{"id":302778,"date":"2013-07-16T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2013-07-16T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/putting-pride-to-death\/"},"modified":"2013-07-16T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2013-07-16T15:00:00","slug":"putting-pride-to-death","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/putting-pride-to-death\/","title":{"rendered":"Putting Pride to Death"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Kimberly talks about God&#8217;s move to slowly break her of her pride.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-16.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.42M","filesize_raw":"25604065","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2831],"tags":[2990,5295,5096,4251],"podcast_series":[7960],"cwp_profile":[3400],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302778","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-wives","tag-anger","tag-controlling","tag-hope","tag-pride","podcast_series-fierce-women","cwp_profile-kimberly-wagner","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302778\/putting-pride-to-death","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302778\/putting-pride-to-death","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"rW5ZC8z2HR\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/putting-pride-to-death\/\">Putting Pride to Death<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/putting-pride-to-death\/embed\/#?secret=rW5ZC8z2HR\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Putting Pride to Death&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"rW5ZC8z2HR\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-16.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-16.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Some wives are guilty of using their words to tear down a good man, but what does a wife do if her husband is irresponsible? How does she use her words in that kind of situation? Here\u2019s counsel from Kim Wagner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Well, she\u2019s not supposed to beat him up over all those past losses, first of all; but appeal to him, on the basis of the truthfulness of the Word\u2014to go to him in humility\u2014I mean, honesty, with humility, is a huge foundation stone in a marriage. Say, \u201cHoney, I want to be behind you. I want to walk with you through this, but would you be willing to consider a few things?\u201d And ask some questions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, July 16<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. If you\u2019re one of those truth-tellers in your marriage, you may need to listen to some counsel from Kim Wagner today on how to tell the truth in love. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, we\u2019re talking, this week, about fierceness\u2014about the fact that there is a good kind of fierce, and there\u2019s an unsanctified kind of fierce. When the unsanctified comes out, it can be unpleasant for anybody who is in the path of the unsanctified fierce one. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s well-said. And I\u2019m grateful for our guest on today\u2019s show. Kim Wagner joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. She\u2019s written a book called <em>Fierce Women<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think you\u2019re on to something really important here, Kim. I think this subject is a needed subject to be talked about\u2014to be understood by both women and their husbands\u2014so that they know how to treat a woman who is strong\u2014who possesses a persevering intentionality, a toughness\u2014internal toughness\u2014even though she may not be outgoing. But she, perhaps, can use her fierceness against her husband; and it can damage that relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>You and your husband, LeRoy, who is a pastor, have been married since 1981. You shared earlier how in the first five years of your marriage, how you turned that fierce spirit against him. Instead of using your tongue, like a paint brush, to encourage him, and edify him, and build him, you used it like an ice pick. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And there was a point, five years into your marriage, where he came to you and said, \u201cI don\u2019t think I love you anymore.\u201d That\u2019s a dramatic moment in anybody\u2019s marriage relationship; but here\u2019s a pastor and a pastor\u2019s wife\u2014had he stepped out of the pulpit, at this point in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> No. No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> He was still preaching. Everybody looked at you guys\u2014I\u2019m sure, externally\u2014and thought, \u201cThey\u2019re such a cute couple,\u201d and probably just presumed that there was affection there; but there hadn\u2019t been affection there for a while; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Right. And there would come seasons where it would wane and flow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> You know, we would go to a marriage weekend or a retreat. We would work on things for a while; but there were deep-seated root issues that needed to be dealt with\u2014 that it took a few years before we even started working on those. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And part of the issue was that you didn\u2019t see issues in you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Exactly; exactly. I was speaking, recently, to a group of women\u2014where I usually ask women, when I\u2019m talking on this subject\u2014\u201cWould you just be willing to repeat after me that, \u2018It\u2019s not all my husband\u2019s fault\u2019?\u201d I lead them in that\u2014to say that. So\u2014this large group of women\u2014all, repeat, \u201cIt\u2019s not all my husband\u2019s fault.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I hear this one woman, just a few feet away from me, say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m saying it with my mouth, but I don\u2019t mean in it in my heart!\u201d You know? I think that really a lot of women have just planted themselves there\u2014that they\u2019re determined: \u201cHe is the problem, and I\u2019m not budging. I\u2019m not moving.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And there were years in your marriage where that was you\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. Yes, I really\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cHe\u2019s the problem\u2014my pastor husband\u2014whom I fell in love with because he preaches the Gospel with passion and power. He\u2019s the problem, and it\u2019s not me\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Exactly; exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did it even dawn on you that it might be you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> You know, I think I was so filled with pride that, no. I could point to so many examples, mentally, of where he wasn\u2019t measuring up or coming through that it was just my twisted thinking; but I think a lot of women can be there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Were you controlling? