{"id":303245,"date":"2014-10-24T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-10-24T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/my-battle-with-porn\/"},"modified":"2014-10-24T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-10-24T15:00:00","slug":"my-battle-with-porn","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-battle-with-porn\/","title":{"rendered":"My Battle with Porn"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Clarence Shuler talks about his past struggles with pornography. He explains that it wasn&#8217;t until he confessed his addiction to others that he found deliverance from this enslaving habit.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-24.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.91M","filesize_raw":"26121323","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2840,2826],"tags":[2872,2699,5191,2989,5483],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9363],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303245","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-addiction","category-men","tag-addiction","tag-forgiveness","tag-pastor","tag-pornography","tag-speaker","cwp_profile-clarence-shuler","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303245\/my-battle-with-porn","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303245\/my-battle-with-porn","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Q3q6PjLiHb\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-battle-with-porn\/\">My Battle with Porn<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-battle-with-porn\/embed\/#?secret=Q3q6PjLiHb\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;My Battle with Porn&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Q3q6PjLiHb\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-24.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-24.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, October 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Clarence Shuler is not the only man who has had to make that kind of confession to his wife. We\u2019ll hear his story today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019ve got a friend who is with us today to be fairly open and transparent about an issue that he faced square-on in his life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, I bet every listener who is tuning in today probably knows someone or personally has struggled with this issue. It\u2019s the issue of pornography. And Dr. Clarence Shuler, who is a good friend, goes way back. How long have you been on the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage conference speaker team, Clarence?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s\u2014I think this is our 14<sup>th<\/sup> year. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You and Brenda\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014have been speaking at conferences. You have any idea of the number of events you\u2019ve spoken at over the years?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I don\u2019t; I don\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Has to be approaching close to a hundred. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I would think so because there are some seasons we do eight to nine; you know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, Clarence is a father to three. He is a relationship counselor, motivational speaker\u2014I can attest to that\u2014life coach, and author. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe has written a book called <em>Single and Free to Be Me<\/em>, which is a great book for singlehood. We may talk about that in the future sometime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tClarence, I was in New England\u2014at a conference where you were speaking\u2014and I had never heard your story. I sat there, on the front row\u2014and first of all, I appreciated your authenticity and willingness to get real with a group of men who were in attendance there at an Iron Sharpens Iron event\u2014but I thought, \u201cOur listening audience needs to hear this story.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I want to go all the way back to kind of how you grew up and how you found yourself ensnared by pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, how I grew up\u2014I grew up in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, with my mom and dad and my older sister. My parents were very religious. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey did not really become Christians until after I became a Christian and, eventually, led them to Christ my freshman year at Moody, during Thanksgiving. My older sister had been a Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBasketball was kind of my life, growing up in North Carolina. You know, there is basketball, tobacco, and Baptists\u2014pretty much in that order\u2014in North Carolina. [Laughter]\u00a0 So, that was my religion. I went to Moody\u2014you know, single and struggling, wanting to get married\u2014these pretty girls\u2014but you know, just the whole deal\u2014finished Moody, and I was just still single. So, you just begin to struggle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it was when I was in Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary\u2014one of my buddies gave me a TV. He said, \u201cThis is a TV you can look at, but don\u2019t go to these channels.\u201d\u00a0 When he said, \u201c\u2026don\u2019t go to those channels\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>\u2014that didn\u2019t really help me because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You automatically went for those channels. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>\u2014I went to those channels. I started seeing things. I said, \u201cWow!\u201d and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you were at a seminary\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I was at a seminary, preparing for full-time ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. And just so our listeners know, this is not an unusual story for men, studying in seminary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, the issue is access. And today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>It\u2019s everywhere. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014access is anywhere and everywhere. So, the bait is right in front of you. As long as you\u2019ve got a screen, you\u2019ve got some kind of access to pornography. You had to have been exposed to pornography when you were growing up; weren\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>You know, in the African American community, everybody raises you. So, back then\u2014because I\u2019m almost as old as Bob\u2014they would\u2014<em>Playboy<\/em> and everything was just kind of out at the grocery store. I remember my friend and me\u2014I think we were 12 or 14\u2014and we picked up one and looked at it. Some lady came and smacked us both upside the head. So, we put it down. So, we\u2014[Laughter]\u2014so, it was a big deal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut in seminary, is when I really\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it didn\u2019t really\u2014I saw it \/ I liked it, but it didn\u2019t really hold me. It wasn\u2019t until I was actually working as a home missionary for the Southern Baptist \/ working with the National Baptist Convention. I was at my pastor\u2019s house. He had all the channels. He and his wife went to bed. I\u2019m staying up late. I\u2019m flicking channels because I didn\u2019t have a TV. I hit the <em>Playboy<\/em> station, and I kind of stuck there. Unfortunately, I just watched that; and I was hooked. I began to struggle with this thing of being a Christian \/ being a minister\u2014an ordained minister\u2014and struggling with the whole issue of pornography. So, that was kind of where I was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I can say that you have hit on something that I think any man, who is honest\u2014who has checked into a hotel\u2014or maybe if he does have the channels in his home\u2014which we don\u2019t, on purpose\u2014but by the way, you can even have a real basic cable package; and you have access to stuff that it\u2019s really dangerous to be channel surfing. I mean, whether you are in a hotel\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014room or in your home, channel surfing is a dangerous hobby. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, I learned that the hard way. Then, I just travelled and struggled in this whole cycle of committing a sin, feeling guilty, asking God for forgiveness, not feeling forgiveness, and then, wanting to do something to feel worthy\u2014or clean again. But there is nothing you can do to self-help yourself. So, it was really kind of a sad situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There isn\u2019t a cultural standard\u2014not that that needs to be there to replace the biblical standard\u2014but there is not a lot, in culture today, to encourage us to step away from this stuff. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>There\u2019s not. And unfortunately\u2014and it\u2019s not to beat people up\u2014but even when you go to church\u2014you don\u2019t hear a lot of messages on marriage, you don\u2019t hear things being single, and you don\u2019t hear a lot about this whole idea of being pure\u2014what\u2019s involved in that whole process. You don\u2019t hear a lot of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me go back to you being involved in ministry. You\u2019d been exposed. The hook had been set\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014as you\u2019d seen stuff on TV, but you didn\u2019t have regular access to pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No, I did not. I did not. It was right before computers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Then, even when computers came out, you couldn\u2019t afford this. So, I was kind of a\u2014that was a struggle. But there would be times\u2014it could be a hotel room or something like that because I was travelling around the state doing stuff. You could\u2014you would see something, and you get convicted. It was\u2014you\u2019d get in trouble, and that was a terrible thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you\u2019d get convicted. What would you do with your conviction?\u00a0 I mean, I can imagine that you were praying, and repenting, and asking God to take this from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, for a long time, Bob, I was in denial. I thought I could control it. I thought it was no big deal. I did not realize, at the time, that I was in slavery to it; and so I would sin. I would get convicted or\u2014and there were some times I could go for weeks or months without doing it\u2014but then, there were other times I would lapse into it\u2014or if things didn\u2019t go well \/ you\u2019re disappointed, you would go back because it would make you feel good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was pretty destructive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne clear time I knew I was out of control was\u2014I was going to preach at this church. The Saturday night before\u2014I had a hotel room\u2014committed sin with pornography\u2014supposed to preach the next day. I was so convicted\u2014they guy was telling what a moral guy I am because I was not sleeping around and stuff like that. I was sitting there, and it was time for me to get up to speak. So, I get up and, Dennis, I was so blown away that I couldn\u2019t really say anything\u2014I was just kind of standing there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was at a black church, and they just thought I was in the Spirit. But then, I asked God for forgiveness that night. I asked Him for forgiveness before I spoke, and I spoke probably one of the most powerful experiences I ever had\u2014preaching the Word of God\u2014but I still didn\u2019t really get it. I was just still struggling with this whole addiction thing\u2014I was off and on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How did it impact your relationship with the opposite sex?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, as a single guy, you\u2019ve got this outlet, over here, in the fantasy world. Did it cause you to escape to the fantasy world and pursue that rather than a real relationship with a real person?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, here is the deal. For me, when you are around Christian girls, who are like your friends, I found it lowered my sex drive. When you didn\u2019t have those relationships with the opposite sex, who were your friends, then, I tended to see girls as sex objects. That was kind of the struggle that I kind of had with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really wasn\u2019t dating a lot because most of the girls that I was running into\u2014even in church\u2014were not necessarily believers. They were religious but not believers. So, I kind of had this really hypocrisy type thing going on as far as my doctrine, salvation, and then, wrestling. I would tell myself, \u201cWell, I was by myself.\u201d I said: \u201cWell, at least, I\u2019m not affecting anybody else. I\u2019m not having any sex. So, I\u2019m still, technically, a virgin.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was kind of the lie that I would justify \/ I would do when I fell into sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Was this an issue in your life when you met your wife Brenda?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I was wrestling back and forth with that. Actually, I didn\u2019t go back and struggle with it as much when I was with her; and I thought, \u201cWell, hey, when I get married, it won\u2019t be an issue.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But it was in the background. She didn\u2019t know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that any of this was going on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Noooo\u2014no. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there were still episodes. There were still times\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I was consistently inconsistent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. So, your thinking was, \u201cWhen I get married, then, that will be the cure for my pornography issue.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. \u201cI\u2019ll be having sex on a regular basis. So, there won\u2019t be a need for pornography.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, after you got married, was that what happened?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No, I would still struggle. If we were having conflicts, then, she\u2019d go to bed; I\u2019d stay up, watch pornography, and you know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you have a stash?\u00a0 Or did you have access on cable or what?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, periodically, we\u2019d have\u2014well, what we used to do\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014during the summer\u2014we\u2019d have cable so I could watch tennis\u2014Wimbledon or whatever was on it. Well, with that cable package came\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A month of free premium channels or something. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. So, that was kind of how we were doing it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you were justifying, now, in marriage, what was going on because you\u2019d have a fight with Brenda\u2014and I mean if she\u2019s going to freeze you out, you\u2019ve got to take care of yourself somehow; huh?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I hate to say it that way, but that was kind of the way I was acting out, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, how long did this charade take place?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Let\u2019s see, I was addicted for 11 years. I was married in \u201985. It was in \u201994 that God graciously delivered me from my pornography addiction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you talk about those nine years in your marriage, when this was an issue\u2014and years before that\u2014but the nine years in your marriage\u2014were you looking at pornography monthly?\u2014more regularly than that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I would say probably monthly. It wasn\u2019t every week \/ it wasn\u2019t every two weeks. It would just be sporadic, but I would say probably once a month or so I would\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Anybody know?\u00a0 Did you tell\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No. See, the thing\u2014I was so devious with it because this was before the internet. So, I would actually have to go to a\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A video store. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>\u2014book store \/ a video store. I would get the video and come home, sneak it, watch it, and then, get it back to the store; you know?\u00a0 So, it was not good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what caused you to come clean and talk to Brenda about it?\u00a0 Or was that the way it happened?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, what happened was\u2014in the mid-90s \/ right around \u201994\u2014Henry Blackaby, you know\u2014<em>Experiencing God<\/em>\u2014who was going around the country with a guy named John Avann [uncertain of spelling]\u2014they would tell their story together. People would come confess their sins. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was at two of these events because I was working on staff for the Southern Baptist Convention for the state of Illinois. I said, \u201cGod, I can\u2019t do this.\u201d\u00a0 Well, I finally go up in front of men and women\u2014confessed my sin of pornography\u2014had not planned on it\u2014just confessed. The older men in that room\u2014they had a chair\u2014had me sit down, and they came and laid hands on me and prayed over me. They loved me, and that was it. But because I hadn\u2019t planned on doing that, I said, \u201cI\u2019ve got to go tell Brenda because I want to get to her before somebody else does.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>The hardest thing I\u2019ve ever done in my life\u2014was going to sit down and tell this woman\u2014this beautiful woman who loves me\u2014I said, \u201cI\u2019ve been addicted to pornography.\u201d\u00a0 I said: \u201cI\u2019ve been addicted for 11 years before we got married. I brought it into our marriage, and I have no excuse. I\u2019m sorry. Will you forgive me?\u201d\u00a0 That was the most difficult thing I\u2019ve ever done in my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd she did\u2014she said, \u201cI\u2019ll forgive you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEver since that day, she has never ever \/ even in the heat of battle, ever brought up my pornography addiction. I tell this story because the more I share it the harder it is for me to go back; but also, I know it helps people in the audience who are struggling with it. But my misery has now become my ministry\u2014where I am helping a lot of guys\u2014whether they\u2019re in the NFL, next door, whatever\u2014this whole pornography issue\u2014and even women. That\u2019s kind of what we do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Clarence, I want you to go back to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014when you broke the news to Brenda. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How did she respond?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, she was stunned because she didn\u2019t know, and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She had <em>no<\/em> hint\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>\u2014she had no hint. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that any of this had been going on with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No. So, she just\u2014she didn\u2019t cry. She just kind of looked at me. She was stunned, but she just\u2014you have to know Brenda. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe\u2014sometimes, she internalizes stuff\u2014so we just\u2014we didn\u2019t talk much about it. She wanted to know how long it was going on\u2014with that\u2014a bunch of questions. We began to process some of that, but this weight came off my shoulders. I knew God had forgiven me. I knew there were consequences to it, but I just\u2014getting clean\u2014I can\u2019t tell you how important that was for me just to get to that. I would have taken whatever they had done at that time because I was pretty broken. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There are a couple of things I want to say right here\u2014one is to the man who may be feeling the need to go to his wife right now. He needs to understand that what may represent freedom to him\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and a release from the shame ends up being a can of garbage dumped upon somebody and into someone else\u2019s life\u2014and that being your wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can\u2019t expect your wife, necessarily, to respond like Brenda did. You\u2019ve got to give your wife some time to process and ultimately move toward forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, I talk about that in my marriage book\u2014that the way I did it was not the best way to do it. I think for men\u2014we can confess our sin, and we\u2019re kind of done with it because we do that\u2014but for women\u2014because they think differently \/ they\u2019re wired differently\u2014she\u2019s got to process that. Who she is, as a woman, is all brought into that. She\u2019s wondering, \u201cCan I compete with these airbrushed women?\u201d\u2014all stuff like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Clarence: <\/strong>All that stuff, she\u2019s got to go through: \u201cCan I trust you again, now?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cHow could you do that?\u2026for so many years?!\u201d\u00a0 All those things\u2014\u201cWhat we have\u2014is that a lie?\u201d\u00a0 I mean, there are just tons and tons of questions that you have to sit there and be able to try and answer honestly. It\u2019s hard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I think the other thing is you have to understand that you are the betrayer \/ she\u2019s the betrayed. So, how her emotional healing works out\u2014like you said\u2014everyone is not going to be like Brenda\u2014it takes time. So, you have to be willing to pay the consequences for the crime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Clarence, that was 20 years ago that you shared with Brenda. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Wow, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You slipped up since then?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You been tempted?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And how do you fight the temptation?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I kind of look at the bigger circle \/ bigger picture that\u2014and it\u2019s not an emotional deal\u2014it\u2019s just I don\u2019t want to go back. And then, I think God is so great\u2014He\u2019s been so good to me, and I\u2019m enjoying what I\u2019m doing now. I don\u2019t want to mess that up. I don\u2019t want Him to have to spank me again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>What I do now\u2014I really focus on guarding my eyes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when a woman is dressed\u2014and she has a lot\u2014showing cleavage\u2014I just turn my head. I don\u2019t initiate hugging women. I mean, sometimes you can\u2019t escape it because they grab you\u2014but I\u2014so, just a lot of things. I\u2019ve self\u2014I kind of self-police myself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother thing is\u2014when I told Brenda, I immediately called my best friends, whom she knew and trusted. I thought it was really important that she trusted this guy, and he asked me all kinds of questions: \u201cWhat do you see?\u00a0 What do you look at?\u201d\u00a0 So, when I go to a hotel room, it\u2019s ESPN or nothing; you know?\u00a0 So\u2014because I know, after ten o\u2019clock, there is nothing good on these premium channels\u2014so I\u2019ve had to really just police myself and pull back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mentioned, earlier, that there were two things that I had to say to men. One was\u2014as you tell your wife, give her time to process. She\u2019s not going to flip a switch\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Right; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and move through this. <br><br>The second thing, really, is the first step. It\u2019s 1 John 1:9. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Apostle John writes: \u201cIf we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His Word is not in us.\u201d I just want to remind the guy, who feels ensnared\u2014that God doesn\u2019t relate to us on the basis of what we deserve. He relates to us out of His character of grace and forgiveness. He is ready to forgive that man\u2014or, for that matter, that woman\u2014who turns to Him to confess a matter and to deal with it. Frankly, that\u2019s the first step\u2014before you go to your spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, let me encourage our listeners\u2014go to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. If you click, in the upper left-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d there\u2019s a link there that says, \u201cStepping Up.\u201d There are a couple of video clips that are a part of the <em>Stepping Up<\/em><em><sup>\u2122<\/sup><\/em> video series that I think would be good for guys to watch if they\u2019ve wrestled with this issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of them is a testimony from a guest we\u2019ve had on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Chris Beall, and his wife, Cindy\u2014talking about how this struggle with pornography almost destroyed his marriage and his ministry. And then, there is another clip that shows a guy wrestling with the temptation, not to look at pornography, but to contact an old friend, online. I mean, these are the kinds of real-life things that guys are wrestling with; and it\u2019s a part of what we try to address in the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series for men. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, let me encourage guys\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click in the upper left-hand corner, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d Look at these two video clips from the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series. In fact, we are hoping that, as you watch these clips, you would consider taking a group of guys through the material with you, starting in the new year. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur team has set a goal to try to get 50,000 men mobilized to go through the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> material, starting in the first month of the year. In fact, they want to rename the first month of the year\u2014call it \u201cManuary.\u201d Their desire is that guys, all across the country, would say: \u201cI\u2019ll lead a group. I can get five or six guys \/ I can get fathers and sons \/ I can get the guys at our church; and we\u2019ll go through this ten-week <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series and all of us get trained on what godly, biblical manhood ought to look like in our lives.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRight now, if you\u2019re ready to go ahead and order, at least, ten workbooks to take, at least, ten guys through the material with you, we\u2019ll give you the DVDs for free. So, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for all the details on the offer that we are making available this week and next week. It\u2019s going to expire at the end of the month. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if you want to take some guys through the <em>Stepping Up <\/em>material\u2014you\u2019re ready to go ahead and sign up for that and you\u2019d like to save some money\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click in the upper left-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d Then, click the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> link and find out more about the series or order the series from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also call 1-800-FL-TODAY if you have any questions or if you\u2019d like to order over the phone\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 Or again, find what you need, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, a quick word of, \u201cThanks,\u201d to the folks who make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible\u2014and that\u2019s you, if you\u2019ve ever made a donation to help support this ministry. The donations you make all go to help pay for the costs of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. We are grateful for the listeners who pitch in and help make it all possible\u2014couldn\u2019t do it without you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRight now, if you can make a donation, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a resource that Barbara Rainey has developed as a part of her Ever Thine Home<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> collection of resources. This is a chalkboard in the shape of a house. At the top of it, it says, \u201cIn this home we give thanks for.\u201d\u00a0 Then, you can write the things you are thankful for on the chalkboard. Great way to cultivate gratitude in your family, and it\u2019s a beautiful-looking chalkboard as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s our thank-you gift when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click in the upper right-hand corner of the screen\u2014the button that says, \u201cI Care.