{"id":303105,"date":"2014-07-02T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-07-02T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/surviving-it-god-wants-to-heal-you\/"},"modified":"2014-07-02T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-07-02T15:00:00","slug":"surviving-it-god-wants-to-heal-you","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/surviving-it-god-wants-to-heal-you\/","title":{"rendered":"Surviving It:  God Wants to Heal You"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>God cares about your relationships.  Christian counselor Leslie Vernick tells how God healed the emotional wounds caused by her mother and tells others how to survive an abusive relationship.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-02.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.2M","filesize_raw":"23283253","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2873],"tags":[2949,4647,4197,5366,5333],"podcast_series":[7719],"cwp_profile":[3229],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303105","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-abuse","tag-emotional","tag-healing","tag-protection","tag-restoration","podcast_series-the-emotionally-destructive-relationship","cwp_profile-leslie-vernick","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303105\/surviving-it-god-wants-to-heal-you","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303105\/surviving-it-god-wants-to-heal-you","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"eDHf6IThIT\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/surviving-it-god-wants-to-heal-you\/\">Surviving It:  God Wants to Heal You<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/surviving-it-god-wants-to-heal-you\/embed\/#?secret=eDHf6IThIT\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Surviving It:  God Wants to Heal You&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"eDHf6IThIT\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-02.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-02.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You tried to patch it up as you grew up, but she did not seem responsive to your efforts to try to heal the relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> No, I tried to go to her and share with her what she has done to hurt me, and she just put it all on me as I was this awful kid and did everything wrong. So, it was really difficult because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014in order for me to own my own problem, I had to begin to understand what my part was and not so much my part in her abusing me. I didn\u2019t cause that. That was her problem.\u00a0 But what I was focusing on was trying to get her to change.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was trying to get her to stop drinking.\u00a0 I was trying to get her to go to the doctor for some medication. I was trying to get her to be a better grandmother to my children. But no matter what I did\u2014whether I talked to her, whether I was nice to her, whether I confronted her, whether I cried in front of her\u2014nothing I did made any impact on her.\u00a0 So, I began to say, \u201cWhat is my problem here? I can\u2019t change her. That\u2019s her problem.\u00a0 My problem is\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, before you move to your problem\u2014is it just that people, at that point, have got a hard heart; and they refuse to hear the truth about themselves?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause I shared a bit earlier this week about my own relationship with a person where I was being abused by emotionally in a relationship\u2014I kept absorbing it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and trying to do what was right by me; but it was like they could never hear that there was anything wrong with them in the way this person is relating to me. Is that because of a hardened heart? Is it because of an evil heart?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It can be a number of things:\u00a0 a proud heart, an evil heart, a fearful heart. There can be lots of different reasons why we won\u2019t hear.\u00a0 The Bible calls it blindness\u2014that we have 20\/20 vision for the problems in another person, but we cannot be internal or introspective. We cannot see or own our own sins; and because of that, it makes a relationship with someone\u2014a healthy relationship with someone impossible, because we all hurt each other sometimes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, that\u2018s really important for us to be able to look at that; and when someone says I am really hurt by what you did or really offended by what you did, to take some responsibility. And so, this person you try to talk to couldn\u2019t do that\u2014they couldn\u2019t see it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Is there such a person who does not have the competency to establish a relationship? In other words, they just don\u2019t know how.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey don\u2019t know how to have any kind of healthy, meaningful relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I imagine that there are people like that who have been so wounded or damaged in their early years that they don\u2019t know how to do that. That doesn\u2019t necessarily mean that we have to have a relationship with them. It might mean that we do minister to them with a much more tolerant and forbearing and forgiving spirit understanding their limitations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And in your mom\u2019s case?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Well, in my mom\u2019s case, I mean she does have a strong history of not having great relationships. She was the sixth child of an overworked mom and dad. Her mother went into the hospital after her birth and had postpartum depression and never came out\u2014never!\u00a0 In growing up, I never knew I had a grandmother. She was raised by her older sister who did not want to raise her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I certainly can understand, now, as an adult some of my mom\u2019s history as to why she wasn\u2019t capable of being a good mother\u2014why she wanted to drink her life away, all those kind of things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut in that 15 year hiatus when I didn\u2019t see her or speak to her, I had to give up trying to change her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and I had to look at myself and what was my problem. My problem was I wanted a mother, and I wasn\u2019t getting the mother I wanted. My problem was I was bitter and resentful that she wasn\u2019t willing to change.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd as I began to heal myself and get healthier with the Lord and let His words define me, then, her words lost their potency over my life, and I wasn\u2019t nearly afraid of her anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want to talk for a moment about the bitterness and the issue of ultimately forgiving them. A number of years ago, I wrote a book about honoring your parents called <em>The Best Gift You Will Ever Give Your Parents<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI talked about three gifts you can give your parents: the gift of understanding, which you just modeled. You talked about the home your mom grew up in and her circumstances that surrounded her life that contributed to the woman she became. So, there is understanding. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecondly, the gift of compassion\u2014beginning to see them as a real person with hurts and needs and needing mercy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and needing someone who cares about them. Then, finally, the gift of forgiveness\u2014realizing you\u2018ve got to let go of the hurt, the hatred, the bitterness and all the ways they\u2019ve disappointed you and giving up the right of punishment. At that point, your soul can be clean and cleared.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>And freed!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, out of the prison! You think your letting your parents out of the prison. In essence, what you do is you let yourself out of the prison by forgiving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You spent a season where you stepped back from your relationship with your mom; and in that season, God did some work in your own heart, didn\u2019t He?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. During those 15 years, I just wasn\u2019t passive and just saying, \u201cOh well, that\u2019s her problem. I am just going to be bitter and resentful.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOver those 15 years, I did the work that I needed to do to let go of it\u2014to not contact her anymore, to forgive her mistreatment, to show compassion for her history and understanding that had I been in her shoes I might not have done much better. So, I really began to see that I had no right to judge her. It still didn\u2019t make me want\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014to have any time to spend in her presence, but I wasn\u2019t going to be bitter or resentful anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I don\u2019t want to encourage people to be na\u00efve, but I think you\u2019re on to something.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we begin to see in someone else the kind of damage that you\u2019ve described\u2014that you\u2019re mom experienced\u2014and we can see that with eyes of compassion instead of eyes of anger, that\u2019s a huge shift in our own heart because our response is less the protective response; and now, it\u2019s the more loving response to say, \u201cI want to help.\u201d And wanting to help, in your case, meant \u201cI need to stay away for awhile until I\u2019m strong enough to help.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Absolutely!\u00a0 I needed to stay away until she didn\u2019t keep pushing my buttons because I couldn\u2019t change her. She was going to push my buttons. She was going to say the things she always said. She was going to do the things she always did. My goal, then, was to not react the same way I use to. And through that process of not reacting to her and not letting her push my buttons, an amazing thing happened to my mother.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe began to soften as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, it was a tremendous lesson to me in life\u2014that as I got healthier I could invite her into healthier change, and she began to get healthier. The last year of her life she was dying, but she was the healthiest most alive she had ever been. It was an amazing thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019ve talked about taking a step back and removing yourself from being abused. So, you got some distance there where your head could clear and your emotions could settle down. What are other steps that need to be taken so a person can survive an abusive relationship? I mean we are talking about, probably, some spouses right now who are listening to this broadcast where they\u2019re in relationships that are daily\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, what do you do if things don\u2019t change? I mean you\u2019re trying to get healthier, but the emotionally destructive patterns are there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Now, let\u2019s be real. There are many people who are in that kind of marriage who cannot leave or don\u2019t choose to for a variety of reasons\u2014some good reasons and some bad reasons. So, they\u2019re with this person, and they see them daily.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not like they can really step back physically.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I love the story of Abigail in the Old Testament because she is the woman who is in an emotionally and probably physically abusive relationship. Her husband is described as a surly, nasty man. And David was trying to get Nabel and his men to honor him by feeding his men because he had protected Nabel\u2019s sheep and his men during a season.\u00a0 Nabel was just greedy and selfish and arrogant and wouldn\u2019t do it.\u00a0 And he so enraged David that David threatened to massacre all the males in Nabel\u2019s household.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe servants knew that Abigail had a clear head. She was not a woman who was intimidated by this destructive man. The Scriptures describe her as a beautiful and intelligent woman\u2014and I have often pondered her: How did she stay healthy in this unhealthy relationship?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that was key for Abigail was that she didn\u2019t live in fantasy. I think if we are going to get healthy and live through an emotionally destructive relationship, we have to face reality.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that may be that our marriage isn\u2019t getting better\u2014that our spouse isn\u2019t going to change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen she went to David, she said, \u201cMy husband is a fool.\u201d She didn\u2019t make excuses for him, but she also said put the blame on me. She was a noble woman and was willing to take responsibility before David.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I think that facing reality, grieving your losses, understanding who God says you are is the major component of healing because identity is always formed in a relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love the verse in Psalm 86:5 where it says, \u201cO Lord, you are so good, so ready to forgive, and so full of unfailing love to all who ask for your help.\u201d That is who God is. If we can begin to get a picture of Him and of His love for us, that can begin to heal our damaged sense of self.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want to go back to your relationship with your mom. You said you forgave her.