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes, I was controlling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> How? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Controlling in a lot of ways\u2014just through how I would communicate\u2014try and get him to do what I would want him to do\u2014controlling in how we spent our time, decisions he would make at the church. I gave more than just good wifely input. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, give me, then, an example of how that\u2019s done in a controlling way versus how it would be done in an appropriate way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if a wife is listening and she goes: \u201cI don\u2019t want to be controlling. I wonder if maybe I am,\u201d\u2014if she\u2019s offering her husband counsel. He says, \u201cYou know, I\u2019ve been thinking maybe we should sell the car and get a different car.\u201d She\u2019s thinking, \u201cWell, I\u2019d like to speak into that.\u201d What\u2019s a controlling way to do that, and what\u2019s the appropriate way to do that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Okay, the fierce woman, who is living self-centeredly\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> \u2014and for her own agenda, might say something like: \u201cSell the car? Are you kidding?! We don\u2019t have money to buy a new car.\u201d She would start running down the idea before he had time to even investigate it. She would shoot down his dream, right away. Now, in contrast to that, the fierce woman\u2014who wants to empower her husband, come alongside him, be his true helpmeet\u2014would pause, even if she thought it was an idiotic idea. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was talking to a woman, last week, who her husband wanted to buy a sewing machine. Now, it\u2019s usually the woman that wants to buy it, and it was a $4,000 sewing machine\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh my word! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> \u2014for a leather business he wanted to start. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> And she had a fit about it, and she regrets that now. She said: \u201cHow could I have rephrased my support? How could I have done that differently?\u201d I said, \u201cWell, you know, you could say: \u2018I don\u2019t understand all of this dream that you have. I am not completely on board with the sewing machine thing, but you know what? I know you, and I know how you are good at going after a project and tackling it. This is a dream you have; so I\u2019m behind you. I don\u2019t understand it, but I\u2019m behind you. Let\u2019s go for it.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ve got to go back, though, to this $4,000 sewing machine; okay? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let\u2019s say this wife is going: \u201cWait a sec! We\u2019re already in $7,000-worth of credit card debt, and he wants to buy a $4,000 sewing machine.\u201d You\u2019re telling me I should say, \u201cHoney, I support your dream\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> I am so glad you phrased it that way because there are\u2014the woman I was talking about in that situation\u2014they could make that investment\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> \u2014and she has watched him be faithful with their finances. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, let\u2019s go to the woman\u2014who, maybe, he doesn\u2019t even know the Lord. He does not live wisely. He is a foolish man\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is about the fourth harebrained idea he\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014had, and they\u2019ve lost a lot of money on previous ones. What is she supposed to say? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Well, she\u2019s not supposed to beat him up over all those past losses, first of all; but appeal to him, on the basis of the truthfulness of the Word\u2014to go to him, in humility\u2014I mean, honesty, with humility, is a huge foundation stone in a marriage. Say: \u201cHoney, I want to be behind you. I want to walk with you through this, but would you be willing to consider\u2014let\u2019s consider a few things,\u201d and ask some questions. Now, I don\u2019t mean asking questions that are going to dump guilt on him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You don\u2019t mean put him on the witness stand and say\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Not interrogation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cWhat about this, and this, and this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Not at all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> But leading questions that will help him to think through this\u2014maybe, in a more sensible way. Now, maybe, he won\u2019t. Maybe, he goes right ahead and makes the foolish choice. The hardest thing, for a woman, is to walk through those tough places\u2014the tough love, where you do speak truth\u2014I call it, \u201cGrace talks\u201d\u2014having salty grace talks, where you speak truth in a gracious manner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, there are those men who are caught in addictive lifestyles\u2014where it is our responsibility, as wives, as a loving wife\u2014true love is to come alongside our brother, like Galatians 6:1-2 says. Bearing his burden can include coming alongside and saying: \u201cHoney, I\u2019ve noticed this lifestyle of sin. I love you too much to leave you there,\u201d and to appeal to him on that basis\u2014to walk away from that, to get help, and to get accountability\u2014and to let him know, \u201cI\u2019m going to let this go for a period of time. If you haven\u2019t found someone to be accountable with and to help with this, then, I will go to our church leadership and talk with them about it,\u201d because that\u2019s biblical. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s Matthew 18\u2014following that principle of including your pastoral help, your leadership in your church. It shouldn\u2019t be a woman doing that battle on her own. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Kim, you\u2019ve done a good job of equipping a wife, who may need to add some nuances to her fierceness so that she can use it constructively. We\u2019re about to find out that your husband, LeRoy, took a decisive and dramatic step; and we\u2019ll hold on that for just a moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut would there have been something he could have done to have gotten your attention and to have invited you into a relationship\u2014where you put down your tongue, that had become a sword, and instead build that relationship instead of being in a dark place\u2014being in an enjoyable place of oneness, as a couple? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes; and he admits that now, Dennis, that\u2014you know, I talk about how I failed him\u2014but he admits, now, that he failed to step up to the leadership role, as a mature man\u2014that he allowed himself to be beat up, so to speak, by me, verbally\u2014and had never been exposed to that kind of treatment from a woman before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And so, he just retreated? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> And he retreated. And now, I am so thankful for his leadership role where, if I\u2019m having a day where\u2014[Laughter]\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What kind of day? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s not\u2014it\u2019s just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What kind of day?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> \u2014it just popped in my head. [Laughter] We were\u2014recently, I was doing a wedding shower at our church. You know, how we girls\u2014we put out all the pretty things. I had just dumped all the nuts in. The bride and groom-to-be have come over, and they are standing and talking to me. I\u2019m watching LeRoy, out of the corner of my eye, grabbing the nuts out of the bowl\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, absolutely, they\u2019re there. That\u2019s what they are there for. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes, with his hands! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> I haven\u2019t put the spoon, yet, in the bowl! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Spoons are just there as an ornament, Kim. [Laughter] They are not there for function. Nuts are easy. You just pick them up and eat them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, what did you say, Kim? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> And I\u2019m watching this\u2014well, when we get alone, as I\u2019m on the way to the kitchen to get the spoon to put in the bowl, I look at him. I do smile, and I do it teasingly; but I said, \u201cIf you put your hands in that bowl one more time, you\u2019re going to see the old Kim come out in fierceness.\u201d [Laughter] And his face\u2014he just looked at me and said, \u201cI won\u2019t put my hands in.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No, no, no, no. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Been there. Felt that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Not going to go there. Not going to go there. So, you\u2019re saying it\u2019s an issue of leadership with men. They\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> It is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014can\u2019t lash out and become abusive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014physically, verbally, emotionally. However\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They can\u2019t retreat either. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014they can\u2019t retreat. They need to step up, and step into the relationship, and somehow find the ability to appeal\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014to his wife\u2019s heart to have a real relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> And the way that LeRoy does this best\u2014and I hope some men are listening\u2014is when he sees me start to get worked up, he\u2019ll say, \u201cHoney, can we pray about this?\u201d He\u2019ll take my hand. Now, in the old days of my fierceness, he would pray; and I would glare at him. But after God broke my heart\u2014graciously broke my heart\u2014all he has to do is appeal to the Father\u2014invite the Holy Spirit into that situation\u2014and immediately it\u2019s diffused. We have the help of the Holy Spirit then. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne commitment he made to me\u2014once we began building on our relationship\u2014one commitment he made is that he would never go again another day without praying with me. He has kept that commitment, whether we are in different countries, different states. He calls me, and we pray together. He prayed with me a few minutes before this broadcast. It is so unifying for us; but it also puts us in that position again of reminding us we are inviting the Holy Spirit into our relationship, daily. We are depending on Him. We are going to Him. It is not just communication with one another that\u2019s open, but it is knowing that we\u2019re communicating together with the Father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> The reason prayer is so important is because it involves the bending of our wills\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014before a Will\u2014that\u2019s a capital will. It is the Master\u2014the King of kings, Lord of lords\u2014and frankly, I don\u2019t think Barbara and I would be married today if we hadn\u2019t built that spiritual discipline into our marriage, back in the first year, over forty years ago. We found the same thing you guys have found out\u2014that when two people bend their wills, there is a chance\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014of having a real relationship, at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Kim, you shared with us that you and LeRoy had been married for five years with tension in your marriage\u2014with isolation, with you having a sharp tongue, and with him retreating. He came to you, at one point, and said: \u201cI don\u2019t have feelings for you anymore. I don\u2019t think I love you anymore.\u201d He was a pastor. You were a pastor\u2019s wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys tried to get some help, but things didn\u2019t get fixed. There did come a point where he said, \u201cI can\u2019t keep doing this.\u201d He made a\u2014what had to be a surprising decision. When he came to you and said, \u201cHere\u2019s what I think God would have me do,\u201d tell our listeners what happened and how you responded to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> It was devastating, to me, when he resigned. He was a young man, pastoring a fairly large church in my home town. [Emotion in voice] It was a devastating day because I knew he was stepping away from what God had called him to\u2014our dream of ministering together. I didn\u2019t know if he would ever preach again\u2014pastor again. It was devastating. He went into a very dark, depressed state. It was very a hard three years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did it awaken, in you, any of the\u2014I mean, did you begin to see anything to go, \u201cMaybe I\u2019ve had something to do with this\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> God began breaking me, and it was a very humbling time. We had a very difficult living situation, and our children were little. I really couldn\u2019t see any light for the future. I didn\u2019t know\u2014he worked in a very hard, secular vocation, and he was away a lot. It was just very hard; but God began breaking me just of my pride\u2014but not yet related to my relationship with LeRoy\u2014just a personal pride. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did anybody know? Did you have friends\u2014anybody in on the interior of what is going on in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes, we had a close couple in the ministry\u2014that were friends and that we would meet with him\u2014really, in a counselor-type setting, seeking help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did anybody ever come alongside you\u2014put their arm around you and say, \u201cYou know, Kim, your tongue might have something to do with this\u201d? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Man, for more fierce women like that\u2014that would do that kind of thing. Do you know, I only had one friend\u2014and I am so grateful for her\u2014and I think she\u2019s the only one, probably, that had the guts to say to me: \u201cYou know, I think that you might intimidate your husband. Do you think that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I\u2014when she said that, I just kind of blew it off. I thought: \u201cIntimidate him! He doesn\u2019t even need me. What do you mean intimidate him?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> The thought had never occurred to you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Never occurred to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And maybe one of the reasons more women didn\u2019t come to you and offer that counsel was because they were afraid you might say back to them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You weren\u2019t welcoming the critique, necessarily. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Exactly. And so that\u2019s what I\u2019m talking about\u2014that first, God had to break down my own pride and hardness of heart, really. He had to make me teachable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Kim, I\u2019ve listened to your story here. You had to see your husband\u2019s face\u2014I mean, when you chipped away\u2014and you write in your book\u2014you emasculated him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. And I kept wanting him to step up and be the man. You know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, your fieriness was, in a way, hoping he would somehow\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014out-duel you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Exactly, and I think a lot of women want that. Yet, they are tearing down their husbands in the process. What they don\u2019t realize is we can almost make our husbands into the very thing that we are repulsed by. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, I guess, if there is a listener, who is in a marriage like this, the lesson is loud and clear: \u201cYou better listen to what God has to say to you through your friends, or a friend, or perhaps, through your spouse, who may be appealing to you to back off\u2014to develop an attitude of love\u2014of respect.\u201d You know, I find it interesting, at the end of Ephesians 5, it commands women to respect their husbands. What I hear you saying: \u201cYou disrespected him. You chipped away at him,\u201d and it almost cost you your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It could even be that God would use a radio program to tap a listener on the shoulder and say\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cThis is a wakeup call.\u201d If that\u2019s the case, I would say, \u201cYou need to, first of all, respond to God; but then, you need to take a step back and go, \u2018Where do I go for help?\u2019\u201d I think the local church is the beginning place; but, Bob, I think the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaway is a great resource for a couple to get alone together, at a nice hotel, and to immerse themselves in the Scripture and to ask God, \u201cWhat do You have to say to me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBack to your illustration earlier, when you speak at the conference, and you say on Friday night: \u201cWe don\u2019t have anything to say to your spouse. We have something to say to you, however.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. If you\u2019re going to go to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u2014and I think you should\u2014go and say, \u201cLord, what do I need to hear?\u201d When you hear something you think your spouse needs to hear, resist the urge to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Elbow. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014lean over and say, \u201cAre you listening, Sweetheart?\u201d\u2014tap your pen. Resist those urges and just say, \u201cLord, what do You have to say to me, here, this weekend?\u201d <br><br>I think we have close to four dozen <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways happening this fall, in cities all across the country. We\u2019d love to have you join us for one of these weekend getaways for husbands and wives. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the link you find there for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> to find out more about when and where a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is going to be happening near where you live. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd find information, there, about the book, <em>Fierce Women: The Power of a Soft Warrior<\/em>, by Kimberly Wagner, our guest today. We have her book in the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. We\u2019re happy to send you a copy when you order it online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I love about the opportunity we have, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, is we get to hear a lot of stories like the one Kim has been sharing with us today\u2014stories of God doing a powerful redemptive work in the lives of husbands and wives in a variety of settings and circumstances. Not long ago, we sat down with Kim and Krickitt Carpenter. They have a dramatic story of God intervening in their marriage\u2014both of them in a car accident\u2014Krickitt experienced significant head trauma. When she came out of her coma, she did not remember her husband\u2014didn\u2019t know him, didn\u2019t have any relationship with him, didn\u2019t know she was married. They had to rebuild, from the ground up. In fact, their story was made into a Hollywood movie called <em>The Vow<\/em>; but in reality, the real-life story is more compelling than the one Hollywood came up with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we have our conversation with the Carpenters available this week. If you can help with a donation to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, we\u2019ll send you that conversation as a thank-you gift for your financial support. You can listen to it\u2014pass it on to someone else who might benefit from hearing the conversation. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d. Make an online donation, and ask for the CD with the Carpenters; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone; and again, ask for the CD with the Carpenters. We\u2019ll get it out to you, and we\u2019re grateful for your support. We just want you to know that. We appreciate your generosity and could not do what we do without you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to invite you back again tomorrow. Kim Wagner is going to be here, and we\u2019re going to continue to hear about how God has brought her fierceness under His control\u2014under the control of the Holy Spirit. So, I hope you can tune in tomorrow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. See you next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.42M"],"filesize_raw":["25604065"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302778.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302778.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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talks about God's move to slowly break her of her pride.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-16.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Some wives are guilty of using their words to tear down a good man, but what does a wife do if her husband is irresponsible? How does she use her words in that kind of situation? Here\u2019s counsel from Kim Wagner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Well, she\u2019s not supposed to beat him up over all those past losses, first of all; but appeal to him, on the basis of the truthfulness of the Word\u2014to go to him in humility\u2014I mean, honesty, with humility, is a huge foundation stone in a marriage. Say, \u201cHoney, I want to be behind you. I want to walk with you through this, but would you be willing to consider a few things?\u201d And ask some questions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, July 16<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. If you\u2019re one of those truth-tellers in your marriage, you may need to listen to some counsel from Kim Wagner today on how to tell the truth in love. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, we\u2019re talking, this week, about fierceness\u2014about the fact that there is a good kind of fierce, and there\u2019s an unsanctified kind of fierce. When the unsanctified comes out, it can be unpleasant for anybody who is in the path of the unsanctified fierce one. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s well-said. And I\u2019m grateful for our guest on today\u2019s show. Kim Wagner joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. She\u2019s written a book called <em>Fierce Women<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think you\u2019re on to something really important here, Kim. I think this subject is a needed subject to be talked about\u2014to be understood by both women and their husbands\u2014so that they know how to treat a woman who is strong\u2014who possesses a persevering intentionality, a toughness\u2014internal toughness\u2014even though she may not be outgoing. But she, perhaps, can use her fierceness against her husband; and it can damage that relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>You and your husband, LeRoy, who is a pastor, have been married since 1981. You shared earlier how in the first five years of your marriage, how you turned that fierce spirit against him. Instead of using your tongue, like a paint brush, to encourage him, and edify him, and build him, you used it like an ice pick. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And there was a point, five years into your marriage, where he came to you and said, \u201cI don\u2019t think I love you anymore.\u201d That\u2019s a dramatic moment in anybody\u2019s marriage relationship; but here\u2019s a pastor and a pastor\u2019s wife\u2014had he stepped out of the pulpit, at this point in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> No. No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> He was still preaching. Everybody looked at you guys\u2014I\u2019m sure, externally\u2014and thought, \u201cThey\u2019re such a cute couple,\u201d and probably just presumed that there was affection there; but there hadn\u2019t been affection there for a while; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Right. And there would come seasons where it would wane and flow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> You know, we would go to a marriage weekend or a retreat. We would work on things for a while; but there were deep-seated root issues that needed to be dealt with\u2014 that it took a few years before we even started working on those. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And part of the issue was that you didn\u2019t see issues in you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Exactly; exactly. I was speaking, recently, to a group of women\u2014where I usually ask women, when I\u2019m talking on this subject\u2014\u201cWould you just be willing to repeat after me that, \u2018It\u2019s not all my husband\u2019s fault\u2019?\u201d I lead them in that\u2014to say that. So\u2014this large group of women\u2014all, repeat, \u201cIt\u2019s not all my husband\u2019s fault.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I hear this one woman, just a few feet away from me, say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m saying it with my mouth, but I don\u2019t mean in it in my heart!\u201d You know? I think that really a lot of women have just planted themselves there\u2014that they\u2019re determined: \u201cHe is the problem, and I\u2019m not budging. I\u2019m not moving.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And there were years in your marriage where that was you\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. Yes, I really\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cHe\u2019s the problem\u2014my pastor husband\u2014whom I fell in love with because he preaches the Gospel with passion and power. He\u2019s the problem, and it\u2019s not me\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Exactly; exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did it even dawn on you that it might be you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> You know, I think I was so filled with pride that, no. I could point to so many examples, mentally, of where he wasn\u2019t measuring up or coming through that it was just my twisted thinking; but I think a lot of women can be there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Were you controlling? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes, I was controlling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> How? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Controlling in a lot of ways\u2014just through how I would communicate\u2014try and get him to do what I would want him to do\u2014controlling in how we spent our time, decisions he would make at the church. I gave more than just good wifely input. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, give me, then, an example of how that\u2019s done in a controlling way versus how it would be done in an appropriate way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if a wife is listening and she goes: \u201cI don\u2019t want to be controlling. I wonder if maybe I am,\u201d\u2014if she\u2019s offering her husband counsel. He says, \u201cYou know, I\u2019ve been thinking maybe we should sell the car and get a different car.