{"id":303223,"date":"2014-10-08T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-10-08T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/taking-on-the-heart-of-forgiveness\/"},"modified":"2014-10-08T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-10-08T15:00:00","slug":"taking-on-the-heart-of-forgiveness","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/taking-on-the-heart-of-forgiveness\/","title":{"rendered":"Taking on the Heart of Forgiveness"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Leslie Leyland Fields reflects on her own journey of forgiveness which began one Sunday as the Lord&#8217;s Prayer pierced her heart. Leslie shares what she did to see her father through the eyes of Christ.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-08.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.46M","filesize_raw":"24595837","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2825],"tags":[4394,2288,2699,5455],"podcast_series":[8040],"cwp_profile":[3067],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303223","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-honoring-your-parents","tag-abusive-father","tag-adult-children","tag-forgiveness","tag-neglect","podcast_series-forgiving-our-fathers-and-mothers","cwp_profile-leslie-leyland-fields","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303223\/taking-on-the-heart-of-forgiveness","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303223\/taking-on-the-heart-of-forgiveness","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"cHvbv1gqwX\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/taking-on-the-heart-of-forgiveness\/\">Taking on the Heart of Forgiveness<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/taking-on-the-heart-of-forgiveness\/embed\/#?secret=cHvbv1gqwX\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Taking on the Heart of Forgiveness&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"cHvbv1gqwX\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-08.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-08.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things that is not optional for those who are followers of Jesus is to be forgiving to others. Here\u2019s Leslie Fields.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Forgiven people must be forgiving people. Forgiving my father has changed my life because it is turning me into a person who <em>wants<\/em> to forgive. God expects that of us. The forgiveness that He\u2019s given to us was never meant to be private, or small, or individual. It is meant to be this balm that goes out. It starts, right here, in our families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, October 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We have a responsibility, in Christ, to forgive others. So, how do we do that when it\u2019s really hard? We\u2019re going to explore that today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I\u2019ve never seen any statistics on this\u2014it would just be curious for me to know how many adult children today are estranged from a mother or a father.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What percentage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. I know people who have great healthy relationships with parents and grandparents.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Many; many.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But I also routinely run into folks who have these disconnected, disjointed, hurtful, angry relationships between parent and child.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s ask Leslie Leyland Fields what she thinks. Leslie\u2014welcome back to the broadcast. What percent would you say? I\u2019m going to put my finger on a number. What percent?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>You\u2019re going to ask me for a number.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the number I want to give\u2014a lot\u2014the number\u2014a lot. In the course of writing this book, people would ask me: \u201cLeslie, what are you working on now? What\u2019s your next book on?\u201d I would say, \u201cForgiving your fathers and mothers.\u201d Their eyes would go big; and they would say, \u201cAhhh, I need that book!\u201d I am astounded at how many adult children are estranged from their parents\u2014or alienated.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Maybe they have a functional relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes\u2014maybe, they\u2019re still talking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there\u2019s a wall up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And there are places we don\u2019t go. There is hidden hurt and bitterness in their hearts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It\u2019s a very limited \/ very limited, narrow relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And here\u2019s the thing, Dennis\u2014the Bible is pretty clear about forgiveness as not one of the options for you, as a follower of Jesus. But it was Jesus who said, \u201cIf you fail to forgive\u2014when you stand before your Father, you will not be forgiven.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And Paul said in Ephesians 4:32, \u201cBe kind to one another, tenderhearted\u2026\u201d There\u2019s the soil\u2014kind of the soil of where forgiveness comes from. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then He commands us, \u201cForgiving one another as God in Christ forgave you.\u201d We\u2019re to forgive because we\u2019ve been forgiven. Frankly, a follower of Christ really ought to be an affluent forgiver \/ ought to be somebody who is abundantly moving toward other people with forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>And I want to recall one more passage\u2014<em>key <\/em>passage. Every Sunday, in my church, we say the Lord\u2019s Prayer. There it is\u2014right smack in the middle of the Lord\u2019s Prayer. The disciples asked Him, \u201cTeach us to pray.\u201d Right in the middle of that prayer \/ that model\u2014that perfect prayer: \u201cForgive us our sins as,\u201d\u2014as\u2014\u201cwe forgive those who sin against us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Our listeners have heard this week about your relationship with your father, growing up. He was emotionally-distant \/ often physically-distant. He was a traveling salesman\u2014he was on the road. