{"id":302760,"date":"2013-06-18T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2013-06-18T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-downward-spiral\/"},"modified":"2013-06-18T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2013-06-18T15:00:00","slug":"the-downward-spiral","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-downward-spiral\/","title":{"rendered":"The Downward Spiral"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>For Joy McClain, living with an alcoholic husband had become a nightmare.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-18.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.5M","filesize_raw":"23588930","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2861],"tags":[4896,4837],"podcast_series":[7953],"cwp_profile":[9306],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302760","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-spiritually-mismatched","tag-alcoholic","tag-troubled-marriage","podcast_series-waiting-for-his-heart","cwp_profile-joy-mcclain","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302760\/the-downward-spiral","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302760\/the-downward-spiral","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Odc7QOo29B\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-downward-spiral\/\">The Downward Spiral<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-downward-spiral\/embed\/#?secret=Odc7QOo29B\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Downward Spiral&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Odc7QOo29B\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-18.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-18.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Joy McClain\u2019s husband had a drinking problem. For years, Joy didn\u2019t tell anyone. Eventually, she realized she needed help; and she started opening up to friends at church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I had to be very careful about who I was keeping company with\u2014who I was receiving council from\u2014because, unfortunately, even in the church, you will hear: \u201cLeave\u00a0 and divorce them. Move on. It\u2019s time. It\u2019s\u201d\u2014whatever. His sin was blatant. My sins weren\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, June 18<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Joy McClain joins us today to share what she did to try to find help and hope in the midst of a desperate marriage. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Do you ever do this at church? Do you ever look around\u2014at the other couples who are at church on Sunday morning and wonder\u2014I mean, I\u2019d see the couples I know at church\u2014and my presumption is, based on what I see at church\u2014that they are all doing pretty well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s my assumption. Even though, Bob, you and I have been doing radio, now, for over\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We know! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201420 years. We know from our own lives, first of all; and then, we know from what you and I\u2019ve shared with each other, here on the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We know that <em>we\u2019re<\/em> hiding stuff, and we know that <em>they<\/em> are hiding stuff. I think it\u2019s healthy for us to kind of know: \u201cLook! When you\u2019re there next week\u2014when you\u2019re there this Sunday\u2014there are folks there who may look like they\u2019ve got it all together, but some of them are on the edge.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> They are. And you never know who it is. You really don\u2019t because some people are really, really good at putting on the mask\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and hiding it. We have a friend with us, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, who goes all the way back to the beginning of our broadcast, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> The only one she can remember that we did\u2014no, that\u2019s not true. The one she likes the most was granny camp. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right, where we talked about grandparents having a summer camp for their kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And she\u2019s, now, a grandmother\u2014so, you understand why. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But I\u2019m just impressed that we finally get to talk to one of the seven or eight people, back on day one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There are a lot of them out there. Joy McClain joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Joy\u2014welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Thank you. Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Joy is an author, a teacher, a speaker, a counselor\u2014lives in Greenwood, Indiana, along with her husband Mark. She\u2019s been married since 1985. They have four children. She\u2019s written a book that is subtitled <em>Lessons From a Wife Who Chose to Stay<\/em>. That gives you a hint of what it is about, and the book is called <em>Waiting For His Heart<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you\u2019ve already shared with us, this week, about your relationship with Mark. You guys dated for five years before you got married. You knew, in the midst of that, that he drank with his friends\u2014didn\u2019t drink much around you. You also knew that his family was not as spiritually-centered as your family was. You guys were both church- goers. You were not living a committed life for the Lord, at that point; he wasn\u2019t either. Your marriage\u2014you began to have this drift. You had three kids in the first three years of marriage. Life gets busy. You\u2019re at home. He\u2019s working. You start to isolate. He starts drinking a little more. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He starts slipping deeper and deeper into alcoholism. At what point, did you let others into the story\u2014where you said, \u201cWe\u2019ve got a problem here, and we need help\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Probably about year eight, nine, ten\u2014I waited too long. I don\u2019t know why I\u2014I think some women, when they read Proverbs 31and are taught they need to respect their husband\u2014I think sometimes, they mistake that as being secretive or that nothing should be wrong about your husband. You\u2019re afraid to share. You\u2019re afraid you\u2019re going to disrespect him. And I think there is a measure of your own pride\u2014that, \u201cThis really is going on in our home.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when I did finally reach out, in the church community, I was so glad that I did because, not only did others <em>reveal<\/em> that they struggled, too, but I got <em>sound counsel<\/em> and help. Finally, I had people praying for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, how did it happen? I mean, did you share with a small group of women? Did you share with your pastor? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I shared with one woman. I shared with one woman, who I had known for years and years, over the phone one day. I felt like I could trust this woman because I was making myself very vulnerable here. I felt like I had to be cautious. I didn\u2019t want to tell just anybody\u2014who I was afraid would tell so and so, and tell so and so, and not make it a prayer event but a gossip event. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, my main concern, at this point in time, was being trustworthy. I knew that she was placing her trust in the Lord, and I had watched her growth over the years. But it started with that one woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And was it an impulse to share with her? In the middle of a conversation, did you just think, \u201cI\u2019m going to tell her,\u201d or had you been planning and plotting? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Planning, thinking, and praying. One day, I picked up the phone and dialed. That initial contact with someone\u2014anyone\u2014just knowing, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s <em>okay<\/em> to share,\u201d then, led to sharing it a little more. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Describe the conversation. When you picked up the phone and dialed and she answered, what did you say? Describe what your marriage was like and what you would have told her, at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I think I just blurted it out. I think, because I was so fearful, I just kind of wanted to get it over with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Blurted out, \u201cWe\u2019re in trouble\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Just blurted it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Blurted out what? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> \u201cMark is drinking too much, and I can\u2019t take it anymore,\u201d\u2014just very simple\u2014basic. I was, emotionally, just so fragmented, at this point\u2014didn\u2019t know where to turn. Although I was seeking the Lord and in studies, I had not yet, like I said, understood the <em>value<\/em> of community\u2014the <em>value<\/em> of reaching out. Once I did that\u2014and it was safe\u2014it was safe. I tested the waters with her\u2014it was okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It was life-giving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was life-giving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> If you hadn\u2019t done that, do you think you\u2019d be sitting here today? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Absolutely not; absolutely not. I can\u2019t imagine where I\u2019d be. I think I\u2019d be a very embittered woman. <br><br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I want our listeners to hear. There is a tendency, when we get in trouble, and it\u2019s\u2014I don\u2019t know if it is\u2014shame, guilt, wanting to keep the pretense up, make others feel good about us\u2014but we don\u2019t want to drop our guard and find that safe person\u2014to invite them into our struggle and say: \u201cCould you help us? I\u2019m sinking. I\u2019m going down for the third time.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you know what? I like what Pastor Matt Chandler says in Dallas. At their church, routinely, he will say about their church: \u201cIt\u2019s okay not to be okay here. It\u2019s not okay to stay there, but it is okay not to be okay.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think a lot of us get to church, and we don\u2019t feel like it is okay not to be okay. If I told you what\u2019s really going on in my marriage\u2014in my family, with my husband \/ with my wife\u2014if I told you that, I\u2019d get shoved over into a corner. I\u2019d be the anomaly rather than just a fellow struggler. I think that\u2019s part of the culture that causes people to say, \u201cI\u2019m not going to admit that there is anything going on in my relationship.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> The shame paralyzes us. Unfortunately, my husband had that same perception of the church when he\u2019d walk in: \u201cEverybody has got their lives together. These husbands are great. They\u2019re doing what they\u2019re supposed to be. I\u2019m a loser. I can\u2019t even get through life without drinking. I\u2019m letting my wife down, letting my kids down. I don\u2019t even <em>belong<\/em> here.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. I had a guy\u2014a recovering alcoholic\u2014who was coming to our church\u2014who said to me, at one point\u2014he said, \u201cWhen I first came to the church, I thought, \u2018I wonder if they\u2019ll let guys like me even be a member here,\u2019\u201d because he thought, \u201cEverybody else is so different than me, given my background and what I\u2019ve struggled with.\u201d What he found was\u2014no\u2014we\u2019ve all got the issues. We\u2019ve all got sin patterns in our lives and stuff we wrestle with. The more we can be transparent about that, the healthier we can get. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes, you\u2019re right. We want everything wrapped up, prettied up, and neat and tidy. That\u2019s what I discovered\u2014that, \u201cWait a minute! That fairy-tale image I had of marriage, or men making me happy, or my man making me happy\u2014that\u2019s a lie from the enemy, and a very dangerous lie.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, once I discovered that my true happiness would come from the contentment of pursuing and knowing the Lord, intimately\u2014then, that gave me hope.\u00a0 But it also, in a sense, left my husband in the dust because, as I pursued Him, Mark just felt more and more ashamed and more and more paralyzed. So, I had to be very careful\u2014although I had, at this point, started reaching out\u2014I had to be very careful about who I was keeping company with\u2014who I was receiving counsel from\u2014because, unfortunately, even in the church, you will hear: \u201cLeave and divorce them. Move on. It\u2019s time. It\u2019s\u201d\u2014whatever. His sin was blatant. My sins weren\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s what I\u2019m wondering. When you had this courageous phone call with this friend and said: \u201cMark is drinking. I don\u2019t know if I can handle it.\u201d What kind of counsel did you get? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Well, she was just being a friend and being understanding. She was just affirming my sorrow\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> \u2014more than anything. I barely tested the waters. She\u2014I would say, spiritually, we were almost at the same level of maturity. So, I just needed a friend to say, \u201cIt\u2019s going to be okay.\u201d <br><br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did you start getting people who would come up to you and say, \u201cI think you need to leave\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Well, over the years, it\u2019s kind of like what happened because, as I went to the church\u2014went to the pastors, went to the elders\u2014I would not let anyone forget that they were supposed to be praying for my husband. I was relentless in asking for prayer for him. I didn\u2019t disrespect him. I didn\u2019t just speak it to anyone; but I knew if they were a firm believer, I wanted them to pray for me\u2014\u2014pray for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs time went on and as they saw, sometimes, my weariness\u2014my children\u2019s weariness\u2014I mean, when you\u2019re talking two decades, sometimes, people will say, \u201cYou know, maybe, it\u2019s time just to let that go, maybe\u2014you\u2019re going to be okay.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Godly, spiritually-minded\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It did happen\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014people in the church? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> \u2014and it happened in the church, yes; and it did. I\u2019m sad to say that, but it does. Sometimes, people want to slap a Scripture on it. So often, I felt like I\u2014my family\u2014meaning me, and my children, and my husband\u2014were wreckage on the side of the road. We were bleeding to death; and people, within the church, often, would drive by, roll down their window, throw a Scripture out, slap a Band-Aid<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> on us, and drive on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, what should they have done instead of that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Well, sometimes, I think the perception of mine was because I was coming from sorrow and pain. Every once in a while, someone did pull over\u2014get out. What the wonderful thing is\u2014is that some of these women, who are my deep friends, would say, \u201cYou know, Joy, that attitude of yours has really got to go.