\u201d She\u2019s thinking, \u201cWell, I\u2019d like to speak into that.\u201d What\u2019s a controlling way to do that, and what\u2019s the appropriate way to do that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Okay, the fierce woman, who is living self-centeredly\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> \u2014and for her own agenda, might say something like: \u201cSell the car? Are you kidding?! We don\u2019t have money to buy a new car.\u201d She would start running down the idea before he had time to even investigate it. She would shoot down his dream, right away. Now, in contrast to that, the fierce woman\u2014who wants to empower her husband, come alongside him, be his true helpmeet\u2014would pause, even if she thought it was an idiotic idea. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was talking to a woman, last week, who her husband wanted to buy a sewing machine. Now, it\u2019s usually the woman that wants to buy it, and it was a $4,000 sewing machine\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh my word! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> \u2014for a leather business he wanted to start. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> And she had a fit about it, and she regrets that now. She said: \u201cHow could I have rephrased my support? How could I have done that differently?\u201d I said, \u201cWell, you know, you could say: \u2018I don\u2019t understand all of this dream that you have. I am not completely on board with the sewing machine thing, but you know what? I know you, and I know how you are good at going after a project and tackling it. This is a dream you have; so I\u2019m behind you. I don\u2019t understand it, but I\u2019m behind you. Let\u2019s go for it.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ve got to go back, though, to this $4,000 sewing machine; okay? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let\u2019s say this wife is going: \u201cWait a sec! We\u2019re already in $7,000-worth of credit card debt, and he wants to buy a $4,000 sewing machine.\u201d You\u2019re telling me I should say, \u201cHoney, I support your dream\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> I am so glad you phrased it that way because there are\u2014the woman I was talking about in that situation\u2014they could make that investment\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> \u2014and she has watched him be faithful with their finances. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, let\u2019s go to the woman\u2014who, maybe, he doesn\u2019t even know the Lord. He does not live wisely. He is a foolish man\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is about the fourth harebrained idea he\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014had, and they\u2019ve lost a lot of money on previous ones. What is she supposed to say? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Well, she\u2019s not supposed to beat him up over all those past losses, first of all; but appeal to him, on the basis of the truthfulness of the Word\u2014to go to him, in humility\u2014I mean, honesty, with humility, is a huge foundation stone in a marriage. Say: \u201cHoney, I want to be behind you. I want to walk with you through this, but would you be willing to consider\u2014let\u2019s consider a few things,\u201d and ask some questions. Now, I don\u2019t mean asking questions that are going to dump guilt on him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You don\u2019t mean put him on the witness stand and say\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Not interrogation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cWhat about this, and this, and this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Not at all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> But leading questions that will help him to think through this\u2014maybe, in a more sensible way. Now, maybe, he won\u2019t. Maybe, he goes right ahead and makes the foolish choice. The hardest thing, for a woman, is to walk through those tough places\u2014the tough love, where you do speak truth\u2014I call it, \u201cGrace talks\u201d\u2014having salty grace talks, where you speak truth in a gracious manner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, there are those men who are caught in addictive lifestyles\u2014where it is our responsibility, as wives, as a loving wife\u2014true love is to come alongside our brother, like Galatians 6:1-2 says. Bearing his burden can include coming alongside and saying: \u201cHoney, I\u2019ve noticed this lifestyle of sin. I love you too much to leave you there,\u201d and to appeal to him on that basis\u2014to walk away from that, to get help, and to get accountability\u2014and to let him know, \u201cI\u2019m going to let this go for a period of time. If you haven\u2019t found someone to be accountable with and to help with this, then, I will go to our church leadership and talk with them about it,\u201d because that\u2019s biblical. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s Matthew 18\u2014following that principle of including your pastoral help, your leadership in your church. It shouldn\u2019t be a woman doing that battle on her own. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Kim, you\u2019ve done a good job of equipping a wife, who may need to add some nuances to her fierceness so that she can use it constructively. We\u2019re about to find out that your husband, LeRoy, took a decisive and dramatic step; and we\u2019ll hold on that for just a moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut would there have been something he could have done to have gotten your attention and to have invited you into a relationship\u2014where you put down your tongue, that had become a sword, and instead build that relationship instead of being in a dark place\u2014being in an enjoyable place of oneness, as a couple? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes; and he admits that now, Dennis, that\u2014you know, I talk about how I failed him\u2014but he admits, now, that he failed to step up to the leadership role, as a mature man\u2014that he allowed himself to be beat up, so to speak, by me, verbally\u2014and had never been exposed to that kind of treatment from a woman before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And so, he just retreated? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> And he retreated. And now, I am so thankful for his leadership role where, if I\u2019m having a day where\u2014[Laughter]\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What kind of day? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s not\u2014it\u2019s just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What kind of day?