{"id":303221,"date":"2014-10-07T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-10-07T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/baby-steps-to-forgiveness\/"},"modified":"2014-10-07T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-10-07T15:00:00","slug":"baby-steps-to-forgiveness","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/baby-steps-to-forgiveness\/","title":{"rendered":"Baby Steps to Forgiveness"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Leslie Leyland Fields talks about forgiving her father after years and years of estrangement. Leslie shares what God taught her about forgiving those who love us least.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-07.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.78M","filesize_raw":"23886428","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2825],"tags":[4394,2288,2699,5455],"podcast_series":[8040],"cwp_profile":[3067],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303221","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-honoring-your-parents","tag-abusive-father","tag-adult-children","tag-forgiveness","tag-neglect","podcast_series-forgiving-our-fathers-and-mothers","cwp_profile-leslie-leyland-fields","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303221\/baby-steps-to-forgiveness","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303221\/baby-steps-to-forgiveness","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"jUMUcsIbNr\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/baby-steps-to-forgiveness\/\">Baby Steps to Forgiveness<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/baby-steps-to-forgiveness\/embed\/#?secret=jUMUcsIbNr\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Baby Steps to Forgiveness&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"jUMUcsIbNr\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-07.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-07.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Author, Leslie Fields, says there is a cost to forgiving another person; but the cost of not forgiving is ultimately a much greater cost.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>What we\u2019re doing is\u2014we\u2019re feeding our own bitterness, we\u2019re feeding our own hurt, we are feeding our own hate. We are cutting ourselves off\u2014not only from <em>that <\/em>person \/ that offender\u2014but we\u2019re cutting ourselves off from lots of other people, as well, because that bitterness leaches out into all kinds of other relationships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, October 7<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. How do you work through the emotions\u2014the pain and the bitterness\u2014you may feel toward another person and get to a place of forgiveness? We\u2019re going to talk about that today. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I think\u2014and we\u2019ve talked about this this week. I think all of us grew up in whatever family we grew up in, thinking the family we grew up in was normal. Normal is defined as what you experience when you\u2019re growing up. I guess it\u2019s not until later that you meet other folks and go: \u201cOh wait. My normal and your normal were different normals<em>\u201d;<\/em> you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s kind of what happens when we get married. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s true; that\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>[Laughing] You are introduced to a new normal, and then you have to establish your own normal. We have a guest with us who knows a little bit about what you just said. Leslie Leyland Fields joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Leslie, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Thank you. Thanks for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Leslie is from near Kodiak, Alaska. I say near because she lives\u2014not all year\u2014but for a good part of the summer on an island called Harvester Island. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow big is the island you live on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It\u2019s a mile long and half-a-mile wide. We are the only inhabitants on the island\u2014that\u2019s the coolest part of all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you get the idea Dennis is a little jealous? [Laughter] I mean, you\u2019ve been here enough. Do you get the\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>--the sense that Dennis kind of wishes he\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I am an adventurer too\u2014I love the adventure. There are only two trees on the island\u2014that\u2019s what doesn\u2019t move me to want to live on Harvester Island. [Laughter] I\u2019d like to be tucked away in a little cove, surrounded by a forest. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there is something in your blood\u2014every time you talk about Alaska, I just see there\u2019s something like: \u201cI wish we could do<em> FamilyLife Today <\/em>from Juneau<em>\u201d<\/em>; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There\u2019s a guy I\u2019d like to interview up there. Maybe we\u2019ll get a chance to take you up there, Bob, and let you experience it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLeslie has co-authored a book with Dr. Jill Hubbard. The book is called <em>Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers<\/em>. Leslie has written seven other books besides this one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s really the story of how you, Leslie, grew in your ability to ultimately forgive your father and mother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In your growing-up experience, you grew up in a desperately poor family, with a father who was emotionally absent \/ often physically absent, who didn\u2019t really have any regard for you, as a child. You left home for college. I would have to imagine\u2014left home, thinking\u2014\u201cSee you all later.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No thought that you\u2019d want even to come back for Christmas, maybe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No; no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You were charting a new course\u2014and just glad to get out of the life that you had grown up with\u2014when you left, as a young adult.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Oh, absolutely. I had no idea what the future held; but I knew that, wherever I was going to be, it was going to be far away.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You were one of six. You all grew up \/ went your own way. I guess, not long after you all left home, your mother and father divorced.