{"id":303067,"date":"2014-06-04T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-06-04T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/acknowledging-father-wounds\/"},"modified":"2014-06-04T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2014-06-04T15:00:00","slug":"acknowledging-father-wounds","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/acknowledging-father-wounds\/","title":{"rendered":"Acknowledging Father Wounds"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Are memories of your father good or bad?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-04.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.35M","filesize_raw":"23437974","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2830,2837],"tags":[2107,4276],"podcast_series":[8016],"cwp_profile":[9340],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303067","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-children-of-divorce","category-fathers","tag-father-wound","tag-legacy","podcast_series-bad-dads-of-the-bible","cwp_profile-roland-warren","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303067\/acknowledging-father-wounds","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303067\/acknowledging-father-wounds","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"oJY2Sg99Gk\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/acknowledging-father-wounds\/\">Acknowledging Father Wounds<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/acknowledging-father-wounds\/embed\/#?secret=oJY2Sg99Gk\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Acknowledging Father Wounds&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"oJY2Sg99Gk\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-04.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-04.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It was not long ago that Roland Warren got a fresh reminder of why our relationship with our earthly father is so significant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>My wife had a friend of hers whom she had taken out to lunch some years ago. She said, \u201cCan I bless the meal?\u201d\u00a0 She said, \u201cSure.\u201d\u00a0 My wife launches into this prayer\u2014she starts, \u201cDear Heavenly Father,\u201d and she goes through. When she\u2019s done, she looks up at her friend. Her friend has this very strange look on her face. She said to her, \u201cWell, I hope the prayer was okay.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe woman says: \u201cNo, the prayer was wonderful. I just could never pray that prayer because my father was such a\u2026\u201d\u2014insert your curse word here. I thought: \u201cMy gosh! Earthly fathers can be a stumbling block for someone connecting with a heavenly reality. See, if you don\u2019t care about this fatherhood issue\u2014just for all the social science reasons\u2014you should care about it because it has an eternal impact. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, June 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou may never, in this life, be perfect like your Heavenly Father is perfect; but it still makes sense for you to be as good a dad as you can be. We\u2019re going to talk about that today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I get tripped up on this \u201cbad\u201d\u2014the word bad. I just\u2014I never know what to make of it anymore; you know?\u00a0 Somebody says, \u201cMan, that was bad.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I just don\u2019t know what they are talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It could be good!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I saw this book, <em>Bad Dads of the Bible<\/em>. I thought, \u201cSo, are they bad; or are they bad?\u201d\u00a0 You know?\u00a0 I don\u2019t know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think they are bad. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; alright. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think they are bad, and they are not all that bad. They still passed on some good legacies. Let me just give our male listeners a heads-up\u2014and maybe some moms, too, who are listening as well, looking out for the next generation. What we\u2019re going to talk about today is going to motivate you to want to do something about being a man\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014if you\u2019re a man\u2014because the guy we are about to introduce to you is electrifying. He\u2019s going to <em>motivate<\/em> you. Roland Warren joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Roland, welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Well, delighted to be here, Dennis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Roland is the current President and CEO of Care Net which is the nation\u2019s largest network of pregnancy resource centers. He\u2019s appeared on Oprah\u2019s show, <em>The Today Show<\/em>, <em>Dateline NBC<\/em>, Fox News Channel, and written for T<em>he<\/em> <em>Washington Post<\/em> and <em>The Wall Street<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And now, he\u2019s reached the pinnacle of his media career. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014<em>Wall Street Journal<\/em>, and now, <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>It was all a climb to get to you, Dennis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It was. It was. [Laughter]\u00a0 He lives in Maryland with his wife, Yvette; and together, they have two grown sons. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou gave leadership for a number of years to the Fatherhood Initiative. This whole thing of being a father is something that is on your heart and imbedded in your life. Take us back to your dad and really how this all started in your life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s a really good question because people, all the time, ask me: \u201cSo, how did you get focused on this fatherhood stuff?\u00a0 When did you start doing the work?\u201d\u00a0 I tell them, all the time, that I started fatherhood work when I was probably seven years old and my family split up. My mother had four kids under the age of eight, and she left my dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Where\u2019d you grow up?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>I grew up in Toledo, Ohio. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Why did your dad leave?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>My parents were essentially teen parents. My mom got pregnant when she was 16\/17\u2014something like that. And they got married and it went well for a bit. I was very young. So, I don\u2019t remember all of that; but I do kind of remember him not really being there. My dad was life-of-the-party kind of a guy. When he was there, you knew it. He was one of those guys that came in and would energize you. He just started not being there. So, they started having problems in their marriage. Eventually, my mother said, \u201cThat\u2019s it\u201d; and she packed us up. I was the second oldest. She packed us up, and she moved out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>From age seven on, what was your relationship with your dad like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Gosh, I hate to say it this way; but it\u2019s accurate. It was kind of a veneer relationship. You know, you put veneer over plywood\u2014it could be mahogany, it could be whatever\u2014and it looks really good until you peel it underneath. That was really our relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe really didn\u2019t talk about deep things. I think, at critical points of my life coming up, he wasn\u2019t really around. I call them holy days of fathering obligation\u2014you know, birthdays, graduation, stuff like that\u2014he was there, but in terms of doing life deeply and connecting, heart to heart, he wasn\u2019t really there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When a dad isn\u2019t there, a boy ultimately grows up to become a man who is wounded. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There are scars that occur in a man\u2019s life. How would you say you were wounded by the whole set of circumstances?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>I have a saying\u2014I say, \u201cThe kids have a hole in their soul in the shape of their dad.