{"id":303235,"date":"2014-10-17T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-10-17T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/dating-friendships\/"},"modified":"2014-10-17T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-10-17T15:00:00","slug":"dating-friendships","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dating-friendships\/","title":{"rendered":"Dating Friendships"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Gerald Hiestand and Jay Thomas say too many people use dating relationships to justify their sexual activity. Instead, they encourage singles to establish dating friendships.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-17.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.64M","filesize_raw":"23743700","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2817],"tags":[5201,5470,5472,5471],"podcast_series":[7908],"cwp_profile":[9281,9282],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303235","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-choosing-a-spouse","tag-cohabitation","tag-dating-friendships","tag-practicing-divorce","tag-practicing-marriage","podcast_series-sex-dating-and-relationships","cwp_profile-gerald-hiestand","cwp_profile-jay-thomas","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303235\/dating-friendships","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303235\/dating-friendships","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"UEI3woEmvR\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dating-friendships\/\">Dating Friendships<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dating-friendships\/embed\/#?secret=UEI3woEmvR\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Dating Friendships&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"UEI3woEmvR\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-17.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-17.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How should we think about dating or courting, as Christians?\u00a0 Is there anything, biblically, that should inform us as we get together as single men and single women?\u00a0 Here are some thoughts on that from Gerald Hiestand. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>The dating relationship\u2014as we contemporarily conceive them, even in the Christian subculture\u2014is a justification, in a lot of people\u2019s minds, to start bringing sexual activity into that relationship that otherwise you would not. The second thing I think that we would be critical of is\u2014it creates a false sense of security that\u2019s not\u2014that\u2019s really not justified.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, October 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll talk today with authors, Jay Thomas and Gerald Hiestand, about sex, dating, and relationships\u2014hear what they have to say on the subject. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I\u2019m just wondering if our guests today have kissed dating goodbye. I guess they have, personally, because they are married. I just wonder if they are on the \u201cLet\u2019s kiss it goodbye\u201d bandwagon that got rolling more than a decade ago. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I think they\u2019ve coined a new term\u2014maybe it\u2019s not totally new\u2014but they\u2019ve coined a term called \u201cdating friendships\u201d; right guys?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Yes, I don\u2019t know if we started it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Sometimes, I use the word, \u201cdourtship,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know, dating and courtship kind of meshed together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dourtship\u2014I don\u2019t think anybody is going to want to sign up for dourtship. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>No, didn\u2019t go over too well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>That didn\u2019t make it into the book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, we are joined by Gerald Hiestand and Jay Thomas again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Both are pastors, and they have written a book called <em>Sex, Dating, and Relationships<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it\u2019s really a countercultural book for singles and for parents to really equip the next generation of young people to know how to stand in some pretty stiff cultural winds. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you remember having Joshua Harris in here, more than a decade ago\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, wow\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014right after he\u2019d written <em>I Kissed Dating Goodbye<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and he was countercultural. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. So, I\u2019m just\u2014I\u2019m curious\u2014if you were sitting down with Joshua today, interacting over his book, would you say, \u201cWay to go, man,\u201d or would you say, \u201cNo, you took this thing too far\u201d? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>I think we\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>That\u2019s a loaded question. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Obviously, I think our book will get associated with his; and I think we would have a lot of agreement. I think what we tried to do with our book is to get after some of the same lifestyle considerations; but then, maybe, to draw in some of the theological reasons why it should look this way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>And from what I understand\u2014if I remember right\u2014I think Josh wrote his book when he was 19. A lot of it was coming out of just like his\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Personal experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>\u2014personal experience\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sure, it was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>\u2014which I think was really helpful. Obviously, it resonated with a ton of people, just based on how well it sold; but yes, I think ours is maybe like a step or two before that\u2014looking at some of the theological underpinnings that would kind of make sense of choosing that lifestyle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay, so, when your kids hit the teen years\u2014when they are 16, 17, 18\u2014and they start to have strong feelings for a member of the opposite sex, and they do what my son did\u2014came to me on a Saturday afternoon, and he was\u2014I think he was a junior in high school\u2014and he said: \u201cDad, <em>please<\/em> let me take this girl to the movies. I like her, and I just want to get to know her. Can I take her to the movies?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d been saying to him, all along, \u201cLook, when you are ready to pursue a marital relationship, that\u2019s when you are ready to date.\u201d\u00a0 Well, he wasn\u2019t ready to pursue a marital relationship. He just liked the girl in his class. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when your kids come to you, at 16, and ask that question, Gerald\u2014\u201cYes,\u201d \u201cNo,\u201d \u201cWe\u2019ll see when the time comes,\u201d\u2014what\u2019s your answer?