{"id":303229,"date":"2014-10-14T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-10-14T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/suffering-as-the-crucible-for-love\/"},"modified":"2014-10-14T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-10-14T15:00:00","slug":"suffering-as-the-crucible-for-love","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/suffering-as-the-crucible-for-love\/","title":{"rendered":"Suffering as the Crucible for Love"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>We must embrace Christ in His suffering. Best-selling author and father of six, Paul Miller, is joined by his autistic daughter, Kim, as he talks about joining into Christ&#8217;s fellowship of suffering.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-14.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"21.52M","filesize_raw":"22560341","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2822],"tags":[5167,5468,5467,5463,5464,5465,5469,5466],"podcast_series":[8041],"cwp_profile":[3340],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303229","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-autism","tag-autistic-daughter","tag-crucible","tag-hesed-love","tag-hessed","tag-lovingkindness","tag-ruth-is-a-disney-story","tag-steadfast-love","podcast_series-a-loving-life","cwp_profile-paul-miller","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303229\/suffering-as-the-crucible-for-love","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303229\/suffering-as-the-crucible-for-love","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Kaa923NNKi\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/suffering-as-the-crucible-for-love\/\">Suffering as the Crucible for Love<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/suffering-as-the-crucible-for-love\/embed\/#?secret=Kaa923NNKi\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Suffering as the Crucible for Love&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Kaa923NNKi\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"We must embrace Christ in His suffering. Best-selling author and father of six, Paul Miller, is joined by his autistic daughter, Kim, as he talks about joining into Christ's fellowship of suffering.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-14.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jesus said, \u201cGreater love has no man than this that he lay down his life for his friends.\u201d Author, Paul Miller, says, \u201cIf we really do love someone else, then we lay down our lives again and again and again.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>At the Last Supper, the disciples have had a quarrel. The camera speed of John\u2019s description of what Jesus does goes to slow motion because John tells us \u201cHe rose from table, took off His outer garment, wrapped Himself with a towel, took a basin, and went to them and washed their feet.\u201d John is absolutely <em>riveted<\/em> by Jesus\u2019 humility.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, October 14<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll talk today about the connection between humility and real love. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Here\u2019s something I read in the book we\u2019re talking about this week. Paul Miller says: \u201cSuffering is the crucible for love. We don\u2019t learn how to love anywhere else.\u201d I thought: \u201cThat doesn\u2019t sound like anything you want to read. [Laughter] I mean, who\u2019s going to pick up that book if that\u2019s what the author\u2019s trying to tell you?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Unless you\u2019re in the crucible and you know it\u2014and you go: \u201cYou know what? I have two alternatives\u2014either to get out of the crucible and to get out of this marriage or to stick and stay and find a way to find life in the midst of suffering.\u201d That\u2019s what Paul Miller does in his book, <em>A Loving Life<\/em>. Welcome back to the broadcast, Paul.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Great to be here, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Paul is the executive director of seeJesus<sup>\u2122<\/sup>. He and his wife Jill live in the Philadelphia area. They have six children and 9.3 grandchildren. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And we are talking about a book he\u2019s written on the life of Ruth. It\u2019s about learning how to love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you wrote this book in the middle of your own crucible. You shared with us that your son and his wife lost a child in her eighth month of pregnancy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was just curious\u2014did you, in the midst of that, as you and your son kind of studied the Scriptures together\u2014did you say: \u201cWell, I know where we need to turn to find help. We need to turn to the book of Ruth\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes. I mean, I asked their permission. I said, \u201cWould you be willing to go through that?\u201d But yes, I went to Ruth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ruth isn\u2019t what I\u2019d have thought of in terms of where you go to find comfort in the midst of suffering like what your son and daughter-in-law\u2014why the book of Ruth?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Because it\u2019s a Disney story\u2014Disney stories go, as my six-year-old daughter, Courtney, said, \u201cThey go happy\/sad\/happy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat Disney discovered\u2014and the secret of all their movies is \u201chappy\/sad\/happy.\u201d They got that plotline from the gospel. That is an <em>entirely<\/em> Jewish\/Christian plotline. It actually has a shape to it that I like to call the J-curve because it\u2019s the shape of Jesus\u2019 life\u2014of life \/ His life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPhilippians 2 charts it out as His descent\u2014all the way to death on the cross\u2014and then His resurrection. But that is a Jewish plotline, even before the Gospels\u2014and the gospel, itself, in the Old Testament. The story of the book of Ruth is that J-curve\u2014that happy\/sad\/happy. The story of Joseph is that same thing\u2014the story of David\u2014the story of Abraham\u2014they all follow this J-curve.