{"id":302759,"date":"2013-06-17T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2013-06-17T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/lessons-from-a-wife-that-chose-to-stay\/"},"modified":"2013-06-17T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2013-06-17T15:00:00","slug":"lessons-from-a-wife-that-chose-to-stay","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/lessons-from-a-wife-that-chose-to-stay\/","title":{"rendered":"Lessons From a Wife That Chose to Stay"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>He was her knight in shining armor.  At least until they married.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-17.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.18M","filesize_raw":"25356589","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2861],"tags":[4837],"podcast_series":[7953],"cwp_profile":[9306],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302759","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-spiritually-mismatched","tag-troubled-marriage","podcast_series-waiting-for-his-heart","cwp_profile-joy-mcclain","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302759\/lessons-from-a-wife-that-chose-to-stay","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302759\/lessons-from-a-wife-that-chose-to-stay","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"sVnJ4KLbQp\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/lessons-from-a-wife-that-chose-to-stay\/\">Lessons From a Wife That Chose to Stay<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/lessons-from-a-wife-that-chose-to-stay\/embed\/#?secret=sVnJ4KLbQp\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Lessons From a Wife That Chose to Stay&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"sVnJ4KLbQp\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-17.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-17.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Like most young women, Joy McClain got married with high expectations of what lay ahead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I had that little-girl perception of marriage\u2014that it\u2019s a fairy tale\u2014that your knight in shining armor would swoop in, throw you on his white horse, and that stallion and you would run off into the sunset together. Life would be so good! But I learned that that\u2019s not the case.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, June 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll hear today what caused Joy McClain\u2019s marital dreams to begin to fade. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Thanks for joining us. There are seasons, I think, in every marriage, that are times of perseverance. Even good marriages have seasons\u2014MaryAnn and I have had seasons where we just kind of persevered when\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You just didn\u2019t quit!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; when things weren\u2019t happy\u2014for whatever reason.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It could be my attitude; it could be her attitude. It could be the mixture of the two\u2014the perfect storm coming together\u2014but you just say, \u201cOkay, we\u2019ll get through this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, when that season dominates the marriage, that\u2019s when you start to lose hope. That\u2019s where\u2014I mean, it is one thing to persevere over a hard weekend\u2014it is another thing to persevere for decades.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It is. As you were talking, Bob, I had a passage of Scripture I was going to turn to and I thought, \u201cNo, that\u2019s not it because there\u2019s one that\u2019s better to share with our listeners to kind of kick off our broadcast today\u2014Galatians, Chapter 6.\u201d There are listeners who need to hear this passage. Paul says, \u201cAnd let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up.\u201d He goes on to say, \u201cSo then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone and especially to those who are of the household of faith.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, it\u2019s another thing when the household you\u2019re living in has someone you\u2019re living with\u2014who is contrary and difficult to live with. In fact, maybe, at points, feels impossible to live with. If that\u2019s you, we\u2019ve got a story that we want to share with you that I think is going to bring some encouragement, some hope, and give you some direction as you persevere\u2014as Bob was talking about\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJoy McClain joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Joy, welcome to our broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Thank you for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Joy is a listener to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014been listening since day one. Tell Bob what your favorite broadcast is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> [Laughing] I had to share this with you because it wasn\u2019t something <em>profound<\/em> or heart-wrenching. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, come on!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was the granny camp. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Granny camp!?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The program where we talked about a grandmother and a grandfather having camp for their grandkids?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes! Yes. It was\u2014I never laughed so hard. She was great. She could do stand-up. She was wonderful!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She could! Are you a grandmother?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I am! First time, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So you haven\u2019t starting granny camp yet?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> No; he\u2019s only seven months old.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, first of all, we\u2019re grateful that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>You\u2019ve also been to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Maybe, we\u2019ll talk about that a little bit later. You\u2019re a writer, a teacher of the Scriptures, a speaker, a counselor. You\u2019ve been married to your husband Mark since 1985. You have four children and live in Greenwood, Indiana. You\u2019ve written a book called <em>Waiting For His Heart: Lessons From a Wife Who Chose to Stay.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo you\u2019ve had some seasons of perseverance. It didn\u2019t start out that way. You write about your husband as though he were a knight in shining armor?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes, I did. I had that little-girl perception of marriage\u2014that it\u2019s a fairy tale\u2014that your knight in shining armor would swoop in, throw you on his white horse, and that stallion and you would run off into the sunset together. Life would be so good! But I learned, by about week two, that that\u2019s not the case. It\u2019s not the case, at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow!\u2014week two? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes\u2014maybe, not week two\u2014maybe, month two or year two.