{"id":302750,"date":"2013-06-04T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2013-06-04T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/becoming-good-soil\/"},"modified":"2013-06-04T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2013-06-04T15:00:00","slug":"becoming-good-soil","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/becoming-good-soil\/","title":{"rendered":"Becoming Good Soil"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Patrick Morley talks about a few good men who became blessings to those around them.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-04.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"21.58M","filesize_raw":"22627915","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2827],"tags":[5285],"podcast_series":[7949],"cwp_profile":[3071],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302750","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-repentance","tag-good-men","podcast_series-man-alive","cwp_profile-patrick-morley","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302750\/becoming-good-soil","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302750\/becoming-good-soil","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"1t1P2jhPIc\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/becoming-good-soil\/\">Becoming Good Soil<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/becoming-good-soil\/embed\/#?secret=1t1P2jhPIc\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Becoming Good Soil&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"1t1P2jhPIc\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-04.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-04.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Men tend to steer away from deep relationships with other guys. Patrick Morely says most men don\u2019t want to be known; and they don\u2019t want to know other guys all that well, either.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong> I have a friend who applied for a job at Homeland Security. An FBI Agent called me to do a background check. He came by. He was very nervous, asking me questions about my friend. Then, a couple minutes into it, he said, \u201cHave you ever been in his home?\u201d I said, \u201cWell, of course, I have.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou could see him kind of visibly relax. He said: \u201cI have been with hundreds and hundreds of people\u2014checking out references\u2014who always tell me that they\u2019re really close friends with somebody\u2014but what I find is, usually, the case\u2014is they can\u2019t even tell me the most basic information about the person that they\u2019re supposed to be this close friend with. But I\u2019ve learned, that if someone has been in somebody else\u2019s home, then, that\u2019s a pretty good litmus test for whether or not they\u2019re really friends.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, June 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Patrick Morely joins us today to talk about how we break down the barriers that divide men from other men. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. When I got a copy of the book that we\u2019re going to be talking about today\u2014the book, <em>Man Alive<\/em>, by Patrick Morely, who is back with us on <em>FamilyLife Today\u2014<\/em>welcome back, Pat.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Nice to have you here. Here\u2019s this guy\u2014on top of the mountain\u2014with his\u2014he\u2019s got his arms outstretched. I have to tell you\u2014it reminded me\u2014there\u2019s a scene in the <em>Stepping Up\u2122<\/em> video series, where we show a guy climbing a mountain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it\u2019s, actually, a boy that starts climbing a mountain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s a boy who starts climbing a mountain. Along the way, you see, as he gets up the side of the mountain\u2014he gets a little older, each step of the way\u2014until he gets to the top\u2014and he\u2019s white-haired.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow! He must have been really slow. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That wasn\u2019t what we had in mind. We wanted to show process\u2014that there\u2019s a stepping up process, and courage needed, in terms of scaling a rock face\u2014to be able to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Pat Morely is a good friend. He has written a book called <em>Man Alive.<\/em> He is the President, as many of our listeners know, of Man in the Mirror Ministries. He and his wife Patsy have been married for more than 40 years\u2014two married children, four grandchildren. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou tell a story, at the beginning of this book. The reason I like this story\u2014<em>I love<\/em>\u2014<em>I love<\/em> stories of great courage. There\u2019s something about a story of great courage that just causes all of us, men and women, causes us to be\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 To rise up!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We do. We do. Tell them about the guy in the red bandana.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, that\u2019s a great story. Well, when reports began to come from the survivors of the World Trade Center disaster, several people mentioned a young man\u2014who appeared out of the smoke and the horror\u2014and led them to safety. Who this young man was, they didn\u2019t know; but this they all said\u2014they remembered that, wrapped around his mouth and his nose, was a red bandana. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor 56 minutes, what he would do is\u2014he would find little groups of survivors that had huddled together. Then, he would say: \u201cI found a stairwell. Follow me. I will lead you to safety.\u201d He would take a group\u2014he took one group to the stairwell. One woman had been badly injured. He picked her up, put her on his back, carried her down 15 flights of stairs, put her down, encouraged the others to keep going, and then he went back upstairs. When he arrived, he found a woman, sitting on a radiator, who had been badly injured. He said: \u201cFollow me. Let\u2019s gather up some other survivors, and I\u2019ll get you to safety.\u201d Then, he got them started down. Then, he disappeared back upstairs and was never heard from again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, six months later, the story began to emerge, when his remains were found, intact\u2014along with firefighters\u2014in a makeshift command center that had been put together in the lobby of the south tower. His name was Welles Crowther. He was 24 years of age. He was a day-trader at an equities firm, Sandler O\u2019Neill and Partners, on the 104<sup>th<\/sup> floor of the south tower. He was a wonderful young man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I heard the story, I was overwhelmed. I got in touch with his parents, and we became friends. I\u2019ve learned a lot of things about him. He took volunteer firefighter training at 16. He was the kid on the hockey team who would always feed the puck to the kid who had never scored a goal, hoping that the boy would get his first goal. He carried pocket change to give to beggars, on his way to work. He was attending a little Episcopal church, not far from the site of the World Trade Center disaster. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA few months before, he had told his mother and his father, \u201cYou know, I don\u2019t know just how much longer I can keep doing this.\u201d He said, \u201cMy real dream is to be a public servant and a firefighter.\u201d Then, on September 11, 2001, at the age of 24, Welles Crowther became, not only a public servant and a firefighter, but also a hero, because he was willing to go up when everybody else was coming down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And the thing that hit me about that story\u2014because it\u2019s really what your book is about\u2014<em>Man Alive<\/em>\u2014is you use that story and move on to challenge men to be men, who are men of the good soil. Jesus talked about four kinds of soil\u2014soil that produced nothing, soil that never produced much because it got choked out by weeds, rocky soil, etcetera\u2014but you believe men were made by God for that fourth soil. Jesus said 30-, 60-, and 100-fold fruit production. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just have to ask you\u2014as you\u2019ve talked to men, across the country\u2014you have a unique position, Pat. You\u2019ve probably talked to more men, personally, as well as publicly, obviously, than most any Christian leader in America today. What\u2019s keeping men today from being in that fourth soil\u2014from being 30-, 60-, and 100-fold men?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, there\u2019s no one right answer to that; but a few things, I think, are interesting to think about. When women have problems, they tend to move toward relationships; but when men have problems, they tend to move toward isolation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I am out speaking, inevitably, there will be a man, who\u2019s been hanging back, who wants to talk. I\u2019m thinking about a man named Tom in Nashville. He wanted to talk about his business\u2014that was in turmoil. It turned out he was very close to having to declare bankruptcy. It had put a tremendous strain on his marriage; and it didn\u2019t look like that was doing very well, either. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI listened for about 15 minutes. When he was completely done, I said, \u201cWell, Tom, could I ask you a couple questions?\u201d He said, \u201cSure.\u201d I said, \u201cFirst, let me ask you about your Bible reading habits.\u201d He kind of looked startled. Then, his chin fell to his chest. He sort of muttered, \u201cWell, to be honest with you, I haven\u2019t really been reading my Bible very much lately.\u201d I said: \u201cThat\u2019s okay. I understand. Let me ask you a second question. Who is your best friend, or do you have a group of guys that you meet together with\u2014doing life-on-life together?\u201d Again, he looked startled. Then, his shoulders drooped. He said, \u201cWell, frankly, I\u2019ve kind of withdrawn from all of my friends.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMen, if you\u2019re listening\u2014or women, if you\u2019re listening, and you have a man in your life\u2014you know this is true\u2014that our tendency is, when we have problems, we tend to withdraw and become isolated\u2014which makes us very vulnerable. In a global way, to answer your question, I really think that this is the biggest thing that is happening to guys\u2014is that they are withdrawing from God and from people that can help them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Pat, in the book, <em>Man Alive<\/em>, that you\u2019ve written, you\u2019re trying to help men deal with those things in their life that keep them from being fully alive\u2014from succeeding, as men. I think every guy knows that sense of: \u201cOkay, I\u2019m in my stride. I\u2019m where I\u2019m supposed to be.\u201d One of the things that you say, in the book, is that, in order to be in your stride, the significant relationships in your life have to be in order\u2014they have to be working for you; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, there\u2019s no question. First of all, if you\u2019re not in right relationship with God, you\u2019re not going to be in a right relationship anywhere else. Then, if you\u2019re not in right relationship with your wife\u2014if you\u2019re married\u2014that just spills over into everything. It just taints everything. In fact, guys who are going through marriage problems are among the least productive people in the world\u2014not to mention some of the saddest people in the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, what is the main thing that God is doing in the world? Well, I\u2019ll tell you what it is. The main thing that is <em>always<\/em> happening in the world is that God is sovereignly orchestrating all human events to bring us into right relationship with Him and right relationship with each other. That\u2019s what God is doing, and that\u2019s what God wants. Don\u2019t resist that. A lot of guys do resist that because they have ambitions to be somebody\u2014to make a name for themselves\u2014or maybe, they\u2019re caught in some kind of an addiction. The reality is that a lot of guys, because they are not walking with the Lord, their relationships are a mess.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was interested\u2014there is a diagnostic question that you use, in the book, to help guys think about, \u201cDo you really have good friends\u2014guys that you do life-on-life with?\u201d The question is all about guys who have been in your home. Why is that\u2014what\u2019s so telling about that\u2014do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, gosh! This is so interesting. I have a friend who applied for a job at Homeland Security. An FBI agent called me to do a background check on this guy. I said, \u201cFire away!\u201d He said, \u201cNo, I need to do it in person.\u201d So, he came by. He was very nervous, asking me questions about my friend. Then, a couple of minutes into it, he said, \u201cHave you ever been in his home?\u201d I said, \u201cWhy, of course, I have.\u201d You could see him kind of visibly relax\u2014so much so that I remarked about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe told me an interesting story. He said: \u201cI have been with hundreds and hundreds of people\u2014checking out references\u2014who always tell me that they\u2019re really close friends with somebody\u2014but what I find is, usually, the case\u2014is they can\u2019t even tell me the most basic information about the person that they\u2019re supposed to be this close friend with. They don\u2019t know the names of their children. They don\u2019t even know how many children they have. But I\u2019ve learned that if someone has been in somebody else\u2019s home, then, that\u2019s a pretty good litmus test for whether or not they\u2019re really friends.