{"id":303173,"date":"2014-08-26T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-08-26T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/confronting-the-realities-of-adoption\/"},"modified":"2014-08-26T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-08-26T15:00:00","slug":"confronting-the-realities-of-adoption","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/confronting-the-realities-of-adoption\/","title":{"rendered":"Confronting the Realities of Adoption"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jon and Shelly Bergeron talk frankly about the realities of adoption and ask prospective parents to consider that adoption is not without difficult financial, emotional and spiritual costs.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-08-26.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"25.07M","filesize_raw":"26282890","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2818],"tags":[4927,5406,5407,5300,5405],"podcast_series":[8034],"cwp_profile":[9353],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303173","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-adoption-and-orphans","tag-challenges","tag-deaf-children","tag-deafness","tag-fostering","tag-strained-relationships","podcast_series-called-to-adopt","cwp_profile-jon-and-shelly-bergeron","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303173\/confronting-the-realities-of-adoption","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303173\/confronting-the-realities-of-adoption","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"4fs1FAMzsk\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/confronting-the-realities-of-adoption\/\">Confronting the Realities of Adoption<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/confronting-the-realities-of-adoption\/embed\/#?secret=4fs1FAMzsk\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Confronting the Realities of Adoption&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"4fs1FAMzsk\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-08-26.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-08-26.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jon and Shelly Bergeron are parents who have adopted children with significant emotional and physical needs. So, when they are talking to potential adoptive parents, do they tell the whole truth, even if it may scare them?\u00a0 Here\u2019s Shelly Bergeron. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Shelly: <\/strong>From our experience, it\u2019s a lot better to tell people what could happen. A lot of people don\u2019t want to hear it; but later on, if they do adopt, hopefully, they\u2019ll remember that it\u2019s there in the back of their head: \u201cOh, yes. The Bergerons said something about that,\u201d and not be so surprised. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the biggest things\u2014and probably the hardest thing for people to hear\u2014is that most of the kids\u2014that are older that have come from abandonment\u2014have been sexually abused. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, August 26<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We think adoption is a beautiful and glorious thing, here at FamilyLife. It\u2019s also something you need to go into with your eyes wide open. We\u2019re going to talk about that today. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Do you think you and Barbara went into adoption with a better-than-average understanding of some of the issues that might be ahead for you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know where you would have found the average back then\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because there was not a lot of training\u2014weren\u2019t many books, at all, that had been written. Frankly, I think, for the most part, anybody, who adopted, was pretty na\u00efve\u2014basically, walked off into the unknown, really, in terms of what they were going to face with a child that they were going to select to be their own, and to love, and to care for. We didn\u2019t know what we were doing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you look back\u2014and you say, \u201cThe journey was hard,\u201d but you\u2019d do it again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A thousand times out of a thousand\u2014no doubt about it. It was a challenge\u2014it really was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We\u2019ve got a couple with us who know a little bit about that challenge as well\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014both professionally and personally. Shelly and Jon Bergeron join us on the broadcast. Shelly, Jon, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Thanks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Shelly and Jon work for Hope for Orphans<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. They started out as reluctant foster care parents, but they became adoptive parents. Jon attended Taylor University up in Upland, Indiana. He got his PhD in clinical psychology at the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas\u2014then, a one-year postdoctoral training in child and adolescent psychology in College Station, Texas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re a child psychologist. You\u2019ve done a lot of work\u2014more than a decade\u2014in this area. Let\u2019s go back to what Bob asked me. What do you think is really the biggest mistake, in terms of being na\u00efve, that adoptive parents make as they engage this process of adoption and calling a child their own?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>As I work with families, I would say the place that I see a lack of preparedness is just an understanding of the depth of the kind of damage that can be done\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014especially as the trends in adoption move to older children and children with special needs. The longer a child is in an institution, or in a system like our foster care system, that\u2019s not perfect, the more damage that gets done and the more healing that needs to take place. I think most of those, who are adopting, often come from a stable home in middle class society\u2014not perfect\u2014but far different from where their children come from. There is a <em>lot <\/em>of education that needs to happen about what those early experiences were and how they\u2019ve impacted the development of their child. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Shelly, you\u2019ve done this personally. You\u2019ve adopted two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What was your biggest assumption that you made that was\u2014you look back and you go: \u201cWow!\u00a0 I was clueless.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>I think, with our first son\u2014we got him at four. I was\u2014even though I had a psychologist for a husband, and we had read all the books that we could get our hands on about fostering and adoption, I still thought, \u201cI just need to give him some love, and take care of him, and give him a good home; and he\u2019ll be good to go.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tActually, he\u2019s a really easy-going kid; and that kind of has occurred for him\u2014but in general\u2014with his sister, that we fostered, and then with our son, now\u2014this side of heaven, just love isn\u2019t enough. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, some of our listeners are going: \u201cWhoa!\u00a0 Whoa!\u00a0 Whoa! Whoa!\u00a0 Whoa!\u00a0 We\u2019ve always been taught love is enough.\u201d\u00a0 What do you mean \u201cLove isn\u2019t enough?