maybe, you are a Sunday school teacher\u2014maybe, you are pressing the kids to be something and not allowing their own identity to shine through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese principles that you are talking about\u2014they go across the struggle that every teenager has, which is determining who he is \/ who she is: \u201cWhat\u2019s my identity? What\u2019s my spiritual address? Who am I in Jesus Christ, and what does He have for me in my generation?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, if you really want to love your pastor well, I think you get a copy of a book like this and you read it so that you can relate to him and relate to his family better.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, for that matter, for anybody who is serious about their walk with Christ\u2014I think a book like this helps you understand what it is like to grow up in a home where Christ is at the center \/ where church is a priority and how that can feel for a pastor\u2019s kid or for any child who grows up in a ministry-minded family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We\u2019ve got copies of Barnabas Piper\u2019s book, <em>The Pastor\u2019s Kid: Finding Your Own Faith and Identity<\/em>. It\u2019s in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy of the book; or you can order it from us by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. If you go online, FamilyLifeToday.com is the website. There is a link in the upper left-hand corner that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d\u00a0 That will take you to a place on the page where you can easily order <em>The Pastor\u2019s Kid<\/em> online. Or if you\u2019d prefer to call, you can order over the phone\u20141-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, let me just say how grateful we are to the folks who make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible\u2014those of you who pray for us and who help support this ministry, financially. Want to let you know about a couple of things that are going on this month. Next week is National Marriage Week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are not connected with FamilyLife on Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, can I encourage you to friend us or follow us on Twitter?\u00a0 We\u2019ve got some stuff coming up next week that\u2019s going to be a lot of fun. You won\u2019t want to miss it, and I think it is some stuff that will help you grow deeper in your relationship with one another, as husband and wife. So, check us out on Facebook at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> or follow us on Twitter at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Watch for what\u2019s coming up next week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, I want to let you know that, during the month of February, we are asking <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners\u2014those of you who are long-time listeners\u2014to consider joining with us as monthly supporters\u2014what we call Legacy Partners. It\u2019s a great way to stay connected with this ministry, month-in and month-out, find out about what God is doing as a result of your support and to stay connected with resources to help strengthen you in your marriage and your family relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner that says, \u201cI CARE.\u201d All the information you need is available right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, hope you can be back with us again tomorrow. Barnabas Piper is going to be here again. We\u2019re going to continue our conversation about what it\u2019s like to grow up as a PK\u2014a preacher\u2019s kid. Hope you can be here for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.03M"],"filesize_raw":["27292717"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303375.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303375.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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kids are just like other kids. But the environment they're in is more intense. Barnabas Piper, talks about the pressure and challenges he's experienced being a pastor's kid.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-02-04.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you are a PK\u2014a preacher\u2019s kid\u2014sometimes, you wonder, \u201cWhich does dad love more\u2014me or the ministry?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I know of some pastors who have stepped out of the ministry because of the effect it was having on their family. I have the utmost respect for that decision. I think that is a remarkable sense of priority. I know other pastors whose families have fallen apart because they prioritized ministry over their kids. I have a lot less respect for that decision. It is a burden on the family\u2014the amounts of pressure that the pastor bears. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We have a PK joining us today\u2014a preacher\u2019s kid\u2014with insights on what it\u2019s like to grow up in a pastor\u2019s home. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks for joining us. When I was growing up, there was a TV show called <em>What\u2019s My Line?<\/em> Do you remember <em>What\u2019s My Line?<\/em>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They\u2019d bring out somebody, and the\u2014sometimes, the panel had to be blindfolded because the person they brought out was famous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, we\u2019re going to blindfold radio listeners?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re going to blindfold our radio listeners because we have a pastor\u2019s son joining us\u2014but we\u2019re not going to say who the pastor is or who the son is\u2014at least, not right away; right?\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019re just going to use his middle name. Somebody is going to think they are going to Google<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> it, and they are going to figure it out\u2014but I\u2019m just going to welcome him by the name of William. William, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Easy for you to say. It\u2019s great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is easy for me to say. William is married to his wife Lesley since 2005. They have two children and live near Nashville. A bunch of people go, \u201cI know who that is.