{"id":302785,"date":"2013-07-25T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2013-07-25T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/getting-real-about-sexual-struggles\/"},"modified":"2013-07-25T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2013-07-25T15:00:00","slug":"getting-real-about-sexual-struggles","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/getting-real-about-sexual-struggles\/","title":{"rendered":"Getting Real about Sexual Struggles"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Sexual sin isn\u2019t just a vice for men. Women struggle just as much, but in different ways.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-25.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.67M","filesize_raw":"25865125","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2093],"tags":[5298,2989,4271],"podcast_series":[7963],"cwp_profile":[9309],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302785","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-women","tag-freedom","tag-pornography","tag-sin","podcast_series-sexual-sanity-for-women","cwp_profile-ellen-dykas","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302785\/getting-real-about-sexual-struggles","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302785\/getting-real-about-sexual-struggles","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"uj5cc2Bk8B\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/getting-real-about-sexual-struggles\/\">Getting Real about Sexual Struggles<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/getting-real-about-sexual-struggles\/embed\/#?secret=uj5cc2Bk8B\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Getting Real about Sexual Struggles&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"uj5cc2Bk8B\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-25.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-25.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When the book, <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em>, was first released, there were a lot of Christian women who saw nothing wrong with a little escapist entertainment. \u201cAfter all,\u201d they said, \u201cif I\u2019m not having an affair and I\u2019m not tempted to lust after someone, why not read a spicy novel?\u201d Here\u2019s a response from author, Ellen Dycas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> What you\u2019ve just described is what we hear all the time. It shows how the body of Christ is so in need of discipleship about biblical sexuality. A lot of Christian women have not been discipled in even what a biblical view of sexuality is. So, they are going to see the <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em> as kind of an amazing romance story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, July 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. In a culture that has gone crazy, sexually, we\u2019re going to talk today about what it looks like to take every thought captive and to make no provision for the flesh. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, we\u2019re talking this week about the issue of sexual brokenness. Most often, when I think of how sexual sin is occurring in our culture, I think of guys. I think that guys tend to be more sexually sinful than women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think we\u2019re about to find out from our guest today that really both male and female struggle over sexual brokenness. Ellen Dycas joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Ellen, welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> It\u2019s really great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Ellen serves in the women\u2019s ministry at Harvest USA, which is a ministry that works with people who are struggling with sexual brokenness\u2014helps the Church\u2014partnering with a church to really equip them to do a better job and creating a safe and secure place for people to get real and deal with their stuff. Ellen is a mentor. She\u2019s a blogger, and she is an author; and she is the editor of <em>Sexual Sanity for Women<\/em>. <br><br>Let\u2019s talk about Bob\u2019s statement. Do women struggle, equally, around this issue of sexual brokenness as men do? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And let me just say, as we start here, I recognize, theologically, that\u2019s true. It\u2019s just as I look in the culture, I think, experientially, it doesn\u2019t seem as obvious to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Right. Women may be struggling in different ways\u2014maybe manifesting sexual sin in little bits of different ways\u2014but they are struggling in amazing proportions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Introduce us to a woman who you\u2019ve met in the past year or so who was struggling out of this brokenness so we kind of get a picture of what we\u2019re talking about here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Okay. I\u2019ll mention two because they represent two different types of women or different age ranges. One was a young 20-something sister in Christ\u2014just a dear woman\u2014actually, studying to prepare for ministry herself. She heard me speak at her campus, and she was one of the women that came up and wanted to have a follow-up conversation. As it turns out, she has had long-time struggles with sexual self-gratification, as well as struggles with pornography. She had never had an opportunity to talk to anybody about those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother woman came; and she, actually, had similar sorts of struggles. She was a good bit older. When she was telling me about her struggles with, basically, promiscuity and just craving the sexual attentions of men, she said, \u201cEllen, I guess, I\u2019m just like a man.\u201d I said, \u201cNo, sister, you\u2019re just like a woman, who is broken in this area of your life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is there a common thread between those two women? I mean\u2014when you peel back the sexual brokenness in women, are there some commonalities that you find at the core? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> I do. I mean, I think one of the core threads that I see with every single woman\u2014and I relate this to my own life\u2014is that there has been deep, emotional pain\u2014broken-heartedness\u2014that they have never learned how to articulate, much less, how to bring that into their Christian experience\u2014like how does Christ reach into the depths of who they are? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, whether if it\u2019s a woman struggling\u2014homosexually, heterosexually, sex with self, sex through pornography-viewing\u2014that, I could say, is 99 percent of the women who come to us are struggling to know how to really be honest and come to Christ in light of their own emotional pain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There\u2019s a stereotype\u2014and I\u2019m one of the people who has stood up in front of groups and said this\u2014men tend to be visual; women tend not to be visual when it comes to sexual stimulation. So, have I been misstating this, or\u2014just unpack this whole issue of women and pornography for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Rather than saying, \u201c\u2026misstating it,\u201d I think it can be misleading because look at the billion-dollar romance novel industry\u2014which is generally what women are associated with. More and more, there is this genre of literature called erotica literature, which is basically pornography through words. I think of what a former colleague said, in light of this misnomer \u201cthat men are always more visual \/ women are more emotional.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor the romance novel industry to flourish the way it has, among women, they need to be able to take those words and <em>visualize<\/em> them in their own minds, creating a fantasy world. So, I think the sexual response may be different between men and women; but I think women are just as visual\u2014and in fact, studies show that women are more prone to actually take what they\u2019ve seen in pornography and go act upon it in a real-life scenario. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the last thing I will say about this is that pornographers\u2014they\u2019re also very smart at what they do. They know how to target a certain audience, whether it\u2019s children or women. So, there have been increasing numbers of pornographic material available that have a more relational theme that actually bring in an aspect of romance to it. Women are being targeted, and they are being sucked into that as much as men are to some of the other genres. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, what percentage would you say of women today are struggling with pornography? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> One statistic, that\u2019s kind of been around for a while, would say that one out of three visitors to a sexual website is a woman. Sixty percent of girls\u201418 and under\u2014have viewed internet pornography themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Sixty percent? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Sixty percent. And I can only assume that, as technology advances, those statistics are going to continue to grow and grow. <br><br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, you\u2019re saying that, because of technology today and the accessibility of pornography\u2014how easy it is to access it\u2014that this is a growing phenomenon with women today? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> I would say, \u201cYes, it is growing.\u201d I mean, I can\u2019t speak to how much it has grown over the past, say, 15 or 20 years; but that it is now on the rise is absolutely true as more and more teen girls and more and more 20-something girls are even coming out into the open with their parents or with mentors and saying, \u201cI\u2019ve got a problem here.\u201d As we all know, with the rise of technology, pornography has become something that is free of charge and completely anonymous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I mean, I, myself, was one of those girls\u2014as a 12-year-old, babysitting in my neighborhood\u2014found some pornographic magazines in the towel closet. I had never seen porn. I don\u2019t think\u2014as best I know, I don\u2019t think it was anywhere in my own home; but I found those magazines, and you can bet where I went every time I went to babysit that house. Then, somehow, after several months, they were just gone. I think that was the Lord rescuing me. This was before the internet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, with the accessibility of it, you can do it in the privacy of your own home or your car, with your phone. Unfortunately, it is going to continue to be something that is probably going to grow\u2014in people accessing it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s not a matter of \u201cif\u201d; it\u2019s really a matter of \u201cwhen\u201d. Even your daughter is going to see something\u2014some kind of image\u2014that, as you said, is unholy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I had a friend of mine come to me a little more than a year ago. He said, \u201cAre you and Dennis going to talk on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> about these books that are out this summer?\u201d I said, \u201cWhat books?\u201d He said, \u201cWomen in our church\u201d\u2014he said, \u201cThe women in the church are reading\u201d\u2014and I didn\u2019t know what he was talking about. Well, I found out what he was talking about, and you know what I\u2019m talking about; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> I think I do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em> books\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that flooded the market and seemed to be this amazing phenomenon. There were not a whole lot of guys reading those books; was it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> It\u2019s been primarily women, as I understand it. In fact, this genre of, what I would call, pornography\u2014it\u2019s pornography in print\u2014has been labeled erotica. It\u2019s actually being referred to, in some places, as mommy-porn because it can be easily accessed on e-Readers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat is most sobering\u2014and you\u2019ve already kind of mentioned this, Bob\u2014is that many Christian women have been reading these books. It\u2019s a trilogy that\u2019s going to be made into a movie; and they\u2019ve been finding no problem with it, in light of their Christian faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, a woman that says: \u201cYes, I read it. It\u2019s fantasy. It\u2019s escapism. It\u2019s\u2014I mean, it didn\u2019t do anything to me, personally. I still love Jesus, and I still love my husband; and I don\u2019t want to go have an affair. So, what\u2019s the big deal with it?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> What you\u2019ve just described is what we hear all the time. It shows how the body of Christ is so in need of discipleship about biblical sexuality. I\u2019ll just\u2014I\u2019ll tell a story of, again, a blog post I read. Dannah Gresh, who has a ministry in Pennsylvania, wrote a blog post on why, \u201cI\u2019m Not Reading <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em>\u201d. It took me a couple of hours to do a pretty thorough skim of all the posts and responses\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> All the comments she got, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> \u2014all the comments. But one of the most disheartening responses was from a woman, who is married to a pastor. The <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em> kind of highlight a type of sexual relating that is absolutely against God\u2019s design for sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s abusive. Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> It\u2019s abusive. It\u2019s utilizing pain, and violence, and things like that. This woman, in a very angry tone, was defending that she and her husband actually participated in this kind of sexual relating and were, in fact, honoring their marriage bed because they both had consented to it\u2014with nothing, at all, of looking at how the sexual relationship in marriage is meant to image Christ and His relationship to His people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, a lot of Christian women have not been discipled in even what a biblical view of what sexuality is. So, they are going to see this\u2014the <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em>\u2014as kind of an amazing romance story of\u2014\u201cAn amazing love story\u201d is how it\u2019s being publicized. I think that so many Christian women have been sucked into that\u2014just shows the need for discipleship about, \u201cWhat is God\u2019s design?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And I\u2019m thinking of these wives who have read this\u2014who are moms of daughters\u2014and it can\u2019t do anything but hurt their relationship with their daughters, in terms of giving their daughters a biblical view of human sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat would you say to a mom, who is raising a daughter today in this sexually- pervasive culture of pornography and everything\u2014what would you say to her about equipping her to do a good job of warning your daughter and yet, at the same time, creating a safe relationship for her daughter to share what she\u2019s experiencing? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> The first place I would go would be just to talk with that mom. If she is open to this, before I\u2019m going to want to give her parenting discipleship, I\u2019m going to want to find out, \u201cWhere is she at, herself?\u201d So, my first point with that mom is going to be just sister to sister\u2014me to her\u2014how does she need help\u2014herself\u2014in understanding biblical sexuality and maybe even just parenting principles? Then, stemming down from that, I\u2019m going to want to help her begin to grow\u2014and how does she communicate with her daughter, in age-appropriate ways, and not just the dos and don\u2019ts. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo often, that is something that churches have tried to promote in their purity conferences, which is good\u2014of just, \u201cWait until marriage,\u201d\u2014but what they are completely neglecting is the purposes behind that\u2014the reasons behind that, the\u2014what Paul talks about in Romans 13, 14, \u201cPut on the Lord Jesus Christ <em>and<\/em> make no provision for the flesh in regards to its lusts.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the way I would help a mom with her daughter is going to be: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow are you, first, going to disciple your daughter about being a godly young woman in Christ? And how does that relate to her, as a growing sexual being? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then, what are going to be those protections that are going to be put in place to make no provision\u2014helping in things like relationships, technology, entertainment?\u2014all those areas where, I believe, parents have been given that mantle of responsibility to hinder temptation for their children\u2014and then, to disciple their children how to make those wise choices themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And one thing you hinted at there\u2014that I just like to comment on, from our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway\u2014is, I think, we need to give our daughters and our sons, as far as that goes, a biblical view of what the purpose is\u2014what God\u2019s purpose is for sex in the first place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe talk about it at the conference, Bob, you know? We talk about how it\u2019s a part of reflecting the image of God in our sexuality. It is given to us for pleasure, for comfort, for propagation of the species\u2014of men and women, coming together, to create another generation of godly men and women who form marriages and families, at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we give young people a biblical view of what sex is all about\u2014to compare with the culture\u2014that\u2019s going to help them spot the frauds\u2014those things that are counterfeit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ellen, you mentioned Dannah Gresh. I remember when she was a guest on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We talked about one of the reasons parents don\u2019t want to have this kind of engagement with their sons or their daughters\u2014and in fact, I think we\u2019ve got a clip from the interview we did with Dannah, where she talked about how this was a challenge for her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Audio clip]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dannah:<\/strong> I was listening to Dr. James Dobson. He was interviewing a woman\u2014a mother, I believe\u2014on the subject of raising sexually-pure children. He asked her, \u201cWhat\u2019s the number one question on a teen girl\u2019s mind when a mother is talking to her about the subject of sexual purity?\u201d Without hesitation, that woman said, \u201cThe number one question on a young woman\u2019s mind is, \u2018Mom, did you wait?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had to pull to the side of the road and just allow ten years of incredible grief to engulf me for, really, the first time because, at the age of 15, I was a Christian young woman, at a Christian high school, serving the Lord through Child Evangelism Fellowship\u2014<em>loved<\/em> the Lord with all my heart\u2014really truly did; but I was in a Christian dating relationship. I thought I was immune to sexual temptation, but I found out that I wasn\u2019t; and it grieved my heart deeply. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe day I was driving down the road, with my brand-new baby girl in the back seat, and I heard that question, \u201cMom, did you wait,\u201d the dam broke. My heart broke. I had to sit there, and hold her, and cry, and realize that I needed to bravely go through a healing process so that I could mentor her effectively so that she would not know the pain that I knew.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Would it have helped you if your mom, or your dad, or if a Christian peer had come to you and said: \u201cDannah, I\u2019d like for you to be more specific. How far are you going to go, prior to marriage?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dannah:<\/strong> Absolutely. It\u2019s vital! You have <em>got<\/em> to do that with your kids. I truly believe if somebody had sat down and said, \u201cYou know, let\u2019s talk about this.\u201d I would have drawn my line much sooner. I would have maybe had some of the self-control to stop, at that minute\u2014just because it had been engrained into my mind. We\u2019ve got to do this with our kids. The other thing I think is really important is that the standard is not virginity. I talk to the girls about: \u201cPurity is not this virgin line. That\u2019s not purity.