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen he was home, there was anger \/ there was attempted sexual abuse with children. There was no relationship. When you left\u2014at 18, to go off to college, you left without any looking back and had almost no contact with your dad over a 30-year period, until you packed up the six grandkids and said\u2014\u201cHey, we\u2019re going to go meet my dad, 5,000 miles away,\u201d\u2014and reopened the door to a relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWere you thinking, when you took your kids down to meet their grandfather, who they\u2019d never met, and you couldn\u2019t bring yourself to call the man their grandfather\u2014were you thinking, \u201c This is going to be the beginning of the process I need to go through in forgiving my father.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I hoped that it was the beginning, but we didn\u2019t finish that story. By the end of that visit\u2014we were there together for about four hours\u2014and my father was resistant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe did not talk to me \/ he didn\u2019t look at me. At the end of those four hours, I had determined: \u201cThat\u2019s it! I am done. I am really done. I am never coming back<em>.<\/em>\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI paid $10,000 to get everybody here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI took two days\u2014four hours\u2014you\u2019re not looking at me.\u201d You just wipe the dust and move on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Exactly! I did\u2014I wiped the dust off my feet and I went back home. I thought: \u201cThe door is closed. I\u2019m done.\u201d It wasn\u2019t until\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Wasn\u2019t it the Lord\u2019s Prayer that ultimately hit you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It was\u2014it was. I was in church\u2014so it was a combination of two things. It was the phone call from my sister and then, in church, praying the Lord\u2019s Prayer. My head is bowed\u2014<em>oh I\u2019m being so holy<\/em>\u2014and I\u2019m praying the Lord\u2019s Prayer. <em>Those words<\/em> came out of my own lips: \u201cForgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.\u201d My <em>eyes popped wide open<\/em>, and two words: \u201cMy father\u2014my father.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s when God really began to work \/ began to pry my fists open\u2014open to His Word and to what God requires of all of us\u2014that we forgive\u2014<em>even<\/em> those who have offended us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You have already shared with us that the first step in that forgiveness process for you was to write out and name the offenses. You took time\u2014I\u2019m imagining it was not days but weeks or months that you catalogued\u2014that you brought to mind the things that your father had done?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. It was over a period of time. It\u2019s hard because it\u2019s a process of grieving. You\u2019re confessing, but you\u2019re also grieving over these things. It\u2019s important not to hurry through that. It\u2019s important to let that time be whatever it needs to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How did you know you were done with that time? How did you know: \u201cOkay, I have grieved this \/ I have it catalogued. I\u2019m ready to move to the next step\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I was just sick of it all. [Laughter] I was sick of myself, and I was sick of all those emotions that it was calling up. I knew\u2014here\u2019s the wonderful thing\u2014yes, we\u2019re never alone in this process\u2014just as you said. The Holy Spirit is with us and His Word. I try to be in His Word every day\u2014so the Word of God drew me to the next place\u2014out of my anger. Oh my goodness, it was so good to leave that behind\u2014on to the next step.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. You write about these steps in your book, <em>Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers.<\/em> Let\u2019s talk about that second step. Again, I just want to say, what you said earlier, too, Leslie. This process of forgiveness can take time. It is a process, and it might take months. It might even take over a year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You don\u2019t sit down in an evening and work your way through the four steps and be done with it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I almost commented, in an earlier broadcast, as Leslie was talking, but decided not to interrupt her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI almost commented that this is where I think the Christian community sometimes whitewashes, or over-spiritualizes, or puts a lot of religious talk around deep dark wounds\u2014that they just, for a moment, need to let them be what they are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Admit it so that, when the forgiveness is lavished upon the other person for those deep wounds, it\u2019s meaningful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s not cheap forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>When we try to just plaster over whatever those events were \/ whatever those hurts and wounds are, we\u2019ve got a cheap forgiveness. It\u2019s not going to stand the test of time\u2014for one thing. Those hurts are just going to break right on through, at some point. We do have that tendency to just want to skip over that hard part. We think, as Christians, we\u2019re supposed to be happy and joyful all the time. We\u2019re victorious in Christ and so we don\u2019t want to be opening the doors to dark rooms and to shadows. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut Jesus said, \u201cThe truth will set you free.\u201d The truth does set us free\u2014even the truth about the hard things and the awful things. Even naming those truths does begin to set us free.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, in fact, just to speak of God\u2019s forgiveness of us\u2014He follows the same pattern. We were enemies of God\u2014the Scriptures tell us. God names it\u2014He talks about the truth; and yet He sent His Son to die on a cross on our behalf. Okay, let\u2019s get to the second step, then.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Okay. The second step is what I call \u201cbecoming human.\u201d Up to this point, we have looked at our parent through the eyes of a child. We see them through what C.S. Lewis calls \u201cneed love.\u201d We need all these things from them; right? They\u2019re not providing these things for us, and the next step that we take\u2014we have to look deeper\u2014and we have to see that person, who has wounded us, as a child themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have to see them as a human being themselves\u2014not just as a mother or father\u2014not just in that role that they\u2019ve failed in. We have to see them as a <em>whole person<\/em>. We have to recognize that we are not the only ones who set off on the road\u2014like the parable of the Good Samaritan; right? We set out on this highway toward adulthood. Somewhere, along the way\u2014we are jumped, we are robbed, we are beaten, we are left bleeding beside the road\u2014there we are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are bleeding. We need someone to come by. If we lift our head up from the side of the road and look across the road, you know what we\u2019re going to see? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDo you know who\u2019s over there, on the other side of the road? Do you know who else started off on that road, just as we did?\u2014our mother, our father, our stepmother, our grandfather\u2014whomever that person is. They lie there, on the other side of the road, just like you. That\u2019s a key moment\u2014to lift our head and look over and see them there\u2014and our heart should go out to them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you know anything about <em>your<\/em> father\u2019s childhood? Did you know anything about what he might have experienced, growing up, that might have left him wounded, and bleeding, and not talking to his kids, and running away from home every day to go have ice cream and a cup of coffee and leave his family abandoned?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t know very much, Bob. This is a part of this next step that\u2019s really important\u2014is, if you don\u2019t know much about your mother, or father, or whomever this person is\u2014about their childhood \/ about the early years of their marriage\u2014go find out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo find out however you can. For me, it meant another trip down to Florida. My father had one living relative\u2014a brother. I flew down and I spent several wonderful hours with them\u2014just learning about his childhood \/ learning about what his experience was like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat gave me deep compassion for my father because I recognized a whole pattern in his life\u2014a pattern of failure and a pattern of rejection. He was rejected by many people in his life. That broke my heart because I began to see him, for the first time, as a human being rather than as just my father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I have often talked to people who would describe for me traumatic experiences at the hands of a mother or a father\u2014who only learned, later, that that mother or father had experienced more severe trauma in their own life, as a child, than what they dished out, as a parent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s like\u2014when the child realizes Mom and Dad were fighting against their own background \/ their own experience\u2014and they didn\u2019t fight perfectly, but they did better than what they had gotten\u2014there can be some compassion that comes in that moment; can\u2019t there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Absolutely. There is a phrase that is something of a clich\u00e9, but it is just so true I have to say it: \u201cHurt people hurt people.\u201d Those who are wounding other people\u2014you know\u2014you know there is deep woundedness within them. I think that\u2019s a very important step we have to take\u2014is to look into their life. We will find compassion, and pity, and mercy for that person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re not excusing your father\u2019s behavior in that moment\u2014you\u2019re not saying, \u201cOh, well\u201d; and he\u2019s off the hook for what he did because, \u201cObviously, he had bad things\u2014he couldn\u2019t help it.\u201d You\u2019re not explaining it away.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You are just understanding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Right, right. It\u2019s not an excuse\u2014it is understanding\u2014it is understanding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I call this process: \u201cLooking at your parents through the eyes of Christ,\u201d\u2014the phrase in the New Testament\u2014Jesus looked at Jerusalem; and He felt compassion because it was described, \u201cThey were like sheep without a shepherd.\u201d More than likely, your parents, at some point in their lives, experienced life without a shepherd \/ without someone guiding as they should have been guiding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe next step you talk about in the process of forgiveness is taking on the heart of forgiveness. Unpack what you mean by that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. We look at our parent now with compassion. We recognize we are both wounded travelers on the path of life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s really important that we identify with our parents that way in the woundedness. There\u2019s another really important way we need to identify with our parents\u2014and that is who we both are before God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a parable\u2014the parable of the two masters. We know this parable, but the Word of God continually speaks to us. This parable has been <em>so powerful<\/em> for me because it correctly identifies who I am before God; and it correctly identifies who my father was before God. So, you guys know the story; right? We have a king here\u2014and he calls in one of his subjects, who owes him <em>a lot<\/em> of money\u2014<em>millions <\/em>of dollars; right? He calls him in, and the subject can\u2019t pay. The king knows that he can\u2019t pay these debts\u2014it\u2019s impossible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the king does what\u2014this is a great and merciful king. The king could have thrown him in prison\u2014in debtor\u2019s prison\u2014as many kings do. Not this king\u2014this king says: \u201cThere\u2019s only one thing that I really can do, and that is I\u2019m going to erase your debt. You\u2019re free. I\u2019m going to <em>free you<\/em> from your debts.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo this man\u2014<em>this freed man<\/em>\u2014he just got out of prison! He just got his life back! He is free! Hallelujah! He runs out of the presence of the king. What\u2019s the first thing that he does; right? He <em>grabs<\/em> the next guy, who owes him nothing\u2014a nickel. This guy owes him a <em>nickel<\/em>, and he demands that he pay the nickel back. So, there we are\u2014we\u2019re in there. Do you see yourself in there? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Sure; sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Are you aware, Bob and Dennis?