{"id":303281,"date":"2014-11-26T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-11-26T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/building-your-faith\/"},"modified":"2014-11-26T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-11-26T17:00:00","slug":"building-your-faith","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/building-your-faith\/","title":{"rendered":"Building Your Faith"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Owen Strachan encourages believers to step out in faith and achieve great things in Christ&#8217;s name.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-11-26.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.85M","filesize_raw":"23957880","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2821],"tags":[5524,5522,5523],"podcast_series":[8049],"cwp_profile":[9369],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303281","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-reaching-out","tag-live-life-on-the-edge","tag-share-the-gospel","tag-take-a-risk-for-jesus","podcast_series-risky-gospel","cwp_profile-owen-strachan","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303281\/building-your-faith","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303281\/building-your-faith","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"ThCYezlot9\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/building-your-faith\/\">Building Your Faith<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/building-your-faith\/embed\/#?secret=ThCYezlot9\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Building Your Faith&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"ThCYezlot9\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-11-26.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-11-26.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you committed your life to following Jesus, just exactly what did you sign up for?\u00a0 Here\u2019s author, Owen Strachan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Sadly, many modern American churches are structured around getting as many people in as possible and keeping them\u2014and that means feeding people what they want to hear, by and large\u2014sometimes, maybe, challenging them a little bit\u2014but, by and large, keeping things pretty safe. I think many of us want a church to engage us and want the church to call us to a grand adventure, but we\u2019re not hearing that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, November 26<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll talk today about the grand adventure to which we are called, as followers of Jesus. Our guest is Owen Strachan. Stay tuned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, we\u2019ve mentioned this week that our guest is the President of an organization called the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. We\u2019ve been talking about it in the context of a book he wrote, called <em>Risky Gospel<\/em>, but it occurs to me we ought to let our listeners know a little bit about what his organization is up to; don\u2019t you think?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. Owen Strachan joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back, Owen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Owen is the President of the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. He is also a professor at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Boyce College in Louisville. He and his wife Bethany have three children and have been married eight years. Explain to our listeners about the Council and what its purpose is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>So, the Council was founded in 1987 by Wayne Grudem, and John Piper, and a bunch their friends \/ scholarly peers. They were responding to trends in evangelicalism that were pushing churches to embrace what\u2019s called egalitarian theology\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014so, the pastorate being open to both men and women \/ men not being the heads of their homes\u2014so, leadership being open, in both the church and the home, to both men and women. They were saying effectively, \u201cNo, this is not biblically true.\u201d Piper, and Grudem, and others rallied a bunch of folks\u2014started this organization. It incorporated in 1988 and has been advocating for biblical gender roles\u2014a biblical view of manhood and womanhood ever since. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now, those who would disagree with you, at the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, would say: \u201cMen and women are equal. They have equal gifting. They have equal responsibilities. They should be able to do in the church and in the home whatever their gifting equips them to do.\u201d\u00a0 How do you respond?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Yes, we hear that a lot. Men and women, fundamentally, are equal\u2014gloriously equal before the foot of the cross of Jesus Christ. So, we want to be very upfront in saying that\u2014that is a reality of the gospel. When Jesus came, Jesus liberated women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPaul liberated women through the gospel; but, fundamentally, the Bible has certain roles that it asks us to play. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor example, we\u2019re not the head of God\u2014God is the head of us. Children are not the head of their parents. The parents are responsible for training them and leading them. In the same way, men are called, by God, in 1 Timothy 2 and other texts, to be pastors and elders in the church. Men are called by texts like Ephesians 5\/Colossians 3 to be the head of their home and to sacrificially love and lead their wives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is gloriously true, as I\u2019ve said\u2014that we are equal\u2014totally equal. There is no room for patriarchal abuse or something in the church. That\u2019s not biblically-sanctioned at all. But that is not to say that God has not called certain persons to leadership and to certain roles. Christianity does not make us gender neutral blobs\u2014Gospel Teletubbies\u2014it makes us fully-enfranchised men and women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And that\u2019s more relevant today than perhaps it\u2019s been all the way back to 1988, when the Council was originally formed\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because, today, we\u2019re, not only redefining men and women and what they do within their gender, but we\u2019re now redefining manhood and womanhood into\u2014well, Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> has\u2014what is it?\u2014over 50\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014different types of gender selections. Now, parents need to know, as their kids go online, they are going to face some of these issues. They need to understand what it means to uniquely be a man and not a woman and to uniquely be a woman and not a man\u2014and there is a difference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, one of the reasons you wrote the book, <em>Stepping Up<\/em>, for men was to talk to men about God\u2019s unique call on us, as men. It\u2019s one of the reasons we put together the video series, out that book\u2014that guys can get together with other guys and explore: \u201cWhat\u2019s God calling me to, as a man?