{"id":303335,"date":"2015-01-02T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2015-01-02T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/hitting-bottom\/"},"modified":"2015-01-02T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2015-01-02T17:00:00","slug":"hitting-bottom","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/hitting-bottom\/","title":{"rendered":"Hitting Bottom"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Michael and Hayley DiMarco, CEOs and founders of Hungry Planet, talk about Michael&#8217;s descent into a gambling addiction and the felony that finally got his attention and turned his life around.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-01-02.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.81M","filesize_raw":"23915548","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2840,2906],"tags":[2872,5579,4930,5580],"podcast_series":[7509],"cwp_profile":[3373],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303335","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-addiction","category-becoming-a-christian","tag-addiction","tag-casino","tag-gambling","tag-gambling-problem","podcast_series-all-in","cwp_profile-michael-and-hayley-dimarco","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303335\/hitting-bottom","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303335\/hitting-bottom","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"pQNxu2qLCU\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/hitting-bottom\/\">Hitting Bottom<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/hitting-bottom\/embed\/#?secret=pQNxu2qLCU\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Hitting Bottom&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"pQNxu2qLCU\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-01-02.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-01-02.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Have you ever wondered how someone becomes a compulsive gambler?\u2014how it becomes an addiction? Here are some thoughts on that subject from former compulsive gambler, Michael DiMarco.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Gambling was my \"blankey\"\u2014I was like Linus. I had that blanket that I took around everywhere. There came a point in life, you know\u2014you can't really go into the corporate boardroom, dragging around your blankey; you know? You have to give it up, at some point. It's an interesting analogy that\u2014I think Christ takes our crutches \/ takes our addictions\u2014takes\u2014He wants to take our blankey, and take that away, and say, \"You don't need that anymore.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, January 2<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We will hear today about Michael DiMarco's path back from his time as a compulsive gambler. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition. I\u2019ve already shared a true confession, this week, about going to a casino and losing all my money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have a\u2014this is the more virtuous confession I have to make\u2014I have never, in my life, bought a lottery ticket at a convenience store or anyplace else. The reason is because I am convinced, that if I bought a lottery ticket tomorrow,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You'd win.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014I would win the big jackpot. The headline in the paper would be: \"Christian Radio Host Wins $17 million in Powerball Lottery\"; and then I'd be sunk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In fact, we have a story to tell you today that is really Part Two of a story we started, earlier this week, with Michael and Hayley DiMarco. Welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Yes, it's great being back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Michael has written a book called <em>All In<\/em>. It talks about, among other things, his addictive compulsive behavior of gambling. We talked about earlier how you sat down at a table and won all this money, playing blackjack\u2014and enjoyed it so much you became dehydrated, got up, fainted, spilled your chips all over the floor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, what I wanted to ask you, though, at the end of that story\u2014because you started talking about how you were gambling every day\u2014and you shared how you were a volleyball coach.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, we all know volleyball coaches make hundreds of thousands of dollars every year\u2014so that explains where you got all the money to be able to gamble every day; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Well, that and the lucrative television deals that you have. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Where were you getting the money to gamble, Michael?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Well, at first, it was, as I mentioned, I won\u2014I won a lot of money. But then, as odds tend to catch up to you, I lost. As I was losing money, I would wait for my paycheck to come so that I would have enough money\u2014or I'd have money to go gamble again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI gambled pretty much every day I had money. At first, that was like every two weeks, or I might put off paying a few bills and stretch myself; but I'd pay my rent, and the light bill, and have gas, and food, and things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, after a while, I didn't need food anymore because I knew the casinos would buy my food as soon as I walked in the door. You know, it was like a scene from <em>Cheers<\/em>. Instead of \"Norm,\" they'd say \"Michael.\" All of a sudden, the casino turned up their lights a little brighter because they knew they were going to be able to pay a little bit more energy bill that night because I had come to gamble.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut as the losing streak and as the compulsion turned from, really, what started as a semi-skilled\u2014and I use that phrase loosely\u2014a semi-skilled gambler, where I was actually trying to win. When it became a compulsion\u2014where it really didn't matter as much whether I won or not\u2014I was just trying to escape my life. I was searching for something\u2014I was searching for peace. For some reason I thought I could find it in a casino.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs that money ran out, I started to get, as most compulsive gamblers do\u2014I started to get, as we like to call, \"creative.\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started going to these check-cashing places, which charge you like 600 percent interest on writing post-dated checks. Basically, they honor bad checks\u2014is what they do. Luckily, they didn't have title pawn legislation in my state; otherwise, I'd probably sign over the title to my car for a few hundred dollars. And then, as that started to run out, I started floating checks. Then I got really desperate. I had to cover my rent one month because I had gambled all my money away. At my work, I had access to\u2014like a change fund\u2014like, if we held special events, I could fill out a form and go get $400 or $500.