{"id":303117,"date":"2014-07-10T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-07-10T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/winning-the-battle-over-lust\/"},"modified":"2014-07-10T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-07-10T15:00:00","slug":"winning-the-battle-over-lust","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/winning-the-battle-over-lust\/","title":{"rendered":"Winning the Battle Over Lust"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>You can overcome lust and find freedom with God&#8217;s help. Biblical counselor Heath Lambert and businessman Jim Vander Spek share their stories and how each of them dealt with lust in their own lives.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-10.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"28.67M","filesize_raw":"30065685","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2844,2827],"tags":[4497,2916,5375,4893],"podcast_series":[8022],"cwp_profile":[9344,9345],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303117","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-pornography","category-repentance","tag-coming-clean","tag-men","tag-pornography-addiction","tag-sexual-temptation","podcast_series-overcoming-lust","cwp_profile-heath-lambert","cwp_profile-jim-vander-spek","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303117\/winning-the-battle-over-lust","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303117\/winning-the-battle-over-lust","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"fC5qjcdc2t\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/winning-the-battle-over-lust\/\">Winning the Battle Over Lust<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/winning-the-battle-over-lust\/embed\/#?secret=fC5qjcdc2t\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Winning the Battle Over Lust&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"fC5qjcdc2t\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-10.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-10.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Contrary to what some people think, marriage is not a way to cure an issue with pornography. Heath Lambert says, \u201cThe cure for an issue with pornography is pursuing holiness in a relationship with Jesus.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>You\u2019re young. You want to be married. You are not ready to win the affections of a woman if you are nurturing pornography. So, don\u2019t be thinking about getting busy pursuing a girl. Be thinking about getting busy pursuing holiness, and Jesus, and deal with this problem so that it\u2019s a past-tense conversation that you are having. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, July 10<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. What can a young man do to keep his way pure\u2014or a young woman for that matter?\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about overcoming lust today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it occurs to me that the subject we\u2019re going to be talking about today\u2014we\u2019ve got some number of guys who are tuned-in listening. Last night, this was an issue for them. Last night, they\u2014after everybody had gone to bed\u2014they were checking something out on the computer or watching something on the TV, and nobody else knows about it. We\u2019re going to be talking about it today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there is also a number of women, who are listening right now, who are married to a man who struggles with this\u2014maybe single women dating a guy. They have no idea what a battle this is in his soul. And there is also another group, Bob, of moms and dads listening to us who are concerned for their sons and daughters about \u201cHow do you raise children to be innocent of evil in this culture?\u201d\u2014and especially around the subject of pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore I get started here, I just want to turn to our audience and just thank our Legacy Partners for making broadcasts like this possible. We have a number of folks who are monthly donors known as Legacy Partners to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You keep us coming strong on this station. I want you to know that we are grateful to God for your partnership. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to introduce a couple of gentlemen who have written some very penetrating books on this subject. Dr. Heath Lambert and Jim Vander Spek join us on the broadcast. Jim, Heath, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Thanks for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Yes, thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dr. Lambert is the Executive Director of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors. Did I get that right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>You got it right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s the largest biblical counseling agency in the world. You\u2019re in over 18 countries\u2014or actually have training centers in 18 countries. And you also part-time teach at The Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe is the Associate Professor of Biblical Counseling there. He has written a number of books, including the one we are going to talk about here called <em>Finally Free<\/em>. He and his wife Lauren have three children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim Vander Spek lives in Southern California, near San Diego. He is a CPA, a surfer, and an author of the book <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em>. He and his wife Marsha have two children, and he has six grandchildren. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I didn\u2019t know about the surfing part. Are you still an active surfer?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>I don\u2019t brag about my surfing. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Is that like the golf game?\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>I\u2019ve been laid prone. I\u2019m a body boarder now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, really?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 Jim, you begin your book talking about this subject of lust and pornography with your own story. Take us back to being a businessman in your 50\u2019s; right?\u2014when this finally was confronted in your life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>I was not in a position where I felt that pornography or any of these things were a big problem, but they were a big problem. Lust was a big problem in my marriage. It was an issue that I could not overcome. It\u2019s a progressive thing that\u2019s bad. Fortunately, it wasn\u2019t tragic; but it was causing real problems in our marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you trace it all the way back to when you were a boy or when you were a teenager?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Yes, I trace it back to a lack of teaching\u2014a lack of understanding. That\u2019s the purpose of my book\u2014is to increase understanding of lust itself. I think if anyone understands lust properly, they will learn that they can overcome it and that they don\u2019t have to be in bondage to it because it\u2019s not a mystery. