{"id":303013,"date":"2014-04-14T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2014-04-14T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/whispers-from-god\/"},"modified":"2025-04-23T12:40:44","modified_gmt":"2025-04-23T16:40:44","slug":"whispers-from-god","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whispers-from-god\/","title":{"rendered":"Whispers from God"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Carolyn Weber reflects on her early months as a student at\u00a0Oxford and her spiritual awakening which began there.\u00a0<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Carolyn Weber reflects on her early months as a student at\u00a0Oxford and her spiritual awakening which began there.\u00a0<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-04-14.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.47M","filesize_raw":"25654505","date_recorded":"2014-04-14 11:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2906,2821],"tags":[4133],"podcast_series":[7203],"cwp_profile":[8824],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-303013","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-becoming-a-christian","category-reaching-out","tag-coming-to-christ","podcast_series-holy-is-the-day","cwp_profile-carolyn-weber","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/303013\/whispers-from-god","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/303013\/whispers-from-god","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"WAPVRyRnta\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whispers-from-god\/\">Whispers from God<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/whispers-from-god\/embed\/#?secret=WAPVRyRnta\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Whispers from God&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"WAPVRyRnta\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Carolyn Weber reflects on her early months as a student at\u00a0Oxford and her spiritual awakening which began there.\u00a0","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2014-04-14.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Carolyn Weber was a bright, young Canadian woman\u2014granted a scholarship to do graduate work at Oxford University in England. It was there that she met a pastor\u2019s son, also studying at Oxford. All of a sudden, many of her presuppositions about Christianity were being challenged.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Because what spoke to me more than <em>all of the arguments<\/em>\u2014because he had answers for everything. At the time, he was actually studying Augustine and Aquinas. It was perfect timing. I threw him every theological question. I railed him about men and everything; but he\u2014it was his example\u2014his loving, kind, gentle example in answering everything.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, April 14<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. When Carolyn Weber started exploring the claims of Christ, she found herself quite surprised. We\u2019ll hear her story today. Stay tuned.<\/p>\n<p><strong>1:00 <\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Have you ever been on the campus at Oxford?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019ve driven by there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Only just slightly close. I\u2019m not sure they\u2019d let a guy from Ozark\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014Missouri\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014Missouri.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014walk on the campus?\u00a0 Might defile it in some way?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 You know I\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I would definitely lower the average IQ substantially.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019ve never been close; but, when you read the stories of C.S. Lewis teaching there and his conversion there,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and then you read just about all of the great thinking that has gone on there, it\u2019s one of those places you just kind of liked to go and smell the air\u2014see if it makes you any smarter.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. And you know, it is fun to meet someone who has graduated from there. We have the privilege of talking today to Carolyn Weber, who has written a book called <em>Surprised by Oxford<\/em>. Carolyn, welcome to the broadcast.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Thank you so much for having me here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>2:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s a real delight.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Carolyn has a father-in-law who has drunk the Kool-Aid<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. [Laughter]\u00a0 She has him totally around her little finger, as a daughter-in-law. I first heard of this book from him. He shoved it under my nose\u2014and in his deep, baritone, resonating voice\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; yes. [Imitating Stu Weber]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly what he sounds like!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He knows Stu Weber\u2014Stu said, \u201cHave her on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Aww.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cYour listeners need to meet her.\u201d\u00a0 She is a graduate of the University of Oxford. And she and Kent live in London, Ontario.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Ontario, Canada.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And she is the mom of four, and she\u2019s got a great story. Let\u2019s start by the family you grew up in, Carolyn. You didn\u2019t grow up in a Christian home\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014at all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>No, Dennis, I didn\u2019t. I grew up in kind of a loosely\u2014maybe loosely Catholic home\u2014I might define that\u2014but not really with any sort of faith. We didn\u2019t really go to church regularly\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>3:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014or didn\u2019t understand any of those concepts surrounding faith. I certainly did not have a relationship with Jesus or whatnot.