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Well, I\u2019m saying, right now, that I\u2019m going to say what you said. So, I guess we\u2019ll see, when the time comes, if I hold the line of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And by the way, let me just say, I relented. He\u2019s married to the girl he took to the movies. So\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Oh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>It worked out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes, I think, one\u2014and this is something we spent a lot of time on, in the book, looking at\u2014but when you think about what a dating relationship is\u2014there is going on a date, which is what your son was talking about\u2014that\u2019s one sort of thing. Then, there\u2019s a dating relationship, which is another sort of thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJay and I don\u2019t come down hard on the going on a date. We both would say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s keep that in the context of pursuing a spouse,\u201d\u2014so, starting to date when you are 15 or 16\u2014that doesn\u2019t maybe make a lot of sense. But the activity of going on a date\u2014we don\u2019t have a problem with that if you are looking\u2014that\u2019s kind of a form of courtship or looking for a spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhere we would get more critical is in the contemporary notions of a dating relationship and \u201cWhat does that really mean when you\u2019ve got a dating relationship?\u201d One of the things that we would be critical of it\u2014it tends to justify sexual activity that, otherwise, the couple would not engage in; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, you have a guy and a girl that like each other, but they are not boyfriend and girlfriend\u2014good Christian couple in the youth group or whatever. They would not think it appropriate to just make out; but, when he asks her to be his girlfriend and she says, \u201cYes,\u201d\u2014all of a sudden, that sexual ethic, somehow, just took an arbitrary shift. Now, suddenly, they feel justified\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The passionate kiss is now\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s now acceptable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014an acceptable thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s not only acceptable\u2014it\u2019s expected. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>It\u2019s expected; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The culture has made it so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>So, the first thing, I think, we would say is\u2014the dating relationship, as we contemporarily conceive them\u2014even in the Christian subculture\u2014is a justification, in a lot of people\u2019s minds, to start bringing sexual activity into that relationship that otherwise you would not. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The second thing, I think, that we would be critical of is\u2014it creates a false sense of security that\u2019s not\u2014that\u2019s really not justified. I mean, when you unpack it all the way down to the end\u2014like what a dating relationship is\u2014is essentially two people that are committed to liking each other until they don\u2019t feel like liking each other anymore. They\u2019ll let each other know before they\u2019re done. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it has all the trappings of a marriage; right?\u00a0 So, the boyfriend\/girlfriend\u2014husband\/wife\u2014anniversaries \/ remember Valentine\u2019s Day. If you have to break up\u2014it is a divorce\u2014like we make it feel like it\u2019s a marriage. And then, so, people move their emotional furniture in. They move their\u2014even sexual furniture in\u2014but, in the clause itself, is: \u201cThis can end at any time for no reason at all.\u201d\u00a0 And people just aren\u2019t\u2014they\u2019re not prepared for that, emotionally. They know that, intellectually; but, emotionally, they are not really prepared for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>And it\u2019s interesting, breakups are <em>so <\/em>painful. Why? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause\u2014if you\u2019ve started to live, functionally, as a married couple\u2014and say you\u2019re a teenager\u2014so, you\u2019re emotionally not quite mature enough to handle all of that\u2014and you break up. Well, I tell young people, \u201cIf it was a semi-marriage, you\u2019ve just experienced a semi-divorce.\u201d\u00a0 God hasn\u2019t designed you to have to go through that, and repeatedly, four or five times, until you find your spouse and, then, by the way, you\u2019ve brought in a way of thinking\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>\u2014into that marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>\u2014where you may not end up in a divorce\u2014but you are going across lines, probably, in low moments in your marriage that you would not have otherwise\u2014if you had started with this all-in or all-out mentality prior to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If your pattern was six relationships\u2014where you got in a fight and you broke up \/ you got in a fight and you broke up \/ you got in a fight and you broke up\u2014you get married\u2014if you get in a fight, what\u2019s the first impulse?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You break up\u2014something is wrong with the relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there are those who do attribute the high divorce rate to a culture that has grown up in these multiple dating relationships, where the only thing they know is how to toss the towel in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They don\u2019t know how to stick it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>I think what we\u2019ve done is\u2014we\u2019ve spent so long treating dating relationships as if they were a marriage\u2014that, now, we are treating marriages as if they are dating relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>And so, a breakup\u2014it\u2019s like a breakup in a marriage is like breaking up in a dating relationship. We don\u2019t\u2014it doesn\u2019t carry the feel that it used to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Okay, I want to ask you guys to speak to a parent, right now, who is in the process of training and equipping their sons and daughters to grow up in this sexually-saturated, multi-message culture that we are in today. Give them the messaging they need to communicate to their son or daughter as they are in elementary, junior high, high school. What is the purpose of sex?\u00a0 Biblically-speaking, what did God have in mind here?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Well, I think this is a great opportunity\u2014not only to talk about the subject itself\u2014but, now, you get to talk about the gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf Gerald and I have written this book\u2014and a parent or a young person hasn\u2019t gotten a clearer picture of the gospel\u2014then, we failed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>In some ways, what we are doing is\u2014we are sneaking in the gospel. We\u2019re hoping that this translates to any issue in life, whatsoever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Okay. There is a parent listening to this, right now\u2014maybe they grew up in church. They\u2019ve got all kinds of theology in their life\u2014maybe they don\u2019t\u2014and they heard you just make that statement. They are saying, \u201cNow, what does he mean?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cSneaking in the gospel.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cWhat does he mean?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cSneaking in\u201d\u2014that I need to ask Jesus into my heart in order to be a Christian\u2014is that what you are saying?