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI think I know,\u201d\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cI think I know who that is.\u201d\u00a0 But William has written a book about being a pastor\u2019s kid. You begin the book, William, by talking about a pressure cooker. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tExplain why you compare being a PK to a pressure cooker. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>That example comes from the fact that PK\u2019s are made of the same ingredients as any other kid is\u2014you know, we are just normal people. When food is cooked in a pressure cooker\u2014it\u2019s all the same ingredients\u2014you throw a pot roast in there, and you throw the carrots in there. You throw the potatoes in there\u2014whatever it is\u2014but the steam pressure makes it cook at a higher temperature. So, it cooks faster. There is this high-pressure\/high-temperature environment. Everything is intensified. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is what it is like to be a pastor\u2019s kid in the church environment. You\u2019re this normal person\u2014made up of normal people stuff\u2014in this intense, high-pressure environment because of the expectations \/ because of the scrutiny that is placed on you, as pastor\u2019s kid. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you remember when it first dawned on you that there was something different about you than the other kids that you were going to church with?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I remember instances\u2014going all the way back to kindergarten, first, and second grade\u2014when I noticed that I was treated differently. At that age, you don\u2019t have the self-awareness to think this sort of expansive \u201cI live a different life.\u201d\u00a0 But I mean\u2014I remember being expected to answer the Bible trivia questions that other kids couldn\u2019t answer \/ being expected to not run in church when all of my friends were running in church. I mean\u2014those little things that stand out in your mind when you are a small child, and it just sort of escalated as time went along. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And so, how long were you in the cooker?\u00a0 I\u2019m picturing my mom\u2019s pressure cooker, Bob. I don\u2019t know if your mom had one. It had this little metal top you\u2019d put on it that kept the steam in to a certain degree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How long were you in the pot?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Well, I was born three years after my dad became a pastor; and then, he retired on my 30<sup>th<\/sup> birthday. So, my entire life\u2014up to the age of 30\u2014was as a pastor\u2019s kid. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you would say\u2014even after you went to college \/ even after you were out of the home, got married, started your own family\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you\u2019re still in the pressure cooker?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. Especially, every time I go home, but\u2014and here is a hint as to who my dad is\u2014he\u2019s more well-known than just a pastor of a local congregation. So, when I left and went to college, the awareness of me went with me. People still knew who I was, and I still lived under those expectations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We should probably go ahead and tell the listeners; don\u2019t you think?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, I think we need to go a little bit deeper here. You\u2014in writing your book\u2014which we\u2019ll share the name of it in a minute\u2014that will keep people from Googling it and finding out who you are ahead of time. You interviewed 40 PK\u2019s\u2014both men and women?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes, at least. I mean, it was 40 sort of formal interviews, at least; and then, just dozens of conversations I had over the years with pastors\u2019 kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Was there a single theme that you heard that just resonated with you as a young man in the cooker?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I interviewed them because I wanted to know if my experience was normative or if I was crazy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because I had this sense that I wanted to write something, but I didn\u2019t want to misrepresent it. I was basically just looking for: \u201cDid they share an experience with me?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was almost as if they had the teacher\u2019s answer key and were feeding answers back to me, in terms of certain phrases \/ certain experiences that they gave in terms of: \u201cEverybody is watching me,\u201d \u201cI was expected to live to a higher standard.\u201d There were some people who had very, very difficult experiences, where their parents made life very hard on them. There were others whose parents were great, but they still felt it\u2014just in the pressure of the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut those things\u2014the expectations and the scrutiny\u2014and then, the third thing is difficulty finding your own spiritual identity because God is just ubiquitous when you\u2019re a pastor\u2019s kid\u2014He\u2019s dad\u2019s job. He\u2019s all around you all the time. He\u2019s talked about at the dinner table. You\u2019re at church every Sunday, but there is not a personal connection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinding that spiritual identity and relationship with Christ is the third big thing that PK\u2019s struggle with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s one of the things I wanted to ask you about because I have counseled and talked with and interacted with a number of PK\u2019s and MK\u2019s\u2014missionary kids. One of the interesting things they\u2019ve talked about is being in the shadow\u2014which can affect your identity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How much did you feel like you were in your dad\u2019s shadow and didn\u2019t know who you were, as a follower of Christ?