\u00a0 Did you tell her that you forgave her, and did you name the way that she had harmed you or had damaged you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No, I never did because when I had tried to tell her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that she had harmed and damaged me, she wasn\u2019t healthy enough to hear it back those 15 years before that. And during her siege with lung cancer, I just didn\u2019t think she was any healthier than she had been back then. She had stopped drinking, but I didn\u2019t think that that was a good thing. I just had forgiven her, and it showed in my behavior toward her. She could sense that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember that one Mother\u2019s Day\u2014it was the only Mother\u2019s Day I remember spending with her as an adult, and I was visiting with her, my brother, and my sister. She turned to us and she said, \u201cI don\u2019t deserve this. I don\u2019t deserve this. This is the best Mother\u2019s Day I have ever had.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, she knew, but she could never say it. She could just tell that in our actions toward her it was pure grace. She didn\u2019t deserve our care, she didn\u2019t deserve our love, she didn\u2019t deserve our mercy; but we gave it to her because God had given it to us, and we gave it to her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the neatest thing about the story is she soaked it up like a dry sponge\u2014because a lot of people won\u2019t accept that. They\u2019re too proud, or they\u2019re too shamed. So, they\u2019ll reject it because they don\u2019t want to receive someone\u2019s care because they didn\u2019t deserve it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, I wonder right now if we are speaking to a person who\u2019s in a relationship\u2014maybe it\u2019s like you and your mom\u2014maybe they haven\u2019t spoken to one another in months, years, a decade or more; and they have lost hope that there will ever be any kind of reasonable reconciliation or a relationship of any kind. What I just heard you say is you never know what God will do in those final moments of a person\u2019s life\u2014if you just hang in there with an authentic love but a love that has its boundaries.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Absolutely! That\u2019s why when I am counseling someone I always tell them do what you are supposed to do right now. You can\u2019t control what is going to happen in the future. So, just\u2014you work on you. You get healthy. You get ready because if the person ever comes to a place where they can repent\u2014or they can begin to see their blind spots\u2014you don\u2019t want to be so full of anger and bitterness\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that you can\u2019t, then, do what God is going to ask you to do.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if you get your part ready\u2014you don\u2019t have to worry about God\u2019s part or their part.\u00a0 You just get your part ready. If God ever orchestrates the reunion of an opportunity to talk about those things again\u2014and I remember my mother laying on the hospital bed in my family room\u2014the hospice nurse was on one side giving her a bath\u2014she turned to me, she held my hand, and she said, \u201cI am sorry.\u00a0 I never knew how to love my children.\u201d That was the only apology that I ever got, but it was huge.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHad we not had those good months before that, I don\u2019t think she would have been healthy enough to be able to say that. So, God gave me a wonderful gift at the end which I never expected.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You had\u2014prior to your time with your mom\u2014you had this storehouse full of painful memories, hurt, shame.\u00a0 It\u2019s not like those memories are now gone.\u00a0 You still know the events. You can still talk about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014getting pushed down the back stairs or about being swung at by your mom.\u00a0 So, what\u2019s the difference?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>The difference is there is no emotional charge to it anymore. The emotional charge of shame or hatred or bitterness\u2014that is all gone because I have been able to work through it, and I don\u2019t feel the pain of it anymore. I can say it, as a fact; but it doesn\u2019t hold the emotional charge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Where did it go? Where did the pain go?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> The pain went into the arms of Christ. You know He takes our pain\u2014by His stripes, we\u2019re healed. It says in Psalm 107:20, \u201cBy His word, He healed them.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not just the Word of God\u2014which I really believe in\u2014but it\u2019s the presence of God because the word became flesh. So, as we sit in God\u2019s presence and we allow Him to speak to our hearts and nourish our hearts and minister to our hearts\u2014and there are times when we don\u2019t even know what He is doing we are just being still. \u201cBe still and know that I am God.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believe that God does affirm us, heal us, and restore us. He doesn\u2019t just redeem us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe restores us, so that we might be all that He wants us to be\u2014including the cracks.\u00a0 He doesn\u2019t take them all away. He just heals them so He can use them for His glory.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, this isn\u2019t just you painting with a rosy brush the sewage. This isn\u2019t just you denying that there ever was pain there. There\u2019s been a process whereby something redemptive has happened.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes! I really encourage people\u2014because this is 15 years and I\u2019m a Christian counselor\u2014it took me a long time. I really encourage people with the process because it\u2019s not\u2014and I feel so badly for people who are given the counseling through their church of you just have to forgive and forget and get back together. It just doesn\u2019t happen that fast.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we really need to let people sit and work through the things that they need to work through it so that there\u2019s genuine change and real redemptive healing takes place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We talked a bit earlier about Romans, Chapter 12, verse 18. I want to read it again; but then, I want to read to the end of the chapter and make a point here.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt says, \u201cIf possible so far as it depends on you\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201clive peaceably with all.\u201d And just a comment about this\u2014I love this scripture because it\u2019s so reasonable. It recognizes there are going to be relationships where peace doesn\u2019t occur. So, you know what? Do your part but don\u2019t do their part, too. Then, in verse 19, it says \u201cBeloved, never avenge your selves but leave it to the wrath of God. For it is written, vengeance is mine. I will repay says the Lord.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll just tell you. In this relationship that I\u2019ve shared about that has gone on for 20 years where I feel like I was abused, I finally had to take a step back and then take a friend with me when I re-engaged that relationship. I could tell when I had finally forgiven and had given up the right to punish the other person\u2014was when I would read this passage here, \u201cBeloved, leave room for the wrath of God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, this person is somebody I still love. I don\u2019t want them to experience the wrath of God because the ultimate wrath is a Christ-less eternity in Hell. I don\u2019t want this person to experience that. I want them to know the God of hope, the God of grace, the God of mercy, and the God of forgiveness that I know Who has worked in my life and given me freedom to be able to relate to that person. I think we can know if we have forgiven by how we pray for that other person.