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a lot of desire for people to live pure lives or free from certain symptoms of lust, but unless you go to the heart and remove lust\u2014crucify the flesh\u2014you do not become free from lust. That\u2019s the goal\u2014that\u2019s the promise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Describe for us: \u201cWhat was your pattern?\u201d and how it ultimately impacted your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>The pattern was that I would lust and try\u2014pretty much successfully\u2014but I would try to eliminate behavior. I really did not think that lust was something that I could overcome. That was not a goal that was ever presented to me as an achievable goal\u2014realistic goal. So, I didn\u2019t even attempt that. When you misunderstand that issue, you become vulnerable. So, I was vulnerable and sinned in a way that was unacceptable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, it came to a head\u2014as I write in my book\u2014with a group of people at our church. A close friend was caught up in pornography, and it actually ended his career. Together, with some other men there, we just started to understand, attack, and eliminate lust from our lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the problem with lust is\u2014once you become a slave to lust\u2014once it becomes a habit, you have a very difficult challenge to eliminate it from your life. It takes time. I don\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You can\u2019t flip a switch on this?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>No, you can\u2019t. It becomes enslavement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want you to unpack the word, lust. And Heath, I\u2019d like for you to take a pass at this as well because we\u2019re tossing around a word that I think we assume we all know the definition of it and we\u2019ve got a good grasp of what it means. I think that may be part of the problem. Heath, how would you define it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Well, lust, in biblical categories, is actually a very neutral term. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt just means to desire or want something; but in the sinful iteration of the use of the term, lust is when I want something that God says I can\u2019t have. So, I can lust for all kinds of things. I can lust for money. I can lust for position. I can lust for status. But when we talk about sexual lust, we\u2019re talking about \u201cI want, sexually, a person or persons that God says I can\u2019t have.\u201d\u00a0 That means I want, sexually, anybody other than my partner in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Jim?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>You know when I learned that I could resist lust\u2014I could deny lust in my heart\u2014I wanted to understand it and to describe it. So, I came up with a definition of lust that\u2019s a little bit complex: \u201cSexual lust\u2014the illicit sexual buzz is a willfully-allowed pleasurable gratification of wrongfully-directed sexual desire that takes place deep inside. It\u2019s what Jesus called adultery in the heart.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first thing\u2014\u201cwillfully-allowed\u201d\u2014lust is an action word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s not something that just happens to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou open a door here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>You open a door. It\u2019s willfully-allowed. It requires an action on your part to make it happen. The second thing is that it\u2019s pleasurable. Unlike other kinds of sins, there is an innate pleasure in lust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You talk about this in your book, and you call it a sexual buzz. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Yes. Yes, I call it an illicit sexual buzz. This is really the gratification part. So, when a person lusts, it is not so much that he is desiring something, or thinking something. It is that he is acting on that desire or that thought in order to gratify it internally with a sexual buzz. All of us are confronted with thoughts, desires, and temptations. Everyone has to decide whether or not they will take it to the point where they receive this illicit sexual buzz. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, if you take this definition of lust and you begin to apply that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and you say, \u201cWow, I crossed the line,\u201d\u2014well, what I found is that I was crossing the line all the time. It was not this thing I did late at night. It was going on 24\/7 in the thoughts, in the desires, in the things I was allowing my\u2014the pleasurable buzz that I was allowing. So, I was a slave to sin; and Jesus came to set people free from enslavement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Heath, let me ask you about\u2014because you talk about\u2014a little bit in your book\u2014about your own experience in this area. Outline for us where this was an issue for you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Yes, you know, it started for me when I was eight. A creepy uncle that I had gave me, and my brother, and my cousins a video cassette because he thought it\u2019d be just a great idea to expose these kids to this idea. I watched it. I watched it with my brother, and I was captivated by it. It was thrilling!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I hate to admit that; but it was\u2014as an eight year old\u2014I looked at that, and I was hypnotized by this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs hypnotized as I was, I knew\u2014your guilty conscience accuses you. Mine accused me. I knew, as an eight year old, that I should not be watching this. In our guilt and in our shame, as eight year olds, we destroyed the thing. But it was this weird thing\u2014because immediately after watching it, I felt guilty\u2014and immediately, after destroying it, I felt regret because I wanted to see it. This uncle, that I had, had ready access to them. So, every couple of years, I would be able to see it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, as a teenager, you still struggled with it growing up?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Yes, I did. In fact, it\u2019s\u2014the way I talk about it is I struggled a lot more with it than you would ever know by looking at my behavior because I didn\u2019t have access to it. So, if you just watched me\u2014from the time I was eight until the time I was, say eighteen, you wouldn\u2019t see me looking at pornography very much\u2014but I <em>wanted <\/em>it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOh, I <em>wanted<\/em> it. I would think about it. I mean, my heart was truly captivated by it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI became a Christian when I was 14, but this was a thing that was in my heart that I just would\u2014I just desired it. And just what happened was\u2014as I grew in my relationship with Jesus Christ, I grew in my revulsion of this problem. I just knew I had to have help. I knew it, and I didn\u2019t know how to do it. I\u2019ve got me and my friends\u2014everybody on our hall in college\u2014it was a Christian college\u2014you\u2019re talking about a seminary\u2014at a Christian college. We started to say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to meet together, and we\u2019re going to deal with this.