{"id":303119,"date":"2014-07-11T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-07-11T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/facing-temptation-head-on\/"},"modified":"2014-07-11T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-07-11T15:00:00","slug":"facing-temptation-head-on","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/facing-temptation-head-on\/","title":{"rendered":"Facing Temptation Head On"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Heath Lambert and Jim Vander Spek join forces to talk about overcoming lust. Having dealt with lust themselves, Heath and Jim tell how they found freedom from this particular sin.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-11.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"29.52M","filesize_raw":"30957022","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2844,2827],"tags":[4497,2916,5375,4893],"podcast_series":[8022],"cwp_profile":[9344,9345],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303119","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-pornography","category-repentance","tag-coming-clean","tag-men","tag-pornography-addiction","tag-sexual-temptation","podcast_series-overcoming-lust","cwp_profile-heath-lambert","cwp_profile-jim-vander-spek","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303119\/facing-temptation-head-on","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303119\/facing-temptation-head-on","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"9gsv1YbLmH\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/facing-temptation-head-on\/\">Facing Temptation Head On<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/facing-temptation-head-on\/embed\/#?secret=9gsv1YbLmH\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Facing Temptation Head On&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"9gsv1YbLmH\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-11.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-11.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus equated looking on a woman with lust to committing adultery. Is it really that big of a deal?\u00a0 Heath Lambert says it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>When you sin, sexually\u2014when you look at pornography\u2014that is a sin against your wife. You took vows to God and to your wife that you would have that kind of relationship with her alone. So, when you bring other women into the marriage bed\u2014even if they are just on a screen\u2014you\u2019ve sinned against your wife. You need to ask her forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, July 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. The battle for sexual purity really is a battle. How do we fight it?\u00a0 Heath Lambert and Jim Vander Spek are going to tell us today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou got the same letter that I got copied on from a woman who wrote to us and said: \u201cHow does a wife deal with her husband\u2019s pornography addiction as they are working on trying to heal the marriage?\u00a0 Can their relationship be restored?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe went on to describe her relationship with her husband, which, as she described it\u2014it\u2019s a healthy relationship. They are active in their local church. She said he\u2019s a deacon. They\u2019re life group leaders. They go to a solid church; but she said: \u201cHe would not consider an accountability partner,\u201d and \u201cHe does not see this as a problem.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s killing her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. What I know our female listeners understand is a big problem for men\u2014and a growing one for women. It\u2019s the subject of lust and pornography. We\u2019ve got a couple of authors here who join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014Jim Vander Spek and \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDr. Heath Lambert. Heath, Jim, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Thank you. It\u2019s good to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>It\u2019s good to be back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Jim is a CPA in Southern California. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe and his wife Marsha have two children and six grandchildren. He has written a book called <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em>. Dr. Heath Lambert is a professor at The Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. He has written a number of books, including <em>Finally Free<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou say in your book that there are eight, really, principles for overcoming lust and addictions to pornography\u2014and it\u2019s all built on a foundation. Unpack that foundation for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. This is helpful because the guys I talked to\u2014most of them think, \u201cIf I\u2019ll get an accountability partner\u2014that will be the fix for me.\u201d\u00a0 Then, they come back to me six months later and say, \u201cYes, it\u2019s\u2014that wasn\u2019t the magic pill.\u201d\u00a0 It takes more than just having some kind of accountability; doesn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. We\u2019re for accountability. We are for all the strategies. The book mentions several strategies as you are talking about here, but all of those strategies have to grow out of a foundation. They grow out of rich soil. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe soil is the gospel of grace. We are not, as Christians, behaviorists. We\u2019re not, as people, machines. We don\u2019t work by just changing behavior: \u201cStop doing this. Start doing that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible teaches that we have a heart that is actively choosing, and desiring, and wanting things. To change, at that deep level of the heart, it takes the gospel of God\u2019s grace. It takes a Savior, whose name is Jesus\u2014who comes and He lives a perfect life to earn our obedience. And He dies on the cross to pay for sin. And He raises from the grave to demonstrate His powerful victory over those dark forces. It takes Jesus Christ to change who we are at a level of depth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we need grace if we\u2019re going to be different. The foundation of grace that I talk about in the book is forgiving grace\u2014where men and women, who struggle with pornography or any other sin\u2014can go to the Lord and ask the Lord for forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHaving confessed their sin, and believing that because of whom Jesus is and what He has done, they will be forgiven. Then, transforming grace\u2014where God does more in our salvation than just forgiving us for all the junk that we\u2019ve done. God actually gives us His power to be like His very own Son, Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe lay hold of God\u2019s transforming grace by believing it. We lay hold of his forgiving grace by believing it. The more we believe who Jesus is and what He has done, the more we will be changing and more closely conformed into the image of Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; but you know that a guy hears you say that\u2014and he says: \u201cI pray. I try to have faith. I wake up and go: \u2018Okay, I believe. I believe,\u2019 and that night I stumble.