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> \u2014it just popped in my head. [Laughter] We were\u2014recently, I was doing a wedding shower at our church. You know, how we girls\u2014we put out all the pretty things. I had just dumped all the nuts in. The bride and groom-to-be have come over, and they are standing and talking to me. I\u2019m watching LeRoy, out of the corner of my eye, grabbing the nuts out of the bowl\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, absolutely, they\u2019re there. That\u2019s what they are there for. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes, with his hands! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> I haven\u2019t put the spoon, yet, in the bowl! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Spoons are just there as an ornament, Kim. [Laughter] They are not there for function. Nuts are easy. You just pick them up and eat them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, what did you say, Kim? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> And I\u2019m watching this\u2014well, when we get alone, as I\u2019m on the way to the kitchen to get the spoon to put in the bowl, I look at him. I do smile, and I do it teasingly; but I said, \u201cIf you put your hands in that bowl one more time, you\u2019re going to see the old Kim come out in fierceness.\u201d [Laughter] And his face\u2014he just looked at me and said, \u201cI won\u2019t put my hands in.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No, no, no, no. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Been there. Felt that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Not going to go there. Not going to go there. So, you\u2019re saying it\u2019s an issue of leadership with men. They\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> It is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014can\u2019t lash out and become abusive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014physically, verbally, emotionally. However\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They can\u2019t retreat either. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014they can\u2019t retreat. They need to step up, and step into the relationship, and somehow find the ability to appeal\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014to his wife\u2019s heart to have a real relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> And the way that LeRoy does this best\u2014and I hope some men are listening\u2014is when he sees me start to get worked up, he\u2019ll say, \u201cHoney, can we pray about this?\u201d He\u2019ll take my hand. Now, in the old days of my fierceness, he would pray; and I would glare at him. But after God broke my heart\u2014graciously broke my heart\u2014all he has to do is appeal to the Father\u2014invite the Holy Spirit into that situation\u2014and immediately it\u2019s diffused. We have the help of the Holy Spirit then. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne commitment he made to me\u2014once we began building on our relationship\u2014one commitment he made is that he would never go again another day without praying with me. He has kept that commitment, whether we are in different countries, different states. He calls me, and we pray together. He prayed with me a few minutes before this broadcast. It is so unifying for us; but it also puts us in that position again of reminding us we are inviting the Holy Spirit into our relationship, daily. We are depending on Him. We are going to Him. It is not just communication with one another that\u2019s open, but it is knowing that we\u2019re communicating together with the Father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> The reason prayer is so important is because it involves the bending of our wills\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014before a Will\u2014that\u2019s a capital will. It is the Master\u2014the King of kings, Lord of lords\u2014and frankly, I don\u2019t think Barbara and I would be married today if we hadn\u2019t built that spiritual discipline into our marriage, back in the first year, over forty years ago. We found the same thing you guys have found out\u2014that when two people bend their wills, there is a chance\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014of having a real relationship, at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Kim, you shared with us that you and LeRoy had been married for five years with tension in your marriage\u2014with isolation, with you having a sharp tongue, and with him retreating. He came to you, at one point, and said: \u201cI don\u2019t have feelings for you anymore. I don\u2019t think I love you anymore.\u201d He was a pastor. You were a pastor\u2019s wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys tried to get some help, but things didn\u2019t get fixed. There did come a point where he said, \u201cI can\u2019t keep doing this.\u201d He made a\u2014what had to be a surprising decision. When he came to you and said, \u201cHere\u2019s what I think God would have me do,\u201d tell our listeners what happened and how you responded to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> It was devastating, to me, when he resigned. He was a young man, pastoring a fairly large church in my home town. [Emotion in voice] It was a devastating day because I knew he was stepping away from what God had called him to\u2014our dream of ministering together. I didn\u2019t know if he would ever preach again\u2014pastor again. It was devastating. He went into a very dark, depressed state. It was very a hard three years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did it awaken, in you, any of the\u2014I mean, did you begin to see anything to go, \u201cMaybe I\u2019ve had something to do with this\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> God began breaking me, and it was a very humbling time. We had a very difficult living situation, and our children were little. I really couldn\u2019t see any light for the future. I didn\u2019t know\u2014he worked in a very hard, secular vocation, and he was away a lot. It was just very hard; but God began breaking me just of my pride\u2014but not yet related to my relationship with LeRoy\u2014just a personal pride. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did anybody know? Did you have friends\u2014anybody in on the interior of what is going on in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes, we had a close couple in the ministry\u2014that were friends and that we would meet with him\u2014really, in a counselor-type setting, seeking help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did anybody ever come alongside you\u2014put their arm around you and say, \u201cYou know, Kim, your tongue might have something to do with this\u201d? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Man, for more fierce women like that\u2014that would do that kind of thing. Do you know, I only had one friend\u2014and I am so grateful for her\u2014and I think she\u2019s the only one, probably, that had the guts to say to me: \u201cYou know, I think that you might intimidate your husband. Do you think that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I\u2014when she said that, I just kind of blew it off. I thought: \u201cIntimidate him! He doesn\u2019t even need me. What do you mean intimidate him?