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well still, it\u2019s pretty close to the beginning. When you and Mark were dating, did you see issues in him\u2014at the time\u2014that you thought, \u201cMan! This could be a challenge\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Oh, I think everybody sees issues. I think we don\u2019t want to look at them. I think that when you\u2019re young, and you\u2019re not very mature, and you\u2019re not looking through the lens of wisdom that age gives us, I think we have the propensity to not worry about things, or scoot things under the rug, or ignore some things\u2014some may be red flags\u2014even the way your spouse is brought up\u2014how it\u2019s different from you\u2014their family dynamics, their value system.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes those\u2014I know, now, are so <em>very<\/em> important; but, at that time, you\u2019re not thinking about all that, down the road: \u201cTen or twenty years, what\u2019s this going to look like?\u201d You\u2019re not thinking about that at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Looking back on your dating relationship with Mark, how long did you guys date?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Five years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, you should have known him!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, looking back from the perspective you\u2019re at today\u201427 years later\u2014what were some of the things you should have paid more attention to during the dating years that at least would have given you a heads-up that there was some rough water ahead?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Well, I think the dynamics of his family. My family was based around church and just the family unit. We grew up on a farm in the Midwest. His family had a lot of the same <em>values<\/em> that we had and similar backgrounds, but it was the <em>faith-based<\/em> connection that was lacking. That is the main thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHis sense of independence\u2014which later, would be difficult for him to identify with God and being dependent upon the Lord\u2014would be something he would struggle with. I would look back, saying: \u201cGosh! I really admired his independence.\u201d Yet, it was kind of a sense of pride that kept him from fully surrendering. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It has been said that love is blind\u2014that\u2019s what we experience when we date\u2014but marriage is an eye-opener. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I would agree with that statement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> When were your eyes opened? Was there an event? You mentioned week two, month two, year two\u2014was there an event, where you went, \u201cThis is not exactly what I bargained for\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I remember that moment. I was expecting our third child. We had our kids close together and rapidly. Within the second year of marriage, we were having our first\u2014our son. In three years and three months, we had three kids. That\u2019s filling your quiver quickly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I saw the deterioration of his ability to handle the stress. I know for a man\u2014I\u2019m not a man, but I can only<em> imagine<\/em> what it\u2019s like\u2014that financial burden, as I\u2019m home with them\u2014the stress of your tired wife, and all these kids, and all the demands that has. I just started to see him pull away.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So there are guys who hide\u2014they pull away\u2014and guys who hurl\u2014those who lash out. Mark retreated.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He retreated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What did he retreat to?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He hid. He just kind of disappeared. When I needed his help, he wasn\u2019t always there. I think he would <em>find<\/em> something to do\u2014something\u2019s broken, a car needs to be worked on. You know, there was always something to be <em>done<\/em>. He just wasn\u2019t available. He didn\u2019t <em>engage, emotionally<\/em>. He began to pull back a bit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Had drinking been a part of his life when you guys were dating?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was a part of his life, but not a part of <em>our life<\/em>. That is something that he did mostly with his friends\u2014like his buddies from high school. I really wasn\u2019t around him when he drank. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You <em>knew<\/em> it was happening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I knew of it; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But you never saw any ill effect of it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> If you were to ask me, then, if my husband\u2014or my boyfriend\u2014had a\u2026. I would say, \u201cAbsolutely not!\u201d He would drink just enough to ease, to medicate, to check out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There was an additional event that occurred around the same time. Your cousin died, along with her twins. All of that was used by God, in your life, to bring you to a conclusion. Share that story with our listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Absolutely. My cousin had married a woman so godly\u2014such a beautiful person inside and out. She had a three-year-old son and was expecting twins. When she was nine months pregnant, she was hospitalized, as some women are when they have multiples.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was a mistake, by the hospital, in medication. She actually died. They rushed her to the OR to try to save the babies, and it was too late. They had died, too. Here, she had a perfect, full-term; and all three were lost. My cousin, who had a three-year-old son, had to bury his wife and his newborn children. I watched his faith. I watched him continually <em>still<\/em> give credit and glory to God for anything good in his life and for getting him through those hard times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I experienced that and watched my cousin just\u2014it was such a heart-wrenching thing\u2014I got on my knees, on my living room floor. Right then, I surrendered <em>everything<\/em>. I surrendered my marriage because I saw that we were going to have some hard times ahead of us: \u201cIt\u2019s coming. The storm is brewing on the horizon.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMore than anything, my soul had been crying out for hope. My hope was in the Lord; it was not in my husband. It was not how my husband could fulfill me, which is\u2014when I married him, I thought that was his job\u2014to make me happy! \u201cIt\u2019s your job!\u201d And he failed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, what did your husband think of this new man in your life, then? Jesus Christ is, now, your Lord\u2014your Master. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re growing in your relationship with Him. Did he applaud that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He did not. He went to church with me just to appease me\u2014just to make me be quiet, basically. But I began to study the Word and <em>long <\/em>for relationship\u2014for intimacy with God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If I had come to you in\u2014we\u2019ll say, year five of your marriage\u2014you\u2019ve got three kids, you\u2019ve come to faith, you\u2019re walking with the Lord, there\u2019s some relational tension between you and your husband\u2014if I had asked you to rate your marriage, on a scale of one to ten\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> About five years into it, I would have probably said a \u201cseven\u201d because he was still somewhat engaged, and he was willing to go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> conference. Back then, I think they were called the FamilyLife Conference. He was willing to go not to one, but to two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He showed up at church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Alright.