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Explain what you mean there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>So\u2014yes, you do need to ask Jesus into your heart to become a Christian. You need to ask Him to continue to work in your heart, every day therein\u2014and an eternity forever in heaven\u2014continue to be seeking Christ to change us. That is the truth and the logic that affects every part of life, not least sexual purity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would commend to parents: \u201cStart with that\u2014start with that worldview where everything rotates around the core of the gospel\u2014and then, begin to define this issue. Go back to Genesis 1 and see where the story of God\u2019s promises begins. One of the things He does is\u2014He creates Adam and Eve. They are in a marriage, and He talks about the image of God. Something about that marriage is going to represent what it means to be in the image of God. He calls them male and female. He brings them together. They leave \/ they cleave\u2014they are together without shame. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPaul actually cites that in Ephesians 5\u2014he quotes from Genesis, Chapter 1\u2014talking about the logic of how Christ is reflected in a marriage\u2014His love for the church. Now, this parent is walking with their child through the Scriptures, beginning to see the logic of a marriage, in some special way, reflects Jesus\u2019 love for His people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay, I can hear a teenager saying, \u201cOkay, look, Gerald, you think that way because you are a pastor. I mean, you\u2019ve been to seminary\u2014that\u2019s why you think that way. <em>Nobody<\/em> at my school is thinking: \u2018Oh, this is a sermon about Jesus and the church. That couple that\u2019s going together over here\u2014they are getting married\u2014that\u2019s about\u2026\u2019\u2014they\u2019re just not thinking that way. So, if I am preaching that sermon, nobody\u2019s getting it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes, so, I think you\u2019re right that no one is getting it; but there is a great opportunity for them to get it as we live it out appropriately. There are certain things that we pick up, intuitively, without even explicitly understanding it. For instance\u2014the way that I come to understand what a Heavenly Father is\u2014is through my own father relationship. That\u2019s where I first conceive of what a father is. Now, you tell a ten-year-old to try to make these logical connections\u2014or even a teenager\u2014they may not be able to make those logical connections. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHowever, those connections are being made in the way that they are living their life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA husband and wife, who have come together in a way that honors God\u2014both in their sexual relationship by abstaining from sex before marriage and then coming together in a joyous union after their marriage\u2014that\u2019s a preaching of the gospel that the child may not be able to make explicit \/ conscious connections with\u2014but, yet, is picking up what it means for Christ to love the church and for the church to honor, and obey, and follow Christ. There is a proclamation of the gospel that is going on there, even if the explicit connections are not clear to people\u2014it\u2019s still there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Yes, and isn\u2019t it often the case that an unbeliever notices the lifestyle of a faithful disciple?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>And they may not put all the theological pieces together\u2014of course, they couldn\u2019t\u2014but they begin to ask that person: \u201cSo, what\u2019s the deal?\u00a0 What\u2019s going on in your life that you live this way?\u201d\u00a0 Now, you can bring the verbal interpretation of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve adorned the gospel with your lifestyle. Now, you can tell the gospel. Not only is this healthy for the young person\u2014it\u2019s telling the right things about who God is and what God does\u2014but it\u2019s a great evangelism opportunity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>And this is what makes sense of all sexual ethics because, when you think about a husband and wife relationship being a picture of Christ and the church\u2014and now, suddenly, it\u2019s clear why God hates divorce because what you are doing is you\u2019re taking the picture of Christ and the church and you\u2019re tearing it apart. Infidelity in marriage\u2014like: \u201cWhat\u2019s the problem with infidelity?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>You\u2019re painting a picture of Christ, who is being unfaithful to the church, or the church being unfaithful to Christ. I mean, you can carry this out into polygamy and homosexuality\u2014that our sexuality was created, by God, specifically, from the beginning, to function as a picture of Christ and the church when we come together as husband and wife \/ male and female. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And it was designed to be expressed in one union\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014with one man \/ one woman for a lifetime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Because that\u2019s the <em>only<\/em> kind of union that reflects the solidarity of Christ\u2019s one-spirit relationship with the church. Any other use of our sexuality comes outside the purpose for which it was created, which is why it becomes destructive. That\u2019s why Jay and I are so committed to calling for the use of sexuality <em>only<\/em> in the context of the marriage relationship because that\u2019s where it was created to be used. To use it outside of that\u2014whether it\u2019s extramarital\/premarital\u2014it doesn\u2019t function in the way that God designed it to function. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Given that lofty picture, you go back to the statistics that you mentioned earlier\u2014that 80 percent of Christian singles are having sex\u2014and yet, that same group that took the survey, 75 percent of them said it was wrong. The issue is: \u201cWhat in the world is taking place here?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just have to read a passage of Scripture because this cuts through the fog\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u20141 Thessalonians 4, verse 3\u2014and I\u2019ll read a couple of verses here: \u201cFor this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God\u2026\u201d Why is this area so evergreen?\u2014in terms of every generation seems to fall off the cliff?!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes, and I think this gets back to what we were talking about in the previous time we were together\u2014where people will read that\u2014hear you read that verse and say: \u201cWell, as long as I\u2019m not having sex, then, I\u2019m adhering to what that verse is about. I\u2019m living that verse.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s really where we\u2019ve dropped the ball, as evangelicals, I think. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, over the last 50\/60 years, we have redefined sexual immorality so narrowly to just mean: \u201cJust don\u2019t have sexual intercourse.\u201d We\u2019ve opened up the door to all sorts of sexual immorality\u2014that stops short of sexual intercourse\u2014but is still, nonetheless, sexual immorality and, then, have wondered why things are just in such disarray. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you\u2019d put passionate kissing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>I would. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014outside of marriage in that verse\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that\u2019s sexual immorality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes, and I want to be sensitive here. I want to acknowledge that a passionate kiss is not going to have the same consequence in one\u2019s life as premarital sex. I mean, there\u2019s a continuum there; but a lustful thought is sexual immorality. It doesn\u2019t have the same consequences, but it\u2019s still sexual immorality. A passionate kiss is sexual immorality if it\u2019s outside the bounds of the marriage relationship. So, yes, I think we just need to call it what it is. We need to acknowledge that it\u2019s sexual, and we need to say that that belongs in the marriage relationship. When it\u2019s not, you\u2019ve moved into the realm of sexual immorality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know\u2014I can imagine a teenager, who would ask the question: \u201cOkay; so I understand what you are saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cSo, how come these feelings start to emerge in me so long before I can act on them?\u201d\u00a0 And interestingly, in listening to Dennis read 1 Thessalonians 4, it\u2019s so that I can learn self-control, which is going to be a lesson I\u2019m going to need to learn throughout my life; right?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Yes. I think it\u2019s important\u2014again, let\u2019s come to Peter, my oldest\u2014to say: \u201cThe feelings are normal; okay?\u00a0 You can\u2019t choose the feelings, but you can choose whether you act upon them in a way that\u2019s inappropriate. You are learning this wonderful lesson of entrusting God with those feelings and any other temptation you might have.\u201d We walk with them through that; and at the same time, saying: \u201cYou are a sexual being. Lord willing, one day, He is going to bring a godly woman to you; but until then, learn to trust Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHe will give the Holy Spirit to you to help you in this. You\u2019re not left alone. This isn\u2019t God being cruel with you; but part of walking with Christ is depending upon Him, moment by moment, and asking for the moment-by-moment help of the Holy Spirit.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your book, <em>Sex, Dating, and Relationships<\/em>, is really a great book to cause a parent to think about \u201cWhat do I believe about this area?\u201d and \u201cWhat will be the truth I will pass on to my kids?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys don\u2019t know this, but I finished what could be the sequel to your book. It\u2019s called <em>Aggressive Girls, Clueless Boys<\/em>. It\u2019s from Proverbs, Chapter 5, verse 7\u2014trying to help parents realize they\u2019ve got to have some conversations with their daughters to keep them from being seduced by the world in terms of how they think about using their sexuality\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and how they\u2019ve got to have a number of conversations with their sons to talk to their sons about what will happen\u2014not only when they\u2019re 12, 13, 14, 15\u2014and by the way, folks, it\u2019s happening at even younger and younger ages\u2014where girls are being aggressive, sexually, with boys.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut this issue that we are talking about here\u2014this is a lifelong issue. I\u2019m in my sixties, for goodness sake, and it\u2019s still an issue for me: Will my head be turned?\u00a0 Will I cave into lust?\u00a0 By the grace of God, I have been faithful to my wife Barbara. You know what that brings me?\u00a0 It brings me life, and I think it brings my adult children life. I think it brings my legacy\u2014my grandchildren\u2014life. Our lives can be a doorway through which sin gains entrance into our family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you guys have put together here is really a great exhortation for singles, parents, teens\u2014people of all ages\u2014to think, biblically, about our sexuality and how we are going to keep that passion under the control of the Holy Spirit. <br><br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. I have to tell you\u2014when the book first came out, I got copies. I sent one to my son, who was, at that time, a senior in college; and I sent one to my other son, who was a freshman in college. I know, when they got it, they both thought, \u201cOkay, here we go\u2014another book from Dad.\u201d\u00a0 But they both read it, and they both said they liked it. In fact, my oldest son said, \u201cHonestly, I don\u2019t like it that much, but I can\u2019t argue with it.\u201d\u00a0 I mean, it was really influential in both of their lives as they interacted with young women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, a couple of thumbs-up from my sons\u2014and the truth is they are not alone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJoe Stowell, at Cornerstone University, said that you guys are providing, in this book, a realistic and theologically-astute perspective on the subject. That\u2019s a pretty nice endorsement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have copies of the book, <em>Sex, Dating, and Relationships<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, to order a copy\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d Look for the title of the book, <em>Sex, Dating, and Relationships: A Fresh Approach<\/em>. Again, the website\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d at the top of the page; or you can call to order the book, 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you have younger children\u2014children who are headed toward adolescence but aren\u2019t quite there yet\u2014you ought to start planning now to take advantage of our <em>Passport2Purity<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> resource. Take them away for a weekend, where you can prepare them for what\u2019s coming up in the teen years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can start talking about these subjects before your kids\u2019 hormones have kicked in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have information on the website at FamilyLifeToday.com about <em>Passport2Purity<\/em>. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d at the top of the page. You can order from us, online; or you can find out more about the <em>Passport2Purity<\/em> resource. Again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com; and our toll-free number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I want to mention that today\u2019s conversation has been sponsored by folks, just like you. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported. It is listeners, who tune into <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, who make this daily radio program possible. In fact, you should know that your investment in <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is helping us reach more people this year than we have ever reached before\u2014through the resources we are creating, through the events that we are hosting, on our website\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014and through our radio program\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014which is now reaching people, not just radio but via podcasts through our FamilyLife audio app. We are grateful for your partnership with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d like to express our gratitude by sending you the \u201cIn this home we give thanks\u201d chalkboard that Barbara Rainey has created as a part of her Every Thine Home<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> collection. It\u2019s in the shape of a house. At the top, it says, \u201cIn this home we give thanks for\u201d and, then, you can write on the chalkboard with things you are thankful for\u2014and you can change it every day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a great discipleship tool, and it looks great in your home as well. It\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you make a donation. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. In the upper right-hand corner of the screen, click the button that says, \u201cI Care.\u201d You can make an online donation and request the chalkboard. Or you can request the chalkboard when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014make a donation over the phone. Or if you\u2019d prefer to drop us a note to request the chalkboard, send your note and your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday. We\u2019re going to talk about manhood. Actually, we\u2019re going to hear some thoughts about that from pastor and author, Matt Chandler. He\u2019s got some great things to say about what authentic biblical manhood is all about. I hope you can be here for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. 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Hiestand and Jay Thomas say too many people use dating relationships to justify their sexual activity. Instead, they encourage singles to establish dating friendships.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How should we think about dating or courting, as Christians?\u00a0 Is there anything, biblically, that should inform us as we get together as single men and single women?\u00a0 Here are some thoughts on that from Gerald Hiestand. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>The dating relationship\u2014as we contemporarily conceive them, even in the Christian subculture\u2014is a justification, in a lot of people\u2019s minds, to start bringing sexual activity into that relationship that otherwise you would not. The second thing I think that we would be critical of is\u2014it creates a false sense of security that\u2019s not\u2014that\u2019s really not justified.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, October 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll talk today with authors, Jay Thomas and Gerald Hiestand, about sex, dating, and relationships\u2014hear what they have to say on the subject. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I\u2019m just wondering if our guests today have kissed dating goodbye. I guess they have, personally, because they are married. I just wonder if they are on the \u201cLet\u2019s kiss it goodbye\u201d bandwagon that got rolling more than a decade ago. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I think they\u2019ve coined a new term\u2014maybe it\u2019s not totally new\u2014but they\u2019ve coined a term called \u201cdating friendships\u201d; right guys?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Yes, I don\u2019t know if we started it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Sometimes, I use the word, \u201cdourtship,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know, dating and courtship kind of meshed together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dourtship\u2014I don\u2019t think anybody is going to want to sign up for dourtship. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>No, didn\u2019t go over too well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>That didn\u2019t make it into the book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, we are joined by Gerald Hiestand and Jay Thomas again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Both are pastors, and they have written a book called <em>Sex, Dating, and Relationships<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it\u2019s really a countercultural book for singles and for parents to really equip the next generation of young people to know how to stand in some pretty stiff cultural winds. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you remember having Joshua Harris in here, more than a decade ago\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, wow\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014right after he\u2019d written <em>I Kissed Dating Goodbye<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and he was countercultural. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. So, I\u2019m just\u2014I\u2019m curious\u2014if you were sitting down with Joshua today, interacting over his book, would you say, \u201cWay to go, man,\u201d or would you say, \u201cNo, you took this thing too far\u201d? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>I think we\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>That\u2019s a loaded question. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Obviously, I think our book will get associated with his; and I think we would have a lot of agreement. I think what we tried to do with our book is to get after some of the same lifestyle considerations; but then, maybe, to draw in some of the theological reasons why it should look this way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>And from what I understand\u2014if I remember right\u2014I think Josh wrote his book when he was 19. A lot of it was coming out of just like his\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Personal experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>\u2014personal experience\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sure, it was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>\u2014which I think was really helpful. Obviously, it resonated with a ton of people, just based on how well it sold; but yes, I think ours is maybe like a step or two before that\u2014looking at some of the theological underpinnings that would kind of make sense of choosing that lifestyle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay, so, when your kids hit the teen years\u2014when they are 16, 17, 18\u2014and they start to have strong feelings for a member of the opposite sex, and they do what my son did\u2014came to me on a Saturday afternoon, and he was\u2014I think he was a junior in high school\u2014and he said: \u201cDad, <em>please<\/em> let me take this girl to the movies. I like her, and I just want to get to know her. Can I take her to the movies?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d been saying to him, all along, \u201cLook, when you are ready to pursue a marital relationship, that\u2019s when you are ready to date.\u201d\u00a0 Well, he wasn\u2019t ready to pursue a marital relationship. He just liked the girl in his class. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when your kids come to you, at 16, and ask that question, Gerald\u2014\u201cYes,\u201d \u201cNo,\u201d \u201cWe\u2019ll see when the time comes,\u201d\u2014what\u2019s your answer?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Well, I\u2019m saying, right now, that I\u2019m going to say what you said. So, I guess we\u2019ll see, when the time comes, if I hold the line of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And by the way, let me just say, I relented. He\u2019s married to the girl he took to the movies. So\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Oh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>It worked out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes, I think, one\u2014and this is something we spent a lot of time on, in the book, looking at\u2014but when you think about what a dating relationship is\u2014there is going on a date, which is what your son was talking about\u2014that\u2019s one sort of thing. Then, there\u2019s a dating relationship, which is another sort of thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJay and I don\u2019t come down hard on the going on a date. We both would say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s keep that in the context of pursuing a spouse,\u201d\u2014so, starting to date when you are 15 or 16\u2014that doesn\u2019t maybe make a lot of sense. But the activity of going on a date\u2014we don\u2019t have a problem with that if you are looking\u2014that\u2019s kind of a form of courtship or looking for a spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhere we would get more critical is in the contemporary notions of a dating relationship and \u201cWhat does that really mean when you\u2019ve got a dating relationship?