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> The thought had never occurred to you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Never occurred to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And maybe one of the reasons more women didn\u2019t come to you and offer that counsel was because they were afraid you might say back to them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You weren\u2019t welcoming the critique, necessarily. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Exactly. And so that\u2019s what I\u2019m talking about\u2014that first, God had to break down my own pride and hardness of heart, really. He had to make me teachable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Kim, I\u2019ve listened to your story here. You had to see your husband\u2019s face\u2014I mean, when you chipped away\u2014and you write in your book\u2014you emasculated him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. And I kept wanting him to step up and be the man. You know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, your fieriness was, in a way, hoping he would somehow\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014out-duel you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Exactly, and I think a lot of women want that. Yet, they are tearing down their husbands in the process. What they don\u2019t realize is we can almost make our husbands into the very thing that we are repulsed by. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, I guess, if there is a listener, who is in a marriage like this, the lesson is loud and clear: \u201cYou better listen to what God has to say to you through your friends, or a friend, or perhaps, through your spouse, who may be appealing to you to back off\u2014to develop an attitude of love\u2014of respect.\u201d You know, I find it interesting, at the end of Ephesians 5, it commands women to respect their husbands. What I hear you saying: \u201cYou disrespected him. You chipped away at him,\u201d and it almost cost you your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It could even be that God would use a radio program to tap a listener on the shoulder and say\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cThis is a wakeup call.\u201d If that\u2019s the case, I would say, \u201cYou need to, first of all, respond to God; but then, you need to take a step back and go, \u2018Where do I go for help?\u2019\u201d I think the local church is the beginning place; but, Bob, I think the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaway is a great resource for a couple to get alone together, at a nice hotel, and to immerse themselves in the Scripture and to ask God, \u201cWhat do You have to say to me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBack to your illustration earlier, when you speak at the conference, and you say on Friday night: \u201cWe don\u2019t have anything to say to your spouse. We have something to say to you, however.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. If you\u2019re going to go to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u2014and I think you should\u2014go and say, \u201cLord, what do I need to hear?\u201d When you hear something you think your spouse needs to hear, resist the urge to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Elbow. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014lean over and say, \u201cAre you listening, Sweetheart?\u201d\u2014tap your pen. Resist those urges and just say, \u201cLord, what do You have to say to me, here, this weekend?\u201d <br><br>I think we have close to four dozen <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways happening this fall, in cities all across the country. We\u2019d love to have you join us for one of these weekend getaways for husbands and wives. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the link you find there for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> to find out more about when and where a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is going to be happening near where you live. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd find information, there, about the book, <em>Fierce Women: The Power of a Soft Warrior<\/em>, by Kimberly Wagner, our guest today. We have her book in the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. We\u2019re happy to send you a copy when you order it online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I love about the opportunity we have, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, is we get to hear a lot of stories like the one Kim has been sharing with us today\u2014stories of God doing a powerful redemptive work in the lives of husbands and wives in a variety of settings and circumstances. Not long ago, we sat down with Kim and Krickitt Carpenter. They have a dramatic story of God intervening in their marriage\u2014both of them in a car accident\u2014Krickitt experienced significant head trauma. When she came out of her coma, she did not remember her husband\u2014didn\u2019t know him, didn\u2019t have any relationship with him, didn\u2019t know she was married. They had to rebuild, from the ground up. In fact, their story was made into a Hollywood movie called <em>The Vow<\/em>; but in reality, the real-life story is more compelling than the one Hollywood came up with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we have our conversation with the Carpenters available this week. If you can help with a donation to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, we\u2019ll send you that conversation as a thank-you gift for your financial support. You can listen to it\u2014pass it on to someone else who might benefit from hearing the conversation. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d. Make an online donation, and ask for the CD with the Carpenters; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone; and again, ask for the CD with the Carpenters. We\u2019ll get it out to you, and we\u2019re grateful for your support. We just want you to know that. We appreciate your generosity and could not do what we do without you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to invite you back again tomorrow. Kim Wagner is going to be here, and we\u2019re going to continue to hear about how God has brought her fierceness under His control\u2014under the control of the Holy Spirit. So, I hope you can tune in tomorrow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. See you next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302778","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302778"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302778"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302778"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302778"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302778"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302778"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302778"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}