{"id":303321,"date":"2014-12-24T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-12-24T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-love-story-grounded-on-christ\/"},"modified":"2014-12-24T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-12-24T17:00:00","slug":"a-love-story-grounded-on-christ","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-love-story-grounded-on-christ\/","title":{"rendered":"A Love Story Grounded on Christ"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Carl Wilson reminisces about the end of his career as a Navy pilot, how he came to faith, and how he came to meet Sara Jo, the woman with whom he has shared life and ministry for 66 years.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-12-24.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"27.94M","filesize_raw":"29300865","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2906,2809],"tags":[4276,5569,5568,5567],"podcast_series":[8055],"cwp_profile":[9373],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303321","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-becoming-a-christian","category-commitment","tag-legacy","tag-marriage-longevity","tag-marriage-tips","tag-wisdom-of-years","podcast_series-the-power-of-new-covenant-love","cwp_profile-carl-wilson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303321\/a-love-story-grounded-on-christ","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303321\/a-love-story-grounded-on-christ","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"OOq9xNqJqP\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-love-story-grounded-on-christ\/\">A Love Story Grounded on Christ<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-love-story-grounded-on-christ\/embed\/#?secret=OOq9xNqJqP\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Love Story Grounded on Christ&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"OOq9xNqJqP\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Carl Wilson reminisces about the end of his career as a Navy pilot, how he came to faith, and how he came to meet Sara Jo, the woman with whom he has shared life and ministry for 66 years.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-12-24.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Have you ever wished your spouse would change?\u00a0 Carl Wilson says\u2014if we really do desire for change to happen in a marriage relationship, it\u2019s going to require patience \/ being long-suffering. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>You can\u2019t change them by telling them they are wrong. If you try to tell your wife where she\u2019s wrong, it won\u2019t work\u2014just to love her. Love her when she\u2019s wrong, and she needs to do the same for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, December 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll hear some wise words today about marriage and about love from someone who has been in love with the same woman for more than six decades. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. Here it is\u2014Christmas Eve. You all ready?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re kind of hesitant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, you\u2019re always wondering if you are really ready. I mean\u2014what if Barbara got me something\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Really nice?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014really nice?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You didn\u2019t get her something really nice?\u00a0 Is that what you are telling our listeners?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But if it\u2019s not of equal nice!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 I don\u2019t know any man, after more than four decades of marriage, is going to walk off into this thing really confident unless you\u2019ve signed a legal agreement that you are not going to give each other gifts. So, are you confident \u2014how are you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I am confident because I have the receipt for everything I bought for Mary Ann. About half of it will go back\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Anyway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the way it works, most years, at our house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I get that. Well, one thing I want our listeners to know here, before we get into our broadcast today\u2014if you can help us here, at yearend, we need you to. We are still short of taking advantage of the match that\u2019s been established. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, we\u2019ve had a $3.5 million dollar matching gift that has been made available to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEvery time a listener makes a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>this month, we are able to withdrawal an equal amount from that matching-gift fund. So, if you go online, or call us today, or mail in a check for $50, it\u2019s automatically a $100 value to FamilyLife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And what you need to know, as a listener, is your gift keeps us coming to you on a daily basis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and the same is true if you are listening via podcast or on our mobile app. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let me tell you\u2014there is a broadcast production team here that is producing it out for a podcast, and we need you to stand with us. If you\u2019ve been listening to this broadcast for a number of years and haven\u2019t given, I want to tell you, \u201cThis would be very, very timely.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, again, you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014make a donation online. Just click in the upper right-hand corner of our homepage, where it says, \u201cI Care.