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, finally, this passage concludes. It says, \u201cTo the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he\u2019s thirsty, give him something to drink. For by doing so, you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Scripture is so simple sometimes. I just wish it was easy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Laughter]\u2014because I am so human. I get entangled with my own emotions, my own wrong perspective, my own lack of belief in God and His word. And here God lays it out pretty simple.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> You know, and the Bible tells us\u2014and Peter tells us that Satan\u2019s a roaring lion who seeks to devour us. So, sometimes, he might use another person\u2014that destructive person to try to destroy us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s really important that we understand that our enemy isn\u2019t always the other person.\u00a0 They may feel like the enemy, but our real true enemy spiritually is Satan. He wants us to be overcome by evil. So, when someone is evil toward us\u2014when they are destructive toward us, the most tempting thing and the most natural thing is for us to be overcome by that; and then, we start being evil back\u2014either by retaliating or being bitter or being unforgiving or by letting it crush our spirit.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, God is saying that we have work to do when we are in the presence of an evil person, and that is to not let it overcome us. We need to\u2014just like if you were going to go in an environment where there is hazardous waste material or there\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014nuclear rays going out, you put on a hazmat suit. You do something to guard yourself, to protect yourself.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod says we need to put that spiritual armor on especially when we are in the presence of toxic people or negative people all the time\u2014to protect ourselves so that we are not overcome by evil, but we can overcome evil with good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, Leslie you\u2019ve done a great job here of bringing your practical experience, not only as a counselor, but being real and talking about a tough relationship with your mom\u2014and really helping us understand as individuals how we can begin to pay attention to how we\u2019ve been abused; then, release the anger and the resentment by forgiving; and then, finally, survive it by loving in return with boundaries.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just appreciate you being on the broadcast, and I hope you\u2019ll come back and join us again sometime.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> I\u2019d love to do that. Thanks for having me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think there are going to be a lot of people who, not only who have benefitted from what we\u2019ve talked about this week, but who are going to benefit as they get a copy of your book, <em>The Emotionally Destructive Relationship:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Seeing It, Stopping It, Surviving It<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had the opportunity, a number of months ago, to give a copy of the book to a young person I know who is in a relationship where I was concerned about what was going on; and I thought, \u201cI think you need to read this and just see \u2018Are these patterns present in your relationship?\u2019\u201d And this person got back in touch with me and said, \u201cThe book really nailed what I\u2019m going through, and it was really helpful.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, it may be a relationship you are in or you may know somebody who is in one of these kinds of emotionally challenging relationships\u2014get a copy of Leslie Vernick\u2019s book. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click in the upper left-hand corner where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can order the book from us online if you\u2019d like\u2014that\u2019s <em>The Emotionally Destructive Relationship<\/em> by Leslie Vernick.\u00a0 Order at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order.\u00a0 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number\u20141-800-358-6329.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Well, as we head into the second half of 2014, there is a lot ahead of us here at FamilyLife. We have our <em>I Still Do<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup>, one-day marriage celebrations coming up.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAbout a month from now, we\u2019ll be in Chicago for <em>I Still Do<\/em> at the Allstate Arena on August 2<sup>nd<\/sup>\u2014Saturday, August 2<sup>nd<\/sup>; then, the Moda Center in Portland, August 23<sup>rd<\/sup>; and then, we\u2019ll be at the MCI Center in Washington, D.C. on Saturday, October 4<sup>th<\/sup>. These events are designed to help equip couples to strengthen their core commitment to one another in marriage, to have emotionally healthy relationships.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd along with <em>I Still Do<\/em>, of course, we have FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaways happening this fall. We\u2019re working on new resources will be sharing with you throughout the fall. It\u2019s just a busy season for us here at FamilyLife.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to say thank you to the listeners who enable all that happens here at FamilyLife to happen. Without your support, we couldn\u2019t produce this radio program, our website, our mobile apps\u2014all of that would not be possible if we didn\u2019t have listeners like you who call or went online or mailed a donation to help support this ministry. We depend on those donations, and we appreciate those of you who have a heart like we have for seeing every home become a godly home.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to make a donation this week, we\u2019d love to send you the <em>FamilyLife Bible Study for Couples<\/em>. It\u2019s a study guide designed for husbands and wives to go through it together; or you can go through it with a small group. It\u2019s our gift to you this week when you support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com and click in the upper right-hand corner of the homepage where it says, \u201cI CARE.\u201d You can make an online donation there; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014make a donation over the phone. Be sure to request the <em>Bible Study for Couples<\/em> when you do that. Or make your request for the Bible study\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014when mail a check to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at Box 7111, Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 Our zip code is 72223.