{"id":303079,"date":"2014-06-12T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-06-12T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/engaging-in-the-culture-war\/"},"modified":"2014-06-12T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-06-12T15:00:00","slug":"engaging-in-the-culture-war","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/engaging-in-the-culture-war\/","title":{"rendered":"Engaging in the Culture War"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ready! Set! Go! It&#8217;s time to engage your culture!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-12.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.33M","filesize_raw":"24464085","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2821],"tags":[5357],"podcast_series":[8017],"cwp_profile":[9341],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303079","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-reaching-out","tag-living-out-your-faith","podcast_series-god-less-america","cwp_profile-todd-starnes","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303079\/engaging-in-the-culture-war","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303079\/engaging-in-the-culture-war","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"D8QD4eYa5H\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/engaging-in-the-culture-war\/\">Engaging in the Culture War<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/engaging-in-the-culture-war\/embed\/#?secret=D8QD4eYa5H\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Engaging in the Culture War&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"D8QD4eYa5H\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-12.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-12.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Fox News contributor, Todd Starnes, believes that religious liberties in the United States are eroding; but he says as we stand for our freedom, we must stand with truth and grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Just a few weeks ago, I was a guest on a Christian program. The host started speaking disparagingly about a very well-known atheist and suggested that this atheist should befall some violence. I immediately ended the interview and told the host that we don\u2019t do that, as Christians. We must stand firm in the faith, but we must do so with grace and love\u2014not harm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, June 12<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. It\u2019s not surprising that our worldview would clash with the culture. The question is: \u201cHow do we represent Jesus best as we interact with those with whom we disagree?\u201d\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk about that today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I was thinking about our topic today, and here is what came to mind\u2014that concluding point in the introduction to the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus has just gone through talking about God\u2019s blessing being with the poor, and with the meek, and with all kinds of people. Then, He wraps it up by saying: \u201cBlessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you. You should rejoice and be glad in that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, \u201cI think we are getting more opportunities to rejoice and be glad in our day than I think I\u2019ve ever experienced before.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think, if we don\u2019t know how to stand in the midst of persecution and opposition,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we better get our armor on and know how to do it because, if it hadn\u2019t already come to your neighborhood, it will soon. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have with us a warrior, certainly, on Fox News. Todd Starnes joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Todd, welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Thank you very much for having me. Appreciate it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Todd is the host of Fox News and Commentary, heard daily on 400 stations across the country. He has just written a book called <em>God Less America<\/em>. I didn\u2019t say, \u201cGod Bless America.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No, the \u201cB\u201d is kind of shaded out here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is kind of shaded out, and it\u2019s <em>God Less America<\/em>. And it\u2019s: <em>Real Stories From the Front Lines of the Attack on Traditional Values<\/em>. You had a conversation, the other day, Todd\u2014that kind of typifies what this book is about. You talked to Rick Warren. He made an interesting observation about what Bob mentioned earlier. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. Pastor Warren was walking the hallways, over at the Fox News corner of the world\u2014there in Midtown Manhattan.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe told me that he believes that this issue of religious liberty is going to be <em>the<\/em> civil rights issue of our generation. And I believe\u2014at least in the stories that I\u2019ve covered, over the past five years or so, in the culture war\u2014I believe that he is absolutely right. I believe that we are on an expedited route to that being <em>the <\/em>issue of our generation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, you just used a phrase that a lot of younger listeners heard you use. They heard you say, \u201cCulture war.\u201d They just rolled their eyes; and they said: \u201cOh, here we go again. I\u2019m <em>so<\/em> sick of hearing about the culture war. Can we just drop that?\u201d\u00a0 You\u2019ve heard that from younger people; haven\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Oh, sure; absolutely. As a matter of fact, I think many churches across our country have shied away from talking about these issues because of that phrase, \u201cthe culture war.\u201d It reminds people of, perhaps, a time in the late 70s and early 80s\u2014the time of the moral majority\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014when churches were so consumed with those issues that they really didn\u2019t do anything else. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, as a result of that\u2014many churches have just totally shied away. In the process of doing so, I believe that they have actually removed themselves from the culture. I have a line in the book that, in this day and age, churches are so concerned about being culturally relevant that they\u2019ve become spiritually irrelevant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, the Sermon on the Mount\u2014back to what Bob quoted earlier\u2014Jesus goes on to say that we\u2019re called to be salt and light. A light\u2019s got to shine, and salt has got to be pressed into the culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> But we\u2019ve got to acknowledge that a lot of churches\u2014a lot of Christians\u2014have not been very effective. They\u2019ve not represented Jesus well trying to be salt and light. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>To be perfectly honest, many Christians are on a salt-free diet these days. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s right; but they haven\u2019t modeled Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, when John described how Jesus came,\u201d\u2026and we beheld His glory full of grace and truth,\u201d\u2014and it was with forgiveness and compassion as well as the standard. Christ was the standard bearer, but He was also\u2014He also had a great heart for people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSomehow, in the midst of the culture wars\u2014that you referred to earlier\u2014in the 70s and 80s\u2014I think we were known too much for the standard side and the truth side and not enough for the grace, and forgiveness, and compassion side. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Oh my goodness. It looked like a Wednesday night church business meeting a lot of times. [Laughter]\u00a0 There was a lot of hollering and shouting\u2014just a lot of mean folks!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, and yet, we can\u2019t\u2014in the midst of what\u2019s going on\u2014we can\u2019t drop our guard and go on the salt-free diet that you\u2019re talking about. I think that\u2019s where the pendulum swings in the other direction. People say, \u201cWell, we\u2019re just not going to talk about this stuff.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Well, you\u2019re absolutely right. You know, just a few weeks ago, I was a guest on a Christian program. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe host started speaking disparagingly about a very well-known atheist and suggested that this atheist should befall some violence. I immediately ended the interview and told the host that we don\u2019t do that, as Christians. We must stand firm in the faith; but we must do so with grace and love\u2014not harm.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, Bob grew up in Saint Louis. I grew up in a small town in Southwest Missouri. I didn\u2019t have a complete <em>Leave It to Beaver<\/em> childhood back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, where I grew up; but it was a community that supported what you\u2019d call traditional values. Bob had the same thing in Saint Louis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You grew up in northern Mississippi\u2014smaller town there. Same thing for you; I assume?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>It was. And again, it wasn\u2019t a Mayberry-type of growing up time for me; but there was a sense of community and a sense of shared values. It didn\u2019t matter if you were a Baptist, or a Methodist, or a Catholic.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe sort of had this idea that we were one nation under God, and we had certain shared values within that community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what happened, Todd?\u00a0 I mean, where did we take the turn toward the wrong side of the tracks\u2014where America got off and left God and decided it wanted to be its own god?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Well, you know, I was\u2014one day, I was sitting in my apartment in Brooklyn. I live among a very liberal group of people\u2014I sort of feel like I\u2019m on a missionary field, if you will. I got to thinking, \u201cYou know, I really feel like I\u2019m this <em>Duck Dynasty<\/em> guy living in a Miley Cyrus world.\u201d [Laughter] You know, where what\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m trying to picture that for just a second. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>It\u2019s a frightening concept. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m sorry that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>I apologize for the visuals. [Laughter]\u00a0 I just curdled someone\u2019s Fruit Loops\u2014my apologies! [Laughter]\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we do live in this society now, where what was right is now wrong \/ what is wrong is right. It seems as though the world is topsy-turvy. You know, we\u2014I suspect\u2014and I think a lot of folks will agree with this\u2014that, unfortunately, we put our trust in political parties rather than the Lord. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I try to explain and convey in the book, we need people\u2014as a Hispanic pastor, outside of Chicago, said: \u201cWe need people that do not want to bow down to the Republican elephant or the Democratic donkey. We need people willing to bow down to the Lion of Judah.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd one of the things that I\u2019ve discovered in my research into this issue is that\u2014dating back to the Eisenhower years, when the Supreme Court really started addressing these big culture war decisions like prayer in school, for example\u2014every single one of those decisions\u2014most recently, the Defense of Marriage Act\u2014every decision was made by Justices appointed by Republican presidents\u2014not Democrat presidents\u2014but Republican presidents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>And for me, that was an eye-opener because, if you believe what\u2019s being said out there, one political party stands for family values and American traditional values and the other does not. That\u2019s not necessarily the case. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, I\u2019ve had people tell me, for years, that there is a day coming for our country when a pastor who stands up and says, \u201cHere is what the Bible teaches about marriage\u201d\u2014or for that matter, Dennis and me, on the radio, talking about: \u201cHere\u2019s what the Bible teaches about marriage,\u201d\u2014we may get arrested. And I think to myself, \u201cThat\u2019s an alarmist kind of \u2018The sky is falling\u2019\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, it used to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you think we\u2019ll live to see that day?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Yes. To give you an example\u2014just recently, the Chief Executive Officer for Mozilla, which is a technology company\u2014Firefox\u2014the man who runs that company created JavaScript\u2014was a part of that creation process. He gave a donation, back in 2008, to the Proposition 8 campaign\u2014the campaign to define marriage in California. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJust recently, that came out\u2014that revelation that he gave that donation, as a private citizen, came out. Now, there are protests and boycotts directed at his company, demanding that he be fired because he supported traditional marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf that happens, at that level, you better believe that something like that\u2019s going to happen at the church level. And here is the reason why\u2014we are seeing private companies and businesses facing lawsuits\u2014facing persecution for refusing to give in to their religious beliefs, specifically on the issue of gay marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is going to come a time when someone finally says: \u201cWell, wait a second. Where are people getting all of this information about this belief system about marriage?\u201d\u00a0 Well, that\u2019s\u2014they are going to look at the Bible. When they look at the Bible, I believe that they\u2019re going to have to start putting limitations\u2014they\u2019re going to have to start curtailing religious freedom\u2014all for the sake of tolerance and diversity here in the United States. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But we\u2019ve got this First Amendment that is supposed to protect us from that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>But the courts are saying over and over again\u2014and these are lower courts and these battles are going to end up at the Supreme Court\u2014but right now, the courts are telling us that gay rights trump religious rights. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Just let that hang in the air for a second. You\u2019re saying that the First Amendment is trumped by the rights of homosexuals. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>That\u2019s correct. In a case in New Mexico, where a Christian photographer and her husband faced discrimination charges, the court, in essence, said that you have to be willing to give up some of your First Amendment rights so that you don\u2019t discriminate against another people group. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That really was what Chuck Colson saw coming a few years back when he crafted the Manhattan Declaration and took on three issues. He took on, obviously, the value of life; secondly, our religious freedoms; and third, the sanctity of marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe called the community of faith together and said, \u201cWill you stand firm on these?\u2014because these issues are coming at us from the culture left and right.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>They are. It\u2019s really\u2014it\u2019s really causing a number of Christians to step back and start asking: \u201cWell, how do we respond to this?\u00a0 What happens if they come after us?\u00a0 What are we going to do?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the stories that really hits home for me\u2014a family out in Oregon\u2014the Cline family. They run a bakery\u2014a mom-and-pop bakery\u2014called Sweet Cakes by Melissa. They have three children. A gay couple came in and asked for them to make a wedding cake. They declined to do so. This family found themselves under an investigation by government officials. They found themselves facing protests and boycotts by gay rights activists. Their children received death threats\u2014death threats\u2014all because this family would not make that wedding cake. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey said, \u201cWe\u2019ll make anything else in the store for you\u2014brownies, a sheet cake\u2014but we cannot make a wedding cake.\u201d\u00a0 That was not good enough. As a result of that, the couple had to shut down their retail store. Now, they operate their business out of their home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now, your colleague at Fox News, Kirsten Powers, said: \u201cThat couple should have made that wedding cake. Jesus would have made that wedding cake.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>And there are those who say that those of us who support traditional marriage are bigots \/ racists. Jim Crow racist, I believe, is a phrase that\u2019s been used. And this is why this is very disturbing because, once an argument reaches that level\u2014where you are labeled a racist\u2014you can\u2019t debate that. You cannot win that argument. So, in essence, the argument has already been lost. That\u2019s why I believe Christians need to start taking a stand\u2014doing so in a spirit of love\u2014but they need to take a stand. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when Kirsten says, \u201cJust make the cake!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThat\u2019s how you love these folks\u2014is you make a cake for them\u2014a wedding cake.\u201d What do you say to her?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Well, Miss Powers is not the only one out there making those kinds of statements. There are\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There are pastors who are doing that as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>\u2014evangelical Christian pastors, mind you. Look, I\u2019ve had ministers tell me: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 We\u2019re not going to get involved in this because that\u2019s not our thing. We\u2019re focusing our ministry on \u2018x,\u2019 \u2018y,\u2019 and \u2018z.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ve had ministers say that: \u201cIn the grand scheme of things, this is not an issue they want to address because it might hurt their ministry.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes\u2014and just\u2014I don\u2019t operate in your world, which is a good bit of a sound-bite world. I mean, answers come in 45-second to 90-second chunks. If it has to be reasoned, from a worldview perspective, there is simply not time to sit down on the news and reason with people from the Bible about why you believe what you believe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat are followers of Christ to do as they operate in the marketplace?\u2014because their careers, their businesses, and in some ways, their families and their children are going to be pressed into this battle. They\u2019re going to have to know how to stand\u2014any advice for them about how to do it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Yes, they need to be prepared to suffer the consequences for their faith. I tell a story in the book about Sergeant Phillip Monk. He is in the Air Force, lives in San Antonio, and works at Lackland Air Force Base\u2014a wife and three sons. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe was working with his commander\u2014a new commander\u2014and she is a lesbian. One of the underlings said something that the commander felt was offensive to gays. She was discussing with Sergeant Monk the punishment. He suggested that this deserved a good talking to\u2014and in Air Force language\u2014that meant he was going to be read the Riot Act. But the commander wanted a much harsher punishment that would have really penalized this underling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause the sergeant disagreed, the commander stopped the conversation. She looked directly at Sergeant Monk; and she said, \u201cWhere do you stand on the issue of gay marriage?\u201d\u00a0 He refused to answer that question. And his silence\u2014she took his silence to mean that he was opposed to gay marriage. Sergeant Monk, who was a Southern Baptist\u2014a member of the local Baptist congregation\u2014found himself relieved of his duties as a result of that situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believe we are going to see a lot more Sergeant Monks out there, just like the Chief Executive of Mozilla, just like the head of the Sacramento or the California Theater Company, who supported Prop 8 and found himself out of a job, just like an educator in Baltimore who signed a petition\u2014signed a petition to support traditional marriage. As a result, was relieved of her duties, moving forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You don\u2019t know this; but last summer, when the Supreme Court ruling came out for DOMA, I wrote an email to our constituent base, here at FamilyLife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI didn\u2019t have any hate speech. There was no targeting any group. It was just a statement that I made that I stand for biblical marriage, and I was grieved by the Supreme Court\u2019s decision. I was saddened by it and what it will mean for our country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a result, I received over 300 emails\u2014that in various ways, not only asked to be removed from our mailing list, but also referring to me as the kind of example of Christianity that they wanted to have nothing to do with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want you to know that I\u2019d intentionally been compassionate, loving, filled with grace\u2014not pointing out anybody\u2019s sin or throwing a stone at any group of people. I was just attempting to stand for\u2014and I did, and I still am\u2014for marriage as God designed it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think more of that kind of thing is going to come at us from various circles. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>And I believe you are absolutely right, Dennis. Last year, I received an email from a Christian serving in the military. It said, \u201cMr. Starnes, you are not going to believe what they are trying to teach us.\u201d\u00a0 Military personnel have to go through equal opportunity training\u2014you know\u2014the tolerance and diversity training. In the course of this training, the instructor put up a series of slides. On the slides, they identified domestic hate groups and examples of religious extremism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, according to the military\u2014and they sent us a photograph of the slide. We tell this story, and it\u2019s just <em>mind boggling<\/em>\u2014but according to the military, examples of religious extremism include evangelical Christianity and Catholicism. Then, they listed several well-known evangelical Christian ministries out there\u2014the Family Research Council, the American Family Association\u2014as examples of domestic hate groups. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They\u2019d gotten this from the Southern Poverty Law\u2014what is it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>The Southern Poverty Law Center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>So, we did the stories. The military said: \u201cWell, these were isolated incidents. We lost track of the number of isolated incidents that came to our attention as a result of this.\u201d\u00a0 But you have to ask the question: \u201cWhy are they doing that?\u00a0 Why would they do something like that?\u00a0 Why would they say that what\u2019s happening down at the local First Baptist Church or the local Fellowship Bible Church is somehow an example of extremism?\u201d\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Well, I believe that, if we continue down this trajectory, that we are going to see pastors arrested. We are going to see sermons shut down\u2014people accused of hate speech. And what better way to shut down those churches and to padlock those churches than to teach our soldiers\u2014these 17-, 18-, 19-year-old kids\u2014that what\u2019s happening in those churches is an example of religious extremism?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I want to take it back to how Bob began the broadcast when he quoted the conclusion to, at least, the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus said: \u201cBlessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on My account. Rejoice and be glad for your reward is great in heaven for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the message of today\u2019s broadcast is, regardless of where you are in life, you better determine what you believe and you better come back to the cross of Jesus Christ because that\u2019s where death was defeated. That\u2019s where God showed up; and He made the statement about His love and His forgiveness. He calls us to be cross-bearers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI spent some time, this past weekend, on the phone with a spiritual mentor of mine, H.D. McCarty. I called him on the phone about another matter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said: \u201cDennis, I don\u2019t hear enough about the cross of Jesus Christ being preached today. We need to go back to the foot of the cross and call people to deny themselves, pick up their cross, and come after Christ and follow Him.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll you\u2019ve got to do is look\u2014what did they do to Christ?\u00a0 Well, they crucified Him. I think, today, as never before, we need to be\u2014we need to be standing firm, first of all, but then, we need to be passing this on to our kids. We can\u2019t let them become indoctrinated or brain washed by an education system or an entertainment or media system that would take them off track to another worldview\u2014away from the Bible\u2014that doesn\u2019t have convictions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it is game time. I think it is very, very important that we stand firm and strong on what the Bible teaches about, well, the major institutions God made. And one of them is marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I think it\u2019s as important for us to think about how we stand firm as it is to stand firm. We have to be grounded in the truth; but then, we have to ask the question: \u201cHow do I represent Christ well while I do not waiver?\u00a0 How do I stand with truth, in grace?\u201d and, \u201cHow can I communicate that to the culture around me?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think a lot of people, Todd, are going to read your book, <em>God Less America<\/em>. The first impulse is just to get angry; but we have to pull back and go, \u201cFirst of all, is there anything we can learn from our opponents\u2014from those with whom we disagree?\u201d\u00a0 Let\u2019s be humble enough to learn from folks. Then, secondly, \u201cHow can we engage with folks in a way that represents Christ well rather than just getting angry or frustrated?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do have copies of Todd\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. It\u2019s called <em>God Less America<\/em>. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy of the book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com to get a copy of the book, <em>God Less America<\/em>, by Todd Starnes. Or you can call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 Ask about the book, <em>God Less America<\/em>, when you get in touch with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we had a lot of people who contacted us last week about the special offer on the <em>Stepping Up<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> ten-week series for guys. Apparently, a lot of guys are going to be doing this, this summer, with a group of friends or with other dads and their sons going through the ten-part DVD series on <em>Stepping Up<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of the reason they contacted us is because, this month, our team has agreed that, if you\u2019ll get the DVDs, we\u2019ll send you manuals for the five guys who you have joining you. It\u2019s our way of saying: \u201cLet\u2019s work together on making this happen this summer.\u201d\u00a0 Get a group of guys together \/ go through <em>Stepping Up<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou buy the DVDs; we\u2019ll send you manuals for the five guys you invite over. Get the details when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link that says, \u201cGo Deeper.