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The book of Ruth only has a few verses of happy at the very beginning before sad comes along; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. It\u2019s Naomi, the mom, loses her husband. Then her sons get married to Moabite women, and then both her sons die. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe loses her entire family except her two daughters-in-law.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And so, here they are in desperate straits and looking for provision because they don\u2019t have anybody to care for them or provide for them. That\u2019s where the crucible is formed in their lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right. Like: \u201cWhat do you do when life is completely unfair, and it is completely falling apart, and there doesn\u2019t seem to be any point in living?\u201d I mean, one of the hardest\u2014one of the oddest things about deep suffering is\u2014the sun comes up in the morning. It\u2019s the oddest thing because, for you, functionally, life has stopped.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You are in those moments of sorrow, and it\u2019s a beautiful day\u2014something seems very wrong; doesn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes, it really does. It just seems out of place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You say, in the book: \u201cDon\u2019t misunderstand\u2014suffering doesn\u2019t create love. It\u2019s a hot-house, where love can emerge.\u201d Then you say, \u201cWhy is that? The great barrier to love is ego\u2014the life of the self. In long-term suffering, you don\u2019t give eye to self-pity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cSlowly, almost imperceptibly, self dies;\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cand the death of self offers the ideal growing conditions for love.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>It\u2019s a hot-house\u2014yes. That\u2019s when the <em>beauty <\/em>of Christ begins to emerge in you, as a person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What I hear us talking about here is really\u2014we get married \/ we don\u2019t know how to love\u2014but we forge a covenant \/ we make a commitment. We enroll in the hot-house. We enroll in God\u2019s school of love, in which we\u2019re learning how two imperfect people go the distance with each other and not grow embittered to each other. You say, in the book, that we\u2019re constantly being put into crucibles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0You spoke about Naomi and Ruth being in a crucible of suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s make this personal. You\u2019ve been in some crucibles of suffering. You talk about the loss of your grandson, who died in the eighth month of pregnancy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet\u2019s move to another J-curve in your marriage, where there was a true crucible of suffering you and Jill had to go through, where you learned a dimension of love you could have never learned any other way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>And let me take an example of something that was in our marriage, but it was more in our family, because I think\u2014and I\u2019m answering your question\u2014the <em>hardest<\/em> thing for me to see in my life was self-will. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me give you a really simple example with that with our daughter, Kim. It\u2019s a seemingly silly example, but it was one of the first times where I found myself checking myself. Our daughter, Kim, was about nine years old, at the time. She was taking some crayons down to the basement, where we had a makeshift den. She had asked me to bring a big stack of Richard Scary books that she had\u2014that she just loved to read. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I was behind her\u2014we were walking down the basement steps. She spilled the crayons about two-thirds of the way down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said to her\u2014and I was thinking about my tendency to push into people, even with good ideas\u2014I said to her, \u201cKim, do you want me to help you?\u201d She shook her head no. The subtle difference of self-will between \u201cDo you want me to help you?\u201d and just moving in and helping her\u2014especially with a child with disabilities. So, I watched there, on the steps, waiting for about five minutes and just\u2014I\u2019m the manager \/ I start new organizations\u2014I\u2019m churning on the inside. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI find, when I don\u2019t do my will in little simple things like that\u2014there is just this\u2014<em>slowly<\/em> that inside churning <em>slows down<\/em>\u2014and I move into communion with my Heavenly Father. But that could be as much as transfer something to Jill\u2014as just interrupting her because I have a good idea and I want to say it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSimple like that\u2014but all those are functions of self-will\u2014or another example of that\u2014and this is a very generic one. I\u2019m sure this has happened to me a lot; but it took me a while, with just in relationship with Jill. Let\u2019s say you\u2019re honest with your spouse or friend, and they receive it badly. They don\u2019t say: \u201cOh, <em>thank you<\/em> for your honesty with me. I felt pride welling up with me all morning, and I just really needed a rebuke.\u201d [Laughter] Let\u2019s just say they don\u2019t say that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, just theoretically. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Just theoretically. When we\u2019re honest with someone; and they receive it badly, as many of us tend to do\u2014what we do is\u2014we push on the honesty harder. We say: \u201cNo, wait. You\u2019re changing the subject,\u201d or, \u201cYou didn\u2019t hear me.