\u201d God\u2019s standard is, \u201cLet there not be a <em>hint<\/em> of sexual immorality in your life.\u201d That line is drawn, <em>way<\/em> before the virgin line. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe thing that surprises parents, when I talk to them, is that the place they want most to learn about sexual purity is from their parents\u2014not a book, not high school, not the youth pastor\u2014their parents. Studies confirm this. One study of mothers and daughters\u2014the mothers and daughters were asked the same question: \u201cAre you communicating <em>effectively<\/em> about the subject of sexuality?\u201d The mothers said, \u201cOh, yes, we\u2019ve talked about it\u201d\u2014like 89 percent of the mothers said, \u201cDoing great job.\u201d Only about 30 percent of the daughters agreed. They said: \u201cWe\u2019re not doing it! This isn\u2019t how we want it to be.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the interviewer said, \u201cWell, what would make it better?\u201d They said: \u201cShe needs to bring it up. My mother needs to bring this subject up more often.\u201d They want to talk to their moms about it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, listening to Dannah share her own experience in this, I think the thing that moms and dads have to keep in mind is that having a conversation with your teen about this subject is different than delivering a lecture to your son or daughter on this subject. We have got to learn, as parents: \u201cHow do we engage with our kids? How do we ask questions? How do we hear things that we may be uncomfortable hearing without flinching and freaking out, as parents?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEllen, you talked about having a conversation with a mom, first, about her own view of sexuality. I\u2019m thinking, \u201cIf you sat with most moms today and said, \u2018What are your thoughts on sexuality?\u2019 they would say, \u2018Well, I\u2019m exhausted\u2019\u2014because she is a busy mom\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014life is busy. So, she\u2019s tired. So, at the end of the day, she really just wants sleep more than anything else. And sex, as a priority in her marriage, is pretty far down the line. Is that an unbiblical place where she finds herself?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Well, it potentially is. I mean, what one of the things we teach, at Harvest USA, is that the biblical sexual ethic is, \u201cLove your spouse selflessly.\u201d When both husband and wife are seeking to live that out, in a Christ-honoring way, that\u2019s going to radically influence how they are growing in their sexual relationship. We have many couples that come to us, that have a very absent sexual relationship; and that\u2019s a part of helping them to even grow in their communication with each other: \u201cHow are they going to begin to rebuild trust and move toward each other in that way?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I really agree with that. I think\u2014you just think about where women are growing up today in this culture. How in the world would you go all the way through adolescence into adulthood\u2014whether you go through a college, or through service, or through the workplace\u2014and come out unscathed? I mean, women have, for centuries, been the object of men\u2019s lusts; and so, as a result, they are damaged. They are abused. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we\u2019re talking about here is, ultimately, women going back to the Book\u2014to the Bible\u2014and to a relationship with their Heavenly Father\u2014and really reprogramming their minds to be able to think rightly about who they are as a women\u2014how God made them and that, really, sex between a married man and his wife is good, within that covenant-keeping relationship. It was designed by God for all those purposes we mentioned earlier. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, and when you turn to a passage like First Corinthians 7, you see some pretty clear instruction on the sexual relationship between a husband and wife\u2014and the fact that you\u2019re not to deprive one another, and you are to keep it in the bounds of the marriage, and that there ought to be a healthy, flourishing sexuality between a husband and a wife. If that\u2019s not there, it\u2019s a symptom that there is something deeper that is wrong in their relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes. Believers just need to know, \u201cGod\u2019s not down on sex.\u201d God dedicated a whole book of the Bible that is not just about some mystical imagery\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014Song of Solomon is about the love of a husband for his wife, in a very graphic way. I think there is a reason why that book is in the Bible. I think He wants us to know\u2014despite what we hear from the world\u2014that God is not down on sex. He is very much for it. He created it; and He wants us, even as broken people, to be in the process of obtaining healing, and wholeness, and enjoying what He designed within marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, that comes through, loud and clear, in the book that Ellen has written, which is called <em>Sexual Sanity for Women<\/em>. I\u2019d encourage our listeners\u2014this is a great book for women to go through together, in this culture, because I think we need to have a healthy, biblical understanding of human sexuality. There\u2019s a companion book called <em>Sexual Sanity for Men<\/em>. You can go to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com for information on either of these books. You can order from us online. Again, FamilyLifeToday.com is our website; or call, toll-free, 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tQuickly, we want to say a, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who make the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible. We could not do what we do without you guys. I especially want to thank our Legacy Partners, who provide monthly support for this program. We appreciate your partnership with us around the ministry of FamilyLife to make every home a godly home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d to those of you who pitch in, from time to time. Maybe, you hear something on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and you think, \u201cI want to make a donation to help support that ministry.