\u201d\u00a0 If their father is unable or unwilling to fill that hole, it can leave a wound that\u2019s not easily healed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI learned\u2014over the years doing work at National Fatherhood Initiative\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014I was basically on a couch for twelve years\u2014basically working on all my issues\u2014[Laughter] \u2014\u2014but, you know, I was a wounded soul. There are just thousands and millions of wounded souls around this issue. I mean, only someone who should love you deeply can hurt you deeply. I think, when you have a situation where a father\u2014or a mother for that matter\u2014doesn\u2019t <em>connect<\/em> with you, it\u2019s absolutely going to leave a wound. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what was one of your wounds?\u00a0 I mean, one of the most\u2014maybe that impacted you most, as a man, husband, father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>I think probably the biggest thing was difficulty with vulnerability. I was actually thinking about this a couple of days ago\u2014more a sort of \u201cGo your own\u2026\u201d\u2014sort of isolation kind of perspective. I just really started to close in. I was thinking about just some critical disappointments recently that I had in my life and remembered that I didn\u2019t talk to anybody about anything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have to tell you a story which will connect the dots to this. I always try to tell these stories in a way that\u2019s respectful to my dad\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because, in a lot of ways, he was a great guy; but he just kind of missed it on this particular piece. I remember when I was\u2014I guess I must have been\u2014my mother had recently left my dad, and we\u2019d moved to a new place. I remember my father telling me that he was going to come and get me for ice cream or something like that. I remember that. I must have been\u2014I was probably like maybe 8 \/ maybe 9\u2014somewhere in that range, right\u2014fourth\/fifth grade\u2014\u2014somewhere in that range. I told some friends on the block that my dad was going to do this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we are all waiting by the curb. He was supposed to pick us up at 5 o\u2019clock or something like that. I remember sitting out there with my friends, and 5 o\u2019clock becomes 6 o\u2019clock. They just kind of drift off\u2014I\u2019m sitting there, under this big tree in front of our house,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>By yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>\u2014by myself. He never showed up. I remember thinking to myself: \u201cThat\u2019s it. I\u2019m done. I\u2019ll never let this happen to me again. I\u2019ll never allow myself to kind of emotionally put myself out there like that.\u201d\u00a0 I think, even as a kid, I grew up with that kind of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it sounds like independence, but it\u2019s really not. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s protection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Absolutely, you just won\u2019t let people get close to you. So, it took a while. Fortunately, I have a great wife who really helped me in a lot of different ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s another little story that also illustrates the point. When my oldest son, Jamin, was about three or four, I started having a difficult time hugging him and kissing him. Sounds maybe bizarre, but it just felt weird to me. So, I went to my wife, who is a Texan, by the way, and very direct. [Laughter] I said to her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I was going to ask you, \u201cWhat does Texas have to do with any of this?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>You\u2019ll see in a minute. You know, \u201cYou don\u2019t mess with Texas.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter] So\u2014[Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019re getting the picture!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>You get the picture. So, I went to her; and I said, \u201cHon, I just don\u2019t\u2014this hugging and kissing stuff\u2014I just don\u2019t like it.\u201d\u00a0 She just looked me straight in the face and said, \u201cWell, you\u2019re just going to have to hold your nose and do it because they need it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I had the presence of mind to listen to her because I knew, deep down inside, that they did. Intellectually, I got there. So, I started hugging them and kissing them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOver time, it got better and I was able to do it. Now, they\u2019re 31, 28. I hug them and kiss them all the time. It\u2019s not a real issue, but what I realized was that I was about to pass on a legacy that I had inherited. See, when I was a kid that age, no one hugged and kissed me. That wasn\u2019t modeled for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s difficult to be what you don\u2019t see, and it\u2019s difficult to give what you didn\u2019t have. As a result, I was about to pass on something\u2014and my kids would be ones that were sitting here, at whatever age, saying, \u201cMy dad never hugged me, never kissed me,\u201d\u2014that kind of thing\u2014and not because of something that was wrong with them\u2014but because of something that was wrong with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, when I think about that absence\u2014a lot of guys don\u2019t really go there because, if you do go there, you\u2019re going to have to go to some places that are painful places. You\u2019re going to have to deal with the fact that you were rejected by someone who should have loved you like no other. If there is a wound there\u2014and I think for a lot of guys\u2014that\u2019s a very, very emotional place to go. It\u2019s easier just to discount it. If you do that, a lot of times, you\u2019ll end up being a guy who does exactly what your father did\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014which is not connect with your kids or abandon your kids because, in order for you to connect, you actually have to realize, \u201cThat wasn\u2019t good what happened to me\u201d; you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You wound up at Princeton\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014played football for Princeton for four years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you are an achiever. You\u2019re working hard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And your path to fatherhood happened a little more quickly than you had planned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. Yes, that\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you start your book by telling this story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>I do because it was a link to a potential bad dad mistake in the making; but yes, my girlfriend, at the time, got pregnant\u2014it\u2019s my wife, Yvette, now. We ended up getting pregnant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere I was\u2014a guy who grew up without a dad\u2014and now, was basically replicating what had happened with my father and my mother. We decided\u2014despite folks who were trying to encourage us to have an abortion and just kind of make the whole thing go away. We, by the grace of God, decided to have our child\u2014our oldest son, Jamin. We\u2019ve been married for 31 years, as a result of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you decided that why?\u00a0 Because you see the default position in that moment would be what you saw modeled\u2014what the culture is encouraging\u2014somehow, you said, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s\u2026\u201d Your wife said it, and you agreed with her; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In fact, I wonder, \u201cWhy were you not a <em>victim<\/em>?\u201d because a lot of guys, who have grown up without a model, could just play the victim card and say: \u201cYou know, I don\u2019t know what this is all about. Let\u2019s hit the eject button.