\u201d Then, within 30 seconds, you forget what the original honesty was about. What happened is you\u2019ve gotten into a quarrel with the other person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s how quarrels start\u2014is someone refuses honesty. Then let\u2019s say the person that you\u2019re being honest with\u2014say you\u2019re being honest with your wife, and she receives it badly. Maybe she comes back and says to you, \u201cYou do the same thing.\u201d Our temptation there is to say: \u201cWait a minute. You\u2019re not really answering what I\u2019m saying here,\u201d or \u201cYou\u2019re changing the subject.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut this is where this J-curve\u2014the humility of Christ\u2014comes in. At that point\u2014to go lower down that path and just let them change the subject and say, \u201cHow?\u201d Let them win the argument, as it were.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think he\u2019s crazy; don\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I\u2019ve been in those situations. It\u2019s very difficult to keep your mouth shut. [Laughter]I have a high sense of justice. [Laughter] I want to go back to the original argument.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>But I will tell people, \u201cYou never have to quarrel again in your life.\u201d You see the almost <em>physical<\/em> humility of Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me tell you why I say physical humility of Jesus. In John 13, at the Last Supper, the disciples have had a quarrel. The camera speed of John\u2019s description of what Jesus does goes to slow motion because John tells us: \u201cHe rose from table, took off His outer garment, wrapped Himself with a towel, took a basin, and went to them and washed their feet.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJohn is absolutely <em>riveted <\/em>by Jesus\u2019 humility. No leader of any sort ever lowered himself that much. We see that, <em>physically<\/em>, in Jesus. That\u2019s why I like to say humility has this <em>physical<\/em> look to it. That\u2019s <em>all through<\/em> the book of Ruth\u2014there are all these vignettes of Ruth\u2019s <em>physical<\/em> humility. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn a quarrel, I can, <em>physically<\/em>, shut up. I can give the person my honesty, and then I can let them do what they want\u2014maybe come back once\u2014but let them have the last word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I can lose\u2014argument after argument after argument.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the wife who\u2019s hearing you say that\u2014and saying, \u201cSo, just be a doormat?\u201d Is that what you\u2019re saying?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>No, no, no, no because you are raising the honesty. You are raising the truth. You are saying the hard thing, but you\u2019re not demanding\u2014this is where self-will\u2014this is exactly the same move in my heart of asking Kim, on the steps, \u201cDo you want me to help you?\u201d In other words, there\u2019s a difference between giving honesty\u2014and that takes courage\u2014than <em>demanding<\/em> honesty. What happens when\u2014a quarrel is almost always when two people are demanding honesty with one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Give me another illustration, where you were tempted to demand honesty back, but you didn\u2019t\u2014you kept your cool.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Well, let me give you another one\u2014and I have Jill\u2019s permission to tell these stories. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were really tight, financially. She came home really upset over how little money we had. We had six kids\u2014this was 20 years ago\u2014but I really remember it very vividly. She didn\u2019t have money to buy hand cream\u2014she has eczema\u2014and she was frustrated with just a lot of things like that. I forgot, just possibly, about this whole theme of looking in compassion and gave Jill some advice. I suggested some way of saving money. She said, \u201cWell, we could save money by me going on vacation by myself.\u201d She\u2019s very funny\u2014although this wasn\u2019t funny. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe both went to bed that night, just mad at the other person. I realized that I hadn\u2019t entered her lament\u2014that I had <em>fixed<\/em> her. The next day, I apologized to her for that. She came back at me and says, \u201cWhy do you love so badly?\u201d I said, \u201cYou know, it\u2019s really something I\u2019m working on, and I just thank you for your patience with me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJust after a little bit, I said, \u201cJill, when you\u2019re upset and you\u2019re frustrated, just tell me <em>why<\/em> you\u2019re frustrated, as opposed to anger at me.\u201d I remember that little thing was hard for her to hear\u2014that last little thing\u2014but it was in the context of slowing down, repenting, seeing how I\u2019d failed her. Does that make sense?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>I mean, these things really get complex.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They do, especially when you may say to your wife \/ or to your husband, \u201cJust stop and tell me what the issue is,\u201d when <em>they<\/em> may not know what the issue is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In other words, as human beings, we get all tangled up and knotted up around our emotions. We may not know: \u201cWhat in the world caused this in the first place?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019re on down having an argument, and it was caused by something that happened yesterday.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes. And just a quick example, from the book of Ruth\u2014Ruth does this <em>amazing<\/em> pledge of <em>hesed <\/em>love to Naomi: \u201cWhere you go, I will go; where you stay, I will stay.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, people use it in their weddings because it\u2019s such a beautiful description of love. It\u2019s a description of <em>hesed<\/em> love\u2014of sort of the Old Testament version of <em>agape <\/em>love\u2014of this committed love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Immediately<\/em>, Ruth bears the cost of that love because Naomi doesn\u2019t thank her. Then, a couple days later, when they\u2019re going into the city of Bethlehem, Naomi has a lament and says, \u201cGod has deserted me.