{"id":303017,"date":"2014-04-16T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-04-16T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-crucible-of-pain\/"},"modified":"2025-04-23T12:41:41","modified_gmt":"2025-04-23T16:41:41","slug":"the-crucible-of-pain","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-crucible-of-pain\/","title":{"rendered":"The Crucible of Pain"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Carolyn Weber tells how a difficult labor and delivery lead her to death\u2019s door and how God sustained her through that trauma she calls the crucible moment in her\u00a0marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Carolyn Weber tells how a difficult labor and delivery lead her to death\u2019s door and how God sustained her through that trauma she calls the crucible moment in her\u00a0marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-04-16.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"21.37M","filesize_raw":"22411096","date_recorded":"2014-04-16 11:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2906,2821],"tags":[5222],"podcast_series":[7203],"cwp_profile":[8824],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303017","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-becoming-a-christian","category-reaching-out","tag-pregnancy","podcast_series-holy-is-the-day","cwp_profile-carolyn-weber","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303017\/the-crucible-of-pain","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303017\/the-crucible-of-pain","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"pIPhEQQ62o\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-crucible-of-pain\/\">The Crucible of Pain<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-crucible-of-pain\/embed\/#?secret=pIPhEQQ62o\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Crucible of Pain&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"pIPhEQQ62o\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Carolyn Weber tells how a difficult labor and delivery lead her to death\u2019s door and how God sustained her through that trauma she calls the crucible moment in her\u00a0marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-04-16.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Carolyn Weber remembers the experience of an emergency C-section without anesthesia. The whole experience, she said, had a clarifying effect for her and her husband.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>You would never ask for trauma, of course, and the Lord tells us that we are going to have suffering in this world; but He is with us in that suffering. That transforms everything. What it did was it made everything very clear. All of a sudden, I realized my priorities.<\/p>\n<p>I think many folks I\u2019ve spoken to about near death experiences have the same thing. You get this clarity of your priorities, and you get this gratitude. That helped us decide what we wanted to do in our lives to better grow closer to God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, April 16<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Carolyn Weber joins us today to explain how, following a near death experience, she came to realize that every day is a holy day. Stay tuned.<\/p>\n<p><strong>1:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, I\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014if I had gotten a scholarship and gone to Oxford, and gotten a degree from Oxford, and gone on to get my PhD, and I wrote a book\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014from Oxford.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014I would, sure enough, have Dr. Bob Lepine on the front of my book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But her\u2014it\u2019s not there, Bob.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Our guest, with a PhD\u2014all it says is Carolyn Weber. There is no \u201cDr.\u201d Weber on here. What\u2019s up with that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What\u2019s up with it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I\u2019m not a doctor, first.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Aren\u2019t you a PhD?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I am. I am a doctor; but I don\u2019t go around saying to people, \u201cHi, I\u2019m Dr. Weber.\u201d\u00a0 I think\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>2:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Even when you were a professor at Seattle University and also at Westmont College, you didn\u2019t use your title?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Well, when it needed to be done formally, of course; and students would call me Dr. Weber in that forum. But in my own life\u2014and I think reaching out, hopefully, to my readers in terms of encouraging them in their faith\u2014I think I\u2019m a believer first and then a wife and a mom. The doctor\u2019s connected to the teaching platform.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s talk about that aspect of being a mom. You\u2019ve written about this in a book called <em>Holy Is the Day<\/em>. Really, how you start the book is one of the more fascinating days, I think, a woman could ever imagine. Take us to that day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Well, thank you because it\u2019s an example of how the book doesn\u2019t have anything to do with being a doctor\u2014[Laughter]\u2014quite the opposite. Our professional lives are small elements of really who we are and, ultimately, not part of who we are in Christ.<\/p>\n<p><strong>3:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But that opening, for me, was a turning point because I had had a daughter. When I had my twins, I had a very good pregnancy and was actually feeling very self-sufficient and excited about things. Then\u2014boom\u2014we went in for the delivery. My first son was born without a problem. My second son, I ran into an issue where he got stuck. Actually, it became very dangerous quite quickly; and I had to have an emergency C-section\u2014and the medication didn\u2019t take. In short, there wasn\u2019t a lot of time.<\/p>\n<p>I had this anesthesiologist who gave me very good advice and helped me through it; but in that moment, I think it\u2019s an example in life where we face trauma\u2014we face something that happens that is both a horrific moment but also a clarifying one. In that moment, I really did taste death. I really did sort of feel death about me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The anesthesiologist gave you advice, but he didn\u2019t give you medication to put you out?