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right. That\u2019s the problem. There are a couple of different problems with resources that are out there about pornography. One of them is they are behavioristic:\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHave accountability groups, confess the sin to somebody that knows something about it or that can help you.\u201d That\u2019s good, but it\u2019s not good enough on its own. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe problem you are talking about is the problem of where we say: \u201cHey, you need grace. You need grace to be different. You need Jesus.\u201d That is just pious religious talk\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>\u2014if we don\u2019t show how the gospel of grace translates into strategies. What I\u2019m trying to do in my book is show how the gospel of grace translates into actual, practical categories of change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, a guy who is facing temptation in the moment, how does he practically appropriate grace in that moment?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, let me read a verse here. Maybe this will kind of guide our conversation as you answer that question, Heath. In Romans, Chapter 13, at the end of the chapter, he starts talking about laying aside the deeds of darkness and not getting involved in sexual immorality. And the last verse\u2014he says in verse 14\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201cBut put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh to gratify its desires.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, take Bob\u2019s question\u2014how does the guy, who is struggling with this, \u201cput on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>I don\u2019t even reference Romans 13:14 in the book, but I think that the book is an exposition of Romans 13:14. I think there are a couple of things you need to do. First of all, in the moment\u2014the way you lay hold of grace in the moment\u2014the way you put on Jesus is to talk to Him\u2014like talk to Jesus. I mean, so many guys\u2014they get on this hamster wheel of \u201cI\u2019m a jerk,\u201d and \u201cI have to do this,\u201d\u2014\u201cOh, now, that I\u2019ve done it. Now, everybody is going to think I\u2019m a pervert,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m going to lose my job. My wife\u2019s going to leave. My kids are going to think I\u2019m dirty,\u201d and all these kinds of things. That is self-talk. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we need is God-talk. We need to stretch those thoughts out to the Lord and turn them into a prayer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Lord will help you, right now. You don\u2019t need to wait until 30 minutes after you\u2019ve sinned to ask for the Lord\u2019s help. The Lord is a present help in time of trouble. He will help you right now. So, put on the Lord Jesus right now and start talking to Him. You will find that you cannot talk to Jesus and look at pornography at the same time. It\u2019s impossible. So, if you are beseeching the Lord and asking Him for help, He will help you. You\u2019ll have to quit asking for help in order to go look at porn. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs true as that is, the best way, in the moment, to get help is to not wait until the moment to get help. Making no provision for the flesh is a biblical invitation\u2014I mean, think about all the stuff that is in that verse. It\u2019s an invitation for me to consider all of the ways and all of the areas where I struggle with lust and with pornography and all of the things I need to do to cut off those sources of sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, just as Jim has spoken about, as you cut off those avenues for indulging in pornography, you\u2019ve still made provision for the flesh if you haven\u2019t uprooted it at the level of cherishing lust in your heart. When\u2014guys will come to me; and they\u2019ll say, \u201cHow do I keep from looking at porn when my finger\u2019s dancing on the mouse, and I\u2019m looking at the screen, and I\u2019m thinking about not doing it?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m saying, \u201cWell, there are a lot of things we need to say about that, but one of the things you are going to have to do is start fighting before your finger is dancing over the mouse.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are a million things that have gone wrong in your heart\u2014a trillion things that have gone wrong with your walk with Jesus by the time you are looking at that computer. We\u2019ve got to uproot lust. We\u2019ve got to uproot all of these avenues that we have to get at it. That entails a fight that is happening before the moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s go to those principles in your book that help you \u201cmake no provision for the flesh.\u201d\u00a0 You talk about a godly sorrow about pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. I\u2019m asking and urging for men to pursue brokenness over this sin\u2014not be neutral about \/ not just say, \u201cWell, it\u2019s bad,\u201d in some sort of disconnected sense\u2014but be truly broken and to be broken in the right way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible is very practical. The Apostle Paul talks about two kinds of sorrow. There is worldly sorrow and godly sorrow. Worldly sorrow kills you. Godly sorrow brings you life and repentance. The difference is, essentially\u2014he spells out several different categories that I line out in the book\u2014but he says that worldly sorrow is essentially: \u201cI\u2019m sorry over the consequences. I got caught. Now, my wife thinks I\u2019m a freak. She might leave. My church thinks I\u2019m gross, and I regret that I got caught.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the Bible says that that kind of worldly sorrow kills you because the logic of the regret is the same logic that led to the commission of the sin in the first place: \u201cI look at porn because I want what I want. Now, I\u2019m sad because you took away what I want.\u201d\u00a0 But it\u2019s still about me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe eye of the tornado in worldly sorrow is the same as the sin that led to it: \u201cI want what I want.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGodly sorrow is broken, from the bottom of your heart, that God was offended. So, I\u2019m asking men\u2014I\u2019m <em>pleading <\/em>with men\u2014\u201cWhen you are crying \/when you are broken in the aftermath of the discovery of a sin, don\u2019t think that you\u2019re good.\u201d\u00a0 You might have the kind of sorrow that will kill you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jim, I\u2019m curious because, as Heath talks about this sorrow that is a repentant kind of sorrow\u2014is that what you ultimately came to that was a part of the turning point in your life, as you wrestled with your lust?