\u201d\u00a0 Make an online donation, and we\u2019ll send the chalkboard to you; or you can request the chalkboard when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone. You can also request the chalkboard when mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. And the zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd with that, we\u2019ve got to wrap things up for this week. Thanks for being with us. Hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday. Our friend, Ed Welch, is going to be here. We\u2019re going to talk about how people can get paralyzed by worrying about what other people think about them. We\u2019ll talk about how you deal with that kind of paralysis and why we care so much what other people think. Hope you can join us for that conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. 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Shuler talks about his past struggles with pornography. He explains that it wasn't until he confessed his addiction to others that he found deliverance from this enslaving habit.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-24.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, October 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Clarence Shuler is not the only man who has had to make that kind of confession to his wife. We\u2019ll hear his story today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019ve got a friend who is with us today to be fairly open and transparent about an issue that he faced square-on in his life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, I bet every listener who is tuning in today probably knows someone or personally has struggled with this issue. It\u2019s the issue of pornography. And Dr. Clarence Shuler, who is a good friend, goes way back. How long have you been on the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage conference speaker team, Clarence?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s\u2014I think this is our 14<sup>th<\/sup> year. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You and Brenda\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014have been speaking at conferences. You have any idea of the number of events you\u2019ve spoken at over the years?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I don\u2019t; I don\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Has to be approaching close to a hundred. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I would think so because there are some seasons we do eight to nine; you know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, Clarence is a father to three. He is a relationship counselor, motivational speaker\u2014I can attest to that\u2014life coach, and author. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe has written a book called <em>Single and Free to Be Me<\/em>, which is a great book for singlehood. We may talk about that in the future sometime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tClarence, I was in New England\u2014at a conference where you were speaking\u2014and I had never heard your story. I sat there, on the front row\u2014and first of all, I appreciated your authenticity and willingness to get real with a group of men who were in attendance there at an Iron Sharpens Iron event\u2014but I thought, \u201cOur listening audience needs to hear this story.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I want to go all the way back to kind of how you grew up and how you found yourself ensnared by pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, how I grew up\u2014I grew up in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, with my mom and dad and my older sister. My parents were very religious. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey did not really become Christians until after I became a Christian and, eventually, led them to Christ my freshman year at Moody, during Thanksgiving. My older sister had been a Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBasketball was kind of my life, growing up in North Carolina. You know, there is basketball, tobacco, and Baptists\u2014pretty much in that order\u2014in North Carolina. [Laughter]\u00a0 So, that was my religion. I went to Moody\u2014you know, single and struggling, wanting to get married\u2014these pretty girls\u2014but you know, just the whole deal\u2014finished Moody, and I was just still single. So, you just begin to struggle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it was when I was in Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary\u2014one of my buddies gave me a TV. He said, \u201cThis is a TV you can look at, but don\u2019t go to these channels.\u201d\u00a0 When he said, \u201c\u2026don\u2019t go to those channels\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>\u2014that didn\u2019t really help me because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You automatically went for those channels. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>\u2014I went to those channels. I started seeing things. I said, \u201cWow!\u201d and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you were at a seminary\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I was at a seminary, preparing for full-time ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. And just so our listeners know, this is not an unusual story for men, studying in seminary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, the issue is access. And today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>It\u2019s everywhere. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014access is anywhere and everywhere. So, the bait is right in front of you. As long as you\u2019ve got a screen, you\u2019ve got some kind of access to pornography. You had to have been exposed to pornography when you were growing up; weren\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>You know, in the African American community, everybody raises you. So, back then\u2014because I\u2019m almost as old as Bob\u2014they would\u2014<em>Playboy<\/em> and everything was just kind of out at the grocery store. I remember my friend and me\u2014I think we were 12 or 14\u2014and we picked up one and looked at it. Some lady came and smacked us both upside the head. So, we put it down. So, we\u2014[Laughter]\u2014so, it was a big deal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut in seminary, is when I really\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it didn\u2019t really\u2014I saw it \/ I liked it, but it didn\u2019t really hold me. It wasn\u2019t until I was actually working as a home missionary for the Southern Baptist \/ working with the National Baptist Convention. I was at my pastor\u2019s house. He had all the channels. He and his wife went to bed. I\u2019m staying up late. I\u2019m flicking channels because I didn\u2019t have a TV. I hit the <em>Playboy<\/em> station, and I kind of stuck there. Unfortunately, I just watched that; and I was hooked. I began to struggle with this thing of being a Christian \/ being a minister\u2014an ordained minister\u2014and struggling with the whole issue of pornography. So, that was kind of where I was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I can say that you have hit on something that I think any man, who is honest\u2014who has checked into a hotel\u2014or maybe if he does have the channels in his home\u2014which we don\u2019t, on purpose\u2014but by the way, you can even have a real basic cable package; and you have access to stuff that it\u2019s really dangerous to be channel surfing. I mean, whether you are in a hotel\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014room or in your home, channel surfing is a dangerous hobby. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, I learned that the hard way. Then, I just travelled and struggled in this whole cycle of committing a sin, feeling guilty, asking God for forgiveness, not feeling forgiveness, and then, wanting to do something to feel worthy\u2014or clean again. But there is nothing you can do to self-help yourself. So, it was really kind of a sad situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There isn\u2019t a cultural standard\u2014not that that needs to be there to replace the biblical standard\u2014but there is not a lot, in culture today, to encourage us to step away from this stuff. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>There\u2019s not. And unfortunately\u2014and it\u2019s not to beat people up\u2014but even when you go to church\u2014you don\u2019t hear a lot of messages on marriage, you don\u2019t hear things being single, and you don\u2019t hear a lot about this whole idea of being pure\u2014what\u2019s involved in that whole process. You don\u2019t hear a lot of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me go back to you being involved in ministry. You\u2019d been exposed. The hook had been set\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014as you\u2019d seen stuff on TV, but you didn\u2019t have regular access to pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No, I did not. I did not. It was right before computers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Then, even when computers came out, you couldn\u2019t afford this. So, I was kind of a\u2014that was a struggle. But there would be times\u2014it could be a hotel room or something like that because I was travelling around the state doing stuff. You could\u2014you would see something, and you get convicted. It was\u2014you\u2019d get in trouble, and that was a terrible thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you\u2019d get convicted. What would you do with your conviction?\u00a0 I mean, I can imagine that you were praying, and repenting, and asking God to take this from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, for a long time, Bob, I was in denial. I thought I could control it. I thought it was no big deal. I did not realize, at the time, that I was in slavery to it; and so I would sin. I would get convicted or\u2014and there were some times I could go for weeks or months without doing it\u2014but then, there were other times I would lapse into it\u2014or if things didn\u2019t go well \/ you\u2019re disappointed, you would go back because it would make you feel good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was pretty destructive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne clear time I knew I was out of control was\u2014I was going to preach at this church. The Saturday night before\u2014I had a hotel room\u2014committed sin with pornography\u2014supposed to preach the next day. I was so convicted\u2014they guy was telling what a moral guy I am because I was not sleeping around and stuff like that. I was sitting there, and it was time for me to get up to speak. So, I get up and, Dennis, I was so blown away that I couldn\u2019t really say anything\u2014I was just kind of standing there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was at a black church, and they just thought I was in the Spirit. But then, I asked God for forgiveness that night. I asked Him for forgiveness before I spoke, and I spoke probably one of the most powerful experiences I ever had\u2014preaching the Word of God\u2014but I still didn\u2019t really get it. I was just still struggling with this whole addiction thing\u2014I was off and on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How did it impact your relationship with the opposite sex?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, as a single guy, you\u2019ve got this outlet, over here, in the fantasy world. Did it cause you to escape to the fantasy world and pursue that rather than a real relationship with a real person?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, here is the deal. For me, when you are around Christian girls, who are like your friends, I found it lowered my sex drive. When you didn\u2019t have those relationships with the opposite sex, who were your friends, then, I tended to see girls as sex objects. That was kind of the struggle that I kind of had with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really wasn\u2019t dating a lot because most of the girls that I was running into\u2014even in church\u2014were not necessarily believers. They were religious but not believers. So, I kind of had this really hypocrisy type thing going on as far as my doctrine, salvation, and then, wrestling. I would tell myself, \u201cWell, I was by myself.\u201d I said: \u201cWell, at least, I\u2019m not affecting anybody else. I\u2019m not having any sex. So, I\u2019m still, technically, a virgin.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was kind of the lie that I would justify \/ I would do when I fell into sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Was this an issue in your life when you met your wife Brenda?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I was wrestling back and forth with that. Actually, I didn\u2019t go back and struggle with it as much when I was with her; and I thought, \u201cWell, hey, when I get married, it won\u2019t be an issue.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But it was in the background. She didn\u2019t know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that any of this was going on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Noooo\u2014no. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there were still episodes. There were still times\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I was consistently inconsistent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. So, your thinking was, \u201cWhen I get married, then, that will be the cure for my pornography issue.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. \u201cI\u2019ll be having sex on a regular basis. So, there won\u2019t be a need for pornography.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, after you got married, was that what happened?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No, I would still struggle. If we were having conflicts, then, she\u2019d go to bed; I\u2019d stay up, watch pornography, and you know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you have a stash?\u00a0 Or did you have access on cable or what?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, periodically, we\u2019d have\u2014well, what we used to do\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014during the summer\u2014we\u2019d have cable so I could watch tennis\u2014Wimbledon or whatever was on it. Well, with that cable package came\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A month of free premium channels or something. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. So, that was kind of how we were doing it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you were justifying, now, in marriage, what was going on because you\u2019d have a fight with Brenda\u2014and I mean if she\u2019s going to freeze you out, you\u2019ve got to take care of yourself somehow; huh?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I hate to say it that way, but that was kind of the way I was acting out, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, how long did this charade take place?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Let\u2019s see, I was addicted for 11 years. I was married in \u201985. It was in \u201994 that God graciously delivered me from my pornography addiction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you talk about those nine years in your marriage, when this was an issue\u2014and years before that\u2014but the nine years in your marriage\u2014were you looking at pornography monthly?