{"id":302772,"date":"2013-07-08T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2013-07-08T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/i-am-who-i-am-by-gods-grace\/"},"modified":"2013-07-08T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2013-07-08T15:00:00","slug":"i-am-who-i-am-by-gods-grace","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/i-am-who-i-am-by-gods-grace\/","title":{"rendered":"I Am Who I Am by God&#8217;s Grace"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Reflecting on his past, McDowell explains why he\u2019s thankful for his childhood, despite the difficulties.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-08.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.58M","filesize_raw":"24730216","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2873],"tags":[2949,4896,5027,5293,4134,5018,4679,5294],"podcast_series":[7958],"cwp_profile":[8945],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302772","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-abuse","tag-alcoholic","tag-conversion","tag-difficulties","tag-life-change","tag-redemption","tag-salvation","tag-testimony","podcast_series-undaunted","cwp_profile-josh-mcdowell","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302772\/i-am-who-i-am-by-gods-grace","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302772\/i-am-who-i-am-by-gods-grace","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"ocDs6E2GGC\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/i-am-who-i-am-by-gods-grace\/\">I Am Who I Am by God&#8217;s Grace<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/i-am-who-i-am-by-gods-grace\/embed\/#?secret=ocDs6E2GGC\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;I Am Who I Am by God&#8217;s Grace&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"ocDs6E2GGC\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-08.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-08.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Growing up on a farm in Michigan, Josh McDowell was sexually abused for years by a hired hand who was often his babysitter. He finally decided he had to tell his mom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> At nine years old, I got up the courage\u2014and it took a lot\u2014to go to my mother and tell her. She wouldn\u2019t believe me. She made me go out in back. We had this huge willow tree, and I had to break off a twig. I went in the house. She made me take off my shirt, and she whipped me. Boy, can I still feel it! She whipped me until I said I was sorry for lying. Dennis, that was probably the loneliest, most fearful, scary day of my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, July 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll hear today the shocking background in the life of a man whom God has used over the years to speak to millions of people about Jesus. Josh McDowell joins us. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I know you\u2019ve told our listeners this before, but how old were you\u2014were you 20?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Twenty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Twenty years old the first time you heard Josh McDowell speak?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> The first time I was out in the audience. He was speaking about <em>Evidence That Demands a Verdict<\/em>. He hit me squarely between the eyes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I mean, I needed the message that Josh was giving on college campuses. Do you have any idea, Josh, how many college campuses you\u2019ve spoken at over the years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s a little over 1,200. [Laughter] That\u2019s a lot of campuses.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That is a <em>lot <\/em>of campuses! Well, I was at one, back in 1968 or \u201869 \u2014I\u2019m not sure what year it was. I\u2019m sure you know exactly when it was, Josh, if you\u2019ve only done 1,200 of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I have a photographic mind, but no film. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I understand that. But, truthfully, Bob, he hit me where I needed to be hit. I was struggling about the questions in the Bible that I couldn\u2019t answer. I needed to know that my faith rested on solid truth that was defendable. Josh defended it and did a great job talking about the evidence for the resurrection.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, this was at the time that the book, <em>Evidence That Demands a Verdict,<\/em> had pretty much just come out. You wrote that book in \u201867\u2014\u201868?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I think it came out in \u201868.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes\u2014so, it was right at the time when that book had just come out. Of course, that became a classic. For years, that was the go-to book for all of us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Josh has only written, now, more than 140 books. Is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> One hundred forty-eight, I think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> One hundred forty-eight. He has spoken to more than 25,000,000 people, in live audiences, in 26,000 presentations, in 125 countries. He and his wife Dottie have four children, ten grandchildren\u2014and he\u2019s a good friend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Twenty-six thousand presentations!? If that\u2019s 1,000 per year, that\u2019s 26 years!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, he\u2019s been at it a bit longer than that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> This is my 52<sup>nd<\/sup> year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I know! But let\u2019s divide it up. Okay, so you\u2019.re only doing like one or two per day for your whole life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Well, three years ago, I averaged 85 talks every 14 days\u2014for a whole year. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And it helps if you\u2019ve got a photographic memory! Josh, you have written a book called <em>Undaunted<\/em>. I know because I saw the movie that you created by the same title. This is kind of a startling revelation. You start the book by talking about how every boy\u2019s childhood ought to be this beautiful season in life. It wasn\u2019t so for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I believe every child should have a marvelous childhood because it actually lays the groundwork for your entire life. My childhood wasn\u2019t that marvelous, overall; but you know what? I now wouldn\u2019t trade it for anything because He says He will cause all things to work together for the good. I really believe God took some of these things that happened in my life\u2014they weren\u2019t good!