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re often saying: \u201cWell, yes, he\u2019s a good friend of mine. He\u2019s a good friend of mine.\u201d Actually, what we really mean is that we met them once; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 They\u2019re an acquaintance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Or, \u201cWe\u2019ve been focused on business together,\u201d because that can happen. You can have somebody you spend a lot of time with doing business stuff; but at the end of the day\u2014like you said\u2014if you said: \u201cWhat\u2019s his wife\u2019s name? How many kids does he have?\u201d I don\u2019t know much about him, personally. I just know about him on a utilitarian basis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s keep it real, too. I mean, guys, if you\u2019re listening, before we go off on somebody else, just ask yourself the same question. Somebody that you say is a real close friend of yours\u2014do you know how many children they have? Do you know their names? The reality is that most guys do not have deep friendships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Why is that? Why are we, as men, predisposed toward shallow, superficial relationships?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is the most clich\u00e9 possible answer I can come up with, I guess; but women, generally, tend to be more oriented to relationships. Men, generally-speaking, tend to be more oriented to tasks. That doesn\u2019t mean that women don\u2019t do tasks and men don\u2019t do relationships. Of course, they do. But the principle disposition of men is to be task-oriented\u2014to do the deal. That means that we keep it at the level of news, sports and weather; and then, we get on with the project at-hand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re good at the task\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014but we may not know how to do relationships. So, we may avoid them. It\u2019s a part of why we commissioned Bob, here a couple of years ago, to begin work on a video series called <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood\u2122<\/em>\u2014to get men together and to begin relating to other guys in small groups, where they could begin to connect with each other. We designed this so a guy\u2014all he has to do is raise his hand and say, \u201cI can carry on a conversation around a table.\u201d So, you know what? That guy can lead that small group. He can lead a group of men, plug in a video, show it on a screen, and maybe, have some\u2014as Bob likes to say\u2014order some wings.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right. Get the wings in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Get the wings out and start watching the video. Then, at the end of the video, begin to talk around some meaningful questions that will guide you into a conversation, where no longer are you the stray\u2014where the lion can seek to devour\u2014but you now can be a part of a protective herd, where you don\u2019t lose your identity. In fact, if anything, you gain more identity and more courage by being a part of a group.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPat, I know, because of your history, you\u2019re a big believer in small groups of men. You have a quote in your book\u2014I wrote it down, \u201cNever doubt the power of a small group.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. If someone was to ask me, \u201cWhat is the one thing that a man can do that would give him the greatest potential to be successful as a Christian?\u201d I would say: \u201cYou can\u2019t narrow it to one, but there are two things. Number one is that he would be in the Word of God for himself, on a regular basis; and then, secondly, that he would be doing life together with a few other guys, in a small group.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy that small group, I mean a small group that has a leader\u2014who has a vision to make disciples\u2014and a group who is digging into the Word of God because the Word of God\u2014that is what has the transformative power. At our Friday morning Bible study, we\u2019ve averaged four visitors a week for 27 years. I lead the first-time visitor\u2019s table. I always ask them, at the end, \u201cWhere are you on your spiritual journey today?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow many men do you think have said, \u201cI don\u2019t want to talk about it\u201d?\u2014Zero. Every single man, for 27 years, has wanted to share where he was on the spiritual journey. The reality is that men are hungry for relationships. They\u2019re hungry for meaningful conversation. So, if you can get yourself into a safe environment\u2014you have to give it some time to build some trust\u2014but once you do that, and begin to open up with the other guys\u2014Bob\u2014when we were off the air\u2014you were telling me about a group of guys, that you put together, who share very vulnerably\u2014but you set the pace for that. Then, once you did that\u2014then, they followed right along.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. What I found was that\u2014when they found they were in a safe place\u2014and that\u2019s where I think, with a lot of guys, they feel like: \u201cIs it really safe to be transparent? I would <em>love<\/em> to be able to be real with somebody; but, especially in a church environment, if I admit\u2014if I \u2018fess up to the fact that I\u2019m not as holy as I\u2019m supposed to be: \u201cI\u2019m going to get kicked out,\u201d or, \u201cAll I\u2019ll ever get to do is parking lot attendant, as a church responsibility,\u201d or, \u201cI just can\u2019t be real about my thoughts, my feelings, or my actions without getting busted.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I started the group by saying: \u201cOkay, let me tell you my story because all of us have one. All of us are on a progressive journey.\u201d Guys were like, \u201cOh, we\u2019re telling the real stuff about our lives?\u201d Then, they wanted to. They wanted, in a safe environment, to be able to say: \u201cThis is who I really am. If I can trust you guys to keep this information confidential\u2014between us, keep it in check and not hold it against me\u2014I\u2019ll go to battle with you.\u201d There was that sense, around the table.