\u201d One of the things that we would be critical of it\u2014it tends to justify sexual activity that, otherwise, the couple would not engage in; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, you have a guy and a girl that like each other, but they are not boyfriend and girlfriend\u2014good Christian couple in the youth group or whatever. They would not think it appropriate to just make out; but, when he asks her to be his girlfriend and she says, \u201cYes,\u201d\u2014all of a sudden, that sexual ethic, somehow, just took an arbitrary shift. Now, suddenly, they feel justified\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The passionate kiss is now\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s now acceptable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014an acceptable thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s not only acceptable\u2014it\u2019s expected. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>It\u2019s expected; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The culture has made it so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>So, the first thing, I think, we would say is\u2014the dating relationship, as we contemporarily conceive them\u2014even in the Christian subculture\u2014is a justification, in a lot of people\u2019s minds, to start bringing sexual activity into that relationship that otherwise you would not. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The second thing, I think, that we would be critical of is\u2014it creates a false sense of security that\u2019s not\u2014that\u2019s really not justified. I mean, when you unpack it all the way down to the end\u2014like what a dating relationship is\u2014is essentially two people that are committed to liking each other until they don\u2019t feel like liking each other anymore. They\u2019ll let each other know before they\u2019re done. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it has all the trappings of a marriage; right?\u00a0 So, the boyfriend\/girlfriend\u2014husband\/wife\u2014anniversaries \/ remember Valentine\u2019s Day. If you have to break up\u2014it is a divorce\u2014like we make it feel like it\u2019s a marriage. And then, so, people move their emotional furniture in. They move their\u2014even sexual furniture in\u2014but, in the clause itself, is: \u201cThis can end at any time for no reason at all.\u201d\u00a0 And people just aren\u2019t\u2014they\u2019re not prepared for that, emotionally. They know that, intellectually; but, emotionally, they are not really prepared for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>And it\u2019s interesting, breakups are <em>so <\/em>painful. Why? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause\u2014if you\u2019ve started to live, functionally, as a married couple\u2014and say you\u2019re a teenager\u2014so, you\u2019re emotionally not quite mature enough to handle all of that\u2014and you break up. Well, I tell young people, \u201cIf it was a semi-marriage, you\u2019ve just experienced a semi-divorce.\u201d\u00a0 God hasn\u2019t designed you to have to go through that, and repeatedly, four or five times, until you find your spouse and, then, by the way, you\u2019ve brought in a way of thinking\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>\u2014into that marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>\u2014where you may not end up in a divorce\u2014but you are going across lines, probably, in low moments in your marriage that you would not have otherwise\u2014if you had started with this all-in or all-out mentality prior to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If your pattern was six relationships\u2014where you got in a fight and you broke up \/ you got in a fight and you broke up \/ you got in a fight and you broke up\u2014you get married\u2014if you get in a fight, what\u2019s the first impulse?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You break up\u2014something is wrong with the relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there are those who do attribute the high divorce rate to a culture that has grown up in these multiple dating relationships, where the only thing they know is how to toss the towel in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They don\u2019t know how to stick it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>I think what we\u2019ve done is\u2014we\u2019ve spent so long treating dating relationships as if they were a marriage\u2014that, now, we are treating marriages as if they are dating relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>And so, a breakup\u2014it\u2019s like a breakup in a marriage is like breaking up in a dating relationship. We don\u2019t\u2014it doesn\u2019t carry the feel that it used to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Okay, I want to ask you guys to speak to a parent, right now, who is in the process of training and equipping their sons and daughters to grow up in this sexually-saturated, multi-message culture that we are in today. Give them the messaging they need to communicate to their son or daughter as they are in elementary, junior high, high school. What is the purpose of sex?\u00a0 Biblically-speaking, what did God have in mind here?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Well, I think this is a great opportunity\u2014not only to talk about the subject itself\u2014but, now, you get to talk about the gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf Gerald and I have written this book\u2014and a parent or a young person hasn\u2019t gotten a clearer picture of the gospel\u2014then, we failed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>In some ways, what we are doing is\u2014we are sneaking in the gospel. We\u2019re hoping that this translates to any issue in life, whatsoever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Okay. There is a parent listening to this, right now\u2014maybe they grew up in church. They\u2019ve got all kinds of theology in their life\u2014maybe they don\u2019t\u2014and they heard you just make that statement. They are saying, \u201cNow, what does he mean?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cSneaking in the gospel.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cWhat does he mean?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cSneaking in\u201d\u2014that I need to ask Jesus into my heart in order to be a Christian\u2014is that what you are saying?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Explain what you mean there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>So\u2014yes, you do need to ask Jesus into your heart to become a Christian. You need to ask Him to continue to work in your heart, every day therein\u2014and an eternity forever in heaven\u2014continue to be seeking Christ to change us. That is the truth and the logic that affects every part of life, not least sexual purity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would commend to parents: \u201cStart with that\u2014start with that worldview where everything rotates around the core of the gospel\u2014and then, begin to define this issue. Go back to Genesis 1 and see where the story of God\u2019s promises begins. One of the things He does is\u2014He creates Adam and Eve. They are in a marriage, and He talks about the image of God. Something about that marriage is going to represent what it means to be in the image of God. He calls them male and female. He brings them together. They leave \/ they cleave\u2014they are together without shame. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPaul actually cites that in Ephesians 5\u2014he quotes from Genesis, Chapter 1\u2014talking about the logic of how Christ is reflected in a marriage\u2014His love for the church. Now, this parent is walking with their child through the Scriptures, beginning to see the logic of a marriage, in some special way, reflects Jesus\u2019 love for His people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay, I can hear a teenager saying, \u201cOkay, look, Gerald, you think that way because you are a pastor. I mean, you\u2019ve been to seminary\u2014that\u2019s why you think that way. <em>Nobody<\/em> at my school is thinking: \u2018Oh, this is a sermon about Jesus and the church. That couple that\u2019s going together over here\u2014they are getting married\u2014that\u2019s about\u2026\u2019\u2014they\u2019re just not thinking that way. So, if I am preaching that sermon, nobody\u2019s getting it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes, so, I think you\u2019re right that no one is getting it; but there is a great opportunity for them to get it as we live it out appropriately. There are certain things that we pick up, intuitively, without even explicitly understanding it. For instance\u2014the way that I come to understand what a Heavenly Father is\u2014is through my own father relationship. That\u2019s where I first conceive of what a father is. Now, you tell a ten-year-old to try to make these logical connections\u2014or even a teenager\u2014they may not be able to make those logical connections. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHowever, those connections are being made in the way that they are living their life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA husband and wife, who have come together in a way that honors God\u2014both in their sexual relationship by abstaining from sex before marriage and then coming together in a joyous union after their marriage\u2014that\u2019s a preaching of the gospel that the child may not be able to make explicit \/ conscious connections with\u2014but, yet, is picking up what it means for Christ to love the church and for the church to honor, and obey, and follow Christ. There is a proclamation of the gospel that is going on there, even if the explicit connections are not clear to people\u2014it\u2019s still there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Yes, and isn\u2019t it often the case that an unbeliever notices the lifestyle of a faithful disciple?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>And they may not put all the theological pieces together\u2014of course, they couldn\u2019t\u2014but they begin to ask that person: \u201cSo, what\u2019s the deal?\u00a0 What\u2019s going on in your life that you live this way?\u201d\u00a0 Now, you can bring the verbal interpretation of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve adorned the gospel with your lifestyle. Now, you can tell the gospel. Not only is this healthy for the young person\u2014it\u2019s telling the right things about who God is and what God does\u2014but it\u2019s a great evangelism opportunity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>And this is what makes sense of all sexual ethics because, when you think about a husband and wife relationship being a picture of Christ and the church\u2014and now, suddenly, it\u2019s clear why God hates divorce because what you are doing is you\u2019re taking the picture of Christ and the church and you\u2019re tearing it apart. Infidelity in marriage\u2014like: \u201cWhat\u2019s the problem with infidelity?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>You\u2019re painting a picture of Christ, who is being unfaithful to the church, or the church being unfaithful to Christ. I mean, you can carry this out into polygamy and homosexuality\u2014that our sexuality was created, by God, specifically, from the beginning, to function as a picture of Christ and the church when we come together as husband and wife \/ male and female. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And it was designed to be expressed in one union\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014with one man \/ one woman for a lifetime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Because that\u2019s the <em>only<\/em> kind of union that reflects the solidarity of Christ\u2019s one-spirit relationship with the church. Any other use of our sexuality comes outside the purpose for which it was created, which is why it becomes destructive. That\u2019s why Jay and I are so committed to calling for the use of sexuality <em>only<\/em> in the context of the marriage relationship because that\u2019s where it was created to be used. To use it outside of that\u2014whether it\u2019s extramarital\/premarital\u2014it doesn\u2019t function in the way that God designed it to function. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Given that lofty picture, you go back to the statistics that you mentioned earlier\u2014that 80 percent of Christian singles are having sex\u2014and yet, that same group that took the survey, 75 percent of them said it was wrong. The issue is: \u201cWhat in the world is taking place here?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just have to read a passage of Scripture because this cuts through the fog\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u20141 Thessalonians 4, verse 3\u2014and I\u2019ll read a couple of verses here: \u201cFor this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God\u2026\u201d Why is this area so evergreen?\u2014in terms of every generation seems to fall off the cliff?!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes, and I think this gets back to what we were talking about in the previous time we were together\u2014where people will read that\u2014hear you read that verse and say: \u201cWell, as long as I\u2019m not having sex, then, I\u2019m adhering to what that verse is about. I\u2019m living that verse.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s really where we\u2019ve dropped the ball, as evangelicals, I think. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, over the last 50\/60 years, we have redefined sexual immorality so narrowly to just mean: \u201cJust don\u2019t have sexual intercourse.\u201d We\u2019ve opened up the door to all sorts of sexual immorality\u2014that stops short of sexual intercourse\u2014but is still, nonetheless, sexual immorality and, then, have wondered why things are just in such disarray. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you\u2019d put passionate kissing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>I would. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014outside of marriage in that verse\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that\u2019s sexual immorality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gerald: <\/strong>Yes, and I want to be sensitive here. I want to acknowledge that a passionate kiss is not going to have the same consequence in one\u2019s life as premarital sex. I mean, there\u2019s a continuum there; but a lustful thought is sexual immorality. It doesn\u2019t have the same consequences, but it\u2019s still sexual immorality. A passionate kiss is sexual immorality if it\u2019s outside the bounds of the marriage relationship. So, yes, I think we just need to call it what it is. We need to acknowledge that it\u2019s sexual, and we need to say that that belongs in the marriage relationship. When it\u2019s not, you\u2019ve moved into the realm of sexual immorality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know\u2014I can imagine a teenager, who would ask the question: \u201cOkay; so I understand what you are saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cSo, how come these feelings start to emerge in me so long before I can act on them?