\u201d Sometimes, I\u2019d say: \u201cWhy would you say that to me? Here I am, in sorrow.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are times when we validate the sorrow; and there are times we say: \u201cYour identity is not despair. God has more for you in this than your despair.\u201d We can become real comfortable in our pain. Women, who are married to men who struggle for years and years, can become real comfortable in that identity of being a woman of sorrow. Sometimes, you need someone to kick you in the backside a little bit to say: \u201cKeep going! Keep going!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is interesting because what I\u2019m hearing you say is that, as you sat, women would come and sit with you\u2014like Job\u2019s counselors would come\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and sit. They\u2019d just sit, and they\u2019d listen. They\u2019d sorrow with you; but then, they would kindly, and gently, and carefully, and compassionately say, \u201cLet\u2019s talk about you.\u201d They would force you back to the only thing that you could manage, and control, and have any influence over\u2014and that\u2019s your attitude, your actions, and your behaviors. \u201cThat was helpful,\u201d\u2014is what you are saying? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was helpful. Now, it was difficult, at times, to receive. There were times that I didn\u2019t want to receive it; but then, there were times when I was more open\u2014my heart was more pliable. But once I began to be willing to look at <em>me<\/em>:\u201cWait a minute! Maybe, this isn\u2019t all Mark. Maybe, I do have quite a bit to contribute, here, in the deterioration of our relationship.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod began to reveal to me\u2014just the <em>ugliness<\/em>, the <em>vileness<\/em>, the <em>evilness<\/em> of my self-centeredness, of my desire for the happiness rather than holiness, of being fear- driven\u2014which caused so much of my control and <em>my<\/em> <em>right<\/em> theology. It\u2019s like my theology had shifted\u2014like: \u201cGod, I know you are Creator of the universe. I know that You spoke the creation, and even me, into being; but do you see me and my sorrow?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had to get a right theology, and perspective of who God is, and who I am, in Him. That\u2019s what helped bring on more compassion for my husband and the bigger realization that I\u2019m not battling flesh alone\u2014I\u2019m battling against the principalities of darkness. This is spiritual warfare. That helped me get a right perspective\u2014a healthy perspective. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, therefore, I could make wise choices. I would seek out wise counsel. I would respond in love, not <em>react<\/em>. Despair was no longer my identity. I was a daughter of the King. No matter what happened with my husband\u2014even if he never came around\u2014I knew I was going to be okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Joy, I think the counsel you are giving right now\u2014I think that\u2019s the essence of it. I really do think we have to see that God is in the storm. He is in the midst of our circumstances that we go through\u2014that we don\u2019t like\u2014and He does have lessons for us. It is important that we choose the right people to truly listen to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would just like to speak up, however, on behalf of those who do give bad counsel. There\u2019s a reason why. As we share what\u2019s really going on\u2014like you talk about\u2014what was taking place, on a Saturday, at your home\u2014as a friend listening, it\u2019s difficult not to think, \u201cYou know\u2014that dirty, no good, low down\u2014how could he do that?\u201d You understand why people give that counsel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reason I say that is\u2014if you\u2019re hearing that from somebody else\u2014be careful of rushing in with a conclusion that all the problem is on one person. Back to what you are saying, Joy, it really does take two to tango. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You were having a tango dance with your husband. Describe what was happening\u2014near the end of the downward spiral\u2014of what was taking place in your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He had totally pulled away. His drinking spiraled down and came to the point where he was drunk, all the time. He was functioning in that he could go to his job; but the moment he got off work, he began to drink. On weekends, it was\u2014it was just all over by the morning time. His frustration\u2014his internal struggles\u2014became so great that he was immensely angry. He was not a happy-go-lucky drunk, at all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe would rage and just come after you\u2014and not, necessarily, physically\u2014but with words\u2014 and just berate you and destroy you with his words. He had no self-control\u2014was making very poor choices, financially\u2014and put us in a difficult situation, with finances. The kids are terrified of him. They\u2019re walking on egg shells. They never know what kind of dad they\u2019re going to get. Their friends can\u2019t come over. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You describe him as stalking you, within the house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was like being a hunted animal. Late at night\u2014when he was drunk and your babies are in bed\u2014you know, by this time, they\u2019re teenagers; okay?\u2014young teenagers. But he would like\u2014I felt like a hunted animal. There was no place I could go where he wasn\u2019t going to follow me and just scream obscenities at me. You say, \u201cHow can you stay in that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne night\u2014at night, just a light bulb went off, \u201cWhat am I doing?\u201d One night\u2014I was lying in bed. He was so angry because I would not respond. I would never respond because he would just\u2014it would just make it worse. But one night, he came\u2014and he took the bed I was lying on\u2014and he just lifted it. I mean, he was just\u2014his adrenaline was going, and he was so angry. He just lifted the bed, and I toppled over. I climbed back into\u2014I didn\u2019t really know what to do, at this point. And he did it again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought: \u201cI\u2019m next. He\u2019s touching the thing that I\u2019m on. I am next! I can\u2019t do this anymore. I\u2019m putting myself in danger\u2014my children. They are watching this. What are they learning? This is not normal.\u201d I did not want them to think that it is. There were several nights before\u2014that we left, in the middle of the night\u2014went to a hotel or a friend\u2019s house. So, I had to make a decision to file for a legal separation from him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI sought wise counsel. We prayed about it; but for a year, we were legally separated. I refused to file a divorce. After that legal separation was up, he had every right to come home; and he did. After about six weeks, he was back to his old ways. I knew it wasn\u2019t going to change, and I had put myself into the same position. I was fearful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if I wasn\u2019t going to file anything against him\u2014I couldn\u2019t file another legal separation, in the state of Indiana. The only thing left was for me to leave. So, I took my kids one day; and we moved out. I felt like the Lord spoke to me and said, \u201cDon\u2019t take anything he\u2019s going to use.