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes, just a few years after I went\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Where did your father go? What did he do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>He went down to Florida. He had always had the dream of living on a sailboat and sailing around the world. He actually had just a little bit of money\u2014he bought a very small, old sailboat. He lived on that sailboat for about ten years, I think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow. When you got news that your mom and dad were divorcing, did that have any emotional impact in your life at all?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes, it did. I was angry because I thought, \u201cWhy didn\u2019t that happen 20 years ago?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, really?! Why did you feel that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It would have made life a lot calmer for everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So your thought was not sadness that your mom and dad were not going to be husband and wife or mom and dad to you anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was just the thought that: \u201cLife would have been better for all of us if this had happened earlier.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. I actually felt a great sense of relief for them because it was so difficult for them to live together. I knew that this was probably better for both of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you stay in touch with your dad following the divorce?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No. We wrote <em>occasionally.<\/em> There was an <em>occasional <\/em>letter, but there was very little contact between us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What prompted the letters?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I wrote. My father never initiated contact at all. I think it was a sense of: \u201cThis is my father. That\u2019s supposed to mean something, and now he\u2019s away on his own.\u201d I felt bad for him. I was sort of checking in\u2014like: \u201cWho are you, now, that you\u2019re not\u2026\u201d\u2014maybe the six kids \/ maybe it was partly our fault that he was the way he was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cMaybe now he\u2019s going to be a different person. Maybe he\u2019ll care more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you never called long distance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No, he didn\u2019t have a phone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You never sent pictures of grandkids\u2014or did you do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No, I didn\u2019t do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>He would not have any interest in my children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, at what point, did the Spirit of God begin to move you from hurt and hate to forgiveness? When did that start?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>That started probably about ten years ago, now\u2014with a phone call. It was my sister calling me to tell me that my father had had some sort of heart attack or something. In that moment, I realized that my father was going to die. He was in his 80s by then\u2014he was 84. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI realized: \u201cMy father is going to die, and no one is going to cry. No one is going to shed a tear.\u201d That almost made me cry, all on its own, because it just completely violates all of creation\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u2014that God would have created this man, brought him to life, brought him into our family, made him the father of six children\u2014that he would live 80-some years, and die, and nobody would shed a tear. I knew that was <em>wrong<\/em>\u2014I knew that was <em>so wrong<\/em>. In a moment, God turned my heart back to him. I realized, \u201cI\u2019ve got to do something about this.\u201d The next moment, I knew that forgiveness was what was required of me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, but you couldn\u2019t embrace it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Oh, no\u2014no. It is: \u201cHow do I do this?\u201d I knew something had to happen\u2014and already the turning had already begun\u2014that \u201cOkay, this cannot happen. Someone needs to be sad when my father dies, but where to go next?\u201d No, I didn\u2019t know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A lot of people\u2014when they\u2019re confronted with what you were confronted with\u2014the only thing they can do \/ the only thing they think they can do is: \u201cI\u2019ve got to protect myself. Protect myself means stay walled-off from that whole emotional experience. If I go back near that thing again, the pain is going to be insurmountable.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A lot of people feel like\u2014if they forgive, they\u2019re placing themselves back in the crucible to be hurt in even a deeper way than they were before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>You know what? That\u2019s true\u2014that to forgive means to rip off those scars \/ to turn back and to open yourself to be vulnerable again to feelings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I have to tell you\u2014the feelings are so much worse \/ the pain of not loving someone is so much worse than the pain of loving\u2014maybe that love isn\u2019t returned exactly the way you\u2019d want it to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You can say that now because you\u2019re on the other side of the fence.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But when you\u2019re on the side of the fence, where some of our listeners are right now\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Or where you had to be ten years ago, when you were first confronted with this idea of \u201cI think I need to forgive my father,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m sure there were little voices, going, \u201cOh no, no, no, no.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. Here\u2019s what I discovered, along the way\u2014that we think that the cost of forgiving is too high\u2014for all the things that you just mentioned. But what I would say to that is\u2014the cost of not forgiving is much higher because, when we continue to wall ourselves off, and protect ourselves, and protect\u2014what we\u2019re doing is\u2014we\u2019re feeding our own bitterness;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\twe\u2019re feeding our own hurt; we\u2019re feeding our own hate. We are cutting ourselves off\u2014not only from <em>that <\/em>person \/ that offender\u2014but we\u2019re cutting ourselves off from lots of other people, as well, because that bitterness leaches out into all kinds of other relationships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You believe the reason some people don\u2019t forgive is because they\u2019re afraid. They\u2019re afraid that if they forgive it\u2019s going to erase accountability for all the ways they\u2019ve hurt us. Comment on that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. This is a really important point. I\u2019ve had people ask me\u2014come up to me and say: \u201cMy father\u2026\u201d or \u201cMy uncle\u2026\u201d or \u201cThis man in my life abused me. I think he may be abusing other people.