\u201d\u00a0 When you make your donation, it will be matched, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $3.5 million. That matching-gift fund has expanded, and we\u2019re grateful for that. You can also call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014make a donation over the phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr you can mail a check to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. We do hope to hear from you and want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d in advance, for your support of this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now, we\u2019re going to hear the second part today of a conversation that took place just a couple of months ago. We had a friend of yours, who hadn\u2019t seen in decades, who came to FamilyLife. We should say that this man has seen nine decades of life\u2014he\u2019s over 90 years old. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We haven\u2019t had that many\u2014what is that?\u00a0 That\u2019s not an octo\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s a nonagenarian, and it was just delightful to get to talk with him about marriage. He was a guy who gave you the advice, back when you were first married, to pray every day with Barbara. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, we thought, \u201cLet\u2019s find out what he\u2019s learned in the last couple decades about marriage.\u201d\u00a0 Carl and his wife, Sara Jo, have been married for more than 60 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSince you hadn\u2019t seen him for a couple decades, we thought we ought to just see what he\u2019s learned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And in true form, Carl Wilson lived up to his billing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previously Recorded]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In your marriage to Sara Jo\u2014in 66 years, you have undoubtedly had a few disagreements that have ended up in a conflict\u2014I mean, as in two stubborn people butting heads with each other\u2014and you have had to surrender to Jesus Christ. Would you mind sharing one of those stories, out of 66 years of marriage, Carl?\u2014just to give some hope to some couples, who are starting out this journey, and to realize it can be done\u2014that there is hope for marriages and families if you surrender to Christ and let Him live in and through you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>The first thing we have to do is admit that we are wrong and ask for forgiveness. Then, little things\u2014Sara Jo is a very strong-willed person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe\u2019s a very mild-mannered person \/ she speaks very softly\u2014she smiles wonderfully, but she stands her ground sometimes. [Laughter]\u00a0 It was tough at first. Really, it was worse because we didn\u2019t understand these things, but I think that\u2019s the key to communication\u2014until you let the love of Christ take over. But it\u2019s never been any big thing, strangely enough\u2014it\u2019s always little things that cause the problems. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you think most young couples\u2014most Christian couples\u2014don\u2019t understand what you are talking about when they talk about letting Christ\u2019s love flow through you?\u00a0 Do you think they are trying to do it on their own strength?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Carl: <\/strong>Sure, that\u2019s exactly what most Christians do\u2014all the time\u2014professing Christians. Very few understand what is at the center of Christian Christianity, which is dying with Christ and having His life in us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that\u2019s the only way that we can communicate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, that sounds abstract to somebody, though. When you say to them, \u201cYou just need to die with Christ and let Christ live through you,\u201d they think: \u201cI don\u2019t know how to do that. How do I do that?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>I know; but it\u2019s the Holy Spirit, which He gives us, that gives us that power. We all are going to fail at times; but I\u2019ve seen so many marriages saved by understanding that because, then, you can begin to communicate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, as you think about moving it from the theoretical, as Bob was talking about, to the practical, I think of one word\u2014surrender. Jesus Christ called us to surrender to Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Carl: <\/strong>Now, I agree with that; but it is the power of the Spirit that enables us to repent. The reason I say the caution is the tendency is\u2014some people say, \u201cWell, are you talking about works?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not what we do\u2014repentance is giving up \/ it\u2019s quitting\u2014saying: \u201cGod, I can\u2019t. You\u2019ve got to do it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>That\u2019s the only way!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cI yield.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Carl: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You also talk, in your book, about the concept of suffering love. Explain what you mean by that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly what Christ means when He says, \u201cLove one another as I have loved you,\u201d\u2014He suffered. If you look at all the passages\u2014for instance, there\u2019s one in \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1 Peter\u2014where he says to the woman: \u201cBe submitted [to your husband] even if he\u2019s disobedient.