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>When I had lust burning inside of me, sorrow didn\u2019t really make a dent in it. It was not powerful enough. If we believe that we can stop ourselves when we are in front of that computer screen or in front of that TV\u2014if we really think we can get self-control, at that point, we\u2019re fooling ourselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe can only stop if we root out lust from our lives. This is an achievable goal. This is something that every Christian in this day and age has to achieve. It is a changed society. It is no longer a society where we can protect ourselves, our families, our church, and our children from pornography. They have to learn how to cope with it. The way they cope with it is by overcoming lust within their hearts because the lust will feed on whatever is available\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>\u2014to feed on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But wasn\u2019t there some point of brokenness in your own life?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Oh, absolutely\u2014absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, describe that and what that experience was like\u2014for me; can you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>When I realized that all of my rationales were wrong\u2014deadly wrong\u2014that I was the one who was the cause for my sin\u2014I couldn\u2019t blame anybody for this\u2014it was all me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was just devastating for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that devastation does not translate into repentance in an effective way. It puts us on the path to repentance in a real way so that you can come to a point where you can go into a hotel room and you recoil from that\u2014you totally recoil from lust in your heart\u2014not just going to the station\u2014but just the thought of how you would have done it in the past\u2014how you would have displeased God\u2014and just feeling a desire to get away from it\u2014to leave the TV off. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what the Spirit of God does in us. He replaces all that sin with His presence. When we walk in the Spirit, it\u2019s not a matter of saying, \u201cNo,\u201d 90 times and then saying, \u201cYes,\u201d once because if you say, \u201cYes,\u201d once\u2014the whole time you\u2019re thinking about your sin\u2014no, no, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou have to say, \u201cYes,\u201d to the Spirit 90 times, and then, that one time you failed\u2014you\u2019ve been walking in the Spirit\u2014it\u2019s so distressing that you have to repent\u2014but the focus is always on the Spirit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Take us to that time when you finally came to grips with what you\u2019d done in your marriage with Marsha and you confessed it to her and did finally own it as you just said you owned it 100 percent and asked for her forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>It\u2019s an ongoing process; but what happened is\u2014all of a sudden, I could\u2014instead of making rationales \/ excuses\u2014all of a sudden, I was dealing with it. I was dealing with it with some other men who were going through similar things and learning together. It was exciting. She could, all of a sudden, say: \u201cHey, he\u2019s getting it. I knew this all along. It was adultery in the heart. Didn\u2019t you know that?\u201d\u00a0 Yes, I kind of knew that, but I did not act on it that way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Heath, we talked a little bit about accountability\u2014and that\u2019s not the magic pill, as we said\u2014but there is something to bringing your sin into the light and saying: \u201cHere it is. Everybody look and see what it is.\u201d\u00a0 That drains some of the power off of the sin; doesn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. This is a biblical principle of exposing the darkness to the light. I\u2019ve got two boys. They love all the things that normal boys love. They love to go in the backyard after it rains. We\u2019ve got this big garden, surrounded by big rocks. They love to pull up those big rocks. There are worms, and pill bugs, and all kinds of unspeakable things crawling around in there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat happens when you pull that big rock up and the light hits it, the worms go away \/ the bugs go away. That is the biblical principle. Sin thrives in the darkness. When you shine the light on the darkness, it\u2014there is not room for sin to grow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I have told guys, when I have talked with them about this: \u201cIf you have other men to whom you are accountable, but you\u2019ve not yet confessed this to your wife and asked her to be a part of the battle, I don\u2019t think you\u2019ll win the battle.\u201d\u00a0 Do you agree with that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>I agree because when you sin, sexually\u2014when you look at pornography\u2014that is a sin against your wife. You took vows to God and to your wife that you would have that kind of relationship with her alone. So, when you bring other women into the marriage bed\u2014even if they are just on the screen\u2014you\u2019ve sinned against your wife. You need to ask her forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that mistakes that guys often make\u2014when they do that\u2014is they go into too many details. They ask their wives to bear a load of information that they should not have to bear. Then, they also sort of get into some kind of weird relationship, where a wife becomes an accountability partner. A wife does not need to be the cop. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA wife needs to be a wife; but every wife, having heard a confession, needs to know that: \u201cHey, my husband has somebody in his life that does know all the details\u2014that is asking the hard questions\u2014that is getting the accountability reports. If I have any unanswered questions, I can go to that person.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And to that woman, Heath, who is, perhaps, suspicious that her husband has viewed pornography or is viewing pornography\u2014present tense\u2014what coaching would you have for her\u2014and what really could be a feeling of being betrayed, at that point?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Sure, well, I think two things. I think, first of all, that wife needs to speak to her husband. A suspicious wife\u2014you know, love believes the best. Love believes all things. We are supposed to extend the measure of judgment that we would like extended to us. So, we don\u2019t make judgments in suspicion. We make judgments in love. Yet, if we have these suspicions, we need to do something with them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I\u2019m encouraging women to go to their husband\u2014and without accusing\u2014if you\u2019ve got evidence, that\u2019s when we can accuse\u2014but if we are suspicious \/ we don\u2019t have evidence\u2014but we can say, \u201cHoney, I want us to be pursuing purity in our marriage together.