\u00a0 And here is the thing\u2014I now get it. Having had a number of these MK\u2019s and PK\u2019s tell me this, I fully get it now; but go ahead and share it with our listeners how you felt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I wouldn\u2019t have put it in those terms just because I don\u2019t think I was that aware of it until later on; but in retrospect, I would say, \u201cBeing in the shadow of my dad and his very defined, well-expressed belief in and relationship with God caused me a great amount of difficulty\u2014not because he did anything wrong\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but because it wasn\u2019t my own.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t something that I would\u2019ve expressed in the same way he did, and it wasn\u2019t an experience of me coming to Christ in just an \u201cI\u2019ve met Jesus in a personal way.\u201d\u00a0 It was \u201cI know of Jesus because I just\u2014that\u2019s what pastors\u2019 kids do.\u201d\u00a0 We know everything about Jesus. We can answer <em>all<\/em> the questions. We can answer the questions about the questions, but there is not a sense of \u201cI know what I believe.\u201d\u00a0 There is only a sense of \u201cI know what I know.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, for me, it wasn\u2019t until later on\u2014when through a series of sort of crisis situations\u2014that I came, face to face, with what my need for grace was \/ what grace really is\u00a0 and who Jesus is\u2014and realized, \u201cI can come to Him as <em>me<\/em> instead of just in the terms that my dad believes in Him.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Instead of being the son\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014of John Piper. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you think\u2014and we\u2019ll just let that sink in here. We\u2019ll call you Barnabas now that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d kept calling me William, I probably wouldn\u2019t have answered. I would have gotten confused. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you think that the scrutiny and the pressure, for you, was intensified because your dad\u2019s written two dozen books and he\u2019s well-known all around the world?\u00a0 I mean, he\u2019s not just the pastor of the little church down the street that\u2019s got 200 people coming to it\u2014he\u2019s a big deal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I think it was intensified after I left home for that reason. I think, prior to leaving home\u2014for a couple things. One is just the growth of his ministry coincided with me kind of coming of age. Through my elementary and junior high years, he was beginning to be known; but he was not any sort of really, really well-known, international figure\u2014he was a pastor and an author. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The other factor is that every pastor\u2019s kid, in the context of their congregation, feels similar things. It can be a church of a 100, or it can be a church of 10,000. In that congregation, there is the same sense of: \u201cPeople are watching. I\u2019m being held to a standard,\u201d et cetera. For me\u2014once I left home, I began to feel the rest of that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because, then, on the college campus that I went to\u2014you know, I went to Wheaton College\u2014people there knew who my dad was. So, there was this sense of people there expected me to be somebody because my last name is Piper. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I got into Christian publishing. People there are expecting me to be somebody. You know, my family\u2014we would go to church. People there expect me to be somebody, even though it\u2019s a church that\u2019s 400 miles away from Minneapolis\u2014those kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, it\u2019s really interesting to hear you talk about this because here\u2014your father is a man who has been used by God\u2014and your mom too\u2014to minister to a lot of people, locally, in the Minneapolis\/St. Paul area but, also, nationwide. You don\u2019t think of the ministry being a cross that the kids have to carry\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>It\u2019s true. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014but it is!\u00a0 It\u2019s almost as though your father\u2019s success \/ his depth of ministry is a unique burden for you, as a young man\u2014that not many in the country can even begin to fathom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes, and I think that\u2019s true for every pastor, scalable to size. One of the things I say, very early on, in the book is that pastors are called into ministry. Most pastors go into ministry with their wives feeling the same call\u2014they are in tandem. They\u2019ve talked through this, and they are going into it together. Their children\u2014not called into ministry\u2014they are just along for the ride. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>And so, the byproduct of the ministry is what you just described\u2014it\u2019s some of those pressures. Only each individual pastor can know how they have to deal with that in their own family. I know of some pastors who have stepped out of the ministry because of the effect it was having on their family. I have the utmost respect for that decision. I think that is a remarkable sense of priority. I know other pastors whose families have fallen apart because they prioritized ministry over their kids. I have a lot less respect for that decision. But it is a burden on the family\u2014the amounts of pressure that the pastor bears. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you remember a time, as a teenager or preteen, when you thought to yourself, \u201cI wish my dad wasn\u2019t a pastor\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>I grew up in Phillips neighborhood in south Minneapolis. It\u2019s a pretty diverse \/ pretty rough neighborhood. Just like any kid, I would take my bike out of the garage; and I would go ride around the neighborhood, just having fun. I must have been\u2014I couldn\u2019t have been any older than ten years old or right around then. I was riding around, and I ran into a group of neighborhood boys who I didn\u2019t know. They were from a different part of the neighborhood. They stole my bike\u2014knocked me off the bike, laughing, jumped on it, rode away. I was about three blocks from home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI run home crying and I talked to my dad about this. He used that as lesson to me on suffering for the sake of the gospel\u2014meaning: \u201cWe live in this neighborhood because it is where we are called to live. So, hard things happen as part of that calling.\u201d\u00a0 My feeling, of course, as a ten year old, is: \u201cI do not care!\u00a0 I want my bike back.\u201d The pastor is looking at this from a different perspective, going: \u201cThere\u2019s a lesson to be taught here. There is a calling here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe wasn\u2019t wrong, but it didn\u2019t feel right to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Truthfully, I read that\u2014and I guess I got a little emotional because I was very intentional with my kids about teaching things that occurred in everyday life. There is certainly a good use for that, and we have to teach our children as we walk by the way\u2014Deuteronomy 6 talks about that. But the lesson here is: \u201cSometimes, our kids\u2014as you just well described\u2014need a hug and need to hear, \u2018I\u2019m sorry. Now, let\u2019s go see if we can find those guys,\u2019\u201d\u2014just like you said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut for a pastor, that\u2019s almost antithetical. I don\u2019t mean that they shouldn\u2019t be human, in terms of being empathetic, because there are pastors, who are listening to our broadcast, right now, who are\u2014but we\u2019re all about teaching \/ we\u2019re all about lessons. We\u2019re all about passing on truth and, certainly, to our own children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we\u2019ve all heard the stories of PK\u2019s, who grow up in homes where, for whatever reason, those kids get to their independence and they go: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 This was for the birds. I\u2019m going to have a different kind of life going forward.\u201d\u00a0 You have to wonder how many of those dads go: \u201cReally? I gave my life to the gospel so that my kids could burn out on it and walk away?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>There is no single reason why that happens, but I think the pressure cooker aspect of things is part of it because a higher percentage of pastors\u2019 kids, according to Barna Research\u2014a higher percentage of pastors\u2019 kids don\u2019t leave than any other kid. It\u2019s about the same rate; but I would say, \u201cIt is more noticeable when it\u2019s a pastor\u2019s kid because it\u2019s the pastor\u2019s kid.\u201d\u00a0 People expect the pastor\u2019s kid to get it <em>right<\/em>\u2014not to leave. So, when whatever percent leave, then, it\u2019s noticeable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it is that pressure\u2014and it is the sense that because of that pressure\u2014it forces strong reactions. There\u2019s either\u2014on the one hand, this sort of: \u201cI\u2019m going to play this game.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou become\u2014and that was my reaction\u2014I didn\u2019t really walk away from the church, but you learn how to fake it really well. You may not even realize you are faking it. But then, you\u2019ve got the pastors\u2019 kids on the other side\u2014who look at it and go: \u201cI\u2019m not playing that game. I\u2019m done with it. I\u2019m washing my hands of this.\u201d As soon as they can, they are out the door\u2014it might be at 15, it might be at 16, it might be 20\u2014and they are just done with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there is a lot more to this story, but I\u2019m going to jump process. I\u2019m going to take you all the way to Chapter 9 in your book\u2014\u201cSeven Rules for When You Meet a PK.\u201d I just want you to go through those because we\u2019ve got a lot of people who go to church, who are listening to our broadcast\u2014they aren\u2019t a pastor \/ they don\u2019t have PK\u2019s\u2014but they are relating to PK\u2019s and to pastors. These seven rules\u2014I think will be helpful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Alright; rule number one: \u201cDo not ask us, \u2018What is it like to be the son or daughter of\u2026?\u2019\u201d\u2014in my case, John Piper. Now, I think that might be more particular to the son or daughter of somebody who\u2019s well-known. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think pastors\u2019 kids, in any context, get that: \u201cWhat\u2019s it like to be the pastor\u2019s kid?\u00a0 What\u2019s it like to be this or that?\u201d\u00a0 We have no idea how to answer that question. We only have one set of parents. So, that\u2019s a question we honestly cannot answer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRule number two: \u201cDo not quote our dads to us.\u201d [Laughter]\u00a0 I\u2019m just going to let that one stand because I\u2019m sure any child of any parent in any profession does not want to have their parent\u2019s words put in their face as a corrective, or as a joke, or as anything else\u2014just let it be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber three: \u201cDo not ask us anything personal you would not ask of anyone else.\u201d\u00a0 That, I think, is one of the most applicable things to <em>any member<\/em> of a church because it\u2019s one of the ones that people do with the best intention and having no idea that is actually piling on the pastor\u2019s kid. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I mean by that is\u2014there is this awareness of the pastor\u2019s kid\u2019s life. People used to come up to me and ask me about how school was going, and how my Friday night football game went, and my prom date, and what college I had selected, and those kinds of things\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014things that they would not have known about any of my peers. It gives this sense of: \u201cPeople are in my business,\u201d and it is not done out of a malicious heart. People are genuine and caring, but they don\u2019t realize that being a little too genuine and caring\u2014it piles up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You are sitting there, thinking, \u201cWhat else do they\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cknow about my life?!\u00a0 I don\u2019t have any privacy at all.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>And it\u2019s the cumulative effect of it\u2014in the sense that, if only one person did that, you\u2019d forget it. But if ten people on a Sunday do that, then, you just look around and go: \u201cEverybody\u2019s watching me. They all know stuff.\u201d\u00a0 <br><br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you make a point in your book\u2014I forget exactly how you say it\u2014but you said, \u201cThere are a lot of people who know of me and know a little bit about me, but they really don\u2019t know me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Exactly. Yes, there\u2019s that distinct differentiation between those friends who I have a trust relationship with. They don\u2019t think of me as the son of anybody. They think of me as Barnabas, and they are my friend. I can confide in them and vice versa. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if they came up and asked me about something personal, that is because we are sharing in that element of life. If somebody, who I don\u2019t know very well does, then, it\u2019s just they know something of me because of whatever platform I share with my dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber four: \u201cDo not ask us anything about our dads\u2019 positions on anything.\u201d [Laughter]\u00a0 One of the things that pastors\u2019 kids\u2014and I think this is probably true for just religious leaders in general\u2014the children of religious leaders\u2014we are expected to walk in lock-step with our parents on everything\u2014that could be political positions, theological positions, lifestyle positions\u2014whatever the case may be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd just like you, the listener, are not in lock-step with your parents on everything\u2014and I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve butted heads with them about something\u2014we do the same thing. We ought to have the freedom to do the same thing\u2014to form our own opinions, obviously, under the banner of what is biblical, what it is true, what\u2019s honoring to Christ. But whether it\u2019s political, theological, lifestyle, or anything else\u2014we need to have the freedom to develop our own identity and opinions.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe more we get asked about what our dad thinks about something, the less freedom we have to differ from that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, number five: \u201cDo not assume you can gain audience with the pastor through us.\u201d\u00a0 He has an assistant for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>People tried to do that with you?!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Absolutely: \u201cHey, would you give this to your dad?\u00a0 Hey, would you let your dad know\u2026?\u00a0 Do you think your dad would be willing to\u2026?\u201d\u00a0 People still do that to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWould you ask your dad if he would come speak at this?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>People still do that to me, and probably now more than ever, because I work in a church resourcing position with Lifeway Christian Resources. I have access to a lot of church leaders; and so, people will come to me and go: \u201cHey, do you think your dad would be willing to do this?\u201d \u201cDo you think I could get on the phone with him?\u201d\u2014things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, it happened growing up too. People would hand me something and say, \u201cHey, could you bring this to your dad?\u201d\u00a0 I just wanted to go, \u201cThe church office is open Monday through Friday for drop off.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cHere\u2019s the number,\u201d \u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. So, number six: \u201cDo not assume that we agree with all the utterances of our fathers.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat kind of relates to \u201cDon\u2019t ask us about our dad\u2019s position on anything;\u201d but our parents say things that we do not agree with. Their stance on things may differ from ours. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn my dad\u2019s case, it\u2019s often the fervor with which he says something\u2014I would have said it very differently than he does. That doesn\u2019t mean that I think he is wrong, necessarily, but it does mean that I\u2019m not going to be nearly as excited about what he said as you are. And this is\u2014and all of this functions under the banner of normal parent\/child relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Of course!\u00a0 We all get it. Everybody is grinning, who is listening to our broadcast, right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barnabas: <\/strong>So, really, all of these are trying to lay the groundwork of \u201cLet us have a normal relationship with our parents,\u201d because that\u2019s where things can be healthiest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber seven: \u201cGet to know us.