<\/p>\n<p>I think I\u2019m a perfect example of really someone from a middle class background that has heard of Jesus on television or loosely, culturally, but has really no concept of the gospel or who He is. We kind of assume that people have heard the gospel, but I hadn\u2019t really heard anything along those lines. I\u2019d never really read the Bible\u2014knew a few little verses here and there, maybe, from my grandmother\u2019s Hungarian church; but I did not grow up with any kind of faith.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What was sacred in your family?\u00a0 You know, I read in your book\u2014it looks kind of like intellect\u2014reason \/ rational thinking\u2014was kind of the Holy Grail.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Yes, I mean, my mother raised us, essentially, alone. My parents got divorced when I was older, but my father was not around for most of my life. When he did show up, it was fairly difficult\u2014sometimes, even violent. My mom was a busy mom, raising us alone.<\/p>\n<p><strong>4:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I love my family dearly and was trying to help them. I was working several jobs while I was going to college. So, I was also, I think, in that very sense\u2014Canadian and North American student sense\u2014just also very, very busy. There wasn\u2019t really any sort of meditative or contemplative time\u2014happy in some ways, in terms of being busy at school and enjoying myself\u2014but it also made me burn out, eventually, too.<\/p>\n<p>By the time I won the scholarship to Oxford, I was not anticipating to go to Oxford. I was actually engaged, at the time, to my college sweetheart, who was an atheist. I was agnostic by definition because I couldn\u2019t disprove God and had grown increasingly so centered in my anger at, particularly, my father\u2014and my feminism that was growing from that\u2014not trusting men in general and wanting to be self-sufficient \/ self-reliant\u2014that was really the epitome of what my studies represented.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Describe your feminism\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014because I\u2019m just curious: \u201cHow would you define what you were?\u00a0 Were you a third-wave feminist\u2014were you a\u2014I mean, what would you put around all of that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>5:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Well, I think\u2014and that\u2019s a great question. I mean, I was studying Literary Theory. I would have applied all those high-brow things; but I think, overall, there was no way I was going to trust in anyone\u2014let alone a man\u2014incarnate God or otherwise\u2014to provide for me or do anything for me. Ultimately, when the chips were down, I knew I had to do it all for myself. That was the way that I went into Oxford.<\/p>\n<p>When I did win the scholarship\u2014and I knew that it was a great opportunity, professionally\u2014I knew I needed to take it. I definitely was doing\u2014starting a thesis on women writers. There is nothing wrong with that; but my impetus was coming from anger\u2014from a feeling of injustice \/ a feeling of unfairness\u2014as opposed to a feeling of objectivity and scholarship.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Spiritually-speaking, what in the world took place at Oxford for God to get your attention?\u00a0 I mean, you\u2019re describing somebody who is not on a path that is seeking God. You\u2019ve got that all figured out\u2014you\u2019re your own god, at that point.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Right; right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What happened?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I think, in all of us, I think there is a seeking\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>6:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014even those who\u2014there is no such thing as an atheist in the foxhole. I think that there is\u2014all of us have this ache, but I was researching all sorts of world religions. Finally, I had enough time actually to read and even, eventually, read the Bible\u2014I finally was not working after school late hours and things like that.<\/p>\n<p>But the bottom line was\u2014someone shared the gospel with me, clearly and concisely. I had never really heard it before. I think, sometimes, we can underestimate\u2014we can think people have heard the gospel elsewhere or that they know what the gospel simply is and what Jesus came to do and did for us; but we don\u2019t!\u00a0\u00a0 I can say that from the other side. I\u2019m the perfect example of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>A student at Oxford, on scholarship\u2014if I were coming up to witness to you, I would presume certain things that you know that you may not have known\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014or I would also presume that I have to give some kind of a\u2014I\u2019ve got to get into Kamp, and Kierkegaard, and all of that just\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>7:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Apologetics?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Right; right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, what did this person share with you?