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>You know\u2014there\u2019s kind of\u2014to Bob\u2019s question and yours\u2014there\u2019s kind of an interesting answer to that on two fronts. One, I longed to be married. You know, I used to watch television. I\u2019d watch shows like <em>Good Times<\/em> and <em>The Brady Bunch<\/em>, and I wanted that. You know, the culture was such that there was still a high sort of marriage ethic that was there. My grandparents were married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, for me, when we got pregnant, there wasn\u2019t a big question about what the right thing was. I kind of knew that, and there was a desire in my heart for that\u2014but the other thing, though\u2014going back to your question, Dennis\u2014about the victim thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought about that a lot too. When I was with National Fatherhood Initiative, we did a lot of work with incarcerated fathers. One of the things that I figured out, by going into prisons and talking to guys who are incarcerated, was that there wasn\u2019t a big difference between them and me. Most guys who are incarcerated are growing up without dads. They have the same hole. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut for me, what I did, in order to get my father\u2019s attention, was focused on achievement. That was my deal\u2014so doing well in football and doing well academically. So, the path I went on was an <em>achievement<\/em> path; but you meet the wrong people at the right time, I could have been on another path. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor some guys\u2014you know, their path was gangs or some other types of things; but the source of all that is this desire\u2014to be affirmed, to be loved, to be connected\u2014and to have that kind of affirmation. You know, outside of God\u2019s design, it can take you a lot of different places. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you have surrogates?\u2014coaches, or mentors, or teammates, or guys who stepped in and played the role?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Well, I had a stepfather, who came along at a very important time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost of my firsts that I had\u2014that would be dad firsts\u2014my first pitch, my first baseball mitt\u2014those things\u2014he stepped along. So, it was great there. Then, I had coaches, along the way, at different points, that came along in the line that really helped me at different points in my life. But there is not\u2014there is not a long-term and sustained person that was there the way that a father should be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, where were you and God in the midst of all this?\u00a0 I mean, when did He show up in your life and you recognized He showed up?\u00a0 I\u2019m sure He was there on numerous occasions as you grew up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Our family was a churched family. My grandfather was a pastor. There were ministers on my father\u2019s side as well. So, we were always \u201cchurched.\u201d Every year, I went to church camp; but I guess the real time when I really owned it was probably my junior year of high school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went to a Catholic high school\u2014and my big red Catholic Bible. I had a coach that just came on board for one season. I never saw him again after that year. He really discipled me during that year and that was when I kind of say that I really made the decision to really walk with the Lord.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I just want to say, at this point, Bob, your question talks about other men intersecting a young man\u2019s life that can mentor him \/ they can coach him\u2014as you just said this coach discipled you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>The Stepping Up<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series is designed to collect men together so that men and younger men can rub shoulders together and find out what it means to be a man. That\u2019s really what happened with that coach. He began to disciple you, not only in the Scriptures, but how you could step up and grow up as a man; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes, absolutely. And that is so critical that you have people that step in. You know, at the time I was going through it, I didn\u2019t know any of this that was going on\u2014you know, this patchwork of different folks that came in at different periods of time. I have to tell you, though, even with that, I still always longed for a dad. I longed for a dad that would connect. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I try to help people understand is\u2014that God can be a father to the fatherless. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe is; and really, in a lot of ways\u2014obviously, as Scripture says\u2014but He doesn\u2019t want to be. That\u2019s why he gives you fathers. There is a role for that guy that\u2019s the father of that child to be stepping in their life in a very big way, and it\u2019s hard to really replace that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, in the midst of\u2014your losses, the wounds, the scars, and the hurt you felt as a young man growing up\u2014you assumed the mantle and responsibility of being a husband. You got married; and then, of becoming a dad. Is that really, do you think, what ultimately drew you to write a book about <em>Bad Dads of the Bible<\/em> and go study some of the most famous dads of Scripture who didn\u2019t do it all right either?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes, that was part of the path. I mean, I think one of the things that certainly drew me to the fatherhood work\u2014because I had worked in the corporate world\u2014was this hole in my soul and this desire to help folks, maybe, not make some of the mistakes that I made, you know, coming up, for sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what really brought me to the bad dads concept was that there was sort of a misconception out there that:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIf you helped a guy become a good Christian, he\u2019d automatically become a good dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy son told me something that I thought was really powerful. Jesus started with men\u2019s ministry. And with men, you have to call them and then you have to mission them: \u201cYou, in the tree, come down,\u201d \u201cYou, with the nets, drop those.\u201d\u00a0 He calls them; and then, He missions them. I think, when it comes to fathers, you have to do this same thing. You have to call to them, and you have to mission them. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I found, more often than not, specifically, around helping men be better fathers, that wasn\u2019t happening. There\u2019s a big difference between being a father and a man. Manhood, in a lot of ways, can be very self-centered. I don\u2019t mean that in a negative way, but I mean that you\u2019re focused on \u201cyourself.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s kind of the way that it is, but fatherhood is other-centered in a way that manhood is not. In some ways, it\u2019s not intuitive for men to do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the culture\u2014and specifically, from a Christian perspective, folks that are focusing on men\u2019s ministry, have to call specifically to men and the roles of fathers. You have equip them and engage them to do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I found that that wasn\u2019t happening and that was\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I really like that because I think it takes a man to call a man\u2014not that a man can\u2019t respond to a woman\u2014he can\u2014there\u2019s absolutely nothing wrong with\u2014but it takes an older man to step into a guy\u2019s life and say, \u201cStep up!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne other comment I want you to make, and that is you really went to the Scriptures to study some of the most famous dads of history to discover the patterns of where they blew it so that those of us who are still in the process of being a dad\u2014whether you are a dad of toddlers or all the way to adult children\u2014you can <em>learn<\/em> from the mistakes of others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>You absolutely can. And there is a reason\u2014certainly, from a biblical perspective\u2014why you want to be focused this way. My wife had a friend of hers whom she had taken out to lunch some years ago. It was a beautiful spring day, and they are out having lunch. My wife is one of those folks who will\u2014certainly, wants to bless a meal. When she does, she prays for everything\u2014mosquitoes are God\u2019s blessed blood-suckers. [Laughter]\u00a0 I mean, she really has a gift for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, she\u2019s got this friend, who is not a Christian. She says, \u201cCan I bless the meal?\u201d\u00a0 She says, \u201cSure.