\u201d Maybe, God has used this ministry, in some significant way, in your life over the last several weeks or months and you just want to say, \u201cThank you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, you can make an online donation at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014just click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d, to make your online donation; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, and you can make a donation over the phone. <br><br>This week, when you make a donation, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a CD that has a conversation we had with Kim and Krickitt Carpenter. They are the couple whose love story was made into a movie called <em>The Vow<\/em>. Their story is more compelling than the movie was. So, if you\u2019d like to get the CD, just ask for it when you make a donation online or when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation. And again, we appreciate you joining with us in this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow. Ellen Dycas will be here, and we\u2019ll continue our conversation about how to maintain a heart of sexual purity and some sexual sanity in this culture. Hope you can join us back tomorrow for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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sin isn\u2019t just a vice for men. Women struggle just as much, but in different ways.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-25.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When the book, <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em>, was first released, there were a lot of Christian women who saw nothing wrong with a little escapist entertainment. \u201cAfter all,\u201d they said, \u201cif I\u2019m not having an affair and I\u2019m not tempted to lust after someone, why not read a spicy novel?\u201d Here\u2019s a response from author, Ellen Dycas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> What you\u2019ve just described is what we hear all the time. It shows how the body of Christ is so in need of discipleship about biblical sexuality. A lot of Christian women have not been discipled in even what a biblical view of sexuality is. So, they are going to see the <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em> as kind of an amazing romance story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, July 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. In a culture that has gone crazy, sexually, we\u2019re going to talk today about what it looks like to take every thought captive and to make no provision for the flesh. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, we\u2019re talking this week about the issue of sexual brokenness. Most often, when I think of how sexual sin is occurring in our culture, I think of guys. I think that guys tend to be more sexually sinful than women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think we\u2019re about to find out from our guest today that really both male and female struggle over sexual brokenness. Ellen Dycas joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Ellen, welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> It\u2019s really great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Ellen serves in the women\u2019s ministry at Harvest USA, which is a ministry that works with people who are struggling with sexual brokenness\u2014helps the Church\u2014partnering with a church to really equip them to do a better job and creating a safe and secure place for people to get real and deal with their stuff. Ellen is a mentor. She\u2019s a blogger, and she is an author; and she is the editor of <em>Sexual Sanity for Women<\/em>. <br><br>Let\u2019s talk about Bob\u2019s statement. Do women struggle, equally, around this issue of sexual brokenness as men do? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And let me just say, as we start here, I recognize, theologically, that\u2019s true. It\u2019s just as I look in the culture, I think, experientially, it doesn\u2019t seem as obvious to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Right. Women may be struggling in different ways\u2014maybe manifesting sexual sin in little bits of different ways\u2014but they are struggling in amazing proportions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Introduce us to a woman who you\u2019ve met in the past year or so who was struggling out of this brokenness so we kind of get a picture of what we\u2019re talking about here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Okay. I\u2019ll mention two because they represent two different types of women or different age ranges. One was a young 20-something sister in Christ\u2014just a dear woman\u2014actually, studying to prepare for ministry herself. She heard me speak at her campus, and she was one of the women that came up and wanted to have a follow-up conversation. As it turns out, she has had long-time struggles with sexual self-gratification, as well as struggles with pornography. She had never had an opportunity to talk to anybody about those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother woman came; and she, actually, had similar sorts of struggles. She was a good bit older. When she was telling me about her struggles with, basically, promiscuity and just craving the sexual attentions of men, she said, \u201cEllen, I guess, I\u2019m just like a man.\u201d I said, \u201cNo, sister, you\u2019re just like a woman, who is broken in this area of your life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is there a common thread between those two women? I mean\u2014when you peel back the sexual brokenness in women, are there some commonalities that you find at the core? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> I do. I mean, I think one of the core threads that I see with every single woman\u2014and I relate this to my own life\u2014is that there has been deep, emotional pain\u2014broken-heartedness\u2014that they have never learned how to articulate, much less, how to bring that into their Christian experience\u2014like how does Christ reach into the depths of who they are? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, whether if it\u2019s a woman struggling\u2014homosexually, heterosexually, sex with self, sex through pornography-viewing\u2014that, I could say, is 99 percent of the women who come to us are struggling to know how to really be honest and come to Christ in light of their own emotional pain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There\u2019s a stereotype\u2014and I\u2019m one of the people who has stood up in front of groups and said this\u2014men tend to be visual; women tend not to be visual when it comes to sexual stimulation. So, have I been misstating this, or\u2014just unpack this whole issue of women and pornography for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Rather than saying, \u201c\u2026misstating it,\u201d I think it can be misleading because look at the billion-dollar romance novel industry\u2014which is generally what women are associated with. More and more, there is this genre of literature called erotica literature, which is basically pornography through words. I think of what a former colleague said, in light of this misnomer \u201cthat men are always more visual \/ women are more emotional.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor the romance novel industry to flourish the way it has, among women, they need to be able to take those words and <em>visualize<\/em> them in their own minds, creating a fantasy world. So, I think the sexual response may be different between men and women; but I think women are just as visual\u2014and in fact, studies show that women are more prone to actually take what they\u2019ve seen in pornography and go act upon it in a real-life scenario. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the last thing I will say about this is that pornographers\u2014they\u2019re also very smart at what they do. They know how to target a certain audience, whether it\u2019s children or women. So, there have been increasing numbers of pornographic material available that have a more relational theme that actually bring in an aspect of romance to it. Women are being targeted, and they are being sucked into that as much as men are to some of the other genres. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, what percentage would you say of women today are struggling with pornography? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> One statistic, that\u2019s kind of been around for a while, would say that one out of three visitors to a sexual website is a woman. Sixty percent of girls\u201418 and under\u2014have viewed internet pornography themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Sixty percent? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Sixty percent. And I can only assume that, as technology advances, those statistics are going to continue to grow and grow. <br><br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, you\u2019re saying that, because of technology today and the accessibility of pornography\u2014how easy it is to access it\u2014that this is a growing phenomenon with women today? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> I would say, \u201cYes, it is growing.\u201d I mean, I can\u2019t speak to how much it has grown over the past, say, 15 or 20 years; but that it is now on the rise is absolutely true as more and more teen girls and more and more 20-something girls are even coming out into the open with their parents or with mentors and saying, \u201cI\u2019ve got a problem here.\u201d As we all know, with the rise of technology, pornography has become something that is free of charge and completely anonymous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I mean, I, myself, was one of those girls\u2014as a 12-year-old, babysitting in my neighborhood\u2014found some pornographic magazines in the towel closet. I had never seen porn. I don\u2019t think\u2014as best I know, I don\u2019t think it was anywhere in my own home; but I found those magazines, and you can bet where I went every time I went to babysit that house. Then, somehow, after several months, they were just gone. I think that was the Lord rescuing me. This was before the internet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, with the accessibility of it, you can do it in the privacy of your own home or your car, with your phone. Unfortunately, it is going to continue to be something that is probably going to grow\u2014in people accessing it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s not a matter of \u201cif\u201d; it\u2019s really a matter of \u201cwhen\u201d. Even your daughter is going to see something\u2014some kind of image\u2014that, as you said, is unholy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I had a friend of mine come to me a little more than a year ago. He said, \u201cAre you and Dennis going to talk on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> about these books that are out this summer?\u201d I said, \u201cWhat books?\u201d He said, \u201cWomen in our church\u201d\u2014he said, \u201cThe women in the church are reading\u201d\u2014and I didn\u2019t know what he was talking about. Well, I found out what he was talking about, and you know what I\u2019m talking about; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> I think I do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em> books\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that flooded the market and seemed to be this amazing phenomenon. There were not a whole lot of guys reading those books; was it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> It\u2019s been primarily women, as I understand it. In fact, this genre of, what I would call, pornography\u2014it\u2019s pornography in print\u2014has been labeled erotica. It\u2019s actually being referred to, in some places, as mommy-porn because it can be easily accessed on e-Readers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat is most sobering\u2014and you\u2019ve already kind of mentioned this, Bob\u2014is that many Christian women have been reading these books. It\u2019s a trilogy that\u2019s going to be made into a movie; and they\u2019ve been finding no problem with it, in light of their Christian faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, a woman that says: \u201cYes, I read it. It\u2019s fantasy. It\u2019s escapism. It\u2019s\u2014I mean, it didn\u2019t do anything to me, personally. I still love Jesus, and I still love my husband; and I don\u2019t want to go have an affair. So, what\u2019s the big deal with it?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> What you\u2019ve just described is what we hear all the time. It shows how the body of Christ is so in need of discipleship about biblical sexuality. I\u2019ll just\u2014I\u2019ll tell a story of, again, a blog post I read. Dannah Gresh, who has a ministry in Pennsylvania, wrote a blog post on why, \u201cI\u2019m Not Reading <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em>\u201d. It took me a couple of hours to do a pretty thorough skim of all the posts and responses\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> All the comments she got, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> \u2014all the comments. But one of the most disheartening responses was from a woman, who is married to a pastor. The <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em> kind of highlight a type of sexual relating that is absolutely against God\u2019s design for sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s abusive. Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> It\u2019s abusive. It\u2019s utilizing pain, and violence, and things like that. This woman, in a very angry tone, was defending that she and her husband actually participated in this kind of sexual relating and were, in fact, honoring their marriage bed because they both had consented to it\u2014with nothing, at all, of looking at how the sexual relationship in marriage is meant to image Christ and His relationship to His people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, a lot of Christian women have not been discipled in even what a biblical view of what sexuality is. So, they are going to see this\u2014the <em>Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em>\u2014as kind of an amazing romance story of\u2014\u201cAn amazing love story\u201d is how it\u2019s being publicized. I think that so many Christian women have been sucked into that\u2014just shows the need for discipleship about, \u201cWhat is God\u2019s design?