\u201d\u00a0 All the information you need about the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> series is available right there as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we are going to talk more about the erosion of religious liberty\u2014religious free speech\u2014in our country. Todd Starnes will be our guest. Hope you can be back with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.33M"],"filesize_raw":["24464085"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303079.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303079.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Set! Go! It's time to engage your culture!","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Fox News contributor, Todd Starnes, believes that religious liberties in the United States are eroding; but he says as we stand for our freedom, we must stand with truth and grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Just a few weeks ago, I was a guest on a Christian program. The host started speaking disparagingly about a very well-known atheist and suggested that this atheist should befall some violence. I immediately ended the interview and told the host that we don\u2019t do that, as Christians. We must stand firm in the faith, but we must do so with grace and love\u2014not harm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, June 12<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. It\u2019s not surprising that our worldview would clash with the culture. The question is: \u201cHow do we represent Jesus best as we interact with those with whom we disagree?\u201d\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk about that today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I was thinking about our topic today, and here is what came to mind\u2014that concluding point in the introduction to the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus has just gone through talking about God\u2019s blessing being with the poor, and with the meek, and with all kinds of people. Then, He wraps it up by saying: \u201cBlessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you. You should rejoice and be glad in that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, \u201cI think we are getting more opportunities to rejoice and be glad in our day than I think I\u2019ve ever experienced before.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think, if we don\u2019t know how to stand in the midst of persecution and opposition,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we better get our armor on and know how to do it because, if it hadn\u2019t already come to your neighborhood, it will soon. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have with us a warrior, certainly, on Fox News. Todd Starnes joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Todd, welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Thank you very much for having me. Appreciate it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Todd is the host of Fox News and Commentary, heard daily on 400 stations across the country. He has just written a book called <em>God Less America<\/em>. I didn\u2019t say, \u201cGod Bless America.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No, the \u201cB\u201d is kind of shaded out here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is kind of shaded out, and it\u2019s <em>God Less America<\/em>. And it\u2019s: <em>Real Stories From the Front Lines of the Attack on Traditional Values<\/em>. You had a conversation, the other day, Todd\u2014that kind of typifies what this book is about. You talked to Rick Warren. He made an interesting observation about what Bob mentioned earlier. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. Pastor Warren was walking the hallways, over at the Fox News corner of the world\u2014there in Midtown Manhattan.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe told me that he believes that this issue of religious liberty is going to be <em>the<\/em> civil rights issue of our generation. And I believe\u2014at least in the stories that I\u2019ve covered, over the past five years or so, in the culture war\u2014I believe that he is absolutely right. I believe that we are on an expedited route to that being <em>the <\/em>issue of our generation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, you just used a phrase that a lot of younger listeners heard you use. They heard you say, \u201cCulture war.\u201d They just rolled their eyes; and they said: \u201cOh, here we go again. I\u2019m <em>so<\/em> sick of hearing about the culture war. Can we just drop that?\u201d\u00a0 You\u2019ve heard that from younger people; haven\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Oh, sure; absolutely. As a matter of fact, I think many churches across our country have shied away from talking about these issues because of that phrase, \u201cthe culture war.\u201d It reminds people of, perhaps, a time in the late 70s and early 80s\u2014the time of the moral majority\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014when churches were so consumed with those issues that they really didn\u2019t do anything else. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, as a result of that\u2014many churches have just totally shied away. In the process of doing so, I believe that they have actually removed themselves from the culture. I have a line in the book that, in this day and age, churches are so concerned about being culturally relevant that they\u2019ve become spiritually irrelevant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, the Sermon on the Mount\u2014back to what Bob quoted earlier\u2014Jesus goes on to say that we\u2019re called to be salt and light. A light\u2019s got to shine, and salt has got to be pressed into the culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> But we\u2019ve got to acknowledge that a lot of churches\u2014a lot of Christians\u2014have not been very effective. They\u2019ve not represented Jesus well trying to be salt and light. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>To be perfectly honest, many Christians are on a salt-free diet these days. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s right; but they haven\u2019t modeled Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, when John described how Jesus came,\u201d\u2026and we beheld His glory full of grace and truth,\u201d\u2014and it was with forgiveness and compassion as well as the standard. Christ was the standard bearer, but He was also\u2014He also had a great heart for people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSomehow, in the midst of the culture wars\u2014that you referred to earlier\u2014in the 70s and 80s\u2014I think we were known too much for the standard side and the truth side and not enough for the grace, and forgiveness, and compassion side. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Oh my goodness. It looked like a Wednesday night church business meeting a lot of times. [Laughter]\u00a0 There was a lot of hollering and shouting\u2014just a lot of mean folks!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, and yet, we can\u2019t\u2014in the midst of what\u2019s going on\u2014we can\u2019t drop our guard and go on the salt-free diet that you\u2019re talking about. I think that\u2019s where the pendulum swings in the other direction. People say, \u201cWell, we\u2019re just not going to talk about this stuff.