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong> Guys, if you\u2019re listening, the truth is that we are made for relationships. We\u2019re made for a relationship with God. We\u2019re made for a relationship with a woman. We\u2019re made for relationships with children. We\u2019re made for relationships with a handful of brothers, that we\u2019re doing life together with. If you stop and you think about it, you may be better at relationships than you think you are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob, back to that conversation the three of us were having\u2014you quoted James MacDonald about how a man needs to respond when another man spills his guts about some issue he\u2019s struggling with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 James MacDonald, when we were shooting the interview that we did for the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series\u2014I found out, during that conversation with him, that his doctoral thesis had been on the verse from James, Chapter 5, that says, \u201cConfess your sins one to another in order to be healed.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe applied that to men in ministry. One of the insights that he had\u2014he said, \u201cIf a brother ever opens up his heart to you and shares with you: \u2018This is what I\u2019m struggling with. This is what I\u2019ve done in my life that I\u2019m not proud of,\u2019\u201d he said, \u201cyou better be ready, as soon as that brother\u2019s done, to be equally vulnerable and transparent, or he won\u2019t go there again.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn other words, he has to know that if he\u2019s going to risk it, that you\u2019ll go there with him. James said, \u201cIf a guy says to you, \u2018Man, I\u2019ve always struggled with anger in my marriage,\u2019 and you say, \u2018Well, you know, here\u2019s how you fix that.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Whoops!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. Now, you\u2019re not going to be friends. Maybe, you\u2019ll feel better about yourself; but you and that guy aren\u2019t going to be friends. But if you say to him, \u201cYou know, for me, it\u2019s not been anger that\u2019s the issue; but I\u2019ve always struggled with passivity\u2014just checking out.\u201d Now, all of a sudden, that\u2019s where guys start to go, \u201cOkay, there\u2019s help here,\u201d because we confess our sins, one to another; and in that process, God starts to do the redeeming work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Last week\u2014just to illustrate what you\u2019re saying\u2014last week, I was with a businessman. We were on our way to a meeting. On the way, he said: \u201cYou know, my wife is really struggling\u2014feeling like, \u2018I don\u2019t match up.\u2019 She says, \u2018I just don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m meeting your expectations.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hadn\u2019t heard your illustration, Bob\u2014from James MacDonald\u2014but instead of giving some trite spiritual answer\u2014he\u2019s a good friend\u2014I said: \u201cYou know, Barbara and I have struggled with that, too. She\u2019s admitted to me, many times, \u2018You know, you just drive a hard bargain! You\u2019re a tough dude to satisfy\u2014to please!\u2019\u201d He said, \u201cReally; really?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, Dennis. I could have told you\u2014you were high-maintenance. You didn\u2019t need to have Barbara tell you that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 See, you\u2019re bitter because I said your books are being sold in a garage sale. You\u2019re no better, either! [Laughter] I know exactly what\u2019s taking place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re not the first guy who\u2019s told me about the garage sales\u2014trust me. Trust me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s because some of mine have been sold there, too. That\u2019s how I know they\u2019ve been sold.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes; but his were a quarter, and yours were only 15 cents.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Mine were a dime! Mine were a dime! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe challenge for men\u2014that I want to hear out of this is\u2014you know what? Grab a hold of Pat\u2019s book, grab a hold of <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em>\u2014the video series\u2014order some wings, and get some guys over to your home\u2014back to Pat\u2019s illustration. Get them out to, maybe, a church on Saturday morning\u2014five, six, seven of you\u2014or more, if you want to have more. Show the video. It\u2019s a 30-minute video that cuts to the chase. It\u2019s entertaining. It\u2019s funny. It\u2019s powerful. It\u2019s spiritual, and it will spawn all the conversation like we\u2019re talking about here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you know what? If somebody would like to <em>see<\/em> what we\u2019re talking about, this month, right here before Father\u2019s Day, we are making available copies of your book, <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood,<\/em> along with a DVD sampler that has Session One of the ten-week series on it. It also has the first half of Session One for the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video event resource, as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re sending out the book, and the sampler DVD, if folks will just call in and cover the cost of the shipping and the handling. The book and the DVD are free, essentially. All you have to do is cover the cost of shipping, and we\u2019ll get it out to you. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about how you can get Dennis\u2019s book, <em>Stepping Up<\/em>,and the sample DVD that comes with it. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order a copy of Patrick Morely\u2019s book, which is called <em>Man Alive<\/em>. We have that in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center, as well. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about Patrick\u2019s book; or call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, as most of our listeners know, <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported. We depend on hearing from folks, like you, in order to continue the work of this ministry. Your donations help to cover the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. This month, if you can help support the ministry with a donation, we\u2019d like to send you, as a thank-you gift, a message from Dennis\u2014a message presented, a number of years ago, at a football arena\u2014where he was talking to tens of thousands of guys about the important role a father plays in his son\u2019s life, helping him navigate his way through the traps of adolescence. The message is called <em>Turning Your Heart Toward Your Children<\/em>. The CD is our thank-you gift to you when you make a donation to help support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> this month.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click on the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d, and make your donation online; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can make your donation over the phone. Just ask for the CD from Dennis Rainey when you call in with your donation. We\u2019re happy to send it to you. We\u2019re grateful for your financial support. We appreciate hearing from you; and we appreciate your generosity, as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to encourage you to be back again with us tomorrow. Patrick Morely is going to be here again. We\u2019re going to hear about one of the most powerful moments in his life\u2014a moment with his dad that he will never forget, as long as he lives. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. Hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["21.58M"],"filesize_raw":["22627915"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302750.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302750.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Morley talks about a few good men who became blessings to those around them.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-06-04.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Men tend to steer away from deep relationships with other guys. Patrick Morely says most men don\u2019t want to be known; and they don\u2019t want to know other guys all that well, either.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong> I have a friend who applied for a job at Homeland Security. An FBI Agent called me to do a background check. He came by. He was very nervous, asking me questions about my friend. Then, a couple minutes into it, he said, \u201cHave you ever been in his home?\u201d I said, \u201cWell, of course, I have.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou could see him kind of visibly relax. He said: \u201cI have been with hundreds and hundreds of people\u2014checking out references\u2014who always tell me that they\u2019re really close friends with somebody\u2014but what I find is, usually, the case\u2014is they can\u2019t even tell me the most basic information about the person that they\u2019re supposed to be this close friend with. But I\u2019ve learned, that if someone has been in somebody else\u2019s home, then, that\u2019s a pretty good litmus test for whether or not they\u2019re really friends.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, June 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Patrick Morely joins us today to talk about how we break down the barriers that divide men from other men. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. When I got a copy of the book that we\u2019re going to be talking about today\u2014the book, <em>Man Alive<\/em>, by Patrick Morely, who is back with us on <em>FamilyLife Today\u2014<\/em>welcome back, Pat.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Nice to have you here. Here\u2019s this guy\u2014on top of the mountain\u2014with his\u2014he\u2019s got his arms outstretched. I have to tell you\u2014it reminded me\u2014there\u2019s a scene in the <em>Stepping Up\u2122<\/em> video series, where we show a guy climbing a mountain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it\u2019s, actually, a boy that starts climbing a mountain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s a boy who starts climbing a mountain. Along the way, you see, as he gets up the side of the mountain\u2014he gets a little older, each step of the way\u2014until he gets to the top\u2014and he\u2019s white-haired.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow! He must have been really slow. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That wasn\u2019t what we had in mind. We wanted to show process\u2014that there\u2019s a stepping up process, and courage needed, in terms of scaling a rock face\u2014to be able to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Pat Morely is a good friend. He has written a book called <em>Man Alive.<\/em> He is the President, as many of our listeners know, of Man in the Mirror Ministries. He and his wife Patsy have been married for more than 40 years\u2014two married children, four grandchildren. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou tell a story, at the beginning of this book. The reason I like this story\u2014<em>I love<\/em>\u2014<em>I love<\/em> stories of great courage. There\u2019s something about a story of great courage that just causes all of us, men and women, causes us to be\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 To rise up!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We do. We do. Tell them about the guy in the red bandana.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, that\u2019s a great story. Well, when reports began to come from the survivors of the World Trade Center disaster, several people mentioned a young man\u2014who appeared out of the smoke and the horror\u2014and led them to safety. Who this young man was, they didn\u2019t know; but this they all said\u2014they remembered that, wrapped around his mouth and his nose, was a red bandana. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor 56 minutes, what he would do is\u2014he would find little groups of survivors that had huddled together. Then, he would say: \u201cI found a stairwell. Follow me. I will lead you to safety.\u201d He would take a group\u2014he took one group to the stairwell. One woman had been badly injured. He picked her up, put her on his back, carried her down 15 flights of stairs, put her down, encouraged the others to keep going, and then he went back upstairs. When he arrived, he found a woman, sitting on a radiator, who had been badly injured. He said: \u201cFollow me. Let\u2019s gather up some other survivors, and I\u2019ll get you to safety.\u201d Then, he got them started down. Then, he disappeared back upstairs and was never heard from again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, six months later, the story began to emerge, when his remains were found, intact\u2014along with firefighters\u2014in a makeshift command center that had been put together in the lobby of the south tower. His name was Welles Crowther. He was 24 years of age. He was a day-trader at an equities firm, Sandler O\u2019Neill and Partners, on the 104<sup>th<\/sup> floor of the south tower. He was a wonderful young man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I heard the story, I was overwhelmed. I got in touch with his parents, and we became friends. I\u2019ve learned a lot of things about him. He took volunteer firefighter training at 16. He was the kid on the hockey team who would always feed the puck to the kid who had never scored a goal, hoping that the boy would get his first goal. He carried pocket change to give to beggars, on his way to work. He was attending a little Episcopal church, not far from the site of the World Trade Center disaster. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA few months before, he had told his mother and his father, \u201cYou know, I don\u2019t know just how much longer I can keep doing this.\u201d He said, \u201cMy real dream is to be a public servant and a firefighter.