\u00a0 How basic was it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Well, there is a funny story about how we first met over a hilarious email; but we eventually\u2014he invited me for coffee. His very first question\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Okay, now, who are we talking about here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>This is the student who shared the gospel with me, who I eventually married; but at the time\u2014this is the scandal as I was actually engaged to someone else\u2014you know, the atheist back home\u2014but we were not romantically interested or anything. He was just a friend, who was down the hall.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, this wasn\u2019t missionary dating by Kent.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>No, no, no, no!\u00a0 This was completely an example of how, in a dorm scenario, you can witness to somebody, strategically. What he did was\u2014he asked me, \u201cWho is God to you?\u201d\u00a0 What I realized was\u2014one of the best ways to simply witness is to ask somebody a question. I didn\u2019t really have an answer. Then, he asked me who Jesus was. And I could spew all the cultural stuff, but\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>8:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014and then, we had a long conversation, as friends, into the night. At the time, I didn\u2019t accept the gospel; but the seed was planted. It was like an elephant in the room, and I couldn\u2019t get rid of it after that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I just want to affirm your statement about people asking questions as they share their faith because the answer to the question reveals who the person is, how they\u2019re thinking, where they are in their journey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And it allows us to determine, really, how we\u2019re going to move forward in the relationship with them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you can\u2019t ask the question like you\u2019re a prosecuting attorney, trying to get\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh no.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014trying to get to a predetermined\u2014you have to be genuinely, \u201cI\u2019m curious,\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cwho God is to you?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How did you answer that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I gave him sort of \u201cOh, well, I\u2019m an agnostic because I can\u2019t really say that there isn\u2019t a god.\u201d\u00a0 I gave him\u2014but I realized, as I was speaking, how loosy-goosy my own answers were\u2014in my own soul and heart.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>You weren\u2019t hostile toward religion\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Oh, I was horridly hostile\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014toward religion?<\/p>\n<p><strong>9:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>\u2014well, toward Kent\u2014as sharing the gospel with me, as a representation of Christianity.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when he asked you the question, did it make you anger?\u00a0 It made you irritated?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>It irritated me. I think Jesus\u2019 name is the only name that has that kind of power. No other name has that kind of power.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did you show your anger?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Oh, I did!\u00a0 You can ask Kent. I beat him up for months. We had lots of conversations, and I beat him up for months. Praise God he was a pastor\u2019s son, and he had a lot of spiritual armor; but I threw every dart at him. I came at him with all the stereotypical baggage. My concept of Christians was\u2014TV evangelists, with big hair, that take your money. Certainly, I\u2019m an example\u2014living proof\u2014that you can go study for a literature degree for 22 years in the public school education and not read the Bible.<\/p>\n<p>But it opened a whole new world for me\u2014even, intellectually, at the beginning. At the beginning, at least, I realized: \u201cI have to look into this because, first of all, this guy really ticks me off.<\/p>\n<p><strong>10:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>There is something he is saying here that is bothering me for a reason.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Why didn\u2019t he go away?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Because later, as I discovered, he was praying for me the whole time; but he was committed to our friendship.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re making a very powerful point\u2014it\u2019s not about winning the argument.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is about, ultimately, loving the other person.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>It\u2019s so important you underline that because what spoke to me more than <em>all of the arguments<\/em>\u2014because he had answers for everything. At the time, he was actually studying Augustine and Aquinas. It was perfect timing. I threw him every theological question, but it was his example\u2014his loving, kind, gentle example in answering everything.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Give us the best one you threw at him, looking back on all the stuff that you hammered him with.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I hammered him with so much stuff. I\u2019m shocked he married me, years later!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 I mean, wow!\u00a0 The crowns in heaven for him\u2014there are.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you don\u2019t think he persevered just because that girl down the hall is really cute?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Well, he would say that because he\u2019s so good to me; but no, he actually had his own life going.<\/p>\n<p><strong>11:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Remember, I was engaged, the whole time, to this atheist. This was <em>not<\/em> something that was: \u201cWe\u2019re dating and chatting.\u201d\u00a0 This was\u2014\u201cWe were friends.