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A petty cash kind of thing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Yes, like petty cash. Then, within three or four days of getting that, return it. It was kind of this revolving thing, where I said, \"Well, I'm just going to do this once,\" and so I did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd a credit to the people that I worked with\u2014they trusted me. Once again, it was that I led a double life. One thing about gambling addiction is\u2014there's no real visible physiological change\u2014you're not slurring your speech, you're not stumbling \/ getting DWIs\u2014things like that from substance abuse or alcoholism.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first time I did that, I felt really guilty. I felt really guilty three days later, when I brought back the money. So, I didn't do it for about another four or five months, until I got in a jam again \/ put myself in a jam again\u2014and so I gave myself permission.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe key thing about people with gambling addictions, and probably any addiction, is that phrase, \"You give yourself permission.\" Just like Adam and Eve gave themselves permission to eat from the tree, when they knew it was wrong. They compartmentalized and said, \"Well,\" you know\u2014they believed the whisper of the serpent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, then, it just became too easy\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014I had gotten away with it \/ I had gotten away with it. I had just become numb to what I was really doing\u2014was stealing\u2014even though the university wasn't out any extra money\u2014I was still stealing. I was still betraying their trust \/ the stewardship of the responsibility I'd been given.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was in the middle of a four-year run that you were involved with gambling. You've already told us that you spent a part of that time in Gamblers Anonymous, but that didn't take for you. You got out of that and were back into gambling. Where did it all explode? What brought it to an end for you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Well, my life was just spiraling out of control. My work ethic was terrible\u2014I was taking two-hour lunches to go play, even if I had $25 in my pocket.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Where did you live?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>I lived north of Seattle, Washington.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So where\u2019d you go to play?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>There were two or three casinos that were within about an hour\u2019s drive of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You'd take your lunch break, at the college you worked at,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014to go gamble?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>That's right. Well, I certainly didn't need to eat\u2014I had to gamble. That was my escape\u2014that was my food. It goes back to that maturity thing. It goes back to never becoming a real man. So yes, the Gamblers Anonymous meetings worked\u2014but just for a time because I wasn\u2019t willing to be honest with other people in my life. When I did have a relapse\u2014which a lot of people do with addiction\u2014what you\u2019re supposed to do is go back and share that, but I was too prideful. I didn\u2019t want to go back and say that I had failed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Back to Bob's question\u2014 when you finally hit bottom, it was actually some of the stealing where you finally got caught.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Exactly. The opening story that I tell in the book, <em>All In<\/em>, is when I was sitting at a blackjack table. I had done the change fund theft from my work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn't borrowing\u2014it was thievery. I was sitting in front of a blackjack hand. I had two aces staring at me. In Texas Hold 'Em poker, that's a great hand\u2014it's the best you can have. In blackjack, it's a little trepidatious because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, you double down; don't you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Well, actually, no, you split them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh, yes, you split them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>You split them, which means you have two cards. You split\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob was trying to act like he knew\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>I know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014his one trip to a casino. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Dennis, that's a good sign\u2014that he didn't go, \"Oh, yes, you split those\"; you know?\u2014if he jumped and talked over me, I would be worried. But, yes, you split them, which means you separate them as two separate hands. Then, you get dealt one card, each on top, hoping that you get a 10 or a face card to make 21.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>But in order to split them, you have to match your bet that you already have out there. I had played the table maximum at that casino. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had $500 out on those two aces. I had $500 in my pocket, in the form of a purple $500 chip; and that was my insurance policy\u2014I had to take that back to the university. But the play on the odds say\u2014you have to do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, as I dug into my pocket, for the very first time, I prayed a lot. Gamblers pray a ton; but, for the very first time, I didn't pray for an outcome. I didn't pray for: \"Let me, at least, break even,\" \"Let me, at least, win this hand. Then I'll go home. I'll never be back here again.\" For the very first time, I said: \"God, I don't care what You do. Just get me out of this.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I pulled out the chip\u2014split the hands \/ got two good hands\u201418 and 20. The dealer flips over\u2014is showing a 7 \/ flips over a 9\u2014the dealer has 16. Odds are they're going to bust\u2014a 6 or higher and they get 22\u2014and they bust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the dealer draws a 5 for 21\u2014beats me on both hands. I lose the thousand dollars. I walked away from that table; and I said: \"Okay, this is going to be interesting. Let's see what you're going to do, God.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went back to work. Within 24 hours, the money was due back. A co-worker came up to me and said: \"What's the deal with all this?\u2014with this change fund?\u2014because you haven't turned it back in. I don't recognize this event.\" For the very first time, I felt at peace about telling the truth. I said, \"It's bogus\u2014it's bogus.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \"Okay, we've got a problem.\" From there, because I worked at a public university, they prosecuted it as theft. I forgot to mention\u2014I mentioned it in the book\u2014that I had also had video equipment that was entrusted to me. I would go to pawn shops\u2014and I would pawn equipment, and then get it out of pawn when we needed it, et cetera. So, the actual dollar amounts that the university was out was, basically, zero. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, because each time I borrowed or stole money, it accumulated\u2014in the eyes of the law\u2014into a felony.