{"id":303095,"date":"2014-06-25T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-06-25T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/empty-pleasures\/"},"modified":"2014-06-25T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-06-25T15:00:00","slug":"empty-pleasures","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/empty-pleasures\/","title":{"rendered":"Empty Pleasures"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>We are made for worship. But many times what we worship isn&#8217;t God. Christian counselor Paul Tripp talks about the idols of money and sex &#8211; those things that often replace God in our hearts.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-25.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.62M","filesize_raw":"23722358","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848],"tags":[5344,4853,5363,5365,2991,5364],"podcast_series":[8020],"cwp_profile":[3097],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303095","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","tag-biblical-model","tag-money","tag-pleasure","tag-pointing-to-gospel","tag-sex","tag-signs","podcast_series-sex-and-money","cwp_profile-paul-david-tripp","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303095\/empty-pleasures","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303095\/empty-pleasures","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"SBoMnssJxL\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/empty-pleasures\/\">Empty Pleasures<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/empty-pleasures\/embed\/#?secret=SBoMnssJxL\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Empty Pleasures&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"SBoMnssJxL\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-25.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-25.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Our culture places a high value on two very important things\u2014money and sex. Paul David Tripp says, \u201cThose important things can also ruin your life.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>If you\u2019re a Christian man\u2014and you\u2019ve begun a flirting relationship with a woman at work, and are beginning to sort of touch her arm, and those kinds of things\u2014move that direction\u2014you are not doing that because you\u2019re ignorant that that is wrong. You\u2019re doing it, at that point, because you don\u2019t give a rip of what\u2019s wrong because you want your pleasure. God is out of the picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why it\u2019s only that greater pleasure that will protect me because\u2014guess who I need to be rescued from?\u00a0 Not my culture. I need to be rescued from me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, June 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Author and speaker, Paul David Tripp, joins us today to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to sex and money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re going to talk this week about two really, really, really good things that can destroy your life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Like anything else that God made, it can become an addiction. It can become an idol. And we\u2019ve got a very wise man joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> to equip both\u2014individuals, as they struggle with these issues\u2014but also moms and dads, who are, I think, preparing the next generation for facing issues like this and others in an ever-increasing way. Paul Tripp joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> again. Paul, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>It is great to be with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>For those of you who don\u2019t know Paul\u2014he is a pastor, an author, a speaker. He is President of Paul Tripp Ministries\u2014lives in Philly with his wife Luella. They have four grown children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And if you have been to <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, you will know Paul as the mustached man. [Laughter]\u00a0 That\u2019s\u2014listeners go, \u201cWho\u2019s the guy with the mustache?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Looks a little mysterious, really, in there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>My kids have seen it and go, \u201cI wish I could get a mustache like that because he\u2019s got the coolest mustache.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He\u2019s written a book called <em>Sex and Money<\/em>\u2014subtitled <em>Pleasures That Leave You Empty and Grace That Satisfies<\/em>. These two subjects\u2014our culture is all over this. I mean, you can\u2019t go anywhere\u2014either driving, or on TV, or on the internet, or at work\u2014wherever you go, you are going to find these two subjects. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>This was a book I could not, not write. Sitting in the middle of this culture\u2014watching my culture go completely insane\u2014I had to write this book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you said, at the end\u2014after you\u2019d written it\u2014that you were grieving about yourself\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014at what you had to come to grips with about your own soul and who you are, as a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Because you realize how greatly you\u2019ve been influenced and shaped by the insanity that\u2019s around you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And when you talk about the culture being crazy\u2014and you do throughout the book. You keep coming back to just how insane this culture is on these two subjects. It\u2019s almost like we don\u2019t need illustrations of that, but it is a little frog in the kettle for us. We don\u2019t realize just how crazy we\u2019ve become; do we?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>No. I think it\u2019s the coursing of culture that has happened over the last few decades\u2014that if you could watch it on a sped-up film, it would shock you. You watch something like the Oscars, or you go to a mall, or whatever\u2014and you are assaulted all the time. And the openness of sexual talk, and sexual humor, and the kinds of things that are norm for young people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014they are just shocking. They are insane. It\u2019s a view of sexuality that can\u2019t possibly work. It\u2019s destructive from the get-go. Yet, we don\u2019t act like it\u2019s destructive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You also talk about money. Somehow, I don\u2019t think, in our minds, we want to put sex and money together as assaulting us; but in this materialistic culture and such\u2014well, somebody has described as affluenza\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014like the flu. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019re covered over with being told\u2014what we have is not enough and \u201cYou need to accumulate more.