\u2014but He\u2019s worked them out for the good. Now, I\u2019m able to help <em>so many<\/em> other people that I <em>never<\/em> could have reached before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> As I was reflecting on your story again today, Josh, I thought again of First Corinthians 15, verse 10. I thought, \u201cThis is a great description of your life.\u201d Paul says: \u201cBut by the grace of God, I am what I am. His grace toward me was not in vain.\u201d Your life is a story of God\u2019s grace, helping you get beyond some\u2014well, a tragic season in your life. Take us back to when you were a boy. One by one, introduce us to your mom, your dad, and your brother and sister.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I was born into a family where my parents had not gone beyond the second grade. They came out of Idaho. I loved my mother very much, but she wasn\u2019t big\u2014she was <em>huge<\/em>. She would literally walk through any door and would hit each side of the door. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She had a thyroid problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Because of that\u2014today, they have a pill you take; and that will solve it. It didn\u2019t matter if she starved herself\u2014she gained weight. Now, I didn\u2019t know all of that back then. You know one of the things that affected me as a child? I loved my mother, but I was embarrassed to be seen with my mother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> We would go to Battle Creek, Michigan, for shopping for clothes for school in August. I remember walking through, always thinking: \u201cAre any of my friends here? Are any of my friends here?\u201d I mean, it was hard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mother came to every one of my football games and never saw me play. She was <em>so big<\/em> she couldn\u2019t sit in the bleachers or anything, and people lined the field. She would come to every game and sit in the car. I remember, at halftime, often I would run over to the car and everything; and she would be crying. That just left me very sad, as a child\u2014but that conflict between loving my mother and not wanting to be seen with her affected me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy father was a small man. He must have been pretty sharp because he became the manager of a huge A&amp;P store. Everything was going well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You described him, in the book, as a pioneer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Yes, a pioneer, I mean\u2014but alcohol got to him. He lost the store and everything. We ended up on a farm that a very wealthy aunt\u2014we called her aunt, but I don\u2019t think she was a family member\u2014gave it to my dad\u2014the whole farm and everything. My dad was creative\u2014you could tell. One day, he pulled me out of school for one week in May. We cut all the hay, and baled it, and said, \u201cWhy are we doing that?\u201d He said, \u201cBecause it\u2019s going to rain all summer.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNo sooner did we cut all of the hay, it rained for weeks. Everybody lost their crops except for us. I always looked up to my dad for that, but he was always drunk. The problem with my dad was\u2014when he was sober, or when he was drunk\u2014he was okay. It was that in-between that he was mean. It was that in-between\u2014that I would go out to the barn, at age eight or nine years old, and see my mother lying in the manure, in a gutter, behind the cows. My father, where he was half-drunk, would yank the air holes off the milk pipes and beat my mother to a bloody pulp\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> \u2014until she was so weak and bloody she couldn\u2019t stand up. At eight, nine, or ten years old, I remember running in, and pushing him, and kicking him. Anyone listening, right now, who has an alcoholic parent, knows what I\u2019m talking about here. If you don\u2019t, you don\u2019t. A child of an alcoholic, every day, carries shame with them. You just carry that shame\u2014embarrassment. But you have that ability, usually, to hide it within yourself, where it eats away from within; but outside, everybody thinks you\u2019re great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would have friends come over to the house. Families would come over and dad would be either half-drunk or passed out in the barn. I would go out, and I\u2019d grab him either around the neck or pick up his feet. I would pull him into the barn. I would pull him into this one pen\u2014and drop him on the straw. I was a little guy, but he was a little man. I would get him up against the boards. I would put his arms through the boards, behind him, and then bring them around the front. Then, I\u2019d take a rope\u2014and tie from one wrist to the other wrist. Then, I would put the other end around his feet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll I ever wanted was for him to stop hurting my mother, whom I loved so much. Bob, maybe this makes sense to you\u2014I know it does to Dennis. I grew up with guilt that it was my fault. My father was able to hurt my mother because I couldn\u2019t stop him. I couldn\u2019t stop him. I remember that first time I could stop him\u2014I felt so good. I felt like I was relieved from all of the guilt\u2014that, \u201cNow, I could do it!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There was a sense of needing to protect your mom\u2014that was bone-deep inside of you. As a little guy, when you couldn\u2019t do that\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Oh, and my sisters and all\u2014I felt a need that if I didn\u2019t protect them, I wasn\u2019t a loving brother\u2014I wasn\u2019t a loving person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you the youngest in the family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Yes, I was the baby. There were five of us. I was, by far, the baby. Three of my two sisters and brother were old enough to be my mother or father.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Where were they in the midst of all of this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> They had all pretty much left home because they were so much older than I was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> My one sister was in the military. My other sister was off to college and married and all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But they had to know what was going on, back at the farm, with little Josh?