\u2014yes, so that\u2019s us. We\u2019re that first person who is called in before God. Our debts are unpayable\u2014our sins against God are unpayable\u2014and God says: \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to pay them. I\u2019m going to pay them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus went to the cross to pay for those sins. The last word that Jesus said on the cross: \u201cIt is finished,\u201d\u2014that word \u201cfinished\u201d means \u201cpaid in full\u201d\u2014your account\u2014paid in full.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI run out of the presence of God, and I run to my father. I\u2019m grabbing my father by the neck and I\u2019m saying to him: \u201cHey, you owe me! You owe me!\u201d No. No, no, no. My sins against God are <em>so much greater<\/em>. They are <em>so much greater<\/em> than my father\u2019s sins against me. God knew I couldn\u2019t pay my sins; you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI looked at my father\u2014and I recognized, too, my father cannot pay back what he owes. He cannot pay\u2014so I\u2019m going to release those debts. That\u2019s what God expects of us. He has released us from every sin, every debt\u2014everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd He\u2019s released us\u2014not just so that we can be free, happy people\u2014He released us for the very purpose of us going out and releasing others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I, sometimes, wonder if people\u2014who struggle with being able to forgive a father, or a mother, or somebody who has offended them in a terrible way\u2014if they really do understand what God\u2019s mercy toward them has been.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s our problem every time we don\u2019t forgive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes, I agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think we all are just a step away from piously going, \u201cI\u2019m going to get back at you,\u201d because we\u2019ve forgotten God\u2019s mercy \/ God\u2019s grace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>We\u2019ve forgotten who we were\u2014just really rotten, terrible sinners before God!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ve minimized it. We\u2019ve dumbed it down\u2014that\u2019s what we often do. We go, \u201cYes, I know God was gracious toward me; but I wasn\u2019t that bad.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s our\u2014that\u2019s our thing. That\u2019s why the Bible comes back and says: \u201cOh, no. Oh, no. You were\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cYou did owe millions.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cYou did owe millions.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u201cYou did owe more than you could ever pay in your lifetime.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. Once you can get it into your heart and head: \u201cThat\u2019s true. God has released me from the obligation there,\u201d then it\u2019s really hard to turn to the next person and say, \u201cBut you still owe me a pound of flesh in all of this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And Leslie, I don\u2019t want to move past a message that is one that I know that is on your heart\u2014and that is that God has called us, as followers of Christ, to move into the world with this forgiveness\u2014to not just hoard it in our families but to express this forgiveness in the marketplace\u2014that it would be a balm of healing and peace to all that we come in contact with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Absolutely. We are called\u2014forgiven people must be forgiving people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope that we can start, right there, in our families. I have to say\u2014my life has been changed. Forgiving my father has changed my life because it is turning me into a person who <em>wants<\/em> to forgive\u2014who is ready and quick to forgive. I\u2019m not perfect. Watch\u2014someone\u2019s going to hear this broadcast, and they\u2019re going to test me. They\u2019re going to [Laughter]\u2014please don\u2019t do that! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod showed me His heart of mercy toward my father. My father was given people\u2014Christians, all along his path\u2014right up to the moment he died. That\u2019s how much God loved my father. He gave him unending moments of mercy to lead him to Himself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSeeing the merciful heart of God has changed me. I want to offer that mercy to others, and God expects that of us. What can salve and heal the wounds of the world?\u2014forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. And Leslie, there\u2019s one last question I want to ask you that is going to test that forgiveness you gave your dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I don\u2019t mean to interrupt you, but let me let our listeners know how they can get a copy of Leslie\u2019s book before you ask her your final question. We have the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. It\u2019s called <em>Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers: Finding Freedom from Hurt and Hate<\/em>. You can request a copy of the book when you go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. That\u2019s our website: FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you get there, click the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d You\u2019ll find information about Leslie\u2019s book. There\u2019s also information about a book that Dennis Rainey has written called <em>The Forgotten Commandment<\/em> about honoring our fathers and our mothers and about, proactively, writing a tribute to honor our parents. Our listeners may want to get both of these books as they process through what we\u2019re talking about here this week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER\u201d; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and ask for more information about the books we\u2019ve talked about. You can order them from us, online; or you can order by phone\u2014again, 1-800-FL-TODAY or, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s been our privilege this week to spend a real rich time of discussing life\u2019s most important relationships\u2014beginning with our mom and dad\u2014and forgiving them. Leslie Fields has helped us do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s the assignment. Folks have listened to a pretty dramatic story about a daughter who was estranged from her father for more than 50 years\u2014really, practically speaking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>If I had the ability, right now, to seat your dad across the table from you and you could give him a tribute\u2014a verbal tribute\u2014and Bob and I would leave the studio\u2014could you give him a tribute?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I would honestly have a hard time saying, \u201cThank you for this and thank you for that.