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd me and my roommates\u2014the three of us\u2014it turned into the whole hall meeting once a week and praying about this. Then, we\u2019d split up into groups, and talk, and hold each other accountable; but we didn\u2019t know what we were doing. I mean, we were 19 years old. Everybody is in the same spot as everybody else. So, nobody had any wisdom to combat the collective ignorance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, all of them had been exposed to it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Yes. Oh, yes. All of them had been exposed to it. All of them were struggling in some degree. We were fortunate\u2014in the kindness of God\u2014that our college wouldn\u2019t let us have access to it; but everybody could get to it in some way or another. I just realized: \u201cI\u2019ve got to deal with this, and I\u2019ve got to have some more help than just the guys who are saying: \u2018Oh, we feel bad for you too. We\u2019re in the same boat.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was able to get in good accountability relationships and get good wisdom about how to deal with this problem at the level of the heart. I\u2019m so thankful that by the time I was 22 and entering into a relationship\u2014that would be the woman I married\u2014entering into a relationship with her\u2014the Lord had really changed my heart. But it was more than a decade of a struggle. It was a bigger struggle, again, than you would realize if you just watched me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And a lot of guys who are 19\/20\/21\/22 and struggling\u2014the thought that they have in the back of their mind is: \u201cWhen I find the girl I\u2019m going to marry and I\u2019m in a marriage relationship, and we\u2019re then able to have sexual relations, that will be the thing that will flip the switch for me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>It\u2019s the biggest lie any boy ever told himself because\u2014this is what we talked about lust a minute ago. Lust wants what God doesn\u2019t give me. That\u2019s what lust is. The logic of lust is: \u201cI want the next thing. As soon as you give me this thing, now, I\u2019m thinking about the next thing that I don\u2019t have.\u201d\u00a0 So, this is why guys\u2014that give themselves over to pornography\u2014and they think exactly what you\u2019re saying: \u201cI\u2019ll get married. That\u2019s my ticket\u2014that\u2019s my meal ticket to purity\u2014is a wife.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt will not work because you\u2019ll get your wife and you\u2019ll be thrilled with that for the honeymoon; but at some point, lust wants what it doesn\u2019t have. You\u2019ve got this woman now, and you\u2019re going to start looking for what you don\u2019t have sooner or later. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, at what point did you tell Lauren that you had had a problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou said when\u2014it sounds like it was a bit of a past history that you dealt with your lust in your heart and came into marriage. Did you share with her that you had had a problem earlier?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Yes, she knew about that. We\u2014I don\u2019t remember the exact time that we talked about it, but I just had real conviction that I did not want to go into marriage with this as a problem. I wanted to try and deal with it. So, when I talked with my wife Lauren about it, I was glad to be able to communicate what had been a problem but was not an ongoing difficulty. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I guess just about every boy who is getting married today needs to have some kind of conversation with his future bride about what has been or what still is an issue in his life; don\u2019t you think?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think he should\u2014and certainly, the future father-in-law needs to have a conversation with the young man as well. I say that because I think the hand-off in the wedding ceremony of\u2014when the pastor says, \u201cWho gives this woman to be married to this man?\u201d is more than just a symbolic \u201cHere\u2019s my daughter\u2019s hand. You now have the hand and her in marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re putting your blessing on the hand that receives your daughter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I think one of the great needs today is for daddies to be daddies in this\u2014talking to their sons, first of all, about these matters\u2014Jim, like you talked about\u2014and uncovering the reality of lust that every man deals with in some form or another. It may not be sexual lust\u2014may not be what trips a man up\u2014but every man has lust in his heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But if a dad sits down with a future son-in-law and the future son-in-law says: \u201cYes, I\u2019ve wrestled with this. Here is what I\u2019m doing. I\u2019ve got some accountability.\u201d I mean, that dad is going to walk away, going, \u201cHow do I know if this is safe or not?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, you\u2019ve got to ask a few specific questions and assume nothing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014like \u201cWhen was the last time?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. The question has to be\u2014there are two areas of responsibility here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first area of responsibility is with the boy who is pursuing the girl. And boy, I would say to young men, who are thinking about\u2014I mean\u2014\u201cYou are young. You want to be married. You are not ready to win the affections of a woman if you are nurturing pornography. So, don\u2019t be thinking about getting busy pursuing a girl. Be thinking about getting busy pursuing holiness, and Jesus, and deal with this problem so that it is a past tense conversation that you are having.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I remember an interview we had early on, Heath, where we\u2014Bob and I interviewed a woman\u2014as I recall, who wrote a book. In the book, she said, \u201cIn the marriage bed, there is not room for three.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, that sounds kind of crass; but a man who brings pornography into his marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Oh my goodness!\u2014multiple\u2014more than three\u2014many, many woman. I mean, just harems of women that you just bring right into the marriage bed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jim, let me ask you about your story. Did you think, when you got married, that would be the cure you needed for your lust issue?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>I did not really see the lust\u2014the way that I was expressing it\u2014as really evil. I created a set of rationales about what I was doing, and the way I was acting, and the way my heart was. Those rationales just stayed with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your rationalizations were things like: \u201cThis isn\u2019t hurting anybody else,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m not looking at it as much as other guys do,\u201d or what?