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if folks are interested in finding out more about the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, they can go to FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ve got a link there to your website, and they can learn more about all that you are up to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and how you\u2019re engaged in this issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Owen, you have also written a book called <em>Risky Gospel<\/em>. In this book, you are calling people to ease out on a ledge and live by faith\u2014not walking by sight \/ not being held captive by our fears and doubts\u2014but to believe God and trust God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to take you to a moment in your life, where you were facing a test of faith and you failed; okay?\u00a0 You think about it for a second, and I\u2019ll share one; alright?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Okay; alright. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I was thinking about this question\u2014I was thinking I was with a group of Christian leaders one time. The leader of the group asked us all to stand if we believed this certain venture needed to continue on. I was seated next to one of my closest friends\u2014who it was his livelihood \/ it was his assignment\u2014and I did not believe it ought to continue. All my peers, except two, stood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGuess what I did?\u2014I stood. I went against what I believed needed to happen. I waffled under peer pressure, in the context of a group of Christian leaders, who were supposed to be standing on behalf of truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember, looking at one of the guys, across the circle, who remained seated. I thought: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 I admired your courage to withstand the lure of caving into peer pressure,\u201d\u2014even though it was good Christian peer pressure. And this was about a spiritual ministry that needed, frankly, I think, to be shut down; but a bunch of us voted to keep it going. I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s the guy who has got conviction.\u201d\u00a0 I didn\u2019t have it. I look back on that as one of the biggest failed tests of faith I have ever faced in my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat about you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Well, I can say that, in my own life, I\u2019ve had a number of instances where I\u2019ve had an opportunity to share the gospel; for example, with friends or family members. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMany of my family members, back in New England, are not Christians. I\u2019ve had that opportunity\u2014that we\u2019re all familiar with, as Christians \/ as evangelicals, who want to share the gospel, where I could bridge to the gospel\u2014I could share the truth about Jesus\u00a0 Christ \/ His death and resurrection being our means of salvation\u2014and I didn\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, something that is not as dramatic as your example but is, perhaps, more common for many of us believers. I understand that everyday temptation to fear and to put your faith under a bushel\u2014to use that language from Matthew\u2019s Gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I love the quote you have in a chapter entitled, \u201cRisky Spirituality: Building a Stronger Faith.\u201d You quote C.S. Lewis, who in the book, <em>The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe<\/em>, was speaking about Aslan. Of course, Aslan is Jesus Christ\u2014it\u2019s the king\/it\u2019s the lion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tC.S. Lewis says in the book, \u201cHe\u2019s wild, you know\u2014not like a tame lion,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the God we serve. Our God is mischievous\u2014He is not going to be put in a box. He is Almighty God, and He wants us to venture out and trust Him for greater and greater things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of my favorite quotes is by A.W. Tozer. It\u2019s been awhile since I\u2019ve quoted this on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Bob. You know what it is too. He said: \u201cGod is looking for people through whom He can do the impossible. What a pity we plan to do the things we can only do by ourselves.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if the God of the universe, who created billions of galaxies\u2014if that\u2019s who God is\u2014and He loves you and He\u2019s got a plan for your life, what does He want you to uniquely do? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love asking people the question, \u201cWhat would you do if you knew you could not fail?\u201d\u00a0 I think, many times, our fear of failure keeps us from having a risky faith. We\u2019re afraid, if we do share our faith with our family member, they\u2019ll reject us even further\u2014or with a friend or at work: \u201cIt\u2019ll limit the ability for me to get a better job in my place of work\u201d; but it may be those moments which, ultimately, call out a courage out of our chest that cause our faith to grow and touch other people\u2019s lives in an infectious way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Owen: <\/strong>Yes, there is something missing in modern Christianity\u2014that you\u2019re hitting on\u2014and that is a sense of excitement and adventure. There have been different authors over the years\u2014in recent years, even\u2014that have called for this kind of faith. John Eldredge is one. I do not affirm his theology\u2014what\u2019s called his open theism\u2014but he was getting at something that is true in the Bible, when he called people to recognize that following Jesus was not supposed to be safe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s supposed to be joyful, in biblical terms; but it\u2019s not supposed to be safe and easy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I think that instinct\u2014wanting Jesus to give us a cup of hot cocoa, and put a gospel snuggie around our shoulders, tuck us in at night, and say warm and soft things to us every day\u2014day after day after day\u2014is dampening many of us and causing many of us not to dream big dreams for Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I don\u2019t only mean world evangelism, church planting, and these kinds of things\u2014though, I think that\u2019s the forefront of what we\u2019re talking about\u2014but also, \u201cWhat about having a big vision for your family?\u201d\u2014going beyond just: \u201cYes, we\u2019re raising the kids. They\u2019re kind of tough, and it\u2019s kind of boring; but we\u2019re trying to do.\u201d Or: \u201cWhat about having a big vision for your church?\u201d\u2014not necessarily for the pastor\u2014but you\u2019re a deacon or you\u2019re lay member: \u201cHow can you build into your church such that it becomes a God-glorifying \/ God-centered place?\u00a0 How can you pour the lemonade or the coffee, arrange the cookies, bake the meatloaf, week by week, such that this church grows in the love of God?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMany of us aren\u2019t even asking those questions\u2014we\u2019re just thankful to show up. Something needs to change!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and part of what you are saying in the book is a lot of churches aren\u2019t challenging people to live risky, adventurous, gospel-centered lives. In fact, there\u2019s a section in your book that you didn\u2019t write. The good news is you gave attribution to who did write it\u2014it\u2019s not just a plagiarism issue here. [Laughter] But there is a section in the book where you turn things over to somebody who had an experience with church. She was not a churchgoer\u2014she went to kind of check church out. Tell us about what she found. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Yes, so, this was a young woman\u2014trained at a secular liberal arts college in Maine. She is a writer for <em>Salon<\/em>\u2014an online secular culture and arts magazine. She went to a major church in Texas and found herself drawn to the powerful music and the self-help preaching of this place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSadly, she was missing something that she sort of knew that she was craving. She wasn\u2019t hearing about Jesus\u2014she wasn\u2019t hearing about the gospel. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTragically, I think this is where a lot of people are today\u2014even in evangelical mega churches. They know that there is something grand\u2014a big story out there that they need \/ that they want\u2014but they don\u2019t know exactly what it is, and they don\u2019t hear that gospel articulated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She was getting motivation, but she wasn\u2019t getting a gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Owen: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right. She heard plenty of self-help but not the call to die in Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And your challenge to young pastors today is a challenge to not soft-sell what the Bible says, but to confront it head-on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right. I think young pastors\u2014people who are members of churches\u2014need to be part of building a spirit in our churches where we don\u2019t want our pastors to just make us feel better. We want them to challenge us and call us to become something grander and better than we would be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had a basketball coach when I was 12. I was about 3\u201910\u201d\u2014well, maybe that was a little short\u2014I don\u2019t know. [Laughter]\u00a0 I\u2019m going to give myself at least 4\u2019 here. People are thinking: \u201cYikes! Is this guy okay?\u201d\u00a0 You know, I\u2019m 4\u2019 tall\u2014so not going to be a center for the team, shall we say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>But he looked at me\u2014he saw that I had been working on my game \/ working on my ball handling\u2014this sort of thing. I used to wear my fingertips out\u2014dribbling a basketball so much in the summer. He said: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 I think you can be a starter on a high school basketball team someday.\u201d\u00a0 This was not what I was hearing from my coaches. Something flipped on in me in that moment. I recognized: \u201cWait a minute!\u00a0 Maybe, I\u2019m not going to just be relegated to the side. Maybe, I can actually be a player.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s what we need in church today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re hitting on something that I want to have a little fun with\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014here, going around the circle. There are three of us, here at the table. I\u2019d like to go around the circle a couple of times\u2014three if we have time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, don\u2019t take a long time answering this question\u2014but I want all three of us to answer the question: \u201cWhat has God used to build your faith?\u201d\u00a0 We have a lot of people listening to us, right now. They are going: \u201cOkay, you\u2019re calling something out in me I agree with. I need that. I need to know.\u201d But they need some tips\u2014some coaching\u2014like you got\u2014somebody who is going to believe in them \/ who is going to coach them in knowing where to start and how to\u00a0 start. So, I\u2019ll start first. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that has built my faith in my walk with Christ has been a study of the character of God\u2014finding out who He is. When you see God for who He is, you\u2019re going to be held in your proper place. You\u2019re going to realize He is a great God, and He can be trusted with your faith. That\u2019s called me out of my unbelief and out of my fear on more than one occasion. Bob, you\u2019re next. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I think what\u2019s led me to faith has been previous steps of faith.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I look at the life of Abraham. His first step of faith was when God appears to him in Ur and says, \u201cOkay, come to the land I\u2019ll show you.\u201d\u00a0 He didn\u2019t know much\u2014he responded; but then, he\u2014throughout his life\u2014is subsequently called to the next step of faith and the next step of faith. And I think\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, are you comparing Little Rock to Ur?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No, Nineveh is where I compared\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but the point is\u2014it\u2019s when you respond in faith\u2014it strengthens the faith muscle. So, the next time you are called, you\u2019ve got this muscle memory that says: \u201cYou know, the last time we did that, it worked out okay. Let\u2019s go.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Owen?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Yes, I think of a figure like Chuck Colson\u2014I\u2019m writing a book on him for Thomas Nelson right now. So, I\u2019m knee-deep in amazing stories about Colson. You know, Colson is this guy\u2014he is way high up in the Nixon White House in the early \u201870s. Then, he has this dramatic fall from grace. Once he comes out of prison, he then begins a prison ministry\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014Prison Fellowship known to many of us. I know he was a friend of yours, Dennis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is inspiring to me because it speaks to the renewing power of God. Seeing examples like Colson\u2019s, where here is this guy who is struggling\u2014who is disgraced \/ who has hit pieces written on him by all these major newspapers\u2014and then, he comes out of the very place that was the symbol of his condemnation; and he begins a new gospel-driven ministry that ignites evangelicals to do prison ministry. That\u2019s an inspiring example for me\u2014I derive courage from that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, I think that\u2019s a good one. I could easily echo that. Being around men of faith\u2014it\u2019s a disease \/ you catch it. I\u2019ve had the privilege of rubbing shoulders with guys like Chuck, Bill Bright, Howard Hendricks, H.D. McCarty in Fayetteville, Arkansas\u2014a lot of guys who challenged my faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy next one is going to be from Romans 10\u2014and this is a biblical statement: \u201cSo, faith comes from hearing and hearing through the word of Christ.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the context for this is about the gospel\u2014when we place our faith in Christ for salvation\u2014but the principle is the same\u2014the Bible, and knowing the Bible and what it teaches, and knowing the truths of the Bible and having them stuck in our souls begets faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He calls us away from unbelief and toward obedience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat\u2019s your second one, Bob?