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMaybe there are things that she has noticed. Maybe he\u2019s not shown sexual interest in her \/ maybe she sees things in the internet history that raise questions\u2014she could bring those things to him. Or she could say\u2014what we are all talking about: \u201cAll you have to do is spend the night in a hotel room, and this is there. All you have to do is walk in the mall, and this is\u2014you don\u2019t have to go looking for it. It\u2019s looking for you. And so, Honey, in this kind of culture, I would like you to have some accountability on your computer. I\u2019d like you to have some accountability on your smartphone. Could we find a couple at church\u2014and the husband in that couple would receive your accountability reports\u2014would know the password to the protections on the internet?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA husband\u2014who is pursuing godliness and who wants to honor his wife\u2014those should be easy requests to fulfill. If it would honor my wife to have accountability on the internet, well\u2014shoot\u2014I\u2019ll do it. If I don\u2019t have anything to hide\u2014why not?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tUnfortunately, a husband that gets defensive and pushes back hard against a suggestion like that\u2014is only raising your suspicions, not putting them at ease. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the second thing is\u2014depending on how your husband responds\u2014don\u2019t think you have to go this alone. Wives are called to honor their husbands, respect their husbands, and submit to their husbands. They do not have to prop up their husband\u2019s sin. You have to obey all the passages in the Bible that teach you how to be his wife, but you also have to obey all the passages in the Bible that teach you how to be his sister in Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou are allowed to go reach out for help from the church\u2014 other wise ladies \/ a pastor\u2014and get help so that you\u2019re not suffering with this alone if you have a situation where a husband just presses back hard against you. Some of the people I know that are in the most pain are suffering alone\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>\u2014because of a husband who is sinning against them. And that is not the alternative. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jim, any counsel you would give to a wife\u2014or anything that your wife did that was helpful?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Most important thing for us to understand was that this was something we could beat. The idea that we are perpetually in a battle\u2014that\u2019s unbearable. It\u2019s unbearable in a marriage\u2014sort of like I have a mistress\u2014only once a year. So, if you learn and you demonstrate that this is something you can overcome in your life and you have that victory, you don\u2019t have to be explicit with your wife saying \u201cthis.\u201d\u00a0 They see it. They know it. They understand. They read us like a book, and we cannot hide our sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if we are lusting\u2014if we\u2019re noticing things and looking in a way\u2014so, if they see that, they\u2019re not going to be satisfied with the fact that you have gotten rid of porn on your computer. They want, in you, a pure heart. And this is what we can achieve in Christ. This is the promise to be free from sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a joyous joint-undertaking in a marriage because that is where the fruit is born\u2014is the union within a marriage, and the sharing, and the fact that it is not being polluted by other things in the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m just reminded, as we\u2019re talking here today, that it takes God to turn a man and a woman into one\u2014two selfish, broken sinful human beings that desperately need the Lordship of Jesus Christ in their lives to be able to go the distance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the passage we read at the beginning is worth reading again, here at the end. Romans, Chapter 13, verse 14: \u201cBut put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh to gratify its desires.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s a great verse for every marriage. Submit to Christ\u2014put Him on \/ have the mind of Christ\u2014and make no provision for your selfishness\u2014no provision for lust.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tInstead, don\u2019t try to gratify those desires\u2014instead, try to please, in the power of the Holy Spirit\u2014please your Heavenly Father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I think for all of us to better understand the battle we\u2019re in, it would help to get a copy of Heath Lambert\u2019s book, <em>Finally Free: Fighting for Purity with the Power of Grace<\/em>. We\u2019ve got the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center, along with Jim Vander Spek\u2019s book, <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em>. You can find out more about both of these books when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order online if you\u2019d like. Again, <em>Finally Free<\/em> by Heath Lambert or <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em> by Jim Vander Spek\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order the books; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know\u2014this issue we have talked about today\u2014the issue of lust\u2014is a very real issue in a lot of marriages\u2014a lot of men and women doing battle with this issue\u2014some of them stumbling \/ some of them succeeding. Here, at FamilyLife, we want to provide resources. We want to provide help\u2014whether it is online through this daily radio program \/ through the resources we offer. We want to be an ally in helping you develop a godly strong marriage and family relationship. That\u2019s our mission: \u201cTo effectively develop godly marriages and families who change the world, one home at a time.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we\u2019re grateful for those of you who share that mission with us by helping to support this ministry\u2014those of you who give an occasional gift to help support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> or those of you who are Legacy Partners and make a monthly contribution to support this ministry. We\u2019re thankful that you join with us in the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a message from Dennis and Barbara Rainey about going all the way to the finish line together in marriage. This is a message that they gave at one of our <em>I Still Do<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup> marriage events a few years back. Dennis and Barbara talk about the challenging years in the early years of their marriage and how they had to lean into Christ in order to persevere through some very difficult times. The CD is our thank-you gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you go to FamilyLifeToday.com, click in the upper right-hand corner where it says, \u201cI CARE,\u201d and make an online donation; or you can request a copy of the CD when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY and make a donation by phone. You can also request the CD when you write a check and mail it to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. And our mailing address is P O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. And our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd with that, we\u2019ve got to wrap things up for this week. Thanks for being with us. Hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk with Scott Stanley, who has been researching marriage for more than two decades. Scott\u2019s been doing a lot of looking at what it is that causes couples to\u2014not just stay together\u2014but to enjoy being married to one another. We\u2019ll talk about marriage as a lasting promise on Monday. Hope you can tune in and join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["29.52M"],"filesize_raw":["30957022"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303119.