\u201d\u00a0 So, my wife launches into this prayer. She starts, \u201cDear Heavenly Father,\u201d and she goes through it. When she\u2019s done, she looks up at her friend. Her friend has this very strange look on her face. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe\u2019s like: \u201cOh my gosh!\u00a0 Did I offend her?\u00a0 What happened?\u201d\u00a0 And she says to her, \u201cWell, I hope the prayer was okay.\u201d\u00a0 And the woman says: \u201cNo, the prayer was wonderful. I just could never pray that prayer because my father was such a\u2026\u201d\u2014insert your curse word here. This was even before I went to work for National Fatherhood Initiative. I thought: \u201cMy gosh! Earthly father can be a stumbling block for someone connecting with a heavenly reality.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSee, if you don\u2019t care about this fatherhood issue\u2014just for all the social science reasons\u2014you should care about it because it has an eternal impact. When you look at the Ten Commandments, you see exactly this same thing. The first four commandments are about our relationship with God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>The last five commandments are about our relationship with man. The fifth commandment is this relationship about honoring your father and your mother. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI actually started to think about that from the concept of the cross; right?\u00a0 So, you\u2019ve got the first four that are pointing up. The last ones that are kind of the cross beam\u2014if you will\u2014and then, that middle command that actually holds those two pieces together, like a cross\u2014it\u2019s that cross section of the cross\u2014is honoring your father and your mother. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhere do you learn how to have that relationship with God?\u00a0 It\u2019s supposed to happen around the dinner table. Where do you learn to have a right relationship with man?\u00a0 It\u2019s supposed to happen around the dinner table. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you think about that: \u201cIf you were going to make a cross, and you had two pieces of wood, and you\u2019re going to nail them together\u201d\u2014there are two nails; right?\u2014\u201cyou can\u2019t do it. You can\u2019t make a cross with one nail because it\u2019ll just keep swinging around. With two nails, you\u2019ll hold it in place.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really think, from a biblical perspective, that first nail\u2014\u201cHonor your mother\u201d\u2014is the nail that goes in\u2014is biologically-constructed. It\u2019s in there. God kind of put that one in deep for us. But the \u201cHonor your father\u201d one\u2014really, the fatherhood piece of that is kind of one that the culture holds in its hand. It used to be\u2014we just nailed that one in; but now, we kind of say, \u201cWell, do we really need that nail or not?\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s the disconnection of fathers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really believe, in a big way, that if the enemy really wants to make sure that we do not move into having a relationship with the Heavenly Father\u2014and every movement that is seeking to sort of take us away from a Judeo-Christian ethic has fatherhood in its crosshairs. I believe that\u2019s a key piece. So, if you don\u2019t care about the social science data, you should care about it, certainly, from a Christian perspective\u2014from the spiritual data. It\u2019s a temporal relationship that has an eternal significance. That was one of the other reasons I thought it was really important to kind of get this information out there and write this book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And it\u2019s interesting that, right before God goes silent\u2014when the Old Testament closes and He goes silent for 400 years\u2014His last words through the Prophet Malachi are these: \u201cBehold, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers. Lest, I come and smite the land with a curse.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cLest, I strike the land with a decree of utter destruction\u201d\u2014one translation reads. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s a heavy pronouncement that really is upon the shoulders of dads to be connected to their kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and it really points us to the awesome responsibility we have, as dads, to shepherd the next generation. Of course, moms are involved in that as well; but I think there is a unique role\u2014a unique calling, I think, as men\u2014we have unique responsibilities. And Roland, you really touch on the heart of these issues in the book that you\u2019ve written called <em>Bad Dads of the Bible: 8 Mistakes Every Good Dad Can Avoid<\/em>. I want to encourage our listeners, \u201cGo to FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy of Roland\u2019s book.\u201d\u00a0 This would be a great book for a dad to read around Father\u2019s Day; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com. On the upper left-hand corner of the page, you\u2019ll see a tab that says, \u201cGo Deeper.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0When you click on that tab, there is information on Roland Warren\u2019s book, <em>Bad Dads of the Bible<\/em> and other books that are available for dads for Father\u2019s Day as well. You can also get in touch with us and order a copy of the book when you call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, if we\u2019re going to understand our roles as dads, we first do have to wrestle with our role as men. And Dennis, you wrote the book, <em>Stepping Up<\/em>; and there\u2019s a video series that our team has put together\u2014ten sessions to take guys through to help them understand what biblical manhood really looks like: \u201cWhat are the core issues that define us, as men?\u201d\u00a0 And our team is hoping that, this summer, some of our listeners will decide to take guys through the material. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, here\u2019s what they\u2019ve agreed to do\u2014anybody who gets the video series this week\u2014you get the DVDs, and we\u2019ll send you five workbooks at no additional cost. So, if you\u2019d like to\u2014this summer or next fall\u2014take a group of men through the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link in the upper left-hand corner that says, \u201cGo Deeper\u201d; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and just say: \u201cI heard about the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> special offer. I want to take advantage of it.\u201d\u00a0 And we\u2019ll get you all fixed up over the phone. So, either way, we hope you\u2019ll take a group of guys through this <em>Stepping Up<\/em> material. It\u2019ll be good for them, and it\u2019ll be good for you too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, this issue that we\u2019re talking about today\u2014being the kind of dad that God has called us to be, as men, is really one of the core messages we have, as a ministry here at FamilyLife. We\u2019re committed to calling men and women to, first of all, be rightly related to God; secondly, to have strong, healthy marriages; thirdly, to live out their responsibilities, as men and women, in a marriage relationship and in a family;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and then fourthly, to pass on a legacy of spiritual vitality to the next generation. We want to effectively develop godly families who change the world, one home at a time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we appreciate those of you who share our passion for seeing strong healthy families developed in our country and in our world. And those of you who support this ministry, financially, we\u2019re grateful for your financial support. Right now, when you make a donation to support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, your donation is going to be doubled. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry come along; and they have agreed to match every donation we receive, between now and Father\u2019s Day, up to a total of $410,000. Obviously, we are excited about the opportunity that provides for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, would you consider going online today, at FamilyLifeToday.com, click the link in the upper right-hand corner that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d and make an online donation, knowing that that donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone. We do hope to hear from you. And thanks, in advance, for your financial support. We really do appreciate it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back again tomorrow. Roland Warren is going to be here again. We\u2019re going to talk more about good dads and bad dads, and how we can avoid the mistakes, and how we can do what we ought to be doing, as men. Hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.35M"],"filesize_raw":["23437974"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-303067.