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>See\u2014and I think that the sort of culturally-correct way of talking about the downturn of our economy is that it\u2019s bad banks and predatory Wall Street. It actually is much deeper than that. It\u2019s a culture that has become quite accustomed to living way beyond its means\u2014that doesn\u2019t have a sensible view of money. We\u2019re paying the price for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>People living in houses that are<em> way bigger<\/em> than they can afford, taking vacations that no one should be taking at their income level. I mean, you just multiply examples of that. If you look at our culture and say, \u201cWhat are two obvious places where we\u2019ve just gone crazy?\u201d\u2014these are it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you\u2019re not down on either sex or money. You think they are both good things; right?\u00a0 <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Oh, absolutely. And one of the things I argue in the book is that God created a pleasurable world\u2014pleasure, in and of itself, is not evil. What\u2019s dangerous is when you ask of that pleasure things that you shouldn\u2019t ask. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the person who says: \u201cHere is how we\u2019re going to deal with this in our family. We\u2019re going to not have a television. We\u2019re going to filter our internet, and we\u2019re going to put the boundaries up around our lives so that this doesn\u2019t become an issue for us.\u201d\u00a0 Is that a good strategy?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Paul: <\/strong>Well, the cross exposes that strategy because,\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014if all you needed to be pure and to be out of debt was a set of regulations, Jesus wouldn\u2019t have had to come. That\u2019s the problem with the conversations that the church is having\u2014that it tends to be: \u201cDon\u2019t do this. Don\u2019t do that.\u201d\u00a0 I mean, I think budgeting can be helpful. I think accountability can be helpful, but they\u2019ve got to root at a deeper level where this stuff actually gets us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you talked about parents talking to their children\u2014that is the kind of conversation I want to see parents\u2014talk about the hearts of children \/ talk about \u201cthe things that magnetize my heart that give me a sense of identity,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s where the battle takes place. Because if all you say is, \u201cDon\u2019t do this and do that,\u201d you haven\u2019t really dealt with the deeper issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Don\u2019t you think that we think that the subject of idol worship is something reserved for Old Testament saints\u2014Old Testaments Israel who struggled with these issues\u2014and we don\u2019t think we have our idols today?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Oh, I think that\u2019s exactly right. In fact, sometimes, when I\u2019m teaching on these things, I\u2019ll start with a term like, \u201cWhat are your functional God replacements?\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s a way of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>\u2014moving toward the concept of idolatry because people have this weird Old Testament view of idolatry that isn\u2019t practical to the kinds of issue that we\u2019re talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They\u2019re thinking statues. An idol is not a statue, necessarily. It might be a statue; but an idol can be anything that, as you said, is a \u201cfunctional God-replacement.\u201d\u00a0 If you are counting on this to do what God said He\u2019ll do, you\u2019ve got an idol; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>And that\u2019s where the conversation needs to begin. It needs to begin with my identity. My identity is \u201cI\u2019ve been created by God to be a worshiper.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s not just that I worship on Sunday. I worship every day\u2014all the time, wherever I am\u2014because I\u2019m always giving my heart to something. I\u2019m always in pursuit of some kind of dream. I\u2019m always magnetized by something.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m always after some kind of treasure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me give you one example. We taught this very young to our children. My youngest son is a gifted athlete. He is now a sports broadcaster. He would come home from basketball practice\u2014great eye-hand coordination\u2014and he\u2019d go out back. He\u2019d shoot foul shots\u2014sets of a hundred\u2014trying to raise his percentage. I was in the kitchen, and I was making dinner. I was hearing the dribble of the ball\u2014sort of the rhythm\u2014and it stopped. He came in the back door, ball in his arm, and sweat on his face. He said: \u201cDad, I have a question for you. How do you know when a good thing, like basketball, becomes a bad thing in your life because it rules you too much?\u201d\u00a0 I ran across the kitchen. I threw my arms around him. I said: \u201cPraise God!\u00a0 Praise God!\u00a0 Praise God that you are asking that question!\u201d\u00a0 Nobody is asking this question. I didn\u2019t ask that question until I was 45. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s the level you want the conversation to have with your children, so they begin to understand: \u201cThis is who I am.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThis is why these things\u2014these good things\u2014are potentially dangerous things for me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, money, sex can replace God in our hearts. It\u2019s that simple. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>And the way they do that is you ask them to give you what only God can give. So, we\u2019re looking horizontally for what we only can ever get vertically. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What you are talking about is, really, how much we, as men and women, love pleasure. You describe, in your book, how God made pleasure. In fact, I want you to read how you described it because there is a list of pleasures, Bob\u2014that as I read these, it was like, \u201cOh, yes, nice, nice.\u201d\u00a0 And you don\u2019t have to tell your children to go away. This is all rated \u201cGP\u201d\u2014God\u2019s Plan\u2014but this is a picture of the senses that God gave us to enjoy, as human beings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>\u201cThe multilayer beauty of a sunset, the sweet song of a bird, the biting herbaceous-ness of cilantro, the tender delicacy of human kiss, the whistle of the breeze through the leaves of a giant oak, the shimmer of a glassy still pond, the variegated beauty of the human form, the gorgeous aroma of a rose, the seemingly endless catalogue of herbs and spices, the emotional power of music, the communicative power of visual art. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThe gift of eyes, ears, mouth, nose, and hands to take it all in. The existence of the desire for pleasure, the ability to recognize and enjoy beauty, the capacity to create beauty, the endless sights, sounds, shapes, colors, lights, and textures of the created world, the sedentary pleasure of sleep. The pleasures of life are everywhere you turn.