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>There are many, many rationalizations that people give for lust, but one of them was that I was pretty much like everybody else. I had no evidence to prove that I wasn\u2019t. I had put myself in a position\u2014by continuing in lust \/by keeping these rationales\u2014that I became a slave to lust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the one who gives himself over to pornography, like Heath was saying, or any other level of lust\u2014and it doesn\u2019t have to be pornography\u2014it can be scaled way back from that. If they become a slave to lust, they have to rewire their brain \/ rewire their spiritual life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey can be free from lust. They don\u2019t need lust in their heart. It has no place in their heart and in their life. If they learn that, then, if they do lust, the Holy Spirit will convict them. They have an opportunity to please God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A key part of your life that ultimately resulted in you coming to grips with this and doing some business with God was Marsha became so frustrated with you and this subject that she gave you a book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Yes, as a matter of fact, it was Fred Stoeker, who was on your program many years ago. He wrote this book, <em>Every Man\u2019s Battle<\/em>. It was that book, really\u2014there was one quote in that book\u2014and he says that: \u201cSexual purity means that you are not receiving sexual gratification from anyone except your wife.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started realizing that this was something I could achieve; but I also realized, very soon, that it was not enough to deny lust. It\u2019s not enough to fight sin. The only way that you please God is by walking in the Spirit. You have to put off some things, and you have to put on some things. When you remove this part of your life, you\u2019ve created a void. You have to fill that void. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Now, this is where a Christian can deal with lust like no one else because they have the Holy Spirit. As they walk in the Spirit, they will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And Dennis, I think the theme we are hearing is that, if you are trying to address this issue in your life or in your marriage simply by exerting self-control or by trying to modify your behavior, you\u2019re fighting with one arm tied behind your back. You\u2019re going to fight it all your days. You really do have to get to the heart of this issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Ultimately, you\u2019ve got to agree with what God said about the subject. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeath, you mentioned earlier that lust is wanting something that God said you can\u2019t have. That really raises the issue: \u201cWhose will are you going to obey?\u2014your own will and your own desires?\u2014which is at the root of lust\u2014or are you going to fulfill God\u2019s will, which is clearly spelled out in Scripture when He talks about a man being satisfied with his wife and not lusting after others?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was Jesus who said: \u201cHe who looks upon a woman with lust in his heart has committed adultery with her already.\u201d\u00a0 So, there is the practical boundary we are talking about\u2014is realizing that\u2014and I like what you said, Jim, it\u2019s finding pleasure with your bride\u2014the woman God has given you\u2014and letting that be your sole point of sexual pleasure and gratification in a marriage relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Both of you men, I think, have provided some very practical help for all of us on this issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve written books\u2014Heath, you wrote a book called <em>Finally Free: Fighting for Purity with the Power of Grace<\/em>. Jim, you shared a lot about your own story in the book, <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em>. We\u2019ve got copies of both books in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Let me point our listeners to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, where they can get more information about both of these books. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d\u2014information there about the book, <em>Finally Free<\/em>, by Heath Lambert, and the book, <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em>, by Jim Vander Spek. You can order from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe ought to say this is a real issue\u2014a real challenge for a lot of married couples\u2014the issue we\u2019re are talking about today. And our commitment, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, is try to provide practical, biblical help every day that will strengthen your marriage and your family relationships to point you back to the Scriptures \/ to point you to Jesus Christ as the solution to the issues that you\u2019re facing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal, as a ministry, is to effectively develop godly marriages and families who change the world, one home at a time. Our belief is that when your marriage is transformed by the power of God\u2019s grace, that\u2019s going to have an impact on you, on your children, on your extended family, your church family, your neighborhood, and ultimately your community and our world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we appreciate those of you who partner with us in this endeavor. We could not do what we do without faithful friends like you who join with us and make occasional contributions or who join us as Legacy Partners\u2014making monthly commitments to help support this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate your partnership with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, if you can help with a donation, we\u2019d like to send you a copy of a message that Dennis and Barbara Rainey gave at one of our <em>I Still Do<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup> marriage events a few years ago\u2014a message that talks about the importance of permanence in marriage. We\u2019ll send you the CD as our way of saying, \u201cThank you for your financial support,\u201d when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and make an online donation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tClick the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cI CARE,\u201d and make your donation online. Or call 1-800- FL-TODAY. You can make your donation over the phone and request the CD from Dennis and Barbara Rainey. Or ask for the message, <em>I Still Do<\/em>, on CD when you write a check and mail it to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. The zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, don\u2019t forget that the <em>I Still Do<\/em> one-day marriage event for couples is coming to Chicago on Saturday, August 2<sup>nd<\/sup>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tagain, on Saturday, August 23<sup>rd<\/sup>, in Portland\u2014and then, Saturday, October 4<sup>th<\/sup>, in Washington, DC. There is information about how you can attend one of these upcoming events on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue our conversation about how men and women can win the fight for purity in their lives and in their marriages. We\u2019ll talk tomorrow with Heath Lambert and Jim Vander Spek again. Hope you can join us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. See you next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["28.67M"],"filesize_raw":["30065685"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303117.