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I\u2019m going to hitchhike on what you said because, honestly, I think we are in a day where, as the culture clashes with what the Bible says is true, we are more and more inclined to just ask the same question that Eve asked in Genesis 3: \u201cDid God really say that?\u201d and see if we can find some creative ways to maybe blend what God has said with what the culture is saying. Where that leads you is the same place it led her, which is into sin and into destruction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd honestly, I think the issue of the authority of Scripture in our lives \/ the trustworthiness of Scripture in our lives is, maybe, the defining issue of our day\u2014especially, for a younger generation that is facing a culture that says, \u201cYou can\u2019t believe that and be a sane thinking person!\u201d\u00a0 And you go: \u201cWell, I want to be a witness for Christ. Maybe, I just need to find a way to fudge that a little bit\u201d; you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And by the way, I just have to make a comment on this because I just came from the Creation Museum. Dr. Ken Ham has created a great museum near Cincinnati that is great for family. And he has the statement\u2014that he\u2019s quoting the serpent in the Garden\u2014the serpent said to Eve, \u201cHas God said\u2026?\u201d\u00a0 And it\u2019s the same ploy today\u2014you just mentioned it\u2014we are questioning, \u201cHas God said?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, we are left to go with the flow if we don\u2019t trust the truth of Scripture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat\u2019s your other thing that builds your faith, Owen?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Knowing my identity. Romans 8:37 says that I am more than a conqueror no matter what happens to me\u2014no matter what may befall me. That sense of identity\u2014that I am given there in Christ\u2014is what bolsters me\/gives me confidence. I know my name, so to speak, as a follower of Jesus Christ. I am more than a conqueror no matter what may come. <br><br>And listen, we are in an age where tough stuff may really come. We may face tremendous opposition. So, I need to know that identity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you tell a story, in your book, about a guy named John Joseph, who was confronted with the gospel as an atheist and had to reconsider everything his life had been built on; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. He was doing drugs. He was chasing women. He was leading a classically, dissolute life\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014just running from God as hard as he could\u2014destined for death. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd he rented a Bill Maher video, of all things, and found Maher\u2019s presentation of Christianity to be biased. He started googling on the internet, \u201cChristianity\/atheism debate.\u201d\u00a0 He came across some Ravi Zacharias materials, and then some John Piper materials, and was gloriously converted. I mean, you can\u2019t make this stuff up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I can\u2019t imagine that Bill Maher would have said anything that would\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Well, what I said in my book is that Bill Maher led an atheist to Christ\u2014a little ironic there but kind of true. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No doubt about it. I\u2019m going to add one more thing that builds my faith. It\u2019s\u2014truthfully, books like yours. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s books that stir my soul, away from doubt, toward courage\u2014toward conviction, toward basing my life on the truth of Scripture and the promises of God, and call me away from living and walking by sight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour book, <em>Risky Gospel<\/em>, is one chapter after another calling the reader away from fear\/away from doubt. I just can\u2019t imagine parents not being able to benefit from this\u2014single people who are in the midst of some pretty challenging and tempting situations, where they need to be reminded of the truth and where they need to walk by faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just appreciate you being on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I appreciate your life, your ministry at the Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville, and just appreciate you and getting to know you, Owen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Owen: <\/strong>Thank you so much, Dennis and Bob. It\u2019s been fantastic talking with you. I really appreciate you two as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and once again, if folks are interested in finding out more about the work that you are doing with the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, we\u2019ve got a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com where they can learn about CBMW. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click in the upper left-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ll find the link for the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. You\u2019ll find information about Owen Strachan\u2019s book, <em>Risky Gospel<\/em>, which you can order from the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center, if you\u2019d like. Again, the title of the book is <em>Risky Gospel<\/em>; and you\u2019ll find it, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Or you can call to order at 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, as we\u2019ve talked today about living a life that is full of faith\u2014that is a risky life, not giving into comfort. I\u2019m just reminded of what a countercultural message that is. And really, what we talk about, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, is counter to the culture. When you are talking about things that aren\u2019t in sync with where the majority of folks are, it\u2019s nice to know that you\u2019ve got some friends standing with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd one of the things we are very grateful for, here at FamilyLife, is that we do have some friends who stand with us: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLegacy Partners\u2014who help support this program with monthly donations\u2014and those of you who make end-of-the-year contributions or occasional donations to support the ministry. We could not do what we do without you. Every time we hear from you, it\u2019s just another encouragement to keep on\u2014to stay focused on the mission that God\u2019s called us to\u2014to provide practical biblical help for marriages and families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019ve benefited from the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, but maybe never made a donation, you need to know that someone else made that benefit possible to you by supporting this ministry. And perhaps, today is the day you\u2019d like to step up and make a donation of your own. You can do that, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014click the link at the top of the page, that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d to make an online donation; or call 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, [and then the word, \u201cTODAY,\u201d]\u2014and make a donation over the phone. Or you can mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the zip code is 72223. Of course, we always appreciate hearing from you. We\u2019re thankful for your support of this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow. It will be Thanksgiving Day, here in the United States. We\u2019ll be listening to a message that reminds us to be thankful in all things\u2014even for the common blessings of life. We\u2019ll hear from Gary Thomas tomorrow. Hope you can tune in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. See you tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.85M"],"filesize_raw":["23957880"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303281.