\u201d\u00a0 And interestingly, in listening to Dennis read 1 Thessalonians 4, it\u2019s so that I can learn self-control, which is going to be a lesson I\u2019m going to need to learn throughout my life; right?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jay: <\/strong>Yes. I think it\u2019s important\u2014again, let\u2019s come to Peter, my oldest\u2014to say: \u201cThe feelings are normal; okay?\u00a0 You can\u2019t choose the feelings, but you can choose whether you act upon them in a way that\u2019s inappropriate. You are learning this wonderful lesson of entrusting God with those feelings and any other temptation you might have.\u201d We walk with them through that; and at the same time, saying: \u201cYou are a sexual being. Lord willing, one day, He is going to bring a godly woman to you; but until then, learn to trust Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHe will give the Holy Spirit to you to help you in this. You\u2019re not left alone. This isn\u2019t God being cruel with you; but part of walking with Christ is depending upon Him, moment by moment, and asking for the moment-by-moment help of the Holy Spirit.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your book, <em>Sex, Dating, and Relationships<\/em>, is really a great book to cause a parent to think about \u201cWhat do I believe about this area?\u201d and \u201cWhat will be the truth I will pass on to my kids?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys don\u2019t know this, but I finished what could be the sequel to your book. It\u2019s called <em>Aggressive Girls, Clueless Boys<\/em>. It\u2019s from Proverbs, Chapter 5, verse 7\u2014trying to help parents realize they\u2019ve got to have some conversations with their daughters to keep them from being seduced by the world in terms of how they think about using their sexuality\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and how they\u2019ve got to have a number of conversations with their sons to talk to their sons about what will happen\u2014not only when they\u2019re 12, 13, 14, 15\u2014and by the way, folks, it\u2019s happening at even younger and younger ages\u2014where girls are being aggressive, sexually, with boys.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut this issue that we are talking about here\u2014this is a lifelong issue. I\u2019m in my sixties, for goodness sake, and it\u2019s still an issue for me: Will my head be turned?\u00a0 Will I cave into lust?\u00a0 By the grace of God, I have been faithful to my wife Barbara. You know what that brings me?\u00a0 It brings me life, and I think it brings my adult children life. I think it brings my legacy\u2014my grandchildren\u2014life. Our lives can be a doorway through which sin gains entrance into our family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you guys have put together here is really a great exhortation for singles, parents, teens\u2014people of all ages\u2014to think, biblically, about our sexuality and how we are going to keep that passion under the control of the Holy Spirit. <br><br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. I have to tell you\u2014when the book first came out, I got copies. I sent one to my son, who was, at that time, a senior in college; and I sent one to my other son, who was a freshman in college. I know, when they got it, they both thought, \u201cOkay, here we go\u2014another book from Dad.\u201d\u00a0 But they both read it, and they both said they liked it. In fact, my oldest son said, \u201cHonestly, I don\u2019t like it that much, but I can\u2019t argue with it.\u201d\u00a0 I mean, it was really influential in both of their lives as they interacted with young women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, a couple of thumbs-up from my sons\u2014and the truth is they are not alone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJoe Stowell, at Cornerstone University, said that you guys are providing, in this book, a realistic and theologically-astute perspective on the subject. That\u2019s a pretty nice endorsement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have copies of the book, <em>Sex, Dating, and Relationships<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, to order a copy\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d Look for the title of the book, <em>Sex, Dating, and Relationships: A Fresh Approach<\/em>. Again, the website\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d at the top of the page; or you can call to order the book, 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you have younger children\u2014children who are headed toward adolescence but aren\u2019t quite there yet\u2014you ought to start planning now to take advantage of our <em>Passport2Purity<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> resource. Take them away for a weekend, where you can prepare them for what\u2019s coming up in the teen years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can start talking about these subjects before your kids\u2019 hormones have kicked in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have information on the website at FamilyLifeToday.com about <em>Passport2Purity<\/em>. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d at the top of the page. You can order from us, online; or you can find out more about the <em>Passport2Purity<\/em> resource. Again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com; and our toll-free number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I want to mention that today\u2019s conversation has been sponsored by folks, just like you. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported. It is listeners, who tune into <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, who make this daily radio program possible. In fact, you should know that your investment in <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is helping us reach more people this year than we have ever reached before\u2014through the resources we are creating, through the events that we are hosting, on our website\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014and through our radio program\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014which is now reaching people, not just radio but via podcasts through our FamilyLife audio app. We are grateful for your partnership with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d like to express our gratitude by sending you the \u201cIn this home we give thanks\u201d chalkboard that Barbara Rainey has created as a part of her Every Thine Home<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> collection. It\u2019s in the shape of a house. At the top, it says, \u201cIn this home we give thanks for\u201d and, then, you can write on the chalkboard with things you are thankful for\u2014and you can change it every day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a great discipleship tool, and it looks great in your home as well. It\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you make a donation. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. In the upper right-hand corner of the screen, click the button that says, \u201cI Care.\u201d You can make an online donation and request the chalkboard. Or you can request the chalkboard when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014make a donation over the phone. Or if you\u2019d prefer to drop us a note to request the chalkboard, send your note and your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday. We\u2019re going to talk about manhood. Actually, we\u2019re going to hear some thoughts about that from pastor and author, Matt Chandler. He\u2019s got some great things to say about what authentic biblical manhood is all about. I hope you can be here for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. 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