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303119.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Lambert and Jim Vander Spek join forces to talk about overcoming lust. Having dealt with lust themselves, Heath and Jim tell how they found freedom from this particular sin.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus equated looking on a woman with lust to committing adultery. Is it really that big of a deal?\u00a0 Heath Lambert says it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>When you sin, sexually\u2014when you look at pornography\u2014that is a sin against your wife. You took vows to God and to your wife that you would have that kind of relationship with her alone. So, when you bring other women into the marriage bed\u2014even if they are just on a screen\u2014you\u2019ve sinned against your wife. You need to ask her forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, July 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. The battle for sexual purity really is a battle. How do we fight it?\u00a0 Heath Lambert and Jim Vander Spek are going to tell us today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou got the same letter that I got copied on from a woman who wrote to us and said: \u201cHow does a wife deal with her husband\u2019s pornography addiction as they are working on trying to heal the marriage?\u00a0 Can their relationship be restored?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe went on to describe her relationship with her husband, which, as she described it\u2014it\u2019s a healthy relationship. They are active in their local church. She said he\u2019s a deacon. They\u2019re life group leaders. They go to a solid church; but she said: \u201cHe would not consider an accountability partner,\u201d and \u201cHe does not see this as a problem.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s killing her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. What I know our female listeners understand is a big problem for men\u2014and a growing one for women. It\u2019s the subject of lust and pornography. We\u2019ve got a couple of authors here who join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014Jim Vander Spek and \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDr. Heath Lambert. Heath, Jim, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Thank you. It\u2019s good to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>It\u2019s good to be back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Jim is a CPA in Southern California. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe and his wife Marsha have two children and six grandchildren. He has written a book called <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em>. Dr. Heath Lambert is a professor at The Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. He has written a number of books, including <em>Finally Free<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou say in your book that there are eight, really, principles for overcoming lust and addictions to pornography\u2014and it\u2019s all built on a foundation. Unpack that foundation for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. This is helpful because the guys I talked to\u2014most of them think, \u201cIf I\u2019ll get an accountability partner\u2014that will be the fix for me.\u201d\u00a0 Then, they come back to me six months later and say, \u201cYes, it\u2019s\u2014that wasn\u2019t the magic pill.\u201d\u00a0 It takes more than just having some kind of accountability; doesn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. We\u2019re for accountability. We are for all the strategies. The book mentions several strategies as you are talking about here, but all of those strategies have to grow out of a foundation. They grow out of rich soil. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe soil is the gospel of grace. We are not, as Christians, behaviorists. We\u2019re not, as people, machines. We don\u2019t work by just changing behavior: \u201cStop doing this. Start doing that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible teaches that we have a heart that is actively choosing, and desiring, and wanting things. To change, at that deep level of the heart, it takes the gospel of God\u2019s grace. It takes a Savior, whose name is Jesus\u2014who comes and He lives a perfect life to earn our obedience. And He dies on the cross to pay for sin. And He raises from the grave to demonstrate His powerful victory over those dark forces. It takes Jesus Christ to change who we are at a level of depth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we need grace if we\u2019re going to be different. The foundation of grace that I talk about in the book is forgiving grace\u2014where men and women, who struggle with pornography or any other sin\u2014can go to the Lord and ask the Lord for forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHaving confessed their sin, and believing that because of whom Jesus is and what He has done, they will be forgiven. Then, transforming grace\u2014where God does more in our salvation than just forgiving us for all the junk that we\u2019ve done. God actually gives us His power to be like His very own Son, Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe lay hold of God\u2019s transforming grace by believing it. We lay hold of his forgiving grace by believing it. The more we believe who Jesus is and what He has done, the more we will be changing and more closely conformed into the image of Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; but you know that a guy hears you say that\u2014and he says: \u201cI pray. I try to have faith. I wake up and go: \u2018Okay, I believe. I believe,\u2019 and that night I stumble.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right. That\u2019s the problem. There are a couple of different problems with resources that are out there about pornography. One of them is they are behavioristic:\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHave accountability groups, confess the sin to somebody that knows something about it or that can help you.\u201d That\u2019s good, but it\u2019s not good enough on its own. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe problem you are talking about is the problem of where we say: \u201cHey, you need grace. You need grace to be different. You need Jesus.\u201d That is just pious religious talk\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>\u2014if we don\u2019t show how the gospel of grace translates into strategies. What I\u2019m trying to do in my book is show how the gospel of grace translates into actual, practical categories of change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, a guy who is facing temptation in the moment, how does he practically appropriate grace in that moment?