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Well, love isn\u2019t going to heal all of those past traumas and hurts that they\u2019ve had throughout their lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You mean they are going to carry them for a lifetime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Shelly: <\/strong>They will. They will. Our love is going to be as much as we can give them, and it\u2019s going to have to be enough for what they can have in the family; but it\u2019s not enough to heal them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think the key phrase I want our listeners to hear\u2014you\u2019re talking about complete healing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Complete healing, this side of heaven\u2014which is the case for all of us\u2014but especially for these kids from hurt backgrounds\u2014is that there will not be complete healing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur sons will never fully be healed of the pain and hurt that occurred because of their abandonment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, a part of what you guys have both got to hang onto is the reality that, with both of your boys today, they are in a much better place than they ever would have been if you hadn\u2019t intervened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Correct. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But they\u2019re still a long way from where you wish they were; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if you were sitting down today with a young couple, who were thinking: \u201cWe\u2019re thinking about adopting. We\u2019ve been married five years\u2014don\u2019t have any kids. Think maybe God\u2019s calling us to adoption. God\u2019s always had it on my heart that maybe we should be adoptive parents. We\u2019d love to know what kind of advice you\u2019d give us.\u201d\u00a0 How would that conversation go, Jon?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jon: <\/strong>Well, interestingly, we have a lot of those conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>We love that!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes, we really enjoy that. We see that really as the ministry that God\u2019s called us into, apart from Hope for Orphans\u2014you know, and even before that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs soon as the word got out that: \u201cOh, there\u2019s this adoptive couple and foster family\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cAnd he\u2019s a clinical psychologist,\u201d\u2014and yes; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes, people ask those questions. I love it when they do because it tells me they are thinking, \u201cI need to be prepared.\u201d\u00a0 I think, as Dennis was saying, we are understanding, more and more, that you need preparation\u2014that there is more to do than read a paper or to just \u201cHow do I transfer what I\u2019ve done with my biological kids over to adoptive \/ foster kids?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, people get that; and they ask those questions. We have some really interesting interactions with folks, when they say, \u201cHey, what do we need to know?\u201d\u00a0 I may let Shelly take over from here because I think she\u2019s really good at doing something that I think, over time, we\u2019ve done more and more of\u2014and that is: \u201cHey, here is the hard truth. We\u2019re going to give you that up-front.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Shelly: <\/strong>I\u2019ve learned to become a little blunt with people. I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve lost friends or not from that\u2014but I feel like, from our experience, it\u2019s a lot better to tell people what could happen. A lot of people don\u2019t want to hear it; but later on, if they do adopt, hopefully, they\u2019ll remember that it\u2019s there, in the back of their head: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cOh, yes, the Bergerons said something about that,\u201d\u2014and not be so surprised. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the biggest things\u2014and probably the hardest thing for people to hear\u2014is that most of these kids\u2014that are older that have come from abandonment\u2014 have been sexually abused\u2014and to be prepared\u2014if you are going to take them in and have younger children in your home\u2014that you need to do a lot to protect everyone in the home.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes, so, what this looks like is\u2014one evening, we\u2019re sitting down with a couple in our church, over sushi. They\u2019re asking, \u201cWhat is it we need to get ready for?\u201d\u00a0 And there was a child that they had been connected with. So, they were learning a little bit about her. That\u2019s what Shelly said\u2014she said, \u201cWell, you need to be prepared that she\u2019s likely been sexually abused.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you could see\u2014especially, the mom\u2019s eyes\u2014but both of them kind of get really wide and get really quiet. Then, we lead into, \u201cbut that\u2019s not the end of the world,\u201d and, \u201cIt doesn\u2019t mean this child is going to be a monster or anything like that, but here\u2019s what you need to do to help them heal and to protect them when they come into your home.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, Jon, if that\u2019s a part of the past for a child, what does that mean in terms of what you\u2019re bringing into the family dynamic?\u2014that child may be acting out, sexually, in the home?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes. That\u2019s not uncommon\u2014that one of the ways that kids try to make sense of what has happened to them\u2014this exposure to sexuality at much too young of an age\u2014is they begin to act it out. Unfortunately, this, then, causes damage to be done to other children and to the family, if people aren\u2019t walking into it, with their eyes wide open. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber one, trying to prevent it; and number two, looking for the early evidence of it and not looking away because there is a strong temptation to say: \u201cOh, no, no. That didn\u2019t happen to my child.\u201d\u00a0 We\u2019ve heard that over and over\u2014and almost, without exception, within a couple of years, those same people come back to us and say, \u201cThey shared with me what happened in the orphanage.\u201d\u00a0 Then, we hear these horrific stories of abuse from even the best orphanages, at least from the outside. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, Shelly, if you\u2019ve got three biological kids at home\u2014and you\u2019re bringing home a five-year-old, who has been sexually abused\u2014at some level, your biological kids are now at risk; aren\u2019t they?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s correct. What we recommend to people is\u2014we say: \u201cDon\u2019t leave them alone. Make sure that your children are always being watched, playing in a central location. Don\u2019t share bedrooms.\u201d\u00a0 We have recommended, highly\u2014to put alarms on the door so you can hear when the kids are coming and going. You can tell them all it\u2019s for their own safety. It\u2019s to keep everyone in the family safe because you don\u2019t want to hurt that child more by allowing them to continue to do that because that will hurt them more as well as it could hurt other children in the family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes, but I think that it is important to say\u2014is\u2014a lot of times, people react to those types of recommendations with some level of: \u201cThat seems really mean. You\u2019re making that child out to be the bad guy,\u201d\u2014but you\u2019re not. You\u2019re protecting that child. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If we don\u2019t protect these kids from what they might do to themselves, by acting out, we\u2019re contributing, I believe, to more damage because, each time they act out, there is more damage done to them, in addition to what\u2019s done to others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to talk about another issue that comes up with adoption. It\u2019s that of attachment issues. I know, as a parent of an adopted child, when I first heard about this, I, frankly, kind of dismissed it. I kind of said, \u201cI think research is just gone amok here, and it\u2019s just making too much of too little.