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was the spiritual turning point in your life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Oh, boy, yes. With some of my friends that have been long-time Christians and praying for me for a long time since I kind of fell away\u2014I kind of joked with them that I'd pulled a Chuck Colson. You know, I had my stereotypical prison jail-cell conversion, but it really wasn't an emotional one. I mean, it's emotional, to this day, to think about all of the things that I put myself, and my friends, and my co-workers through; but, really, it was a surrendering of the will. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn that holding tank, that I was in for about 36 hours, there was a very small library of like five books. One of them was a tattered King James Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started in Genesis, and that's when\u2014and I talk about this in the book\u2014that's when I realized that Adam and Eve were created with the ability to weigh risk\u2014that it wasn't a bite of the apple that created risk in our lives\u2014but that risk was there before\u2014because God never said, \"Don't even think about eating from the tree.\" He just said, \"Don't eat from the tree.\" Then, I noticed the first time, in the Bible, where man is fearful is after he disobeyed God. That's why, in the book, I talk about: \u201cWe can't avoid risk in life. What we were created to be was to be created without fear.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, I'm listening to your story and hearing about you coming to grips with your own addiction. I'm looking over at Hayley, and I'm thinking, \"She decided to marry this guy.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Talk about missions work! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, talk about risk! I mean, she's got a little gambling in her blood!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Well, I do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Why did you decide to do that, Hayley? I mean, were you aware of all this? You guys met, online.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How much of this did you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Well, actually, on our first date, we went out to eat. We sat down \/ we started having some chips and salsa, and he proceeded to talk. He talked, and he talked, and he talked. He told me all this, and all of his sordid past, for the entire date. I basically got to say: \"Oh,\u201d \u201cMmm-hmm,\u201d \u201cOh.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Like a dump truck?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Yes; exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>You know why\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, wait a second, you've talked long enough.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>See! That\u2019s what I should have said. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you're sitting there, with the back of the dump truck elevating.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What are you thinking, Hayley?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Well, probably, not what you think I might have been thinking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She's thinking, \u201cThere's not going to be a second date.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Right. I think, like every red-blooded woman\u2014I'm thinking nothing about the gambling, nothing about his divorce, nothing about\u2014I'm not even thinking about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm thinking: \"This guy must not like me because he's not letting me talk. I need to <em>talk<\/em> in order to bond with somebody, and he's not letting me talk. I'm never going to go out with this guy again because I don't get to talk!\" [Laughter] Women\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>We have three men in the studio, staring at her, like\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>This is one of the sad truths about women\u2014that I write in a lot of my books\u2014and that is that we have the tendency to lie to ourselves. That was not important. My concept was: \u201cI want somebody that wants to listen to me\u201d; and so, frankly, I didn't hear it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you were oblivious.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>She had written me off\u2014and not because of my gambling\u2014but just because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>No, it wasn't because of that\u2014that may change, obviously.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That may suffice for the first couple of dates; but, at the point, that he says, \"Will you marry me?\" then you're thinking: \"Okay, what am I about to marry?\u201d and \u201cWhat if he relapses?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>You know, I think that probably was in the back of my mind; but, frankly, I think the fact that most women\u2014we don't think about all those things and get too concerned about them because we know love will prevail. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I don't think that's really common sense or very smart; but in addition, being just who I am\u2014I really felt like and knew\u2014that: \u201cThis was the one.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was 37. I'd seen a lot of them come through, telling me they were \u201cthe one.\u201d I just\u2014I knew that I knew that I knew. His\u2014I'll tell you what it was\u2014the fact that he confessed what he had done\u2014that he said it was wrong, and that he wasn't hiding any of it really helped me to believe that it wasn't happening\u2014at least, at the time\u2014and it wasn't going to happen again. It didn't really scare me too bad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me ask Dennis: \u201cIf you were Hayley's dad, and she calls you and says\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Keep in mind, I'm 37; and my clock is ticking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cDaddy, I'm 37; and I've met the most wonderful guy.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cSweetheart, you've reminded me you're 37 through a lot of years, Sweetheart. [Laughter] We've all been praying for the right man.\u201d\u00a0 I'm not sure what I would say. I think I'd want some time with Mr. All-In over here\u2014I really would!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'd want to know track record\u2014I'd want to know walk with Christ. I'd want to know: \u201cWhat your objectives are \/ where your life is headed now.\u201d Then I'd want to ask Hayley a question. Here would be the question I'd ask you: \"Okay, Hayley, my daughter. Let's say the kids are now in elementary school, and you come home one day. You're cleaning out his pockets, and you find evidence that he's been gambling. Maybe it is a few chips in the pocket, and you find out he's been gambling for the past year. What would you do then?