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure they did\u2014with the alcohol. They had to know it because my sister married a man just like my father, who was drunk all the time\u2014she would always bring up about dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut probably equal to the alcohol and the violence in the family\u2014whew! [Emotion in voice] Between six and thirteen years of age\u2014for seven years\u2014every week, I was abused, in my own home, by a man by the name of Wayne Bailey. He had been hired to be a cook and a housekeeper on the farm because my mom was so big her body could not carry her weight. She was in bed all of the time. The doctors would come out to put her hips back in place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they hired Wayne to be a cook and a housekeeper. From that moment\u2014when I was six years old\u2014my mom would go downtown shopping, my parents would go away, whatever\u2014my mother would always grab my shirt, make me stand in front of Wayne Bailey, and she would say: \u201cNow, Josh. You obey Wayne. You do everything he tells you to do. If you\u2019re disobedient, you\u2019re going to get a thrashing when I get home.\u201d And you did <em>not <\/em>want a thrashing from my mother! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo what do you do at six years old?\u2014whew! [Emotion in voice] You do what Wayne Bailey tells you. At nine years old, I got up the courage\u2014and it took a lot\u2014to go to my mother and tell her. She wouldn\u2019t believe me. She made me go out in back. We had this huge willow tree, and I had to break off a twig. I went in the house. She made me take off my shirt, and she whipped me. Boy, can I still feel it! She whipped me until I said I was sorry for lying. Dennis, that was probably the loneliest, most fearful, scary day of my life because, at nine years old, I knew that what was being done to me was evil. I couldn\u2019t do anything about it. My parents wouldn\u2019t do anything about it. I remember being so scared and fearful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt even affects me today\u2014if I\u2019m in a room alone\u2014like if I was in here, in this studio alone, focused on something like writing, and either one of you\u2014or any man\u2014walked into this room\u2014and this happens about three or four times a week\u2014an instant fear grips me\u2014only for several seconds. I can\u2019t explain it\u2014it just grips me! If a woman, it doesn\u2019t do it. So, I still have implications today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, at 13 years old, my mom had gone downtown with my dad. Wayne Bailey came up and put his hand on my shoulder. I spun around, and cupped my hand around his throat, and pushed him against the wall. I said, \u201cIf you ever touch me again, I will kill you.\u201d He never touched me again, but I\u2019m so <em>thankful<\/em> I came to know Jesus because between my dad, and Wayne Bailey, and the violence in my family, I would have destroyed my marriage; I would have destroyed my family; I would have destroyed my life; and I never would have followed Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, hearing you describe what you\u2019ve just described for us, and reflecting back on how you started this whole story, I am grateful for the home I grew up in. Evil was done, but God has redeemed it and used it for good. It\u2019s hard to even think that there could be any gratitude\u2014that you wouldn\u2019t just wall off that part of your life and say, \u201cI wish it had never happened.\u201d Of course, you wish it had never happened! I know what you\u2019re saying, but you understand the contradiction that you feel and hear in that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> A number of years ago, Joe Musser did a biography of me\u2014not an autobiography\u2014a biography. He gave me a list of questions. I went to the hotel\u2014there in Julian, California\u2014where I lived\u2014and got a room. One question was all about my mom and my dad. I was writing it out, and I broke out crying. It was about two o\u2019clock in the morning. I remember I walked over\u2014there was an old double bed there. I got down on my knees, and I started to pray. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was probably the first time I confronted <em>myself<\/em> with a lot of these issues in my life. Dennis, I don\u2019t know if this makes sense to you or not\u2014but my reasoning went: \u201cI like myself. I\u2019m not what I ought to be, but I\u2019m not what I used to be. By God\u2019s grace, I\u2019m not what I\u2019m going to be; but oh, enjoying the process, even though it\u2019s hard.\u201d I said, \u201cI like who I am,\u201d and I said: \u201cGod, You\u2019ve made me who I am, in spite of my past, but who did you use most in my life?\u201d You know what I concluded? It was my mom and dad\u2014an overweight mother, who permitted me to be abused\u2014and an alcoholic father, who abused the family. I\u2019ll never forget when I said: \u201cGod, thank You for my mom and dad. I don\u2019t want to be a parent like them, but thank You!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember that I begged\u2014I didn\u2019t pray; I begged God\u2014to use it, in my life, for the good. Bob, I was set free. I think, then, I was released from my past and could start dealing with it. If Joe Musser had never done that biography, I\u2019m not sure I would ever even be sitting at this table today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You also fulfilled the Fifth Commandment, Josh, in a sense of giving thanks for your imperfect parents. You honored them before God\u2014not the evil, certainly, that they did\u2014but in giving them honor\u2014the promise of that passage is, \u201cHonor your father and your mother, that you may live long in the land which the Lord your God gives you.\u201d That\u2019s what you experienced. You experienced freedom from all of those haunting images and damage that was done. God has given you a long life to proclaim Him to a <em>lot<\/em> of people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I\u2019m grateful for that; but, you know, what I did\u2014I grew up\u2014and I think many people do this\u2014I was always envying other people\u2019s parents: \u201cWhy couldn\u2019t I have a dad like that?\u201d \u201cWhy couldn\u2019t I have a mother like that?\u201d \u201cWhy\u2026..\u201d I found out later, I wasn\u2019t much better in my own home life; but, \u201cWhy couldn\u2019t I have a home like that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when I kind of gave my parents over\u2014the history of it, the hurt, everything\u2014to God, it was freedom! It really was. It led me to finally contacting Henry Cloud. I said: \u201cHenry, I\u2019ve got a problem. I need a coach.\u201d For one year, he met with me. That\u2019s when I learned how the Word of God can transform your life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know, what really took a hold was, after I became a Christian\u2014I trusted Jesus at the university. Most people think I had an intellectual problem with Christianity. Well, I <em>did<\/em> because of all the books I\u2019ve written on it, but my greatest problem was not intellectual.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> People would say to me, \u201cYou have a Heavenly Father who loves you.