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay, we are so afraid that forgiveness just takes away all responsibility and all accountability\u2014that it covers these sins and these crimes\u2014and it does not. There still may be matters of the law to be addressed. It may be that someone needs to pick up the phone and call Child Protective Services because, maybe, your father is hurting someone else. We are called to love the offender \/ love our enemy, but we are also called to love our neighbor. If our neighbor is being hurt in some way, then we absolutely need to try to protect that neighbor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Divine forgiveness does not erase consequences. It\u2019s like when\u2014God absolves us of guilt\u2014but a young boy, who is promiscuous outside of marriage, and his girlfriend gets pregnant \/ and he says, \u201cGod, I\u2019m sorry,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014there\u2019s still a baby, even after you\u2019ve said, \u201cI\u2019m sorry.\u201d The consequences don\u2019t go away when we forgive somebody else. But there is a recognition that we\u2019re not going to continue to hold this sword of judgment against you\u2014in our hands. We\u2019re going to let go of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, often, when we\u2019ve talked about this at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaways, we talk about the expression that we use when we say, \u201cLet\u2019s bury the hatchet.\u201d Why do we have a hatchet in our hand in the first place?\u2014right?\u2014we want to hurt somebody. Burying the hatchet is really giving up the right to punish somebody else for what they did in our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Right. But the reason that we can do that\u2014the reason that we can do that fairly\u2014is because we\u2019re going to take them off our hook and we\u2019re going to put them on God\u2019s hook.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Because <em>He<\/em> is the only rightful judge. We find ourselves\u2014and I\u2019ve done this <em>so many times<\/em>\u2014when we are offended, we instantly go into cop mode \/ arresting officer mode. We pull out our mental handcuffs, and we slap them on that person, and we haul them up in front of the jury. The jury, by the way, is us. Then we haul them in front of the judge, and the judge is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u2014us. And then we call the prison guard. The prison guard takes them to prison, and the prison guard is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Us; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u2014us; right?\u2014right. We put ourselves in this role that we were <em>not <\/em>intended to play, and it\u2019s <em>exhausting<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s exhausting!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And it is why, in Romans, Chapter 12, Paul says, \u201cIf possible, as far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.\u201d Right there, in the same passage, he says: \u201c\u2019Vengeance is Mine. I will repay,\u2019 says the Lord.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt really is an understanding of saying: \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to step back from a role I don\u2019t belong in. I\u2019m going to let God be the executor of justice, as it is needed; but I\u2019m going to be an agent of forgiveness and mercy<em>.\u201d<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Back to the illustration of being the judge, jury\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u2014prison guard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014prison guard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014prison guard, and locking them up\u2014a number of years ago, I wrote a book that\u2019s been repackaged and re-released here recently, called <em>The Forgotten Commandment<\/em>. It\u2019s about honoring your parents, and it\u2019s about forgiveness. It\u2019s what you\u2019re talking about here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne woman, who read that book, said: \u201cI went to the prison to let my mother out of prison. In the process of forgiving her and honoring her, I found out the one who was imprisoned was me, not my mom.\u201d By honoring \/ by moving toward honor, we can actually experience the freedom to be able to love, as you\u2019re talking about\u2014to be able to go forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think there\u2019s something we skipped over here that I <em>know<\/em> you believe and feel strongly about\u2014and that\u2019s the <em>process <\/em>of forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Walk our listeners through\u2014what is the process of forgiveness?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to describe the process that I followed and that many people have followed. It\u2019s important for people to recognize\u2014there is a lot of individual variation that happens here\u2014but, for me, I think the very place to start is sometimes the place we want to run away from\u2014and that is confess. Confess what happened\u2014be honest, be real, be truthful. Name the things that happened\u2014what happened to you, as a child \/ what happened to you in your marriage\u2014whatever this deep hurt is\u2014<em>face it<\/em>. That absolutely has to come first. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe stop, and we take a look at, and we name these things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are times, Dennis, when sometimes those traumas are so great that we should not do that alone. We ought to do that sometimes\u2014maybe with a counselor, with a therapist, with a best friend, with a pastor. Sometimes, we need a support network around us, even for that first stage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I couldn\u2019t agree more. I\u2019ve had the response to my book, over the years, where people have said, \u201cI read your book and\u2026\u201d One woman said: \u201cI threw it across the room and it landed kind of like a teepee. It stayed there,\u201d she said, \u201cfor the better part of a week. I\u2019d go by it and look disgustingly at the book because of what it was calling me to do.\u201d She was angry\u2014didn\u2019t want to go through it because of the hurt you\u2019re talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe finally picked it up again; but it still took her\u2014I think, as I recall, over a year \/ maybe two\u2014to move through the process of ultimately giving up her right to punish her mom and her dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. I\u2019ve had people say the same think about my book as well. They <em>know<\/em> they need the book. They get the book, and then it sits there because there\u2019s all this fear. There\u2019s all this fear to open it because they know they\u2019re called to forgive, and they still don\u2019t want to forgive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to tell people that I think all of us are like Jonah, running away. God says to Jonah: \u201cGo to the Ninevites with this message. Go to your enemies with this message to forgive.