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Wow! Well, I'd definitely start to talk to him about it and, knowing me, I would probably preach to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I would pray over him, and then I would make sure that he would be in the Word with somebody that could walk alongside him because I really don't feel like the wife should ever be the leader of the man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I'm glad you mentioned that\u2014you'd go get another man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Right. I think there has to be a man that will hold him accountable\u2014that I know that will pull no punches and that will really have him stick to the letter of God's law. We would work through it because, you know, there's no one righteous, not even one. We're all sinning. He\u2014I don't know\u2014weekly \/ monthly, at least, has to point out to me where I've fallen; and I have to get back up, and I have to confess and say \u201cI'm sorry.\u201d It is a sin that could, obviously, be damaging to our family; but I just don't think there's any sin that\u2014there is no sin that's too big for Christ and for His Word to change.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And to the woman, right now, who is married to the man?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Well, I would say: \u201cFirst of all, get control of the money. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, \u2018I'm in charge of the money.\u2019 Take back all the credit cards \/ checkbooks. There should be no access to any of those funds.\u201d The good thing about\u2014well, for us, we work together at home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe both work from home, being authors. We're together 24\/7, so I know what he's doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you have a husband that leaves the home, you don't know what he's doing. I think it would be important\u2014again, I think, for him to have a man who keeps track of him. I don't think the wife should be keeping track of him, but someone should be keeping track of what he's doing with his time. They have software for the internet to find out what websites he's on. Again, a man should be monitoring that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The point is: \u201cThere needs to be community and accountability.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>There does\u2014there has to be because the wife can't handle it on her own.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And one of the reasons we've got the epidemics we have\u2014whether it's pornography, or gambling, or we can go through any list\u2014is because, as you said, Michael, you kept this thing away from everybody in your life. Where it's kept in darkness, it's going to flourish. But you open the door and say, \"I have a propensity toward this,\"\u2014you tell some of your buddies: \u201cYou know, this was a part of my past. I could fall to this again,\"\u2014and you've just put them on alert. Now, there's a little more safeguard there; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; yes. I'm glad you answered the question as you did because there has to be grace in any marriage that is going to go the distance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>That's right. You know, if there isn't\u2014if she's lecturing him or\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014nagging\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> \u2014nagging him, or telling him what he has to do, or monitoring him \/ calling him every hour\u2014that's going to damage the marriage because, suddenly, she's running the marriage \/ running the man. That balance\u2014when the wife takes over and becomes the leader and the husband becomes, essentially, the child\u2014nobody is getting out of the relationship what they want anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, someone has said nagging is like being nibbled to death by a duck.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>That sounds good\u2014a duck with teeth. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A duck with teeth\u2014that's right. That's not what marriage was intended to be. And I'm not your father, but it does sound like you guys have made a great choice. We're thrilled you've been here to share your story on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, I <em>know<\/em> there are listeners, right now, in the midst of tragic relationships, where this is no laughing matter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is for them\u2014today, right now, front and center\u2014and they need help and hope in how to deal with it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You remember, a while back, when we talked with David Powlison and Ed Welch from the Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation on the subjects of addictive behavior. We talked about all kinds of addictions\u2014to drugs, and alcohol, gambling, eating disorders, pornography. There are all kinds of behaviors that can become compulsive in our lives and can\u2014first, rule our lives and, ultimately, ruin our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEd's written a book called <em>Addictions: A Banquet in the Grave<\/em> that looks at the whole subject of compulsive addictive behaviors. As we start a new year, there may be some listeners, who are thinking, \u201cThis is the year where I really have got to address \/ I have got to get some help to deal with these compulsive behaviors in my own life.\u201d A good place to start is getting a copy of Ed Welch\u2019s book, <em>Addictions: A Banquet in the Grave<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link, at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d You\u2019ll find information about Ed\u2019s book available there. You can order it from us, online, if you\u2019d like. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. We also have a link that makes available the interviews we did with Ed Welch and David Powlison on the subject. You can listen to those interviews\u2014stream them, online, or download them for free if you\u2019d like. Once again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d to access these resources.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, as we kick off a brand new year, all of us, here at FamilyLife, are really\u2014we have a sense of expectancy about what God is going to do in 2015 through this ministry\u2014about the events that we will host, the resources we\u2019ll be creating, about this daily radio program and how God\u2019s going to use it in people\u2019s lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the reasons we can have that expectancy is because, during the month of December, we heard from many of our listeners\u2014who called, or went online, or who mailed in a donation\u2014and said: \u201cWe want to stand with you. We want to make 2015 a great year for this ministry. We believe this ministry is important \/ we believe it\u2019s needed, and we want to help support it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate your partnership very much. We are still going through the mail to determine exactly how everything ended up at the end of the month; but we just want you to know how grateful we are that you thought about us, that you pray for us, and that you help support this ministry. We couldn\u2019t do what we do without you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, if for some reason you missed making a donation before the end of the year, it\u2019s not too late to go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d and make an online donation. Or, if you\u2019d like to mail your donation to us, our mailing address is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday. We\u2019re going to talk to the former chaplain for the Baltimore Ravens football team. We\u2019re going to talk about what a husband can do to protect his wife\u2014how he can cover her\u2014physically, financially, emotionally, and spiritually. Rod Hairston joins us, along with his wife Sheri. Hope you can be here as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.81M"],"filesize_raw":["23915548"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303335.