{"id":302825,"date":"2013-10-03T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2013-10-03T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/own-it\/"},"modified":"2013-10-03T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2013-10-03T15:00:00","slug":"own-it","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/own-it\/","title":{"rendered":"Own It"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Michael and Hayley DiMarco talk to parents about helping their children develop their own walk with God.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-10-03.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.52M","filesize_raw":"25714393","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[4134],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[3373],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302825","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-life-change","cwp_profile-michael-and-hayley-dimarco","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302825\/own-it","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302825\/own-it","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"ctd7hXnF21\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/own-it\/\">Own It<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/own-it\/embed\/#?secret=ctd7hXnF21\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Own It&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"ctd7hXnF21\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Michael and Hayley DiMarco talk to parents about helping their children develop their own walk with God.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-10-03.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Hayley DiMarco can point to two very distinct chapters in her life\u2014\u201cThe Good Girl\u201d Chapter and \u201cThe Bad Girl\u201d Chapter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> I was forever wondering what was going to happen when I died and was scared to death of it. That was part of my moral choices\u2014is that I thought, \u201cIf I can be really good\u2014if I can do everything that I\u2019ve heard, through the grapevine, you should do\u2014then, maybe, I\u2019ll make it to heaven.\u201d There came a point in my life when I said, \u201cI just can\u2019t do it!\u201d There\u2019s just a point, where you say, \u201cI\u2019m just\u2014it\u2019s too much work!\u201d So, I said to myself: \u201cI\u2019m going to hell. I\u2019m going to have fun on the way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, October 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Michael and Hayley DiMarco join us today. We\u2019ll hear about the third chapter in Hayley DiMarco\u2019s life\u2014the chapter where she made her faith her own and where she went from bad girl to God\u2019s girl. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, we have talked, many times, about the fact that the teen years can be years when the water gets a little rougher\u2014when the traps\u2014that\u2019s the metaphor you\u2019ve often used\u2014that there are traps laid out for our teens. They need to learn to navigate around them or else they are going to get wounded. <br><br>I guess, I\u2019m thinking about the movie that\u2019s coming out this weekend\u2014the movie, <em>Grace Unplugged<\/em>\u2014because it tells the story of a young woman\u2014a teenager girl\u2014who decides to pursue her dreams, regardless of what her mom and dad want for her. Life does not go well for her when she makes those choices. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes. The Bible is such a raw, real book because Proverbs talks about snares\u2014talks about David and Bathsheba. It paints humanity, warts and all. In fact, one of the most famous stories, of all, in the Bible\u2014that Jesus told was about the prodigal son and his father\u2019s love for him. I think, as we take on the assignment of raising kids, at some point, you have to take a step back and go: \u201cNow, where are we headed here? What\u2019s the purpose of this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese children start out as hitchhikers on your faith, as a parent. Your goal, as a parent, is not to raise them to adulthood, still on your coattails. You\u2019ve got to raise them to adulthood so\u2014by the time they get there\u2014they have begun, in earnest, the process of developing a faith of their own. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we have a pair of people with us in the studio today, Michael and Hayley DiMarco, who, I think\u2014they are nodding their heads\u2014I think they agree with me on this because they\u2019ve just completed a book called <em>Own It<\/em>. Welcome back to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> It\u2019s good to be back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Thanks for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You guys agree with that\u2014don\u2019t you\u2014what I just said? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> We do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I mean, as parents, our goal is for our children to independently have their own dependence upon Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and it\u2019s interesting, too, because you\u2019ll hear a lot of people give a testimony in adult life. Here\u2019s what\u2014if there is a most common testimony, this is the one I\u2019ve heard most often. You are smiling. You know what I\u2019m talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI gave my heart to Jesus when I was\u201d\u2014fill in the blank\u2014\u201cseven,\u201d\u2014 \u201cbut I really didn\u2019t make it my own\u2026\u201d \u201cI really didn\u2019t\u2026\u201d\u2014whatever\u2014\u201cI really didn\u2019t do this\u2026\u201d or, \u201cI came back around,\u201d\u2014there does seem to be something going on, in the progression of a child\u2019s life, where there is a point that faith locks in and becomes substantial, rather than secondary. You know what I\u2019m talking about? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Absolutely. I think that the key to\u2014especially, the teen years\u2014the years of spreading the wings, leaving the nest, or\u2014gulp\u2014rebellion\u2014is parents will live in fear that their child\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s exactly right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> \u2014is not getting it\u2014is not on the same boat. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I was talking to a dad, the other day. He was talking about a conversation he\u2019d had, the night before, with his daughter about doubt. This dad said, \u201cI was <em>delighted<\/em> that she told me about her doubt\u2014about her faith in God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> That\u2019s refreshing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> \u2014because most parents, that we encounter, freak out\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Michael:<\/strong> \u2014when there\u2019s doubt\u2014when there\u2019s that late-night conversation, right before bed, and the parent\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cSweetheart, you can\u2019t\u2014no, you can\u2019t feel this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Right. \u201cI can\u2019t let you go to sleep until\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Yes\u2014\u201cwe figure this out.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cresolve this.\u201d Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> You\u2019ve known our daughter since infancy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s been coming and going from your studios. It was probably two years ago, when she was five, that she asked Hayley\u2014really, to extend bedtime because she knows the way to extend bedtime with Momma is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Don\u2019t they all? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> \u2014to have spiritual discussions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, there you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Michael:<\/strong> Yes. It\u2019s not: \u201cCan I have water? I\u2019m thirsty.\u201d She\u2019ll go spiritual. So, Addie said, \u201cMomma, I just can\u2019t understand how God is self-existent.\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your five-year-old? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Welcome to our world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s in the genes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Some kids get it; you know? They got it from their parents; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s the curse. It\u2019s like a familial curse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, what did you do? What did you do, Hayley, when Addie said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Well, my first instinct is\u2014like you just said, with every parent, \u201cOh, no!\u201d because she just accepted Christ, in her four-year-old way\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> \u2014the year before. I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, no! Now, she\u2019s having doubts.\u201d My first instinct was to panic and say, \u201cNo, that\u2019s not true,\u201d and to explain it again\u2014self-existence. But I said: \u201cWell, I can understand that. We all have doubts. That\u2019s a hard thing to understand, and God is <em>so<\/em> big. It is hard for our brains to wrap ourselves around it, but you\u2019ve seen our lives and you know what we believe. So, I\u2019m not going to tell you what you believe. It\u2019s something you have to decide.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the whole time I\u2019m like\u2014\u201cYou have to decide by yourself. I trust that you\u2019re going to make a good decision, but you know where I stand. I\u2019m here. You can ask me anything about God, and I\u2019ll continue to tell you what I believe to be the truth.\u201d She said, \u201cOkay, well, I\u2019m going to have to think about it for a while.\u201d I said, \u201cOkay.\u201d And then, I went to my room; and I prayed\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and got out your Grudem\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> \u2014and prayed and prayed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and opened it up for self-existence. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cHow do I explain this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> We\u2019ve had a lot of talks since then, and she\u2019s grown a lot. I think that\u2019s still a stumbling\u2014that\u2019s a hard one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting because one of the themes of the movie\u2014of <em>Grace Unplugged<\/em>, the movie that\u2019s coming out this week\u2014is a theme of a daughter who begins to question. Mom and Dad aren\u2019t entirely comfortable with it. She\u2019s really been faking it\u2014you know\u2014kind of playing the game. In fact, I had to wonder, \u201cHayley, as you watched her in this movie, were you flashing back to your teenage years?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Oh, yes. Oh, yes, because that was me. I mean, I moved to L.A. to have my career. [Laughter] I did. I did. I was going to be an actress. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> At what age? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> I was 20\u201421. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Seriously? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Yes. Yes. Now, I could really relate\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Were you raised in the church, then? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> No, I was not raised in the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, you weren\u2019t faking religion, at that point? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> I wasn\u2019t\u2014I believed in Jesus\u2014I just wasn\u2019t raised in a church. That\u2019s a whole other story; but I did say, \u201cI believe in Jesus.\u201d I did believe who He was, and I prayed and all those things. I didn\u2019t have any training. I didn\u2019t have parents that trained me. So, I kind of created my own kind of faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, going down\u2014I saw her moving to L.A\u2014and I saw how easy it is to let the world tell you what you need to do and how you need to get ahead. When you\u2019re the person, defining what\u2019s important and where you need to go, rather than allowing God to do it, I saw the pitfalls in her and could relate very much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You thought, \u201cBeen there. Done that\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Yes, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> At the same time, you were wrestling, in your own life, with what would happen to you if you died; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Oh, yes. Oh, definitely. [Laughter] Yes, because I didn\u2019t have a lot of education. I didn\u2019t have a lot of\u2014my parents didn\u2019t reveal to me any faith or teach me any. I was forever wondering what was going to happen when I died and was scared to death of it. And that was part of my moral choices\u2014is that I thought that, \u201cIf I can be really good\u2014if I can do everything that I\u2019ve heard, through the grapevine, you should do\u2014then, maybe, I\u2019ll make it to heaven.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere came a point in my life when I said, \u201cI just can\u2019t do it!\u201d I see this\u2014\u201cI\u2019m not\u201d\u2014and I saw that in Grace\u2014in the movie. There is just a point where you say, \u201cI\u2019m just\u2014it\u2019s too much work.\u201d So, I said to myself: \u201cI\u2019m going to hell. I\u2019m just going to have fun on the way. I\u2019m just going to live it up because I\u2019m not good enough.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, you went from a childhood basic expression of faith to a rejection of faith. When did you make your faith your own? When did you own it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> I was in my 20s. I was driving limousines in Portland, Oregon, and cussing like a sailor\u2014although I didn\u2019t deny my faith. I said I was a Christian, but I didn\u2019t act like it. There was a Christian boy there that was very cute. He told me: \u201cYou know, it doesn\u2019t make any sense. You say you\u2019re a Christian, but you don\u2019t act like one.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was at the point\u2014when I told him about the thing\u2014\u201cI\u2019m going to hell, and I\u2019m going to have fun,\u201d\u2014he said, \u201cDo you know this verse?\u201d He showed me Romans 10:9, \u201cIf we confess with our mouth and believe in our heart that Jesus is Lord, you\u2019ll be saved.\u201d That was the point. That was the one thing I needed to hear\u2014where I went, \u201cWhat?!\u201d\u2014 that\u2014\u201cWhat? That\u2019s it. That\u2019s as easy as it is?\u201d He said, \u201cYes, that\u2019s as easy as it is. That\u2019s your answer\u2014it\u2019s Him, not you.\u201d That was my moment, where I\u2014everything\u2014I dropped it all, and everything changed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And to that person, who is listening to us right now, who is faking it or who is, as you guys say\u2014borrowing it, or renting it, and doesn\u2019t own it\u2014what would you say to them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Well, I would just say something that they already know\u2014deep down\u2014and that is: \u201cIt\u2019s wholly unsatisfying to have kind of a Frankenstein faith, where you pick and choose what parts you like, and what parts you accept, and what parts you believe\u2014then, you discard the others because it\u2019s empty.\u201d When a faith is someone else\u2019s\u2014and you borrow it or you\u2019re just renting it\u2014as Hayley did\u2014where she felt like she had to pay her way through her faith, until she figured out she couldn\u2019t afford it. So, she just gave up\u2014it\u2019s a cruel sentence. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s well-said.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> It\u2019s a cruel sentence; and there is freedom, that is available to everyone, freely. We don\u2019t deserve it. We can\u2019t earn it. We can\u2019t afford the mortgage, but the mortgage has been paid. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You had, what you call, a pick-and-choose faith growing up. Your spiritual formation was a mixed-up kind of a spiritual quagmire; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Yes. Yes, a quagmire was my middle name. Really, what it led me to\u2014was the same point that it led Hayley\u2014was just this realization of, \u201cThis isn\u2019t working!\u201d Really, it\u2019s that point where you become\u2014well, you really reach the end of yourself\u2014that God says, \u201cFinally, I can make something out of this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s when God takes over because\u2014in the movie\u2014the beautiful thing about the movie is\u2014we encounter so many people that\u2014especially, now, that we are relocated in the South\u2014in Nashville\u2014in the buckle of the Bible Belt\u2014we encounter so many people that grow up in the church. They know the stories. They know Noah. They know Jonah. They\u2019ve got all of that down; but really, what they end up doing is living a life that\u2019s not theirs. They are living their parents\u2019 lives. They are living\u2014they are living a life that they\u2019ve just kind of manufactured. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you own your faith, when\u2014just like the character, Grace, in the movie, after reading the book, <em>Own It<\/em>\u2014she has this revelation that: \u201cThis has never been my own,\u201d and, \u201cIt can be my own. It can be a relationship and not just a list of rules.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> One of the things I know you all talk about in your book is that, if you really own your faith, it\u2019s truly going to cost you. I\u2019ll illustrate that from my own life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I was in the book of Romans, as a 20-year-old, and began to understand the love of God, poured out through the person of Jesus Christ, and that He was chasing me down, I remember nausea. I remember being sick, at my stomach, thinking: \u201cI don\u2019t think Christianity is a bunch of do\u2019s and don\u2019ts, but this decision is going to cost me myself.\u201d I look back on that decision\u2014that I fought through the nausea. I did have a strange thought that, \u201cIf I did give my life to Christ, that I would have to wear black, and get on a banana boat, and go to Africa or something.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know?\u2014become a missionary. It is interesting that I ended up being in ministry, at the end of it all; but when the Hound of Heaven is after you\u2014whatever He\u2019s calling you to deny, whatever He\u2019s calling you to give up, whatever ownership the world has on your soul or your own flesh\u2014it\u2019s worth it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> That\u2019s a great visual because I just pictured\u2014there is an age where you hear the Hound\u2019s barking\u2014but then, there\u2019s that moment where you get treed. [Laughter] And I pictured you, in a tree, going, \u201cAlright, you got me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m surrounded.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You said that that often happens when you come to the end of yourself. For a parent, that\u2019s a pretty scary thing because: \u201cWhat is that going to mean for my son or my daughter? How far are they going to have to fall? How bad is it going to have to get? Are they going to have to be in Portland, driving limousines before God will rescue them?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Or \u201c\u2026in a jail cell?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Tell the listeners about your story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Well, it was a long time ago that I was here and shared about it; but I did my running on my own for so long that I had developed just a coping mechanism of\u2014a\u00a0 medication, if you will. Some people find it in drugs, or alcohol, or even sex. Mine was gambling. I had run my way through relationship after relationship until the point where, I would just gamble, just to medicate\u2014to numb myself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was sitting at a blackjack table, after taking money from my work to extend my gambling between paychecks. I was looking at $1,500 on this blackjack table\u2014that I had in play. It was the first time I ever prayed in a casino. For the first time, I prayed. I said, \u201cGod, I don\u2019t care what you do\u2014just get me out of this.\u201d I lost every hand. That $1,500 went away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had to go back to work\u2014and I was a great liar. I was a great concealer. Someone\u2014miraculously, that day, supernaturally\u2014said: \u201cHey! What\u2019s the deal with these cash requisitions?\u201d In a moment of just crystal clarity, I just looked up, and I said, \u201cWell, they are bogus.