\u201d Jonah does not want to do it\u2014and that\u2019s all of us! <em>We don\u2019t want to do it<\/em>. So, I want to say to people\u2014for Dennis\u2019 book and for my book\u2014we\u2019re with you. We understand that completely. Trust us, though. Trust and just open the first page. Open the first page and take that first step of confession.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s easier to punish somebody than to forgive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It is; but, you know, let\u2019s not skip over that stage, though, because there\u2019s a lot of anger, at that stage. We need to be angry at what was wrong. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe will not move toward the right until we acknowledge what is wrong. I look back at the Old Testament, and I look at God\u2019s anger against wrong. God was angry when His people did horrible, destructive things. He was angry when people were hurt and destroyed. So, our anger is okay. It\u2019s not wrong to be angry over sin. What is wrong is when we stay there \/ when we remain trapped in our anger and we refuse to go any further.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when you entered into this process\u2014and came to this first step of needing to confess, and name, and go back through and catalog, and say, \u201cHe did this, and he did this, and I remember this,\u201d\u2014did you do this on your own? Did you get some help to do it? What was it like for you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I did do it on my own. Honestly, I had been thinking for many years \/ I had been cataloging for many years. So, it wasn\u2019t hard or traumatic for me to do this. But some people, in response to their past\u2014they just have this huge wall up\u2014so breaking through that wall\u2014they need some help to do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you, late at night, write out papers or did you just kind of, in your own mind\u2014I\u2019m just wondering, for somebody, who is saying, \u201cHow do I do this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u00a0\u201cHow do I do this?\u201d I did write it out\u2014I did write it out. I\u2019m a writer\u2014so that\u2019s the first thing that I do\u2014is I wrote. I worked on this essay. I think the essay started off something like, \u201cConfessing the sins of my father,\u201d or something like that; but I wrote it down. I think it\u2019s helpful to have some sort of concrete way to do this so it\u2019s not just in your head. Get it outside your head\u2014down on paper\u2014or whatever form you want to use\u2014but make it concrete.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t want to sound too pious or too spiritual here in making this observation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou didn\u2019t really do it alone\u2014there was the Comforter \/ there was the One who guides us into truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There is the Holy Spirit who convicts us of where we\u2019re wrong and where we\u2019ve had a wrong attitude. I\u2019ve watched too many people go through this process. They really aren\u2019t alone\u2014God was there when wrong was done. He didn\u2019t stop being God, and He didn\u2019t stop loving you. I do know that, despite what happened, God wants to use it in our lives to ultimately move us to loving like He loves\u2014and to replacing the hurt and the hate with God\u2019s love for another person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And the step of forgiving another person is really the first step in a process. We want to continue unpacking that process this week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me first let our listeners know how they can get a copy of the book that Leslie has written\u2014that talks about the process you went through in forgiving your father. It\u2019s a book called <em>Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers: Finding Freedom from Hurt and Hate<\/em>. We have copies of it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d You\u2019ll find information about Leslie\u2019s book available, online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order from us at that website; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY; 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis past Saturday, we were in Washington, DC, for our <em>I Still Do<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup>one-day marriage event\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t--thousands of couples joining us, live, in Washington, DC, and tens of thousands of couples joining us, all around the country and around the world, in more than 200 churches, where the event was being hosted as a simulcast video event. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was exciting to hear the reports back from couples who said this event had a profound impact in their marriage relationship. A lot of couples were coming, I think, for a marriage tune-up\u2014just for some preventive maintenance on their marriage\u2014but there were couples who were coming with some deep hurt \/ the kind of hurt we\u2019ve been talking about today. We saw God use the day in a significant way in the lives of many of those couples, and it was exciting to see.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mention that because I want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to the folks who help make events like that possible\u2014who help make this radio program possible; the resources we\u2019re creating, here at FamilyLife; the website that we\u2019ve got, FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014all of that\u2019s possible only because folks, like you, make it possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are listener-supported. Your financial support is what keeps <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>viable, and we are so grateful for your partnership with us. In fact, if you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you one of Barbara Rainey\u2019s new resources. She\u2019s been working on a line of resources called Ever Thine Home<em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em>. One of her new resources is a chalkboard that you can hang in your kitchen or in your den \/ somewhere in your home. It\u2019s in the shape of a house. It says: \u201cIn this home we give thanks for\u201d and there\u2019s a place for you to write, in chalk, whatever you\u2019d like to write.