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303117.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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can overcome lust and find freedom with God's help. Biblical counselor Heath Lambert and businessman Jim Vander Spek share their stories and how each of them dealt with lust in their own lives.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-10.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Contrary to what some people think, marriage is not a way to cure an issue with pornography. Heath Lambert says, \u201cThe cure for an issue with pornography is pursuing holiness in a relationship with Jesus.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>You\u2019re young. You want to be married. You are not ready to win the affections of a woman if you are nurturing pornography. So, don\u2019t be thinking about getting busy pursuing a girl. Be thinking about getting busy pursuing holiness, and Jesus, and deal with this problem so that it\u2019s a past-tense conversation that you are having. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, July 10<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. What can a young man do to keep his way pure\u2014or a young woman for that matter?\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about overcoming lust today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it occurs to me that the subject we\u2019re going to be talking about today\u2014we\u2019ve got some number of guys who are tuned-in listening. Last night, this was an issue for them. Last night, they\u2014after everybody had gone to bed\u2014they were checking something out on the computer or watching something on the TV, and nobody else knows about it. We\u2019re going to be talking about it today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there is also a number of women, who are listening right now, who are married to a man who struggles with this\u2014maybe single women dating a guy. They have no idea what a battle this is in his soul. And there is also another group, Bob, of moms and dads listening to us who are concerned for their sons and daughters about \u201cHow do you raise children to be innocent of evil in this culture?\u201d\u2014and especially around the subject of pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore I get started here, I just want to turn to our audience and just thank our Legacy Partners for making broadcasts like this possible. We have a number of folks who are monthly donors known as Legacy Partners to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You keep us coming strong on this station. I want you to know that we are grateful to God for your partnership. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to introduce a couple of gentlemen who have written some very penetrating books on this subject. Dr. Heath Lambert and Jim Vander Spek join us on the broadcast. Jim, Heath, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Thanks for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Yes, thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dr. Lambert is the Executive Director of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors. Did I get that right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>You got it right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s the largest biblical counseling agency in the world. You\u2019re in over 18 countries\u2014or actually have training centers in 18 countries. And you also part-time teach at The Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe is the Associate Professor of Biblical Counseling there. He has written a number of books, including the one we are going to talk about here called <em>Finally Free<\/em>. He and his wife Lauren have three children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim Vander Spek lives in Southern California, near San Diego. He is a CPA, a surfer, and an author of the book <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em>. He and his wife Marsha have two children, and he has six grandchildren. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I didn\u2019t know about the surfing part. Are you still an active surfer?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>I don\u2019t brag about my surfing. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Is that like the golf game?\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>I\u2019ve been laid prone. I\u2019m a body boarder now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, really?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 Jim, you begin your book talking about this subject of lust and pornography with your own story. Take us back to being a businessman in your 50\u2019s; right?\u2014when this finally was confronted in your life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>I was not in a position where I felt that pornography or any of these things were a big problem, but they were a big problem. Lust was a big problem in my marriage. It was an issue that I could not overcome. It\u2019s a progressive thing that\u2019s bad. Fortunately, it wasn\u2019t tragic; but it was causing real problems in our marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you trace it all the way back to when you were a boy or when you were a teenager?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Yes, I trace it back to a lack of teaching\u2014a lack of understanding. That\u2019s the purpose of my book\u2014is to increase understanding of lust itself. I think if anyone understands lust properly, they will learn that they can overcome it and that they don\u2019t have to be in bondage to it because it\u2019s not a mystery. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a lot of desire for people to live pure lives or free from certain symptoms of lust, but unless you go to the heart and remove lust\u2014crucify the flesh\u2014you do not become free from lust. That\u2019s the goal\u2014that\u2019s the promise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Describe for us: \u201cWhat was your pattern?\u201d and how it ultimately impacted your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>The pattern was that I would lust and try\u2014pretty much successfully\u2014but I would try to eliminate behavior. I really did not think that lust was something that I could overcome. That was not a goal that was ever presented to me as an achievable goal\u2014realistic goal. So, I didn\u2019t even attempt that. When you misunderstand that issue, you become vulnerable. So, I was vulnerable and sinned in a way that was unacceptable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, it came to a head\u2014as I write in my book\u2014with a group of people at our church. A close friend was caught up in pornography, and it actually ended his career. Together, with some other men there, we just started to understand, attack, and eliminate lust from our lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the problem with lust is\u2014once you become a slave to lust\u2014once it becomes a habit, you have a very difficult challenge to eliminate it from your life. It takes time. I don\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You can\u2019t flip a switch on this?