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>No, because the problem at the time was the medication. It was much more complicated than just administering.<\/p>\n<p><strong>4:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The first one hadn\u2019t taken. They were administering the second, and there was a lapse. That, sometimes, happens.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you were cut on\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I was cut open while I was fully-awake. It wasn\u2019t pleasant, to say the least!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis<\/strong>: Tasted death is a pretty strong word.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Yes, you know\u2014up until this point, as a believer, on my faith walk, I\u2014when people spoke of spiritual warfare, I was always a little skeptical\u2014but I mean, I\u2019m Canadian, we\u2019re not really people to be sort of\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There aren\u2019t spiritual battles in Canada?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>No, no, we\u2019re very\u2014somebody bumps into you; and you say, \u201cSorry.\u201d\u00a0 We\u2019re not about sort of anything too overt and unpleasant.<\/p>\n<p>And I saw darkness in the room. Later on, it was actually\u2014I never thought of it, at the time\u2014but later on, when I was teaching John Milton\u2019s <em>Paradise Lost<\/em> to my students, the way he actually describes death is this black, ominous, shapeless thing\u2014was actually what I saw in the room,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>5:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014moving towards me. I felt the presence of good and evil, and I held on to God in that moment.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s why I entitled the chapter, \u201cFour in the Furnace,\u201d because it reminded me of the story from the third chapter of Daniel, where the three men go into the furnace, but the king\u2014and he raises it seven times hotter than the norm\u2014and the king sees actually the fourth man, like a god, walking among them. And that notion that there was myself, and Kent, and baby in this moment; but then, there was also this other presence with me.<\/p>\n<p>I have to say\u2014for lack of sounding cheesy or whatever else, coming as newbie to spiritual warfare\u2014\u201cI felt God\u2019s presence with me.\u201d\u00a0 Yes, it was painful. Yes, it was horrific; but when I clung to that peace, I felt it, and the darkness dissipated.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>What was the lasting impact of that moment on your life, spiritually?\u00a0 What did that define for you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>At that moment, when things were going fine, the doctor was bustling about a little bit; but when things started to escalate badly,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>6:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014the doctor yelled out one particular word\u2014and again, I\u2019m a word person\u2014and I remember, at the time, it striking me. And the word he yelled was \u201cconvert.\u201d\u00a0 Now, that\u2019s a medical term in which, all of a sudden, 15 nurses rush in\u2014and they start preparing you for surgery and all of this\u2014but talk about a loaded word. I would say that in my faith walk, at the time, and for Kent, too\u2014you know, we were just feeling dry, spiritually.<\/p>\n<p>As a result of this situation, I was actually called to grow deeper in my faith. What it did is it threw Kent and me into this crucible where, afterwards\u2014in the midst of it, we were drawn closer together\u2014but also, growing out of it afterwards, it makes everything clearer.<\/p>\n<p>I say in the book that trauma prepares us for resurrection. Really, what it did is\u2014you would never ask for trauma, of course\u2014and the Lord tells us that we are going to have suffering in this world, but He is with us in that suffering. That transforms everything. What it did was\u2014it made everything very clear.<\/p>\n<p>I think many folks I\u2019ve spoken to about near death experiences have the same thing. You get this clarity of your priorities,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>7:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014and you get this gratitude. That helped us decide what we wanted to do in our lives to better grow closer to God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re a wordsmith.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I would hope. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You like words; okay?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I love words. Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to ask you to take the word, trauma, and give us the five words that best describe what you went through.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Wounded, opened, vulnerable, terror, and peace\u2014which might seem like they can\u2019t exist together.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was going to say those don\u2019t go together.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>They don\u2019t seem like they go together; but why I say those\u2014and actually, when I thought about them, they\u2019re also, I mean, manifest in something like the crucifixion. That\u2019s actually how I was\u2014literally, tied down. I remember, at the time, I was tied down in a crucifix manner. I remember thinking, literally, at the time, \u201cThis is how the saints must have felt when they were quartered.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>8:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So, there\u2019s this horror that goes along with it and this incredible vulnerability; yet, there is also\u2014this peace does descend. It does descend. I think, as a believer, you have the tools to recognize that. As a non-believer, sometimes, it actually gives you the ability to see Him in your life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Here\u2019s how you wrote about it in your book\u2014you said: \u201cThe crucible moment in my marriage\u201d\u2014and that\u2019s how you describe this, the crucible moment in your marriage\u2014\u201cit cracked both my husband and me so wide open and set in motion a change so radical as to reorient our entire lives. Together, our shared trauma brought to the surface other traumas. The process deepened our faith and gave us newly-won perspective.