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>My wife didn\u2019t read that, but I\u2019ll show it to her when I show her your book. She\u2019s very visual. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve said of my wife, \u201cWherever she goes, she makes things beautiful, either through her presence, or through her words, or through the art or the design that she creates and brings to an office, a room, a yard\u201d\u2014much to my chagrin\u2014I\u2019m a laborer for the deal!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But what you are saying is God made these pleasures for us to enjoy. They, in and of themselves, are not shameful. We shouldn\u2019t feel guilty for enjoying them. God made pleasure to be enjoyed. Yet, we, as human beings\u2014because we are broken\u2014have a way of twisting and turning the pleasure\u2014and putting it where you would put an idol\u2014on a pedestal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>In fact, I would say even more fully\u2014it actually brings God glory to celebrate the beauty that He\u2019s put into His creation\u2014to recognize how amazing it is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that my eyes can pick up this stuff\u2014these colors, and textures, and shapes\u2014that my ears hear with such distinction. I can hear discord, and I can hear harmony. I mean, those are wonders in and of themselves. To celebrate that, actually, gives God glory. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>God could have created a black and white world. He could have created us with eyes that only see a blur; but He made us so that we can experience the beauty and the wonder. We are sensate\u2014sensual creatures\u2014in how we live. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And one of the things you do, Paul, in your book, is you point out how we\u2014as God\u2019s creation \/ as creatures\u2014expect too much out of these sensations. We expect too much out of pleasure. You illustrate this with a series of stories of how men and women you\u2019ve counseled have gotten lost in their pursuit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou take a 13-year-old boy, who has the doors opened to him of sexual pleasure. Something connects in his brain, \u201cI feel alive when I\u2019m doing this.\u201d\u00a0 So, that becomes a theme in his life. Here\u2019s my concern. When I wrote this book, I\u2019m concerned about the 13-year-olds out there. What they don\u2019t realize they are doing is they are asking a particular kind of pleasure to provide something for them that it <em>can never<\/em> provide. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn so many cases, where I\u2019ve dealt with the aftermath\u2014with a 45-year-old guy \/ 45-year-old woman\u2014it\u2019s gone back to those early days where this pattern of addiction takes place because pleasure\u2014beautiful pleasure\u2014is put in a place it\u2019s never supposed to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Paul, I will often see people compartmentalize\u2014their spiritual life, and their money, and sex life\u2014over here. They don\u2019t see that there is a connection between the two.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they go to church on Sunday. They worship, and they read their Bible, and they love Jesus. Then, Monday, they don\u2019t see that there is a connection between what went on in church on Sunday and how they handle their money or how they handle sex throughout the rest of the week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Well, I think that\u2019s been one of the reasons why the church is losing this battle because we\u2019ve divided our world into things spiritual and things secular. That division doesn\u2019t exist!\u00a0 All of life is spiritual. In every moment of my life, I am in some stage of response to God\u2014ignoring Him, recognizing Him, rebelling against Him, submitting to Him. I\u2019m always living a God-ward life. It\u2019s impossible not to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, you can argue\u2014and I do in this book\u2014that the four most important words in the Bible are the first four, \u201cIn the beginning, God,\u201d because if God is on scene\u2014and He is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and everything belongs to Him, everything is created by Him, everything is invested with meaning and purpose by Him, everything has a plan that He has put into it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>So, what does that do for pleasure?\u00a0 Well, it means\u2014just think of one thing\u2014those pleasures never belonged to me\u2014they belong to God. Pleasure can\u2019t be boundless. It needs boundaries. God set boundaries for pleasure. So, once you begin with God as Creator, all of a sudden, the whole thing becomes spiritual. Everything has to do with God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here\u2019s what is important. Let\u2019s go back to children. My child doesn\u2019t know that. He doesn\u2019t know he is a worshiper. He doesn\u2019t know he\u2019ll put pleasure in the wrong place. He doesn\u2019t know that all of life belongs to God. He doesn\u2019t know that that sets all kinds of boundaries for his living. He knows none of those. Those are the mysteries of the universe that parents have to download to their children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not enough to say, \u201cNo, don\u2019t touch this girl in that way.\u201d\u00a0 You should say that, but it\u2019s got to be rooted in these deeper things\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that really define where the battle takes place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>One of the things you go on to say about pleasure is that your life of pleasure is protected by pleasure. Explain what you mean by that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s\u2014pleasure is made safe when every horizontal pleasure submits itself to a greater pleasure\u2014and it\u2019s the pleasure of God. If the quest\u2014if my first question in sex is not: \u201cWhat pleases me?\u201d but, \u201cWhat would please God in the way that I\u2019m involved in this?\u201d all of a sudden, the thing is protected in just a beautiful way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I say with my money\u2014[not]: \u201cHow can I use this money to bring whatever pleasure it is able to purchase for me?\u201d but say: \u201cHow would God be pleased by my use of this money?\u201d If I say to my relationship with that girl or that woman at work\u2014not: \u201cWhat would please me in this relationship?\u201d but: \u201cWhat would please God in the way I conduct myself in the certain relationship?