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>No, you can\u2019t. It becomes enslavement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want you to unpack the word, lust. And Heath, I\u2019d like for you to take a pass at this as well because we\u2019re tossing around a word that I think we assume we all know the definition of it and we\u2019ve got a good grasp of what it means. I think that may be part of the problem. Heath, how would you define it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Well, lust, in biblical categories, is actually a very neutral term. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt just means to desire or want something; but in the sinful iteration of the use of the term, lust is when I want something that God says I can\u2019t have. So, I can lust for all kinds of things. I can lust for money. I can lust for position. I can lust for status. But when we talk about sexual lust, we\u2019re talking about \u201cI want, sexually, a person or persons that God says I can\u2019t have.\u201d\u00a0 That means I want, sexually, anybody other than my partner in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Jim?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>You know when I learned that I could resist lust\u2014I could deny lust in my heart\u2014I wanted to understand it and to describe it. So, I came up with a definition of lust that\u2019s a little bit complex: \u201cSexual lust\u2014the illicit sexual buzz is a willfully-allowed pleasurable gratification of wrongfully-directed sexual desire that takes place deep inside. It\u2019s what Jesus called adultery in the heart.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first thing\u2014\u201cwillfully-allowed\u201d\u2014lust is an action word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s not something that just happens to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou open a door here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>You open a door. It\u2019s willfully-allowed. It requires an action on your part to make it happen. The second thing is that it\u2019s pleasurable. Unlike other kinds of sins, there is an innate pleasure in lust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You talk about this in your book, and you call it a sexual buzz. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Yes. Yes, I call it an illicit sexual buzz. This is really the gratification part. So, when a person lusts, it is not so much that he is desiring something, or thinking something. It is that he is acting on that desire or that thought in order to gratify it internally with a sexual buzz. All of us are confronted with thoughts, desires, and temptations. Everyone has to decide whether or not they will take it to the point where they receive this illicit sexual buzz. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, if you take this definition of lust and you begin to apply that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and you say, \u201cWow, I crossed the line,\u201d\u2014well, what I found is that I was crossing the line all the time. It was not this thing I did late at night. It was going on 24\/7 in the thoughts, in the desires, in the things I was allowing my\u2014the pleasurable buzz that I was allowing. So, I was a slave to sin; and Jesus came to set people free from enslavement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Heath, let me ask you about\u2014because you talk about\u2014a little bit in your book\u2014about your own experience in this area. Outline for us where this was an issue for you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Yes, you know, it started for me when I was eight. A creepy uncle that I had gave me, and my brother, and my cousins a video cassette because he thought it\u2019d be just a great idea to expose these kids to this idea. I watched it. I watched it with my brother, and I was captivated by it. It was thrilling!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I hate to admit that; but it was\u2014as an eight year old\u2014I looked at that, and I was hypnotized by this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs hypnotized as I was, I knew\u2014your guilty conscience accuses you. Mine accused me. I knew, as an eight year old, that I should not be watching this. In our guilt and in our shame, as eight year olds, we destroyed the thing. But it was this weird thing\u2014because immediately after watching it, I felt guilty\u2014and immediately, after destroying it, I felt regret because I wanted to see it. This uncle, that I had, had ready access to them. So, every couple of years, I would be able to see it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, as a teenager, you still struggled with it growing up?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Yes, I did. In fact, it\u2019s\u2014the way I talk about it is I struggled a lot more with it than you would ever know by looking at my behavior because I didn\u2019t have access to it. So, if you just watched me\u2014from the time I was eight until the time I was, say eighteen, you wouldn\u2019t see me looking at pornography very much\u2014but I <em>wanted <\/em>it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOh, I <em>wanted<\/em> it. I would think about it. I mean, my heart was truly captivated by it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI became a Christian when I was 14, but this was a thing that was in my heart that I just would\u2014I just desired it. And just what happened was\u2014as I grew in my relationship with Jesus Christ, I grew in my revulsion of this problem. I just knew I had to have help. I knew it, and I didn\u2019t know how to do it. I\u2019ve got me and my friends\u2014everybody on our hall in college\u2014it was a Christian college\u2014you\u2019re talking about a seminary\u2014at a Christian college. We started to say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to meet together, and we\u2019re going to deal with this.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd me and my roommates\u2014the three of us\u2014it turned into the whole hall meeting once a week and praying about this. Then, we\u2019d split up into groups, and talk, and hold each other accountable; but we didn\u2019t know what we were doing. I mean, we were 19 years old. Everybody is in the same spot as everybody else. So, nobody had any wisdom to combat the collective ignorance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, all of them had been exposed to it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Yes. Oh, yes. All of them had been exposed to it. All of them were struggling in some degree. We were fortunate\u2014in the kindness of God\u2014that our college wouldn\u2019t let us have access to it; but everybody could get to it in some way or another. I just realized: \u201cI\u2019ve got to deal with this, and I\u2019ve got to have some more help than just the guys who are saying: \u2018Oh, we feel bad for you too. We\u2019re in the same boat.