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303281.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Strachan encourages believers to step out in faith and achieve great things in Christ's name.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-11-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you committed your life to following Jesus, just exactly what did you sign up for?\u00a0 Here\u2019s author, Owen Strachan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Sadly, many modern American churches are structured around getting as many people in as possible and keeping them\u2014and that means feeding people what they want to hear, by and large\u2014sometimes, maybe, challenging them a little bit\u2014but, by and large, keeping things pretty safe. I think many of us want a church to engage us and want the church to call us to a grand adventure, but we\u2019re not hearing that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, November 26<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll talk today about the grand adventure to which we are called, as followers of Jesus. Our guest is Owen Strachan. Stay tuned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, we\u2019ve mentioned this week that our guest is the President of an organization called the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. We\u2019ve been talking about it in the context of a book he wrote, called <em>Risky Gospel<\/em>, but it occurs to me we ought to let our listeners know a little bit about what his organization is up to; don\u2019t you think?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. Owen Strachan joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back, Owen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Owen is the President of the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. He is also a professor at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Boyce College in Louisville. He and his wife Bethany have three children and have been married eight years. Explain to our listeners about the Council and what its purpose is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>So, the Council was founded in 1987 by Wayne Grudem, and John Piper, and a bunch their friends \/ scholarly peers. They were responding to trends in evangelicalism that were pushing churches to embrace what\u2019s called egalitarian theology\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014so, the pastorate being open to both men and women \/ men not being the heads of their homes\u2014so, leadership being open, in both the church and the home, to both men and women. They were saying effectively, \u201cNo, this is not biblically true.\u201d Piper, and Grudem, and others rallied a bunch of folks\u2014started this organization. It incorporated in 1988 and has been advocating for biblical gender roles\u2014a biblical view of manhood and womanhood ever since. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now, those who would disagree with you, at the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, would say: \u201cMen and women are equal. They have equal gifting. They have equal responsibilities. They should be able to do in the church and in the home whatever their gifting equips them to do.\u201d\u00a0 How do you respond?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Yes, we hear that a lot. Men and women, fundamentally, are equal\u2014gloriously equal before the foot of the cross of Jesus Christ. So, we want to be very upfront in saying that\u2014that is a reality of the gospel. When Jesus came, Jesus liberated women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPaul liberated women through the gospel; but, fundamentally, the Bible has certain roles that it asks us to play. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor example, we\u2019re not the head of God\u2014God is the head of us. Children are not the head of their parents. The parents are responsible for training them and leading them. In the same way, men are called, by God, in 1 Timothy 2 and other texts, to be pastors and elders in the church. Men are called by texts like Ephesians 5\/Colossians 3 to be the head of their home and to sacrificially love and lead their wives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is gloriously true, as I\u2019ve said\u2014that we are equal\u2014totally equal. There is no room for patriarchal abuse or something in the church. That\u2019s not biblically-sanctioned at all. But that is not to say that God has not called certain persons to leadership and to certain roles. Christianity does not make us gender neutral blobs\u2014Gospel Teletubbies\u2014it makes us fully-enfranchised men and women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And that\u2019s more relevant today than perhaps it\u2019s been all the way back to 1988, when the Council was originally formed\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because, today, we\u2019re, not only redefining men and women and what they do within their gender, but we\u2019re now redefining manhood and womanhood into\u2014well, Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> has\u2014what is it?\u2014over 50\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014different types of gender selections. Now, parents need to know, as their kids go online, they are going to face some of these issues. They need to understand what it means to uniquely be a man and not a woman and to uniquely be a woman and not a man\u2014and there is a difference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, one of the reasons you wrote the book, <em>Stepping Up<\/em>, for men was to talk to men about God\u2019s unique call on us, as men. It\u2019s one of the reasons we put together the video series, out that book\u2014that guys can get together with other guys and explore: \u201cWhat\u2019s God calling me to, as a man?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if folks are interested in finding out more about the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, they can go to FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ve got a link there to your website, and they can learn more about all that you are up to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and how you\u2019re engaged in this issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Owen, you have also written a book called <em>Risky Gospel<\/em>. In this book, you are calling people to ease out on a ledge and live by faith\u2014not walking by sight \/ not being held captive by our fears and doubts\u2014but to believe God and trust God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to take you to a moment in your life, where you were facing a test of faith and you failed; okay?\u00a0 You think about it for a second, and I\u2019ll share one; alright?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Okay; alright. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I was thinking about this question\u2014I was thinking I was with a group of Christian leaders one time. The leader of the group asked us all to stand if we believed this certain venture needed to continue on. I was seated next to one of my closest friends\u2014who it was his livelihood \/ it was his assignment\u2014and I did not believe it ought to continue. All my peers, except two, stood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGuess what I did?\u2014I stood. I went against what I believed needed to happen. I waffled under peer pressure, in the context of a group of Christian leaders, who were supposed to be standing on behalf of truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember, looking at one of the guys, across the circle, who remained seated. I thought: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 I admired your courage to withstand the lure of caving into peer pressure,\u201d\u2014even though it was good Christian peer pressure. And this was about a spiritual ministry that needed, frankly, I think, to be shut down; but a bunch of us voted to keep it going. I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s the guy who has got conviction.\u201d\u00a0 I didn\u2019t have it. I look back on that as one of the biggest failed tests of faith I have ever faced in my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat about you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Well, I can say that, in my own life, I\u2019ve had a number of instances where I\u2019ve had an opportunity to share the gospel; for example, with friends or family members. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMany of my family members, back in New England, are not Christians. I\u2019ve had that opportunity\u2014that we\u2019re all familiar with, as Christians \/ as evangelicals, who want to share the gospel, where I could bridge to the gospel\u2014I could share the truth about Jesus\u00a0 Christ \/ His death and resurrection being our means of salvation\u2014and I didn\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, something that is not as dramatic as your example but is, perhaps, more common for many of us believers. I understand that everyday temptation to fear and to put your faith under a bushel\u2014to use that language from Matthew\u2019s Gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I love the quote you have in a chapter entitled, \u201cRisky Spirituality: Building a Stronger Faith.\u201d You quote C.S. Lewis, who in the book, <em>The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe<\/em>, was speaking about Aslan. Of course, Aslan is Jesus Christ\u2014it\u2019s the king\/it\u2019s the lion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tC.S. Lewis says in the book, \u201cHe\u2019s wild, you know\u2014not like a tame lion,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the God we serve. Our God is mischievous\u2014He is not going to be put in a box. He is Almighty God, and He wants us to venture out and trust Him for greater and greater things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of my favorite quotes is by A.W. Tozer. It\u2019s been awhile since I\u2019ve quoted this on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Bob. You know what it is too. He said: \u201cGod is looking for people through whom He can do the impossible. What a pity we plan to do the things we can only do by ourselves.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if the God of the universe, who created billions of galaxies\u2014if that\u2019s who God is\u2014and He loves you and He\u2019s got a plan for your life, what does He want you to uniquely do? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love asking people the question, \u201cWhat would you do if you knew you could not fail?\u201d\u00a0 I think, many times, our fear of failure keeps us from having a risky faith. We\u2019re afraid, if we do share our faith with our family member, they\u2019ll reject us even further\u2014or with a friend or at work: \u201cIt\u2019ll limit the ability for me to get a better job in my place of work\u201d; but it may be those moments which, ultimately, call out a courage out of our chest that cause our faith to grow and touch other people\u2019s lives in an infectious way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Owen: <\/strong>Yes, there is something missing in modern Christianity\u2014that you\u2019re hitting on\u2014and that is a sense of excitement and adventure. There have been different authors over the years\u2014in recent years, even\u2014that have called for this kind of faith. John Eldredge is one. I do not affirm his theology\u2014what\u2019s called his open theism\u2014but he was getting at something that is true in the Bible, when he called people to recognize that following Jesus was not supposed to be safe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s supposed to be joyful, in biblical terms; but it\u2019s not supposed to be safe and easy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I think that instinct\u2014wanting Jesus to give us a cup of hot cocoa, and put a gospel snuggie around our shoulders, tuck us in at night, and say warm and soft things to us every day\u2014day after day after day\u2014is dampening many of us and causing many of us not to dream big dreams for Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I don\u2019t only mean world evangelism, church planting, and these kinds of things\u2014though, I think that\u2019s the forefront of what we\u2019re talking about\u2014but also, \u201cWhat about having a big vision for your family?\u201d\u2014going beyond just: \u201cYes, we\u2019re raising the kids. They\u2019re kind of tough, and it\u2019s kind of boring; but we\u2019re trying to do.\u201d Or: \u201cWhat about having a big vision for your church?\u201d\u2014not necessarily for the pastor\u2014but you\u2019re a deacon or you\u2019re lay member: \u201cHow can you build into your church such that it becomes a God-glorifying \/ God-centered place?\u00a0 How can you pour the lemonade or the coffee, arrange the cookies, bake the meatloaf, week by week, such that this church grows in the love of God?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMany of us aren\u2019t even asking those questions\u2014we\u2019re just thankful to show up. Something needs to change!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and part of what you are saying in the book is a lot of churches aren\u2019t challenging people to live risky, adventurous, gospel-centered lives. In fact, there\u2019s a section in your book that you didn\u2019t write. The good news is you gave attribution to who did write it\u2014it\u2019s not just a plagiarism issue here. [Laughter] But there is a section in the book where you turn things over to somebody who had an experience with church. She was not a churchgoer\u2014she went to kind of check church out. Tell us about what she found. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Yes, so, this was a young woman\u2014trained at a secular liberal arts college in Maine. She is a writer for <em>Salon<\/em>\u2014an online secular culture and arts magazine. She went to a major church in Texas and found herself drawn to the powerful music and the self-help preaching of this place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSadly, she was missing something that she sort of knew that she was craving. She wasn\u2019t hearing about Jesus\u2014she wasn\u2019t hearing about the gospel. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTragically, I think this is where a lot of people are today\u2014even in evangelical mega churches. They know that there is something grand\u2014a big story out there that they need \/ that they want\u2014but they don\u2019t know exactly what it is, and they don\u2019t hear that gospel articulated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She was getting motivation, but she wasn\u2019t getting a gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Owen: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right. She heard plenty of self-help but not the call to die in Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And your challenge to young pastors today is a challenge to not soft-sell what the Bible says, but to confront it head-on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right. I think young pastors\u2014people who are members of churches\u2014need to be part of building a spirit in our churches where we don\u2019t want our pastors to just make us feel better. We want them to challenge us and call us to become something grander and better than we would be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had a basketball coach when I was 12. I was about 3\u201910\u201d\u2014well, maybe that was a little short\u2014I don\u2019t know. [Laughter]\u00a0 I\u2019m going to give myself at least 4\u2019 here. People are thinking: \u201cYikes! Is this guy okay?\u201d\u00a0 You know, I\u2019m 4\u2019 tall\u2014so not going to be a center for the team, shall we say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>But he looked at me\u2014he saw that I had been working on my game \/ working on my ball handling\u2014this sort of thing. I used to wear my fingertips out\u2014dribbling a basketball so much in the summer. He said: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 I think you can be a starter on a high school basketball team someday.\u201d\u00a0 This was not what I was hearing from my coaches. Something flipped on in me in that moment. I recognized: \u201cWait a minute!\u00a0 Maybe, I\u2019m not going to just be relegated to the side. Maybe, I can actually be a player.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s what we need in church today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re hitting on something that I want to have a little fun with\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014here, going around the circle. There are three of us, here at the table. I\u2019d like to go around the circle a couple of times\u2014three if we have time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, don\u2019t take a long time answering this question\u2014but I want all three of us to answer the question: \u201cWhat has God used to build your faith?\u201d\u00a0 We have a lot of people listening to us, right now. They are going: \u201cOkay, you\u2019re calling something out in me I agree with. I need that. I need to know.\u201d But they need some tips\u2014some coaching\u2014like you got\u2014somebody who is going to believe in them \/ who is going to coach them in knowing where to start and how to\u00a0 start. So, I\u2019ll start first. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that has built my faith in my walk with Christ has been a study of the character of God\u2014finding out who He is. When you see God for who He is, you\u2019re going to be held in your proper place. You\u2019re going to realize He is a great God, and He can be trusted with your faith. That\u2019s called me out of my unbelief and out of my fear on more than one occasion. Bob, you\u2019re next. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I think what\u2019s led me to faith has been previous steps of faith.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I look at the life of Abraham. His first step of faith was when God appears to him in Ur and says, \u201cOkay, come to the land I\u2019ll show you.\u201d\u00a0 He didn\u2019t know much\u2014he responded; but then, he\u2014throughout his life\u2014is subsequently called to the next step of faith and the next step of faith. And I think\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, are you comparing Little Rock to Ur?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No, Nineveh is where I compared\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but the point is\u2014it\u2019s when you respond in faith\u2014it strengthens the faith muscle. So, the next time you are called, you\u2019ve got this muscle memory that says: \u201cYou know, the last time we did that, it worked out okay. Let\u2019s go.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Owen?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Yes, I think of a figure like Chuck Colson\u2014I\u2019m writing a book on him for Thomas Nelson right now. So, I\u2019m knee-deep in amazing stories about Colson. You know, Colson is this guy\u2014he is way high up in the Nixon White House in the early \u201870s. Then, he has this dramatic fall from grace. Once he comes out of prison, he then begins a prison ministry\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014Prison Fellowship known to many of us. I know he was a friend of yours, Dennis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is inspiring to me because it speaks to the renewing power of God. Seeing examples like Colson\u2019s, where here is this guy who is struggling\u2014who is disgraced \/ who has hit pieces written on him by all these major newspapers\u2014and then, he comes out of the very place that was the symbol of his condemnation; and he begins a new gospel-driven ministry that ignites evangelicals to do prison ministry. That\u2019s an inspiring example for me\u2014I derive courage from that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, I think that\u2019s a good one. I could easily echo that. Being around men of faith\u2014it\u2019s a disease \/ you catch it. I\u2019ve had the privilege of rubbing shoulders with guys like Chuck, Bill Bright, Howard Hendricks, H.D. McCarty in Fayetteville, Arkansas\u2014a lot of guys who challenged my faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy next one is going to be from Romans 10\u2014and this is a biblical statement: \u201cSo, faith comes from hearing and hearing through the word of Christ.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the context for this is about the gospel\u2014when we place our faith in Christ for salvation\u2014but the principle is the same\u2014the Bible, and knowing the Bible and what it teaches, and knowing the truths of the Bible and having them stuck in our souls begets faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He calls us away from unbelief and toward obedience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat\u2019s your second one, Bob?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I\u2019m going to hitchhike on what you said because, honestly, I think we are in a day where, as the culture clashes with what the Bible says is true, we are more and more inclined to just ask the same question that Eve asked in Genesis 3: \u201cDid God really say that?\u201d and see if we can find some creative ways to maybe blend what God has said with what the culture is saying. Where that leads you is the same place it led her, which is into sin and into destruction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd honestly, I think the issue of the authority of Scripture in our lives \/ the trustworthiness of Scripture in our lives is, maybe, the defining issue of our day\u2014especially, for a younger generation that is facing a culture that says, \u201cYou can\u2019t believe that and be a sane thinking person!