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, let me read a verse here. Maybe this will kind of guide our conversation as you answer that question, Heath. In Romans, Chapter 13, at the end of the chapter, he starts talking about laying aside the deeds of darkness and not getting involved in sexual immorality. And the last verse\u2014he says in verse 14\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201cBut put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh to gratify its desires.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, take Bob\u2019s question\u2014how does the guy, who is struggling with this, \u201cput on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>I don\u2019t even reference Romans 13:14 in the book, but I think that the book is an exposition of Romans 13:14. I think there are a couple of things you need to do. First of all, in the moment\u2014the way you lay hold of grace in the moment\u2014the way you put on Jesus is to talk to Him\u2014like talk to Jesus. I mean, so many guys\u2014they get on this hamster wheel of \u201cI\u2019m a jerk,\u201d and \u201cI have to do this,\u201d\u2014\u201cOh, now, that I\u2019ve done it. Now, everybody is going to think I\u2019m a pervert,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m going to lose my job. My wife\u2019s going to leave. My kids are going to think I\u2019m dirty,\u201d and all these kinds of things. That is self-talk. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we need is God-talk. We need to stretch those thoughts out to the Lord and turn them into a prayer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Lord will help you, right now. You don\u2019t need to wait until 30 minutes after you\u2019ve sinned to ask for the Lord\u2019s help. The Lord is a present help in time of trouble. He will help you right now. So, put on the Lord Jesus right now and start talking to Him. You will find that you cannot talk to Jesus and look at pornography at the same time. It\u2019s impossible. So, if you are beseeching the Lord and asking Him for help, He will help you. You\u2019ll have to quit asking for help in order to go look at porn. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs true as that is, the best way, in the moment, to get help is to not wait until the moment to get help. Making no provision for the flesh is a biblical invitation\u2014I mean, think about all the stuff that is in that verse. It\u2019s an invitation for me to consider all of the ways and all of the areas where I struggle with lust and with pornography and all of the things I need to do to cut off those sources of sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, just as Jim has spoken about, as you cut off those avenues for indulging in pornography, you\u2019ve still made provision for the flesh if you haven\u2019t uprooted it at the level of cherishing lust in your heart. When\u2014guys will come to me; and they\u2019ll say, \u201cHow do I keep from looking at porn when my finger\u2019s dancing on the mouse, and I\u2019m looking at the screen, and I\u2019m thinking about not doing it?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m saying, \u201cWell, there are a lot of things we need to say about that, but one of the things you are going to have to do is start fighting before your finger is dancing over the mouse.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are a million things that have gone wrong in your heart\u2014a trillion things that have gone wrong with your walk with Jesus by the time you are looking at that computer. We\u2019ve got to uproot lust. We\u2019ve got to uproot all of these avenues that we have to get at it. That entails a fight that is happening before the moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s go to those principles in your book that help you \u201cmake no provision for the flesh.\u201d\u00a0 You talk about a godly sorrow about pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. I\u2019m asking and urging for men to pursue brokenness over this sin\u2014not be neutral about \/ not just say, \u201cWell, it\u2019s bad,\u201d in some sort of disconnected sense\u2014but be truly broken and to be broken in the right way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible is very practical. The Apostle Paul talks about two kinds of sorrow. There is worldly sorrow and godly sorrow. Worldly sorrow kills you. Godly sorrow brings you life and repentance. The difference is, essentially\u2014he spells out several different categories that I line out in the book\u2014but he says that worldly sorrow is essentially: \u201cI\u2019m sorry over the consequences. I got caught. Now, my wife thinks I\u2019m a freak. She might leave. My church thinks I\u2019m gross, and I regret that I got caught.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the Bible says that that kind of worldly sorrow kills you because the logic of the regret is the same logic that led to the commission of the sin in the first place: \u201cI look at porn because I want what I want. Now, I\u2019m sad because you took away what I want.\u201d\u00a0 But it\u2019s still about me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe eye of the tornado in worldly sorrow is the same as the sin that led to it: \u201cI want what I want.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGodly sorrow is broken, from the bottom of your heart, that God was offended. So, I\u2019m asking men\u2014I\u2019m <em>pleading <\/em>with men\u2014\u201cWhen you are crying \/when you are broken in the aftermath of the discovery of a sin, don\u2019t think that you\u2019re good.\u201d\u00a0 You might have the kind of sorrow that will kill you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jim, I\u2019m curious because, as Heath talks about this sorrow that is a repentant kind of sorrow\u2014is that what you ultimately came to that was a part of the turning point in your life, as you wrestled with your lust?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>When I had lust burning inside of me, sorrow didn\u2019t really make a dent in it. It was not powerful enough. If we believe that we can stop ourselves when we are in front of that computer screen or in front of that TV\u2014if we really think we can get self-control, at that point, we\u2019re fooling ourselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe can only stop if we root out lust from our lives. This is an achievable goal. This is something that every Christian in this day and age has to achieve. It is a changed society. It is no longer a society where we can protect ourselves, our families, our church, and our children from pornography. They have to learn how to cope with it. The way they cope with it is by overcoming lust within their hearts because the lust will feed on whatever is available\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>\u2014to feed on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But wasn\u2019t there some point of brokenness in your own life?