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was able to get in good accountability relationships and get good wisdom about how to deal with this problem at the level of the heart. I\u2019m so thankful that by the time I was 22 and entering into a relationship\u2014that would be the woman I married\u2014entering into a relationship with her\u2014the Lord had really changed my heart. But it was more than a decade of a struggle. It was a bigger struggle, again, than you would realize if you just watched me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And a lot of guys who are 19\/20\/21\/22 and struggling\u2014the thought that they have in the back of their mind is: \u201cWhen I find the girl I\u2019m going to marry and I\u2019m in a marriage relationship, and we\u2019re then able to have sexual relations, that will be the thing that will flip the switch for me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>It\u2019s the biggest lie any boy ever told himself because\u2014this is what we talked about lust a minute ago. Lust wants what God doesn\u2019t give me. That\u2019s what lust is. The logic of lust is: \u201cI want the next thing. As soon as you give me this thing, now, I\u2019m thinking about the next thing that I don\u2019t have.\u201d\u00a0 So, this is why guys\u2014that give themselves over to pornography\u2014and they think exactly what you\u2019re saying: \u201cI\u2019ll get married. That\u2019s my ticket\u2014that\u2019s my meal ticket to purity\u2014is a wife.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt will not work because you\u2019ll get your wife and you\u2019ll be thrilled with that for the honeymoon; but at some point, lust wants what it doesn\u2019t have. You\u2019ve got this woman now, and you\u2019re going to start looking for what you don\u2019t have sooner or later. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, at what point did you tell Lauren that you had had a problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou said when\u2014it sounds like it was a bit of a past history that you dealt with your lust in your heart and came into marriage. Did you share with her that you had had a problem earlier?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Yes, she knew about that. We\u2014I don\u2019t remember the exact time that we talked about it, but I just had real conviction that I did not want to go into marriage with this as a problem. I wanted to try and deal with it. So, when I talked with my wife Lauren about it, I was glad to be able to communicate what had been a problem but was not an ongoing difficulty. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I guess just about every boy who is getting married today needs to have some kind of conversation with his future bride about what has been or what still is an issue in his life; don\u2019t you think?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think he should\u2014and certainly, the future father-in-law needs to have a conversation with the young man as well. I say that because I think the hand-off in the wedding ceremony of\u2014when the pastor says, \u201cWho gives this woman to be married to this man?\u201d is more than just a symbolic \u201cHere\u2019s my daughter\u2019s hand. You now have the hand and her in marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re putting your blessing on the hand that receives your daughter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I think one of the great needs today is for daddies to be daddies in this\u2014talking to their sons, first of all, about these matters\u2014Jim, like you talked about\u2014and uncovering the reality of lust that every man deals with in some form or another. It may not be sexual lust\u2014may not be what trips a man up\u2014but every man has lust in his heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But if a dad sits down with a future son-in-law and the future son-in-law says: \u201cYes, I\u2019ve wrestled with this. Here is what I\u2019m doing. I\u2019ve got some accountability.\u201d I mean, that dad is going to walk away, going, \u201cHow do I know if this is safe or not?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, you\u2019ve got to ask a few specific questions and assume nothing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014like \u201cWhen was the last time?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. The question has to be\u2014there are two areas of responsibility here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first area of responsibility is with the boy who is pursuing the girl. And boy, I would say to young men, who are thinking about\u2014I mean\u2014\u201cYou are young. You want to be married. You are not ready to win the affections of a woman if you are nurturing pornography. So, don\u2019t be thinking about getting busy pursuing a girl. Be thinking about getting busy pursuing holiness, and Jesus, and deal with this problem so that it is a past tense conversation that you are having.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I remember an interview we had early on, Heath, where we\u2014Bob and I interviewed a woman\u2014as I recall, who wrote a book. In the book, she said, \u201cIn the marriage bed, there is not room for three.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, that sounds kind of crass; but a man who brings pornography into his marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heath: <\/strong>Oh my goodness!\u2014multiple\u2014more than three\u2014many, many woman. I mean, just harems of women that you just bring right into the marriage bed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jim, let me ask you about your story. Did you think, when you got married, that would be the cure you needed for your lust issue?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>I did not really see the lust\u2014the way that I was expressing it\u2014as really evil. I created a set of rationales about what I was doing, and the way I was acting, and the way my heart was. Those rationales just stayed with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your rationalizations were things like: \u201cThis isn\u2019t hurting anybody else,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m not looking at it as much as other guys do,\u201d or what?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>There are many, many rationalizations that people give for lust, but one of them was that I was pretty much like everybody else. I had no evidence to prove that I wasn\u2019t. I had put myself in a position\u2014by continuing in lust \/by keeping these rationales\u2014that I became a slave to lust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the one who gives himself over to pornography, like Heath was saying, or any other level of lust\u2014and it doesn\u2019t have to be pornography\u2014it can be scaled way back from that. If they become a slave to lust, they have to rewire their brain \/ rewire their spiritual life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey can be free from lust. They don\u2019t need lust in their heart. It has no place in their heart and in their life. If they learn that, then, if they do lust, the Holy Spirit will convict them. They have an opportunity to please God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A key part of your life that ultimately resulted in you coming to grips with this and doing some business with God was Marsha became so frustrated with you and this subject that she gave you a book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Yes, as a matter of fact, it was Fred Stoeker, who was on your program many years ago. He wrote this book, <em>Every Man\u2019s Battle<\/em>. It was that book, really\u2014there was one quote in that book\u2014and he says that: \u201cSexual purity means that you are not receiving sexual gratification from anyone except your wife.