\u201d\u2014I mean, you just get it\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that pleasure is always made safe when it\u2019s under the umbrella of a grander pleasure. And that\u2019s the pleasure of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019ll give you a good illustration of this. This past weekend, I was with a couple who, by the world\u2019s standards, would be considered wealthy; but the wife was smiling and taking great delight \/ great pleasure in trying to find ways that she could give more away\u2014to such a degree\u2014she\u2019s decided\u2014and I\u2019m not saying this needs to be everybody\u2019s marching orders\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>This is the conclusion she came to\u2014that if anyone asks her for money, she\u2019s going to give it to them. She had some incredible stories of people coming up to her in a store\u2014out of the clear blue\u2014asking her for money. Now, again, she\u2019s not lavishing vast amounts of money on people, but she\u2019s meeting some needs of people as she\u2019s going along the way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat kind of clicks with me, as you just made your statement, Paul, was that she started with God. \u201cThis has been given to us by God. I take great delight in Him. I want to please Him, and I\u2019m going to do that by doing what God says He loves\u2014a cheerful giver.\u201d\u00a0 So, she\u2019s delighting in God\u2019s pleasure of her giving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>And the other side is true too. If you are a Christian man\u2014and you\u2019ve begun a flirting relationship with a woman at work, and are beginning to sort of touch her arm, and those kinds of things\u2014moving in that direction\u2014you\u2019re not doing that because you\u2019re ignorant that that is wrong. You\u2019re doing that, at that point, because you don\u2019t give a rip of what\u2019s wrong because you want your pleasure. God is out of the picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why it\u2019s only that greater pleasure that will protect me because\u2014guess who I need to be rescued from?\u2014not my culture. I need to be rescued from me. A heart submitted to that greater pleasure is a heart rescued. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember having a dinner one time with our mutual friend, Dan Allender, and his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt had been a great meal. We kind of pushed back from the table. I said, \u201cThat was a great meal.\u201d\u00a0 Dan said, \u201cYou know, every time you have a great meal, it should be a trigger of how great heaven is going to be.\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cIt\u2019s just a picture of something that is infinitely greater that awaits us.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn Psalm 16, it says, \u201cAt His right hand, there are pleasures evermore.\u201d\u00a0 God is not a God who is stingy with pleasure; is He?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>No, He is not. And see, I think that what you\u2019re pointing to is another part of the conversation we need to have. It\u2019s that all of these physical glories actually have a very important spiritual function. It\u2019s not just that God made His world pleasurable. There is a purpose for all those pleasures. Every physical pleasure that God ever created\u2014wherever you encounter it\u2014is meant to be a finger that points you to the glory of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can stop at the pleasure. They\u2019re all functional. They are all meant\u2014I mean, if this rose is not just pink but, across its petal, is 700 shades of pink\u2014\u201cWhat must He be like who made that rose?\u201d\u00a0 If these wings of this hummingbird are inexhaustible\u2014\u201cWhat must this God be like who thought of that?\u201d\u00a0 If this sunset just <em>blows<\/em> my mind as it hits the horizon\u2014\u201cWhat must this God be like who made this?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s what all those things are meant to do. They are meant to be fingers that point you to the one place where your heart will be satisfied. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, the question for every listener right now is \u201cWhat or who do you worship?\u201d\u2014just a real quick throne check\u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s got center stage?\u00a0 What grabs your attention?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDoes God show up in the sunset, in the flower, in the smile of your child, in the delight of\u2014as we\u2019ve talked about\u2014a nice meal or a kiss?\u00a0 Question is: \u201cYour heart was made to worship. What are you filling it with?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that\u2019s not a question you just ask once and go, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ve got that resolved\u201d; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You ask that question over and over again. I think in reading the book, <em>Sex and Money<\/em>, we get a chance to examine two very good things that can lead us to idolatry. I\u2019d encourage our listeners, \u201cGet a copy of the book that Paul David Tripp has written, called <em>Sex and Money: Pleasures That Leave You Empty and Grace That Satisfies<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Click in the upper left-hand corner of the page where it says,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d You can order the book online. Or you can order by phone. Call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know that one of the things that has helped Mary Ann and me wrestle with this issue of how we handle the issue of money, in particular, is the discipline of giving in our lives\u2014cultivating a heart of generosity\u2014wanting to be givers and wanting to support the work of the Kingdom. We still have a ways to go in that because, like you were saying, Paul, we are still wed to or tempted by the stuff of this world, thinking it will bring satisfaction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I just want to acknowledge the listeners who help support this radio program. We are listener-supported. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe could not do what we do if it weren\u2019t for listeners, like you, who pitch in and help cover the cost of producing and syndicating this daily program. We\u2019re grateful that, for more than 21 years now, we have had faithful, generous listeners who have said, \u201cThis program really does matter to us, and we want to help support it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, when you help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of a Bible study that we put together for couples. It\u2019s the<em> FamilyLife Bible Study for Couples<\/em>. It\u2019s designed for a husband and wife to go through together as you look at God\u2019s Word and see what it has to say about relationships. This is a Bible study that you can do either on your own or do with other couples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s our gift to you when you make a donation this month. Either go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014click the button in the upper right-hand corner that says, \u201cI CARE,\u201d and make an online donation there\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation over the phone\u2014or you can write a check and mail it to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,<em>\u2014<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014along with a note that says you\u2019d like the Bible study for couples. Send your check to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. And our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd let me encourage you to join us back again tomorrow. Paul David Tripp is going to be here again. We\u2019re going to continue to talk about how we wrestle with the idols of sex and money in our lives. Hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.62M"],"filesize_raw":["23722358"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303095.