\u201d\u00a0 If you understand the Oxford scenario\u2014especially if you are studying as graduate students\u2014it\u2019s a tight-knit community. It\u2019s very supportive\u2014lots of cosmopolitan students. So, there are a lot of these conversations happening.<\/p>\n<p>There were several examples, Dennis, where I really\u2014I just was <em>determined<\/em> to take him down. I thought: \u201cIf I can get a hole in his armor, I can bring down his God; and I can show\u2014I\u2019m sure his answers are rote. He\u2019s a good, little pastor\u2019s boy. He\u2019s got all the memorized verses, and I am just going to trip him up!\u00a0 And you know, he\u2019s going to be secretly have all this sin going on. I\u2019m going to be able to blow this all apart and actually help him see things as they truly are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>One of the examples was\u2014I remember I was beginning to read the Bible. I started\u2014and I\u2019d thought: \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to sit down. I\u2019m going to read it from cover to cover.\u201d\u00a0 One of the stories that really bugged me was the thief on the cross at the crucifixion\u2014asking for God\u2019s forgiveness\u2014for Jesus\u2019 forgiveness, at the last minute.<\/p>\n<p><strong>12:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I remember saying to Kent: \u201cAnd Jesus forgives him and says, \u2018You\u2019ll be with me today in paradise.\u2019 I mean, what kind of justice is this?\u00a0 This is ridiculous!\u00a0 I mean, what about the guy, who isn\u2019t the criminal\u2014who isn\u2019t up there and who has lived the perfect life?\u201d\u00a0 You know\u2014kind of like the prodigal son\u2019s brother issue.<\/p>\n<p>And Kent said to me: \u201cThank God!\u00a0 Thank God, He forgives him, at the last minute, because we are all that thief on the cross.\u201d\u00a0 That was absolutely some arrow I had intended to shoot at him\u2014came back and struck me. It wasn\u2019t actually a deep, theological argument he gave me; but just the fact that he\u2014I remember him looking me in the eyes and saying, \u201cThat\u2019s who we all are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s the grace of God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>It\u2019s grace. There is grace\u2014the word that\u2019s thrown around, empty like other words\u2014then, there is grace\u2014when it\u2019s <em>the Word<\/em>. It hits you, and you feel it, and you get it. We also get a taste of it when it\u2019s modeled by other Christians.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, when did you really begin to hear God\u2019s voice whisper\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>13:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>When did you cry, \u201cUncle\u201d?\u00a0 That\u2019s what we want to know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>When did I cry, \u201cUncle\u201d?\u00a0 [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, there are two questions here. That\u2019s one Bob\u2019s asking\u2014yes. But when was the first time you began to sense God whispering to you?\u00a0 I want to find out what the final straw was that ultimately brought you to faith; but when did you begin to sense that God was pursuing you, and was it through Kent?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>That was one of the main forces. But I think that God sometimes whispers; and sometimes, He throws you sort of an avalanche. There were lots of little things. He knows our hearts and our Achilles\u2019 heels. One of my great passions is words. I love words\u2014I love puns.<\/p>\n<p>I arrived at Oriel College, which was the college I was studying at. I remember thinking, \u201cWell, is there a god?\u201d\u00a0 I mean, you can\u2019t be in a place like Oxford, and look at all the architecture, and not think about the religious implications. Walking through the Oriel College doorway, ducking under the 13<sup>th<\/sup> century doorway, and right in the courtyard is\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>14:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014it was built to King Charles.<\/p>\n<p>It says, \u201cCarolinas\u201d; but the beginning, \u201cCaro\u201d\u2014C-A-R-O\u2014is carved in huge letters in the front courtyard. The first thing I saw, when I arrived at Oxford\u2014which is my nickname\u2014only my pet name from all of my loved ones in my family calling me, \u201cCaro.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s also my father\u2019s name\u2014the feminine form of Charles\u2014and so, to me, that\u2014and to see all those little things that kept speaking to me. Sometimes, we might discard them as superstition, or people might feel silly talking about them; but I think God takes great delight in how He speaks to us in the language of our hearts. We know that something is whispering, and so just things like\u2014<\/p>\n<p>I remember not really having a Bible. Right across the street from me was Saint Mary\u2019s Cathedral\u2014beautiful old church\u2014and all these Bibles were in it. It was right across the street. The door was always open every time I went between Oriel College and the Bodleian Library every day to work. I would go in; and I started reading the Bible, literally, on these kind of borrowed pages.<\/p>\n<p><strong>15:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I thought about stealing one, but I didn\u2019t\u2014even I thought that was kind of low; right? [Laughter] \u201cWhy steal the cow when you can have the milk for free?\u201d\u2014right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Exactly\u2014so, back to Bob\u2019s question.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I think that there were those whisperings going on. And just the more I read of the Bible, as a trained reader, the more I realized that it was the most magnificent piece of literary non-fiction I had ever read!