\u201d I don\u2019t have a lot of things I can thank him for, but I can thank him for life. I can thank him for showing me God\u2019s heart. I can thank him for receiving me when I flew down and visited with him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I came down to be with him after his stroke, he listened to me \/ he heard me\u2014I think for the first time in my life. He heard me, and he saw me. I would thank him for those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I think you\u2019re pretty courageous that you can move toward a spirit of gratefulness and thankfulness in a very, very tough situation. I just appreciate you being a woman of faith, a pioneer, and a survivor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.46M"],"filesize_raw":["24595837"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303223.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303223.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Leyland Fields reflects on her own journey of forgiveness which began one Sunday as the Lord's Prayer pierced her heart. Leslie shares what she did to see her father through the eyes of Christ.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things that is not optional for those who are followers of Jesus is to be forgiving to others. Here\u2019s Leslie Fields.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Forgiven people must be forgiving people. Forgiving my father has changed my life because it is turning me into a person who <em>wants<\/em> to forgive. God expects that of us. The forgiveness that He\u2019s given to us was never meant to be private, or small, or individual. It is meant to be this balm that goes out. It starts, right here, in our families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, October 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We have a responsibility, in Christ, to forgive others. So, how do we do that when it\u2019s really hard? We\u2019re going to explore that today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I\u2019ve never seen any statistics on this\u2014it would just be curious for me to know how many adult children today are estranged from a mother or a father.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What percentage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. I know people who have great healthy relationships with parents and grandparents.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Many; many.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But I also routinely run into folks who have these disconnected, disjointed, hurtful, angry relationships between parent and child.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s ask Leslie Leyland Fields what she thinks. Leslie\u2014welcome back to the broadcast. What percent would you say? I\u2019m going to put my finger on a number. What percent?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>You\u2019re going to ask me for a number.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the number I want to give\u2014a lot\u2014the number\u2014a lot. In the course of writing this book, people would ask me: \u201cLeslie, what are you working on now? What\u2019s your next book on?\u201d I would say, \u201cForgiving your fathers and mothers.\u201d Their eyes would go big; and they would say, \u201cAhhh, I need that book!\u201d I am astounded at how many adult children are estranged from their parents\u2014or alienated.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Maybe they have a functional relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes\u2014maybe, they\u2019re still talking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there\u2019s a wall up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And there are places we don\u2019t go. There is hidden hurt and bitterness in their hearts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It\u2019s a very limited \/ very limited, narrow relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And here\u2019s the thing, Dennis\u2014the Bible is pretty clear about forgiveness as not one of the options for you, as a follower of Jesus. But it was Jesus who said, \u201cIf you fail to forgive\u2014when you stand before your Father, you will not be forgiven.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And Paul said in Ephesians 4:32, \u201cBe kind to one another, tenderhearted\u2026\u201d There\u2019s the soil\u2014kind of the soil of where forgiveness comes from. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then He commands us, \u201cForgiving one another as God in Christ forgave you.\u201d We\u2019re to forgive because we\u2019ve been forgiven. Frankly, a follower of Christ really ought to be an affluent forgiver \/ ought to be somebody who is abundantly moving toward other people with forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>And I want to recall one more passage\u2014<em>key <\/em>passage. Every Sunday, in my church, we say the Lord\u2019s Prayer. There it is\u2014right smack in the middle of the Lord\u2019s Prayer. The disciples asked Him, \u201cTeach us to pray.\u201d Right in the middle of that prayer \/ that model\u2014that perfect prayer: \u201cForgive us our sins as,\u201d\u2014as\u2014\u201cwe forgive those who sin against us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Our listeners have heard this week about your relationship with your father, growing up. He was emotionally-distant \/ often physically-distant. He was a traveling salesman\u2014he was on the road. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen he was home, there was anger \/ there was attempted sexual abuse with children. There was no relationship. When you left\u2014at 18, to go off to college, you left without any looking back and had almost no contact with your dad over a 30-year period, until you packed up the six grandkids and said\u2014\u201cHey, we\u2019re going to go meet my dad, 5,000 miles away,\u201d\u2014and reopened the door to a relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWere you thinking, when you took your kids down to meet their grandfather, who they\u2019d never met, and you couldn\u2019t bring yourself to call the man their grandfather\u2014were you thinking, \u201c This is going to be the beginning of the process I need to go through in forgiving my father.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I hoped that it was the beginning, but we didn\u2019t finish that story. By the end of that visit\u2014we were there together for about four hours\u2014and my father was resistant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe did not talk to me \/ he didn\u2019t look at me. At the end of those four hours, I had determined: \u201cThat\u2019s it! I am done. I am really done. I am never coming back<em>.