{"id":302783,"date":"2013-07-23T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2013-07-23T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/breaking-the-cycle-of-sin\/"},"modified":"2013-07-23T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2013-07-23T15:00:00","slug":"breaking-the-cycle-of-sin","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/breaking-the-cycle-of-sin\/","title":{"rendered":"Breaking the Cycle of Sin"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Christian counselor David White talks about helping men and women overcome sexual brokenness.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-23.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.12M","filesize_raw":"24242516","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2826],"tags":[5019,4271,5297],"podcast_series":[7962],"cwp_profile":[3465],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302783","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-men","tag-alcoholism","tag-sin","tag-tempatation","podcast_series-sexual-sanity-for-men","cwp_profile-david-white","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302783\/breaking-the-cycle-of-sin","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302783\/breaking-the-cycle-of-sin","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"3QJsTehe3p\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/breaking-the-cycle-of-sin\/\">Breaking the Cycle of Sin<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/breaking-the-cycle-of-sin\/embed\/#?secret=3QJsTehe3p\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Breaking the Cycle of Sin&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"3QJsTehe3p\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-23.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-23.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Long before he came to faith in Christ, David White says he was aware that his gay friends were not happy about their sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> As an unbeliever in college, I lived in Center City. I worked as a waiter. I had lots of gay friends. I also had a drinking problem. So, if they were the only ones going out to the bar, I went with them to the gay bar and just thought I was a very progressive male. These men would tell me, \u201cIf you could put a pill on this bar that would make me straight, I would take it.\u201d That just really sunk home, even as an unbeliever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, July 23<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll hear from David White today about the hope he shares with men, who are sexually-broken. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You look around at our culture today\u2014in the area of human sexuality, would you say things are a little crazy? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness! I mean, I really fear for my children, and my grandchildren, and the generation yet to be born. These are challenging days\u2014not just merely to live out your faith in Jesus Christ\u2014but also, to, I think, escape evil and not be preyed upon\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014by evil. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And what\u2019s interesting to me is to think, \u201cHere is one of God\u2019s great gifts\u2014and to look at how distorted we can turn this good gift of God\u2014and make it corrupted, and confusing, and crazy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> God created them male and female in Genesis, Chapter 1. That denotes sexuality\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and He said it was\u2014what? \u201cIt was very good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Very good; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Very good. And it has been said, \u201cWhat God created, the enemy has distorted.\u201d And I think he\u2019s doing a good job of doing that today. I think we\u2019re going to bring some perspective to our audience today to know how to make sense out of this\u2014not only for your own life\u2014but also in raising the next generation\u2014how you ought to have conversations with them. To help us do that, David White joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. David, welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> It\u2019s great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> David has written a book called <em>Sexual Sanity for Men<\/em>. It\u2019s interesting\u2014that\u2019s one of the more unusual books we\u2019ve ever had, here on the broadcast, Bob, because it\u2019s a devotional, <em>and<\/em> a small group guide, <em>as well<\/em> as kind of a mentor guide. I mean, it\u2019s jam-packed to help disciple the next generation about making sense out of this subject. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid is the Men\u2019s Ministry Coordinator for Harvest USA, which is a ministry that disciples men and women and tackles the tough issues around sexual brokenness. And that\u2019s really what this book is all about. You begin the book by talking about how all sexual brokenness really leads us to a wasteland, and you compare it to being in exile. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Explain what you mean by that, David. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes, what I was seeing is the similarity between the experiences of Christians today with the experience of ancient Israel. So, Israel was in captivity in Egypt and delivered by God\u2014brought into the Promise Land\u2014and then, they rebelled. They returned to idols\u2014brought under judgment\u2014and God sent them into exile. And that so many Christians come out of dark backgrounds. God redeems them and does a wonderful work of redemption\u2014and they enter the Promise Land, so to speak\u2014only to eventually, slink back to their idols. <br><br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Give me an illustration of a guy, you\u2019ve worked with, who has done just that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Sure. There was a man, who came to faith\u2014out of a homosexual background. After living for God for many years, and getting married, and having a family\u2014ended up going back into it\u2014and pursuing those desires again and living them out. And now, has since, come back to a place of repentance, and been restored, and is involved in Christian ministry. God has done a wonderful work of restoration there\u2014kind of like a Luke 15 prodigal son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you know\u2014there are folks who will hear that story, and they will say: \u201cOkay, here\u2019s a guy, who\u2019s gay\u2014who got talked out of being gay for a while. After a couple of years, with a wife and some kids, he went back to what he really was\u2014as a gay man. And now, you\u2019ve just talked him out of it again.