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Talk about the reorienting of your entire lives, and what was different after that moment?<\/p>\n<p><strong>9:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s why one of the words I identified to was \u201copened\u201d because I was literally cut open\u2014but also, emotionally and spiritually cut open. I think that\u2019s also what trauma does\u2014is it cracks us open. So, afterwards, when we began processing what had happened, I realized I needed counseling. I would have never known that initially; but I started having post-traumatic stress. I would lie down to sleep at night, and I couldn\u2019t lie down without feeling I was being cut open.<\/p>\n<p>To have the privilege of a believing marriage\u2014you know, being able to, again, go to a man who is Christ-centered and share that with him\u2014and for him to pray with me and to be with me\u2014but also to think, again, that wonderful male ability of problem solving because I\u2019m just like: \u201cI\u2019ll push through. I\u2019ll nurse the twins, and I\u2019ll go on\u2014no sleep\u201d; but he\u2019s also: \u201cWhat can we do here to break this pattern?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s when I was able to\u2014I mean, the poet, T.S. Eliot, has this play where one of his characters says: \u201cYou don\u2019t need therapy. You need redemption,\u201d\u2014but I needed both, combined together, after that kind of particular event.<\/p>\n<p><strong>10:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I had wonderful therapy as a result. It allowed us to\u2014what it did is it reopened a lot of wounds I hadn\u2019t looked at in my own life\u2014in terms of my father-wound. It can actually become a great opportunity for healing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And when you say that\u2014not just from the healing of the trauma you experienced\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014but other traumas in your life\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014that you may have suppressed or have hidden.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Of course, because the physical trauma is nothing to be downplayed; but the emotional pain is so far worse than physical pain. What it did is\u2014it raised for me old wounds of being made to feel vulnerable\u2014made to feel hurt, or alone, or terrified, or\u2014you know, all the ways that we have wired those old wounds into ourselves. It allows us to hand those wounds over to be healed.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m always struck by the image in Revelation of Christ\u2019s wounds and His resurrected body. You know, He brings them into the restored world with Him and shows them to us as proof.<\/p>\n<p><strong>11:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s not that they are gone. It\u2019s not like you take this Jesus-placebo and everything\u2019s fine and dandy.<\/p>\n<p>You know, we\u2019d been married for eight years\u2014so, years, at this point. Sure, it was wonderful in that\u2014and you\u2019re going along, as a believer; but God\u2019s calling you to go deeper with Him all the time. Sometimes, those are big wake-up calls, and sometimes, they are subtle; but they come with great gifts if you tune into them.<\/p>\n<p>So, that was what I mean by preparing you for resurrection\u2014because then, what it does is\u2014it does lay a path for your further healing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>How did your marriage and your family change as a result of all of this?\u00a0 How did you change, as a wife and a mother; do you think?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I think, first, as a wife and a mother, it made me realize that God has not removed His presence from us. We have removed our presence from Him. That memory of that trauma is so crystal clear. I didn\u2019t romanticize it because I\u2019ll tell you\u2014it hurt!\u2014but it gave me a crystal clear gift. I\u2019ve heard this from other folks with similar experiences of God\u2019s presence there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>12:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That has made me more alert, I think\u2014as a wife, as a mother, in my own walk as God\u2019s daughter\u2014of His presence with me.<\/p>\n<p>Jesus is in your boat. He is in there together. That helped my marriage in that\u2014since I wasn\u2019t alone with Kent in my marriage\u2014it\u2019s us all married with God in our marriage. As a mother, I don\u2019t always attain this\u2014and again, that\u2019s where grace is so great because we always fall short of the mark\u2014but being more present with my children\u2014just simply, really even, on a physical level of making eye contact with them, instead of always racing around to do things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, this book, which is subtitled, <em>Living in the Gift of the Present<\/em>\u2014what you are saying here is that the experience you had with God\u2014His presence giving you peace in the midst of terror\u2014has ultimately helped you to be present with your children, heart-to-heart connected to them\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>13:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014as they\u2019re growing up to ultimately do life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s interesting, Carolyn, I went to the book of Joshua, 1<sup>st<\/sup> Chapter\u2014and I asked the question\u2014because it\u2019s a book about courage\u2014and I asked the question, \u201cWhere does courage come from?\u201d\u00a0 In Joshua 1, there are three places where it comes from: Number one, from knowing God\u2019s mission\u2014knowing you\u2019re about what He wants you to do. Secondly, it comes from His Word. The Scriptures give us courage to live. And third is the one that confronted you on that gurney\u2014His presence. \u201cDo not be afraid,\u201d God commanded Joshua, \u201cfor I am with you.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s what has given you courage to handle all the past traumas; and yet, courage to face the future in raising your family.