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303095.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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are made for worship. But many times what we worship isn't God. Christian counselor Paul Tripp talks about the idols of money and sex - those things that often replace God in our hearts.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-25.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Our culture places a high value on two very important things\u2014money and sex. Paul David Tripp says, \u201cThose important things can also ruin your life.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>If you\u2019re a Christian man\u2014and you\u2019ve begun a flirting relationship with a woman at work, and are beginning to sort of touch her arm, and those kinds of things\u2014move that direction\u2014you are not doing that because you\u2019re ignorant that that is wrong. You\u2019re doing it, at that point, because you don\u2019t give a rip of what\u2019s wrong because you want your pleasure. God is out of the picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why it\u2019s only that greater pleasure that will protect me because\u2014guess who I need to be rescued from?\u00a0 Not my culture. I need to be rescued from me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, June 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Author and speaker, Paul David Tripp, joins us today to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to sex and money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re going to talk this week about two really, really, really good things that can destroy your life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Like anything else that God made, it can become an addiction. It can become an idol. And we\u2019ve got a very wise man joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> to equip both\u2014individuals, as they struggle with these issues\u2014but also moms and dads, who are, I think, preparing the next generation for facing issues like this and others in an ever-increasing way. Paul Tripp joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> again. Paul, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>It is great to be with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>For those of you who don\u2019t know Paul\u2014he is a pastor, an author, a speaker. He is President of Paul Tripp Ministries\u2014lives in Philly with his wife Luella. They have four grown children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And if you have been to <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, you will know Paul as the mustached man. [Laughter]\u00a0 That\u2019s\u2014listeners go, \u201cWho\u2019s the guy with the mustache?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Looks a little mysterious, really, in there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>My kids have seen it and go, \u201cI wish I could get a mustache like that because he\u2019s got the coolest mustache.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He\u2019s written a book called <em>Sex and Money<\/em>\u2014subtitled <em>Pleasures That Leave You Empty and Grace That Satisfies<\/em>. These two subjects\u2014our culture is all over this. I mean, you can\u2019t go anywhere\u2014either driving, or on TV, or on the internet, or at work\u2014wherever you go, you are going to find these two subjects. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>This was a book I could not, not write. Sitting in the middle of this culture\u2014watching my culture go completely insane\u2014I had to write this book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you said, at the end\u2014after you\u2019d written it\u2014that you were grieving about yourself\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014at what you had to come to grips with about your own soul and who you are, as a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Because you realize how greatly you\u2019ve been influenced and shaped by the insanity that\u2019s around you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And when you talk about the culture being crazy\u2014and you do throughout the book. You keep coming back to just how insane this culture is on these two subjects. It\u2019s almost like we don\u2019t need illustrations of that, but it is a little frog in the kettle for us. We don\u2019t realize just how crazy we\u2019ve become; do we?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>No. I think it\u2019s the coursing of culture that has happened over the last few decades\u2014that if you could watch it on a sped-up film, it would shock you. You watch something like the Oscars, or you go to a mall, or whatever\u2014and you are assaulted all the time. And the openness of sexual talk, and sexual humor, and the kinds of things that are norm for young people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014they are just shocking. They are insane. It\u2019s a view of sexuality that can\u2019t possibly work. It\u2019s destructive from the get-go. Yet, we don\u2019t act like it\u2019s destructive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You also talk about money. Somehow, I don\u2019t think, in our minds, we want to put sex and money together as assaulting us; but in this materialistic culture and such\u2014well, somebody has described as affluenza\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014like the flu. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019re covered over with being told\u2014what we have is not enough and \u201cYou need to accumulate more.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>See\u2014and I think that the sort of culturally-correct way of talking about the downturn of our economy is that it\u2019s bad banks and predatory Wall Street. It actually is much deeper than that. It\u2019s a culture that has become quite accustomed to living way beyond its means\u2014that doesn\u2019t have a sensible view of money. We\u2019re paying the price for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>People living in houses that are<em> way bigger<\/em> than they can afford, taking vacations that no one should be taking at their income level. I mean, you just multiply examples of that. If you look at our culture and say, \u201cWhat are two obvious places where we\u2019ve just gone crazy?\u201d\u2014these are it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you\u2019re not down on either sex or money. You think they are both good things; right?