\u201d <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> How do you respond to that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Well, part of the problem\u2014that we have, culturally, going on, right now, Bob\u2014is that we do see gay as an identity\u2014that for any Christian, when we talk about sexual brokenness, we\u2019re talking about a humanity-wide problem\u2014that every single person has a sexuality that\u2019s been affected by the Fall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the ways I put it is\u2014that my marriage\u2014my wedding ring, rather, is as foreign to me, naturally, as someone with same-sex attraction pursuing a member of the opposite gender. I needed a supernatural work of God to transform my sexuality, and that\u2019s what all of us need. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You just said something that I know, Bob, really believes in because I listened to a message he gave at his church where the single message was what you just said. And Bob you would say it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re all broken. We\u2019re all sexually-broken creatures because what happened in Genesis 3 happened to all of us. So, our sexuality\u2014whatever the brokenness looks like and whatever degree it goes to\u2014nobody is walking around sexually-whole, sexually- pure, sexually- unbroken; are we? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No, and I liked what you did in your message because, by the end of the message, anybody who was holding a stone\u2014to throw at a homosexual, or an adulterer, or to someone who is being promiscuous\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Somebody who is looking at pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014exactly. By the time he finished the message, it was like: \u201cYou know what? You can\u2019t hold this stone and stone others because, if this isn\u2019t your area of brokenness, then, you\u2019ve got plenty that are.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that\u2019s what God is working in all of our lives; isn\u2019t it? He\u2019s redeeming us out of our brokenness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. I spoke on that passage in John 8 once\u2014the woman caught in adultery\u2014where Jesus said, \u201cIf anyone who is without sin can throw the first stone,\u201d and the gay community would say: \u201cOkay, you\u2019re not without sin. So, just shut up and go home.\u201d That isn\u2019t the\u2014the point of the story <em>isn\u2019t<\/em>: \u201cEverybody sins. So, don\u2019t worry about it.\u201d The point of the story is, \u201cEverybody needs to repent!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you\u2019re right. People love that story because of the message of, \u201cPut down the stone,\u201d and then, they love the message that says, \u201cNeither do I condemn you;\u201d but what often they don\u2019t get to is the last thing Jesus says. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And again, Bob, explain what He said to the woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The woman, caught in adultery, comes to Jesus\u2014she\u2019s dragged to Jesus. She\u2019s not coming, voluntarily. The Pharisees are saying: \u201cShe was caught. The Law says stone her. So, we\u2019re here. What do you say, Rabbi?\u201d And Jesus draws in the dirt. Finally, He says, \u201cLet him who is without sin cast the first stone.\u201d Everybody drops his stone, from the oldest to the youngest\u2014the Bible says\u2014to indicate that those who had lived longer knew they had more culpability. <br><br>Finally, Jesus says to her, \u201cWhere are those who would condemn you? Are none left?\u201d And she says, \u201cNobody but you.\u201d And it\u2019s almost like, in saying that, she recognizes there\u2019s only one here who could condemn me. And He says, \u201cNeither do I condemn you.\u201d And that\u2019s where a lot of people like to leave this story; but they forget He said, \u201cGo and sin no more.\u201d There\u2019s a call to repentance\u2014and it\u2019s a call to volition. Jesus is presuming that her decision to be promiscuous is something that\u2019s within her control. He\u2019s not presuming that she just is stuck\u2014\u201cThat\u2019s just how God made you. You\u2019re just one of those women\u2014who likes to go out and have sex.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>David:<\/strong> Right. And one of the things I love about that, too, is it\u2019s really an invitation. It\u2019s: \u201cGo leave your life of sin. Be free!\u201d You know, freedom isn\u2019t that you can do whatever you want. Freedom is, \u201cLive as you were created to be.\u201d So, it\u2019s an invitation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And the thing I like about the story\u2014to apply it to today\u2014is, I think, most heterosexuals\u2014now, I\u2019m going to make a bold statement; but it may be just more of a statement of my own life\u2014confessing my own, hopefully, past bigotry and judgmentalism\u2014but I think most heterosexuals look down\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014on the sin of homosexuality as though, \u201cBecause I\u2019m heterosexual, I\u2019m in a better position to be able to make a comment about your sin.\u201d But the reality is\u2014I got my sin\u2014I\u2019ve got my issues. What I need to do is love all people and love them, as you just said, and invite them out of the sin because the Bible does teach that the practice of homosexuality\u2014the act of homosexuality\u2014is wrong. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the reality is: \u201cYes, there is a standard\u2014and yes, it\u2019s wrong\u2014but yes\u2014we, who are followers of Jesus Christ, must love. We must exhibit the love of Jesus Christ for all people who are broken.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> David, you make an observation, in your book, that I thought that was really very interesting. When I was growing up, in the 60\u2019s, the model\u2014the role model\u2014for the new sexual liberation was Hugh Hefner, the founder and President of <em>Playboy<\/em>. This was a picture of what manliness was: The man, who is sexually permissive\u2014the man who is having multiple relationships with multiple women\u2014James Bond, take your pick\u2014that defined manhood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>You say, in the book, that sexual sin, actually, has the opposite effect. It begins to corrode and rob us of authentic masculinity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Absolutely, yes. Sexual sin emasculates us. What happens is\u2014two things, I would say. Number one, we become more bestial. You know, if you looked at the created world, animals go after whoever looks attractive. Nothing reigns in their desires. I mean\u2014sin\u2014broadly\u2014does that; right? It makes us bestial. I would say sexual sin is such a graphic picture of that because sexuality is a good gift\u2014as you were saying at the beginning. It is a wonderful gift from God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of what makes it glorious is that we are made in His image\u2014so that the sexual union is supposed to be a deep, rich, spiritual, emotional connection with another human being. So, on one level, yes, it makes us more bestial. Then, it keeps us from becoming who we were called to be as men\u2014as those who care for and protect those who are weaker. Instead of caring for and protecting others, we become exploiters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You work in a church, or near a church, Tenth Presbyterian, in Philadelphia. You describe the street where your church is located\u2014and you\u2019re in the heart of the issue of brokenness in that city. Describe what you shared, a bit earlier with Bob and me, about that spot on the street. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And it\u2019s really about how Harvest USA got started more than 30 years ago; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> It is. Back in 1983, we started out of Tenth Presbyterian Church, in Center City, Philadelphia. That\u2019s located at 17<sup>th<\/sup> and Spruce Streets. Right in front of the church is a little half wall, where male prostitutes would come and sit and wait for men to pick them up. The pastor, at the time, was Dr. James Boyce, who realized, \u201cThis is a lost people group that\u2019s, literally, on the doorstep of my church.\u201d So, we started as an outreach Bible Study, in one of the pastor\u2019s homes, back 30 years ago. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Started as an outreach to offer redemption, and hope, and help to those people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You made a statement, also, earlier, about how people, who are caught up in that lifestyle, really ultimately, want out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s amazing how God prepares you for the ministry He\u2019s going to call you to do. As an unbeliever, in college, I lived in Center City. I worked as a waiter. I had lots of gay friends. I also had a drinking problem. So, if they were the only ones going out to the bar, I went with them to the gay bar and just thought I was a very progressive male. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese men would tell me, \u201cIf you could put a pill on this bar that would make me straight, I would take it.\u201d That just really sunk home, even as an unbeliever, that all the messages I was hearing from the culture were lies\u2014that people that are in the gay life aren\u2019t happy. There\u2019s no joy in the gay life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No matter how respectable you make it. There\u2019s a sense\u2014in the person, in their soul\u2014that they know God made them to be something different than what they\u2019ve become. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Right. I would bring that back to, also, what you were saying earlier, Dennis\u2014that all of us have this brokenness inside of us\u2014that there is something that is not right that needs to be fixed. So, that would be true of that community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if that\u2019s the case\u2014if all these men want out\u2014and I\u2019m\u2014by the way, I\u2019m sure we\u2019ve got some folks who are listening, right now, who heard you say that and say: \u201cNot me. I\u2019m fine with who I am. You\u2019re over-generalizing, and you\u2019re over-characterizing. I\u2019ll introduce you to the guys who are just happy with their lives.\u201d So, what do you say to that guy, who says: \u201cNo, we\u2019re fine with who we are. If you guys will just come along and get with it, then, everything will be better\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Well, there are a couple of things I would say. Number one, Proverbs teaches that, even in laughter, the heart may be aching. So, there can be a lot of posturing going on and pretending. The other reason why I know that this is true is because this is God\u2019s world. It works His way. He called us how to live. Anything we place on the throne, instead of Him, is going to be empty and leave us desolate. It\u2019s going to leave us in that wasteland experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It was Pascal, I think, who said, \u201cThere is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of every man that can only be met by the person of Jesus Christ.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Augustine said, \u201cEvery man\u2019s heart is restless until we find our rest in Him.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And we\u2019re not really, again, throwing stones at those who are struggling around homosexual sin. We\u2019re just saying, \u201cYou know, regardless of what you are struggling with\u2014what you long for\u201d\u2014because what you described was who I was, as a college sophomore\u2014between my sophomore and junior year, my soul was restless. I wanted to find the One who would satisfy me. Homosexuality was not what I was struggling with, but my satisfaction came from surrendering to the person of Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, here\u2019s my question: \u201cWhy is it sexual sin seems to get its talons locked into the soul of a human being in a way that other sins aren\u2019t as penetrating?\u201d I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s not as severe. I\u2019m just saying some things you can get free from easier than sexual sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Sure. We were saying, earlier, that God is a creator; right? The enemy is not a creator\u2014he\u2019s a corrupter. So, the best he can do is take God\u2019s good gifts\u2014and taint, and twist them, and break them. And sexuality\u2014being one of God\u2019s wonderful gifts\u2014he\u2019s had a hey-day with in people\u2019s lives. Because it\u2019s such a wonderful gift, they think: \u201cAha! Maybe, this is it. Maybe, this will give life to me.\u201d In fact, that\u2019s what Paul says in Ephesians 4. He describes people, who turn away from God and give themselves over to sensuality. He says two things happen\u2014this increasing depravity and a continual lust for more. It\u2019ll get worse and worse, and you\u2019ll <em>never<\/em> be satisfied. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother point I would make is\u2014First Corinthians 6 describes other sins being outside of ourselves\u2014but sexual sin being against yourself. There is a sense in which the Creator is handing you a beautiful gift. God is saying, \u201cI have a wonderful gift for you, and you\u2019re corrupting it.\u201d It\u2019s like a kid\u2014who breaks into his parents\u2019 closet, the week before Christmas, to look at what\u2019s there\u2014and ends up ruining the blessing of Christmas day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And this is why the role of a parent, with our children, is so important\u2014to protect our children from evil. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I quote Romans 16 often, here, on the broadcast. Paul said, \u201cBut I want you to be wise in what is good\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand innocent of what is evil.\u201d And what happens to a young person\u2019s soul, when they experience sex outside of how God designed it to be experienced, can really create that wasteland you talk about in your book\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and we can become enslaved. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. It\u2019s tragic. I think one of the hardest aspects of my job, Dennis, is seeing parents of younger and younger children calling me. I was counseling with one young man, who was looking at horrible things on his iPod<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. What the Lord put on my heart was to remind him of an innocence he once felt before he saw these things and that the promise of the Gospel is that we are cleansed\u2014that we are cleansed and justified. That\u2019s what God wants to do for him\u2014to restore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> David, you don\u2019t know this; but Bob and I have been doing radio for 20 years together. We have sat across the table, as we are from you, having these conversations with a number of men\u2014who have come and talked about how they were exposed to pornography when they were 14, 15, 16\u2014seeing a magazine in their dad\u2019s pick-up truck. It just spins them off into a whole lifestyle that\u2014you know?\u2014it\u2019s ten years later before they are able to break free of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I\u2019m with you today\u2014I am really concerned about where our culture is taking these images\u2014at younger and younger ages\u2014and how parents can do a good job protecting their kids while they\u2019re under their own roof, when they are in their own car, when they take them to the school. You know, maybe they are going to a private school, where they are trying to kind of hedge their bets and maybe create a more conservative approach; but you can\u2019t control all your kids\u2019 friends, and all of the communication devices that they\u2019ve got\u2014to be able to, at one point\u2014show an 8-, 9-, 10-year-old boy or girl something that is going to distort their view of their own sexuality, their view of themselves, and, ultimately, their view of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the good thing I like about what your book does is\u2014it really lays out a provocative\u2014yet, very healthy process, biblically\u2014for how a man, who has struggled with his own sexual brokenness, can begin a process to work through it with God and themselves, or with a mentor, or a small group of guys. This can be powerful in breaking the bonds of slavery and getting a guy out of exile. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And I\u2019m just curious\u2014as you think about the book\u2014if a guy is listening, and he hears about it, and thinks, \u201cThat\u2019s where I want to get to,\u201d\u2014can he buy this book, read this book, and get where he needs to be on his own; or is he going to need somebody to go through this with him\u2014is he going to need community in all of this? Just respond to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> If a man does not have community in his life, I would still say, \u201cGet the book, and get started;\u201d but he\u2019s not going to get very far in the book before realizing: \u201cI\u2019m doing this the wrong way. I can\u2019t do this alone.\u201d God did not call a bunch of isolated individuals. He called a church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, men who\u2014I work with men who say: \u201cI\u2019ve tried everything, Dave. I\u2019ve fasted! I\u2019ve prayed! I\u2019ve memorized Scripture, and nothing has worked.\u201d And I\u2019ll say, \u201cWell, who have you told about this?\u201d They\u2019ll say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m sitting here talking to you, right now\u201d\u2014you know, 20 years later. I\u2019ll say, \u201cNo, you\u2019ve been trying to do it the wrong way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to expose the unfruitful works of darkness and bring them out into the light before they are going to get dealt with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And bring them out in the midst of community\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014where people are safe, who are still going to love after you\u2019ve confessed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s going to take some courage for a guy to get together with his friends and say, \u201cHey, why don\u2019t we go through this new book?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, listen to this: Psalm 32, verses 3-5\u2014I believe this is David. He said, \u201cFor when I kept silent, my bones wasted away\u201d\u2014he\u2019s talking about his sin\u2014\u201cthrough my groaning all day long. For day and night, Your hand was heavy upon me. My strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. I acknowledged my sin to You\u201d\u2014speaking to God\u2014\u201cand I did not cover my iniquity, and I said, \u2018I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,\u2019 and You forgave the iniquity of my sin.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the hope of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And He came to take that which is broken and make it a new creation\u2014if you\u2019ll take Jesus Christ at His Word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And that\u2019s where David points us, in the book that he has written, called <em>Sexual Sanity for Men: Re-Creating Your Mind in a Crazy Culture<\/em>. And it is a crazy culture. And this is not just a book for guys who are ensnared in some kind of bondage around sexual sin. This is a book for all of us, as men, who want to live pure-hearted, as it relates to our sexuality before God. We\u2019ve got copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the book, <em>Sexual Sanity for Men<\/em>. Our website, again, is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329. Ask about the book, <em>Sexual Sanity for Men<\/em>, when you call 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to make sure we say a quick word of thanks to those of you who partner with us in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Some of you are Legacy Partners, and we hear from you each month as you provide the financial support we need to sustain this program. And we also appreciate those of you who get in touch with us, from time to time, and make a contribution. We could not do what we do without all of you pitching in and participating, and we are so grateful! I want to make sure you understand that we believe that your primary giving should be with your local church, and I trust that you are doing that; but as you are able to partner with us, we\u2019re grateful for that, as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd this week, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you for your support,\u201d by sending you a conversation we had with Kim and Krickitt Carpenter. Their love story became a Hollywood movie called <em>The Vow<\/em>; but honestly, the real story is even more powerful than the movie. You\u2019ll hear them share details of the car wreck they were in, Krickitt\u2019s traumatic brain injury that lead to a period of amnesia\u2014she didn\u2019t even know she was married when she came to\u2014and how God has rebuilt their relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll send you the CD when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com this week and make a donation\u2014just click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d, to make your donation online. Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make your donation over the phone. Ask for the CD about <em>The Vow<\/em>, and we\u2019re happy to send it to you. And we are grateful to all of you who help support this ministry. Thanks for your financial support; and thanks for your prayers, as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you\u2019ll join us back again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk more with David White about the issue of sexual purity for men. Coming up later on this week, Ellen Dycas joins us to talk about the same subject for women. So, I hope you can join us all week long.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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counselor David White talks about helping men and women overcome sexual brokenness.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-23.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Long before he came to faith in Christ, David White says he was aware that his gay friends were not happy about their sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> As an unbeliever in college, I lived in Center City. I worked as a waiter. I had lots of gay friends. I also had a drinking problem. So, if they were the only ones going out to the bar, I went with them to the gay bar and just thought I was a very progressive male. These men would tell me, \u201cIf you could put a pill on this bar that would make me straight, I would take it.\u201d That just really sunk home, even as an unbeliever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, July 23<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll hear from David White today about the hope he shares with men, who are sexually-broken. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You look around at our culture today\u2014in the area of human sexuality, would you say things are a little crazy? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness! I mean, I really fear for my children, and my grandchildren, and the generation yet to be born. These are challenging days\u2014not just merely to live out your faith in Jesus Christ\u2014but also, to, I think, escape evil and not be preyed upon\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014by evil. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And what\u2019s interesting to me is to think, \u201cHere is one of God\u2019s great gifts\u2014and to look at how distorted we can turn this good gift of God\u2014and make it corrupted, and confusing, and crazy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> God created them male and female in Genesis, Chapter 1. That denotes sexuality\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and He said it was\u2014what? \u201cIt was very good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Very good; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Very good. And it has been said, \u201cWhat God created, the enemy has distorted.\u201d And I think he\u2019s doing a good job of doing that today. I think we\u2019re going to bring some perspective to our audience today to know how to make sense out of this\u2014not only for your own life\u2014but also in raising the next generation\u2014how you ought to have conversations with them. To help us do that, David White joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. David, welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> It\u2019s great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> David has written a book called <em>Sexual Sanity for Men<\/em>. It\u2019s interesting\u2014that\u2019s one of the more unusual books we\u2019ve ever had, here on the broadcast, Bob, because it\u2019s a devotional, <em>and<\/em> a small group guide, <em>as well<\/em> as kind of a mentor guide. I mean, it\u2019s jam-packed to help disciple the next generation about making sense out of this subject. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid is the Men\u2019s Ministry Coordinator for Harvest USA, which is a ministry that disciples men and women and tackles the tough issues around sexual brokenness. And that\u2019s really what this book is all about. You begin the book by talking about how all sexual brokenness really leads us to a wasteland, and you compare it to being in exile. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Explain what you mean by that, David. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes, what I was seeing is the similarity between the experiences of Christians today with the experience of ancient Israel. So, Israel was in captivity in Egypt and delivered by God\u2014brought into the Promise Land\u2014and then, they rebelled. They returned to idols\u2014brought under judgment\u2014and God sent them into exile. And that so many Christians come out of dark backgrounds. God redeems them and does a wonderful work of redemption\u2014and they enter the Promise Land, so to speak\u2014only to eventually, slink back to their idols. <br><br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Give me an illustration of a guy, you\u2019ve worked with, who has done just that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Sure. There was a man, who came to faith\u2014out of a homosexual background. After living for God for many years, and getting married, and having a family\u2014ended up going back into it\u2014and pursuing those desires again and living them out. And now, has since, come back to a place of repentance, and been restored, and is involved in Christian ministry. God has done a wonderful work of restoration there\u2014kind of like a Luke 15 prodigal son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you know\u2014there are folks who will hear that story, and they will say: \u201cOkay, here\u2019s a guy, who\u2019s gay\u2014who got talked out of being gay for a while. After a couple of years, with a wife and some kids, he went back to what he really was\u2014as a gay man. And now, you\u2019ve just talked him out of it again.\u201d <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> How do you respond to that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Well, part of the problem\u2014that we have, culturally, going on, right now, Bob\u2014is that we do see gay as an identity\u2014that for any Christian, when we talk about sexual brokenness, we\u2019re talking about a humanity-wide problem\u2014that every single person has a sexuality that\u2019s been affected by the Fall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the ways I put it is\u2014that my marriage\u2014my wedding ring, rather, is as foreign to me, naturally, as someone with same-sex attraction pursuing a member of the opposite gender. I needed a supernatural work of God to transform my sexuality, and that\u2019s what all of us need. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You just said something that I know, Bob, really believes in because I listened to a message he gave at his church where the single message was what you just said. And Bob you would say it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re all broken. We\u2019re all sexually-broken creatures because what happened in Genesis 3 happened to all of us. So, our sexuality\u2014whatever the brokenness looks like and whatever degree it goes to\u2014nobody is walking around sexually-whole, sexually- pure, sexually- unbroken; are we? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No, and I liked what you did in your message because, by the end of the message, anybody who was holding a stone\u2014to throw at a homosexual, or an adulterer, or to someone who is being promiscuous\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Somebody who is looking at pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014exactly. By the time he finished the message, it was like: \u201cYou know what? You can\u2019t hold this stone and stone others because, if this isn\u2019t your area of brokenness, then, you\u2019ve got plenty that are.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that\u2019s what God is working in all of our lives; isn\u2019t it? He\u2019s redeeming us out of our brokenness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. I spoke on that passage in John 8 once\u2014the woman caught in adultery\u2014where Jesus said, \u201cIf anyone who is without sin can throw the first stone,\u201d and the gay community would say: \u201cOkay, you\u2019re not without sin. So, just shut up and go home.\u201d That isn\u2019t the\u2014the point of the story <em>isn\u2019t<\/em>: \u201cEverybody sins. So, don\u2019t worry about it.\u201d The point of the story is, \u201cEverybody needs to repent!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you\u2019re right. People love that story because of the message of, \u201cPut down the stone,\u201d and then, they love the message that says, \u201cNeither do I condemn you;\u201d but what often they don\u2019t get to is the last thing Jesus says. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And again, Bob, explain what He said to the woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The woman, caught in adultery, comes to Jesus\u2014she\u2019s dragged to Jesus. She\u2019s not coming, voluntarily. The Pharisees are saying: \u201cShe was caught. The Law says stone her. So, we\u2019re here. What do you say, Rabbi?\u201d And Jesus draws in the dirt. Finally, He says, \u201cLet him who is without sin cast the first stone.\u201d Everybody drops his stone, from the oldest to the youngest\u2014the Bible says\u2014to indicate that those who had lived longer knew they had more culpability. <br><br>Finally, Jesus says to her, \u201cWhere are those who would condemn you? Are none left?\u201d And she says, \u201cNobody but you.\u201d And it\u2019s almost like, in saying that, she recognizes there\u2019s only one here who could condemn me. And He says, \u201cNeither do I condemn you.\u201d And that\u2019s where a lot of people like to leave this story; but they forget He said, \u201cGo and sin no more.\u201d There\u2019s a call to repentance\u2014and it\u2019s a call to volition. Jesus is presuming that her decision to be promiscuous is something that\u2019s within her control. He\u2019s not presuming that she just is stuck\u2014\u201cThat\u2019s just how God made you. You\u2019re just one of those women\u2014who likes to go out and have sex.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>David:<\/strong> Right. And one of the things I love about that, too, is it\u2019s really an invitation. It\u2019s: \u201cGo leave your life of sin. Be free!\u201d You know, freedom isn\u2019t that you can do whatever you want. Freedom is, \u201cLive as you were created to be.\u201d So, it\u2019s an invitation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And the thing I like about the story\u2014to apply it to today\u2014is, I think, most heterosexuals\u2014now, I\u2019m going to make a bold statement; but it may be just more of a statement of my own life\u2014confessing my own, hopefully, past bigotry and judgmentalism\u2014but I think most heterosexuals look down\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014on the sin of homosexuality as though, \u201cBecause I\u2019m heterosexual, I\u2019m in a better position to be able to make a comment about your sin.\u201d But the reality is\u2014I got my sin\u2014I\u2019ve got my issues. What I need to do is love all people and love them, as you just said, and invite them out of the sin because the Bible does teach that the practice of homosexuality\u2014the act of homosexuality\u2014is wrong. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the reality is: \u201cYes, there is a standard\u2014and yes, it\u2019s wrong\u2014but yes\u2014we, who are followers of Jesus Christ, must love. We must exhibit the love of Jesus Christ for all people who are broken.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> David, you make an observation, in your book, that I thought that was really very interesting. When I was growing up, in the 60\u2019s, the model\u2014the role model\u2014for the new sexual liberation was Hugh Hefner, the founder and President of <em>Playboy<\/em>. This was a picture of what manliness was: The man, who is sexually permissive\u2014the man who is having multiple relationships with multiple women\u2014James Bond, take your pick\u2014that defined manhood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>You say, in the book, that sexual sin, actually, has the opposite effect. It begins to corrode and rob us of authentic masculinity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Absolutely, yes. Sexual sin emasculates us. What happens is\u2014two things, I would say. Number one, we become more bestial. You know, if you looked at the created world, animals go after whoever looks attractive. Nothing reigns in their desires. I mean\u2014sin\u2014broadly\u2014does that; right? It makes us bestial. I would say sexual sin is such a graphic picture of that because sexuality is a good gift\u2014as you were saying at the beginning. It is a wonderful gift from God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of what makes it glorious is that we are made in His image\u2014so that the sexual union is supposed to be a deep, rich, spiritual, emotional connection with another human being. So, on one level, yes, it makes us more bestial. Then, it keeps us from becoming who we were called to be as men\u2014as those who care for and protect those who are weaker. Instead of caring for and protecting others, we become exploiters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You work in a church, or near a church, Tenth Presbyterian, in Philadelphia. You describe the street where your church is located\u2014and you\u2019re in the heart of the issue of brokenness in that city. Describe what you shared, a bit earlier with Bob and me, about that spot on the street. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And it\u2019s really about how Harvest USA got started more than 30 years ago; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> It is. Back in 1983, we started out of Tenth Presbyterian Church, in Center City, Philadelphia. That\u2019s located at 17<sup>th<\/sup> and Spruce Streets. Right in front of the church is a little half wall, where male prostitutes would come and sit and wait for men to pick them up. The pastor, at the time, was Dr. James Boyce, who realized, \u201cThis is a lost people group that\u2019s, literally, on the doorstep of my church.\u201d So, we started as an outreach Bible Study, in one of the pastor\u2019s homes, back 30 years ago. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Started as an outreach to offer redemption, and hope, and help to those people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You made a statement, also, earlier, about how people, who are caught up in that lifestyle, really ultimately, want out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s amazing how God prepares you for the ministry He\u2019s going to call you to do. As an unbeliever, in college, I lived in Center City. I worked as a waiter. I had lots of gay friends. I also had a drinking problem. So, if they were the only ones going out to the bar, I went with them to the gay bar and just thought I was a very progressive male. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese men would tell me, \u201cIf you could put a pill on this bar that would make me straight, I would take it.\u201d That just really sunk home, even as an unbeliever, that all the messages I was hearing from the culture were lies\u2014that people that are in the gay life aren\u2019t happy. There\u2019s no joy in the gay life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No matter how respectable you make it. There\u2019s a sense\u2014in the person, in their soul\u2014that they know God made them to be something different than what they\u2019ve become. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Right. I would bring that back to, also, what you were saying earlier, Dennis\u2014that all of us have this brokenness inside of us\u2014that there is something that is not right that needs to be fixed. So, that would be true of that community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if that\u2019s the case\u2014if all these men want out\u2014and I\u2019m\u2014by the way, I\u2019m sure we\u2019ve got some folks who are listening, right now, who heard you say that and say: \u201cNot me. I\u2019m fine with who I am. You\u2019re over-generalizing, and you\u2019re over-characterizing. I\u2019ll introduce you to the guys who are just happy with their lives.\u201d So, what do you say to that guy, who says: \u201cNo, we\u2019re fine with who we are. If you guys will just come along and get with it, then, everything will be better\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Well, there are a couple of things I would say. Number one, Proverbs teaches that, even in laughter, the heart may be aching. So, there can be a lot of posturing going on and pretending. The other reason why I know that this is true is because this is God\u2019s world. It works His way. He called us how to live. Anything we place on the throne, instead of Him, is going to be empty and leave us desolate. It\u2019s going to leave us in that wasteland experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It was Pascal, I think, who said, \u201cThere is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of every man that can only be met by the person of Jesus Christ.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Augustine said, \u201cEvery man\u2019s heart is restless until we find our rest in Him.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And we\u2019re not really, again, throwing stones at those who are struggling around homosexual sin. We\u2019re just saying, \u201cYou know, regardless of what you are struggling with\u2014what you long for\u201d\u2014because what you described was who I was, as a college sophomore\u2014between my sophomore and junior year, my soul was restless. I wanted to find the One who would satisfy me. Homosexuality was not what I was struggling with, but my satisfaction came from surrendering to the person of Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, here\u2019s my question: \u201cWhy is it sexual sin seems to get its talons locked into the soul of a human being in a way that other sins aren\u2019t as penetrating?\u201d I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s not as severe. I\u2019m just saying some things you can get free from easier than sexual sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Sure. We were saying, earlier, that God is a creator; right? The enemy is not a creator\u2014he\u2019s a corrupter. So, the best he can do is take God\u2019s good gifts\u2014and taint, and twist them, and break them. And sexuality\u2014being one of God\u2019s wonderful gifts\u2014he\u2019s had a hey-day with in people\u2019s lives. Because it\u2019s such a wonderful gift, they think: \u201cAha! Maybe, this is it. Maybe, this will give life to me.\u201d In fact, that\u2019s what Paul says in Ephesians 4. He describes people, who turn away from God and give themselves over to sensuality. He says two things happen\u2014this increasing depravity and a continual lust for more. It\u2019ll get worse and worse, and you\u2019ll <em>never<\/em> be satisfied. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother point I would make is\u2014First Corinthians 6 describes other sins being outside of ourselves\u2014but sexual sin being against yourself. There is a sense in which the Creator is handing you a beautiful gift. God is saying, \u201cI have a wonderful gift for you, and you\u2019re corrupting it.\u201d It\u2019s like a kid\u2014who breaks into his parents\u2019 closet, the week before Christmas, to look at what\u2019s there\u2014and ends up ruining the blessing of Christmas day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And this is why the role of a parent, with our children, is so important\u2014to protect our children from evil. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I quote Romans 16 often, here, on the broadcast. Paul said, \u201cBut I want you to be wise in what is good\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand innocent of what is evil.\u201d And what happens to a young person\u2019s soul, when they experience sex outside of how God designed it to be experienced, can really create that wasteland you talk about in your book\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and we can become enslaved. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. It\u2019s tragic. I think one of the hardest aspects of my job, Dennis, is seeing parents of younger and younger children calling me. I was counseling with one young man, who was looking at horrible things on his iPod<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. What the Lord put on my heart was to remind him of an innocence he once felt before he saw these things and that the promise of the Gospel is that we are cleansed\u2014that we are cleansed and justified. That\u2019s what God wants to do for him\u2014to restore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> David, you don\u2019t know this; but Bob and I have been doing radio for 20 years together. We have sat across the table, as we are from you, having these conversations with a number of men\u2014who have come and talked about how they were exposed to pornography when they were 14, 15, 16\u2014seeing a magazine in their dad\u2019s pick-up truck. It just spins them off into a whole lifestyle that\u2014you know?