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about a new animated video series for children called <em>Iesodo<\/em>. It\u2019s a series that introduces them to Jesus in a very creative way, and we\u2019ll hear more about it tomorrow. Hope you can join us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. See you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.2M"],"filesize_raw":["23283253"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303105.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303105.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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cares about your relationships. Christian counselor Leslie Vernick tells how God healed the emotional wounds caused by her mother and tells others how to survive an abusive relationship.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-07-02.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You tried to patch it up as you grew up, but she did not seem responsive to your efforts to try to heal the relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> No, I tried to go to her and share with her what she has done to hurt me, and she just put it all on me as I was this awful kid and did everything wrong. So, it was really difficult because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014in order for me to own my own problem, I had to begin to understand what my part was and not so much my part in her abusing me. I didn\u2019t cause that. That was her problem.\u00a0 But what I was focusing on was trying to get her to change.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was trying to get her to stop drinking.\u00a0 I was trying to get her to go to the doctor for some medication. I was trying to get her to be a better grandmother to my children. But no matter what I did\u2014whether I talked to her, whether I was nice to her, whether I confronted her, whether I cried in front of her\u2014nothing I did made any impact on her.\u00a0 So, I began to say, \u201cWhat is my problem here? I can\u2019t change her. That\u2019s her problem.\u00a0 My problem is\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, before you move to your problem\u2014is it just that people, at that point, have got a hard heart; and they refuse to hear the truth about themselves?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause I shared a bit earlier this week about my own relationship with a person where I was being abused by emotionally in a relationship\u2014I kept absorbing it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and trying to do what was right by me; but it was like they could never hear that there was anything wrong with them in the way this person is relating to me. Is that because of a hardened heart? Is it because of an evil heart?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>It can be a number of things:\u00a0 a proud heart, an evil heart, a fearful heart. There can be lots of different reasons why we won\u2019t hear.\u00a0 The Bible calls it blindness\u2014that we have 20\/20 vision for the problems in another person, but we cannot be internal or introspective. We cannot see or own our own sins; and because of that, it makes a relationship with someone\u2014a healthy relationship with someone impossible, because we all hurt each other sometimes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, that\u2018s really important for us to be able to look at that; and when someone says I am really hurt by what you did or really offended by what you did, to take some responsibility. And so, this person you try to talk to couldn\u2019t do that\u2014they couldn\u2019t see it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Is there such a person who does not have the competency to establish a relationship? In other words, they just don\u2019t know how.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey don\u2019t know how to have any kind of healthy, meaningful relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>I imagine that there are people like that who have been so wounded or damaged in their early years that they don\u2019t know how to do that. That doesn\u2019t necessarily mean that we have to have a relationship with them. It might mean that we do minister to them with a much more tolerant and forbearing and forgiving spirit understanding their limitations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And in your mom\u2019s case?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Well, in my mom\u2019s case, I mean she does have a strong history of not having great relationships. She was the sixth child of an overworked mom and dad. Her mother went into the hospital after her birth and had postpartum depression and never came out\u2014never!\u00a0 In growing up, I never knew I had a grandmother. She was raised by her older sister who did not want to raise her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I certainly can understand, now, as an adult some of my mom\u2019s history as to why she wasn\u2019t capable of being a good mother\u2014why she wanted to drink her life away, all those kind of things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut in that 15 year hiatus when I didn\u2019t see her or speak to her, I had to give up trying to change her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and I had to look at myself and what was my problem. My problem was I wanted a mother, and I wasn\u2019t getting the mother I wanted. My problem was I was bitter and resentful that she wasn\u2019t willing to change.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd as I began to heal myself and get healthier with the Lord and let His words define me, then, her words lost their potency over my life, and I wasn\u2019t nearly afraid of her anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want to talk for a moment about the bitterness and the issue of ultimately forgiving them. A number of years ago, I wrote a book about honoring your parents called <em>The Best Gift You Will Ever Give Your Parents<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI talked about three gifts you can give your parents: the gift of understanding, which you just modeled. You talked about the home your mom grew up in and her circumstances that surrounded her life that contributed to the woman she became. So, there is understanding. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecondly, the gift of compassion\u2014beginning to see them as a real person with hurts and needs and needing mercy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and needing someone who cares about them. Then, finally, the gift of forgiveness\u2014realizing you\u2018ve got to let go of the hurt, the hatred, the bitterness and all the ways they\u2019ve disappointed you and giving up the right of punishment. At that point, your soul can be clean and cleared.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>And freed!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, out of the prison! You think your letting your parents out of the prison. In essence, what you do is you let yourself out of the prison by forgiving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You spent a season where you stepped back from your relationship with your mom; and in that season, God did some work in your own heart, didn\u2019t He?