\u201d Ruth is standing right there, next to her\u2014it is God\u2019s care for her, and she doesn\u2019t introduce her to her friends. The next day, she doesn\u2019t offer to help with the grain\u2014she doesn\u2019t point her out to Boaz. It\u2019s entirely one-way love. It\u2019s that one-way love\u2014that <em>hesed<\/em> love\u2014that strips your will and your ego if you don\u2019t give in to bitterness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s what you and Jill were learning in those moments in the crucible\u2014when you weren\u2019t seeing things the same way\u2014and you were learning how to interact with one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst of all, \u201cI\u2019m not going anywhere.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI\u2019m committed\u2014I\u2019m here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cEven in the hard times, I\u2019m here.\u201d And then, secondly, \u201cI\u2019m here for your good, and I will make that a priority.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s what\u2019s at the heart of the kind of love that you\u2019re outlining for us; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right. And very much along the lines of this idea of\u2014remember this Disney story\u2014of the pattern of Jesus\u2019 life is going down into humbling and up into resurrection. So, it\u2019s death\u2014resurrection. Paul, all through his writings, says that\u2019s the normal pattern of the Christian life. In Philippians 3:10, he says, \u201cI want to know Christ and the fellowship of sharing in His suffering.\u201d Paul embraces Christ in the crucible: \u201cI accept this, as from my Father; and I embrace the fellowship of sharing in His sufferings.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You say, in the book\u2014and I think this is helpful\u2014you say, \u201cThe difference between Disney and Christianity is that Disney is based on groundless human optimism.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cChristianity is based on real divine hope.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that\u2019s where the difference between going from good to bad to good\u2014in Disney\u2014it happens because we\u2019re good people and we rise to the occasion in the midst of whatever we\u2019re facing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right. And Disney sets people up! I mean, the whole mindset of Disney has so captured our culture, at sort of almost every level. Love and marriage have now taken the place of what faith did at one time. Love and marriage almost have a sort of an idol status in our culture\u2014so they\u2019re weighted with far more than they can deliver. That sets people up for, I would say, one of the dominant feelings that people have of love\u2014by the time they\u2019re in their 30s, or even late 20s, and 40s\u2014is cynicism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause they\u2019ve been through, not the J-curve, but they\u2019ve started with this unrealistic\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They\u2019ve been through the Disney curve.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>\u2014they\u2019ve been through the Disney curve. There\u2019s no resurrection; and it\u2019s just, \u201cI\u2019m stuck with this difficult person.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The Disney curve is fantasy-land.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What people are longing and hoping for is not on this side of the golden gates of heaven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>So, when people encounter the bottoming-out\u2014\u201cI\u2019m living with someone who\u2026\u201d\u2014 let\u2019s say your spouse mocks you\u2014I\u2019ve seen that in marriages. To be in that marriage is to go through a constant humiliation. That becomes\u2014it can\u2014you really have only two choices on that\u2014either bitterness and opting out of the marriage\u2014or entering into this strange fellowship of sharing in His sufferings \/ becoming like Him in His death so, somehow, I may attain the resurrection of the dead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPaul <em>wants<\/em> this. He just doesn\u2019t <em>endure<\/em> it\u2014he <em>wants<\/em>\u2014because that\u2019s where he gets to know Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>As you\u2019re talking, I\u2019m thinking about a woman I know who is in a marriage where\u2014well, her husband doesn\u2019t know what it is to be a man \/ doesn\u2019t know how to provide, protect his wife \/ his children. In the midst of that, what you say God is calling her to do is to embrace the suffering \/ embrace the crucible that she\u2019s in, and learn how to love, and not give up. I think of that picture and I think, \u201cThat\u2019s impossible!\u201d The only way that can be done is\u2014not through human strength.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It can only be done in the power of the Holy Spirit\u2014who, if we\u2019re a follower of Christ, we have the same power that raised Christ from the dead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Also, we have to get in the Book\u2014and I\u2019m sorry, Paul, not your book\u2014but the Bible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It doesn\u2019t hurt us to read a good book, like your book; but we have to get in the Book that realigns our thinking\u2014reminds us when we\u2019re being selfish\u2014and also teaches us how to suffer for doing what\u2019s right. That is one of the themes of the Bible\u2014that we need to endure suffering and honor Jesus Christ in the midst of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes. Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s not normal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and it helps\u2014what you\u2019re doing in your book is\u2014you\u2019re taking listeners on a journey that you have been on, through the book of Ruth, where you\u2019ve been able to look at what that account from the Bible teaches us about love. You can apply that in your own life, in your own family, in your own marriage; and you can help us do the same thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have copies of Paul Miller\u2019s book, <em>A Loving Life<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. I hope our listeners will go to our website, which is FamilyLifeToday.com, click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d and the information you need about Paul\u2019s book is available right there. You can order it from us, online. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe also have a link to a resource that your wife put together, Dennis. It\u2019s called \u201cHow Do I Love Thee?\u201d We talked about this at Valentine\u2019s Day this year, but this is a garland that you hang in your home. You can put it in the dining area, or in the kitchen, or put it in one of the kids\u2019 bedrooms, if you want. You attach hearts to the garland. Each heart has a different characteristic of love\u2014love is patient or love is kind\u2014taken from \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1 Corinthians, Chapter 13. You can pull down the heart; and there\u2019s a devotional on the inside that you can read together, as a family. You can look together at the characteristics of real love and begin to cultivate that in your home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFolks, who are interested\u2014in Paul\u2019s book, or in the \u201cHow Do I Love Thee\u201d garland, or any of the resources Barbara\u2019s been developing in the Ever Thine Home<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> collection\u2014they can go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Again, click the link, in the upper left-hand corner, that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d The information about the resources we\u2019ve talked about here are available right there. Or you can call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d\u20141-800-358-6329. Let us know what you\u2019re interested in, and we\u2019ll arrange to get it sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I\u2019ve been thinking, throughout our conversation here, about the overlap between the subject of Paul\u2019s book and our mission, as a ministry. Our goal is to effectively develop godly families. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s possible for us to have godly families unless love is right in the center\u2014love for God first and then love for one another, as a result of our love for God. That\u2019s our focus, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We want to effectively develop strong, healthy, godly families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do a lot in partnership with local churches. You know, this is Pastor Appreciation Month. A lot of churches, over the last several years, have been hosting <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> events for couples or the <em>Stepping Up<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> series for men\u2014tools that we have created to be used in local churches \/ local congregations for spiritual enrichment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI got a note passed to me recently that said that the folks at Tulsa Bible Church, where Jim Johnson is the senior pastor and Andrew Moss is the pastor for student and family ministries\u2014they have done both the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> and <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> over the last couple of years. I\u2019ve had the chance to speak at Tulsa Bible Church\u2014it\u2019s a great church and we\u2019re grateful for Dr. Johnson and his ministry there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, somebody just recently was talking to me about his ministry at Tulsa Bible Church\u2014was just bragging on him. We wanted you to know about this because some of you are financial supporters of this ministry. You helped us create the resources that Tulsa Bible Church and other churches are using, all across the country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, thank you, if you\u2019re a supporter of this ministry\u2014if you\u2019re a Legacy Partner, giving each month, or if you make an occasional contribution to help support us. Thank you for partnering with us in this endeavor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, if you can make a donation right now, we\u2019d like to express our thanks, tangibly, by sending you a resource that Barbara Rainey has created\u2014that\u2019s a chalkboard to hang in your home\u2014in your kitchen, or in your dining area, or maybe in one of the kids\u2019 bedrooms. The chalkboard, at the top, is in the shape of a house. It says, \u201cIn this home we give thanks for\u201d and then you can write, in chalk, the things that you\u2019re thankful for in your home and in your family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a great way to cultivate thanksgiving and gratitude in your home. It\u2019s our gift to you when you make a donation today. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click in the upper right-hand corner of the screen, where it says, \u201cI Care.\u201d You can make an online donation and request the chalkboard; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY, make a donation over the phone, and request the chalkboard when you do. Or write us a note\u2014let us know that you\u2019d like the chalkboard and include a donation. Our mailing address is P O \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBox 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to include a special guest on our program. Paul Miller\u2019s going to be back with us, and we\u2019ll introduce you to somebody he loves very much. You\u2019ll get a chance to meet her tomorrow. Hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303229","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303229"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303229"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303229"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303229"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303229"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303229"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303229"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}