\u201d\u00a0 We talked about that just a moment ago, in terms of getting to know of us. We\u2014pastors\u2019 kids need, as much as anything, real close friends. And like anybody, we can\u2019t be close friends with everybody; but we need people who simply care about us, as a friend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a mentor, I\u2019ve had a handful of people who were the mentor-types for me\u2014paid zero attention to my last name\u2014and they were very explicit about that. They said: \u201cI know who your dad is, clearly; but the reason I want to have this relationship with you is because I see something in you that I want to help you develop. I want to help you grow spiritually. I want to help you grow in your abilities,\u201d\u2014those kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I have the friends. Some of them I\u2019ve known since I was 12. Some of them I developed in college\u2014some in more recent years, who\u2014the best ones who didn\u2019t know who my dad was beforehand. When I met my wife, she did not know who John Piper was; and I thought it was fantastic!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 It allows for an honest-to-goodness friendship that is built on identity, and shared life, and trust, and building each other up\u2014not on any sense of: \u201cI\u2019m friends with somebody who has a famous last name,\u201d or \u201c\u2026who has a position,\u201d or\u2014in a normal pastor\u2019s kid\u2019s case, that sense of: \u201cCan I really be myself? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cCan I express my doubts and my fears and my struggles without feeling like someone is going to heap judgment on me because the pastor\u2019s kid is not allowed to have those things?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there are a lot of listeners who, right now, are thinking, \u201cWho can I give this broadcast to?\u2014my pastor?\u201d\u00a0 Yes. \u201c\u2026.a missionary?\u201d\u00a0 Yes. But you can also listen to it, as a couple\u2014as a mom and dad\u2014and think about this as well. Maybe, you are a Sunday school teacher\u2014maybe, you are pressing the kids to be something and not allowing their own identity to shine through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese principles that you are talking about\u2014they go across the struggle that every teenager has, which is determining who he is \/ who she is: \u201cWhat\u2019s my identity? What\u2019s my spiritual address? Who am I in Jesus Christ, and what does He have for me in my generation?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, if you really want to love your pastor well, I think you get a copy of a book like this and you read it so that you can relate to him and relate to his family better.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, for that matter, for anybody who is serious about their walk with Christ\u2014I think a book like this helps you understand what it is like to grow up in a home where Christ is at the center \/ where church is a priority and how that can feel for a pastor\u2019s kid or for any child who grows up in a ministry-minded family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We\u2019ve got copies of Barnabas Piper\u2019s book, <em>The Pastor\u2019s Kid: Finding Your Own Faith and Identity<\/em>. It\u2019s in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy of the book; or you can order it from us by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. If you go online, FamilyLifeToday.com is the website. There is a link in the upper left-hand corner that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d\u00a0 That will take you to a place on the page where you can easily order <em>The Pastor\u2019s Kid<\/em> online. Or if you\u2019d prefer to call, you can order over the phone\u20141-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, let me just say how grateful we are to the folks who make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible\u2014those of you who pray for us and who help support this ministry, financially. Want to let you know about a couple of things that are going on this month. Next week is National Marriage Week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are not connected with FamilyLife on Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, can I encourage you to friend us or follow us on Twitter?\u00a0 We\u2019ve got some stuff coming up next week that\u2019s going to be a lot of fun. You won\u2019t want to miss it, and I think it is some stuff that will help you grow deeper in your relationship with one another, as husband and wife. So, check us out on Facebook at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> or follow us on Twitter at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Watch for what\u2019s coming up next week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, I want to let you know that, during the month of February, we are asking <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners\u2014those of you who are long-time listeners\u2014to consider joining with us as monthly supporters\u2014what we call Legacy Partners. It\u2019s a great way to stay connected with this ministry, month-in and month-out, find out about what God is doing as a result of your support and to stay connected with resources to help strengthen you in your marriage and your family relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner that says, \u201cI CARE.\u201d All the information you need is available right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, hope you can be back with us again tomorrow. Barnabas Piper is going to be here again. We\u2019re going to continue our conversation about what it\u2019s like to grow up as a PK\u2014a preacher\u2019s kid. Hope you can be here for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303375","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303375"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303375"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303375"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303375"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303375"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303375"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303375"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}