\u00a0 <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Oh, absolutely. And one of the things I argue in the book is that God created a pleasurable world\u2014pleasure, in and of itself, is not evil. What\u2019s dangerous is when you ask of that pleasure things that you shouldn\u2019t ask. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the person who says: \u201cHere is how we\u2019re going to deal with this in our family. We\u2019re going to not have a television. We\u2019re going to filter our internet, and we\u2019re going to put the boundaries up around our lives so that this doesn\u2019t become an issue for us.\u201d\u00a0 Is that a good strategy?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Paul: <\/strong>Well, the cross exposes that strategy because,\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014if all you needed to be pure and to be out of debt was a set of regulations, Jesus wouldn\u2019t have had to come. That\u2019s the problem with the conversations that the church is having\u2014that it tends to be: \u201cDon\u2019t do this. Don\u2019t do that.\u201d\u00a0 I mean, I think budgeting can be helpful. I think accountability can be helpful, but they\u2019ve got to root at a deeper level where this stuff actually gets us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you talked about parents talking to their children\u2014that is the kind of conversation I want to see parents\u2014talk about the hearts of children \/ talk about \u201cthe things that magnetize my heart that give me a sense of identity,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s where the battle takes place. Because if all you say is, \u201cDon\u2019t do this and do that,\u201d you haven\u2019t really dealt with the deeper issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Don\u2019t you think that we think that the subject of idol worship is something reserved for Old Testament saints\u2014Old Testaments Israel who struggled with these issues\u2014and we don\u2019t think we have our idols today?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Oh, I think that\u2019s exactly right. In fact, sometimes, when I\u2019m teaching on these things, I\u2019ll start with a term like, \u201cWhat are your functional God replacements?\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s a way of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>\u2014moving toward the concept of idolatry because people have this weird Old Testament view of idolatry that isn\u2019t practical to the kinds of issue that we\u2019re talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They\u2019re thinking statues. An idol is not a statue, necessarily. It might be a statue; but an idol can be anything that, as you said, is a \u201cfunctional God-replacement.\u201d\u00a0 If you are counting on this to do what God said He\u2019ll do, you\u2019ve got an idol; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>And that\u2019s where the conversation needs to begin. It needs to begin with my identity. My identity is \u201cI\u2019ve been created by God to be a worshiper.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s not just that I worship on Sunday. I worship every day\u2014all the time, wherever I am\u2014because I\u2019m always giving my heart to something. I\u2019m always in pursuit of some kind of dream. I\u2019m always magnetized by something.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m always after some kind of treasure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me give you one example. We taught this very young to our children. My youngest son is a gifted athlete. He is now a sports broadcaster. He would come home from basketball practice\u2014great eye-hand coordination\u2014and he\u2019d go out back. He\u2019d shoot foul shots\u2014sets of a hundred\u2014trying to raise his percentage. I was in the kitchen, and I was making dinner. I was hearing the dribble of the ball\u2014sort of the rhythm\u2014and it stopped. He came in the back door, ball in his arm, and sweat on his face. He said: \u201cDad, I have a question for you. How do you know when a good thing, like basketball, becomes a bad thing in your life because it rules you too much?\u201d\u00a0 I ran across the kitchen. I threw my arms around him. I said: \u201cPraise God!\u00a0 Praise God!\u00a0 Praise God that you are asking that question!\u201d\u00a0 Nobody is asking this question. I didn\u2019t ask that question until I was 45. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s the level you want the conversation to have with your children, so they begin to understand: \u201cThis is who I am.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThis is why these things\u2014these good things\u2014are potentially dangerous things for me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, money, sex can replace God in our hearts. It\u2019s that simple. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>And the way they do that is you ask them to give you what only God can give. So, we\u2019re looking horizontally for what we only can ever get vertically. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What you are talking about is, really, how much we, as men and women, love pleasure. You describe, in your book, how God made pleasure. In fact, I want you to read how you described it because there is a list of pleasures, Bob\u2014that as I read these, it was like, \u201cOh, yes, nice, nice.\u201d\u00a0 And you don\u2019t have to tell your children to go away. This is all rated \u201cGP\u201d\u2014God\u2019s Plan\u2014but this is a picture of the senses that God gave us to enjoy, as human beings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>\u201cThe multilayer beauty of a sunset, the sweet song of a bird, the biting herbaceous-ness of cilantro, the tender delicacy of human kiss, the whistle of the breeze through the leaves of a giant oak, the shimmer of a glassy still pond, the variegated beauty of the human form, the gorgeous aroma of a rose, the seemingly endless catalogue of herbs and spices, the emotional power of music, the communicative power of visual art. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThe gift of eyes, ears, mouth, nose, and hands to take it all in. The existence of the desire for pleasure, the ability to recognize and enjoy beauty, the capacity to create beauty, the endless sights, sounds, shapes, colors, lights, and textures of the created world, the sedentary pleasure of sleep. The pleasures of life are everywhere you turn.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>My wife didn\u2019t read that, but I\u2019ll show it to her when I show her your book. She\u2019s very visual. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve said of my wife, \u201cWherever she goes, she makes things beautiful, either through her presence, or through her words, or through the art or the design that she creates and brings to an office, a room, a yard\u201d\u2014much to my chagrin\u2014I\u2019m a laborer for the deal!