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-303067.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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memories of your father good or bad?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-06-04.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It was not long ago that Roland Warren got a fresh reminder of why our relationship with our earthly father is so significant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>My wife had a friend of hers whom she had taken out to lunch some years ago. She said, \u201cCan I bless the meal?\u201d\u00a0 She said, \u201cSure.\u201d\u00a0 My wife launches into this prayer\u2014she starts, \u201cDear Heavenly Father,\u201d and she goes through. When she\u2019s done, she looks up at her friend. Her friend has this very strange look on her face. She said to her, \u201cWell, I hope the prayer was okay.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe woman says: \u201cNo, the prayer was wonderful. I just could never pray that prayer because my father was such a\u2026\u201d\u2014insert your curse word here. I thought: \u201cMy gosh! Earthly fathers can be a stumbling block for someone connecting with a heavenly reality. See, if you don\u2019t care about this fatherhood issue\u2014just for all the social science reasons\u2014you should care about it because it has an eternal impact. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, June 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou may never, in this life, be perfect like your Heavenly Father is perfect; but it still makes sense for you to be as good a dad as you can be. We\u2019re going to talk about that today. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I get tripped up on this \u201cbad\u201d\u2014the word bad. I just\u2014I never know what to make of it anymore; you know?\u00a0 Somebody says, \u201cMan, that was bad.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I just don\u2019t know what they are talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It could be good!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I saw this book, <em>Bad Dads of the Bible<\/em>. I thought, \u201cSo, are they bad; or are they bad?\u201d\u00a0 You know?\u00a0 I don\u2019t know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think they are bad. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; alright. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think they are bad, and they are not all that bad. They still passed on some good legacies. Let me just give our male listeners a heads-up\u2014and maybe some moms, too, who are listening as well, looking out for the next generation. What we\u2019re going to talk about today is going to motivate you to want to do something about being a man\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014if you\u2019re a man\u2014because the guy we are about to introduce to you is electrifying. He\u2019s going to <em>motivate<\/em> you. Roland Warren joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Roland, welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Well, delighted to be here, Dennis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Roland is the current President and CEO of Care Net which is the nation\u2019s largest network of pregnancy resource centers. He\u2019s appeared on Oprah\u2019s show, <em>The Today Show<\/em>, <em>Dateline NBC<\/em>, Fox News Channel, and written for T<em>he<\/em> <em>Washington Post<\/em> and <em>The Wall Street<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And now, he\u2019s reached the pinnacle of his media career. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014<em>Wall Street Journal<\/em>, and now, <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>It was all a climb to get to you, Dennis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It was. It was. [Laughter]\u00a0 He lives in Maryland with his wife, Yvette; and together, they have two grown sons. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou gave leadership for a number of years to the Fatherhood Initiative. This whole thing of being a father is something that is on your heart and imbedded in your life. Take us back to your dad and really how this all started in your life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s a really good question because people, all the time, ask me: \u201cSo, how did you get focused on this fatherhood stuff?\u00a0 When did you start doing the work?\u201d\u00a0 I tell them, all the time, that I started fatherhood work when I was probably seven years old and my family split up. My mother had four kids under the age of eight, and she left my dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Where\u2019d you grow up?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>I grew up in Toledo, Ohio. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Why did your dad leave?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>My parents were essentially teen parents. My mom got pregnant when she was 16\/17\u2014something like that. And they got married and it went well for a bit. I was very young. So, I don\u2019t remember all of that; but I do kind of remember him not really being there. My dad was life-of-the-party kind of a guy. When he was there, you knew it. He was one of those guys that came in and would energize you. He just started not being there. So, they started having problems in their marriage. Eventually, my mother said, \u201cThat\u2019s it\u201d; and she packed us up. I was the second oldest. She packed us up, and she moved out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>From age seven on, what was your relationship with your dad like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Gosh, I hate to say it this way; but it\u2019s accurate. It was kind of a veneer relationship. You know, you put veneer over plywood\u2014it could be mahogany, it could be whatever\u2014and it looks really good until you peel it underneath. That was really our relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe really didn\u2019t talk about deep things. I think, at critical points of my life coming up, he wasn\u2019t really around. I call them holy days of fathering obligation\u2014you know, birthdays, graduation, stuff like that\u2014he was there, but in terms of doing life deeply and connecting, heart to heart, he wasn\u2019t really there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When a dad isn\u2019t there, a boy ultimately grows up to become a man who is wounded. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There are scars that occur in a man\u2019s life. How would you say you were wounded by the whole set of circumstances?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>I have a saying\u2014I say, \u201cThe kids have a hole in their soul in the shape of their dad.\u201d\u00a0 If their father is unable or unwilling to fill that hole, it can leave a wound that\u2019s not easily healed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI learned\u2014over the years doing work at National Fatherhood Initiative\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014I was basically on a couch for twelve years\u2014basically working on all my issues\u2014[Laughter] \u2014\u2014but, you know, I was a wounded soul. There are just thousands and millions of wounded souls around this issue. I mean, only someone who should love you deeply can hurt you deeply. I think, when you have a situation where a father\u2014or a mother for that matter\u2014doesn\u2019t <em>connect<\/em> with you, it\u2019s absolutely going to leave a wound. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what was one of your wounds?