\u201d That didn\u2019t bring joy into my life\u2014that brought pain because I was not able\u2014and it\u2019s still hard for me today\u2014to discern the difference between a Heavenly Father and an earthly father. I grew up believing fathers hurt. I looked at God: \u201cI\u2019m not going to look up to God. He\u2019ll hurt me if He is my Heavenly Father.\u201d That was one of the greatest barriers I had to overcome. But after I trusted Jesus, I had to tell someone. It was just a <em>burning fire<\/em> in my chest that I had to tell somebody!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis, I don\u2019t think I was looking for answers. I don\u2019t think I was looking for counseling or anything. I really believe I just wanted someone to believe me. I just wanted someone to believe me. So, I went to the man who led me to Christ\u2014a pastor of a little, tiny church\u2014a very wise man. I called him up and asked, \u201cCan I come over and talk?\u201d I went over, and I sat there for 45 minutes, and I couldn\u2019t say it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, I just blurted it out; and he believed me! Oh guys, it was like being born again, again. He believed me. For six months, he mentored me out of the Scriptures. People say to me, \u201cWhy do you have such <em>deep <\/em>convictions that the Bible is true?\u201d I say, \u201cWell, for one, intellectually, I know it is true; but emotionally, it has changed my life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> He took the Word of God and all of my fears, the guilt, the anger; and he applied Scripture, through the Holy Spirit, to my life. At the end of those six months, I knew he was going to say it\u2014and I didn\u2019t want to hear it, but I knew he was going to say it\u2014he said, \u201cJosh, you need to forgive him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re talking about the guy who abused you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Wayne Bailey, yes. My problem was\u2014it was a nice problem\u2014I knew the Bible was true. I knew God commanded it; but emotionally, I didn\u2019t want to forgive that man. I wanted him to burn in hell. But I did it\u2014I did it out of faith. When the Bible says, \u201cWithout faith, you cannot please God,\u201d I believe that God commanded me to forgive, even though I didn\u2019t want to, emotionally. I needed to be obedient to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I prayed about it and everything. I drove 45 miles up to where he lived, at that time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI knocked on the door. When he answered the door, I said, \u201cWayne, what you did to me was evil\u2014very evil\u2014but I\u2019ve come to know Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord, and I\u2019ve come here to tell you\u2026.\u201d And, guys, what I told him\u2014I didn\u2019t want to be true. I <em>knew<\/em> it was true; but I did\u2014<em>emotionally<\/em>, I did not want it to be true. I said: \u201cWayne, I\u2019ve come here to tell you that Jesus died as much for you as He died for me. I forgive you.\u201d\u00a0 Whew!! You talk about a load being lifted off my shoulders. That started me on a path of healing\u2014through the whole process\u2014but I\u2019m still working through it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, I just want to go back and quote First Corinthians 15:10, \u201cI am who I am by the grace of God.\u201d Josh, I\u2019m just reflecting back on the many contributions you\u2019ve made to evangelical Christianity and to the church\u2014not only in America\u2014but around the world. Your books have been translated into dozens of languages and impacting tens of millions. Those who have been victimized don\u2019t have to become a victim. Those who have been abused can become vessels of grace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve just\u2014by virtue of your story\u2014you have\u2014what you have done is allow us to peer into a little boy\u2019s life, who grew up to become a man God used greatly because you allowed God to break through some areas in your heart that needed to be let go. You needed to forgive. I\u2019m glad you did; and because you have, you\u2019re still making a great contribution to a lot of folks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I think the fact that you\u2019ve been so disclosing, both in the book you\u2019ve written, which is called <em>Undaunted<\/em>, and in the movie that tells the story of your life, by the same name\u2014I think that is going to give a lot of people hope. I think your transparency will help people recognize you can acknowledge your past\u2014even acknowledge parts of your past that were shameful\u2014without being bound up by it. There\u2019s liberation when this comes to light. When darkness is replaced with light, there is a healing impact that takes place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would just encourage our listeners\u2014we have both the book and the DVD of Josh\u2019s story, <em>Undaunted<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com to request either the book or the DVD as something you may want to watch together, as a family. This would be suitable for parents of children who are maybe 12 years old or older. You can watch this together, as a family, and have some conversation about real life and real family issues. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the book, <em>Undaunted<\/em>, and the DVD that tells the story of the life of Josh McDowell, as a boy. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; and our toll-free number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. We hope to hear from you. Hope you enjoy this book; and I hope you enjoy the DVD, as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, listening to Josh\u2019s story, I\u2019m reminded of some of the challenges we\u2019ve heard couples talk about, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,related to marriage and family. Over and over again, we have heard people talk about God\u2019s grace and God\u2019s power in the midst of difficult family situations. Not long ago, we had Kim and Krickitt Carpenter join us on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>They shared their story, which was later made into a movie called <em>The Vow<\/em>. If you didn\u2019t hear the interview, Kim and Krickitt were both in a car accident. Krickitt had a traumatic brain injury. She could not remember her husband. She couldn\u2019t remember being married. They had to start from scratch at rebuilding their marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a compelling story. This week, we\u2019re making the interview of our conversation with Kim and Krickitt Carpenter available to those of you who can help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>with a donation. We want to say, \u201cThanks for your partnership with us, here, in this ministry;\u201d and we\u2019re happy to make the CD available to you when you go online to make a donation at FamilyLifeToday.com. All you have to do is click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d. Make an online donation, and we\u2019ll send the CD to you. Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make your donation over the phone. Ask for the CD of the interview with Kim and Krickitt Carpenter. Again, we\u2019re happy to send it to you; and we are grateful for your support of the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear more from Josh McDowell about his life, growing up in Michigan, and about some of the challenges he faced, as a young boy. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.58M"],"filesize_raw":["24730216"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302772.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302772.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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on his past, McDowell explains why he\u2019s thankful for his childhood, despite the difficulties.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-07-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Growing up on a farm in Michigan, Josh McDowell was sexually abused for years by a hired hand who was often his babysitter. He finally decided he had to tell his mom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> At nine years old, I got up the courage\u2014and it took a lot\u2014to go to my mother and tell her. She wouldn\u2019t believe me. She made me go out in back. We had this huge willow tree, and I had to break off a twig. I went in the house. She made me take off my shirt, and she whipped me. Boy, can I still feel it! She whipped me until I said I was sorry for lying. Dennis, that was probably the loneliest, most fearful, scary day of my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, July 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll hear today the shocking background in the life of a man whom God has used over the years to speak to millions of people about Jesus. Josh McDowell joins us. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I know you\u2019ve told our listeners this before, but how old were you\u2014were you 20?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Twenty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Twenty years old the first time you heard Josh McDowell speak?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> The first time I was out in the audience. He was speaking about <em>Evidence That Demands a Verdict<\/em>. He hit me squarely between the eyes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I mean, I needed the message that Josh was giving on college campuses. Do you have any idea, Josh, how many college campuses you\u2019ve spoken at over the years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s a little over 1,200. [Laughter] That\u2019s a lot of campuses.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That is a <em>lot <\/em>of campuses! Well, I was at one, back in 1968 or \u201869 \u2014I\u2019m not sure what year it was. I\u2019m sure you know exactly when it was, Josh, if you\u2019ve only done 1,200 of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I have a photographic mind, but no film. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I understand that. But, truthfully, Bob, he hit me where I needed to be hit. I was struggling about the questions in the Bible that I couldn\u2019t answer. I needed to know that my faith rested on solid truth that was defendable. Josh defended it and did a great job talking about the evidence for the resurrection.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, this was at the time that the book, <em>Evidence That Demands a Verdict,<\/em> had pretty much just come out. You wrote that book in \u201867\u2014\u201868?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I think it came out in \u201868.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes\u2014so, it was right at the time when that book had just come out. Of course, that became a classic. For years, that was the go-to book for all of us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Josh has only written, now, more than 140 books. Is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> One hundred forty-eight, I think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> One hundred forty-eight. He has spoken to more than 25,000,000 people, in live audiences, in 26,000 presentations, in 125 countries. He and his wife Dottie have four children, ten grandchildren\u2014and he\u2019s a good friend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Twenty-six thousand presentations!? If that\u2019s 1,000 per year, that\u2019s 26 years!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, he\u2019s been at it a bit longer than that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> This is my 52<sup>nd<\/sup> year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I know! But let\u2019s divide it up. Okay, so you\u2019.re only doing like one or two per day for your whole life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Well, three years ago, I averaged 85 talks every 14 days\u2014for a whole year. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And it helps if you\u2019ve got a photographic memory! Josh, you have written a book called <em>Undaunted<\/em>. I know because I saw the movie that you created by the same title. This is kind of a startling revelation. You start the book by talking about how every boy\u2019s childhood ought to be this beautiful season in life. It wasn\u2019t so for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I believe every child should have a marvelous childhood because it actually lays the groundwork for your entire life. My childhood wasn\u2019t that marvelous, overall; but you know what? I now wouldn\u2019t trade it for anything because He says He will cause all things to work together for the good. I really believe God took some of these things that happened in my life\u2014they weren\u2019t good!\u2014but He\u2019s worked them out for the good. Now, I\u2019m able to help <em>so many<\/em> other people that I <em>never<\/em> could have reached before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> As I was reflecting on your story again today, Josh, I thought again of First Corinthians 15, verse 10. I thought, \u201cThis is a great description of your life.\u201d Paul says: \u201cBut by the grace of God, I am what I am. His grace toward me was not in vain.\u201d Your life is a story of God\u2019s grace, helping you get beyond some\u2014well, a tragic season in your life. Take us back to when you were a boy. One by one, introduce us to your mom, your dad, and your brother and sister.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I was born into a family where my parents had not gone beyond the second grade. They came out of Idaho. I loved my mother very much, but she wasn\u2019t big\u2014she was <em>huge<\/em>. She would literally walk through any door and would hit each side of the door. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She had a thyroid problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Because of that\u2014today, they have a pill you take; and that will solve it. It didn\u2019t matter if she starved herself\u2014she gained weight. Now, I didn\u2019t know all of that back then. You know one of the things that affected me as a child? I loved my mother, but I was embarrassed to be seen with my mother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> We would go to Battle Creek, Michigan, for shopping for clothes for school in August. I remember walking through, always thinking: \u201cAre any of my friends here? Are any of my friends here?\u201d I mean, it was hard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mother came to every one of my football games and never saw me play. She was <em>so big<\/em> she couldn\u2019t sit in the bleachers or anything, and people lined the field. She would come to every game and sit in the car. I remember, at halftime, often I would run over to the car and everything; and she would be crying. That just left me very sad, as a child\u2014but that conflict between loving my mother and not wanting to be seen with her affected me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy father was a small man. He must have been pretty sharp because he became the manager of a huge A&amp;P store. Everything was going well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You described him, in the book, as a pioneer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Yes, a pioneer, I mean\u2014but alcohol got to him. He lost the store and everything. We ended up on a farm that a very wealthy aunt\u2014we called her aunt, but I don\u2019t think she was a family member\u2014gave it to my dad\u2014the whole farm and everything. My dad was creative\u2014you could tell. One day, he pulled me out of school for one week in May. We cut all the hay, and baled it, and said, \u201cWhy are we doing that?\u201d He said, \u201cBecause it\u2019s going to rain all summer.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNo sooner did we cut all of the hay, it rained for weeks. Everybody lost their crops except for us. I always looked up to my dad for that, but he was always drunk. The problem with my dad was\u2014when he was sober, or when he was drunk\u2014he was okay. It was that in-between that he was mean. It was that in-between\u2014that I would go out to the barn, at age eight or nine years old, and see my mother lying in the manure, in a gutter, behind the cows. My father, where he was half-drunk, would yank the air holes off the milk pipes and beat my mother to a bloody pulp\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> \u2014until she was so weak and bloody she couldn\u2019t stand up. At eight, nine, or ten years old, I remember running in, and pushing him, and kicking him. Anyone listening, right now, who has an alcoholic parent, knows what I\u2019m talking about here. If you don\u2019t, you don\u2019t. A child of an alcoholic, every day, carries shame with them. You just carry that shame\u2014embarrassment. But you have that ability, usually, to hide it within yourself, where it eats away from within; but outside, everybody thinks you\u2019re great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would have friends come over to the house. Families would come over and dad would be either half-drunk or passed out in the barn. I would go out, and I\u2019d grab him either around the neck or pick up his feet. I would pull him into the barn. I would pull him into this one pen\u2014and drop him on the straw. I was a little guy, but he was a little man. I would get him up against the boards. I would put his arms through the boards, behind him, and then bring them around the front. Then, I\u2019d take a rope\u2014and tie from one wrist to the other wrist. Then, I would put the other end around his feet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll I ever wanted was for him to stop hurting my mother, whom I loved so much. Bob, maybe this makes sense to you\u2014I know it does to Dennis. I grew up with guilt that it was my fault. My father was able to hurt my mother because I couldn\u2019t stop him. I couldn\u2019t stop him. I remember that first time I could stop him\u2014I felt so good. I felt like I was relieved from all of the guilt\u2014that, \u201cNow, I could do it!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There was a sense of needing to protect your mom\u2014that was bone-deep inside of you. As a little guy, when you couldn\u2019t do that\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Oh, and my sisters and all\u2014I felt a need that if I didn\u2019t protect them, I wasn\u2019t a loving brother\u2014I wasn\u2019t a loving person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you the youngest in the family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Yes, I was the baby. There were five of us. I was, by far, the baby. Three of my two sisters and brother were old enough to be my mother or father.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Where were they in the midst of all of this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> They had all pretty much left home because they were so much older than I was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> My one sister was in the military. My other sister was off to college and married and all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But they had to know what was going on, back at the farm, with little Josh?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure they did\u2014with the alcohol. They had to know it because my sister married a man just like my father, who was drunk all the time\u2014she would always bring up about dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut probably equal to the alcohol and the violence in the family\u2014whew! [Emotion in voice] Between six and thirteen years of age\u2014for seven years\u2014every week, I was abused, in my own home, by a man by the name of Wayne Bailey. He had been hired to be a cook and a housekeeper on the farm because my mom was so big her body could not carry her weight. She was in bed all of the time. The doctors would come out to put her hips back in place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they hired Wayne to be a cook and a housekeeper. From that moment\u2014when I was six years old\u2014my mom would go downtown shopping, my parents would go away, whatever\u2014my mother would always grab my shirt, make me stand in front of Wayne Bailey, and she would say: \u201cNow, Josh. You obey Wayne. You do everything he tells you to do. If you\u2019re disobedient, you\u2019re going to get a thrashing when I get home.\u201d And you did <em>not <\/em>want a thrashing from my mother! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo what do you do at six years old?