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a great teaching tool for the kids. It\u2019s also a nice home decoration. It\u2019s our gift to you when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the link in the upper right-hand corner that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d and make an online donation. You can see the chalkboard there when you do that. Or you can call and make a donation over the phone. Request the chalkboard when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr you can request the chalkboard when you mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tP O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. Our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue working through the process of forgiving another person. We\u2019ll work through the process that Leslie Fields went through as she forgave her father. I hope you can join us back for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with Mark Ramey. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.78M"],"filesize_raw":["23886428"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303221.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303221.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Leyland Fields talks about forgiving her father after years and years of estrangement. Leslie shares what God taught her about forgiving those who love us least.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-10-07.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Author, Leslie Fields, says there is a cost to forgiving another person; but the cost of not forgiving is ultimately a much greater cost.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>What we\u2019re doing is\u2014we\u2019re feeding our own bitterness, we\u2019re feeding our own hurt, we are feeding our own hate. We are cutting ourselves off\u2014not only from <em>that <\/em>person \/ that offender\u2014but we\u2019re cutting ourselves off from lots of other people, as well, because that bitterness leaches out into all kinds of other relationships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, October 7<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. How do you work through the emotions\u2014the pain and the bitterness\u2014you may feel toward another person and get to a place of forgiveness? We\u2019re going to talk about that today. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I think\u2014and we\u2019ve talked about this this week. I think all of us grew up in whatever family we grew up in, thinking the family we grew up in was normal. Normal is defined as what you experience when you\u2019re growing up. I guess it\u2019s not until later that you meet other folks and go: \u201cOh wait. My normal and your normal were different normals<em>\u201d;<\/em> you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s kind of what happens when we get married. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s true; that\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>[Laughing] You are introduced to a new normal, and then you have to establish your own normal. We have a guest with us who knows a little bit about what you just said. Leslie Leyland Fields joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Leslie, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Thank you. Thanks for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Leslie is from near Kodiak, Alaska. I say near because she lives\u2014not all year\u2014but for a good part of the summer on an island called Harvester Island. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow big is the island you live on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It\u2019s a mile long and half-a-mile wide. We are the only inhabitants on the island\u2014that\u2019s the coolest part of all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you get the idea Dennis is a little jealous? [Laughter] I mean, you\u2019ve been here enough. Do you get the\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>--the sense that Dennis kind of wishes he\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I am an adventurer too\u2014I love the adventure. There are only two trees on the island\u2014that\u2019s what doesn\u2019t move me to want to live on Harvester Island. [Laughter] I\u2019d like to be tucked away in a little cove, surrounded by a forest. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there is something in your blood\u2014every time you talk about Alaska, I just see there\u2019s something like: \u201cI wish we could do<em> FamilyLife Today <\/em>from Juneau<em>\u201d<\/em>; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There\u2019s a guy I\u2019d like to interview up there. Maybe we\u2019ll get a chance to take you up there, Bob, and let you experience it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLeslie has co-authored a book with Dr. Jill Hubbard. The book is called <em>Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers<\/em>. Leslie has written seven other books besides this one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s really the story of how you, Leslie, grew in your ability to ultimately forgive your father and mother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In your growing-up experience, you grew up in a desperately poor family, with a father who was emotionally absent \/ often physically absent, who didn\u2019t really have any regard for you, as a child. You left home for college. I would have to imagine\u2014left home, thinking\u2014\u201cSee you all later.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No thought that you\u2019d want even to come back for Christmas, maybe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No; no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You were charting a new course\u2014and just glad to get out of the life that you had grown up with\u2014when you left, as a young adult.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Oh, absolutely. I had no idea what the future held; but I knew that, wherever I was going to be, it was going to be far away.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You were one of six. You all grew up \/ went your own way. I guess, not long after you all left home, your mother and father divorced.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes, just a few years after I went\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Where did your father go? What did he do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>He went down to Florida. He had always had the dream of living on a sailboat and sailing around the world. He actually had just a little bit of money\u2014he bought a very small, old sailboat. He lived on that sailboat for about ten years, I think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow. When you got news that your mom and dad were divorcing, did that have any emotional impact in your life at all?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes, it did. I was angry because I thought, \u201cWhy didn\u2019t that happen 20 years ago?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, really?! Why did you feel that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It would have made life a lot calmer for everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So your thought was not sadness that your mom and dad were not going to be husband and wife or mom and dad to you anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was just the thought that: \u201cLife would have been better for all of us if this had happened earlier.