\u00a0 I mean, one of the most\u2014maybe that impacted you most, as a man, husband, father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>I think probably the biggest thing was difficulty with vulnerability. I was actually thinking about this a couple of days ago\u2014more a sort of \u201cGo your own\u2026\u201d\u2014sort of isolation kind of perspective. I just really started to close in. I was thinking about just some critical disappointments recently that I had in my life and remembered that I didn\u2019t talk to anybody about anything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have to tell you a story which will connect the dots to this. I always try to tell these stories in a way that\u2019s respectful to my dad\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because, in a lot of ways, he was a great guy; but he just kind of missed it on this particular piece. I remember when I was\u2014I guess I must have been\u2014my mother had recently left my dad, and we\u2019d moved to a new place. I remember my father telling me that he was going to come and get me for ice cream or something like that. I remember that. I must have been\u2014I was probably like maybe 8 \/ maybe 9\u2014somewhere in that range, right\u2014fourth\/fifth grade\u2014\u2014somewhere in that range. I told some friends on the block that my dad was going to do this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we are all waiting by the curb. He was supposed to pick us up at 5 o\u2019clock or something like that. I remember sitting out there with my friends, and 5 o\u2019clock becomes 6 o\u2019clock. They just kind of drift off\u2014I\u2019m sitting there, under this big tree in front of our house,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>By yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>\u2014by myself. He never showed up. I remember thinking to myself: \u201cThat\u2019s it. I\u2019m done. I\u2019ll never let this happen to me again. I\u2019ll never allow myself to kind of emotionally put myself out there like that.\u201d\u00a0 I think, even as a kid, I grew up with that kind of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it sounds like independence, but it\u2019s really not. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s protection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Absolutely, you just won\u2019t let people get close to you. So, it took a while. Fortunately, I have a great wife who really helped me in a lot of different ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s another little story that also illustrates the point. When my oldest son, Jamin, was about three or four, I started having a difficult time hugging him and kissing him. Sounds maybe bizarre, but it just felt weird to me. So, I went to my wife, who is a Texan, by the way, and very direct. [Laughter] I said to her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I was going to ask you, \u201cWhat does Texas have to do with any of this?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>You\u2019ll see in a minute. You know, \u201cYou don\u2019t mess with Texas.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter] So\u2014[Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019re getting the picture!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>You get the picture. So, I went to her; and I said, \u201cHon, I just don\u2019t\u2014this hugging and kissing stuff\u2014I just don\u2019t like it.\u201d\u00a0 She just looked me straight in the face and said, \u201cWell, you\u2019re just going to have to hold your nose and do it because they need it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I had the presence of mind to listen to her because I knew, deep down inside, that they did. Intellectually, I got there. So, I started hugging them and kissing them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOver time, it got better and I was able to do it. Now, they\u2019re 31, 28. I hug them and kiss them all the time. It\u2019s not a real issue, but what I realized was that I was about to pass on a legacy that I had inherited. See, when I was a kid that age, no one hugged and kissed me. That wasn\u2019t modeled for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s difficult to be what you don\u2019t see, and it\u2019s difficult to give what you didn\u2019t have. As a result, I was about to pass on something\u2014and my kids would be ones that were sitting here, at whatever age, saying, \u201cMy dad never hugged me, never kissed me,\u201d\u2014that kind of thing\u2014and not because of something that was wrong with them\u2014but because of something that was wrong with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, when I think about that absence\u2014a lot of guys don\u2019t really go there because, if you do go there, you\u2019re going to have to go to some places that are painful places. You\u2019re going to have to deal with the fact that you were rejected by someone who should have loved you like no other. If there is a wound there\u2014and I think for a lot of guys\u2014that\u2019s a very, very emotional place to go. It\u2019s easier just to discount it. If you do that, a lot of times, you\u2019ll end up being a guy who does exactly what your father did\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014which is not connect with your kids or abandon your kids because, in order for you to connect, you actually have to realize, \u201cThat wasn\u2019t good what happened to me\u201d; you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You wound up at Princeton\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014played football for Princeton for four years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you are an achiever. You\u2019re working hard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And your path to fatherhood happened a little more quickly than you had planned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. Yes, that\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you start your book by telling this story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>I do because it was a link to a potential bad dad mistake in the making; but yes, my girlfriend, at the time, got pregnant\u2014it\u2019s my wife, Yvette, now. We ended up getting pregnant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere I was\u2014a guy who grew up without a dad\u2014and now, was basically replicating what had happened with my father and my mother. We decided\u2014despite folks who were trying to encourage us to have an abortion and just kind of make the whole thing go away. We, by the grace of God, decided to have our child\u2014our oldest son, Jamin. We\u2019ve been married for 31 years, as a result of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you decided that why?\u00a0 Because you see the default position in that moment would be what you saw modeled\u2014what the culture is encouraging\u2014somehow, you said, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s\u2026\u201d Your wife said it, and you agreed with her; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In fact, I wonder, \u201cWhy were you not a <em>victim<\/em>?\u201d because a lot of guys, who have grown up without a model, could just play the victim card and say: \u201cYou know, I don\u2019t know what this is all about. Let\u2019s hit the eject button.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>You know\u2014there\u2019s kind of\u2014to Bob\u2019s question and yours\u2014there\u2019s kind of an interesting answer to that on two fronts. One, I longed to be married. You know, I used to watch television. I\u2019d watch shows like <em>Good Times<\/em> and <em>The Brady Bunch<\/em>, and I wanted that. You know, the culture was such that there was still a high sort of marriage ethic that was there. My grandparents were married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, for me, when we got pregnant, there wasn\u2019t a big question about what the right thing was. I kind of knew that, and there was a desire in my heart for that\u2014but the other thing, though\u2014going back to your question, Dennis\u2014about the victim thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought about that a lot too. When I was with National Fatherhood Initiative, we did a lot of work with incarcerated fathers. One of the things that I figured out, by going into prisons and talking to guys who are incarcerated, was that there wasn\u2019t a big difference between them and me. Most guys who are incarcerated are growing up without dads. They have the same hole. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut for me, what I did, in order to get my father\u2019s attention, was focused on achievement. That was my deal\u2014so doing well in football and doing well academically. So, the path I went on was an <em>achievement<\/em> path; but you meet the wrong people at the right time, I could have been on another path. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor some guys\u2014you know, their path was gangs or some other types of things; but the source of all that is this desire\u2014to be affirmed, to be loved, to be connected\u2014and to have that kind of affirmation. You know, outside of God\u2019s design, it can take you a lot of different places. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you have surrogates?\u2014coaches, or mentors, or teammates, or guys who stepped in and played the role?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Well, I had a stepfather, who came along at a very important time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost of my firsts that I had\u2014that would be dad firsts\u2014my first pitch, my first baseball mitt\u2014those things\u2014he stepped along. So, it was great there. Then, I had coaches, along the way, at different points, that came along in the line that really helped me at different points in my life. But there is not\u2014there is not a long-term and sustained person that was there the way that a father should be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, where were you and God in the midst of all this?\u00a0 I mean, when did He show up in your life and you recognized He showed up?\u00a0 I\u2019m sure He was there on numerous occasions as you grew up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Our family was a churched family. My grandfather was a pastor. There were ministers on my father\u2019s side as well. So, we were always \u201cchurched.\u201d Every year, I went to church camp; but I guess the real time when I really owned it was probably my junior year of high school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went to a Catholic high school\u2014and my big red Catholic Bible. I had a coach that just came on board for one season. I never saw him again after that year. He really discipled me during that year and that was when I kind of say that I really made the decision to really walk with the Lord.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I just want to say, at this point, Bob, your question talks about other men intersecting a young man\u2019s life that can mentor him \/ they can coach him\u2014as you just said this coach discipled you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>The Stepping Up<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series is designed to collect men together so that men and younger men can rub shoulders together and find out what it means to be a man. That\u2019s really what happened with that coach. He began to disciple you, not only in the Scriptures, but how you could step up and grow up as a man; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes, absolutely. And that is so critical that you have people that step in. You know, at the time I was going through it, I didn\u2019t know any of this that was going on\u2014you know, this patchwork of different folks that came in at different periods of time. I have to tell you, though, even with that, I still always longed for a dad. I longed for a dad that would connect. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I try to help people understand is\u2014that God can be a father to the fatherless. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe is; and really, in a lot of ways\u2014obviously, as Scripture says\u2014but He doesn\u2019t want to be. That\u2019s why he gives you fathers. There is a role for that guy that\u2019s the father of that child to be stepping in their life in a very big way, and it\u2019s hard to really replace that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, in the midst of\u2014your losses, the wounds, the scars, and the hurt you felt as a young man growing up\u2014you assumed the mantle and responsibility of being a husband. You got married; and then, of becoming a dad. Is that really, do you think, what ultimately drew you to write a book about <em>Bad Dads of the Bible<\/em> and go study some of the most famous dads of Scripture who didn\u2019t do it all right either?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes, that was part of the path. I mean, I think one of the things that certainly drew me to the fatherhood work\u2014because I had worked in the corporate world\u2014was this hole in my soul and this desire to help folks, maybe, not make some of the mistakes that I made, you know, coming up, for sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what really brought me to the bad dads concept was that there was sort of a misconception out there that:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIf you helped a guy become a good Christian, he\u2019d automatically become a good dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy son told me something that I thought was really powerful. Jesus started with men\u2019s ministry. And with men, you have to call them and then you have to mission them: \u201cYou, in the tree, come down,\u201d \u201cYou, with the nets, drop those.\u201d\u00a0 He calls them; and then, He missions them. I think, when it comes to fathers, you have to do this same thing. You have to call to them, and you have to mission them. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I found, more often than not, specifically, around helping men be better fathers, that wasn\u2019t happening. There\u2019s a big difference between being a father and a man. Manhood, in a lot of ways, can be very self-centered. I don\u2019t mean that in a negative way, but I mean that you\u2019re focused on \u201cyourself.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s kind of the way that it is, but fatherhood is other-centered in a way that manhood is not. In some ways, it\u2019s not intuitive for men to do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the culture\u2014and specifically, from a Christian perspective, folks that are focusing on men\u2019s ministry, have to call specifically to men and the roles of fathers. You have equip them and engage them to do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I found that that wasn\u2019t happening and that was\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I really like that because I think it takes a man to call a man\u2014not that a man can\u2019t respond to a woman\u2014he can\u2014there\u2019s absolutely nothing wrong with\u2014but it takes an older man to step into a guy\u2019s life and say, \u201cStep up!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne other comment I want you to make, and that is you really went to the Scriptures to study some of the most famous dads of history to discover the patterns of where they blew it so that those of us who are still in the process of being a dad\u2014whether you are a dad of toddlers or all the way to adult children\u2014you can <em>learn<\/em> from the mistakes of others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>You absolutely can. And there is a reason\u2014certainly, from a biblical perspective\u2014why you want to be focused this way. My wife had a friend of hers whom she had taken out to lunch some years ago. It was a beautiful spring day, and they are out having lunch. My wife is one of those folks who will\u2014certainly, wants to bless a meal. When she does, she prays for everything\u2014mosquitoes are God\u2019s blessed blood-suckers. [Laughter]\u00a0 I mean, she really has a gift for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, she\u2019s got this friend, who is not a Christian. She says, \u201cCan I bless the meal?\u201d\u00a0 She says, \u201cSure.\u201d\u00a0 So, my wife launches into this prayer. She starts, \u201cDear Heavenly Father,\u201d and she goes through it. When she\u2019s done, she looks up at her friend. Her friend has this very strange look on her face. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe\u2019s like: \u201cOh my gosh!\u00a0 Did I offend her?\u00a0 What happened?\u201d\u00a0 And she says to her, \u201cWell, I hope the prayer was okay.\u201d\u00a0 And the woman says: \u201cNo, the prayer was wonderful. I just could never pray that prayer because my father was such a\u2026\u201d\u2014insert your curse word here. This was even before I went to work for National Fatherhood Initiative. I thought: \u201cMy gosh! Earthly father can be a stumbling block for someone connecting with a heavenly reality.