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. During those 15 years, I just wasn\u2019t passive and just saying, \u201cOh well, that\u2019s her problem. I am just going to be bitter and resentful.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOver those 15 years, I did the work that I needed to do to let go of it\u2014to not contact her anymore, to forgive her mistreatment, to show compassion for her history and understanding that had I been in her shoes I might not have done much better. So, I really began to see that I had no right to judge her. It still didn\u2019t make me want\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014to have any time to spend in her presence, but I wasn\u2019t going to be bitter or resentful anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I don\u2019t want to encourage people to be na\u00efve, but I think you\u2019re on to something.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we begin to see in someone else the kind of damage that you\u2019ve described\u2014that you\u2019re mom experienced\u2014and we can see that with eyes of compassion instead of eyes of anger, that\u2019s a huge shift in our own heart because our response is less the protective response; and now, it\u2019s the more loving response to say, \u201cI want to help.\u201d And wanting to help, in your case, meant \u201cI need to stay away for awhile until I\u2019m strong enough to help.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Absolutely!\u00a0 I needed to stay away until she didn\u2019t keep pushing my buttons because I couldn\u2019t change her. She was going to push my buttons. She was going to say the things she always said. She was going to do the things she always did. My goal, then, was to not react the same way I use to. And through that process of not reacting to her and not letting her push my buttons, an amazing thing happened to my mother.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe began to soften as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, it was a tremendous lesson to me in life\u2014that as I got healthier I could invite her into healthier change, and she began to get healthier. The last year of her life she was dying, but she was the healthiest most alive she had ever been. It was an amazing thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019ve talked about taking a step back and removing yourself from being abused. So, you got some distance there where your head could clear and your emotions could settle down. What are other steps that need to be taken so a person can survive an abusive relationship? I mean we are talking about, probably, some spouses right now who are listening to this broadcast where they\u2019re in relationships that are daily\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, what do you do if things don\u2019t change? I mean you\u2019re trying to get healthier, but the emotionally destructive patterns are there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>Now, let\u2019s be real. There are many people who are in that kind of marriage who cannot leave or don\u2019t choose to for a variety of reasons\u2014some good reasons and some bad reasons. So, they\u2019re with this person, and they see them daily.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not like they can really step back physically.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I love the story of Abigail in the Old Testament because she is the woman who is in an emotionally and probably physically abusive relationship. Her husband is described as a surly, nasty man. And David was trying to get Nabel and his men to honor him by feeding his men because he had protected Nabel\u2019s sheep and his men during a season.\u00a0 Nabel was just greedy and selfish and arrogant and wouldn\u2019t do it.\u00a0 And he so enraged David that David threatened to massacre all the males in Nabel\u2019s household.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe servants knew that Abigail had a clear head. She was not a woman who was intimidated by this destructive man. The Scriptures describe her as a beautiful and intelligent woman\u2014and I have often pondered her: How did she stay healthy in this unhealthy relationship?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that was key for Abigail was that she didn\u2019t live in fantasy. I think if we are going to get healthy and live through an emotionally destructive relationship, we have to face reality.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that may be that our marriage isn\u2019t getting better\u2014that our spouse isn\u2019t going to change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen she went to David, she said, \u201cMy husband is a fool.\u201d She didn\u2019t make excuses for him, but she also said put the blame on me. She was a noble woman and was willing to take responsibility before David.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I think that facing reality, grieving your losses, understanding who God says you are is the major component of healing because identity is always formed in a relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love the verse in Psalm 86:5 where it says, \u201cO Lord, you are so good, so ready to forgive, and so full of unfailing love to all who ask for your help.\u201d That is who God is. If we can begin to get a picture of Him and of His love for us, that can begin to heal our damaged sense of self.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want to go back to your relationship with your mom. You said you forgave her.\u00a0 Did you tell her that you forgave her, and did you name the way that she had harmed you or had damaged you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>No, I never did because when I had tried to tell her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that she had harmed and damaged me, she wasn\u2019t healthy enough to hear it back those 15 years before that. And during her siege with lung cancer, I just didn\u2019t think she was any healthier than she had been back then. She had stopped drinking, but I didn\u2019t think that that was a good thing. I just had forgiven her, and it showed in my behavior toward her. She could sense that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember that one Mother\u2019s Day\u2014it was the only Mother\u2019s Day I remember spending with her as an adult, and I was visiting with her, my brother, and my sister. She turned to us and she said, \u201cI don\u2019t deserve this. I don\u2019t deserve this. This is the best Mother\u2019s Day I have ever had.