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I think he recognized his struggles. I think he did not know what to do with them. He, obviously, was not ready to surrender.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did the \u201cseven\u201d start to become a \u201csix\u201d and then a \u201cfive\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I think just as the years ticked off. You know, by the time the kids were in late elementary and early junior high, he began to just really spiral down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was a timeframe\u2014when the kids became more independent\u2014when they were no longer in diapers, and you could kind of pick up and go, and they\u2019re a little more independent\u2014he really did engage. He became a coach for my son. He got involved with the girls\u2019 activities\u2014actually, even, got involved in the church. So, there were some years when he did engage. He didn\u2019t fully surrender\u2014so a part of him was still thinking, \u201cI can kind of do what I want.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You describe that all of this was beginning to really produce a nasty cycle\u2014 where you were making demands of Mark, and he was drinking more heavily. You were making more demands, and he was drinking even more.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What would happen in those situations, pragmatically? Would he get angry? Would he take it out on the kids? How did he process his alcohol and his drunkenness?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I think my cycle is common to many women. You internalize it, and you don\u2019t say anything. By this time, I was really attempting to understand what it meant to be a godly wife\u2014to understand what it meant to place my hope in the Lord\u2014not in my husband. But yet, I have these heart wounds, and this trauma, and chaos in my own home. So, I internalize it, like many women do. One day, you just blow. You can\u2019t take it. So, you just spew out all of these things towards him; you know? You\u2019re not being effective. You\u2019re just reacting. You\u2019re not responding in love, and grace, and mercy, or even really dealing with the sin\u2014I would attack the person\u2014which we all know does not work!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, he would just respond and feel backed into a corner. He would be defensive. You just have this same cycle over and over. When I became a little more educated in alcoholism, I realized\u2014it is drunkenness\u2014that is the sin we need to call it\u2014is that he wasn\u2019t doing it to hurt me. For so many years, I thought, \u201cIf I was this,\u201d or, \u201cIf only this,\u201d or, \u201cMaybe, if this was different, maybe, he wouldn\u2019t drink.\u201d I remember being so relieved, thinking: \u201cWait! It\u2019s not me! It\u2019s him. It\u2019s his sin. It\u2019s something really, ultimately, between him and the Lord. I have my own sin to deal with, and that is control.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA woman\u2019s control stems from fear. So, my fear-driven control of him and circumstances\u2014I deal with this, with woman, all of the time, now. They\u2019re trying to control everything they can because the one thing they cannot control is their husband, and they are terrified! They\u2019re terrified\u2014\u201cThis is never going to change.\u201d They\u2019re terrified that they\u2019ll never be happy. They\u2019re terrified that their children with never know a father who is loving, who is affirming, who will teach them the ways of the Lord. So, we begin this cycle over and over. The kids\u2014although, I would never want to put them in the middle\u2014obviously, they\u2019re the innocent victims.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of the things I appreciated about your story, as you tell it, is that you acknowledge that you played a part in this spiral that was going on in your home. We have this tendency to look at the person\u2014who is retreating, drinking, not spiritually- centered\u2014and we go, \u201cWell, there\u2019s the problem!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve come to faith, and you\u2019re committed to godliness, and you\u2019re growing in your faith. We tend to say, \u201cThere\u2019s the problem, and you\u2019re not doing anything to add to it.\u201d You look back and say, \u201cNo, I was a contributor to the dysfunction that our marriage had become.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes! The book is full of the lessons that I learned because I did have a hand in the deterioration of our marriage. I was controlling, I was fearful, I didn\u2019t trust him and I let him know that, I did not affirm him, I was not his cheerleader, I was tearing him down. That was me. I was being unwise. Proverbs tells us we need to fear the Lord, and we need to seek wisdom. So much of the time, I was basing all that I was doing on my emotions\u2014how I felt. I was not driven by truth. I was run by my emotions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I had to learn to plant my hope in the Lord\u2014to go to the Word and to seek wise counsel. This was a long process. This didn\u2019t happen over a series of days or months. It took <em>years and years<\/em> for my heart to bend more toward truth rather than the hurt I was feeling and the devastation I was seeing in my kids! It\u2019s heart-wrenching and you just do not know, from day to day: \u201cWho am I going to get today? What man am I going to get?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We need to say, right here, just so our listeners know\u2014you had a conversation, last night, with your husband before you came here to do these interviews. What did he tell you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He said: \u201cTell them whatever you need to tell them! Tell them whatever God shows you to tell them.\u201d He\u2019s very open and honest. He\u2019s honest about all of his struggles. He wrote a chapter in the book. He\u2019s not afraid to say, \u201cMy story isn\u2019t over yet.\u201d None of our stories are over yet. None of us has arrived! He is willing. And both of us are. We want to be <em>real<\/em> because your listeners are <em>real<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> They are dealing with <em>real<\/em> issues\u2014and some, until the day they die.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I like what you did, in your book, about this. You were always personalizing it back to your own spiritual journey with Jesus Christ and what lessons He had in it for you: \u201cWhat was your responsibility that you needed to be obedient for?\u201d You had a moment, where you were walking along a beach, and you had a conversation with God. There was a very clear lesson for you, as you faced what was becoming a hopeless marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was becoming a hopeless marriage. It was New Year\u2019s Day\u2014I remember\u2014in San Diego. I was walking. I was there to do a children\u2019s event\u2014a worship event. I was going to fly home. As always, I started the first day of the year in prayer and in just seeking the Lord. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe very first thing on my list for that day was, \u201cHow am I going to get through another year of this?\u201d It did seem so hopeless. I just didn\u2019t know where to turn. The grief had <em>swallowed<\/em> me, at that point. As my eyes were closed, and I am walking out in the water, I hear, in my spirit, Him asking me, \u201cJoy, do you trust me?\u201d Three times, in my spirit, I hear Him say: \u201cJoy, do you trust Me? Do you trust Me with Mark?\u201d I answered: \u201cYes, Lord! I trust You,\u201d\u2014like Peter said, \u201cYes, Lord!\u201d\u2014\u201cI like You. I want to love You. I don\u2019t know how to do this. I don\u2019t know how to survive this! This is fragmenting me, as a person, and this is the person I\u2019m one with.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI felt like I had just been torn in two. But there, again, was another lesson. God says: \u201cThe Church is my bride. When she disobeys\u2014when she goes her way, when she is wayward\u2014I am torn in two.\u201d I could really begin to identify with the sorrow God feels for us when we walk away from Him. I began to have compassion for my husband because I recognized the bottom line, here, really wasn\u2019t our home. The bottom line was not our marriage, even. The bottom line was my husband\u2019s salvation. He was <em>severing<\/em> that tie with each day that he chose to walk farther and farther away from God. God, obviously, can redeem anything and anyone; but God was doing a work in my heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was the first of many times that I learned to be still before the Lord\u2014to go before Him\u2014to <em>wait <\/em>for Him. So many times, I would wait months, and months, and months, and years, and years for an answer to prayer. That taught me: \u201cGod is working. God is moving. I may not see it; but He is working and moving, all around me, all of the time.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s where I really like the subtitle of your book, <em>Lessons From a Wife Who Chose to Stay<\/em>. Undoubtedly, we\u2019re speaking to men and women who are in a marriage\u2014married to a spouse, who won\u2019t take responsibility; or who, perhaps, is having an affair; perhaps, addicted to something; perhaps, irresponsible. Their fear is the fear you had\u2014the fear of being stuck\u2014stuck for a lifetime\u2014and never experiencing really what you\u2019d dreamed and hoped for when that knight in shining armor asked you to get on the horse and go off to the castle together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tReally, the lesson you\u2019re illustrating, today, for all of us\u2014whether the issue is a big one\u2014whether the marriage is going to stay together or not\u2014or whether it\u2019s a smaller issue\u2014\u201cAre you going to trust God? Will you trust God that He knows what He is doing and He wants to use your circumstances to press you hard against Him so that you don\u2019t lose heart in well-doing? You hang in there. You persevere, and you keep loving; but you do it wisely.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. I\u2019m glad you said that because I was thinking\u2014and we\u2019re going to hear, as you share your story this week, Joy\u2014we\u2019re going to hear about some of the boundaries you put in place and some of the choices you made for protection. But I think the point is\u2014you\u2019ve got to persevere. You\u2019ve got to not become weary in well-doing. You\u2019ve got to respond in faith and obedience to what the Scriptures call you to. That\u2019s what you map out in the book that you\u2019ve written called <em>Waiting For His Heart. <\/em>We\u2019ve got copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy; or call 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just sitting here thinking, Dennis, about the number of couples who are showing up at church on Sunday mornings and there\u2019s something like this going on in their marriage. Maybe, it\u2019s not alcohol. Maybe, it\u2019s something else going on. Most people don\u2019t know it. It\u2019s tucked away. It\u2019s hidden. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But if they had an opportunity to do something to help their marriage, they\u2019d do it! Here, at FamilyLife, we\u2019re hoping that, over the course of the summer\u2014between now and the end of September\u2014we are hoping that some of our listeners will take a bold step and host an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> weekend in your local church or in your community so couples, like this, can get the help they need because you have no idea who\u2019s around you every day that could really benefit from some concentrated time\u2014looking at what the Scriptures have to say about building a strong, stable, godly marriage relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> is all about. It\u2019s a Friday night\/Saturday video-based event, where couples can get together at a church, at a lake house, wherever you want to host it. You can go through the material together and learn some practical biblical principles for how to make your marriage all that God intends for it to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is how serious we are about seeing these <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> events happening in communities, all across the country, this summer\u2014we are making available, this week, <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> six-session kit. We will send it to you free if you will call us and let us know when you\u2019re going to host an event and where you\u2019re going to host the event. We\u2019re going to ask you to pay for the cost of shipping the kit to you. If you\u2019ll pay for the cost of shipping, we\u2019ll send you the complete kit\u2014with the workbook, with the DVDs\u2014everything you need to host the event. We\u2019re just asking you to pick out a weekend\u2014secure a location. If you\u2019ll do that, we\u2019ll send you the kit. You can host one of these events. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, all you have to do is pay for the shipping and the handling. Now, if you\u2019d like to take advantage of this offer\u2014if you\u2019d like to get one of these <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> kits\u2014you need to call us. Our toll-free number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can find out more about <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em>, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; but if you want to get the kit sent to you, at no cost\u2014just cover the shipping and the handling\u2014call 1-800-358-6329; 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. Have the date and the location, where you\u2019re hosting the event, ready to go. We\u2019ll get you registered for your event and send the kit out to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me also mention <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> is now available, dubbed in Spanish. If there are folks in your congregation or if you\u2019re near a church that is a Spanish-speaking church, you can host an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> event, now, in English or in Spanish. Again, call 1-800-FL-TODAY to sign up and host an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> event. And pray with us, if you will, that we would see a thousand of these events take place over the summer\u2014in July, and August, and into September. We think that would be really powerful. We\u2019re just praying and asking God to make that happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear more about Joy and Mark McClain\u2019s story. We\u2019ll hear what happened when Joy decided to share with friends at church what was going on in her marriage. We\u2019ll find out how that worked for her. I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Justin Adams, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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was her knight in shining armor. At least until they married.