<\/em>\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI paid $10,000 to get everybody here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI took two days\u2014four hours\u2014you\u2019re not looking at me.\u201d You just wipe the dust and move on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Exactly! I did\u2014I wiped the dust off my feet and I went back home. I thought: \u201cThe door is closed. I\u2019m done.\u201d It wasn\u2019t until\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Wasn\u2019t it the Lord\u2019s Prayer that ultimately hit you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It was\u2014it was. I was in church\u2014so it was a combination of two things. It was the phone call from my sister and then, in church, praying the Lord\u2019s Prayer. My head is bowed\u2014<em>oh I\u2019m being so holy<\/em>\u2014and I\u2019m praying the Lord\u2019s Prayer. <em>Those words<\/em> came out of my own lips: \u201cForgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.\u201d My <em>eyes popped wide open<\/em>, and two words: \u201cMy father\u2014my father.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s when God really began to work \/ began to pry my fists open\u2014open to His Word and to what God requires of all of us\u2014that we forgive\u2014<em>even<\/em> those who have offended us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You have already shared with us that the first step in that forgiveness process for you was to write out and name the offenses. You took time\u2014I\u2019m imagining it was not days but weeks or months that you catalogued\u2014that you brought to mind the things that your father had done?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. It was over a period of time. It\u2019s hard because it\u2019s a process of grieving. You\u2019re confessing, but you\u2019re also grieving over these things. It\u2019s important not to hurry through that. It\u2019s important to let that time be whatever it needs to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How did you know you were done with that time? How did you know: \u201cOkay, I have grieved this \/ I have it catalogued. I\u2019m ready to move to the next step\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I was just sick of it all. [Laughter] I was sick of myself, and I was sick of all those emotions that it was calling up. I knew\u2014here\u2019s the wonderful thing\u2014yes, we\u2019re never alone in this process\u2014just as you said. The Holy Spirit is with us and His Word. I try to be in His Word every day\u2014so the Word of God drew me to the next place\u2014out of my anger. Oh my goodness, it was so good to leave that behind\u2014on to the next step.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. You write about these steps in your book, <em>Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers.<\/em> Let\u2019s talk about that second step. Again, I just want to say, what you said earlier, too, Leslie. This process of forgiveness can take time. It is a process, and it might take months. It might even take over a year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You don\u2019t sit down in an evening and work your way through the four steps and be done with it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I almost commented, in an earlier broadcast, as Leslie was talking, but decided not to interrupt her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI almost commented that this is where I think the Christian community sometimes whitewashes, or over-spiritualizes, or puts a lot of religious talk around deep dark wounds\u2014that they just, for a moment, need to let them be what they are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Admit it so that, when the forgiveness is lavished upon the other person for those deep wounds, it\u2019s meaningful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s not cheap forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>When we try to just plaster over whatever those events were \/ whatever those hurts and wounds are, we\u2019ve got a cheap forgiveness. It\u2019s not going to stand the test of time\u2014for one thing. Those hurts are just going to break right on through, at some point. We do have that tendency to just want to skip over that hard part. We think, as Christians, we\u2019re supposed to be happy and joyful all the time. We\u2019re victorious in Christ and so we don\u2019t want to be opening the doors to dark rooms and to shadows. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut Jesus said, \u201cThe truth will set you free.\u201d The truth does set us free\u2014even the truth about the hard things and the awful things. Even naming those truths does begin to set us free.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, in fact, just to speak of God\u2019s forgiveness of us\u2014He follows the same pattern. We were enemies of God\u2014the Scriptures tell us. God names it\u2014He talks about the truth; and yet He sent His Son to die on a cross on our behalf. Okay, let\u2019s get to the second step, then.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Okay. The second step is what I call \u201cbecoming human.\u201d Up to this point, we have looked at our parent through the eyes of a child. We see them through what C.S. Lewis calls \u201cneed love.\u201d We need all these things from them; right? They\u2019re not providing these things for us, and the next step that we take\u2014we have to look deeper\u2014and we have to see that person, who has wounded us, as a child themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have to see them as a human being themselves\u2014not just as a mother or father\u2014not just in that role that they\u2019ve failed in. We have to see them as a <em>whole person<\/em>. We have to recognize that we are not the only ones who set off on the road\u2014like the parable of the Good Samaritan; right? We set out on this highway toward adulthood. Somewhere, along the way\u2014we are jumped, we are robbed, we are beaten, we are left bleeding beside the road\u2014there we are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are bleeding. We need someone to come by. If we lift our head up from the side of the road and look across the road, you know what we\u2019re going to see? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDo you know who\u2019s over there, on the other side of the road? Do you know who else started off on that road, just as we did?