<\/p>\n<p>On a complete intellectual level, I thought: \u201cWow! All these sort of \u2018crazy stories\u2019 you hear\u2014being swallowed in whales and whatnot\u2014when you really look at them\u2014are so beautiful and deep. They resonate. And it\u2019s also so intricately woven, all the way from Genesis through to Revelation. I couldn\u2019t have made it up if I had tried!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And written by fishermen, and written by farmers, and\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Yes. All walks of life, and kings, and everything.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And painting people as they really are.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>As they really are. I found that there was somebody I knew in my own life\u2014there were always emanations in the Bible I could find\u2014and parts of myself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>16:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And in spite of myself, I found myself being drawn into it. That was before I really felt the electric jolt and volt of reading Scripture. I didn\u2019t feel it, yet, as revealed Word. I was just drawn in by the story and how amazingly intricate this idea of God\u2019s promise for us was. So, I read it, first, just as an academic or literary excursion; but then, it sinks in. Then, as you begin to meet more Christians, I started going to various churches and services.<\/p>\n<p>At Oxford, it\u2019s sort of in the air. There\u2019s even song after dinner. There are so many little chapels, and there are a lot of really wonderful, vibrant Christians there. The Lord brought many Christians into my path. I think one of the most powerful things we can do for unbelievers is to pray that they are assaulted by Christians in various ways. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But assaulted with love.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>With love, exactly. But in various\u2014varied degrees\u2014I mean, sometimes\u2014it\u2019s again, that season thing; isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 Sometimes, a gentle question is best; and sometimes, calling somebody on something hard is best, as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>17:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I remember Kent, at one point\u2014I refused to let him walk between me and the traffic, as a gentleman would, when he was walking me to the theater.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>But a good feminist\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>No, I did not\u2014I said to him, \u201cI don\u2019t need\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That was not acceptable?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>No. \u201cI do not need a man between me and the traffic.\u201d\u00a0 He stayed firm; and he said: \u201cI would treat any woman like this. You honor me by letting me do this.\u201d\u00a0 Well, what\u2019s a woman supposed to say to that?!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 What are you supposed to say?\u00a0 You know, \u201cThe greatest love we have is laying down our life for our friend.\u201d He would enact that.<\/p>\n<p>He was not throwing these things at me\u2014so much, verbally, all the time\u2014but he was living them for me. It becomes water on the best type of rock. It wears you down, and you realize that there is real love in what these Christians are doing and saying.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when was the moment?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>When did the shoe drop? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I think\u2014what I love about people\u2019s conversion stories is how different they all are\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>18:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>\u2014but what for me, it was a slow burn. It was Christians loving me. It was reading Scripture. It was going to Bishop Tutu when he visited. All of these wonderful things in the way that was happening at Oxford, but it was, eventually\u2014I remember Valentine\u2019s Day, 1994. I had just gone to a party where everybody was drinking, and partying, and throwing up, and all that kind of thing. It hit me that I wanted something more: \u201cThis was not all that we were made to be.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I didn\u2019t mean that in a condescending way\u2014just\u2014I could really see the lostness of things. I went back. I realized that really the only thing that was keeping me\u2014I wanted to actually become a Christian\u2014but I couldn\u2019t!\u00a0 You know, you hear that from people. I couldn\u2019t get over that barrier\u2014I couldn\u2019t make that leap. I remember praying, \u201cPlease, Lord, just remove my disbelief.\u201d\u00a0 You know\u2014that prayer that we also see in Scripture, too, of just: \u201cPlease help me in my unbelief.\u201d\u00a0 You can\u2019t really get any lower than that,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>19:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014I think, in prayer. He met me there and removed the disbelief. You can\u2019t go back\u2014you don\u2019t want to.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, you can\u2019t go back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>You can\u2019t get un-baptized.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>No, you can\u2019t. And to that person, who is listening to your story, and they\u2019re going: \u201cThat\u2019s me. That\u2019s my journey.\u201d Introduce that man or that woman to the same Savior you surrendered to.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>I would say to that man or that woman that our God is even greater than any doubt you can have. He\u2019s not a fragile God and that your disbelief isn\u2019t a barrier to Him either. I would say that\u2014even just praying that He would come and get you if you can\u2019t go any further. He will carry you to that place.