\u201d\u00a0 And you go: \u201cWell, I want to be a witness for Christ. Maybe, I just need to find a way to fudge that a little bit\u201d; you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And by the way, I just have to make a comment on this because I just came from the Creation Museum. Dr. Ken Ham has created a great museum near Cincinnati that is great for family. And he has the statement\u2014that he\u2019s quoting the serpent in the Garden\u2014the serpent said to Eve, \u201cHas God said\u2026?\u201d\u00a0 And it\u2019s the same ploy today\u2014you just mentioned it\u2014we are questioning, \u201cHas God said?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, we are left to go with the flow if we don\u2019t trust the truth of Scripture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat\u2019s your other thing that builds your faith, Owen?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Knowing my identity. Romans 8:37 says that I am more than a conqueror no matter what happens to me\u2014no matter what may befall me. That sense of identity\u2014that I am given there in Christ\u2014is what bolsters me\/gives me confidence. I know my name, so to speak, as a follower of Jesus Christ. I am more than a conqueror no matter what may come. <br><br>And listen, we are in an age where tough stuff may really come. We may face tremendous opposition. So, I need to know that identity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you tell a story, in your book, about a guy named John Joseph, who was confronted with the gospel as an atheist and had to reconsider everything his life had been built on; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. He was doing drugs. He was chasing women. He was leading a classically, dissolute life\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014just running from God as hard as he could\u2014destined for death. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd he rented a Bill Maher video, of all things, and found Maher\u2019s presentation of Christianity to be biased. He started googling on the internet, \u201cChristianity\/atheism debate.\u201d\u00a0 He came across some Ravi Zacharias materials, and then some John Piper materials, and was gloriously converted. I mean, you can\u2019t make this stuff up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I can\u2019t imagine that Bill Maher would have said anything that would\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Well, what I said in my book is that Bill Maher led an atheist to Christ\u2014a little ironic there but kind of true. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No doubt about it. I\u2019m going to add one more thing that builds my faith. It\u2019s\u2014truthfully, books like yours. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Owen: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s books that stir my soul, away from doubt, toward courage\u2014toward conviction, toward basing my life on the truth of Scripture and the promises of God, and call me away from living and walking by sight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour book, <em>Risky Gospel<\/em>, is one chapter after another calling the reader away from fear\/away from doubt. I just can\u2019t imagine parents not being able to benefit from this\u2014single people who are in the midst of some pretty challenging and tempting situations, where they need to be reminded of the truth and where they need to walk by faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just appreciate you being on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I appreciate your life, your ministry at the Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville, and just appreciate you and getting to know you, Owen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Owen: <\/strong>Thank you so much, Dennis and Bob. It\u2019s been fantastic talking with you. I really appreciate you two as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and once again, if folks are interested in finding out more about the work that you are doing with the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, we\u2019ve got a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com where they can learn about CBMW. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click in the upper left-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ll find the link for the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. You\u2019ll find information about Owen Strachan\u2019s book, <em>Risky Gospel<\/em>, which you can order from the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center, if you\u2019d like. Again, the title of the book is <em>Risky Gospel<\/em>; and you\u2019ll find it, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Or you can call to order at 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, as we\u2019ve talked today about living a life that is full of faith\u2014that is a risky life, not giving into comfort. I\u2019m just reminded of what a countercultural message that is. And really, what we talk about, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, is counter to the culture. When you are talking about things that aren\u2019t in sync with where the majority of folks are, it\u2019s nice to know that you\u2019ve got some friends standing with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd one of the things we are very grateful for, here at FamilyLife, is that we do have some friends who stand with us: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLegacy Partners\u2014who help support this program with monthly donations\u2014and those of you who make end-of-the-year contributions or occasional donations to support the ministry. We could not do what we do without you. Every time we hear from you, it\u2019s just another encouragement to keep on\u2014to stay focused on the mission that God\u2019s called us to\u2014to provide practical biblical help for marriages and families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019ve benefited from the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, but maybe never made a donation, you need to know that someone else made that benefit possible to you by supporting this ministry. And perhaps, today is the day you\u2019d like to step up and make a donation of your own. You can do that, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014click the link at the top of the page, that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d to make an online donation; or call 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, [and then the word, \u201cTODAY,\u201d]\u2014and make a donation over the phone. Or you can mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the zip code is 72223. Of course, we always appreciate hearing from you. We\u2019re thankful for your support of this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow. It will be Thanksgiving Day, here in the United States. We\u2019ll be listening to a message that reminds us to be thankful in all things\u2014even for the common blessings of life. We\u2019ll hear from Gary Thomas tomorrow. Hope you can tune in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. See you tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303281","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303281"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303281"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303281"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303281"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303281"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303281"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303281"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}