\u201d So, we just took our beds and dressers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> In the middle of the day, while he was at work? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> In the middle of the day\u2014we moved fast. I didn\u2019t even know where to go\u2014where to rent. I had no money; but I found a little rental house, out in the country\u2014way out in the country. I just trusted God to provide. I had two brothers\u2014and my sister showed up. We loaded up this truck. We didn\u2019t take very much, and we moved into there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor a while, he did not know where we were. I was fearful, when he would find out, what would happen. But he didn\u2019t do anything. He didn\u2019t act on it. He was angry and frustrated, but he did not show up at the door or cause any scenes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And the kids were with you on this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> The kids were with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They understood what was going on? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Well, by this time, my son is getting ready to leave for college. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> So, they\u2019re\u2014he\u2019s a young adult, and my daughters are in high school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were they saying, \u201cIt\u2019s about time we did this, Mom\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> They said, \u201cIf you don\u2019t move, we are.\u201d I mean, they\u2019re just\u2014\u201cWe can\u2019t do this anymore\u2014neither can you, Mom.\u201d So, we began\u2014for three years, we lived apart from him. That is where I saw the hand of God move, like never before, in my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly where God wanted you, at that point. It\u2019s not like He wanted you to experience all the evil you were experiencing\u2014or the kids\u2014but He wanted you to make a courageous step of faith and step away from that which was so destructive and provide some space between you and the kids\u2014and Mark, your husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I want our listeners to hear is, all the way through the broadcast today, Joy has repeatedly talked about wise counsel\u2014has talked about going and seeking prayerful wise counsel\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And community has been essential. I mean, that\u2019s a theme, here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Isolation is deadly here. And it could be physically deadly\u2014not just emotionally deadly to a marriage and to a family\u2014but it could be\u2014it could cost you your life. You need to let other people in on what\u2019s going on in your life. I know that\u2019s a step of faith; but as you pray about it\u2014as you don\u2019t do it impulsively\u2014but as you process it and ask God to raise up someone to be able to have the conversation with to say: \u201cHere\u2019s what we\u2019re experiencing. Help!\u201d\u2014and ask God to meet you, in the midst of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of the ways our listeners have been reaching out and helping others\u2014in their community or in their church\u2014has been by hosting an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video event. It\u2019s a Friday night\/Saturday video seminar that can be hosted, really, anywhere. You can host it wherever you have a screen and some speakers. A lot of folks have been doing it at church, but you can do it just about anywhere. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe cool thing about <em>The<\/em> <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> is that couples get a chance to hear from you\u2014from folks like Crawford Loritts, and Voddie Baucham, and Paul David Tripp, and Al Mohler, and Russell Moore. There\u2019s a long list of guys who are speaking on <em>The<\/em> <em>Art of Marriage<\/em>, but they also get to see what marriage transformation looks like as they hear couples share their stories, as they see some dramatic vignettes, as they get a chance to be immersed in the Scriptures for an extended period of time on a Friday night and a Saturday. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We are hoping that, over the next three months\u2014between now and the end of September\u2014there might be a thousand <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners who would say: \u201cI want to make a difference in the marriages around me\u2014in my community, in my church, even in my family. I\u2019ll host one of these <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> events and invite folks to come.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019ll do that\u2014if you\u2019ll call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY, and say, \u201cI\u2019ll host an event in our community,\u201d\u2014you give us the date and the location where you are going to do that\u2014we\u2019ll send you <em>The<\/em> <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> kit, at no cost\u2014the DVD\u2019s, workbook, the leader\u2019s guide\u2014everything you need so you can host one of these events. All we ask is that you cover the cost of shipping and handling. We\u2019ll send the complete kit out to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, all you have to do is call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Let us know the date and the location where the event is going to be hosted. If you have any questions, or if you need any help with your event, we\u2019ve got a team that\u2019s ready to help you. So, it\u2019s easy to do; and it is a powerful ministry opportunity for you and for others in your community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCall 1-800-FL-TODAY and say: \u201cI\u2019d be willing to host an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> event. My spouse and I would love to do that.\u201d Call and we\u2019ll send the kit out to you, absolutely free\u2014just cover the cost of the shipping and the handling\u2014and let us know the date and the location where you\u2019re hosting your <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> event. Then, pray with us\u2014that there might be more than a thousand of these events, over the next three months, in cities, all across the country\u2014that we can point people to. Now, when folks call us and say, \u201cIs there a place we can get help?\u201d we can point them to these <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> events, taking place, all across the country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me also encourage you\u2014when you go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com, get a copy of the book that Joy McClain has written about her marriage. It\u2019s called <em>Waiting For His Heart<\/em>. It tells her story, in more detail than we\u2019re able to feature here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. It\u2019s a book you may want to pass on to someone you know who is struggling in a marriage like this, as well. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy; or call 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, I want to say a quick word of thanks to those of you who help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We could not do what we do without you. Your financial support is what makes this daily program possible on your local station. We\u2019re grateful for the partnership we have with you. This week, if you are able to make a donation to support the ministry, we\u2019d love to send you a message from Dennis Rainey on audio CD\u2014a message where he talks about parents and teens\u2014how we can help our kids be prepared for the dangerous and deadly traps that are out there, in front of them. <br><br>Simply, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d, to make an online donation; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone, and ask for the CD from Dennis Rainey. Again, we\u2019re happy to send it out to you. And again, thanks for standing with us, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd be sure to be back with us again tomorrow. We\u2019re going to hear from Joy McClain about the transforming work God did in her husband, Mark\u2019s, life. We\u2019re going to hear about what led up to that transformation. Hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Justin Adams, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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Joy McClain, living with an alcoholic husband had become a nightmare.