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Well, you\u2019re absolutely right. You know, just a few weeks ago, I was a guest on a Christian program. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe host started speaking disparagingly about a very well-known atheist and suggested that this atheist should befall some violence. I immediately ended the interview and told the host that we don\u2019t do that, as Christians. We must stand firm in the faith; but we must do so with grace and love\u2014not harm.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, Bob grew up in Saint Louis. I grew up in a small town in Southwest Missouri. I didn\u2019t have a complete <em>Leave It to Beaver<\/em> childhood back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, where I grew up; but it was a community that supported what you\u2019d call traditional values. Bob had the same thing in Saint Louis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You grew up in northern Mississippi\u2014smaller town there. Same thing for you; I assume?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>It was. And again, it wasn\u2019t a Mayberry-type of growing up time for me; but there was a sense of community and a sense of shared values. It didn\u2019t matter if you were a Baptist, or a Methodist, or a Catholic.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe sort of had this idea that we were one nation under God, and we had certain shared values within that community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what happened, Todd?\u00a0 I mean, where did we take the turn toward the wrong side of the tracks\u2014where America got off and left God and decided it wanted to be its own god?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Well, you know, I was\u2014one day, I was sitting in my apartment in Brooklyn. I live among a very liberal group of people\u2014I sort of feel like I\u2019m on a missionary field, if you will. I got to thinking, \u201cYou know, I really feel like I\u2019m this <em>Duck Dynasty<\/em> guy living in a Miley Cyrus world.\u201d [Laughter] You know, where what\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m trying to picture that for just a second. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>It\u2019s a frightening concept. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m sorry that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>I apologize for the visuals. [Laughter]\u00a0 I just curdled someone\u2019s Fruit Loops\u2014my apologies! [Laughter]\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we do live in this society now, where what was right is now wrong \/ what is wrong is right. It seems as though the world is topsy-turvy. You know, we\u2014I suspect\u2014and I think a lot of folks will agree with this\u2014that, unfortunately, we put our trust in political parties rather than the Lord. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I try to explain and convey in the book, we need people\u2014as a Hispanic pastor, outside of Chicago, said: \u201cWe need people that do not want to bow down to the Republican elephant or the Democratic donkey. We need people willing to bow down to the Lion of Judah.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd one of the things that I\u2019ve discovered in my research into this issue is that\u2014dating back to the Eisenhower years, when the Supreme Court really started addressing these big culture war decisions like prayer in school, for example\u2014every single one of those decisions\u2014most recently, the Defense of Marriage Act\u2014every decision was made by Justices appointed by Republican presidents\u2014not Democrat presidents\u2014but Republican presidents. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>And for me, that was an eye-opener because, if you believe what\u2019s being said out there, one political party stands for family values and American traditional values and the other does not. That\u2019s not necessarily the case. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, I\u2019ve had people tell me, for years, that there is a day coming for our country when a pastor who stands up and says, \u201cHere is what the Bible teaches about marriage\u201d\u2014or for that matter, Dennis and me, on the radio, talking about: \u201cHere\u2019s what the Bible teaches about marriage,\u201d\u2014we may get arrested. And I think to myself, \u201cThat\u2019s an alarmist kind of \u2018The sky is falling\u2019\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, it used to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you think we\u2019ll live to see that day?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Yes. To give you an example\u2014just recently, the Chief Executive Officer for Mozilla, which is a technology company\u2014Firefox\u2014the man who runs that company created JavaScript\u2014was a part of that creation process. He gave a donation, back in 2008, to the Proposition 8 campaign\u2014the campaign to define marriage in California. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJust recently, that came out\u2014that revelation that he gave that donation, as a private citizen, came out. Now, there are protests and boycotts directed at his company, demanding that he be fired because he supported traditional marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf that happens, at that level, you better believe that something like that\u2019s going to happen at the church level. And here is the reason why\u2014we are seeing private companies and businesses facing lawsuits\u2014facing persecution for refusing to give in to their religious beliefs, specifically on the issue of gay marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is going to come a time when someone finally says: \u201cWell, wait a second. Where are people getting all of this information about this belief system about marriage?\u201d\u00a0 Well, that\u2019s\u2014they are going to look at the Bible. When they look at the Bible, I believe that they\u2019re going to have to start putting limitations\u2014they\u2019re going to have to start curtailing religious freedom\u2014all for the sake of tolerance and diversity here in the United States. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But we\u2019ve got this First Amendment that is supposed to protect us from that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>But the courts are saying over and over again\u2014and these are lower courts and these battles are going to end up at the Supreme Court\u2014but right now, the courts are telling us that gay rights trump religious rights. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Just let that hang in the air for a second. You\u2019re saying that the First Amendment is trumped by the rights of homosexuals. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>That\u2019s correct. In a case in New Mexico, where a Christian photographer and her husband faced discrimination charges, the court, in essence, said that you have to be willing to give up some of your First Amendment rights so that you don\u2019t discriminate against another people group. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That really was what Chuck Colson saw coming a few years back when he crafted the Manhattan Declaration and took on three issues. He took on, obviously, the value of life; secondly, our religious freedoms; and third, the sanctity of marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe called the community of faith together and said, \u201cWill you stand firm on these?\u2014because these issues are coming at us from the culture left and right.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>They are. It\u2019s really\u2014it\u2019s really causing a number of Christians to step back and start asking: \u201cWell, how do we respond to this?\u00a0 What happens if they come after us?\u00a0 What are we going to do?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the stories that really hits home for me\u2014a family out in Oregon\u2014the Cline family. They run a bakery\u2014a mom-and-pop bakery\u2014called Sweet Cakes by Melissa. They have three children. A gay couple came in and asked for them to make a wedding cake. They declined to do so. This family found themselves under an investigation by government officials. They found themselves facing protests and boycotts by gay rights activists. Their children received death threats\u2014death threats\u2014all because this family would not make that wedding cake. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey said, \u201cWe\u2019ll make anything else in the store for you\u2014brownies, a sheet cake\u2014but we cannot make a wedding cake.\u201d\u00a0 That was not good enough. As a result of that, the couple had to shut down their retail store. Now, they operate their business out of their home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now, your colleague at Fox News, Kirsten Powers, said: \u201cThat couple should have made that wedding cake. Jesus would have made that wedding cake.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>And there are those who say that those of us who support traditional marriage are bigots \/ racists. Jim Crow racist, I believe, is a phrase that\u2019s been used. And this is why this is very disturbing because, once an argument reaches that level\u2014where you are labeled a racist\u2014you can\u2019t debate that. You cannot win that argument. So, in essence, the argument has already been lost. That\u2019s why I believe Christians need to start taking a stand\u2014doing so in a spirit of love\u2014but they need to take a stand. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when Kirsten says, \u201cJust make the cake!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThat\u2019s how you love these folks\u2014is you make a cake for them\u2014a wedding cake.\u201d What do you say to her?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Well, Miss Powers is not the only one out there making those kinds of statements. There are\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There are pastors who are doing that as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>\u2014evangelical Christian pastors, mind you. Look, I\u2019ve had ministers tell me: \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 We\u2019re not going to get involved in this because that\u2019s not our thing. We\u2019re focusing our ministry on \u2018x,\u2019 \u2018y,\u2019 and \u2018z.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ve had ministers say that: \u201cIn the grand scheme of things, this is not an issue they want to address because it might hurt their ministry.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes\u2014and just\u2014I don\u2019t operate in your world, which is a good bit of a sound-bite world. I mean, answers come in 45-second to 90-second chunks. If it has to be reasoned, from a worldview perspective, there is simply not time to sit down on the news and reason with people from the Bible about why you believe what you believe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat are followers of Christ to do as they operate in the marketplace?\u2014because their careers, their businesses, and in some ways, their families and their children are going to be pressed into this battle. They\u2019re going to have to know how to stand\u2014any advice for them about how to do it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>Yes, they need to be prepared to suffer the consequences for their faith. I tell a story in the book about Sergeant Phillip Monk. He is in the Air Force, lives in San Antonio, and works at Lackland Air Force Base\u2014a wife and three sons. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe was working with his commander\u2014a new commander\u2014and she is a lesbian. One of the underlings said something that the commander felt was offensive to gays. She was discussing with Sergeant Monk the punishment. He suggested that this deserved a good talking to\u2014and in Air Force language\u2014that meant he was going to be read the Riot Act. But the commander wanted a much harsher punishment that would have really penalized this underling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause the sergeant disagreed, the commander stopped the conversation. She looked directly at Sergeant Monk; and she said, \u201cWhere do you stand on the issue of gay marriage?\u201d\u00a0 He refused to answer that question. And his silence\u2014she took his silence to mean that he was opposed to gay marriage. Sergeant Monk, who was a Southern Baptist\u2014a member of the local Baptist congregation\u2014found himself relieved of his duties as a result of that situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believe we are going to see a lot more Sergeant Monks out there, just like the Chief Executive of Mozilla, just like the head of the Sacramento or the California Theater Company, who supported Prop 8 and found himself out of a job, just like an educator in Baltimore who signed a petition\u2014signed a petition to support traditional marriage. As a result, was relieved of her duties, moving forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You don\u2019t know this; but last summer, when the Supreme Court ruling came out for DOMA, I wrote an email to our constituent base, here at FamilyLife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI didn\u2019t have any hate speech. There was no targeting any group. It was just a statement that I made that I stand for biblical marriage, and I was grieved by the Supreme Court\u2019s decision. I was saddened by it and what it will mean for our country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a result, I received over 300 emails\u2014that in various ways, not only asked to be removed from our mailing list, but also referring to me as the kind of example of Christianity that they wanted to have nothing to do with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want you to know that I\u2019d intentionally been compassionate, loving, filled with grace\u2014not pointing out anybody\u2019s sin or throwing a stone at any group of people. I was just attempting to stand for\u2014and I did, and I still am\u2014for marriage as God designed it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think more of that kind of thing is going to come at us from various circles. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>And I believe you are absolutely right, Dennis. Last year, I received an email from a Christian serving in the military. It said, \u201cMr. Starnes, you are not going to believe what they are trying to teach us.