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started realizing that this was something I could achieve; but I also realized, very soon, that it was not enough to deny lust. It\u2019s not enough to fight sin. The only way that you please God is by walking in the Spirit. You have to put off some things, and you have to put on some things. When you remove this part of your life, you\u2019ve created a void. You have to fill that void. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim: <\/strong>Now, this is where a Christian can deal with lust like no one else because they have the Holy Spirit. As they walk in the Spirit, they will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And Dennis, I think the theme we are hearing is that, if you are trying to address this issue in your life or in your marriage simply by exerting self-control or by trying to modify your behavior, you\u2019re fighting with one arm tied behind your back. You\u2019re going to fight it all your days. You really do have to get to the heart of this issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Ultimately, you\u2019ve got to agree with what God said about the subject. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeath, you mentioned earlier that lust is wanting something that God said you can\u2019t have. That really raises the issue: \u201cWhose will are you going to obey?\u2014your own will and your own desires?\u2014which is at the root of lust\u2014or are you going to fulfill God\u2019s will, which is clearly spelled out in Scripture when He talks about a man being satisfied with his wife and not lusting after others?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was Jesus who said: \u201cHe who looks upon a woman with lust in his heart has committed adultery with her already.\u201d\u00a0 So, there is the practical boundary we are talking about\u2014is realizing that\u2014and I like what you said, Jim, it\u2019s finding pleasure with your bride\u2014the woman God has given you\u2014and letting that be your sole point of sexual pleasure and gratification in a marriage relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Both of you men, I think, have provided some very practical help for all of us on this issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve written books\u2014Heath, you wrote a book called <em>Finally Free: Fighting for Purity with the Power of Grace<\/em>. Jim, you shared a lot about your own story in the book, <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em>. We\u2019ve got copies of both books in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Let me point our listeners to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, where they can get more information about both of these books. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cGO DEEPER,\u201d\u2014information there about the book, <em>Finally Free<\/em>, by Heath Lambert, and the book, <em>Overcoming Lust<\/em>, by Jim Vander Spek. You can order from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe ought to say this is a real issue\u2014a real challenge for a lot of married couples\u2014the issue we\u2019re are talking about today. And our commitment, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, is try to provide practical, biblical help every day that will strengthen your marriage and your family relationships to point you back to the Scriptures \/ to point you to Jesus Christ as the solution to the issues that you\u2019re facing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal, as a ministry, is to effectively develop godly marriages and families who change the world, one home at a time. Our belief is that when your marriage is transformed by the power of God\u2019s grace, that\u2019s going to have an impact on you, on your children, on your extended family, your church family, your neighborhood, and ultimately your community and our world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we appreciate those of you who partner with us in this endeavor. We could not do what we do without faithful friends like you who join with us and make occasional contributions or who join us as Legacy Partners\u2014making monthly commitments to help support this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate your partnership with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, if you can help with a donation, we\u2019d like to send you a copy of a message that Dennis and Barbara Rainey gave at one of our <em>I Still Do<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup> marriage events a few years ago\u2014a message that talks about the importance of permanence in marriage. We\u2019ll send you the CD as our way of saying, \u201cThank you for your financial support,\u201d when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and make an online donation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tClick the link at the top of the page that says, \u201cI CARE,\u201d and make your donation online. Or call 1-800- FL-TODAY. You can make your donation over the phone and request the CD from Dennis and Barbara Rainey. Or ask for the message, <em>I Still Do<\/em>, on CD when you write a check and mail it to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. The zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, don\u2019t forget that the <em>I Still Do<\/em> one-day marriage event for couples is coming to Chicago on Saturday, August 2<sup>nd<\/sup>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tagain, on Saturday, August 23<sup>rd<\/sup>, in Portland\u2014and then, Saturday, October 4<sup>th<\/sup>, in Washington, DC. There is information about how you can attend one of these upcoming events on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue our conversation about how men and women can win the fight for purity in their lives and in their marriages. We\u2019ll talk tomorrow with Heath Lambert and Jim Vander Spek again. Hope you can join us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. See you next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303117","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303117"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303117"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303117"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303117"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303117"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303117"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303117"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}