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s just so hard to describe\u2014no matter all the other struggles in life\u2014even our doubts\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>20:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014the way that He\u2019s wired you is meant to glorify Him. Even asking questions is fine; having doubts is fine. It\u2019s just that\u2014once you get to that place with Him and you are given the gift of seeing, it\u2019s absolutely unspeakably beautiful. It\u2019s a deep, deep joy and a peace that\u2019s hard to put into words.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What we can\u2019t do is we can\u2019t save ourselves.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>No!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It takes what Jesus Christ did, through His sacrificial death on the cross and His resurrection, to ultimately come to us, and meet us like you\u2019re talking about,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and invite us into the family.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>Right; right. And when that really sinks in, in a soul way, it changes everything.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, on our website, we\u2019ve got a link there that says, \u201cTwo Ways to Live.\u201d It really does map out the choice that\u2019s in front of every person: \u201cWhich path are you going to choose?\u201d\u00a0 One path is a path that leads to life; the other is a path that leads to destruction.<\/p>\n<p><strong>21:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>You\u2019re standing at the fork in the road, saying, \u201cWhich path will I walk?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And the question for a listener, right now, is: \u201cWho is God to you, and what is your relationship with Him, and would you like a relationship?\u201d\u00a0 Nothing is being shoved down anybody\u2019s throat here. It\u2019s an invitation that we can receive, by faith, through the grace of God that He extends to us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click on the link you find there that says, \u201cTwo Ways to Live,\u201d to explore what we\u2019re talking about here and to find out what it means to have a relationship with God, through His Son, Jesus Christ.<\/p>\n<p>And while you\u2019re on our website, find out more about the books that Carolyn Weber has written. Her book, <em>Surprised by Oxford<\/em>, is her memoir of her time at Oxford. Her new book is called <em>Holy Is the Day: Living in the Gift of the Present<\/em>. It\u2019s a book that helps us re-center and recalibrate our lives around what really matters.<\/p>\n<p><strong>22:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Find out more about both books\u2014and you can order them from us, online, if you\u2019d like\u2014at FamilyLifeToday.com. Again, our website: FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, I got a note recently from a friend of mine who just jotted to say, \u201cHey, thank you for sending me the FamilyLife prayer card.\u201d\u00a0 We have a series of three prayer cards that we\u2019ve shared with people over the years. One is called \u201cLifting My Husband in Prayer.\u201d\u00a0 Then, there\u2019s \u201cLifting My Wife in Prayer\u201d and \u201cLifting My Children in Prayer.\u201d\u00a0 My friend said: \u201cI have the one for children tucked into my Bible. It\u2019s just a great helpful reminder of how I need to be praying for my kids regularly. It helps me direct my prayers and be focused on the right stuff.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>23:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>This month, we\u2019ve been sending out these prayer cards to listeners who help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation during the month of April. We appreciate your financial support. We couldn\u2019t do all that we do without you partnering with us. And these prayer cards are a way for us to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d and a way for us to provide you with a resource that we think will help strengthen your marriage, and your family, and your relationship with God.<\/p>\n<p>When you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the button that says, \u201cI Care,\u201d and make an online donation this month, we will send you all three of the prayer cards that we\u2019ve created for families. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the button that says, \u201cI Care.\u201d\u00a0 Or you can call and make a donation at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Ask for the prayer cards when you call, and we\u2019ll send those out to you. Or you can write a check and mail it to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Our mailing address is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,<\/p>\n<p>P O Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. And our zip code is 72223.<\/p>\n<p><strong>24:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Be sure to ask for the \u201cLifting My Family in Prayer\u201d bundle of cards when you write a note to us, and we appreciate your support of this ministry.<\/p>\n<p>And we hope you\u2019ll join us back again tomorrow. We\u2019re going to hear from Carolyn Weber about how her husband, Kent, eventually began to pursue her and how he proposed to her. We\u2019ll hear that story tomorrow. Hope you can tune in.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.<\/p>\n<p>Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2014 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/303013","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=303013"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=303013"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=303013"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=303013"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=303013"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=303013"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=303013"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}