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303335.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and Hayley DiMarco, CEOs and founders of Hungry Planet, talk about Michael's descent into a gambling addiction and the felony that finally got his attention and turned his life around.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2015-01-02.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Have you ever wondered how someone becomes a compulsive gambler?\u2014how it becomes an addiction? Here are some thoughts on that subject from former compulsive gambler, Michael DiMarco.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Gambling was my \"blankey\"\u2014I was like Linus. I had that blanket that I took around everywhere. There came a point in life, you know\u2014you can't really go into the corporate boardroom, dragging around your blankey; you know? You have to give it up, at some point. It's an interesting analogy that\u2014I think Christ takes our crutches \/ takes our addictions\u2014takes\u2014He wants to take our blankey, and take that away, and say, \"You don't need that anymore.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, January 2<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We will hear today about Michael DiMarco's path back from his time as a compulsive gambler. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition. I\u2019ve already shared a true confession, this week, about going to a casino and losing all my money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have a\u2014this is the more virtuous confession I have to make\u2014I have never, in my life, bought a lottery ticket at a convenience store or anyplace else. The reason is because I am convinced, that if I bought a lottery ticket tomorrow,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You'd win.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014I would win the big jackpot. The headline in the paper would be: \"Christian Radio Host Wins $17 million in Powerball Lottery\"; and then I'd be sunk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In fact, we have a story to tell you today that is really Part Two of a story we started, earlier this week, with Michael and Hayley DiMarco. Welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Yes, it's great being back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Michael has written a book called <em>All In<\/em>. It talks about, among other things, his addictive compulsive behavior of gambling. We talked about earlier how you sat down at a table and won all this money, playing blackjack\u2014and enjoyed it so much you became dehydrated, got up, fainted, spilled your chips all over the floor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, what I wanted to ask you, though, at the end of that story\u2014because you started talking about how you were gambling every day\u2014and you shared how you were a volleyball coach.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, we all know volleyball coaches make hundreds of thousands of dollars every year\u2014so that explains where you got all the money to be able to gamble every day; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Well, that and the lucrative television deals that you have. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Where were you getting the money to gamble, Michael?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Well, at first, it was, as I mentioned, I won\u2014I won a lot of money. But then, as odds tend to catch up to you, I lost. As I was losing money, I would wait for my paycheck to come so that I would have enough money\u2014or I'd have money to go gamble again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI gambled pretty much every day I had money. At first, that was like every two weeks, or I might put off paying a few bills and stretch myself; but I'd pay my rent, and the light bill, and have gas, and food, and things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, after a while, I didn't need food anymore because I knew the casinos would buy my food as soon as I walked in the door. You know, it was like a scene from <em>Cheers<\/em>. Instead of \"Norm,\" they'd say \"Michael.\" All of a sudden, the casino turned up their lights a little brighter because they knew they were going to be able to pay a little bit more energy bill that night because I had come to gamble.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut as the losing streak and as the compulsion turned from, really, what started as a semi-skilled\u2014and I use that phrase loosely\u2014a semi-skilled gambler, where I was actually trying to win. When it became a compulsion\u2014where it really didn't matter as much whether I won or not\u2014I was just trying to escape my life. I was searching for something\u2014I was searching for peace. For some reason I thought I could find it in a casino.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs that money ran out, I started to get, as most compulsive gamblers do\u2014I started to get, as we like to call, \"creative.\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started going to these check-cashing places, which charge you like 600 percent interest on writing post-dated checks. Basically, they honor bad checks\u2014is what they do. Luckily, they didn't have title pawn legislation in my state; otherwise, I'd probably sign over the title to my car for a few hundred dollars. And then, as that started to run out, I started floating checks. Then I got really desperate. I had to cover my rent one month because I had gambled all my money away. At my work, I had access to\u2014like a change fund\u2014like, if we held special events, I could fill out a form and go get $400 or $500.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A petty cash kind of thing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Yes, like petty cash. Then, within three or four days of getting that, return it. It was kind of this revolving thing, where I said, \"Well, I'm just going to do this once,\" and so I did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd a credit to the people that I worked with\u2014they trusted me. Once again, it was that I led a double life. One thing about gambling addiction is\u2014there's no real visible physiological change\u2014you're not slurring your speech, you're not stumbling \/ getting DWIs\u2014things like that from substance abuse or alcoholism.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first time I did that, I felt really guilty. I felt really guilty three days later, when I brought back the money. So, I didn't do it for about another four or five months, until I got in a jam again \/ put myself in a jam again\u2014and so I gave myself permission.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe key thing about people with gambling addictions, and probably any addiction, is that phrase, \"You give yourself permission.