\u2014our mother, our father, our stepmother, our grandfather\u2014whomever that person is. They lie there, on the other side of the road, just like you. That\u2019s a key moment\u2014to lift our head and look over and see them there\u2014and our heart should go out to them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you know anything about <em>your<\/em> father\u2019s childhood? Did you know anything about what he might have experienced, growing up, that might have left him wounded, and bleeding, and not talking to his kids, and running away from home every day to go have ice cream and a cup of coffee and leave his family abandoned?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t know very much, Bob. This is a part of this next step that\u2019s really important\u2014is, if you don\u2019t know much about your mother, or father, or whomever this person is\u2014about their childhood \/ about the early years of their marriage\u2014go find out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo find out however you can. For me, it meant another trip down to Florida. My father had one living relative\u2014a brother. I flew down and I spent several wonderful hours with them\u2014just learning about his childhood \/ learning about what his experience was like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat gave me deep compassion for my father because I recognized a whole pattern in his life\u2014a pattern of failure and a pattern of rejection. He was rejected by many people in his life. That broke my heart because I began to see him, for the first time, as a human being rather than as just my father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I have often talked to people who would describe for me traumatic experiences at the hands of a mother or a father\u2014who only learned, later, that that mother or father had experienced more severe trauma in their own life, as a child, than what they dished out, as a parent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s like\u2014when the child realizes Mom and Dad were fighting against their own background \/ their own experience\u2014and they didn\u2019t fight perfectly, but they did better than what they had gotten\u2014there can be some compassion that comes in that moment; can\u2019t there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Absolutely. There is a phrase that is something of a clich\u00e9, but it is just so true I have to say it: \u201cHurt people hurt people.\u201d Those who are wounding other people\u2014you know\u2014you know there is deep woundedness within them. I think that\u2019s a very important step we have to take\u2014is to look into their life. We will find compassion, and pity, and mercy for that person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re not excusing your father\u2019s behavior in that moment\u2014you\u2019re not saying, \u201cOh, well\u201d; and he\u2019s off the hook for what he did because, \u201cObviously, he had bad things\u2014he couldn\u2019t help it.\u201d You\u2019re not explaining it away.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You are just understanding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Right, right. It\u2019s not an excuse\u2014it is understanding\u2014it is understanding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I call this process: \u201cLooking at your parents through the eyes of Christ,\u201d\u2014the phrase in the New Testament\u2014Jesus looked at Jerusalem; and He felt compassion because it was described, \u201cThey were like sheep without a shepherd.\u201d More than likely, your parents, at some point in their lives, experienced life without a shepherd \/ without someone guiding as they should have been guiding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe next step you talk about in the process of forgiveness is taking on the heart of forgiveness. Unpack what you mean by that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. We look at our parent now with compassion. We recognize we are both wounded travelers on the path of life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s really important that we identify with our parents that way in the woundedness. There\u2019s another really important way we need to identify with our parents\u2014and that is who we both are before God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a parable\u2014the parable of the two masters. We know this parable, but the Word of God continually speaks to us. This parable has been <em>so powerful<\/em> for me because it correctly identifies who I am before God; and it correctly identifies who my father was before God. So, you guys know the story; right? We have a king here\u2014and he calls in one of his subjects, who owes him <em>a lot<\/em> of money\u2014<em>millions <\/em>of dollars; right? He calls him in, and the subject can\u2019t pay. The king knows that he can\u2019t pay these debts\u2014it\u2019s impossible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the king does what\u2014this is a great and merciful king. The king could have thrown him in prison\u2014in debtor\u2019s prison\u2014as many kings do. Not this king\u2014this king says: \u201cThere\u2019s only one thing that I really can do, and that is I\u2019m going to erase your debt. You\u2019re free. I\u2019m going to <em>free you<\/em> from your debts.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo this man\u2014<em>this freed man<\/em>\u2014he just got out of prison! He just got his life back! He is free! Hallelujah! He runs out of the presence of the king. What\u2019s the first thing that he does; right? He <em>grabs<\/em> the next guy, who owes him nothing\u2014a nickel. This guy owes him a <em>nickel<\/em>, and he demands that he pay the nickel back. So, there we are\u2014we\u2019re in there. Do you see yourself in there? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Sure; sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Are you aware, Bob and Dennis?\u2014yes, so that\u2019s us. We\u2019re that first person who is called in before God. Our debts are unpayable\u2014our sins against God are unpayable\u2014and God says: \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to pay them. I\u2019m going to pay them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus went to the cross to pay for those sins. The last word that Jesus said on the cross: \u201cIt is finished,\u201d\u2014that word \u201cfinished\u201d means \u201cpaid in full\u201d\u2014your account\u2014paid in full.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI run out of the presence of God, and I run to my father. I\u2019m grabbing my father by the neck and I\u2019m saying to him: \u201cHey, you owe me! You owe me!