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Exactly; exactly. I have twin boys, and one is particularly willful. He was the tantrum thrower and everything else.<\/p>\n<p><strong>14:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It gave me the ability, with him, to love him purposely\u2014to calm down instead of entering into his anger, to love him from God\u2019s presence, and to be able to say to him: \u201cThese are the wonderful gifts that God has given you. He\u2019s given you a strong spirit. He\u2019s given you courage. He\u2019s given you this strength, but you need to steward those gifts to glorify Him.\u201d\u00a0 And his little body\u2014I would feel, is all tense and it\u2019s\u2014I mean, you can feel his energy when you just touch him and hold him. And I could feel him, though, just relax\u2014and love that burden.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And instead of seeing him as disrupting your day and your life,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Exactly; exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014instead, you\u2019re speaking into his life the strengths he has and saying, \u201cThat can glorify God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cYou need to learn how to do that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mentioned that you are Dr. Carolyn Weber. You\u2019ve got a PhD from Oxford; and yet, it\u2019s not on the front of your book. It\u2019s not Dr. Carolyn Weber.<\/p>\n<p><strong>15:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>You said, \u201cIt is a portion of your identity, but it\u2019s not the leading portion of your identity.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>As you think about priorities and about how you have chosen to order your life\u2014there is something you are well-trained for and that you really love\u2014and that\u2019s teaching students. You\u2019ve had the opportunity to do that in a lot of settings and have that opportunity available to you today, if you wanted it; but you\u2019ve set that aside for right now. Why?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I believe, prayerfully before God, it\u2019s not where He wants my gifts used at this time. I believe that in my marriage, my husband and I\u2014he\u2019s taken the lead in praying with me and working through how best to help steward my gifts.<\/p>\n<p>And we have a young family. My children need\u2014especially in these early years\u2014they always need us\u2014so, those little lives are really important. I know what they can amount to;\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>16:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014and I know the gift I\u2019ve been given, and the responsibility, and the privilege I\u2019ve been given to mother those little lives and participate in that.<\/p>\n<p>I once had another professor at Oxford. I so admired her. She was an older woman. She stepped into her position kind of accidentally, taking it over when her husband had passed away. She had raised four children. She said to me once, \u201cThe books will be all written, and the papers will be all done, and the students will always be there; but your children, at this age, will not be.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think everything has its season. That doesn\u2019t mean that we don\u2019t have gifts in other areas, but they don\u2019t have to be all the same gifts being used all at the same time. I think we have to weigh them against what we are doing, and that gift of being present is really important. We have to be realistic. We can\u2019t be present in all those things at once.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019ve chosen not to believe the world\u2019s promise that: \u201cYou can have it all.\u201d\u00a0 You\u2019ve chosen to invest in the next generation and in your marriage\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>17:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014and discriminate in favor of that next generation and your husband.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014in spite of the books that make <em>The<\/em> <em>New York Times<\/em> Bestseller list that say: \u201cNo, you may drive your kids neurotic if you obsess over them the way you\u2019re obsessing over them. You need to be a little more balanced and diversified in what you are doing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Which I find actually interesting because there are a lot of research actually that points to the fact that when you do fill their little wells, they need you less in needy ways\u2014in unhealthy, needy ways. We all need our little buckets filled, and we do have it all\u2014as Christians, we do have it all. That\u2019s not just jargon. We already have it all. It\u2019s already been given to us.<\/p>\n<p>We could lose those things at any time. We can hoard all the money, or we can take all the jobs, or we can take all the promotions, or we can have all the credentials; but grace shows us that those things have to be used discriminately to the glory of God or else it\u2014Ecclesiastes tells us that it won\u2019t matter otherwise.<\/p>\n<p><strong>18:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But that gives us such a tremendous freedom.<\/p>\n<p>I know that, daily, I\u2019ll beat myself up that: \u201cI didn\u2019t teach the kids this,\u201d or, \u201c\u2026get this written,\u201d or, \u201c\u2026get this wrapped,\u201d or, \u201c\u2026serve parents in this way,\u201d or whatever; but ultimately, to then, you\u2019re given that rest of: \u201cI have been bought. I\u2019m already purchased, and anything I do above that is hopefully\u2014if I do it well\u2014is candy.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cYou don\u2019t have anything you have to prove to yourself or anybody else.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>It\u2019s tremendously freeing. That was the great freedom I had when I first became a Christian. That was one of the clicks on the combination lock because I had worked so hard to be this self-achieving person: \u201cHow dare Jesus come in and actually tell me that there wasn\u2019t anything I could do to get grace!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, I\u2019m listening to your answers to our questions, and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cYou are a remarkably grounded person in the Scriptures with the right perspective of who you are, as God made you.