\" Just like Adam and Eve gave themselves permission to eat from the tree, when they knew it was wrong. They compartmentalized and said, \"Well,\" you know\u2014they believed the whisper of the serpent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, then, it just became too easy\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014I had gotten away with it \/ I had gotten away with it. I had just become numb to what I was really doing\u2014was stealing\u2014even though the university wasn't out any extra money\u2014I was still stealing. I was still betraying their trust \/ the stewardship of the responsibility I'd been given.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was in the middle of a four-year run that you were involved with gambling. You've already told us that you spent a part of that time in Gamblers Anonymous, but that didn't take for you. You got out of that and were back into gambling. Where did it all explode? What brought it to an end for you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Well, my life was just spiraling out of control. My work ethic was terrible\u2014I was taking two-hour lunches to go play, even if I had $25 in my pocket.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Where did you live?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>I lived north of Seattle, Washington.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So where\u2019d you go to play?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>There were two or three casinos that were within about an hour\u2019s drive of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You'd take your lunch break, at the college you worked at,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014to go gamble?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>That's right. Well, I certainly didn't need to eat\u2014I had to gamble. That was my escape\u2014that was my food. It goes back to that maturity thing. It goes back to never becoming a real man. So yes, the Gamblers Anonymous meetings worked\u2014but just for a time because I wasn\u2019t willing to be honest with other people in my life. When I did have a relapse\u2014which a lot of people do with addiction\u2014what you\u2019re supposed to do is go back and share that, but I was too prideful. I didn\u2019t want to go back and say that I had failed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Back to Bob's question\u2014 when you finally hit bottom, it was actually some of the stealing where you finally got caught.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Exactly. The opening story that I tell in the book, <em>All In<\/em>, is when I was sitting at a blackjack table. I had done the change fund theft from my work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn't borrowing\u2014it was thievery. I was sitting in front of a blackjack hand. I had two aces staring at me. In Texas Hold 'Em poker, that's a great hand\u2014it's the best you can have. In blackjack, it's a little trepidatious because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, you double down; don't you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Well, actually, no, you split them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh, yes, you split them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>You split them, which means you have two cards. You split\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob was trying to act like he knew\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>I know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014his one trip to a casino. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Dennis, that's a good sign\u2014that he didn't go, \"Oh, yes, you split those\"; you know?\u2014if he jumped and talked over me, I would be worried. But, yes, you split them, which means you separate them as two separate hands. Then, you get dealt one card, each on top, hoping that you get a 10 or a face card to make 21.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>But in order to split them, you have to match your bet that you already have out there. I had played the table maximum at that casino. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had $500 out on those two aces. I had $500 in my pocket, in the form of a purple $500 chip; and that was my insurance policy\u2014I had to take that back to the university. But the play on the odds say\u2014you have to do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, as I dug into my pocket, for the very first time, I prayed a lot. Gamblers pray a ton; but, for the very first time, I didn't pray for an outcome. I didn't pray for: \"Let me, at least, break even,\" \"Let me, at least, win this hand. Then I'll go home. I'll never be back here again.\" For the very first time, I said: \"God, I don't care what You do. Just get me out of this.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I pulled out the chip\u2014split the hands \/ got two good hands\u201418 and 20. The dealer flips over\u2014is showing a 7 \/ flips over a 9\u2014the dealer has 16. Odds are they're going to bust\u2014a 6 or higher and they get 22\u2014and they bust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the dealer draws a 5 for 21\u2014beats me on both hands. I lose the thousand dollars. I walked away from that table; and I said: \"Okay, this is going to be interesting. Let's see what you're going to do, God.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went back to work. Within 24 hours, the money was due back. A co-worker came up to me and said: \"What's the deal with all this?\u2014with this change fund?\u2014because you haven't turned it back in. I don't recognize this event.\" For the very first time, I felt at peace about telling the truth. I said, \"It's bogus\u2014it's bogus.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \"Okay, we've got a problem.\" From there, because I worked at a public university, they prosecuted it as theft. I forgot to mention\u2014I mentioned it in the book\u2014that I had also had video equipment that was entrusted to me. I would go to pawn shops\u2014and I would pawn equipment, and then get it out of pawn when we needed it, et cetera. So, the actual dollar amounts that the university was out was, basically, zero. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, because each time I borrowed or stole money, it accumulated\u2014in the eyes of the law\u2014into a felony.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was the spiritual turning point in your life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Oh, boy, yes. With some of my friends that have been long-time Christians and praying for me for a long time since I kind of fell away\u2014I kind of joked with them that I'd pulled a Chuck Colson. You know, I had my stereotypical prison jail-cell conversion, but it really wasn't an emotional one. I mean, it's emotional, to this day, to think about all of the things that I put myself, and my friends, and my co-workers through; but, really, it was a surrendering of the will. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn that holding tank, that I was in for about 36 hours, there was a very small library of like five books. One of them was a tattered King James Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started in Genesis, and that's when\u2014and I talk about this in the book\u2014that's when I realized that Adam and Eve were created with the ability to weigh risk\u2014that it wasn't a bite of the apple that created risk in our lives\u2014but that risk was there before\u2014because God never said, \"Don't even think about eating from the tree.