\u201d\u00a0 But it says, \u201cLikewise\u201d\u2014it starts with the word, likewise\u2014and it looks back to what happened to Jesus\u2014He was mistreated, but He didn\u2019t retaliate\u2014He suffered, but He went on loving. Then, he gets down to verse seven\u2014and he goes back to the word, likewise: \u201cLikewise, you men treat your wives as joint heirs to the grace of life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLook, we\u2019re just sinners\u2014all of us. That\u2019s why we have to\u2014suffering love is Christ\u2019s love in us. We don\u2019t love the unlovely\u2014He loves the unlovely. That\u2019s what makes possible to begin to communicate when you can understand that\u2014that\u2019s the transition point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>You feel strongly that husbands have a responsibility to take a leadership role in a marriage and that a wife has the responsibility to respect her husband in that position of authority. You know a lot of people chaff at that, and some people abuse that understanding of Scripture; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>Right. Again, Paul is quite clear about women being obedient\u2014but remember\u2014that does not mean those women are not still an individual, accountable to Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey are still equal in value before Christ, but there has to be some leadership in every organization and every family. God appointed the man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Speak to the men about what it looks like to truly have suffering love for their wives. What does it look like?\u2014because a lot of men can really grab ahold of the idea, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m in charge.\u201d\u00a0 Unfortunately, they abuse that role and that responsibility in their authority. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>Well, let me first say, \u201cWomen talk twice as much as men,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s been documented. God knew that we needed to hear it said twice before we heard it. [Laughter]\u00a0 But we need our wives to communicate with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>They see things\u2014especially relational things\u2014that we don\u2019t see. Women tell things in great detail. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m a man that wants to cut to the chase and get doing it. A lot of men are that way, but I need to listen to my wife. All men need to hear what their wives have to say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI feel that we need to be the leader, but we need to hear the other side. When you arrive at a point where the man has really heard what his wife is trying to say to him and appreciates that, then, that enables him to begin to lead as God would have him lead. Remember that, if he\u2019s the leader, he is, therefore, accountable to Christ. He had better find out what Christ wants him to say and what Christ wants him to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What I hear you saying, Carl, is\u2014in order for a man to be empowered to lead, he needs to have a long-suffering love that listens very carefully to what his wife is saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I think you are also saying\u2014and I think this is important\u2014that a husband has to be submissive too. He\u2019s got to be submissive to Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>Well, he has to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself\u2014both have to die to self. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>He is a man under authority. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Carl: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If he\u2019s trying to lead on his own authority, he\u2019s out of line. He\u2019s got to be leading under the\u2014in submission to Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>That makes it tough for her, but that\u2019s where 1 Peter comes in. Suffering love is the only way to change people. You can\u2019t change them by telling them they are wrong. If you try to tell your wife she\u2019s wrong, it won\u2019t work\u2014just love her. Love her when she\u2019s wrong, and she needs to do the same for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The passage you referenced in 1 Peter, Chapter 3\u2014the advice to husbands and wives\u2014concludes with the idea that we\u2019re not to return evil for evil\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014but we are to give a blessing, in the face of that kind of evil. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what you are talking about, right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What would you say, Carl, to a wife whose husband won\u2019t attend church?\u2014doesn\u2019t want to have anything to do with God, with her Savior, or the Bible. You\u2019ve undoubtedly, in all the thousands of people you\u2019ve counseled, as a pastor and as a Christian leader, have run into many who\u2019ve talked about this. What advice would you give to that wife?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>You know, we can\u2019t change people\u2014only Christ changes. A suffering love is what changes people. Over and over again, I have found that, when women love their husbands, who are not Christians, and continue to take it, and love him, and share with him:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the first people I led to Christ\u2014I\u2019ll tell you\u2014I got on a bus and was riding this bus. I was a new Christian, at the time, just learning how to talk to other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was a big, huge guy\u2014muscular\u2014standing up on the bus, and I was sitting down. Somebody got up next to me, and he sat down. And the Lord said, \u201cTalk to him about the Lord.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cCan\u2019t we start at another time.\u201d [Laughter] But anyway, I shared with him. He actually prayed and accepted Christ, right on the bus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Carl: <\/strong>I went back to get him to take him to a meeting on Friday night. His locker was filled with New Testaments and tracts. He said, \u201cMy wife has been praying for me; and gradually, I saw what I needed.