\u201d That took me to jail\u2014where I had my Chuck Colson moment\u2014a Gideon Bible\u2014Second Corinthians 5:17. It was just\u2014it was just\u2014boom!\u2014the beginning of me owning my faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, did that mean that I was perfect, at that point; and I didn\u2019t make any mistakes or bad decisions, from that point on? Absolutely not, but that\u2019s when my faith became real\u2014where I said: \u201cThis is my Savior. This is my identity. Me\u2014doing it my way\u2014me, living life trying to control what I want to control\u2014that doesn\u2019t work.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When we talk about believing, I think there is a difference between believing and trusting. Now, I say that\u2014and I want to be clear because, honestly, if you really believe, trust is tied to that\u2014but I think we have a whole bunch of people who say: \u201cI believe the facts. I believe the data. I ascribe to this;\u201d but if you\u2019re believing doesn\u2019t produce trusting, then, it\u2019s not really believing. If you say, \u201cI believe Jesus is the Resurrected Son of God,\u201d and that doesn\u2019t alter everything about your life, what do you really believe? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> And the Bible testifies to that\u2014\u201cEven the demons say that it is so.\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cBelieve\u201d\u2014yes; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> \u2014So, that\u2019s not owning your faith. That\u2019s acknowledging that faith can exist. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, we may be talking to folks\u2014whether teenagers, grown-ups\u2014but folks who would say: \u201cYes, I believe in God. I believe\u2014I pray. I go to church.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Maybe, they are hearing the Hound of Heaven and He has them treed, right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Up the tree. What\u2019s the difference between what they are doing\u2014that, \u201cI believe in Jesus,\u201d\u2014and the trusting that alters the rest of their life, where they really own their faith? What is that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> One of the things that we often say to people\u2014and it sounds harsh. So, everybody just get ready. Sit down, wherever you are. Pull the car over. If God isn\u2019t changing you, then, He hasn\u2019t saved you because believe\u2014when you truly believe, your life is going to change. Things will continually change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> It\u2019s not just that you change once and, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve changed.\u201d There is a daily, \u201cOh, my goodness!\u201d where you recognize sin\u2014you work through it. You are: \u201cWow!\u201d Then, there is another one. Then, there\u2019s another. There\u2019s just\u2014we\u2019re continually changing when we are growing. It\u2019s a dead plant that\u2019s not changing. In order to grow, we must be changing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Hayley, that person, who is listening to you right now, and goes: \u201cYou got me. That\u2019s me. I don\u2019t want to live like this anymore.\u201d Maybe, she felt like you did\u2014\u201cI\u2019m headed to hell, and I haven\u2019t cared,\u201d\u2014but you know\u2014recent circumstances\u2014maybe, this broadcast has interrupted their lives and they are ready. Take them, by the hand, and introduce them to Jesus Christ and how they can establish a true belief, like Bob was talking about, that does result in trust and transformation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Well, I\u2014probably, the first sense is an overwhelming sense of guilt. When you come to this point, you think: \u201cOh, man! What an idiot I\u2019ve been,\u201d or, \u201cHow did I miss this?\u201d or, \u201cHow much have I messed up, and why would He want me\u2014after all of this?\u201d So, there has to be an understanding of the purpose of guilt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible tells us that godly sorrow, which is another word for guilt, leads to repentance. We have to allow that feeling of guilt to lead us to repentance. In other words, to lead us to the point to say: \u201cI have sinned. I\u2019ve messed up,\u201d but, in that moment of confession and repentance, to then, to accept what God offers. He says, \u201cIf we confess our sins, God is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins.\u201d <br><br>We have to allow our guilt to be washed away\u2014and not to live on it, and to continue to complain about it, or, \u201cHow did this happen?\u201d\u2014but to know that it is instantly gone. His death on the cross was enough to cover anyone\u2019s sins. It doesn\u2019t matter who it is. It doesn\u2019t matter what you\u2019ve done. If you\u2019ve killed someone, it\u2019s enough to forgive your sins. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, understanding that, I think, is crucial for all of us because it can be easy to just kind of see the light comes on and go: \u201cBut I\u2019m not worth it,\u201d or, \u201cI\u2019m not worthy,\u201d\u2014no, you are not worthy. None of us are worthy, but He\u2019s worthy. He is<em> enough<\/em>; and He wants, today, to change your life. All you have to do is to say: \u201cI\u2019m up for that. I\u2019m ready. I want to change; but I\u2019m not going to be able to do it by myself. Only You\u2014and You alone\u2014can do it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And it\u2019s not the faith that saves you. It\u2019s the object of the faith\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014that results in redemption. I just want to read this passage, Second Corinthians, Chapter 5, verse 17, \u201cTherefore,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The one Michael read in the jail cell. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Michael:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cTherefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come.\u201d Doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re going to sprout angel wings and grow a halo; but it does mean you will experience that God declares you forgiven\u2014right with Him\u2014being declared, \u201cNot guilty.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hayley:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and really, invite you into His family, and make you His son or daughter, and give you a mission, and finally, be used for how God created you to be used. That\u2019s what it is all about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> Well, and we write about this, in the book, that owning your faith will save you, owning your faith will cost you, owning your faith will change you\u2014as Hayley said\u2014owning your faith will complete you; but ultimately, owning your faith will free you. Here\u2019s the real reveal: \u201cWhen you own your faith, it\u2019s really God owning you. It\u2019s really God saying, \u2018You are my son,\u2019\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cGot you!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> \u2014\u201c\u2019You are my daughter. You are treed!\u2019\u201d [Laughter] Like Zacchaeus, we just need to come down from that tree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And guess who is at the base of the tree? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Jesus Christ. He is alive from the dead; and because He has defeated death, He has all the power He needs to save you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. If our listeners are interested\u2014on our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, on the left side of the screen, under where it says, \u201cResource Center\u201d\u2014there is a tab there that says, \u201cTwo Ways to Live\u201d. If you click on that tab, it will lay out for you, very clearly, the choice that is in front of every one of us: \u201cAre we going to live according to our own agenda, or are we going to follow the narrow way that God has called us to?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d encourage our listeners: \u201cGo to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click on the link, on the left side of the page, that says, \u2018Two Ways to Live\u2019.\u201d It\u2019s under the Resource Center tab. And while you are there, get a copy of the book that Michael and Hayley DiMarco have written, called <em>Own It: Making Your Faith Your Own<\/em>. The book is featured, prominently, in the movie that comes out tomorrow night\u2014called <em>Grace Unplugged<\/em>. It\u2019ll be opening in theaters all around the country. If you\u2019d like more information, or if you\u2019d like to see some exclusive clips that we have available, go to our website: FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, the turning point that took place in Hayley DiMarco\u2019s life\u2014when she owned her faith\u2014a similar kind of turning point took place in Jennie Allen\u2019s life when she prayed a prayer that she says was one of the most frightening prayers she has every prayed. It was the prayer that said, \u201cGod, we will do anything.\u201d She shares her story in a book called <em>Anything<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, we are making that book available to those of you who can help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation to help keep us on the air in this city and cities all across the country. Your donations go to cover the costs of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. We appreciate your partnership with us so much. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to make an online donation. Just click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can make your donation over the phone. Ask for a copy of the book\u2014called <em>Anything<\/em>\u2014when you get in touch with us. Or send a check and mail your request for the book, <em>Anything<\/em>, to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P. O. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBox 7111, Little Rock, AR. And our zip code is 72223. Again, it\u2019s <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tP. O. Box 7111, Little Rock, AR, 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk with the writer, the producer, and the director of the movie, <em>Grace Unplugged<\/em>\u2014Russ Rice and Brad Silverman will be here with us. And we\u2019ll tell you more about the new movie on tomorrow\u2019s program. Hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife. 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