\u201d\u00a0 I think I know the answer to this question,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>19:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014but I\u2019m going to ask it anyway. Not diminishing your own study\u2014I\u2019m not diminishing that in any way\u2014your own pursuit of Christ, which you, undoubtedly, have done to be able to be sitting here today\u2014who has been the most influential Christian in your life?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>My husband.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I thought so. The reason I asked that question\u2014there are some husbands, listening, who need the challenge to disciple their wives\u2014to care for their soul, protect them, develop them, and help them become all that God made them. Give them a challenge to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Love them. Then, love them more. That\u2019s what Kent does to me\u2014is when I am exhausted and the baby has been up all night\u2014and he takes the next night, and the next night, and the next night, and the next night to let me sleep. He reminds me, again and again, that what I do is great and he\u2019s proud of me;\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>20:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014but that\u2019s not who I am before Christ. He\u2019ll say to me: \u201cOh, I know you\u2019re a great teacher. I know you could write anything you wanted and you\u2019re an awesome mom; but you know, you\u2019ve got Christ. You\u2019ve got that squared away.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I hope, too, husbands will also see that it gives their wives the freedom to be who God wants them to be. It gives them tremendous breath in their lungs; but it is a beautiful, beautiful thing when you are realizing how you are being loved and you respond to that too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, Carolyn, I\u2019m grateful you\u2019ve written\u2014not only <em>Holy Is the Day<\/em>\u2014but also the book, <em>Surprised by Oxford<\/em>. I think you\u2019ve got a lot of gifts that\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014right now, are being poured into one man and to those four little ones; but you\u2019ve ministered to a lot of us, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I just want to thank you for surrendering to Christ\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>21:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014because you were an incredibly valuable person before you met Christ; but you are a redeemed, valuable person after you met Him. I\u2019m just excited you\u2019re in the family.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Well, thank you for having me and glory be to God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And your father-in-law bragged on you, extensively; and he did not lie.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Oh. I have never known him to do such. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I have to imagine that he has been tuned in and listening to our program this week because he\u2019s very proud of his daughter-in-law.<\/p>\n<p>We have copies of Carolyn Weber\u2019s books: <em>Surprised by Oxford<\/em> is her memoir of her time in graduate school as a skeptical, agnostic who is converted to Christianity. And her new book is called <em>Holy Is the Day: Living in the Gift of the Present<\/em>. It\u2019s all about ordering our priorities around what really matters. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to find out more about both of these books from Carolyn Weber.<\/p>\n<p><strong>22:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and order the books over the phone\u20141-800-358-6329, 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, this season of the year\u2014in particular, this week, every year, is a sober week for those of us who are followers of Jesus as we reflect on His death, His burial, and then His triumphant resurrection. The Scriptures remind us that Jesus is right now ever interceding for us, as His children. Following that example, God has invited us before the throne to intercede on behalf of our spouse, on behalf of our children, and behalf of others.<\/p>\n<p>FamilyLife has put together a packet of three prayer cards,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>23:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014designed to prompt you to pray specifically for your spouse and for your children. And this month, we have been sending those cards out to those folks who can help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation during the month of April. You get a card for wives to use to pray for their husbands. There is a card for a husband to use to pray for his wife. And then, there is a card that you guys are going to have to fight over, as husband and wife, to figure out who gets to keep the card\u2014maybe you can just trade it off each week\u2014and be praying for your children.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019d be happy to send you these prayer cards as our thank-you gift when you support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> this month. We are listener-supported. We depend on your donations to cover the costs of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the button that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d\u2014make an online donation\u2014and we\u2019ll send the prayer cards to you. Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make a donation over the phone, and ask for the prayer cards when you do. And of course, you can write to us and request the prayer cards.<\/p>\n<p><strong>24:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Send your check to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. And our zip code is 72223.<\/p>\n<p>And I hope you can join us back tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about God\u2019s heart for the orphan and about what all of us can do to be a part of caring for the needs of orphans. Johnny Carr joins us tomorrow. Hope you can join us, as well.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.<\/p>\n<p>Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. 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