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Like most young women, Joy McClain got married with high expectations of what lay ahead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I had that little-girl perception of marriage\u2014that it\u2019s a fairy tale\u2014that your knight in shining armor would swoop in, throw you on his white horse, and that stallion and you would run off into the sunset together. Life would be so good! But I learned that that\u2019s not the case.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, June 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll hear today what caused Joy McClain\u2019s marital dreams to begin to fade. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Thanks for joining us. There are seasons, I think, in every marriage, that are times of perseverance. Even good marriages have seasons\u2014MaryAnn and I have had seasons where we just kind of persevered when\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You just didn\u2019t quit!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; when things weren\u2019t happy\u2014for whatever reason.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It could be my attitude; it could be her attitude. It could be the mixture of the two\u2014the perfect storm coming together\u2014but you just say, \u201cOkay, we\u2019ll get through this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, when that season dominates the marriage, that\u2019s when you start to lose hope. That\u2019s where\u2014I mean, it is one thing to persevere over a hard weekend\u2014it is another thing to persevere for decades.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It is. As you were talking, Bob, I had a passage of Scripture I was going to turn to and I thought, \u201cNo, that\u2019s not it because there\u2019s one that\u2019s better to share with our listeners to kind of kick off our broadcast today\u2014Galatians, Chapter 6.\u201d There are listeners who need to hear this passage. Paul says, \u201cAnd let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up.\u201d He goes on to say, \u201cSo then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone and especially to those who are of the household of faith.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, it\u2019s another thing when the household you\u2019re living in has someone you\u2019re living with\u2014who is contrary and difficult to live with. In fact, maybe, at points, feels impossible to live with. If that\u2019s you, we\u2019ve got a story that we want to share with you that I think is going to bring some encouragement, some hope, and give you some direction as you persevere\u2014as Bob was talking about\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJoy McClain joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Joy, welcome to our broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Thank you for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Joy is a listener to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014been listening since day one. Tell Bob what your favorite broadcast is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> [Laughing] I had to share this with you because it wasn\u2019t something <em>profound<\/em> or heart-wrenching. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, come on!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was the granny camp. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Granny camp!?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The program where we talked about a grandmother and a grandfather having camp for their grandkids?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes! Yes. It was\u2014I never laughed so hard. She was great. She could do stand-up. She was wonderful!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She could! Are you a grandmother?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I am! First time, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So you haven\u2019t starting granny camp yet?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> No; he\u2019s only seven months old.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, first of all, we\u2019re grateful that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>You\u2019ve also been to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Maybe, we\u2019ll talk about that a little bit later. You\u2019re a writer, a teacher of the Scriptures, a speaker, a counselor. You\u2019ve been married to your husband Mark since 1985. You have four children and live in Greenwood, Indiana. You\u2019ve written a book called <em>Waiting For His Heart: Lessons From a Wife Who Chose to Stay.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo you\u2019ve had some seasons of perseverance. It didn\u2019t start out that way. You write about your husband as though he were a knight in shining armor?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes, I did. I had that little-girl perception of marriage\u2014that it\u2019s a fairy tale\u2014that your knight in shining armor would swoop in, throw you on his white horse, and that stallion and you would run off into the sunset together. Life would be so good! But I learned, by about week two, that that\u2019s not the case. It\u2019s not the case, at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow!\u2014week two? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes\u2014maybe, not week two\u2014maybe, month two or year two.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well still, it\u2019s pretty close to the beginning. When you and Mark were dating, did you see issues in him\u2014at the time\u2014that you thought, \u201cMan! This could be a challenge\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Oh, I think everybody sees issues. I think we don\u2019t want to look at them. I think that when you\u2019re young, and you\u2019re not very mature, and you\u2019re not looking through the lens of wisdom that age gives us, I think we have the propensity to not worry about things, or scoot things under the rug, or ignore some things\u2014some may be red flags\u2014even the way your spouse is brought up\u2014how it\u2019s different from you\u2014their family dynamics, their value system.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes those\u2014I know, now, are so <em>very<\/em> important; but, at that time, you\u2019re not thinking about all that, down the road: \u201cTen or twenty years, what\u2019s this going to look like?\u201d You\u2019re not thinking about that at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Looking back on your dating relationship with Mark, how long did you guys date?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Five years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, you should have known him!