\u201d Then, on September 11, 2001, at the age of 24, Welles Crowther became, not only a public servant and a firefighter, but also a hero, because he was willing to go up when everybody else was coming down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And the thing that hit me about that story\u2014because it\u2019s really what your book is about\u2014<em>Man Alive<\/em>\u2014is you use that story and move on to challenge men to be men, who are men of the good soil. Jesus talked about four kinds of soil\u2014soil that produced nothing, soil that never produced much because it got choked out by weeds, rocky soil, etcetera\u2014but you believe men were made by God for that fourth soil. Jesus said 30-, 60-, and 100-fold fruit production. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just have to ask you\u2014as you\u2019ve talked to men, across the country\u2014you have a unique position, Pat. You\u2019ve probably talked to more men, personally, as well as publicly, obviously, than most any Christian leader in America today. What\u2019s keeping men today from being in that fourth soil\u2014from being 30-, 60-, and 100-fold men?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, there\u2019s no one right answer to that; but a few things, I think, are interesting to think about. When women have problems, they tend to move toward relationships; but when men have problems, they tend to move toward isolation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I am out speaking, inevitably, there will be a man, who\u2019s been hanging back, who wants to talk. I\u2019m thinking about a man named Tom in Nashville. He wanted to talk about his business\u2014that was in turmoil. It turned out he was very close to having to declare bankruptcy. It had put a tremendous strain on his marriage; and it didn\u2019t look like that was doing very well, either. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI listened for about 15 minutes. When he was completely done, I said, \u201cWell, Tom, could I ask you a couple questions?\u201d He said, \u201cSure.\u201d I said, \u201cFirst, let me ask you about your Bible reading habits.\u201d He kind of looked startled. Then, his chin fell to his chest. He sort of muttered, \u201cWell, to be honest with you, I haven\u2019t really been reading my Bible very much lately.\u201d I said: \u201cThat\u2019s okay. I understand. Let me ask you a second question. Who is your best friend, or do you have a group of guys that you meet together with\u2014doing life-on-life together?\u201d Again, he looked startled. Then, his shoulders drooped. He said, \u201cWell, frankly, I\u2019ve kind of withdrawn from all of my friends.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMen, if you\u2019re listening\u2014or women, if you\u2019re listening, and you have a man in your life\u2014you know this is true\u2014that our tendency is, when we have problems, we tend to withdraw and become isolated\u2014which makes us very vulnerable. In a global way, to answer your question, I really think that this is the biggest thing that is happening to guys\u2014is that they are withdrawing from God and from people that can help them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Pat, in the book, <em>Man Alive<\/em>, that you\u2019ve written, you\u2019re trying to help men deal with those things in their life that keep them from being fully alive\u2014from succeeding, as men. I think every guy knows that sense of: \u201cOkay, I\u2019m in my stride. I\u2019m where I\u2019m supposed to be.\u201d One of the things that you say, in the book, is that, in order to be in your stride, the significant relationships in your life have to be in order\u2014they have to be working for you; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, there\u2019s no question. First of all, if you\u2019re not in right relationship with God, you\u2019re not going to be in a right relationship anywhere else. Then, if you\u2019re not in right relationship with your wife\u2014if you\u2019re married\u2014that just spills over into everything. It just taints everything. In fact, guys who are going through marriage problems are among the least productive people in the world\u2014not to mention some of the saddest people in the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, what is the main thing that God is doing in the world? Well, I\u2019ll tell you what it is. The main thing that is <em>always<\/em> happening in the world is that God is sovereignly orchestrating all human events to bring us into right relationship with Him and right relationship with each other. That\u2019s what God is doing, and that\u2019s what God wants. Don\u2019t resist that. A lot of guys do resist that because they have ambitions to be somebody\u2014to make a name for themselves\u2014or maybe, they\u2019re caught in some kind of an addiction. The reality is that a lot of guys, because they are not walking with the Lord, their relationships are a mess.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was interested\u2014there is a diagnostic question that you use, in the book, to help guys think about, \u201cDo you really have good friends\u2014guys that you do life-on-life with?\u201d The question is all about guys who have been in your home. Why is that\u2014what\u2019s so telling about that\u2014do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, gosh! This is so interesting. I have a friend who applied for a job at Homeland Security. An FBI agent called me to do a background check on this guy. I said, \u201cFire away!\u201d He said, \u201cNo, I need to do it in person.\u201d So, he came by. He was very nervous, asking me questions about my friend. Then, a couple of minutes into it, he said, \u201cHave you ever been in his home?\u201d I said, \u201cWhy, of course, I have.\u201d You could see him kind of visibly relax\u2014so much so that I remarked about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe told me an interesting story. He said: \u201cI have been with hundreds and hundreds of people\u2014checking out references\u2014who always tell me that they\u2019re really close friends with somebody\u2014but what I find is, usually, the case\u2014is they can\u2019t even tell me the most basic information about the person that they\u2019re supposed to be this close friend with. They don\u2019t know the names of their children. They don\u2019t even know how many children they have. But I\u2019ve learned that if someone has been in somebody else\u2019s home, then, that\u2019s a pretty good litmus test for whether or not they\u2019re really friends.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re often saying: \u201cWell, yes, he\u2019s a good friend of mine. He\u2019s a good friend of mine.\u201d Actually, what we really mean is that we met them once; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 They\u2019re an acquaintance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Or, \u201cWe\u2019ve been focused on business together,\u201d because that can happen. You can have somebody you spend a lot of time with doing business stuff; but at the end of the day\u2014like you said\u2014if you said: \u201cWhat\u2019s his wife\u2019s name? How many kids does he have?