\u2014more regularly than that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I would say probably monthly. It wasn\u2019t every week \/ it wasn\u2019t every two weeks. It would just be sporadic, but I would say probably once a month or so I would\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Anybody know?\u00a0 Did you tell\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No. See, the thing\u2014I was so devious with it because this was before the internet. So, I would actually have to go to a\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A video store. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>\u2014book store \/ a video store. I would get the video and come home, sneak it, watch it, and then, get it back to the store; you know?\u00a0 So, it was not good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what caused you to come clean and talk to Brenda about it?\u00a0 Or was that the way it happened?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, what happened was\u2014in the mid-90s \/ right around \u201994\u2014Henry Blackaby, you know\u2014<em>Experiencing God<\/em>\u2014who was going around the country with a guy named John Avann [uncertain of spelling]\u2014they would tell their story together. People would come confess their sins. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was at two of these events because I was working on staff for the Southern Baptist Convention for the state of Illinois. I said, \u201cGod, I can\u2019t do this.\u201d\u00a0 Well, I finally go up in front of men and women\u2014confessed my sin of pornography\u2014had not planned on it\u2014just confessed. The older men in that room\u2014they had a chair\u2014had me sit down, and they came and laid hands on me and prayed over me. They loved me, and that was it. But because I hadn\u2019t planned on doing that, I said, \u201cI\u2019ve got to go tell Brenda because I want to get to her before somebody else does.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>The hardest thing I\u2019ve ever done in my life\u2014was going to sit down and tell this woman\u2014this beautiful woman who loves me\u2014I said, \u201cI\u2019ve been addicted to pornography.\u201d\u00a0 I said: \u201cI\u2019ve been addicted for 11 years before we got married. I brought it into our marriage, and I have no excuse. I\u2019m sorry. Will you forgive me?\u201d\u00a0 That was the most difficult thing I\u2019ve ever done in my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd she did\u2014she said, \u201cI\u2019ll forgive you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEver since that day, she has never ever \/ even in the heat of battle, ever brought up my pornography addiction. I tell this story because the more I share it the harder it is for me to go back; but also, I know it helps people in the audience who are struggling with it. But my misery has now become my ministry\u2014where I am helping a lot of guys\u2014whether they\u2019re in the NFL, next door, whatever\u2014this whole pornography issue\u2014and even women. That\u2019s kind of what we do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Clarence, I want you to go back to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014when you broke the news to Brenda. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How did she respond?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, she was stunned because she didn\u2019t know, and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She had <em>no<\/em> hint\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>\u2014she had no hint. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that any of this had been going on with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No. So, she just\u2014she didn\u2019t cry. She just kind of looked at me. She was stunned, but she just\u2014you have to know Brenda. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe\u2014sometimes, she internalizes stuff\u2014so we just\u2014we didn\u2019t talk much about it. She wanted to know how long it was going on\u2014with that\u2014a bunch of questions. We began to process some of that, but this weight came off my shoulders. I knew God had forgiven me. I knew there were consequences to it, but I just\u2014getting clean\u2014I can\u2019t tell you how important that was for me just to get to that. I would have taken whatever they had done at that time because I was pretty broken. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There are a couple of things I want to say right here\u2014one is to the man who may be feeling the need to go to his wife right now. He needs to understand that what may represent freedom to him\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and a release from the shame ends up being a can of garbage dumped upon somebody and into someone else\u2019s life\u2014and that being your wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can\u2019t expect your wife, necessarily, to respond like Brenda did. You\u2019ve got to give your wife some time to process and ultimately move toward forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, I talk about that in my marriage book\u2014that the way I did it was not the best way to do it. I think for men\u2014we can confess our sin, and we\u2019re kind of done with it because we do that\u2014but for women\u2014because they think differently \/ they\u2019re wired differently\u2014she\u2019s got to process that. Who she is, as a woman, is all brought into that. She\u2019s wondering, \u201cCan I compete with these airbrushed women?\u201d\u2014all stuff like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Clarence: <\/strong>All that stuff, she\u2019s got to go through: \u201cCan I trust you again, now?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cHow could you do that?\u2026for so many years?!\u201d\u00a0 All those things\u2014\u201cWhat we have\u2014is that a lie?\u201d\u00a0 I mean, there are just tons and tons of questions that you have to sit there and be able to try and answer honestly. It\u2019s hard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I think the other thing is you have to understand that you are the betrayer \/ she\u2019s the betrayed. So, how her emotional healing works out\u2014like you said\u2014everyone is not going to be like Brenda\u2014it takes time. So, you have to be willing to pay the consequences for the crime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Clarence, that was 20 years ago that you shared with Brenda. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Wow, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You slipped up since then?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You been tempted?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And how do you fight the temptation?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I kind of look at the bigger circle \/ bigger picture that\u2014and it\u2019s not an emotional deal\u2014it\u2019s just I don\u2019t want to go back. And then, I think God is so great\u2014He\u2019s been so good to me, and I\u2019m enjoying what I\u2019m doing now. I don\u2019t want to mess that up. I don\u2019t want Him to have to spank me again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>What I do now\u2014I really focus on guarding my eyes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when a woman is dressed\u2014and she has a lot\u2014showing cleavage\u2014I just turn my head. I don\u2019t initiate hugging women. I mean, sometimes you can\u2019t escape it because they grab you\u2014but I\u2014so, just a lot of things. I\u2019ve self\u2014I kind of self-police myself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother thing is\u2014when I told Brenda, I immediately called my best friends, whom she knew and trusted. I thought it was really important that she trusted this guy, and he asked me all kinds of questions: \u201cWhat do you see?