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. I actually felt a great sense of relief for them because it was so difficult for them to live together. I knew that this was probably better for both of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you stay in touch with your dad following the divorce?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No. We wrote <em>occasionally.<\/em> There was an <em>occasional <\/em>letter, but there was very little contact between us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What prompted the letters?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I wrote. My father never initiated contact at all. I think it was a sense of: \u201cThis is my father. That\u2019s supposed to mean something, and now he\u2019s away on his own.\u201d I felt bad for him. I was sort of checking in\u2014like: \u201cWho are you, now, that you\u2019re not\u2026\u201d\u2014maybe the six kids \/ maybe it was partly our fault that he was the way he was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cMaybe now he\u2019s going to be a different person. Maybe he\u2019ll care more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you never called long distance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No, he didn\u2019t have a phone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You never sent pictures of grandkids\u2014or did you do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No, I didn\u2019t do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>He would not have any interest in my children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, at what point, did the Spirit of God begin to move you from hurt and hate to forgiveness? When did that start?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>That started probably about ten years ago, now\u2014with a phone call. It was my sister calling me to tell me that my father had had some sort of heart attack or something. In that moment, I realized that my father was going to die. He was in his 80s by then\u2014he was 84. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI realized: \u201cMy father is going to die, and no one is going to cry. No one is going to shed a tear.\u201d That almost made me cry, all on its own, because it just completely violates all of creation\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u2014that God would have created this man, brought him to life, brought him into our family, made him the father of six children\u2014that he would live 80-some years, and die, and nobody would shed a tear. I knew that was <em>wrong<\/em>\u2014I knew that was <em>so wrong<\/em>. In a moment, God turned my heart back to him. I realized, \u201cI\u2019ve got to do something about this.\u201d The next moment, I knew that forgiveness was what was required of me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, but you couldn\u2019t embrace it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Oh, no\u2014no. It is: \u201cHow do I do this?\u201d I knew something had to happen\u2014and already the turning had already begun\u2014that \u201cOkay, this cannot happen. Someone needs to be sad when my father dies, but where to go next?\u201d No, I didn\u2019t know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A lot of people\u2014when they\u2019re confronted with what you were confronted with\u2014the only thing they can do \/ the only thing they think they can do is: \u201cI\u2019ve got to protect myself. Protect myself means stay walled-off from that whole emotional experience. If I go back near that thing again, the pain is going to be insurmountable.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A lot of people feel like\u2014if they forgive, they\u2019re placing themselves back in the crucible to be hurt in even a deeper way than they were before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>You know what? That\u2019s true\u2014that to forgive means to rip off those scars \/ to turn back and to open yourself to be vulnerable again to feelings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I have to tell you\u2014the feelings are so much worse \/ the pain of not loving someone is so much worse than the pain of loving\u2014maybe that love isn\u2019t returned exactly the way you\u2019d want it to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You can say that now because you\u2019re on the other side of the fence.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But when you\u2019re on the side of the fence, where some of our listeners are right now\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Or where you had to be ten years ago, when you were first confronted with this idea of \u201cI think I need to forgive my father,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m sure there were little voices, going, \u201cOh no, no, no, no.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. Here\u2019s what I discovered, along the way\u2014that we think that the cost of forgiving is too high\u2014for all the things that you just mentioned. But what I would say to that is\u2014the cost of not forgiving is much higher because, when we continue to wall ourselves off, and protect ourselves, and protect\u2014what we\u2019re doing is\u2014we\u2019re feeding our own bitterness;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\twe\u2019re feeding our own hurt; we\u2019re feeding our own hate. We are cutting ourselves off\u2014not only from <em>that <\/em>person \/ that offender\u2014but we\u2019re cutting ourselves off from lots of other people, as well, because that bitterness leaches out into all kinds of other relationships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You believe the reason some people don\u2019t forgive is because they\u2019re afraid. They\u2019re afraid that if they forgive it\u2019s going to erase accountability for all the ways they\u2019ve hurt us. Comment on that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. This is a really important point. I\u2019ve had people ask me\u2014come up to me and say: \u201cMy father\u2026\u201d or \u201cMy uncle\u2026\u201d or \u201cThis man in my life abused me. I think he may be abusing other people.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay, we are so afraid that forgiveness just takes away all responsibility and all accountability\u2014that it covers these sins and these crimes\u2014and it does not. There still may be matters of the law to be addressed. It may be that someone needs to pick up the phone and call Child Protective Services because, maybe, your father is hurting someone else. We are called to love the offender \/ love our enemy, but we are also called to love our neighbor. If our neighbor is being hurt in some way, then we absolutely need to try to protect that neighbor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Divine forgiveness does not erase consequences. It\u2019s like when\u2014God absolves us of guilt\u2014but a young boy, who is promiscuous outside of marriage, and his girlfriend gets pregnant \/ and he says, \u201cGod, I\u2019m sorry,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014there\u2019s still a baby, even after you\u2019ve said, \u201cI\u2019m sorry.