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We started with Dennis asking you about the counsel you would give to a young couple today if they were getting married\u2014just the way that you mentored Dennis and Barbara, back when they had first gotten married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou told them to read the Scriptures every day, to pray together every day, and to kiss each other every day. Would you add anything to that if you were sitting down with a couple in their 20s, who just got married?\u2014a couple, who were just like Dennis and Barbara. They\u2019d been married four months; and they came and said, \u201cWhat\u2019s your best advice?\u201d\u00a0 Would you add anything to that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>You know, over in Ephesians 5 and 4, Paul is talking about the Christian life. He is getting to the family situation. He says, in Chapter 4, that we should give no opportunity to the devil\u2014that we should speak the truth in love and that we should not let the sun go down on our anger \/ never go to sleep angry with each other\u2014sit and try to solve it. Now, there are things that you can\u2019t solve\u2014you have to put it on hold. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, he goes on to say\u2014this is so important\u2014\u201cLet no corruption come out of your mouth, but only such as is good for building up, only that which will edify as fits the occasion,\u201d\u2014now, that\u2019s got to be added. Then, it goes on to say, \u201cDo not grieve the Holy Spirit.\u201d\u00a0 And it says: \u201cLet all harshness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another as God through Christ forgives you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTo me, understand how to edify\u2014now, that doesn\u2019t mean there should be no negatives according to the occasion because that can be edifying; but how you do it is\u2014if you do it tenderly \/ if you do it with love\u2014that makes a great deal of difference. Everybody gets angry. There are all kinds of injustice, and we do them to each other; but the point is\u2014that we see it is of the devil\u2014we admit it, and we don\u2019t go on in anger, and we forgive each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy wife makes mistakes\u2014if I can just say: \u201cFirst of all, maybe, I didn\u2019t make that clear. Maybe, I was wrong. Let\u2019s look at this together.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A little humility doesn\u2019t hurt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>That\u2019s dying to self. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s letting Christ speak, edifyingly, to help them grow. I think that\u2019s especially true of a man with a woman\u2014to affirm things. You know, you can respond two ways: You can be thankful if you do something right; or you\u2014and if something is wrong\u2014you can say: \u201cWell, I\u2019m sorry I didn\u2019t help you more with that;\u201d or give thanks in some way. It\u2019s amazing how easy it is to give thanks instead of reacting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Earlier today, I tweeted something; and it\u2019s not exactly what you just described. But I tweeted that unrealistic expectations can create a toxic soil where no human being can grow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And if you are constantly being negative \/ if you are constantly chipping away at the other person, they are not going to grow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey are not going to be built up\/\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014edified, like you are talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But if we can learn to catch our spouse doing something right and express appreciation, that\u2019s a practical way of showing this kind of love that we\u2019re talking about\u2014not absorbing the person\u2019s mistake and feeling like you are their judge\u2014but, instead, trying to find the things that they do that are right and encouraging them around those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>Well, see, I agree with that. Anything she does or I do\u2014you can tell each other \u201cThanks,\u201d and appreciate\u2014but see, that goes back to God. The beginning of sin: \u201cWhen they knew God but didn\u2019t glorify Him as God, neither were they thankful.\u201d\u00a0 Once you stop giving thanks to the other person, you\u2019ve already let self become the head. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Carl, there\u2019s one last topic I want you to just talk about just for a moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn your book, you have kind of a warning\u2014it\u2019s not kind of a warning\u2014it is a warning about our country and the condition of its marriages and families. You believe\u2014as C.S. Lewis had a quote\u2014that we may be living in the world\u2019s last night. Comment on that, if you would please. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>One of the things that God taught me was about the history of civilizations. In Romans 1, Paul traces how it happens. Usually a civilization grows and builds its culture for 250 years; then, the men become so proud\u2014they think, \u201cWe did it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf money is all important, it changes the value of children \/ of having children because they cost money\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Carl: <\/strong>\u2014and you move down the line and the civilization collapses. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believe that we are moving toward the time of the coming of the Lord, and we need to live as though we are going to answer to Him. Paul said, \u201cI\u2019ve made it my ambition to please Him because we all will appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ.\u201d\u00a0 I believe young men are the ones that ought to, now, become real Christians, and bold for Christ, and have the right kind of families, and care for their children, and speak out for Christ. This is the time for young men that are brave good men. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You think they need to step up\u2014is that what you are saying?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Carl: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Laughter] Just thought I\u2019d throw that in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019ve got a <em>Stepping Up<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> kit I\u2019m going to give Carl. I\u2019m going to challenge him to get together with some other men in his community and take them through the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> series. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you still have some ministry plans for your 90s?\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>Yes. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ll finish it, but I think I can set it up and get it started. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think you\u2019ll do just fine, Carl. [Laughter] You\u2019re\u2014I\u2019m grateful for your friendship, for your faithfulness over the years, and for your book. I just appreciate what you\u2019ve written and just your heart for Jesus Christ\u2014and to want to see others fall in love with the same One you love\u2014Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carl: <\/strong>Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we\u2019ve been listening to the second part of an interview recorded, a while back, with Carl Wilson. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you know what, Bob?\u00a0 Here is the thing\u2014everybody listening needs a picture of a couple who are running. I don\u2019t mean they are striding or sliding\u2014I mean they are running, flat out, to the finish line. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They\u2019re still in the race; aren\u2019t they?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And they are vibrant followers of Jesus Christ. And I\u2019ll tell you\u2014we all need people who are 80\/90-years-old-plus, showing us how to finish well and how to do it with a smile on our face. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe was smiling the whole time he was here\u2014he had a good time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Bob, one thing I want to do\u2014because I know our listeners want to know\u2014are you and your family watching <em>It\u2019s a Wonderful Life<\/em> on VHS\/DVD?\u00a0 Are you streaming it?\u00a0 Are you showing it on your iPad?\u00a0 How\u2019s it happening at the Lepine household?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s still on the big screen in the den, and it\u2019s coming\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What kind of projector you got?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No, it\u2019s just on the\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, TV. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014flat panel\u2014yes, the big screen TV. We\u2019re still stuck in the old DVD era for this one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You knew how many guests we\u2019d had on the broadcast in 22 years, almost to the number. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>To the number; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right. Do you have any idea how many times you and your family have watched <em>It\u2019s a Wonderful Life<\/em>?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, you know, different family members would be there at different times because we start it early\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, just you, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh, just me?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Just you\u2014there\u2019s only one litmus test on this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019ve watched it enough times that I\u2019ve got pretty much got the whole thing memorized. I can get you\u2014you give me a line, and I can\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think our listeners\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Doubt that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, I don\u2019t think they want that\u2014I don\u2019t think they want that. But I\u2019ll tell you what they do want\u2014they want our address so they can join with us in the end-of-year match, even here on Christmas Eve, because I\u2019ve got to believe there are some listeners going, \u201cI need to give to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and keep them on the air.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click in the upper right-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cI Care,\u201d and make an online donation. That\u2019s the best way to get in touch with us today. Or you can mail a donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. And we would love to hear from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me also mention that Carl Wilson has a book called <em>The Power of New Covenant Love<\/em> that we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. If you\u2019d like to order a copy of the book, again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tClick in the upper left-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d You can order a copy of the book from us, online, if you\u2019d like. Again, it\u2019s called <em>The Power of New Covenant Love<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we do hope you have a <em>merry<\/em> Christmas tomorrow. Hope you and your family are able to be together, and I hope you can tune in. We\u2019re going to talk about joy\u2014how Jesus did bring joy to the world. And I think the question for all of us is: \u201cDo I have that joy in my life?\u201d\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow. Hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2015 FamilyLife. 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