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-18.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Joy McClain\u2019s husband had a drinking problem. For years, Joy didn\u2019t tell anyone. Eventually, she realized she needed help; and she started opening up to friends at church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I had to be very careful about who I was keeping company with\u2014who I was receiving council from\u2014because, unfortunately, even in the church, you will hear: \u201cLeave\u00a0 and divorce them. Move on. It\u2019s time. It\u2019s\u201d\u2014whatever. His sin was blatant. My sins weren\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, June 18<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Joy McClain joins us today to share what she did to try to find help and hope in the midst of a desperate marriage. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Do you ever do this at church? Do you ever look around\u2014at the other couples who are at church on Sunday morning and wonder\u2014I mean, I\u2019d see the couples I know at church\u2014and my presumption is, based on what I see at church\u2014that they are all doing pretty well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s my assumption. Even though, Bob, you and I have been doing radio, now, for over\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We know! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201420 years. We know from our own lives, first of all; and then, we know from what you and I\u2019ve shared with each other, here on the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We know that <em>we\u2019re<\/em> hiding stuff, and we know that <em>they<\/em> are hiding stuff. I think it\u2019s healthy for us to kind of know: \u201cLook! When you\u2019re there next week\u2014when you\u2019re there this Sunday\u2014there are folks there who may look like they\u2019ve got it all together, but some of them are on the edge.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> They are. And you never know who it is. You really don\u2019t because some people are really, really good at putting on the mask\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and hiding it. We have a friend with us, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, who goes all the way back to the beginning of our broadcast, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> The only one she can remember that we did\u2014no, that\u2019s not true. The one she likes the most was granny camp. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right, where we talked about grandparents having a summer camp for their kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And she\u2019s, now, a grandmother\u2014so, you understand why. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But I\u2019m just impressed that we finally get to talk to one of the seven or eight people, back on day one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There are a lot of them out there. Joy McClain joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Joy\u2014welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Thank you. Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Joy is an author, a teacher, a speaker, a counselor\u2014lives in Greenwood, Indiana, along with her husband Mark. She\u2019s been married since 1985. They have four children. She\u2019s written a book that is subtitled <em>Lessons From a Wife Who Chose to Stay<\/em>. That gives you a hint of what it is about, and the book is called <em>Waiting For His Heart<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you\u2019ve already shared with us, this week, about your relationship with Mark. You guys dated for five years before you got married. You knew, in the midst of that, that he drank with his friends\u2014didn\u2019t drink much around you. You also knew that his family was not as spiritually-centered as your family was. You guys were both church- goers. You were not living a committed life for the Lord, at that point; he wasn\u2019t either. Your marriage\u2014you began to have this drift. You had three kids in the first three years of marriage. Life gets busy. You\u2019re at home. He\u2019s working. You start to isolate. He starts drinking a little more. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He starts slipping deeper and deeper into alcoholism. At what point, did you let others into the story\u2014where you said, \u201cWe\u2019ve got a problem here, and we need help\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Probably about year eight, nine, ten\u2014I waited too long. I don\u2019t know why I\u2014I think some women, when they read Proverbs 31and are taught they need to respect their husband\u2014I think sometimes, they mistake that as being secretive or that nothing should be wrong about your husband. You\u2019re afraid to share. You\u2019re afraid you\u2019re going to disrespect him. And I think there is a measure of your own pride\u2014that, \u201cThis really is going on in our home.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when I did finally reach out, in the church community, I was so glad that I did because, not only did others <em>reveal<\/em> that they struggled, too, but I got <em>sound counsel<\/em> and help. Finally, I had people praying for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, how did it happen? I mean, did you share with a small group of women? Did you share with your pastor? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I shared with one woman. I shared with one woman, who I had known for years and years, over the phone one day. I felt like I could trust this woman because I was making myself very vulnerable here. I felt like I had to be cautious. I didn\u2019t want to tell just anybody\u2014who I was afraid would tell so and so, and tell so and so, and not make it a prayer event but a gossip event. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, my main concern, at this point in time, was being trustworthy. I knew that she was placing her trust in the Lord, and I had watched her growth over the years. But it started with that one woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And was it an impulse to share with her? In the middle of a conversation, did you just think, \u201cI\u2019m going to tell her,\u201d or had you been planning and plotting? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Planning, thinking, and praying. One day, I picked up the phone and dialed. That initial contact with someone\u2014anyone\u2014just knowing, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s <em>okay<\/em> to share,\u201d then, led to sharing it a little more. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Describe the conversation. When you picked up the phone and dialed and she answered, what did you say? Describe what your marriage was like and what you would have told her, at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I think I just blurted it out. I think, because I was so fearful, I just kind of wanted to get it over with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Blurted out, \u201cWe\u2019re in trouble\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Just blurted it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Blurted out what? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> \u201cMark is drinking too much, and I can\u2019t take it anymore,\u201d\u2014just very simple\u2014basic. I was, emotionally, just so fragmented, at this point\u2014didn\u2019t know where to turn. Although I was seeking the Lord and in studies, I had not yet, like I said, understood the <em>value<\/em> of community\u2014the <em>value<\/em> of reaching out. Once I did that\u2014and it was safe\u2014it was safe. I tested the waters with her\u2014it was okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It was life-giving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was life-giving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> If you hadn\u2019t done that, do you think you\u2019d be sitting here today? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Absolutely not; absolutely not. I can\u2019t imagine where I\u2019d be. I think I\u2019d be a very embittered woman. <br><br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I want our listeners to hear. There is a tendency, when we get in trouble, and it\u2019s\u2014I don\u2019t know if it is\u2014shame, guilt, wanting to keep the pretense up, make others feel good about us\u2014but we don\u2019t want to drop our guard and find that safe person\u2014to invite them into our struggle and say: \u201cCould you help us? I\u2019m sinking. I\u2019m going down for the third time.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you know what? I like what Pastor Matt Chandler says in Dallas. At their church, routinely, he will say about their church: \u201cIt\u2019s okay not to be okay here. It\u2019s not okay to stay there, but it is okay not to be okay.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think a lot of us get to church, and we don\u2019t feel like it is okay not to be okay. If I told you what\u2019s really going on in my marriage\u2014in my family, with my husband \/ with my wife\u2014if I told you that, I\u2019d get shoved over into a corner. I\u2019d be the anomaly rather than just a fellow struggler. I think that\u2019s part of the culture that causes people to say, \u201cI\u2019m not going to admit that there is anything going on in my relationship.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> The shame paralyzes us. Unfortunately, my husband had that same perception of the church when he\u2019d walk in: \u201cEverybody has got their lives together. These husbands are great. They\u2019re doing what they\u2019re supposed to be. I\u2019m a loser. I can\u2019t even get through life without drinking. I\u2019m letting my wife down, letting my kids down. I don\u2019t even <em>belong<\/em> here.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. I had a guy\u2014a recovering alcoholic\u2014who was coming to our church\u2014who said to me, at one point\u2014he said, \u201cWhen I first came to the church, I thought, \u2018I wonder if they\u2019ll let guys like me even be a member here,\u2019\u201d because he thought, \u201cEverybody else is so different than me, given my background and what I\u2019ve struggled with.\u201d What he found was\u2014no\u2014we\u2019ve all got the issues. We\u2019ve all got sin patterns in our lives and stuff we wrestle with. The more we can be transparent about that, the healthier we can get. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes, you\u2019re right. We want everything wrapped up, prettied up, and neat and tidy. That\u2019s what I discovered\u2014that, \u201cWait a minute! That fairy-tale image I had of marriage, or men making me happy, or my man making me happy\u2014that\u2019s a lie from the enemy, and a very dangerous lie.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, once I discovered that my true happiness would come from the contentment of pursuing and knowing the Lord, intimately\u2014then, that gave me hope.\u00a0 But it also, in a sense, left my husband in the dust because, as I pursued Him, Mark just felt more and more ashamed and more and more paralyzed. So, I had to be very careful\u2014although I had, at this point, started reaching out\u2014I had to be very careful about who I was keeping company with\u2014who I was receiving counsel from\u2014because, unfortunately, even in the church, you will hear: \u201cLeave and divorce them. Move on. It\u2019s time. It\u2019s\u201d\u2014whatever. His sin was blatant. My sins weren\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s what I\u2019m wondering. When you had this courageous phone call with this friend and said: \u201cMark is drinking. I don\u2019t know if I can handle it.\u201d What kind of counsel did you get? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Well, she was just being a friend and being understanding. She was just affirming my sorrow\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> \u2014more than anything. I barely tested the waters. She\u2014I would say, spiritually, we were almost at the same level of maturity. So, I just needed a friend to say, \u201cIt\u2019s going to be okay.\u201d <br><br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did you start getting people who would come up to you and say, \u201cI think you need to leave\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Well, over the years, it\u2019s kind of like what happened because, as I went to the church\u2014went to the pastors, went to the elders\u2014I would not let anyone forget that they were supposed to be praying for my husband. I was relentless in asking for prayer for him. I didn\u2019t disrespect him. I didn\u2019t just speak it to anyone; but I knew if they were a firm believer, I wanted them to pray for me\u2014\u2014pray for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs time went on and as they saw, sometimes, my weariness\u2014my children\u2019s weariness\u2014I mean, when you\u2019re talking two decades, sometimes, people will say, \u201cYou know, maybe, it\u2019s time just to let that go, maybe\u2014you\u2019re going to be okay.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Godly, spiritually-minded\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It did happen\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014people in the church? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> \u2014and it happened in the church, yes; and it did. I\u2019m sad to say that, but it does. Sometimes, people want to slap a Scripture on it. So often, I felt like I\u2014my family\u2014meaning me, and my children, and my husband\u2014were wreckage on the side of the road. We were bleeding to death; and people, within the church, often, would drive by, roll down their window, throw a Scripture out, slap a Band-Aid<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> on us, and drive on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, what should they have done instead of that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Well, sometimes, I think the perception of mine was because I was coming from sorrow and pain. Every once in a while, someone did pull over\u2014get out. What the wonderful thing is\u2014is that some of these women, who are my deep friends, would say, \u201cYou know, Joy, that attitude of yours has really got to go.\u201d Sometimes, I\u2019d say: \u201cWhy would you say that to me? Here I am, in sorrow.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are times when we validate the sorrow; and there are times we say: \u201cYour identity is not despair. God has more for you in this than your despair.\u201d We can become real comfortable in our pain. Women, who are married to men who struggle for years and years, can become real comfortable in that identity of being a woman of sorrow. Sometimes, you need someone to kick you in the backside a little bit to say: \u201cKeep going! Keep going!