\u201d I don\u2019t know much about him, personally. I just know about him on a utilitarian basis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s keep it real, too. I mean, guys, if you\u2019re listening, before we go off on somebody else, just ask yourself the same question. Somebody that you say is a real close friend of yours\u2014do you know how many children they have? Do you know their names? The reality is that most guys do not have deep friendships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Why is that? Why are we, as men, predisposed toward shallow, superficial relationships?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is the most clich\u00e9 possible answer I can come up with, I guess; but women, generally, tend to be more oriented to relationships. Men, generally-speaking, tend to be more oriented to tasks. That doesn\u2019t mean that women don\u2019t do tasks and men don\u2019t do relationships. Of course, they do. But the principle disposition of men is to be task-oriented\u2014to do the deal. That means that we keep it at the level of news, sports and weather; and then, we get on with the project at-hand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re good at the task\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014but we may not know how to do relationships. So, we may avoid them. It\u2019s a part of why we commissioned Bob, here a couple of years ago, to begin work on a video series called <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood\u2122<\/em>\u2014to get men together and to begin relating to other guys in small groups, where they could begin to connect with each other. We designed this so a guy\u2014all he has to do is raise his hand and say, \u201cI can carry on a conversation around a table.\u201d So, you know what? That guy can lead that small group. He can lead a group of men, plug in a video, show it on a screen, and maybe, have some\u2014as Bob likes to say\u2014order some wings.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right. Get the wings in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Get the wings out and start watching the video. Then, at the end of the video, begin to talk around some meaningful questions that will guide you into a conversation, where no longer are you the stray\u2014where the lion can seek to devour\u2014but you now can be a part of a protective herd, where you don\u2019t lose your identity. In fact, if anything, you gain more identity and more courage by being a part of a group.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPat, I know, because of your history, you\u2019re a big believer in small groups of men. You have a quote in your book\u2014I wrote it down, \u201cNever doubt the power of a small group.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. If someone was to ask me, \u201cWhat is the one thing that a man can do that would give him the greatest potential to be successful as a Christian?\u201d I would say: \u201cYou can\u2019t narrow it to one, but there are two things. Number one is that he would be in the Word of God for himself, on a regular basis; and then, secondly, that he would be doing life together with a few other guys, in a small group.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy that small group, I mean a small group that has a leader\u2014who has a vision to make disciples\u2014and a group who is digging into the Word of God because the Word of God\u2014that is what has the transformative power. At our Friday morning Bible study, we\u2019ve averaged four visitors a week for 27 years. I lead the first-time visitor\u2019s table. I always ask them, at the end, \u201cWhere are you on your spiritual journey today?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow many men do you think have said, \u201cI don\u2019t want to talk about it\u201d?\u2014Zero. Every single man, for 27 years, has wanted to share where he was on the spiritual journey. The reality is that men are hungry for relationships. They\u2019re hungry for meaningful conversation. So, if you can get yourself into a safe environment\u2014you have to give it some time to build some trust\u2014but once you do that, and begin to open up with the other guys\u2014Bob\u2014when we were off the air\u2014you were telling me about a group of guys, that you put together, who share very vulnerably\u2014but you set the pace for that. Then, once you did that\u2014then, they followed right along.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. What I found was that\u2014when they found they were in a safe place\u2014and that\u2019s where I think, with a lot of guys, they feel like: \u201cIs it really safe to be transparent? I would <em>love<\/em> to be able to be real with somebody; but, especially in a church environment, if I admit\u2014if I \u2018fess up to the fact that I\u2019m not as holy as I\u2019m supposed to be: \u201cI\u2019m going to get kicked out,\u201d or, \u201cAll I\u2019ll ever get to do is parking lot attendant, as a church responsibility,\u201d or, \u201cI just can\u2019t be real about my thoughts, my feelings, or my actions without getting busted.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I started the group by saying: \u201cOkay, let me tell you my story because all of us have one. All of us are on a progressive journey.\u201d Guys were like, \u201cOh, we\u2019re telling the real stuff about our lives?\u201d Then, they wanted to. They wanted, in a safe environment, to be able to say: \u201cThis is who I really am. If I can trust you guys to keep this information confidential\u2014between us, keep it in check and not hold it against me\u2014I\u2019ll go to battle with you.\u201d There was that sense, around the table.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong> Guys, if you\u2019re listening, the truth is that we are made for relationships. We\u2019re made for a relationship with God. We\u2019re made for a relationship with a woman. We\u2019re made for relationships with children. We\u2019re made for relationships with a handful of brothers, that we\u2019re doing life together with. If you stop and you think about it, you may be better at relationships than you think you are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob, back to that conversation the three of us were having\u2014you quoted James MacDonald about how a man needs to respond when another man spills his guts about some issue he\u2019s struggling with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 James MacDonald, when we were shooting the interview that we did for the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series\u2014I found out, during that conversation with him, that his doctoral thesis had been on the verse from James, Chapter 5, that says, \u201cConfess your sins one to another in order to be healed.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe applied that to men in ministry. One of the insights that he had\u2014he said, \u201cIf a brother ever opens up his heart to you and shares with you: \u2018This is what I\u2019m struggling with. This is what I\u2019ve done in my life that I\u2019m not proud of,\u2019\u201d he said, \u201cyou better be ready, as soon as that brother\u2019s done, to be equally vulnerable and transparent, or he won\u2019t go there again.