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And I\u2019m thinking of these wives who have read this\u2014who are moms of daughters\u2014and it can\u2019t do anything but hurt their relationship with their daughters, in terms of giving their daughters a biblical view of human sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat would you say to a mom, who is raising a daughter today in this sexually- pervasive culture of pornography and everything\u2014what would you say to her about equipping her to do a good job of warning your daughter and yet, at the same time, creating a safe relationship for her daughter to share what she\u2019s experiencing? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> The first place I would go would be just to talk with that mom. If she is open to this, before I\u2019m going to want to give her parenting discipleship, I\u2019m going to want to find out, \u201cWhere is she at, herself?\u201d So, my first point with that mom is going to be just sister to sister\u2014me to her\u2014how does she need help\u2014herself\u2014in understanding biblical sexuality and maybe even just parenting principles? Then, stemming down from that, I\u2019m going to want to help her begin to grow\u2014and how does she communicate with her daughter, in age-appropriate ways, and not just the dos and don\u2019ts. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo often, that is something that churches have tried to promote in their purity conferences, which is good\u2014of just, \u201cWait until marriage,\u201d\u2014but what they are completely neglecting is the purposes behind that\u2014the reasons behind that, the\u2014what Paul talks about in Romans 13, 14, \u201cPut on the Lord Jesus Christ <em>and<\/em> make no provision for the flesh in regards to its lusts.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the way I would help a mom with her daughter is going to be: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow are you, first, going to disciple your daughter about being a godly young woman in Christ? And how does that relate to her, as a growing sexual being? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then, what are going to be those protections that are going to be put in place to make no provision\u2014helping in things like relationships, technology, entertainment?\u2014all those areas where, I believe, parents have been given that mantle of responsibility to hinder temptation for their children\u2014and then, to disciple their children how to make those wise choices themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And one thing you hinted at there\u2014that I just like to comment on, from our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway\u2014is, I think, we need to give our daughters and our sons, as far as that goes, a biblical view of what the purpose is\u2014what God\u2019s purpose is for sex in the first place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe talk about it at the conference, Bob, you know? We talk about how it\u2019s a part of reflecting the image of God in our sexuality. It is given to us for pleasure, for comfort, for propagation of the species\u2014of men and women, coming together, to create another generation of godly men and women who form marriages and families, at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we give young people a biblical view of what sex is all about\u2014to compare with the culture\u2014that\u2019s going to help them spot the frauds\u2014those things that are counterfeit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ellen, you mentioned Dannah Gresh. I remember when she was a guest on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We talked about one of the reasons parents don\u2019t want to have this kind of engagement with their sons or their daughters\u2014and in fact, I think we\u2019ve got a clip from the interview we did with Dannah, where she talked about how this was a challenge for her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Audio clip]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dannah:<\/strong> I was listening to Dr. James Dobson. He was interviewing a woman\u2014a mother, I believe\u2014on the subject of raising sexually-pure children. He asked her, \u201cWhat\u2019s the number one question on a teen girl\u2019s mind when a mother is talking to her about the subject of sexual purity?\u201d Without hesitation, that woman said, \u201cThe number one question on a young woman\u2019s mind is, \u2018Mom, did you wait?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had to pull to the side of the road and just allow ten years of incredible grief to engulf me for, really, the first time because, at the age of 15, I was a Christian young woman, at a Christian high school, serving the Lord through Child Evangelism Fellowship\u2014<em>loved<\/em> the Lord with all my heart\u2014really truly did; but I was in a Christian dating relationship. I thought I was immune to sexual temptation, but I found out that I wasn\u2019t; and it grieved my heart deeply. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe day I was driving down the road, with my brand-new baby girl in the back seat, and I heard that question, \u201cMom, did you wait,\u201d the dam broke. My heart broke. I had to sit there, and hold her, and cry, and realize that I needed to bravely go through a healing process so that I could mentor her effectively so that she would not know the pain that I knew.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Would it have helped you if your mom, or your dad, or if a Christian peer had come to you and said: \u201cDannah, I\u2019d like for you to be more specific. How far are you going to go, prior to marriage?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dannah:<\/strong> Absolutely. It\u2019s vital! You have <em>got<\/em> to do that with your kids. I truly believe if somebody had sat down and said, \u201cYou know, let\u2019s talk about this.\u201d I would have drawn my line much sooner. I would have maybe had some of the self-control to stop, at that minute\u2014just because it had been engrained into my mind. We\u2019ve got to do this with our kids. The other thing I think is really important is that the standard is not virginity. I talk to the girls about: \u201cPurity is not this virgin line. That\u2019s not purity.\u201d God\u2019s standard is, \u201cLet there not be a <em>hint<\/em> of sexual immorality in your life.\u201d That line is drawn, <em>way<\/em> before the virgin line. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe thing that surprises parents, when I talk to them, is that the place they want most to learn about sexual purity is from their parents\u2014not a book, not high school, not the youth pastor\u2014their parents. Studies confirm this. One study of mothers and daughters\u2014the mothers and daughters were asked the same question: \u201cAre you communicating <em>effectively<\/em> about the subject of sexuality?\u201d The mothers said, \u201cOh, yes, we\u2019ve talked about it\u201d\u2014like 89 percent of the mothers said, \u201cDoing great job.\u201d Only about 30 percent of the daughters agreed. They said: \u201cWe\u2019re not doing it! This isn\u2019t how we want it to be.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the interviewer said, \u201cWell, what would make it better?\u201d They said: \u201cShe needs to bring it up. My mother needs to bring this subject up more often.