\u201d\u00a0 But the older I\u2019ve become and the more I\u2019ve heard the stories\u2014I really do think there is something about this thing\u2014that a baby can hear his or her mother\u2019s voice while they are in the womb. So, when they are born and that voice doesn\u2019t match\u2014even the voice of a parent who adopts, at birth\u2014there is still something that takes place there\u2014that causes a loss of attachment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSpeak to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>That\u2019s something that we\u2019re just beginning to understand. I believe the intricacies of what God created in His design for a family\u2014that there is something that starts, like you said, before birth in this connection between the child and the mother and even the father, who talks and whose voice is heard while the child is <em>in utero<\/em>, that begins a process that makes the raising of a child far easier. God designed it that way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we know, anytime we move outside of God\u2019s design, things don\u2019t work out so well. As beautiful as adoption is, the whole reason adoption exists is because God\u2019s design has been horribly broken. A family, somewhere, has been destroyed; and the need for another family is there to step in. When that design of God has been destroyed or damaged in some way, it\u2019s going to have an impact. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believe science is just starting to understand how God designed this to be\u2014and how the neuro chemicals and everything work together to create this bonding between parent and child\u2014that is critical to their development. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to use an illustration that\u2019s extreme, but it\u2019s one that happened to you guys. Your son\u2014that you adopted three days short of the age of 14\u2014grew up in China and, basically, spent the first 13 years of his life in an orphanage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Barbara and I have been to orphanages in China. We\u2019ve been to those in Russia. There are all kinds of orphanages. You can really understand how, from an attachment basis, it gets overlooked. It\u2019s just humanly not possible, with so few workers caring for so many little children, who have to be left alone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen your son came to your family and had been in your family for, I think, two or three years, at that point\u2014you talked about going to China. He mentioned what his feelings were if you found his parents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Yes. It\u2019s a really tough thing for him to understand\u2014once he was in a family\u2014that that meant that someone had abandoned him. He asked Jon, \u201cIf we went back to China, and when we saw his birth parents, would Jon kill them?\u201d\u00a0 And another time, he would say something similar\u2014and five minutes later, would ask, \u201cBut I hope that they can come to my high school graduation.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are birth parents that we\u2019ll never be able to find. He\u2019ll never be able to know who they are. That is deeply engrained in him, and that has caused so much loss. It makes sense, then, why he has so much pain, and hurt, and struggles in his life because of all of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jon, unpack what is going on in his heart when he says things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>I think what we are seeing\u2014and it\u2019s painful to watch, as a parent, because you see just the depth of the pain that that caused in him\u2014that turns into anger and rage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, he wanted to kill these people that he felt were responsible for 14 years of abuse, and neglect, and horrific experiences. At first blush, you think: \u201cWow!\u00a0 Is this just some crazy violent kid?\u201d\u00a0 But it\u2019s not. It\u2019s probably a normative response\u2014I would say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He knows, instinctively, \u201cSomebody should have been taking care of me, and nobody was!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>And that is, I think, the source of the anger and rage that we see in a lot of these kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>How do you help a young man, who\u2014that\u2019s his reality?\u00a0 He was abandoned. He was left in this situation. He\u2019s processing all of this anger and all of this rage. What can you say to him to help him to get over the hump?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Well, we get over the hump; and then, we go back again. Then, we get over the hump and go back. We go over it again and again because 14 years is never going to be overcome, but we try a lot of different things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that we do is try to talk to him and pretend like we talk to him, as if he were a baby. We\u2019ve done this before. [Emotion in voice] I pretend I\u2019m holding him and signing to him, as if he were my baby, and what I would have done if he were my baby, and: \u201cThis is what should have been for you. This is what life should have been like. You should have had a mom, who came and kissed you when you fell down and got hurt instead of people laughing at you,\u201d and, \u201cWhen someone stepped on you, instead of having other people keep doing that, your mom should have come and protected you and taken care of you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe tell him what it <em>should<\/em> have been like and what God does for us. We tell him, also, that despite all of those 14 years of pain, this is still where God wanted him to be. This was still God\u2019s plan\u2014not the pain and the hurt\u2014but God\u2019s plan to have a family for him\u2014it was this family. Before time began, this was the family for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod has touched his life in a miraculous way, despite all of the pain and hurt that we\u2019ve gone through with him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe knows that instinctively. He told us, not long after we came home, that he said: \u201cIn China, they told me that Jesus was fake; but now, you\u2019re telling me He\u2019s real. I know that He\u2019s real.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ve said before: \u201cYou can be mad at God. He can handle it. It\u2019s okay if you\u2019re mad.\u201d\u00a0 He goes: \u201cI\u2019m not mad at God. He saved me. He brought me to this family. I\u2019m mad at Satan. It\u2019s his fault.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As you\u2019re describing this re-parenting that you are doing, you get emotional in talking about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s hard stuff!\u00a0 It\u2019s not the way it\u2019s supposed to be. I think that\u2019s what\u2019s painful. It\u2019s painful for me to see that this is the hurt that\u2019s a part of his life, always. It\u2019s always going to be there, and it shouldn\u2019t have had to be like this\u2014this little boy, who I can imagine\u2014I see little Chinese boys running around. I think of our son\u2014he shouldn\u2019t have had that. [Emotion in voice] He should have had a mom and a dad to take care of him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>If I can share something\u2014one of the things that I\u2019ve been amazed with, as a professional, is the wisdom and the heart that God puts into mothers. I can tell you\u2014probably most of the healing that has come about in our son has been because of what she\u2019s describing. God gives her an intuitive sense of what he needs to hear. She speaks to him in a way that he can understand it. We\u2019ve seen tremendous growth and change through, I believe, her obedience and following the Spirit in that way. <br><br>There is no rule book to parenting, especially these kids. It\u2019s very unexpected, but God leads and the Spirit guides. I\u2019ve just been really amazed at seeing her love our son the way he needs to be loved. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Respectfully, Jon, you answered that, as a psychologist. I want you to answer and make a comment, as a father, because there is a unique assignment to you, as well, to love in a very difficult situation\u2014that you see is wearing out your wife, at points. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes, as a father, it\u2019s challenging because I know I\u2019m called to love my wife and love my children. Sometimes, those things seem to be in conflict. Sometimes, it\u2019s a matter of: \u201cHow I do protect my wife\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jon: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cand take care of my child, at the same time?\u00a0 What does that look like?\u201d\u00a0 There are not any easy answers here, and there are a lot of families out there that know exactly what I\u2019m talking about. They need the Spirit of God leading them and guiding them. They also need the family of God to come around them, and support them, and help them through these difficult situations because you can\u2019t do this alone. I can tell you that, with all the training and experience I\u2019ve had as a professional, it\u2019s more than I can handle. It\u2019s more than we can handle. We needed people to love on us as we\u2019re trying to love these kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We asked you earlier what kind of advice you would give to that young na\u00efve couple\u2014that has a heart for this\u2014and you want to give them the reality of what they are getting into. You\u2019re going to be talking to a bunch of these folks in September, when you get together for the <em>Rooted<\/em> conference that Hope for Orphans is going to be hosting in Texas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tExplain for folks what this conference is all about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jon: <\/strong>It\u2019s a one-day event where they come. We\u2019re going to have, actually, a lot of different people\u2014folks like Paul David Tripp and Voddie Baucham are going to share, along with some teaching and training from myself, about how the parenting process itself, for these kids especially, I think, is the gospel lived out. <em>Rooted<\/em> is about understanding that the answers to the questions about \u201cHow do I deal with this?\u201d are rooted in the gospel\u2014in the Bible\u2019s description of how God loves us and parents us\u2014showing where science can inform that framework. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn addition to individual families, the other audience for this event is the church itself because the vast majority of these couples are going to be coming from churches. What I want them to understand is that God has created the church family to do the work of supporting and caring for other families when they are struggling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I see this as the center of the solutions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA lot of people want to throw out a lot of different professional solutions\u2014take them to this treatment facility or see this specialist\u2014but I really believe the real healing for the family and the child is going to come out of the support of the family that God put them in\u2014the church family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>I just think it\u2019s really going to be a great encouragement to families. I think that people coming will feel like, \u201cHere are some other people who are in the same boat as I am, and I\u2019m not alone.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. What you are really reflecting is that FamilyLife wants to be an encouragement in the adoption movement. There are a lot of folks who are listening to our broadcast, Bob, who need to get with it and get on the\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Need to get rooted; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, they need to get rooted\u2014[Laughter]\u2014and others who need to check into foster care. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you didn\u2019t hear the earlier broadcast, with Jon and Shelly, you need to hear about two reluctant foster care parents and how God ultimately redirected, for all practical purposes,\u00a0 your marriage, your family, and your vocation around a small decision that you fought all the way to the finish line\u2014about becoming foster care parents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just really proud of you two. I think you guys have modeled some tough love\u2014not in a story book situation\u2014but in some tough circumstances. I just appreciate your work with Hope for Orphans. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Thanks. It\u2019s been great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, and both of us hope that there will be a great turnout for the <em>Rooted<\/em> conference. It\u2019s coming up in September. Once again, if folks would like more information about that event and how they can be a part of it\u2014even from a distance\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d\u00a0 You\u2019ll find information about the <em>Rooted<\/em> conference there. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve also got additional information for parents who are thinking about adoption\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014who want to know more about what that process might look like for their family. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER\u201d; or call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, this is shout-out week. We\u2019re giving some shout-outs to folks who are celebrating anniversaries this week. I want to say, \u201cCongratulations!\u201d to Sam and Anna DeJong, who live in Marysville, Washington\u201456 years of marriage today. That deserves a\u2014I\u2019ll tell you what that deserves. That deserves a milkshake from AJ\u2019s Burgers, there in Marysville. So\u2014just a recommendation\u2014that\u2019s\u2014if it was my anniversary, milkshake would be what I\u2019d be looking for. The DeJongs are Legacy Partners, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We appreciate you guys for your faithful support of this ministry\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014grateful to have you as a part of the team. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I just want to mention to everybody else, who is listening, this is the last week of our fiscal year. We\u2019re trying to end this year in a good, solid healthy financial place. We could use your help. We have some friends, who have come along and offered that, this week, they will match every donation that is given in support of our fiscal yearend, on a dollar for dollar basis, up to a total of $100,000. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we have a great opportunity and a short time to make it happen. Would you consider, right now, going to FamilyLifeToday.com?\u2014click the link, in the upper right-hand corner, that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d and make an online donation to help support us, as we try to finish out the fiscal year here in the month of August. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You click the link that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d in the upper right-hand corner. Or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY, and you can make a donation over the phone. Or you can mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd our zip code is 72223. Join the DeJongs and be a part of what God is doing through the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. And again, we appreciate your support and are grateful for your partnership with us, here in this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTomorrow, we\u2019re going to get a chance to hear from Barbara Rainey as she shares a little bit about the adoption journey that is a part of Dennis and Barbara\u2019s story. So, I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.07M"],"filesize_raw":["26282890"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303173.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303173.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and Shelly Bergeron talk frankly about the realities of adoption and ask prospective parents to consider that adoption is not without difficult financial, emotional and spiritual costs.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-08-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jon and Shelly Bergeron are parents who have adopted children with significant emotional and physical needs. So, when they are talking to potential adoptive parents, do they tell the whole truth, even if it may scare them?\u00a0 Here\u2019s Shelly Bergeron. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Shelly: <\/strong>From our experience, it\u2019s a lot better to tell people what could happen. A lot of people don\u2019t want to hear it; but later on, if they do adopt, hopefully, they\u2019ll remember that it\u2019s there in the back of their head: \u201cOh, yes. The Bergerons said something about that,\u201d and not be so surprised. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the biggest things\u2014and probably the hardest thing for people to hear\u2014is that most of the kids\u2014that are older that have come from abandonment\u2014have been sexually abused. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, August 26<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We think adoption is a beautiful and glorious thing, here at FamilyLife. It\u2019s also something you need to go into with your eyes wide open. We\u2019re going to talk about that today. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Do you think you and Barbara went into adoption with a better-than-average understanding of some of the issues that might be ahead for you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know where you would have found the average back then\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because there was not a lot of training\u2014weren\u2019t many books, at all, that had been written. Frankly, I think, for the most part, anybody, who adopted, was pretty na\u00efve\u2014basically, walked off into the unknown, really, in terms of what they were going to face with a child that they were going to select to be their own, and to love, and to care for. We didn\u2019t know what we were doing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you look back\u2014and you say, \u201cThe journey was hard,\u201d but you\u2019d do it again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A thousand times out of a thousand\u2014no doubt about it. It was a challenge\u2014it really was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We\u2019ve got a couple with us who know a little bit about that challenge as well\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014both professionally and personally. Shelly and Jon Bergeron join us on the broadcast. Shelly, Jon, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Thanks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Shelly and Jon work for Hope for Orphans<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. They started out as reluctant foster care parents, but they became adoptive parents. Jon attended Taylor University up in Upland, Indiana. He got his PhD in clinical psychology at the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas\u2014then, a one-year postdoctoral training in child and adolescent psychology in College Station, Texas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re a child psychologist. You\u2019ve done a lot of work\u2014more than a decade\u2014in this area. Let\u2019s go back to what Bob asked me. What do you think is really the biggest mistake, in terms of being na\u00efve, that adoptive parents make as they engage this process of adoption and calling a child their own?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>As I work with families, I would say the place that I see a lack of preparedness is just an understanding of the depth of the kind of damage that can be done\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014especially as the trends in adoption move to older children and children with special needs. The longer a child is in an institution, or in a system like our foster care system, that\u2019s not perfect, the more damage that gets done and the more healing that needs to take place. I think most of those, who are adopting, often come from a stable home in middle class society\u2014not perfect\u2014but far different from where their children come from. There is a <em>lot <\/em>of education that needs to happen about what those early experiences were and how they\u2019ve impacted the development of their child. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Shelly, you\u2019ve done this personally. You\u2019ve adopted two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What was your biggest assumption that you made that was\u2014you look back and you go: \u201cWow!\u00a0 I was clueless.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>I think, with our first son\u2014we got him at four. I was\u2014even though I had a psychologist for a husband, and we had read all the books that we could get our hands on about fostering and adoption, I still thought, \u201cI just need to give him some love, and take care of him, and give him a good home; and he\u2019ll be good to go.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tActually, he\u2019s a really easy-going kid; and that kind of has occurred for him\u2014but in general\u2014with his sister, that we fostered, and then with our son, now\u2014this side of heaven, just love isn\u2019t enough. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, some of our listeners are going: \u201cWhoa!\u00a0 Whoa!\u00a0 Whoa! Whoa!\u00a0 Whoa!\u00a0 We\u2019ve always been taught love is enough.\u201d\u00a0 What do you mean \u201cLove isn\u2019t enough?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Well, love isn\u2019t going to heal all of those past traumas and hurts that they\u2019ve had throughout their lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You mean they are going to carry them for a lifetime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Shelly: <\/strong>They will. They will. Our love is going to be as much as we can give them, and it\u2019s going to have to be enough for what they can have in the family; but it\u2019s not enough to heal them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think the key phrase I want our listeners to hear\u2014you\u2019re talking about complete healing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Complete healing, this side of heaven\u2014which is the case for all of us\u2014but especially for these kids from hurt backgrounds\u2014is that there will not be complete healing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur sons will never fully be healed of the pain and hurt that occurred because of their abandonment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, a part of what you guys have both got to hang onto is the reality that, with both of your boys today, they are in a much better place than they ever would have been if you hadn\u2019t intervened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Correct. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But they\u2019re still a long way from where you wish they were; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if you were sitting down today with a young couple, who were thinking: \u201cWe\u2019re thinking about adopting. We\u2019ve been married five years\u2014don\u2019t have any kids. Think maybe God\u2019s calling us to adoption. God\u2019s always had it on my heart that maybe we should be adoptive parents. We\u2019d love to know what kind of advice you\u2019d give us.\u201d\u00a0 How would that conversation go, Jon?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jon: <\/strong>Well, interestingly, we have a lot of those conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>We love that!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes, we really enjoy that. We see that really as the ministry that God\u2019s called us into, apart from Hope for Orphans\u2014you know, and even before that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs soon as the word got out that: \u201cOh, there\u2019s this adoptive couple and foster family\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cAnd he\u2019s a clinical psychologist,\u201d\u2014and yes; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes, people ask those questions. I love it when they do because it tells me they are thinking, \u201cI need to be prepared.\u201d\u00a0 I think, as Dennis was saying, we are understanding, more and more, that you need preparation\u2014that there is more to do than read a paper or to just \u201cHow do I transfer what I\u2019ve done with my biological kids over to adoptive \/ foster kids?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, people get that; and they ask those questions. We have some really interesting interactions with folks, when they say, \u201cHey, what do we need to know?\u201d\u00a0 I may let Shelly take over from here because I think she\u2019s really good at doing something that I think, over time, we\u2019ve done more and more of\u2014and that is: \u201cHey, here is the hard truth. We\u2019re going to give you that up-front.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Shelly: <\/strong>I\u2019ve learned to become a little blunt with people. I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve lost friends or not from that\u2014but I feel like, from our experience, it\u2019s a lot better to tell people what could happen. A lot of people don\u2019t want to hear it; but later on, if they do adopt, hopefully, they\u2019ll remember that it\u2019s there, in the back of their head: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cOh, yes, the Bergerons said something about that,\u201d\u2014and not be so surprised. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the biggest things\u2014and probably the hardest thing for people to hear\u2014is that most of these kids\u2014that are older that have come from abandonment\u2014 have been sexually abused\u2014and to be prepared\u2014if you are going to take them in and have younger children in your home\u2014that you need to do a lot to protect everyone in the home.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes, so, what this looks like is\u2014one evening, we\u2019re sitting down with a couple in our church, over sushi. They\u2019re asking, \u201cWhat is it we need to get ready for?\u201d\u00a0 And there was a child that they had been connected with. So, they were learning a little bit about her. That\u2019s what Shelly said\u2014she said, \u201cWell, you need to be prepared that she\u2019s likely been sexually abused.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you could see\u2014especially, the mom\u2019s eyes\u2014but both of them kind of get really wide and get really quiet. Then, we lead into, \u201cbut that\u2019s not the end of the world,\u201d and, \u201cIt doesn\u2019t mean this child is going to be a monster or anything like that, but here\u2019s what you need to do to help them heal and to protect them when they come into your home.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, Jon, if that\u2019s a part of the past for a child, what does that mean in terms of what you\u2019re bringing into the family dynamic?\u2014that child may be acting out, sexually, in the home?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes. That\u2019s not uncommon\u2014that one of the ways that kids try to make sense of what has happened to them\u2014this exposure to sexuality at much too young of an age\u2014is they begin to act it out. Unfortunately, this, then, causes damage to be done to other children and to the family, if people aren\u2019t walking into it, with their eyes wide open. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber one, trying to prevent it; and number two, looking for the early evidence of it and not looking away because there is a strong temptation to say: \u201cOh, no, no. That didn\u2019t happen to my child.\u201d\u00a0 We\u2019ve heard that over and over\u2014and almost, without exception, within a couple of years, those same people come back to us and say, \u201cThey shared with me what happened in the orphanage.\u201d\u00a0 Then, we hear these horrific stories of abuse from even the best orphanages, at least from the outside. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, Shelly, if you\u2019ve got three biological kids at home\u2014and you\u2019re bringing home a five-year-old, who has been sexually abused\u2014at some level, your biological kids are now at risk; aren\u2019t they?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s correct. What we recommend to people is\u2014we say: \u201cDon\u2019t leave them alone. Make sure that your children are always being watched, playing in a central location. Don\u2019t share bedrooms.\u201d\u00a0 We have recommended, highly\u2014to put alarms on the door so you can hear when the kids are coming and going. You can tell them all it\u2019s for their own safety. It\u2019s to keep everyone in the family safe because you don\u2019t want to hurt that child more by allowing them to continue to do that because that will hurt them more as well as it could hurt other children in the family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes, but I think that it is important to say\u2014is\u2014a lot of times, people react to those types of recommendations with some level of: \u201cThat seems really mean. You\u2019re making that child out to be the bad guy,\u201d\u2014but you\u2019re not. You\u2019re protecting that child. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If we don\u2019t protect these kids from what they might do to themselves, by acting out, we\u2019re contributing, I believe, to more damage because, each time they act out, there is more damage done to them, in addition to what\u2019s done to others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to talk about another issue that comes up with adoption. It\u2019s that of attachment issues. I know, as a parent of an adopted child, when I first heard about this, I, frankly, kind of dismissed it. I kind of said, \u201cI think research is just gone amok here, and it\u2019s just making too much of too little.\u201d\u00a0 But the older I\u2019ve become and the more I\u2019ve heard the stories\u2014I really do think there is something about this thing\u2014that a baby can hear his or her mother\u2019s voice while they are in the womb. So, when they are born and that voice doesn\u2019t match\u2014even the voice of a parent who adopts, at birth\u2014there is still something that takes place there\u2014that causes a loss of attachment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSpeak to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>That\u2019s something that we\u2019re just beginning to understand. I believe the intricacies of what God created in His design for a family\u2014that there is something that starts, like you said, before birth in this connection between the child and the mother and even the father, who talks and whose voice is heard while the child is <em>in utero<\/em>, that begins a process that makes the raising of a child far easier. God designed it that way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we know, anytime we move outside of God\u2019s design, things don\u2019t work out so well. As beautiful as adoption is, the whole reason adoption exists is because God\u2019s design has been horribly broken. A family, somewhere, has been destroyed; and the need for another family is there to step in. When that design of God has been destroyed or damaged in some way, it\u2019s going to have an impact. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believe science is just starting to understand how God designed this to be\u2014and how the neuro chemicals and everything work together to create this bonding between parent and child\u2014that is critical to their development. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to use an illustration that\u2019s extreme, but it\u2019s one that happened to you guys. Your son\u2014that you adopted three days short of the age of 14\u2014grew up in China and, basically, spent the first 13 years of his life in an orphanage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Barbara and I have been to orphanages in China. We\u2019ve been to those in Russia. There are all kinds of orphanages. You can really understand how, from an attachment basis, it gets overlooked. It\u2019s just humanly not possible, with so few workers caring for so many little children, who have to be left alone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen your son came to your family and had been in your family for, I think, two or three years, at that point\u2014you talked about going to China. He mentioned what his feelings were if you found his parents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Yes. It\u2019s a really tough thing for him to understand\u2014once he was in a family\u2014that that meant that someone had abandoned him. He asked Jon, \u201cIf we went back to China, and when we saw his birth parents, would Jon kill them?\u201d\u00a0 And another time, he would say something similar\u2014and five minutes later, would ask, \u201cBut I hope that they can come to my high school graduation.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are birth parents that we\u2019ll never be able to find. He\u2019ll never be able to know who they are. That is deeply engrained in him, and that has caused so much loss. It makes sense, then, why he has so much pain, and hurt, and struggles in his life because of all of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jon, unpack what is going on in his heart when he says things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>I think what we are seeing\u2014and it\u2019s painful to watch, as a parent, because you see just the depth of the pain that that caused in him\u2014that turns into anger and rage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, he wanted to kill these people that he felt were responsible for 14 years of abuse, and neglect, and horrific experiences. At first blush, you think: \u201cWow!\u00a0 Is this just some crazy violent kid?\u201d\u00a0 But it\u2019s not. It\u2019s probably a normative response\u2014I would say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He knows, instinctively, \u201cSomebody should have been taking care of me, and nobody was!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>And that is, I think, the source of the anger and rage that we see in a lot of these kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>How do you help a young man, who\u2014that\u2019s his reality?\u00a0 He was abandoned. He was left in this situation. He\u2019s processing all of this anger and all of this rage. What can you say to him to help him to get over the hump?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Well, we get over the hump; and then, we go back again. Then, we get over the hump and go back. We go over it again and again because 14 years is never going to be overcome, but we try a lot of different things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that we do is try to talk to him and pretend like we talk to him, as if he were a baby. We\u2019ve done this before. [Emotion in voice] I pretend I\u2019m holding him and signing to him, as if he were my baby, and what I would have done if he were my baby, and: \u201cThis is what should have been for you. This is what life should have been like. You should have had a mom, who came and kissed you when you fell down and got hurt instead of people laughing at you,\u201d and, \u201cWhen someone stepped on you, instead of having other people keep doing that, your mom should have come and protected you and taken care of you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe tell him what it <em>should<\/em> have been like and what God does for us. We tell him, also, that despite all of those 14 years of pain, this is still where God wanted him to be. This was still God\u2019s plan\u2014not the pain and the hurt\u2014but God\u2019s plan to have a family for him\u2014it was this family. Before time began, this was the family for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod has touched his life in a miraculous way, despite all of the pain and hurt that we\u2019ve gone through with him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe knows that instinctively. He told us, not long after we came home, that he said: \u201cIn China, they told me that Jesus was fake; but now, you\u2019re telling me He\u2019s real. I know that He\u2019s real.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ve said before: \u201cYou can be mad at God. He can handle it. It\u2019s okay if you\u2019re mad.\u201d\u00a0 He goes: \u201cI\u2019m not mad at God. He saved me. He brought me to this family. I\u2019m mad at Satan. It\u2019s his fault.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As you\u2019re describing this re-parenting that you are doing, you get emotional in talking about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s hard stuff!\u00a0 It\u2019s not the way it\u2019s supposed to be. I think that\u2019s what\u2019s painful. It\u2019s painful for me to see that this is the hurt that\u2019s a part of his life, always. It\u2019s always going to be there, and it shouldn\u2019t have had to be like this\u2014this little boy, who I can imagine\u2014I see little Chinese boys running around. I think of our son\u2014he shouldn\u2019t have had that. [Emotion in voice] He should have had a mom and a dad to take care of him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>If I can share something\u2014one of the things that I\u2019ve been amazed with, as a professional, is the wisdom and the heart that God puts into mothers. I can tell you\u2014probably most of the healing that has come about in our son has been because of what she\u2019s describing. God gives her an intuitive sense of what he needs to hear. She speaks to him in a way that he can understand it. We\u2019ve seen tremendous growth and change through, I believe, her obedience and following the Spirit in that way. <br><br>There is no rule book to parenting, especially these kids. It\u2019s very unexpected, but God leads and the Spirit guides. I\u2019ve just been really amazed at seeing her love our son the way he needs to be loved. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Respectfully, Jon, you answered that, as a psychologist. I want you to answer and make a comment, as a father, because there is a unique assignment to you, as well, to love in a very difficult situation\u2014that you see is wearing out your wife, at points. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Yes, as a father, it\u2019s challenging because I know I\u2019m called to love my wife and love my children. Sometimes, those things seem to be in conflict. Sometimes, it\u2019s a matter of: \u201cHow I do protect my wife\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jon: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cand take care of my child, at the same time?