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, looking back from the perspective you\u2019re at today\u201427 years later\u2014what were some of the things you should have paid more attention to during the dating years that at least would have given you a heads-up that there was some rough water ahead?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Well, I think the dynamics of his family. My family was based around church and just the family unit. We grew up on a farm in the Midwest. His family had a lot of the same <em>values<\/em> that we had and similar backgrounds, but it was the <em>faith-based<\/em> connection that was lacking. That is the main thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHis sense of independence\u2014which later, would be difficult for him to identify with God and being dependent upon the Lord\u2014would be something he would struggle with. I would look back, saying: \u201cGosh! I really admired his independence.\u201d Yet, it was kind of a sense of pride that kept him from fully surrendering. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It has been said that love is blind\u2014that\u2019s what we experience when we date\u2014but marriage is an eye-opener. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I would agree with that statement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> When were your eyes opened? Was there an event? You mentioned week two, month two, year two\u2014was there an event, where you went, \u201cThis is not exactly what I bargained for\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I remember that moment. I was expecting our third child. We had our kids close together and rapidly. Within the second year of marriage, we were having our first\u2014our son. In three years and three months, we had three kids. That\u2019s filling your quiver quickly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I saw the deterioration of his ability to handle the stress. I know for a man\u2014I\u2019m not a man, but I can only<em> imagine<\/em> what it\u2019s like\u2014that financial burden, as I\u2019m home with them\u2014the stress of your tired wife, and all these kids, and all the demands that has. I just started to see him pull away.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So there are guys who hide\u2014they pull away\u2014and guys who hurl\u2014those who lash out. Mark retreated.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He retreated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What did he retreat to?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He hid. He just kind of disappeared. When I needed his help, he wasn\u2019t always there. I think he would <em>find<\/em> something to do\u2014something\u2019s broken, a car needs to be worked on. You know, there was always something to be <em>done<\/em>. He just wasn\u2019t available. He didn\u2019t <em>engage, emotionally<\/em>. He began to pull back a bit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Had drinking been a part of his life when you guys were dating?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was a part of his life, but not a part of <em>our life<\/em>. That is something that he did mostly with his friends\u2014like his buddies from high school. I really wasn\u2019t around him when he drank. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You <em>knew<\/em> it was happening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I knew of it; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But you never saw any ill effect of it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> If you were to ask me, then, if my husband\u2014or my boyfriend\u2014had a\u2026. I would say, \u201cAbsolutely not!\u201d He would drink just enough to ease, to medicate, to check out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There was an additional event that occurred around the same time. Your cousin died, along with her twins. All of that was used by God, in your life, to bring you to a conclusion. Share that story with our listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Absolutely. My cousin had married a woman so godly\u2014such a beautiful person inside and out. She had a three-year-old son and was expecting twins. When she was nine months pregnant, she was hospitalized, as some women are when they have multiples.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was a mistake, by the hospital, in medication. She actually died. They rushed her to the OR to try to save the babies, and it was too late. They had died, too. Here, she had a perfect, full-term; and all three were lost. My cousin, who had a three-year-old son, had to bury his wife and his newborn children. I watched his faith. I watched him continually <em>still<\/em> give credit and glory to God for anything good in his life and for getting him through those hard times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I experienced that and watched my cousin just\u2014it was such a heart-wrenching thing\u2014I got on my knees, on my living room floor. Right then, I surrendered <em>everything<\/em>. I surrendered my marriage because I saw that we were going to have some hard times ahead of us: \u201cIt\u2019s coming. The storm is brewing on the horizon.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMore than anything, my soul had been crying out for hope. My hope was in the Lord; it was not in my husband. It was not how my husband could fulfill me, which is\u2014when I married him, I thought that was his job\u2014to make me happy! \u201cIt\u2019s your job!\u201d And he failed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, what did your husband think of this new man in your life, then? Jesus Christ is, now, your Lord\u2014your Master. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re growing in your relationship with Him. Did he applaud that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He did not. He went to church with me just to appease me\u2014just to make me be quiet, basically. But I began to study the Word and <em>long <\/em>for relationship\u2014for intimacy with God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If I had come to you in\u2014we\u2019ll say, year five of your marriage\u2014you\u2019ve got three kids, you\u2019ve come to faith, you\u2019re walking with the Lord, there\u2019s some relational tension between you and your husband\u2014if I had asked you to rate your marriage, on a scale of one to ten\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> About five years into it, I would have probably said a \u201cseven\u201d because he was still somewhat engaged, and he was willing to go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> conference. Back then, I think they were called the FamilyLife Conference. He was willing to go not to one, but to two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He showed up at church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Alright.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I think he recognized his struggles. I think he did not know what to do with them. He, obviously, was not ready to surrender.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did the \u201cseven\u201d start to become a \u201csix\u201d and then a \u201cfive\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I think just as the years ticked off. You know, by the time the kids were in late elementary and early junior high, he began to just really spiral down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was a timeframe\u2014when the kids became more independent\u2014when they were no longer in diapers, and you could kind of pick up and go, and they\u2019re a little more independent\u2014he really did engage. He became a coach for my son. He got involved with the girls\u2019 activities\u2014actually, even, got involved in the church. So, there were some years when he did engage. He didn\u2019t fully surrender\u2014so a part of him was still thinking, \u201cI can kind of do what I want.