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is interesting because what I\u2019m hearing you say is that, as you sat, women would come and sit with you\u2014like Job\u2019s counselors would come\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and sit. They\u2019d just sit, and they\u2019d listen. They\u2019d sorrow with you; but then, they would kindly, and gently, and carefully, and compassionately say, \u201cLet\u2019s talk about you.\u201d They would force you back to the only thing that you could manage, and control, and have any influence over\u2014and that\u2019s your attitude, your actions, and your behaviors. \u201cThat was helpful,\u201d\u2014is what you are saying? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was helpful. Now, it was difficult, at times, to receive. There were times that I didn\u2019t want to receive it; but then, there were times when I was more open\u2014my heart was more pliable. But once I began to be willing to look at <em>me<\/em>:\u201cWait a minute! Maybe, this isn\u2019t all Mark. Maybe, I do have quite a bit to contribute, here, in the deterioration of our relationship.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod began to reveal to me\u2014just the <em>ugliness<\/em>, the <em>vileness<\/em>, the <em>evilness<\/em> of my self-centeredness, of my desire for the happiness rather than holiness, of being fear- driven\u2014which caused so much of my control and <em>my<\/em> <em>right<\/em> theology. It\u2019s like my theology had shifted\u2014like: \u201cGod, I know you are Creator of the universe. I know that You spoke the creation, and even me, into being; but do you see me and my sorrow?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had to get a right theology, and perspective of who God is, and who I am, in Him. That\u2019s what helped bring on more compassion for my husband and the bigger realization that I\u2019m not battling flesh alone\u2014I\u2019m battling against the principalities of darkness. This is spiritual warfare. That helped me get a right perspective\u2014a healthy perspective. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, therefore, I could make wise choices. I would seek out wise counsel. I would respond in love, not <em>react<\/em>. Despair was no longer my identity. I was a daughter of the King. No matter what happened with my husband\u2014even if he never came around\u2014I knew I was going to be okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Joy, I think the counsel you are giving right now\u2014I think that\u2019s the essence of it. I really do think we have to see that God is in the storm. He is in the midst of our circumstances that we go through\u2014that we don\u2019t like\u2014and He does have lessons for us. It is important that we choose the right people to truly listen to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would just like to speak up, however, on behalf of those who do give bad counsel. There\u2019s a reason why. As we share what\u2019s really going on\u2014like you talk about\u2014what was taking place, on a Saturday, at your home\u2014as a friend listening, it\u2019s difficult not to think, \u201cYou know\u2014that dirty, no good, low down\u2014how could he do that?\u201d You understand why people give that counsel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reason I say that is\u2014if you\u2019re hearing that from somebody else\u2014be careful of rushing in with a conclusion that all the problem is on one person. Back to what you are saying, Joy, it really does take two to tango. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You were having a tango dance with your husband. Describe what was happening\u2014near the end of the downward spiral\u2014of what was taking place in your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He had totally pulled away. His drinking spiraled down and came to the point where he was drunk, all the time. He was functioning in that he could go to his job; but the moment he got off work, he began to drink. On weekends, it was\u2014it was just all over by the morning time. His frustration\u2014his internal struggles\u2014became so great that he was immensely angry. He was not a happy-go-lucky drunk, at all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe would rage and just come after you\u2014and not, necessarily, physically\u2014but with words\u2014 and just berate you and destroy you with his words. He had no self-control\u2014was making very poor choices, financially\u2014and put us in a difficult situation, with finances. The kids are terrified of him. They\u2019re walking on egg shells. They never know what kind of dad they\u2019re going to get. Their friends can\u2019t come over. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You describe him as stalking you, within the house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was like being a hunted animal. Late at night\u2014when he was drunk and your babies are in bed\u2014you know, by this time, they\u2019re teenagers; okay?\u2014young teenagers. But he would like\u2014I felt like a hunted animal. There was no place I could go where he wasn\u2019t going to follow me and just scream obscenities at me. You say, \u201cHow can you stay in that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne night\u2014at night, just a light bulb went off, \u201cWhat am I doing?\u201d One night\u2014I was lying in bed. He was so angry because I would not respond. I would never respond because he would just\u2014it would just make it worse. But one night, he came\u2014and he took the bed I was lying on\u2014and he just lifted it. I mean, he was just\u2014his adrenaline was going, and he was so angry. He just lifted the bed, and I toppled over. I climbed back into\u2014I didn\u2019t really know what to do, at this point. And he did it again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought: \u201cI\u2019m next. He\u2019s touching the thing that I\u2019m on. I am next! I can\u2019t do this anymore. I\u2019m putting myself in danger\u2014my children. They are watching this. What are they learning? This is not normal.\u201d I did not want them to think that it is. There were several nights before\u2014that we left, in the middle of the night\u2014went to a hotel or a friend\u2019s house. So, I had to make a decision to file for a legal separation from him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI sought wise counsel. We prayed about it; but for a year, we were legally separated. I refused to file a divorce. After that legal separation was up, he had every right to come home; and he did. After about six weeks, he was back to his old ways. I knew it wasn\u2019t going to change, and I had put myself into the same position. I was fearful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if I wasn\u2019t going to file anything against him\u2014I couldn\u2019t file another legal separation, in the state of Indiana. The only thing left was for me to leave. So, I took my kids one day; and we moved out. I felt like the Lord spoke to me and said, \u201cDon\u2019t take anything he\u2019s going to use.\u201d So, we just took our beds and dressers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> In the middle of the day, while he was at work? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> In the middle of the day\u2014we moved fast. I didn\u2019t even know where to go\u2014where to rent. I had no money; but I found a little rental house, out in the country\u2014way out in the country. I just trusted God to provide. I had two brothers\u2014and my sister showed up. We loaded up this truck. We didn\u2019t take very much, and we moved into there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor a while, he did not know where we were. I was fearful, when he would find out, what would happen. But he didn\u2019t do anything. He didn\u2019t act on it. He was angry and frustrated, but he did not show up at the door or cause any scenes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And the kids were with you on this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> The kids were with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They understood what was going on? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Well, by this time, my son is getting ready to leave for college. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> So, they\u2019re\u2014he\u2019s a young adult, and my daughters are in high school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were they saying, \u201cIt\u2019s about time we did this, Mom\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> They said, \u201cIf you don\u2019t move, we are.\u201d I mean, they\u2019re just\u2014\u201cWe can\u2019t do this anymore\u2014neither can you, Mom.\u201d So, we began\u2014for three years, we lived apart from him. That is where I saw the hand of God move, like never before, in my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly where God wanted you, at that point. It\u2019s not like He wanted you to experience all the evil you were experiencing\u2014or the kids\u2014but He wanted you to make a courageous step of faith and step away from that which was so destructive and provide some space between you and the kids\u2014and Mark, your husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I want our listeners to hear is, all the way through the broadcast today, Joy has repeatedly talked about wise counsel\u2014has talked about going and seeking prayerful wise counsel\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And community has been essential. I mean, that\u2019s a theme, here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Isolation is deadly here. And it could be physically deadly\u2014not just emotionally deadly to a marriage and to a family\u2014but it could be\u2014it could cost you your life. You need to let other people in on what\u2019s going on in your life. I know that\u2019s a step of faith; but as you pray about it\u2014as you don\u2019t do it impulsively\u2014but as you process it and ask God to raise up someone to be able to have the conversation with to say: \u201cHere\u2019s what we\u2019re experiencing. Help!\u201d\u2014and ask God to meet you, in the midst of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of the ways our listeners have been reaching out and helping others\u2014in their community or in their church\u2014has been by hosting an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video event. It\u2019s a Friday night\/Saturday video seminar that can be hosted, really, anywhere. You can host it wherever you have a screen and some speakers. A lot of folks have been doing it at church, but you can do it just about anywhere. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe cool thing about <em>The<\/em> <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> is that couples get a chance to hear from you\u2014from folks like Crawford Loritts, and Voddie Baucham, and Paul David Tripp, and Al Mohler, and Russell Moore. There\u2019s a long list of guys who are speaking on <em>The<\/em> <em>Art of Marriage<\/em>, but they also get to see what marriage transformation looks like as they hear couples share their stories, as they see some dramatic vignettes, as they get a chance to be immersed in the Scriptures for an extended period of time on a Friday night and a Saturday. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We are hoping that, over the next three months\u2014between now and the end of September\u2014there might be a thousand <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners who would say: \u201cI want to make a difference in the marriages around me\u2014in my community, in my church, even in my family. I\u2019ll host one of these <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> events and invite folks to come.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019ll do that\u2014if you\u2019ll call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY, and say, \u201cI\u2019ll host an event in our community,\u201d\u2014you give us the date and the location where you are going to do that\u2014we\u2019ll send you <em>The<\/em> <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> kit, at no cost\u2014the DVD\u2019s, workbook, the leader\u2019s guide\u2014everything you need so you can host one of these events. All we ask is that you cover the cost of shipping and handling. We\u2019ll send the complete kit out to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, all you have to do is call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Let us know the date and the location where the event is going to be hosted. If you have any questions, or if you need any help with your event, we\u2019ve got a team that\u2019s ready to help you. So, it\u2019s easy to do; and it is a powerful ministry opportunity for you and for others in your community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCall 1-800-FL-TODAY and say: \u201cI\u2019d be willing to host an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> event. My spouse and I would love to do that.\u201d Call and we\u2019ll send the kit out to you, absolutely free\u2014just cover the cost of the shipping and the handling\u2014and let us know the date and the location where you\u2019re hosting your <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> event. Then, pray with us\u2014that there might be more than a thousand of these events, over the next three months, in cities, all across the country\u2014that we can point people to. Now, when folks call us and say, \u201cIs there a place we can get help?\u201d we can point them to these <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> events, taking place, all across the country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me also encourage you\u2014when you go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com, get a copy of the book that Joy McClain has written about her marriage. It\u2019s called <em>Waiting For His Heart<\/em>. It tells her story, in more detail than we\u2019re able to feature here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. It\u2019s a book you may want to pass on to someone you know who is struggling in a marriage like this, as well. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy; or call 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, I want to say a quick word of thanks to those of you who help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We could not do what we do without you. Your financial support is what makes this daily program possible on your local station. We\u2019re grateful for the partnership we have with you. This week, if you are able to make a donation to support the ministry, we\u2019d love to send you a message from Dennis Rainey on audio CD\u2014a message where he talks about parents and teens\u2014how we can help our kids be prepared for the dangerous and deadly traps that are out there, in front of them. <br><br>Simply, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d, to make an online donation; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone, and ask for the CD from Dennis Rainey. Again, we\u2019re happy to send it out to you. And again, thanks for standing with us, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd be sure to be back with us again tomorrow. We\u2019re going to hear from Joy McClain about the transforming work God did in her husband, Mark\u2019s, life. We\u2019re going to hear about what led up to that transformation. Hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Justin Adams, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302760","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302760"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302760"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302760"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302760"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302760"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302760"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302760"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}