\u201d\u00a0 Military personnel have to go through equal opportunity training\u2014you know\u2014the tolerance and diversity training. In the course of this training, the instructor put up a series of slides. On the slides, they identified domestic hate groups and examples of religious extremism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, according to the military\u2014and they sent us a photograph of the slide. We tell this story, and it\u2019s just <em>mind boggling<\/em>\u2014but according to the military, examples of religious extremism include evangelical Christianity and Catholicism. Then, they listed several well-known evangelical Christian ministries out there\u2014the Family Research Council, the American Family Association\u2014as examples of domestic hate groups. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They\u2019d gotten this from the Southern Poverty Law\u2014what is it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>The Southern Poverty Law Center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd: <\/strong>So, we did the stories. The military said: \u201cWell, these were isolated incidents. We lost track of the number of isolated incidents that came to our attention as a result of this.\u201d\u00a0 But you have to ask the question: \u201cWhy are they doing that?\u00a0 Why would they do something like that?\u00a0 Why would they say that what\u2019s happening down at the local First Baptist Church or the local Fellowship Bible Church is somehow an example of extremism?\u201d\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Well, I believe that, if we continue down this trajectory, that we are going to see pastors arrested. We are going to see sermons shut down\u2014people accused of hate speech. And what better way to shut down those churches and to padlock those churches than to teach our soldiers\u2014these 17-, 18-, 19-year-old kids\u2014that what\u2019s happening in those churches is an example of religious extremism?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I want to take it back to how Bob began the broadcast when he quoted the conclusion to, at least, the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus said: \u201cBlessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on My account. Rejoice and be glad for your reward is great in heaven for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the message of today\u2019s broadcast is, regardless of where you are in life, you better determine what you believe and you better come back to the cross of Jesus Christ because that\u2019s where death was defeated. That\u2019s where God showed up; and He made the statement about His love and His forgiveness. He calls us to be cross-bearers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI spent some time, this past weekend, on the phone with a spiritual mentor of mine, H.D. McCarty. I called him on the phone about another matter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said: \u201cDennis, I don\u2019t hear enough about the cross of Jesus Christ being preached today. We need to go back to the foot of the cross and call people to deny themselves, pick up their cross, and come after Christ and follow Him.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll you\u2019ve got to do is look\u2014what did they do to Christ?\u00a0 Well, they crucified Him. I think, today, as never before, we need to be\u2014we need to be standing firm, first of all, but then, we need to be passing this on to our kids. We can\u2019t let them become indoctrinated or brain washed by an education system or an entertainment or media system that would take them off track to another worldview\u2014away from the Bible\u2014that doesn\u2019t have convictions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it is game time. I think it is very, very important that we stand firm and strong on what the Bible teaches about, well, the major institutions God made. And one of them is marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I think it\u2019s as important for us to think about how we stand firm as it is to stand firm. We have to be grounded in the truth; but then, we have to ask the question: \u201cHow do I represent Christ well while I do not waiver?\u00a0 How do I stand with truth, in grace?\u201d and, \u201cHow can I communicate that to the culture around me?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think a lot of people, Todd, are going to read your book, <em>God Less America<\/em>. The first impulse is just to get angry; but we have to pull back and go, \u201cFirst of all, is there anything we can learn from our opponents\u2014from those with whom we disagree?\u201d\u00a0 Let\u2019s be humble enough to learn from folks. Then, secondly, \u201cHow can we engage with folks in a way that represents Christ well rather than just getting angry or frustrated?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do have copies of Todd\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. It\u2019s called <em>God Less America<\/em>. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy of the book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com to get a copy of the book, <em>God Less America<\/em>, by Todd Starnes. Or you can call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 Ask about the book, <em>God Less America<\/em>, when you get in touch with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we had a lot of people who contacted us last week about the special offer on the <em>Stepping Up<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> ten-week series for guys. Apparently, a lot of guys are going to be doing this, this summer, with a group of friends or with other dads and their sons going through the ten-part DVD series on <em>Stepping Up<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of the reason they contacted us is because, this month, our team has agreed that, if you\u2019ll get the DVDs, we\u2019ll send you manuals for the five guys who you have joining you. It\u2019s our way of saying: \u201cLet\u2019s work together on making this happen this summer.\u201d\u00a0 Get a group of guys together \/ go through <em>Stepping Up<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou buy the DVDs; we\u2019ll send you manuals for the five guys you invite over. Get the details when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link that says, \u201cGo Deeper.\u201d\u00a0 All the information you need about the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> series is available right there as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we are going to talk more about the erosion of religious liberty\u2014religious free speech\u2014in our country. Todd Starnes will be our guest. Hope you can be back with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303079","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303079"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303079"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303079"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303079"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303079"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303079"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303079"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}