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Oh, absolutely\u2014absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, describe that and what that experience was like\u2014for me; can you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>When I realized that all of my rationales were wrong\u2014deadly wrong\u2014that I was the one who was the cause for my sin\u2014I couldn\u2019t blame anybody for this\u2014it was all me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was just devastating for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that devastation does not translate into repentance in an effective way. It puts us on the path to repentance in a real way so that you can come to a point where you can go into a hotel room and you recoil from that\u2014you totally recoil from lust in your heart\u2014not just going to the station\u2014but just the thought of how you would have done it in the past\u2014how you would have displeased God\u2014and just feeling a desire to get away from it\u2014to leave the TV off. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what the Spirit of God does in us. He replaces all that sin with His presence. When we walk in the Spirit, it\u2019s not a matter of saying, \u201cNo,\u201d 90 times and then saying, \u201cYes,\u201d once because if you say, \u201cYes,\u201d once\u2014the whole time you\u2019re thinking about your sin\u2014no, no, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou have to say, \u201cYes,\u201d to the Spirit 90 times, and then, that one time you failed\u2014you\u2019ve been walking in the Spirit\u2014it\u2019s so distressing that you have to repent\u2014but the focus is always on the Spirit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Take us to that time when you finally came to grips with what you\u2019d done in your marriage with Marsha and you confessed it to her and did finally own it as you just said you owned it 100 percent and asked for her forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>It\u2019s an ongoing process; but what happened is\u2014all of a sudden, I could\u2014instead of making rationales \/ excuses\u2014all of a sudden, I was dealing with it. I was dealing with it with some other men who were going through similar things and learning together. It was exciting. She could, all of a sudden, say: \u201cHey, he\u2019s getting it. I knew this all along. It was adultery in the heart. Didn\u2019t you know that?\u201d\u00a0 Yes, I kind of knew that, but I did not act on it that way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Heath, we talked a little bit about accountability\u2014and that\u2019s not the magic pill, as we said\u2014but there is something to bringing your sin into the light and saying: \u201cHere it is. Everybody look and see what it is.\u201d\u00a0 That drains some of the power off of the sin; doesn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. This is a biblical principle of exposing the darkness to the light. I\u2019ve got two boys. They love all the things that normal boys love. They love to go in the backyard after it rains. We\u2019ve got this big garden, surrounded by big rocks. They love to pull up those big rocks. There are worms, and pill bugs, and all kinds of unspeakable things crawling around in there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat happens when you pull that big rock up and the light hits it, the worms go away \/ the bugs go away. That is the biblical principle. Sin thrives in the darkness. When you shine the light on the darkness, it\u2014there is not room for sin to grow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I have told guys, when I have talked with them about this: \u201cIf you have other men to whom you are accountable, but you\u2019ve not yet confessed this to your wife and asked her to be a part of the battle, I don\u2019t think you\u2019ll win the battle.\u201d\u00a0 Do you agree with that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>I agree because when you sin, sexually\u2014when you look at pornography\u2014that is a sin against your wife. You took vows to God and to your wife that you would have that kind of relationship with her alone. So, when you bring other women into the marriage bed\u2014even if they are just on the screen\u2014you\u2019ve sinned against your wife. You need to ask her forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that mistakes that guys often make\u2014when they do that\u2014is they go into too many details. They ask their wives to bear a load of information that they should not have to bear. Then, they also sort of get into some kind of weird relationship, where a wife becomes an accountability partner. A wife does not need to be the cop. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA wife needs to be a wife; but every wife, having heard a confession, needs to know that: \u201cHey, my husband has somebody in his life that does know all the details\u2014that is asking the hard questions\u2014that is getting the accountability reports. If I have any unanswered questions, I can go to that person.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And to that woman, Heath, who is, perhaps, suspicious that her husband has viewed pornography or is viewing pornography\u2014present tense\u2014what coaching would you have for her\u2014and what really could be a feeling of being betrayed, at that point?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Sure, well, I think two things. I think, first of all, that wife needs to speak to her husband. A suspicious wife\u2014you know, love believes the best. Love believes all things. We are supposed to extend the measure of judgment that we would like extended to us. So, we don\u2019t make judgments in suspicion. We make judgments in love. Yet, if we have these suspicions, we need to do something with them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I\u2019m encouraging women to go to their husband\u2014and without accusing\u2014if you\u2019ve got evidence, that\u2019s when we can accuse\u2014but if we are suspicious \/ we don\u2019t have evidence\u2014but we can say, \u201cHoney, I want us to be pursuing purity in our marriage together.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMaybe there are things that she has noticed. Maybe he\u2019s not shown sexual interest in her \/ maybe she sees things in the internet history that raise questions\u2014she could bring those things to him. Or she could say\u2014what we are all talking about: \u201cAll you have to do is spend the night in a hotel room, and this is there. All you have to do is walk in the mall, and this is\u2014you don\u2019t have to go looking for it. It\u2019s looking for you. And so, Honey, in this kind of culture, I would like you to have some accountability on your computer. I\u2019d like you to have some accountability on your smartphone. Could we find a couple at church\u2014and the husband in that couple would receive your accountability reports\u2014would know the password to the protections on the internet?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA husband\u2014who is pursuing godliness and who wants to honor his wife\u2014those should be easy requests to fulfill. If it would honor my wife to have accountability on the internet, well\u2014shoot\u2014I\u2019ll do it. If I don\u2019t have anything to hide\u2014why not?