\" He just said, \"Don't eat from the tree.\" Then, I noticed the first time, in the Bible, where man is fearful is after he disobeyed God. That's why, in the book, I talk about: \u201cWe can't avoid risk in life. What we were created to be was to be created without fear.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, I'm listening to your story and hearing about you coming to grips with your own addiction. I'm looking over at Hayley, and I'm thinking, \"She decided to marry this guy.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>Talk about missions work! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, talk about risk! I mean, she's got a little gambling in her blood!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Well, I do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Why did you decide to do that, Hayley? I mean, were you aware of all this? You guys met, online.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How much of this did you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Well, actually, on our first date, we went out to eat. We sat down \/ we started having some chips and salsa, and he proceeded to talk. He talked, and he talked, and he talked. He told me all this, and all of his sordid past, for the entire date. I basically got to say: \"Oh,\u201d \u201cMmm-hmm,\u201d \u201cOh.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Like a dump truck?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Yes; exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>You know why\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, wait a second, you've talked long enough.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>See! That\u2019s what I should have said. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you're sitting there, with the back of the dump truck elevating.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What are you thinking, Hayley?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Well, probably, not what you think I might have been thinking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She's thinking, \u201cThere's not going to be a second date.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Right. I think, like every red-blooded woman\u2014I'm thinking nothing about the gambling, nothing about his divorce, nothing about\u2014I'm not even thinking about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm thinking: \"This guy must not like me because he's not letting me talk. I need to <em>talk<\/em> in order to bond with somebody, and he's not letting me talk. I'm never going to go out with this guy again because I don't get to talk!\" [Laughter] Women\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>We have three men in the studio, staring at her, like\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>This is one of the sad truths about women\u2014that I write in a lot of my books\u2014and that is that we have the tendency to lie to ourselves. That was not important. My concept was: \u201cI want somebody that wants to listen to me\u201d; and so, frankly, I didn't hear it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you were oblivious.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael: <\/strong>She had written me off\u2014and not because of my gambling\u2014but just because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>No, it wasn't because of that\u2014that may change, obviously.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That may suffice for the first couple of dates; but, at the point, that he says, \"Will you marry me?\" then you're thinking: \"Okay, what am I about to marry?\u201d and \u201cWhat if he relapses?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>You know, I think that probably was in the back of my mind; but, frankly, I think the fact that most women\u2014we don't think about all those things and get too concerned about them because we know love will prevail. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I don't think that's really common sense or very smart; but in addition, being just who I am\u2014I really felt like and knew\u2014that: \u201cThis was the one.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was 37. I'd seen a lot of them come through, telling me they were \u201cthe one.\u201d I just\u2014I knew that I knew that I knew. His\u2014I'll tell you what it was\u2014the fact that he confessed what he had done\u2014that he said it was wrong, and that he wasn't hiding any of it really helped me to believe that it wasn't happening\u2014at least, at the time\u2014and it wasn't going to happen again. It didn't really scare me too bad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me ask Dennis: \u201cIf you were Hayley's dad, and she calls you and says\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Keep in mind, I'm 37; and my clock is ticking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cDaddy, I'm 37; and I've met the most wonderful guy.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cSweetheart, you've reminded me you're 37 through a lot of years, Sweetheart. [Laughter] We've all been praying for the right man.\u201d\u00a0 I'm not sure what I would say. I think I'd want some time with Mr. All-In over here\u2014I really would!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'd want to know track record\u2014I'd want to know walk with Christ. I'd want to know: \u201cWhat your objectives are \/ where your life is headed now.\u201d Then I'd want to ask Hayley a question. Here would be the question I'd ask you: \"Okay, Hayley, my daughter. Let's say the kids are now in elementary school, and you come home one day. You're cleaning out his pockets, and you find evidence that he's been gambling. Maybe it is a few chips in the pocket, and you find out he's been gambling for the past year. What would you do then?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Wow! Well, I'd definitely start to talk to him about it and, knowing me, I would probably preach to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I would pray over him, and then I would make sure that he would be in the Word with somebody that could walk alongside him because I really don't feel like the wife should ever be the leader of the man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I'm glad you mentioned that\u2014you'd go get another man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Right. I think there has to be a man that will hold him accountable\u2014that I know that will pull no punches and that will really have him stick to the letter of God's law. We would work through it because, you know, there's no one righteous, not even one. We're all sinning. He\u2014I don't know\u2014weekly \/ monthly, at least, has to point out to me where I've fallen; and I have to get back up, and I have to confess and say \u201cI'm sorry.\u201d It is a sin that could, obviously, be damaging to our family; but I just don't think there's any sin that\u2014there is no sin that's too big for Christ and for His Word to change.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And to the woman, right now, who is married to the man?