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, she knew, but she could never say it. She could just tell that in our actions toward her it was pure grace. She didn\u2019t deserve our care, she didn\u2019t deserve our love, she didn\u2019t deserve our mercy; but we gave it to her because God had given it to us, and we gave it to her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the neatest thing about the story is she soaked it up like a dry sponge\u2014because a lot of people won\u2019t accept that. They\u2019re too proud, or they\u2019re too shamed. So, they\u2019ll reject it because they don\u2019t want to receive someone\u2019s care because they didn\u2019t deserve it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, I wonder right now if we are speaking to a person who\u2019s in a relationship\u2014maybe it\u2019s like you and your mom\u2014maybe they haven\u2019t spoken to one another in months, years, a decade or more; and they have lost hope that there will ever be any kind of reasonable reconciliation or a relationship of any kind. What I just heard you say is you never know what God will do in those final moments of a person\u2019s life\u2014if you just hang in there with an authentic love but a love that has its boundaries.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Absolutely! That\u2019s why when I am counseling someone I always tell them do what you are supposed to do right now. You can\u2019t control what is going to happen in the future. So, just\u2014you work on you. You get healthy. You get ready because if the person ever comes to a place where they can repent\u2014or they can begin to see their blind spots\u2014you don\u2019t want to be so full of anger and bitterness\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that you can\u2019t, then, do what God is going to ask you to do.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if you get your part ready\u2014you don\u2019t have to worry about God\u2019s part or their part.\u00a0 You just get your part ready. If God ever orchestrates the reunion of an opportunity to talk about those things again\u2014and I remember my mother laying on the hospital bed in my family room\u2014the hospice nurse was on one side giving her a bath\u2014she turned to me, she held my hand, and she said, \u201cI am sorry.\u00a0 I never knew how to love my children.\u201d That was the only apology that I ever got, but it was huge.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHad we not had those good months before that, I don\u2019t think she would have been healthy enough to be able to say that. So, God gave me a wonderful gift at the end which I never expected.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You had\u2014prior to your time with your mom\u2014you had this storehouse full of painful memories, hurt, shame.\u00a0 It\u2019s not like those memories are now gone.\u00a0 You still know the events. You can still talk about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014getting pushed down the back stairs or about being swung at by your mom.\u00a0 So, what\u2019s the difference?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie: <\/strong>The difference is there is no emotional charge to it anymore. The emotional charge of shame or hatred or bitterness\u2014that is all gone because I have been able to work through it, and I don\u2019t feel the pain of it anymore. I can say it, as a fact; but it doesn\u2019t hold the emotional charge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Where did it go? Where did the pain go?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> The pain went into the arms of Christ. You know He takes our pain\u2014by His stripes, we\u2019re healed. It says in Psalm 107:20, \u201cBy His word, He healed them.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not just the Word of God\u2014which I really believe in\u2014but it\u2019s the presence of God because the word became flesh. So, as we sit in God\u2019s presence and we allow Him to speak to our hearts and nourish our hearts and minister to our hearts\u2014and there are times when we don\u2019t even know what He is doing we are just being still. \u201cBe still and know that I am God.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believe that God does affirm us, heal us, and restore us. He doesn\u2019t just redeem us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe restores us, so that we might be all that He wants us to be\u2014including the cracks.\u00a0 He doesn\u2019t take them all away. He just heals them so He can use them for His glory.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, this isn\u2019t just you painting with a rosy brush the sewage. This isn\u2019t just you denying that there ever was pain there. There\u2019s been a process whereby something redemptive has happened.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes! I really encourage people\u2014because this is 15 years and I\u2019m a Christian counselor\u2014it took me a long time. I really encourage people with the process because it\u2019s not\u2014and I feel so badly for people who are given the counseling through their church of you just have to forgive and forget and get back together. It just doesn\u2019t happen that fast.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we really need to let people sit and work through the things that they need to work through it so that there\u2019s genuine change and real redemptive healing takes place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We talked a bit earlier about Romans, Chapter 12, verse 18. I want to read it again; but then, I want to read to the end of the chapter and make a point here.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt says, \u201cIf possible so far as it depends on you\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201clive peaceably with all.\u201d And just a comment about this\u2014I love this scripture because it\u2019s so reasonable. It recognizes there are going to be relationships where peace doesn\u2019t occur. So, you know what? Do your part but don\u2019t do their part, too. Then, in verse 19, it says \u201cBeloved, never avenge your selves but leave it to the wrath of God. For it is written, vengeance is mine. I will repay says the Lord.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll just tell you. In this relationship that I\u2019ve shared about that has gone on for 20 years where I feel like I was abused, I finally had to take a step back and then take a friend with me when I re-engaged that relationship. I could tell when I had finally forgiven and had given up the right to punish the other person\u2014was when I would read this passage here, \u201cBeloved, leave room for the wrath of God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, this person is somebody I still love. I don\u2019t want them to experience the wrath of God because the ultimate wrath is a Christ-less eternity in Hell. I don\u2019t want this person to experience that. I want them to know the God of hope, the God of grace, the God of mercy, and the God of forgiveness that I know Who has worked in my life and given me freedom to be able to relate to that person. I think we can know if we have forgiven by how we pray for that other person.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, finally, this passage concludes. It says, \u201cTo the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he\u2019s thirsty, give him something to drink. For by doing so, you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Scripture is so simple sometimes. I just wish it was easy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Laughter]\u2014because I am so human. I get entangled with my own emotions, my own wrong perspective, my own lack of belief in God and His word. And here God lays it out pretty simple.