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But what you are saying is God made these pleasures for us to enjoy. They, in and of themselves, are not shameful. We shouldn\u2019t feel guilty for enjoying them. God made pleasure to be enjoyed. Yet, we, as human beings\u2014because we are broken\u2014have a way of twisting and turning the pleasure\u2014and putting it where you would put an idol\u2014on a pedestal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>In fact, I would say even more fully\u2014it actually brings God glory to celebrate the beauty that He\u2019s put into His creation\u2014to recognize how amazing it is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that my eyes can pick up this stuff\u2014these colors, and textures, and shapes\u2014that my ears hear with such distinction. I can hear discord, and I can hear harmony. I mean, those are wonders in and of themselves. To celebrate that, actually, gives God glory. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>God could have created a black and white world. He could have created us with eyes that only see a blur; but He made us so that we can experience the beauty and the wonder. We are sensate\u2014sensual creatures\u2014in how we live. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And one of the things you do, Paul, in your book, is you point out how we\u2014as God\u2019s creation \/ as creatures\u2014expect too much out of these sensations. We expect too much out of pleasure. You illustrate this with a series of stories of how men and women you\u2019ve counseled have gotten lost in their pursuit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou take a 13-year-old boy, who has the doors opened to him of sexual pleasure. Something connects in his brain, \u201cI feel alive when I\u2019m doing this.\u201d\u00a0 So, that becomes a theme in his life. Here\u2019s my concern. When I wrote this book, I\u2019m concerned about the 13-year-olds out there. What they don\u2019t realize they are doing is they are asking a particular kind of pleasure to provide something for them that it <em>can never<\/em> provide. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn so many cases, where I\u2019ve dealt with the aftermath\u2014with a 45-year-old guy \/ 45-year-old woman\u2014it\u2019s gone back to those early days where this pattern of addiction takes place because pleasure\u2014beautiful pleasure\u2014is put in a place it\u2019s never supposed to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Paul, I will often see people compartmentalize\u2014their spiritual life, and their money, and sex life\u2014over here. They don\u2019t see that there is a connection between the two.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they go to church on Sunday. They worship, and they read their Bible, and they love Jesus. Then, Monday, they don\u2019t see that there is a connection between what went on in church on Sunday and how they handle their money or how they handle sex throughout the rest of the week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Well, I think that\u2019s been one of the reasons why the church is losing this battle because we\u2019ve divided our world into things spiritual and things secular. That division doesn\u2019t exist!\u00a0 All of life is spiritual. In every moment of my life, I am in some stage of response to God\u2014ignoring Him, recognizing Him, rebelling against Him, submitting to Him. I\u2019m always living a God-ward life. It\u2019s impossible not to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, you can argue\u2014and I do in this book\u2014that the four most important words in the Bible are the first four, \u201cIn the beginning, God,\u201d because if God is on scene\u2014and He is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and everything belongs to Him, everything is created by Him, everything is invested with meaning and purpose by Him, everything has a plan that He has put into it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>So, what does that do for pleasure?\u00a0 Well, it means\u2014just think of one thing\u2014those pleasures never belonged to me\u2014they belong to God. Pleasure can\u2019t be boundless. It needs boundaries. God set boundaries for pleasure. So, once you begin with God as Creator, all of a sudden, the whole thing becomes spiritual. Everything has to do with God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here\u2019s what is important. Let\u2019s go back to children. My child doesn\u2019t know that. He doesn\u2019t know he is a worshiper. He doesn\u2019t know he\u2019ll put pleasure in the wrong place. He doesn\u2019t know that all of life belongs to God. He doesn\u2019t know that that sets all kinds of boundaries for his living. He knows none of those. Those are the mysteries of the universe that parents have to download to their children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not enough to say, \u201cNo, don\u2019t touch this girl in that way.\u201d\u00a0 You should say that, but it\u2019s got to be rooted in these deeper things\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that really define where the battle takes place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>One of the things you go on to say about pleasure is that your life of pleasure is protected by pleasure. Explain what you mean by that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s\u2014pleasure is made safe when every horizontal pleasure submits itself to a greater pleasure\u2014and it\u2019s the pleasure of God. If the quest\u2014if my first question in sex is not: \u201cWhat pleases me?\u201d but, \u201cWhat would please God in the way that I\u2019m involved in this?\u201d all of a sudden, the thing is protected in just a beautiful way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I say with my money\u2014[not]: \u201cHow can I use this money to bring whatever pleasure it is able to purchase for me?\u201d but say: \u201cHow would God be pleased by my use of this money?\u201d If I say to my relationship with that girl or that woman at work\u2014not: \u201cWhat would please me in this relationship?\u201d but: \u201cWhat would please God in the way I conduct myself in the certain relationship?\u201d\u2014I mean, you just get it\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that pleasure is always made safe when it\u2019s under the umbrella of a grander pleasure. And that\u2019s the pleasure of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019ll give you a good illustration of this. This past weekend, I was with a couple who, by the world\u2019s standards, would be considered wealthy; but the wife was smiling and taking great delight \/ great pleasure in trying to find ways that she could give more away\u2014to such a degree\u2014she\u2019s decided\u2014and I\u2019m not saying this needs to be everybody\u2019s marching orders\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>This is the conclusion she came to\u2014that if anyone asks her for money, she\u2019s going to give it to them. She had some incredible stories of people coming up to her in a store\u2014out of the clear blue\u2014asking her for money. Now, again, she\u2019s not lavishing vast amounts of money on people, but she\u2019s meeting some needs of people as she\u2019s going along the way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat kind of clicks with me, as you just made your statement, Paul, was that she started with God. \u201cThis has been given to us by God. I take great delight in Him. I want to please Him, and I\u2019m going to do that by doing what God says He loves\u2014a cheerful giver.