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You describe that all of this was beginning to really produce a nasty cycle\u2014 where you were making demands of Mark, and he was drinking more heavily. You were making more demands, and he was drinking even more.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What would happen in those situations, pragmatically? Would he get angry? Would he take it out on the kids? How did he process his alcohol and his drunkenness?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I think my cycle is common to many women. You internalize it, and you don\u2019t say anything. By this time, I was really attempting to understand what it meant to be a godly wife\u2014to understand what it meant to place my hope in the Lord\u2014not in my husband. But yet, I have these heart wounds, and this trauma, and chaos in my own home. So, I internalize it, like many women do. One day, you just blow. You can\u2019t take it. So, you just spew out all of these things towards him; you know? You\u2019re not being effective. You\u2019re just reacting. You\u2019re not responding in love, and grace, and mercy, or even really dealing with the sin\u2014I would attack the person\u2014which we all know does not work!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, he would just respond and feel backed into a corner. He would be defensive. You just have this same cycle over and over. When I became a little more educated in alcoholism, I realized\u2014it is drunkenness\u2014that is the sin we need to call it\u2014is that he wasn\u2019t doing it to hurt me. For so many years, I thought, \u201cIf I was this,\u201d or, \u201cIf only this,\u201d or, \u201cMaybe, if this was different, maybe, he wouldn\u2019t drink.\u201d I remember being so relieved, thinking: \u201cWait! It\u2019s not me! It\u2019s him. It\u2019s his sin. It\u2019s something really, ultimately, between him and the Lord. I have my own sin to deal with, and that is control.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA woman\u2019s control stems from fear. So, my fear-driven control of him and circumstances\u2014I deal with this, with woman, all of the time, now. They\u2019re trying to control everything they can because the one thing they cannot control is their husband, and they are terrified! They\u2019re terrified\u2014\u201cThis is never going to change.\u201d They\u2019re terrified that they\u2019ll never be happy. They\u2019re terrified that their children with never know a father who is loving, who is affirming, who will teach them the ways of the Lord. So, we begin this cycle over and over. The kids\u2014although, I would never want to put them in the middle\u2014obviously, they\u2019re the innocent victims.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of the things I appreciated about your story, as you tell it, is that you acknowledge that you played a part in this spiral that was going on in your home. We have this tendency to look at the person\u2014who is retreating, drinking, not spiritually- centered\u2014and we go, \u201cWell, there\u2019s the problem!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve come to faith, and you\u2019re committed to godliness, and you\u2019re growing in your faith. We tend to say, \u201cThere\u2019s the problem, and you\u2019re not doing anything to add to it.\u201d You look back and say, \u201cNo, I was a contributor to the dysfunction that our marriage had become.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> Yes! The book is full of the lessons that I learned because I did have a hand in the deterioration of our marriage. I was controlling, I was fearful, I didn\u2019t trust him and I let him know that, I did not affirm him, I was not his cheerleader, I was tearing him down. That was me. I was being unwise. Proverbs tells us we need to fear the Lord, and we need to seek wisdom. So much of the time, I was basing all that I was doing on my emotions\u2014how I felt. I was not driven by truth. I was run by my emotions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> I had to learn to plant my hope in the Lord\u2014to go to the Word and to seek wise counsel. This was a long process. This didn\u2019t happen over a series of days or months. It took <em>years and years<\/em> for my heart to bend more toward truth rather than the hurt I was feeling and the devastation I was seeing in my kids! It\u2019s heart-wrenching and you just do not know, from day to day: \u201cWho am I going to get today? What man am I going to get?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We need to say, right here, just so our listeners know\u2014you had a conversation, last night, with your husband before you came here to do these interviews. What did he tell you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> He said: \u201cTell them whatever you need to tell them! Tell them whatever God shows you to tell them.\u201d He\u2019s very open and honest. He\u2019s honest about all of his struggles. He wrote a chapter in the book. He\u2019s not afraid to say, \u201cMy story isn\u2019t over yet.\u201d None of our stories are over yet. None of us has arrived! He is willing. And both of us are. We want to be <em>real<\/em> because your listeners are <em>real<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> They are dealing with <em>real<\/em> issues\u2014and some, until the day they die.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I like what you did, in your book, about this. You were always personalizing it back to your own spiritual journey with Jesus Christ and what lessons He had in it for you: \u201cWhat was your responsibility that you needed to be obedient for?\u201d You had a moment, where you were walking along a beach, and you had a conversation with God. There was a very clear lesson for you, as you faced what was becoming a hopeless marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joy:<\/strong> It was becoming a hopeless marriage. It was New Year\u2019s Day\u2014I remember\u2014in San Diego. I was walking. I was there to do a children\u2019s event\u2014a worship event. I was going to fly home. As always, I started the first day of the year in prayer and in just seeking the Lord. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe very first thing on my list for that day was, \u201cHow am I going to get through another year of this?\u201d It did seem so hopeless. I just didn\u2019t know where to turn. The grief had <em>swallowed<\/em> me, at that point. As my eyes were closed, and I am walking out in the water, I hear, in my spirit, Him asking me, \u201cJoy, do you trust me?\u201d Three times, in my spirit, I hear Him say: \u201cJoy, do you trust Me? Do you trust Me with Mark?\u201d I answered: \u201cYes, Lord! I trust You,\u201d\u2014like Peter said, \u201cYes, Lord!\u201d\u2014\u201cI like You. I want to love You. I don\u2019t know how to do this. I don\u2019t know how to survive this! This is fragmenting me, as a person, and this is the person I\u2019m one with.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI felt like I had just been torn in two. But there, again, was another lesson. God says: \u201cThe Church is my bride. When she disobeys\u2014when she goes her way, when she is wayward\u2014I am torn in two.