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> You know, and the Bible tells us\u2014and Peter tells us that Satan\u2019s a roaring lion who seeks to devour us. So, sometimes, he might use another person\u2014that destructive person to try to destroy us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s really important that we understand that our enemy isn\u2019t always the other person.\u00a0 They may feel like the enemy, but our real true enemy spiritually is Satan. He wants us to be overcome by evil. So, when someone is evil toward us\u2014when they are destructive toward us, the most tempting thing and the most natural thing is for us to be overcome by that; and then, we start being evil back\u2014either by retaliating or being bitter or being unforgiving or by letting it crush our spirit.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, God is saying that we have work to do when we are in the presence of an evil person, and that is to not let it overcome us. We need to\u2014just like if you were going to go in an environment where there is hazardous waste material or there\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014nuclear rays going out, you put on a hazmat suit. You do something to guard yourself, to protect yourself.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod says we need to put that spiritual armor on especially when we are in the presence of toxic people or negative people all the time\u2014to protect ourselves so that we are not overcome by evil, but we can overcome evil with good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, Leslie you\u2019ve done a great job here of bringing your practical experience, not only as a counselor, but being real and talking about a tough relationship with your mom\u2014and really helping us understand as individuals how we can begin to pay attention to how we\u2019ve been abused; then, release the anger and the resentment by forgiving; and then, finally, survive it by loving in return with boundaries.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just appreciate you being on the broadcast, and I hope you\u2019ll come back and join us again sometime.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> I\u2019d love to do that. Thanks for having me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think there are going to be a lot of people who, not only who have benefitted from what we\u2019ve talked about this week, but who are going to benefit as they get a copy of your book, <em>The Emotionally Destructive Relationship:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Seeing It, Stopping It, Surviving It<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had the opportunity, a number of months ago, to give a copy of the book to a young person I know who is in a relationship where I was concerned about what was going on; and I thought, \u201cI think you need to read this and just see \u2018Are these patterns present in your relationship?\u2019\u201d And this person got back in touch with me and said, \u201cThe book really nailed what I\u2019m going through, and it was really helpful.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, it may be a relationship you are in or you may know somebody who is in one of these kinds of emotionally challenging relationships\u2014get a copy of Leslie Vernick\u2019s book. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click in the upper left-hand corner where it says, \u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can order the book from us online if you\u2019d like\u2014that\u2019s <em>The Emotionally Destructive Relationship<\/em> by Leslie Vernick.\u00a0 Order at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order.\u00a0 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number\u20141-800-358-6329.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Well, as we head into the second half of 2014, there is a lot ahead of us here at FamilyLife. We have our <em>I Still Do<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup>, one-day marriage celebrations coming up.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAbout a month from now, we\u2019ll be in Chicago for <em>I Still Do<\/em> at the Allstate Arena on August 2<sup>nd<\/sup>\u2014Saturday, August 2<sup>nd<\/sup>; then, the Moda Center in Portland, August 23<sup>rd<\/sup>; and then, we\u2019ll be at the MCI Center in Washington, D.C. on Saturday, October 4<sup>th<\/sup>. These events are designed to help equip couples to strengthen their core commitment to one another in marriage, to have emotionally healthy relationships.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd along with <em>I Still Do<\/em>, of course, we have FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaways happening this fall. We\u2019re working on new resources will be sharing with you throughout the fall. It\u2019s just a busy season for us here at FamilyLife.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to say thank you to the listeners who enable all that happens here at FamilyLife to happen. Without your support, we couldn\u2019t produce this radio program, our website, our mobile apps\u2014all of that would not be possible if we didn\u2019t have listeners like you who call or went online or mailed a donation to help support this ministry. We depend on those donations, and we appreciate those of you who have a heart like we have for seeing every home become a godly home.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to make a donation this week, we\u2019d love to send you the <em>FamilyLife Bible Study for Couples<\/em>. It\u2019s a study guide designed for husbands and wives to go through it together; or you can go through it with a small group. It\u2019s our gift to you this week when you support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com and click in the upper right-hand corner of the homepage where it says, \u201cI CARE.\u201d You can make an online donation there; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014make a donation over the phone. Be sure to request the <em>Bible Study for Couples<\/em> when you do that. Or make your request for the Bible study\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014when mail a check to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at Box 7111, Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 Our zip code is 72223.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about a new animated video series for children called <em>Iesodo<\/em>. It\u2019s a series that introduces them to Jesus in a very creative way, and we\u2019ll hear more about it tomorrow. Hope you can join us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. See you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303105","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303105"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303105"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303105"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303105"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303105"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303105"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303105"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}