\u201d\u00a0 So, she\u2019s delighting in God\u2019s pleasure of her giving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>And the other side is true too. If you are a Christian man\u2014and you\u2019ve begun a flirting relationship with a woman at work, and are beginning to sort of touch her arm, and those kinds of things\u2014moving in that direction\u2014you\u2019re not doing that because you\u2019re ignorant that that is wrong. You\u2019re doing that, at that point, because you don\u2019t give a rip of what\u2019s wrong because you want your pleasure. God is out of the picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why it\u2019s only that greater pleasure that will protect me because\u2014guess who I need to be rescued from?\u2014not my culture. I need to be rescued from me. A heart submitted to that greater pleasure is a heart rescued. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember having a dinner one time with our mutual friend, Dan Allender, and his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt had been a great meal. We kind of pushed back from the table. I said, \u201cThat was a great meal.\u201d\u00a0 Dan said, \u201cYou know, every time you have a great meal, it should be a trigger of how great heaven is going to be.\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cIt\u2019s just a picture of something that is infinitely greater that awaits us.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn Psalm 16, it says, \u201cAt His right hand, there are pleasures evermore.\u201d\u00a0 God is not a God who is stingy with pleasure; is He?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>No, He is not. And see, I think that what you\u2019re pointing to is another part of the conversation we need to have. It\u2019s that all of these physical glories actually have a very important spiritual function. It\u2019s not just that God made His world pleasurable. There is a purpose for all those pleasures. Every physical pleasure that God ever created\u2014wherever you encounter it\u2014is meant to be a finger that points you to the glory of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can stop at the pleasure. They\u2019re all functional. They are all meant\u2014I mean, if this rose is not just pink but, across its petal, is 700 shades of pink\u2014\u201cWhat must He be like who made that rose?\u201d\u00a0 If these wings of this hummingbird are inexhaustible\u2014\u201cWhat must this God be like who thought of that?\u201d\u00a0 If this sunset just <em>blows<\/em> my mind as it hits the horizon\u2014\u201cWhat must this God be like who made this?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s what all those things are meant to do. They are meant to be fingers that point you to the one place where your heart will be satisfied. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, the question for every listener right now is \u201cWhat or who do you worship?\u201d\u2014just a real quick throne check\u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s got center stage?\u00a0 What grabs your attention?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDoes God show up in the sunset, in the flower, in the smile of your child, in the delight of\u2014as we\u2019ve talked about\u2014a nice meal or a kiss?\u00a0 Question is: \u201cYour heart was made to worship. What are you filling it with?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that\u2019s not a question you just ask once and go, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ve got that resolved\u201d; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You ask that question over and over again. I think in reading the book, <em>Sex and Money<\/em>, we get a chance to examine two very good things that can lead us to idolatry. I\u2019d encourage our listeners, \u201cGet a copy of the book that Paul David Tripp has written, called <em>Sex and Money: Pleasures That Leave You Empty and Grace That Satisfies<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Click in the upper left-hand corner of the page where it says,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201cGO DEEPER.\u201d You can order the book online. Or you can order by phone. Call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know that one of the things that has helped Mary Ann and me wrestle with this issue of how we handle the issue of money, in particular, is the discipline of giving in our lives\u2014cultivating a heart of generosity\u2014wanting to be givers and wanting to support the work of the Kingdom. We still have a ways to go in that because, like you were saying, Paul, we are still wed to or tempted by the stuff of this world, thinking it will bring satisfaction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I just want to acknowledge the listeners who help support this radio program. We are listener-supported. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe could not do what we do if it weren\u2019t for listeners, like you, who pitch in and help cover the cost of producing and syndicating this daily program. We\u2019re grateful that, for more than 21 years now, we have had faithful, generous listeners who have said, \u201cThis program really does matter to us, and we want to help support it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, when you help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of a Bible study that we put together for couples. It\u2019s the<em> FamilyLife Bible Study for Couples<\/em>. It\u2019s designed for a husband and wife to go through together as you look at God\u2019s Word and see what it has to say about relationships. This is a Bible study that you can do either on your own or do with other couples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s our gift to you when you make a donation this month. Either go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014click the button in the upper right-hand corner that says, \u201cI CARE,\u201d and make an online donation there\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation over the phone\u2014or you can write a check and mail it to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,<em>\u2014<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014along with a note that says you\u2019d like the Bible study for couples. Send your check to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. And our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd let me encourage you to join us back again tomorrow. Paul David Tripp is going to be here again. We\u2019re going to continue to talk about how we wrestle with the idols of sex and money in our lives. Hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303095","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303095"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303095"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303095"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303095"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303095"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303095"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303095"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}