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn other words, he has to know that if he\u2019s going to risk it, that you\u2019ll go there with him. James said, \u201cIf a guy says to you, \u2018Man, I\u2019ve always struggled with anger in my marriage,\u2019 and you say, \u2018Well, you know, here\u2019s how you fix that.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Whoops!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. Now, you\u2019re not going to be friends. Maybe, you\u2019ll feel better about yourself; but you and that guy aren\u2019t going to be friends. But if you say to him, \u201cYou know, for me, it\u2019s not been anger that\u2019s the issue; but I\u2019ve always struggled with passivity\u2014just checking out.\u201d Now, all of a sudden, that\u2019s where guys start to go, \u201cOkay, there\u2019s help here,\u201d because we confess our sins, one to another; and in that process, God starts to do the redeeming work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Last week\u2014just to illustrate what you\u2019re saying\u2014last week, I was with a businessman. We were on our way to a meeting. On the way, he said: \u201cYou know, my wife is really struggling\u2014feeling like, \u2018I don\u2019t match up.\u2019 She says, \u2018I just don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m meeting your expectations.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hadn\u2019t heard your illustration, Bob\u2014from James MacDonald\u2014but instead of giving some trite spiritual answer\u2014he\u2019s a good friend\u2014I said: \u201cYou know, Barbara and I have struggled with that, too. She\u2019s admitted to me, many times, \u2018You know, you just drive a hard bargain! You\u2019re a tough dude to satisfy\u2014to please!\u2019\u201d He said, \u201cReally; really?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, Dennis. I could have told you\u2014you were high-maintenance. You didn\u2019t need to have Barbara tell you that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 See, you\u2019re bitter because I said your books are being sold in a garage sale. You\u2019re no better, either! [Laughter] I know exactly what\u2019s taking place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Patrick:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re not the first guy who\u2019s told me about the garage sales\u2014trust me. Trust me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s because some of mine have been sold there, too. That\u2019s how I know they\u2019ve been sold.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes; but his were a quarter, and yours were only 15 cents.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Mine were a dime! Mine were a dime! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe challenge for men\u2014that I want to hear out of this is\u2014you know what? Grab a hold of Pat\u2019s book, grab a hold of <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em>\u2014the video series\u2014order some wings, and get some guys over to your home\u2014back to Pat\u2019s illustration. Get them out to, maybe, a church on Saturday morning\u2014five, six, seven of you\u2014or more, if you want to have more. Show the video. It\u2019s a 30-minute video that cuts to the chase. It\u2019s entertaining. It\u2019s funny. It\u2019s powerful. It\u2019s spiritual, and it will spawn all the conversation like we\u2019re talking about here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you know what? If somebody would like to <em>see<\/em> what we\u2019re talking about, this month, right here before Father\u2019s Day, we are making available copies of your book, <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood,<\/em> along with a DVD sampler that has Session One of the ten-week series on it. It also has the first half of Session One for the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video event resource, as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re sending out the book, and the sampler DVD, if folks will just call in and cover the cost of the shipping and the handling. The book and the DVD are free, essentially. All you have to do is cover the cost of shipping, and we\u2019ll get it out to you. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about how you can get Dennis\u2019s book, <em>Stepping Up<\/em>,and the sample DVD that comes with it. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order a copy of Patrick Morely\u2019s book, which is called <em>Man Alive<\/em>. We have that in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center, as well. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about Patrick\u2019s book; or call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, as most of our listeners know, <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported. We depend on hearing from folks, like you, in order to continue the work of this ministry. Your donations help to cover the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. This month, if you can help support the ministry with a donation, we\u2019d like to send you, as a thank-you gift, a message from Dennis\u2014a message presented, a number of years ago, at a football arena\u2014where he was talking to tens of thousands of guys about the important role a father plays in his son\u2019s life, helping him navigate his way through the traps of adolescence. The message is called <em>Turning Your Heart Toward Your Children<\/em>. The CD is our thank-you gift to you when you make a donation to help support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> this month.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click on the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d, and make your donation online; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can make your donation over the phone. Just ask for the CD from Dennis Rainey when you call in with your donation. We\u2019re happy to send it to you. We\u2019re grateful for your financial support. We appreciate hearing from you; and we appreciate your generosity, as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to encourage you to be back again with us tomorrow. Patrick Morely is going to be here again. We\u2019re going to hear about one of the most powerful moments in his life\u2014a moment with his dad that he will never forget, as long as he lives. That\u2019s coming up tomorrow. Hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302750","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302750"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302750"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302750"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302750"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302750"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302750"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302750"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}