\u201d They want to talk to their moms about it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, listening to Dannah share her own experience in this, I think the thing that moms and dads have to keep in mind is that having a conversation with your teen about this subject is different than delivering a lecture to your son or daughter on this subject. We have got to learn, as parents: \u201cHow do we engage with our kids? How do we ask questions? How do we hear things that we may be uncomfortable hearing without flinching and freaking out, as parents?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEllen, you talked about having a conversation with a mom, first, about her own view of sexuality. I\u2019m thinking, \u201cIf you sat with most moms today and said, \u2018What are your thoughts on sexuality?\u2019 they would say, \u2018Well, I\u2019m exhausted\u2019\u2014because she is a busy mom\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014life is busy. So, she\u2019s tired. So, at the end of the day, she really just wants sleep more than anything else. And sex, as a priority in her marriage, is pretty far down the line. Is that an unbiblical place where she finds herself?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ellen:<\/strong> Well, it potentially is. I mean, what one of the things we teach, at Harvest USA, is that the biblical sexual ethic is, \u201cLove your spouse selflessly.\u201d When both husband and wife are seeking to live that out, in a Christ-honoring way, that\u2019s going to radically influence how they are growing in their sexual relationship. We have many couples that come to us, that have a very absent sexual relationship; and that\u2019s a part of helping them to even grow in their communication with each other: \u201cHow are they going to begin to rebuild trust and move toward each other in that way?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I really agree with that. I think\u2014you just think about where women are growing up today in this culture. How in the world would you go all the way through adolescence into adulthood\u2014whether you go through a college, or through service, or through the workplace\u2014and come out unscathed? I mean, women have, for centuries, been the object of men\u2019s lusts; and so, as a result, they are damaged. They are abused. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we\u2019re talking about here is, ultimately, women going back to the Book\u2014to the Bible\u2014and to a relationship with their Heavenly Father\u2014and really reprogramming their minds to be able to think rightly about who they are as a women\u2014how God made them and that, really, sex between a married man and his wife is good, within that covenant-keeping relationship. It was designed by God for all those purposes we mentioned earlier. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, and when you turn to a passage like First Corinthians 7, you see some pretty clear instruction on the sexual relationship between a husband and wife\u2014and the fact that you\u2019re not to deprive one another, and you are to keep it in the bounds of the marriage, and that there ought to be a healthy, flourishing sexuality between a husband and a wife. If that\u2019s not there, it\u2019s a symptom that there is something deeper that is wrong in their relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes. Believers just need to know, \u201cGod\u2019s not down on sex.\u201d God dedicated a whole book of the Bible that is not just about some mystical imagery\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014Song of Solomon is about the love of a husband for his wife, in a very graphic way. I think there is a reason why that book is in the Bible. I think He wants us to know\u2014despite what we hear from the world\u2014that God is not down on sex. He is very much for it. He created it; and He wants us, even as broken people, to be in the process of obtaining healing, and wholeness, and enjoying what He designed within marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, that comes through, loud and clear, in the book that Ellen has written, which is called <em>Sexual Sanity for Women<\/em>. I\u2019d encourage our listeners\u2014this is a great book for women to go through together, in this culture, because I think we need to have a healthy, biblical understanding of human sexuality. There\u2019s a companion book called <em>Sexual Sanity for Men<\/em>. You can go to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com for information on either of these books. You can order from us online. Again, FamilyLifeToday.com is our website; or call, toll-free, 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tQuickly, we want to say a, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who make the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible. We could not do what we do without you guys. I especially want to thank our Legacy Partners, who provide monthly support for this program. We appreciate your partnership with us around the ministry of FamilyLife to make every home a godly home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d to those of you who pitch in, from time to time. Maybe, you hear something on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and you think, \u201cI want to make a donation to help support that ministry.\u201d Maybe, God has used this ministry, in some significant way, in your life over the last several weeks or months and you just want to say, \u201cThank you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, you can make an online donation at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014just click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d, to make your online donation; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, and you can make a donation over the phone. <br><br>This week, when you make a donation, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a CD that has a conversation we had with Kim and Krickitt Carpenter. They are the couple whose love story was made into a movie called <em>The Vow<\/em>. Their story is more compelling than the movie was. So, if you\u2019d like to get the CD, just ask for it when you make a donation online or when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation. And again, we appreciate you joining with us in this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow. Ellen Dycas will be here, and we\u2019ll continue our conversation about how to maintain a heart of sexual purity and some sexual sanity in this culture. Hope you can join us back tomorrow for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302785","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302785"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302785"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302785"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302785"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302785"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302785"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302785"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}