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tUnfortunately, a husband that gets defensive and pushes back hard against a suggestion like that\u2014is only raising your suspicions, not putting them at ease. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the second thing is\u2014depending on how your husband responds\u2014don\u2019t think you have to go this alone. Wives are called to honor their husbands, respect their husbands, and submit to their husbands. They do not have to prop up their husband\u2019s sin. You have to obey all the passages in the Bible that teach you how to be his wife, but you also have to obey all the passages in the Bible that teach you how to be his sister in Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou are allowed to go reach out for help from the church\u2014 other wise ladies \/ a pastor\u2014and get help so that you\u2019re not suffering with this alone if you have a situation where a husband just presses back hard against you. Some of the people I know that are in the most pain are suffering alone\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>\u2014because of a husband who is sinning against them. And that is not the alternative. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jim, any counsel you would give to a wife\u2014or anything that your wife did that was helpful?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Most important thing for us to understand was that this was something we could beat. The idea that we are perpetually in a battle\u2014that\u2019s unbearable. It\u2019s unbearable in a marriage\u2014sort of like I have a mistress\u2014only once a year. So, if you learn and you demonstrate that this is something you can overcome in your life and you have that victory, you don\u2019t have to be explicit with your wife saying \u201cthis.\u201d\u00a0 They see it. They know it. They understand. They read us like a book, and we cannot hide our sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if we are lusting\u2014if we\u2019re noticing things and looking in a way\u2014so, if they see that, they\u2019re not going to be satisfied with the fact that you have gotten rid of porn on your computer. They want, in you, a pure heart. And this is what we can achieve in Christ. This is the promise to be free from sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a joyous joint-undertaking in a marriage because that is where the fruit is born\u2014is the union within a marriage, and the sharing, and the fact that it is not being polluted by other things in the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m just reminded, as we\u2019re talking here today, that it takes God to turn a man and a woman into one\u2014two selfish, broken sinful human beings that desperately need the Lordship of Jesus Christ in their lives to be able to go the distance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the passage we read at the beginning is worth reading again, here at the end. Romans, Chapter 13, verse 14: \u201cBut put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh to gratify its desires.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s a great verse for every marriage. Submit to Christ\u2014put Him on \/ have the mind of Christ\u2014and make no provision for your selfishness\u2014no provision for lust.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tInstead, don\u2019t try to gratify those desires\u2014instead, try to please, in the power of the Holy Spirit\u2014please your Heavenly Father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I think for all of us to better understand the battle we\u2019re in, it would help to get a copy of Heath Lambert\u2019s book, <em>Finally Free: Fighting for Purity with the Power of Grace<\/em>. We\u2019ve got the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center, along with Jim Vander Spek\u2019s book, <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em>. You can find out more about both of these books when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order online if you\u2019d like. Again, <em>Finally Free<\/em> by Heath Lambert or <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em> by Jim Vander Spek\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order the books; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know\u2014this issue we have talked about today\u2014the issue of lust\u2014is a very real issue in a lot of marriages\u2014a lot of men and women doing battle with this issue\u2014some of them stumbling \/ some of them succeeding. Here, at FamilyLife, we want to provide resources. We want to provide help\u2014whether it is online through this daily radio program \/ through the resources we offer. We want to be an ally in helping you develop a godly strong marriage and family relationship. That\u2019s our mission: \u201cTo effectively develop godly marriages and families who change the world, one home at a time.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we\u2019re grateful for those of you who share that mission with us by helping to support this ministry\u2014those of you who give an occasional gift to help support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> or those of you who are Legacy Partners and make a monthly contribution to support this ministry. We\u2019re thankful that you join with us in the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a message from Dennis and Barbara Rainey about going all the way to the finish line together in marriage. This is a message that they gave at one of our <em>I Still Do<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup> marriage events a few years back. Dennis and Barbara talk about the challenging years in the early years of their marriage and how they had to lean into Christ in order to persevere through some very difficult times. The CD is our thank-you gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you go to FamilyLifeToday.com, click in the upper right-hand corner where it says, \u201cI CARE,\u201d and make an online donation; or you can request a copy of the CD when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY and make a donation by phone. You can also request the CD when you write a check and mail it to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. And our mailing address is P O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. And our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd with that, we\u2019ve got to wrap things up for this week. Thanks for being with us. Hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk with Scott Stanley, who has been researching marriage for more than two decades. Scott\u2019s been doing a lot of looking at what it is that causes couples to\u2014not just stay together\u2014but to enjoy being married to one another. We\u2019ll talk about marriage as a lasting promise on Monday. Hope you can tune in and join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303119","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303119"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303119"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303119"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303119"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303119"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303119"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303119"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}