\u201d I could really begin to identify with the sorrow God feels for us when we walk away from Him. I began to have compassion for my husband because I recognized the bottom line, here, really wasn\u2019t our home. The bottom line was not our marriage, even. The bottom line was my husband\u2019s salvation. He was <em>severing<\/em> that tie with each day that he chose to walk farther and farther away from God. God, obviously, can redeem anything and anyone; but God was doing a work in my heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was the first of many times that I learned to be still before the Lord\u2014to go before Him\u2014to <em>wait <\/em>for Him. So many times, I would wait months, and months, and months, and years, and years for an answer to prayer. That taught me: \u201cGod is working. God is moving. I may not see it; but He is working and moving, all around me, all of the time.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s where I really like the subtitle of your book, <em>Lessons From a Wife Who Chose to Stay<\/em>. Undoubtedly, we\u2019re speaking to men and women who are in a marriage\u2014married to a spouse, who won\u2019t take responsibility; or who, perhaps, is having an affair; perhaps, addicted to something; perhaps, irresponsible. Their fear is the fear you had\u2014the fear of being stuck\u2014stuck for a lifetime\u2014and never experiencing really what you\u2019d dreamed and hoped for when that knight in shining armor asked you to get on the horse and go off to the castle together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tReally, the lesson you\u2019re illustrating, today, for all of us\u2014whether the issue is a big one\u2014whether the marriage is going to stay together or not\u2014or whether it\u2019s a smaller issue\u2014\u201cAre you going to trust God? Will you trust God that He knows what He is doing and He wants to use your circumstances to press you hard against Him so that you don\u2019t lose heart in well-doing? You hang in there. You persevere, and you keep loving; but you do it wisely.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. I\u2019m glad you said that because I was thinking\u2014and we\u2019re going to hear, as you share your story this week, Joy\u2014we\u2019re going to hear about some of the boundaries you put in place and some of the choices you made for protection. But I think the point is\u2014you\u2019ve got to persevere. You\u2019ve got to not become weary in well-doing. You\u2019ve got to respond in faith and obedience to what the Scriptures call you to. That\u2019s what you map out in the book that you\u2019ve written called <em>Waiting For His Heart. <\/em>We\u2019ve got copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy; or call 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just sitting here thinking, Dennis, about the number of couples who are showing up at church on Sunday mornings and there\u2019s something like this going on in their marriage. Maybe, it\u2019s not alcohol. Maybe, it\u2019s something else going on. Most people don\u2019t know it. It\u2019s tucked away. It\u2019s hidden. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But if they had an opportunity to do something to help their marriage, they\u2019d do it! Here, at FamilyLife, we\u2019re hoping that, over the course of the summer\u2014between now and the end of September\u2014we are hoping that some of our listeners will take a bold step and host an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> weekend in your local church or in your community so couples, like this, can get the help they need because you have no idea who\u2019s around you every day that could really benefit from some concentrated time\u2014looking at what the Scriptures have to say about building a strong, stable, godly marriage relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> is all about. It\u2019s a Friday night\/Saturday video-based event, where couples can get together at a church, at a lake house, wherever you want to host it. You can go through the material together and learn some practical biblical principles for how to make your marriage all that God intends for it to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is how serious we are about seeing these <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> events happening in communities, all across the country, this summer\u2014we are making available, this week, <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> six-session kit. We will send it to you free if you will call us and let us know when you\u2019re going to host an event and where you\u2019re going to host the event. We\u2019re going to ask you to pay for the cost of shipping the kit to you. If you\u2019ll pay for the cost of shipping, we\u2019ll send you the complete kit\u2014with the workbook, with the DVDs\u2014everything you need to host the event. We\u2019re just asking you to pick out a weekend\u2014secure a location. If you\u2019ll do that, we\u2019ll send you the kit. You can host one of these events. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, all you have to do is pay for the shipping and the handling. Now, if you\u2019d like to take advantage of this offer\u2014if you\u2019d like to get one of these <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> kits\u2014you need to call us. Our toll-free number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can find out more about <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em>, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; but if you want to get the kit sent to you, at no cost\u2014just cover the shipping and the handling\u2014call 1-800-358-6329; 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d. Have the date and the location, where you\u2019re hosting the event, ready to go. We\u2019ll get you registered for your event and send the kit out to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me also mention <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> is now available, dubbed in Spanish. If there are folks in your congregation or if you\u2019re near a church that is a Spanish-speaking church, you can host an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> event, now, in English or in Spanish. Again, call 1-800-FL-TODAY to sign up and host an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> event. And pray with us, if you will, that we would see a thousand of these events take place over the summer\u2014in July, and August, and into September. We think that would be really powerful. We\u2019re just praying and asking God to make that happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear more about Joy and Mark McClain\u2019s story. We\u2019ll hear what happened when Joy decided to share with friends at church what was going on in her marriage. We\u2019ll find out how that worked for her. I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Justin Adams, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302759","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302759"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302759"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302759"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302759"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302759"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302759"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302759"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}