\u201d No. No, no, no. My sins against God are <em>so much greater<\/em>. They are <em>so much greater<\/em> than my father\u2019s sins against me. God knew I couldn\u2019t pay my sins; you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI looked at my father\u2014and I recognized, too, my father cannot pay back what he owes. He cannot pay\u2014so I\u2019m going to release those debts. That\u2019s what God expects of us. He has released us from every sin, every debt\u2014everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd He\u2019s released us\u2014not just so that we can be free, happy people\u2014He released us for the very purpose of us going out and releasing others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I, sometimes, wonder if people\u2014who struggle with being able to forgive a father, or a mother, or somebody who has offended them in a terrible way\u2014if they really do understand what God\u2019s mercy toward them has been.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s our problem every time we don\u2019t forgive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes, I agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think we all are just a step away from piously going, \u201cI\u2019m going to get back at you,\u201d because we\u2019ve forgotten God\u2019s mercy \/ God\u2019s grace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>We\u2019ve forgotten who we were\u2014just really rotten, terrible sinners before God!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ve minimized it. We\u2019ve dumbed it down\u2014that\u2019s what we often do. We go, \u201cYes, I know God was gracious toward me; but I wasn\u2019t that bad.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s our\u2014that\u2019s our thing. That\u2019s why the Bible comes back and says: \u201cOh, no. Oh, no. You were\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cYou did owe millions.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cYou did owe millions.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u201cYou did owe more than you could ever pay in your lifetime.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. Once you can get it into your heart and head: \u201cThat\u2019s true. God has released me from the obligation there,\u201d then it\u2019s really hard to turn to the next person and say, \u201cBut you still owe me a pound of flesh in all of this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And Leslie, I don\u2019t want to move past a message that is one that I know that is on your heart\u2014and that is that God has called us, as followers of Christ, to move into the world with this forgiveness\u2014to not just hoard it in our families but to express this forgiveness in the marketplace\u2014that it would be a balm of healing and peace to all that we come in contact with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Absolutely. We are called\u2014forgiven people must be forgiving people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope that we can start, right there, in our families. I have to say\u2014my life has been changed. Forgiving my father has changed my life because it is turning me into a person who <em>wants<\/em> to forgive\u2014who is ready and quick to forgive. I\u2019m not perfect. Watch\u2014someone\u2019s going to hear this broadcast, and they\u2019re going to test me. They\u2019re going to [Laughter]\u2014please don\u2019t do that! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod showed me His heart of mercy toward my father. My father was given people\u2014Christians, all along his path\u2014right up to the moment he died. That\u2019s how much God loved my father. He gave him unending moments of mercy to lead him to Himself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSeeing the merciful heart of God has changed me. I want to offer that mercy to others, and God expects that of us. What can salve and heal the wounds of the world?\u2014forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. And Leslie, there\u2019s one last question I want to ask you that is going to test that forgiveness you gave your dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I don\u2019t mean to interrupt you, but let me let our listeners know how they can get a copy of Leslie\u2019s book before you ask her your final question. We have the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. It\u2019s called <em>Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers: Finding Freedom from Hurt and Hate<\/em>. You can request a copy of the book when you go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. That\u2019s our website: FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you get there, click the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d You\u2019ll find information about Leslie\u2019s book. There\u2019s also information about a book that Dennis Rainey has written called <em>The Forgotten Commandment<\/em> about honoring our fathers and our mothers and about, proactively, writing a tribute to honor our parents. Our listeners may want to get both of these books as they process through what we\u2019re talking about here this week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER\u201d; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and ask for more information about the books we\u2019ve talked about. You can order them from us, online; or you can order by phone\u2014again, 1-800-FL-TODAY or, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s been our privilege this week to spend a real rich time of discussing life\u2019s most important relationships\u2014beginning with our mom and dad\u2014and forgiving them. Leslie Fields has helped us do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s the assignment. Folks have listened to a pretty dramatic story about a daughter who was estranged from her father for more than 50 years\u2014really, practically speaking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>If I had the ability, right now, to seat your dad across the table from you and you could give him a tribute\u2014a verbal tribute\u2014and Bob and I would leave the studio\u2014could you give him a tribute?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I would honestly have a hard time saying, \u201cThank you for this and thank you for that.\u201d I don\u2019t have a lot of things I can thank him for, but I can thank him for life. I can thank him for showing me God\u2019s heart. I can thank him for receiving me when I flew down and visited with him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I came down to be with him after his stroke, he listened to me \/ he heard me\u2014I think for the first time in my life. He heard me, and he saw me. I would thank him for those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I think you\u2019re pretty courageous that you can move toward a spirit of gratefulness and thankfulness in a very, very tough situation. I just appreciate you being a woman of faith, a pioneer, and a survivor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. 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