\u201d The consequences don\u2019t go away when we forgive somebody else. But there is a recognition that we\u2019re not going to continue to hold this sword of judgment against you\u2014in our hands. We\u2019re going to let go of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, often, when we\u2019ve talked about this at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaways, we talk about the expression that we use when we say, \u201cLet\u2019s bury the hatchet.\u201d Why do we have a hatchet in our hand in the first place?\u2014right?\u2014we want to hurt somebody. Burying the hatchet is really giving up the right to punish somebody else for what they did in our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Right. But the reason that we can do that\u2014the reason that we can do that fairly\u2014is because we\u2019re going to take them off our hook and we\u2019re going to put them on God\u2019s hook.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Because <em>He<\/em> is the only rightful judge. We find ourselves\u2014and I\u2019ve done this <em>so many times<\/em>\u2014when we are offended, we instantly go into cop mode \/ arresting officer mode. We pull out our mental handcuffs, and we slap them on that person, and we haul them up in front of the jury. The jury, by the way, is us. Then we haul them in front of the judge, and the judge is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u2014us. And then we call the prison guard. The prison guard takes them to prison, and the prison guard is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Us; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u2014us; right?\u2014right. We put ourselves in this role that we were <em>not <\/em>intended to play, and it\u2019s <em>exhausting<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s exhausting!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And it is why, in Romans, Chapter 12, Paul says, \u201cIf possible, as far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.\u201d Right there, in the same passage, he says: \u201c\u2019Vengeance is Mine. I will repay,\u2019 says the Lord.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt really is an understanding of saying: \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to step back from a role I don\u2019t belong in. I\u2019m going to let God be the executor of justice, as it is needed; but I\u2019m going to be an agent of forgiveness and mercy<em>.\u201d<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Back to the illustration of being the judge, jury\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u2014prison guard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014prison guard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014prison guard, and locking them up\u2014a number of years ago, I wrote a book that\u2019s been repackaged and re-released here recently, called <em>The Forgotten Commandment<\/em>. It\u2019s about honoring your parents, and it\u2019s about forgiveness. It\u2019s what you\u2019re talking about here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne woman, who read that book, said: \u201cI went to the prison to let my mother out of prison. In the process of forgiving her and honoring her, I found out the one who was imprisoned was me, not my mom.\u201d By honoring \/ by moving toward honor, we can actually experience the freedom to be able to love, as you\u2019re talking about\u2014to be able to go forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think there\u2019s something we skipped over here that I <em>know<\/em> you believe and feel strongly about\u2014and that\u2019s the <em>process <\/em>of forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Walk our listeners through\u2014what is the process of forgiveness?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to describe the process that I followed and that many people have followed. It\u2019s important for people to recognize\u2014there is a lot of individual variation that happens here\u2014but, for me, I think the very place to start is sometimes the place we want to run away from\u2014and that is confess. Confess what happened\u2014be honest, be real, be truthful. Name the things that happened\u2014what happened to you, as a child \/ what happened to you in your marriage\u2014whatever this deep hurt is\u2014<em>face it<\/em>. That absolutely has to come first. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe stop, and we take a look at, and we name these things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are times, Dennis, when sometimes those traumas are so great that we should not do that alone. We ought to do that sometimes\u2014maybe with a counselor, with a therapist, with a best friend, with a pastor. Sometimes, we need a support network around us, even for that first stage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I couldn\u2019t agree more. I\u2019ve had the response to my book, over the years, where people have said, \u201cI read your book and\u2026\u201d One woman said: \u201cI threw it across the room and it landed kind of like a teepee. It stayed there,\u201d she said, \u201cfor the better part of a week. I\u2019d go by it and look disgustingly at the book because of what it was calling me to do.\u201d She was angry\u2014didn\u2019t want to go through it because of the hurt you\u2019re talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe finally picked it up again; but it still took her\u2014I think, as I recall, over a year \/ maybe two\u2014to move through the process of ultimately giving up her right to punish her mom and her dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes. I\u2019ve had people say the same think about my book as well. They <em>know<\/em> they need the book. They get the book, and then it sits there because there\u2019s all this fear. There\u2019s all this fear to open it because they know they\u2019re called to forgive, and they still don\u2019t want to forgive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to tell people that I think all of us are like Jonah, running away. God says to Jonah: \u201cGo to the Ninevites with this message. Go to your enemies with this message to forgive.\u201d Jonah does not want to do it\u2014and that\u2019s all of us! <em>We don\u2019t want to do it<\/em>. So, I want to say to people\u2014for Dennis\u2019 book and for my book\u2014we\u2019re with you. We understand that completely. Trust us, though. Trust and just open the first page. Open the first page and take that first step of confession.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s easier to punish somebody than to forgive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It is; but, you know, let\u2019s not skip over that stage, though, because there\u2019s a lot of anger, at that stage. We need to be angry at what was wrong. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe will not move toward the right until we acknowledge what is wrong. I look back at the Old Testament, and I look at God\u2019s anger against wrong. God was angry when His people did horrible, destructive things. He was angry when people were hurt and destroyed. So, our anger is okay. It\u2019s not wrong to be angry over sin. What is wrong is when we stay there \/ when we remain trapped in our anger and we refuse to go any further.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when you entered into this process\u2014and came to this first step of needing to confess, and name, and go back through and catalog, and say, \u201cHe did this, and he did this, and I remember this,\u201d\u2014did you do this on your own? Did you get some help to do it? What was it like for you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I did do it on my own. Honestly, I had been thinking for many years \/ I had been cataloging for many years. So, it wasn\u2019t hard or traumatic for me to do this. But some people, in response to their past\u2014they just have this huge wall up\u2014so breaking through that wall\u2014they need some help to do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you, late at night, write out papers or did you just kind of, in your own mind\u2014I\u2019m just wondering, for somebody, who is saying, \u201cHow do I do this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>\u00a0\u201cHow do I do this?\u201d I did write it out\u2014I did write it out. I\u2019m a writer\u2014so that\u2019s the first thing that I do\u2014is I wrote. I worked on this essay. I think the essay started off something like, \u201cConfessing the sins of my father,\u201d or something like that; but I wrote it down. I think it\u2019s helpful to have some sort of concrete way to do this so it\u2019s not just in your head. Get it outside your head\u2014down on paper\u2014or whatever form you want to use\u2014but make it concrete.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t want to sound too pious or too spiritual here in making this observation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou didn\u2019t really do it alone\u2014there was the Comforter \/ there was the One who guides us into truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There is the Holy Spirit who convicts us of where we\u2019re wrong and where we\u2019ve had a wrong attitude. I\u2019ve watched too many people go through this process. They really aren\u2019t alone\u2014God was there when wrong was done. He didn\u2019t stop being God, and He didn\u2019t stop loving you. I do know that, despite what happened, God wants to use it in our lives to ultimately move us to loving like He loves\u2014and to replacing the hurt and the hate with God\u2019s love for another person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And the step of forgiving another person is really the first step in a process. We want to continue unpacking that process this week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me first let our listeners know how they can get a copy of the book that Leslie has written\u2014that talks about the process you went through in forgiving your father. It\u2019s a book called <em>Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers: Finding Freedom from Hurt and Hate<\/em>. We have copies of it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d You\u2019ll find information about Leslie\u2019s book available, online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order from us at that website; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY; 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis past Saturday, we were in Washington, DC, for our <em>I Still Do<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup>one-day marriage event\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t--thousands of couples joining us, live, in Washington, DC, and tens of thousands of couples joining us, all around the country and around the world, in more than 200 churches, where the event was being hosted as a simulcast video event. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was exciting to hear the reports back from couples who said this event had a profound impact in their marriage relationship. A lot of couples were coming, I think, for a marriage tune-up\u2014just for some preventive maintenance on their marriage\u2014but there were couples who were coming with some deep hurt \/ the kind of hurt we\u2019ve been talking about today. We saw God use the day in a significant way in the lives of many of those couples, and it was exciting to see.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mention that because I want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to the folks who help make events like that possible\u2014who help make this radio program possible; the resources we\u2019re creating, here at FamilyLife; the website that we\u2019ve got, FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014all of that\u2019s possible only because folks, like you, make it possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are listener-supported. Your financial support is what keeps <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>viable, and we are so grateful for your partnership with us. In fact, if you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you one of Barbara Rainey\u2019s new resources. She\u2019s been working on a line of resources called Ever Thine Home<em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em>. One of her new resources is a chalkboard that you can hang in your kitchen or in your den \/ somewhere in your home. It\u2019s in the shape of a house. It says: \u201cIn this home we give thanks for\u201d and there\u2019s a place for you to write, in chalk, whatever you\u2019d like to write.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a great teaching tool for the kids. It\u2019s also a nice home decoration. It\u2019s our gift to you when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the link in the upper right-hand corner that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d and make an online donation. You can see the chalkboard there when you do that. Or you can call and make a donation over the phone. Request the chalkboard when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr you can request the chalkboard when you mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tP O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. Our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue working through the process of forgiving another person. We\u2019ll work through the process that Leslie Fields went through as she forgave her father. I hope you can join us back for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with Mark Ramey. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. 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