\u2014whew! [Emotion in voice] You do what Wayne Bailey tells you. At nine years old, I got up the courage\u2014and it took a lot\u2014to go to my mother and tell her. She wouldn\u2019t believe me. She made me go out in back. We had this huge willow tree, and I had to break off a twig. I went in the house. She made me take off my shirt, and she whipped me. Boy, can I still feel it! She whipped me until I said I was sorry for lying. Dennis, that was probably the loneliest, most fearful, scary day of my life because, at nine years old, I knew that what was being done to me was evil. I couldn\u2019t do anything about it. My parents wouldn\u2019t do anything about it. I remember being so scared and fearful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt even affects me today\u2014if I\u2019m in a room alone\u2014like if I was in here, in this studio alone, focused on something like writing, and either one of you\u2014or any man\u2014walked into this room\u2014and this happens about three or four times a week\u2014an instant fear grips me\u2014only for several seconds. I can\u2019t explain it\u2014it just grips me! If a woman, it doesn\u2019t do it. So, I still have implications today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, at 13 years old, my mom had gone downtown with my dad. Wayne Bailey came up and put his hand on my shoulder. I spun around, and cupped my hand around his throat, and pushed him against the wall. I said, \u201cIf you ever touch me again, I will kill you.\u201d He never touched me again, but I\u2019m so <em>thankful<\/em> I came to know Jesus because between my dad, and Wayne Bailey, and the violence in my family, I would have destroyed my marriage; I would have destroyed my family; I would have destroyed my life; and I never would have followed Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, hearing you describe what you\u2019ve just described for us, and reflecting back on how you started this whole story, I am grateful for the home I grew up in. Evil was done, but God has redeemed it and used it for good. It\u2019s hard to even think that there could be any gratitude\u2014that you wouldn\u2019t just wall off that part of your life and say, \u201cI wish it had never happened.\u201d Of course, you wish it had never happened! I know what you\u2019re saying, but you understand the contradiction that you feel and hear in that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> A number of years ago, Joe Musser did a biography of me\u2014not an autobiography\u2014a biography. He gave me a list of questions. I went to the hotel\u2014there in Julian, California\u2014where I lived\u2014and got a room. One question was all about my mom and my dad. I was writing it out, and I broke out crying. It was about two o\u2019clock in the morning. I remember I walked over\u2014there was an old double bed there. I got down on my knees, and I started to pray. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was probably the first time I confronted <em>myself<\/em> with a lot of these issues in my life. Dennis, I don\u2019t know if this makes sense to you or not\u2014but my reasoning went: \u201cI like myself. I\u2019m not what I ought to be, but I\u2019m not what I used to be. By God\u2019s grace, I\u2019m not what I\u2019m going to be; but oh, enjoying the process, even though it\u2019s hard.\u201d I said, \u201cI like who I am,\u201d and I said: \u201cGod, You\u2019ve made me who I am, in spite of my past, but who did you use most in my life?\u201d You know what I concluded? It was my mom and dad\u2014an overweight mother, who permitted me to be abused\u2014and an alcoholic father, who abused the family. I\u2019ll never forget when I said: \u201cGod, thank You for my mom and dad. I don\u2019t want to be a parent like them, but thank You!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember that I begged\u2014I didn\u2019t pray; I begged God\u2014to use it, in my life, for the good. Bob, I was set free. I think, then, I was released from my past and could start dealing with it. If Joe Musser had never done that biography, I\u2019m not sure I would ever even be sitting at this table today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You also fulfilled the Fifth Commandment, Josh, in a sense of giving thanks for your imperfect parents. You honored them before God\u2014not the evil, certainly, that they did\u2014but in giving them honor\u2014the promise of that passage is, \u201cHonor your father and your mother, that you may live long in the land which the Lord your God gives you.\u201d That\u2019s what you experienced. You experienced freedom from all of those haunting images and damage that was done. God has given you a long life to proclaim Him to a <em>lot<\/em> of people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> I\u2019m grateful for that; but, you know, what I did\u2014I grew up\u2014and I think many people do this\u2014I was always envying other people\u2019s parents: \u201cWhy couldn\u2019t I have a dad like that?\u201d \u201cWhy couldn\u2019t I have a mother like that?\u201d \u201cWhy\u2026..\u201d I found out later, I wasn\u2019t much better in my own home life; but, \u201cWhy couldn\u2019t I have a home like that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when I kind of gave my parents over\u2014the history of it, the hurt, everything\u2014to God, it was freedom! It really was. It led me to finally contacting Henry Cloud. I said: \u201cHenry, I\u2019ve got a problem. I need a coach.\u201d For one year, he met with me. That\u2019s when I learned how the Word of God can transform your life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know, what really took a hold was, after I became a Christian\u2014I trusted Jesus at the university. Most people think I had an intellectual problem with Christianity. Well, I <em>did<\/em> because of all the books I\u2019ve written on it, but my greatest problem was not intellectual.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> People would say to me, \u201cYou have a Heavenly Father who loves you.\u201d That didn\u2019t bring joy into my life\u2014that brought pain because I was not able\u2014and it\u2019s still hard for me today\u2014to discern the difference between a Heavenly Father and an earthly father. I grew up believing fathers hurt. I looked at God: \u201cI\u2019m not going to look up to God. He\u2019ll hurt me if He is my Heavenly Father.\u201d That was one of the greatest barriers I had to overcome. But after I trusted Jesus, I had to tell someone. It was just a <em>burning fire<\/em> in my chest that I had to tell somebody!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis, I don\u2019t think I was looking for answers. I don\u2019t think I was looking for counseling or anything. I really believe I just wanted someone to believe me. I just wanted someone to believe me. So, I went to the man who led me to Christ\u2014a pastor of a little, tiny church\u2014a very wise man. I called him up and asked, \u201cCan I come over and talk?\u201d I went over, and I sat there for 45 minutes, and I couldn\u2019t say it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, I just blurted it out; and he believed me! Oh guys, it was like being born again, again. He believed me. For six months, he mentored me out of the Scriptures. People say to me, \u201cWhy do you have such <em>deep <\/em>convictions that the Bible is true?