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>Well, I would say: \u201cFirst of all, get control of the money. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, \u2018I'm in charge of the money.\u2019 Take back all the credit cards \/ checkbooks. There should be no access to any of those funds.\u201d The good thing about\u2014well, for us, we work together at home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe both work from home, being authors. We're together 24\/7, so I know what he's doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you have a husband that leaves the home, you don't know what he's doing. I think it would be important\u2014again, I think, for him to have a man who keeps track of him. I don't think the wife should be keeping track of him, but someone should be keeping track of what he's doing with his time. They have software for the internet to find out what websites he's on. Again, a man should be monitoring that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The point is: \u201cThere needs to be community and accountability.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>There does\u2014there has to be because the wife can't handle it on her own.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And one of the reasons we've got the epidemics we have\u2014whether it's pornography, or gambling, or we can go through any list\u2014is because, as you said, Michael, you kept this thing away from everybody in your life. Where it's kept in darkness, it's going to flourish. But you open the door and say, \"I have a propensity toward this,\"\u2014you tell some of your buddies: \u201cYou know, this was a part of my past. I could fall to this again,\"\u2014and you've just put them on alert. Now, there's a little more safeguard there; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; yes. I'm glad you answered the question as you did because there has to be grace in any marriage that is going to go the distance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>That's right. You know, if there isn't\u2014if she's lecturing him or\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014nagging\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> \u2014nagging him, or telling him what he has to do, or monitoring him \/ calling him every hour\u2014that's going to damage the marriage because, suddenly, she's running the marriage \/ running the man. That balance\u2014when the wife takes over and becomes the leader and the husband becomes, essentially, the child\u2014nobody is getting out of the relationship what they want anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, someone has said nagging is like being nibbled to death by a duck.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley: <\/strong>That sounds good\u2014a duck with teeth. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A duck with teeth\u2014that's right. That's not what marriage was intended to be. And I'm not your father, but it does sound like you guys have made a great choice. We're thrilled you've been here to share your story on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, I <em>know<\/em> there are listeners, right now, in the midst of tragic relationships, where this is no laughing matter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is for them\u2014today, right now, front and center\u2014and they need help and hope in how to deal with it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You remember, a while back, when we talked with David Powlison and Ed Welch from the Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation on the subjects of addictive behavior. We talked about all kinds of addictions\u2014to drugs, and alcohol, gambling, eating disorders, pornography. There are all kinds of behaviors that can become compulsive in our lives and can\u2014first, rule our lives and, ultimately, ruin our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEd's written a book called <em>Addictions: A Banquet in the Grave<\/em> that looks at the whole subject of compulsive addictive behaviors. As we start a new year, there may be some listeners, who are thinking, \u201cThis is the year where I really have got to address \/ I have got to get some help to deal with these compulsive behaviors in my own life.\u201d A good place to start is getting a copy of Ed Welch\u2019s book, <em>Addictions: A Banquet in the Grave<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link, at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d You\u2019ll find information about Ed\u2019s book available there. You can order it from us, online, if you\u2019d like. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. We also have a link that makes available the interviews we did with Ed Welch and David Powlison on the subject. You can listen to those interviews\u2014stream them, online, or download them for free if you\u2019d like. Once again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d to access these resources.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, as we kick off a brand new year, all of us, here at FamilyLife, are really\u2014we have a sense of expectancy about what God is going to do in 2015 through this ministry\u2014about the events that we will host, the resources we\u2019ll be creating, about this daily radio program and how God\u2019s going to use it in people\u2019s lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the reasons we can have that expectancy is because, during the month of December, we heard from many of our listeners\u2014who called, or went online, or who mailed in a donation\u2014and said: \u201cWe want to stand with you. We want to make 2015 a great year for this ministry. We believe this ministry is important \/ we believe it\u2019s needed, and we want to help support it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate your partnership very much. We are still going through the mail to determine exactly how everything ended up at the end of the month; but we just want you to know how grateful we are that you thought about us, that you pray for us, and that you help support this ministry. We couldn\u2019t do what we do without you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, if for some reason you missed making a donation before the end of the year, it\u2019s not too late to go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the upper right-hand corner that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d and make an online donation. Or, if you\u2019d like to mail your donation to us, our mailing address is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday. We\u2019re going to talk to the former chaplain for the Baltimore Ravens football team. We\u2019re going to talk about what a husband can do to protect his wife\u2014how he can cover her\u2014physically, financially, emotionally, and spiritually. Rod Hairston joins us, along with his wife Sheri. Hope you can be here as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303335","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303335"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303335"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303335"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303335"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303335"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303335"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303335"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}