\u00a0 What do you look at?\u201d\u00a0 So, when I go to a hotel room, it\u2019s ESPN or nothing; you know?\u00a0 So\u2014because I know, after ten o\u2019clock, there is nothing good on these premium channels\u2014so I\u2019ve had to really just police myself and pull back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mentioned, earlier, that there were two things that I had to say to men. One was\u2014as you tell your wife, give her time to process. She\u2019s not going to flip a switch\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Right; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and move through this. <br><br>The second thing, really, is the first step. It\u2019s 1 John 1:9. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Apostle John writes: \u201cIf we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His Word is not in us.\u201d I just want to remind the guy, who feels ensnared\u2014that God doesn\u2019t relate to us on the basis of what we deserve. He relates to us out of His character of grace and forgiveness. He is ready to forgive that man\u2014or, for that matter, that woman\u2014who turns to Him to confess a matter and to deal with it. Frankly, that\u2019s the first step\u2014before you go to your spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, let me encourage our listeners\u2014go to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. If you click, in the upper left-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d there\u2019s a link there that says, \u201cStepping Up.\u201d There are a couple of video clips that are a part of the <em>Stepping Up<\/em><em><sup>\u2122<\/sup><\/em> video series that I think would be good for guys to watch if they\u2019ve wrestled with this issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of them is a testimony from a guest we\u2019ve had on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Chris Beall, and his wife, Cindy\u2014talking about how this struggle with pornography almost destroyed his marriage and his ministry. And then, there is another clip that shows a guy wrestling with the temptation, not to look at pornography, but to contact an old friend, online. I mean, these are the kinds of real-life things that guys are wrestling with; and it\u2019s a part of what we try to address in the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series for men. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, let me encourage guys\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click in the upper left-hand corner, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d Look at these two video clips from the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series. In fact, we are hoping that, as you watch these clips, you would consider taking a group of guys through the material with you, starting in the new year. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur team has set a goal to try to get 50,000 men mobilized to go through the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> material, starting in the first month of the year. In fact, they want to rename the first month of the year\u2014call it \u201cManuary.\u201d Their desire is that guys, all across the country, would say: \u201cI\u2019ll lead a group. I can get five or six guys \/ I can get fathers and sons \/ I can get the guys at our church; and we\u2019ll go through this ten-week <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series and all of us get trained on what godly, biblical manhood ought to look like in our lives.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRight now, if you\u2019re ready to go ahead and order, at least, ten workbooks to take, at least, ten guys through the material with you, we\u2019ll give you the DVDs for free. So, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for all the details on the offer that we are making available this week and next week. It\u2019s going to expire at the end of the month. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if you want to take some guys through the <em>Stepping Up <\/em>material\u2014you\u2019re ready to go ahead and sign up for that and you\u2019d like to save some money\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click in the upper left-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d Then, click the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> link and find out more about the series or order the series from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also call 1-800-FL-TODAY if you have any questions or if you\u2019d like to order over the phone\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 Or again, find what you need, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, a quick word of, \u201cThanks,\u201d to the folks who make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible\u2014and that\u2019s you, if you\u2019ve ever made a donation to help support this ministry. The donations you make all go to help pay for the costs of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. We are grateful for the listeners who pitch in and help make it all possible\u2014couldn\u2019t do it without you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRight now, if you can make a donation, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a resource that Barbara Rainey has developed as a part of her Ever Thine Home<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> collection of resources. This is a chalkboard in the shape of a house. At the top of it, it says, \u201cIn this home we give thanks for.\u201d\u00a0 Then, you can write the things you are thankful for on the chalkboard. Great way to cultivate gratitude in your family, and it\u2019s a beautiful-looking chalkboard as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s our thank-you gift when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click in the upper right-hand corner of the screen\u2014the button that says, \u201cI Care.\u201d\u00a0 Make an online donation, and we\u2019ll send the chalkboard to you; or you can request the chalkboard when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone. You can also request the chalkboard when mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. And the zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd with that, we\u2019ve got to wrap things up for this week. Thanks for being with us. Hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday. Our friend, Ed Welch, is going to be here. We\u2019re going to talk about how people can get paralyzed by worrying about what other people think about them. We\u2019ll talk about how you deal with that kind of paralysis and why we care so much what other people think. Hope you can join us for that conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303245","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303245"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303245"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303245"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303245"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303245"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303245"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303245"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}