\u201d I say, \u201cWell, for one, intellectually, I know it is true; but emotionally, it has changed my life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> He took the Word of God and all of my fears, the guilt, the anger; and he applied Scripture, through the Holy Spirit, to my life. At the end of those six months, I knew he was going to say it\u2014and I didn\u2019t want to hear it, but I knew he was going to say it\u2014he said, \u201cJosh, you need to forgive him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re talking about the guy who abused you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Josh:<\/strong> Wayne Bailey, yes. My problem was\u2014it was a nice problem\u2014I knew the Bible was true. I knew God commanded it; but emotionally, I didn\u2019t want to forgive that man. I wanted him to burn in hell. But I did it\u2014I did it out of faith. When the Bible says, \u201cWithout faith, you cannot please God,\u201d I believe that God commanded me to forgive, even though I didn\u2019t want to, emotionally. I needed to be obedient to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I prayed about it and everything. I drove 45 miles up to where he lived, at that time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI knocked on the door. When he answered the door, I said, \u201cWayne, what you did to me was evil\u2014very evil\u2014but I\u2019ve come to know Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord, and I\u2019ve come here to tell you\u2026.\u201d And, guys, what I told him\u2014I didn\u2019t want to be true. I <em>knew<\/em> it was true; but I did\u2014<em>emotionally<\/em>, I did not want it to be true. I said: \u201cWayne, I\u2019ve come here to tell you that Jesus died as much for you as He died for me. I forgive you.\u201d\u00a0 Whew!! You talk about a load being lifted off my shoulders. That started me on a path of healing\u2014through the whole process\u2014but I\u2019m still working through it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, I just want to go back and quote First Corinthians 15:10, \u201cI am who I am by the grace of God.\u201d Josh, I\u2019m just reflecting back on the many contributions you\u2019ve made to evangelical Christianity and to the church\u2014not only in America\u2014but around the world. Your books have been translated into dozens of languages and impacting tens of millions. Those who have been victimized don\u2019t have to become a victim. Those who have been abused can become vessels of grace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve just\u2014by virtue of your story\u2014you have\u2014what you have done is allow us to peer into a little boy\u2019s life, who grew up to become a man God used greatly because you allowed God to break through some areas in your heart that needed to be let go. You needed to forgive. I\u2019m glad you did; and because you have, you\u2019re still making a great contribution to a lot of folks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I think the fact that you\u2019ve been so disclosing, both in the book you\u2019ve written, which is called <em>Undaunted<\/em>, and in the movie that tells the story of your life, by the same name\u2014I think that is going to give a lot of people hope. I think your transparency will help people recognize you can acknowledge your past\u2014even acknowledge parts of your past that were shameful\u2014without being bound up by it. There\u2019s liberation when this comes to light. When darkness is replaced with light, there is a healing impact that takes place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would just encourage our listeners\u2014we have both the book and the DVD of Josh\u2019s story, <em>Undaunted<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com to request either the book or the DVD as something you may want to watch together, as a family. This would be suitable for parents of children who are maybe 12 years old or older. You can watch this together, as a family, and have some conversation about real life and real family issues. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the book, <em>Undaunted<\/em>, and the DVD that tells the story of the life of Josh McDowell, as a boy. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; and our toll-free number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. We hope to hear from you. Hope you enjoy this book; and I hope you enjoy the DVD, as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, listening to Josh\u2019s story, I\u2019m reminded of some of the challenges we\u2019ve heard couples talk about, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,related to marriage and family. Over and over again, we have heard people talk about God\u2019s grace and God\u2019s power in the midst of difficult family situations. Not long ago, we had Kim and Krickitt Carpenter join us on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>They shared their story, which was later made into a movie called <em>The Vow<\/em>. If you didn\u2019t hear the interview, Kim and Krickitt were both in a car accident. Krickitt had a traumatic brain injury. She could not remember her husband. She couldn\u2019t remember being married. They had to start from scratch at rebuilding their marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a compelling story. This week, we\u2019re making the interview of our conversation with Kim and Krickitt Carpenter available to those of you who can help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>with a donation. We want to say, \u201cThanks for your partnership with us, here, in this ministry;\u201d and we\u2019re happy to make the CD available to you when you go online to make a donation at FamilyLifeToday.com. All you have to do is click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d. Make an online donation, and we\u2019ll send the CD to you. Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make your donation over the phone. Ask for the CD of the interview with Kim and Krickitt Carpenter. Again, we\u2019re happy to send it to you; and we are grateful for your support of the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear more from Josh McDowell about his life, growing up in Michigan, and about some of the challenges he faced, as a young boy. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302772","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302772"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302772"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302772"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302772"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302772"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302772"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302772"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}