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSee, if you don\u2019t care about this fatherhood issue\u2014just for all the social science reasons\u2014you should care about it because it has an eternal impact. When you look at the Ten Commandments, you see exactly this same thing. The first four commandments are about our relationship with God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>The last five commandments are about our relationship with man. The fifth commandment is this relationship about honoring your father and your mother. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI actually started to think about that from the concept of the cross; right?\u00a0 So, you\u2019ve got the first four that are pointing up. The last ones that are kind of the cross beam\u2014if you will\u2014and then, that middle command that actually holds those two pieces together, like a cross\u2014it\u2019s that cross section of the cross\u2014is honoring your father and your mother. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhere do you learn how to have that relationship with God?\u00a0 It\u2019s supposed to happen around the dinner table. Where do you learn to have a right relationship with man?\u00a0 It\u2019s supposed to happen around the dinner table. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you think about that: \u201cIf you were going to make a cross, and you had two pieces of wood, and you\u2019re going to nail them together\u201d\u2014there are two nails; right?\u2014\u201cyou can\u2019t do it. You can\u2019t make a cross with one nail because it\u2019ll just keep swinging around. With two nails, you\u2019ll hold it in place.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really think, from a biblical perspective, that first nail\u2014\u201cHonor your mother\u201d\u2014is the nail that goes in\u2014is biologically-constructed. It\u2019s in there. God kind of put that one in deep for us. But the \u201cHonor your father\u201d one\u2014really, the fatherhood piece of that is kind of one that the culture holds in its hand. It used to be\u2014we just nailed that one in; but now, we kind of say, \u201cWell, do we really need that nail or not?\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s the disconnection of fathers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really believe, in a big way, that if the enemy really wants to make sure that we do not move into having a relationship with the Heavenly Father\u2014and every movement that is seeking to sort of take us away from a Judeo-Christian ethic has fatherhood in its crosshairs. I believe that\u2019s a key piece. So, if you don\u2019t care about the social science data, you should care about it, certainly, from a Christian perspective\u2014from the spiritual data. It\u2019s a temporal relationship that has an eternal significance. That was one of the other reasons I thought it was really important to kind of get this information out there and write this book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And it\u2019s interesting that, right before God goes silent\u2014when the Old Testament closes and He goes silent for 400 years\u2014His last words through the Prophet Malachi are these: \u201cBehold, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers. Lest, I come and smite the land with a curse.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cLest, I strike the land with a decree of utter destruction\u201d\u2014one translation reads. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Roland: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s a heavy pronouncement that really is upon the shoulders of dads to be connected to their kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and it really points us to the awesome responsibility we have, as dads, to shepherd the next generation. Of course, moms are involved in that as well; but I think there is a unique role\u2014a unique calling, I think, as men\u2014we have unique responsibilities. And Roland, you really touch on the heart of these issues in the book that you\u2019ve written called <em>Bad Dads of the Bible: 8 Mistakes Every Good Dad Can Avoid<\/em>. I want to encourage our listeners, \u201cGo to FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy of Roland\u2019s book.\u201d\u00a0 This would be a great book for a dad to read around Father\u2019s Day; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com. On the upper left-hand corner of the page, you\u2019ll see a tab that says, \u201cGo Deeper.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0When you click on that tab, there is information on Roland Warren\u2019s book, <em>Bad Dads of the Bible<\/em> and other books that are available for dads for Father\u2019s Day as well. You can also get in touch with us and order a copy of the book when you call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, if we\u2019re going to understand our roles as dads, we first do have to wrestle with our role as men. And Dennis, you wrote the book, <em>Stepping Up<\/em>; and there\u2019s a video series that our team has put together\u2014ten sessions to take guys through to help them understand what biblical manhood really looks like: \u201cWhat are the core issues that define us, as men?\u201d\u00a0 And our team is hoping that, this summer, some of our listeners will decide to take guys through the material. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, here\u2019s what they\u2019ve agreed to do\u2014anybody who gets the video series this week\u2014you get the DVDs, and we\u2019ll send you five workbooks at no additional cost. So, if you\u2019d like to\u2014this summer or next fall\u2014take a group of men through the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link in the upper left-hand corner that says, \u201cGo Deeper\u201d; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and just say: \u201cI heard about the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> special offer. I want to take advantage of it.\u201d\u00a0 And we\u2019ll get you all fixed up over the phone. So, either way, we hope you\u2019ll take a group of guys through this <em>Stepping Up<\/em> material. It\u2019ll be good for them, and it\u2019ll be good for you too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, this issue that we\u2019re talking about today\u2014being the kind of dad that God has called us to be, as men, is really one of the core messages we have, as a ministry here at FamilyLife. We\u2019re committed to calling men and women to, first of all, be rightly related to God; secondly, to have strong, healthy marriages; thirdly, to live out their responsibilities, as men and women, in a marriage relationship and in a family;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and then fourthly, to pass on a legacy of spiritual vitality to the next generation. We want to effectively develop godly families who change the world, one home at a time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we appreciate those of you who share our passion for seeing strong healthy families developed in our country and in our world. And those of you who support this ministry, financially, we\u2019re grateful for your financial support. Right now, when you make a donation to support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, your donation is going to be doubled. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry come along; and they have agreed to match every donation we receive, between now and Father\u2019s Day, up to a total of $410,000. Obviously, we are excited about the opportunity that provides for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, would you consider going online today, at FamilyLifeToday.com, click the link in the upper right-hand corner that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d and make an online donation, knowing that that donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone. We do hope to hear from you. And thanks, in advance, for your financial support. We really do appreciate it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back again tomorrow. Roland Warren is going to be here again. We\u2019re going to talk more about good dads and bad dads, and how we can avoid the mistakes, and how we can do what we ought to be doing, as men. Hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303067","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303067"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303067"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303067"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303067"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303067"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303067"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303067"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}