\u2014it\u2019s ten years later before they are able to break free of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I\u2019m with you today\u2014I am really concerned about where our culture is taking these images\u2014at younger and younger ages\u2014and how parents can do a good job protecting their kids while they\u2019re under their own roof, when they are in their own car, when they take them to the school. You know, maybe they are going to a private school, where they are trying to kind of hedge their bets and maybe create a more conservative approach; but you can\u2019t control all your kids\u2019 friends, and all of the communication devices that they\u2019ve got\u2014to be able to, at one point\u2014show an 8-, 9-, 10-year-old boy or girl something that is going to distort their view of their own sexuality, their view of themselves, and, ultimately, their view of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the good thing I like about what your book does is\u2014it really lays out a provocative\u2014yet, very healthy process, biblically\u2014for how a man, who has struggled with his own sexual brokenness, can begin a process to work through it with God and themselves, or with a mentor, or a small group of guys. This can be powerful in breaking the bonds of slavery and getting a guy out of exile. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And I\u2019m just curious\u2014as you think about the book\u2014if a guy is listening, and he hears about it, and thinks, \u201cThat\u2019s where I want to get to,\u201d\u2014can he buy this book, read this book, and get where he needs to be on his own; or is he going to need somebody to go through this with him\u2014is he going to need community in all of this? Just respond to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> If a man does not have community in his life, I would still say, \u201cGet the book, and get started;\u201d but he\u2019s not going to get very far in the book before realizing: \u201cI\u2019m doing this the wrong way. I can\u2019t do this alone.\u201d God did not call a bunch of isolated individuals. He called a church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, men who\u2014I work with men who say: \u201cI\u2019ve tried everything, Dave. I\u2019ve fasted! I\u2019ve prayed! I\u2019ve memorized Scripture, and nothing has worked.\u201d And I\u2019ll say, \u201cWell, who have you told about this?\u201d They\u2019ll say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m sitting here talking to you, right now\u201d\u2014you know, 20 years later. I\u2019ll say, \u201cNo, you\u2019ve been trying to do it the wrong way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to expose the unfruitful works of darkness and bring them out into the light before they are going to get dealt with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And bring them out in the midst of community\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014where people are safe, who are still going to love after you\u2019ve confessed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s going to take some courage for a guy to get together with his friends and say, \u201cHey, why don\u2019t we go through this new book?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, listen to this: Psalm 32, verses 3-5\u2014I believe this is David. He said, \u201cFor when I kept silent, my bones wasted away\u201d\u2014he\u2019s talking about his sin\u2014\u201cthrough my groaning all day long. For day and night, Your hand was heavy upon me. My strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. I acknowledged my sin to You\u201d\u2014speaking to God\u2014\u201cand I did not cover my iniquity, and I said, \u2018I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,\u2019 and You forgave the iniquity of my sin.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the hope of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And He came to take that which is broken and make it a new creation\u2014if you\u2019ll take Jesus Christ at His Word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And that\u2019s where David points us, in the book that he has written, called <em>Sexual Sanity for Men: Re-Creating Your Mind in a Crazy Culture<\/em>. And it is a crazy culture. And this is not just a book for guys who are ensnared in some kind of bondage around sexual sin. This is a book for all of us, as men, who want to live pure-hearted, as it relates to our sexuality before God. We\u2019ve got copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the book, <em>Sexual Sanity for Men<\/em>. Our website, again, is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329. Ask about the book, <em>Sexual Sanity for Men<\/em>, when you call 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to make sure we say a quick word of thanks to those of you who partner with us in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Some of you are Legacy Partners, and we hear from you each month as you provide the financial support we need to sustain this program. And we also appreciate those of you who get in touch with us, from time to time, and make a contribution. We could not do what we do without all of you pitching in and participating, and we are so grateful! I want to make sure you understand that we believe that your primary giving should be with your local church, and I trust that you are doing that; but as you are able to partner with us, we\u2019re grateful for that, as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd this week, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you for your support,\u201d by sending you a conversation we had with Kim and Krickitt Carpenter. Their love story became a Hollywood movie called <em>The Vow<\/em>; but honestly, the real story is even more powerful than the movie. You\u2019ll hear them share details of the car wreck they were in, Krickitt\u2019s traumatic brain injury that lead to a period of amnesia\u2014she didn\u2019t even know she was married when she came to\u2014and how God has rebuilt their relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll send you the CD when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com this week and make a donation\u2014just click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d, to make your donation online. Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make your donation over the phone. Ask for the CD about <em>The Vow<\/em>, and we\u2019re happy to send it to you. And we are grateful to all of you who help support this ministry. Thanks for your financial support; and thanks for your prayers, as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you\u2019ll join us back again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk more with David White about the issue of sexual purity for men. Coming up later on this week, Ellen Dycas joins us to talk about the same subject for women. So, I hope you can join us all week long.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302783","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302783"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302783"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302783"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302783"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302783"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302783"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302783"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}