\u00a0 What does that look like?\u201d\u00a0 There are not any easy answers here, and there are a lot of families out there that know exactly what I\u2019m talking about. They need the Spirit of God leading them and guiding them. They also need the family of God to come around them, and support them, and help them through these difficult situations because you can\u2019t do this alone. I can tell you that, with all the training and experience I\u2019ve had as a professional, it\u2019s more than I can handle. It\u2019s more than we can handle. We needed people to love on us as we\u2019re trying to love these kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We asked you earlier what kind of advice you would give to that young na\u00efve couple\u2014that has a heart for this\u2014and you want to give them the reality of what they are getting into. You\u2019re going to be talking to a bunch of these folks in September, when you get together for the <em>Rooted<\/em> conference that Hope for Orphans is going to be hosting in Texas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tExplain for folks what this conference is all about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jon: <\/strong>It\u2019s a one-day event where they come. We\u2019re going to have, actually, a lot of different people\u2014folks like Paul David Tripp and Voddie Baucham are going to share, along with some teaching and training from myself, about how the parenting process itself, for these kids especially, I think, is the gospel lived out. <em>Rooted<\/em> is about understanding that the answers to the questions about \u201cHow do I deal with this?\u201d are rooted in the gospel\u2014in the Bible\u2019s description of how God loves us and parents us\u2014showing where science can inform that framework. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn addition to individual families, the other audience for this event is the church itself because the vast majority of these couples are going to be coming from churches. What I want them to understand is that God has created the church family to do the work of supporting and caring for other families when they are struggling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I see this as the center of the solutions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA lot of people want to throw out a lot of different professional solutions\u2014take them to this treatment facility or see this specialist\u2014but I really believe the real healing for the family and the child is going to come out of the support of the family that God put them in\u2014the church family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelly: <\/strong>I just think it\u2019s really going to be a great encouragement to families. I think that people coming will feel like, \u201cHere are some other people who are in the same boat as I am, and I\u2019m not alone.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. What you are really reflecting is that FamilyLife wants to be an encouragement in the adoption movement. There are a lot of folks who are listening to our broadcast, Bob, who need to get with it and get on the\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Need to get rooted; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, they need to get rooted\u2014[Laughter]\u2014and others who need to check into foster care. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you didn\u2019t hear the earlier broadcast, with Jon and Shelly, you need to hear about two reluctant foster care parents and how God ultimately redirected, for all practical purposes,\u00a0 your marriage, your family, and your vocation around a small decision that you fought all the way to the finish line\u2014about becoming foster care parents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just really proud of you two. I think you guys have modeled some tough love\u2014not in a story book situation\u2014but in some tough circumstances. I just appreciate your work with Hope for Orphans. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jon: <\/strong>Thanks. It\u2019s been great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, and both of us hope that there will be a great turnout for the <em>Rooted<\/em> conference. It\u2019s coming up in September. Once again, if folks would like more information about that event and how they can be a part of it\u2014even from a distance\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link in the upper left-hand corner of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d\u00a0 You\u2019ll find information about the <em>Rooted<\/em> conference there. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve also got additional information for parents who are thinking about adoption\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014who want to know more about what that process might look like for their family. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link that says, \u201cGO DEEPER\u201d; or call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, this is shout-out week. We\u2019re giving some shout-outs to folks who are celebrating anniversaries this week. I want to say, \u201cCongratulations!\u201d to Sam and Anna DeJong, who live in Marysville, Washington\u201456 years of marriage today. That deserves a\u2014I\u2019ll tell you what that deserves. That deserves a milkshake from AJ\u2019s Burgers, there in Marysville. So\u2014just a recommendation\u2014that\u2019s\u2014if it was my anniversary, milkshake would be what I\u2019d be looking for. The DeJongs are Legacy Partners, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We appreciate you guys for your faithful support of this ministry\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014grateful to have you as a part of the team. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I just want to mention to everybody else, who is listening, this is the last week of our fiscal year. We\u2019re trying to end this year in a good, solid healthy financial place. We could use your help. We have some friends, who have come along and offered that, this week, they will match every donation that is given in support of our fiscal yearend, on a dollar for dollar basis, up to a total of $100,000. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we have a great opportunity and a short time to make it happen. Would you consider, right now, going to FamilyLifeToday.com?\u2014click the link, in the upper right-hand corner, that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d and make an online donation to help support us, as we try to finish out the fiscal year here in the month of August. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You click the link that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d in the upper right-hand corner. Or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY, and you can make a donation over the phone. Or you can mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd our zip code is 72223. Join the DeJongs and be a part of what God is doing through the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. And again, we appreciate your support and are grateful for your partnership with us, here in this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTomorrow, we\u2019re going to get a chance to hear from Barbara Rainey as she shares a little bit about the adoption journey that is a part of Dennis and Barbara\u2019s story. So, I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303173","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303173"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303173"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303173"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303173"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303173"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303173"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303173"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}