{"id":302684,"date":"2013-02-14T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2013-02-14T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/embracing-companionship\/"},"modified":"2013-02-14T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2013-02-14T17:00:00","slug":"embracing-companionship","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/embracing-companionship\/","title":{"rendered":"Embracing Companionship"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dr. Michael Haykin talks about the romances and love letters of some of our most well-known theologians.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-02-14.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"25.38M","filesize_raw":"26612940","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2088],"tags":[2976,4714,2991],"podcast_series":[7706],"cwp_profile":[9189],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302684","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-romance-and-sex","tag-christian-marriage","tag-romance","tag-sex","podcast_series-the-christian-lover","cwp_profile-michael-haykin","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302684\/embracing-companionship","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302684\/embracing-companionship","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"cUZHMRQyVX\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/embracing-companionship\/\">Embracing Companionship<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/embracing-companionship\/embed\/#?secret=cUZHMRQyVX\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Embracing Companionship&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"cUZHMRQyVX\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-02-14.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-02-14.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you think of men who are history-making spiritual leaders, do you think of men who have great passion for their wives?\u00a0 Here is Professor Michael Haykin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 John Broadus, who was one of the founding four men of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, where I teach, and a name that is renowned in Southern Baptist circles.\u00a0 He is away\u2014I think he is in Virginia\u2014his wife is back in Kentucky.\u00a0 Once you get into the letter, you suddenly find that there has, obviously, been a quarrel between them before he left.\u00a0 He is, basically, asking for forgiveness.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is not just, \u201cPlease forgive me.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s, \u201cPlease, please....\u201d\u00a0 It goes on for a number of lines, where he is repeating the same thing:\u00a0 \u201cI do love you. I dearly love you.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 It shows you that, even in the best of marriages, there will be times of conflict and tension.\u00a0 The critical question is dealing with those things, biblically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>for Thursday, February 14<sup>th.<\/sup><sup>\u00a0 <\/sup>\u00a0Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I am Bob Lepine.\u00a0 There is a lot we can learn from our spiritual forefathers about God, about theology, even about romance and marriage.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I just have the sense that what we are going to talk about today\u2014if Hollywood was listening, there could be multiple movies made out of the stories our listeners are going to hear today.\u00a0 Don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 And the thing that would be refreshing about it, Bob, is it would be about real love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Hollywood loves love stories.\u00a0 They love romances and romantic comedies.\u00a0 We are going to hear some great stories of, as you said, the real item\u2014the genuine article.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Well, Bob, to your point, here is an excerpt of a love letter from Martin Luther to his wife Katie.\u00a0 It was written January 25, 1546.\u00a0 Now, that is an enduring love letter\u2014you know what I mean?\u00a0 It begins, \u201cMartin Luther to my kind and dear Katie Luther, a brewer, and a judge at the pig market at Wittenberg.\u201d\u00a0 Now, isn\u2019t that romantic?\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That just kind of causes the little cockles of your heart to swell; doesn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A brewer and a judge at the pig market at Wittenberg?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think we need some help on this particular letter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think we need a historian to help us find our way out of this.\u00a0 Dr. Michael Haykin joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 He is a professor of history\u2014so he can help us out.\u00a0 Welcome, Michael.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Good to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Michael is a Canadian and journeys down to Southern Seminary, every week, to teach at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.\u00a0 He is a professor of church history and biblical spirituality.\u00a0 He and his wife Allison, along with their two children, live just about 40 miles north of Niagara Falls.\u00a0 How often do you get down there?\u00a0 Tell the truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 To Niagara Falls? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 Probably about once a year, if that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 When you have visitors come in, they want to go see it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 The falls themselves are beautiful, but the city is really scudzy.\u00a0\u00a0 It has got a big casino that has moved in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wait a second!\u00a0 This is a time of romance.\u00a0 We are talking about Niagara Falls, which is a glorious place\u2014a romantic place\u2014for us, Americans.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 It may have been in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But, not anymore?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you have written a book called <em>The Christian Lover.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Being an historian of Church history, take us back and tell us why you decided to take a look at some of the great leaders of the past and their love letters to their spouses.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hold on.\u00a0 Before you tell us that, tell us what a judge at the pig market and a brewer\u2014explain that for us before we get too far away from that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, the judge at the pig market was that she had actually inherited a pig farm.\u00a0 So, she was kind of ruling over this pig farm.\u00a0 That is the ruling context.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Katie Luther took care of pigs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Was that her vocation?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 No.\u00a0 I mean, her vocation would be, kind of, Luther\u2019s wife and working in the home and so on; but she had inherited this pig market, which would have provided a context for food, and meat, and employment, and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And the brewer?\u00a0 Did she brew his beer?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I gather that the pig market, being a farm context, would also be involved in some brewing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 There you go! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 Why the book?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think the book comes out of a number of contexts.\u00a0 Some of it extends out of my role as teaching.\u00a0 One of the things that I started to realize, over the past 25 years of being in seminary, is that when we teach through Church history, we hit the big names.\u00a0 We hit the big theological issues, but certain things never come up.\u00a0 They are never dealt with.\u00a0 I was never taught anything about Christian marriage in the history of the Church.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I began to reflect on that area, especially in the last, probably, 25 years, we\u2019ve seen the implications, on a massive social level, of the social experiment that has been going on, in our culture, since the \u201860s.\u00a0 I think it is absolutely vital for those who are training for ministry to have some idea of what Christian marriage has historically looked like.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other area, too, is that, in the past, probably 10 years, it has been upsetting to me that a number of the men that I have trained\u2014their marriages have collapsed.\u00a0 These are students who have gone into ministry.\u00a0 I could name five to seven men, right off the bat, who I thought had great potential\u2014good, good men\u2014and their marriages are nowhere, today.\u00a0 They are, nowhere, ministering today because of the failure of their marriages.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 The ministry is a stressful kind of endeavor\u2014an occupation\u2014a calling.\u00a0 It does put a strain on the marriage relationship.\u00a0 That is not only true in our day, but that has been true throughout the history of the Church.\u00a0 I hadn\u2019t really stopped to think about it\u2014but prior to the Reformation, there weren\u2019t any married pastors in the Church; were there? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you have to go back to the very early Church, roughly from 400 through to the 1500s.\u00a0 Technically, celibacy is the rule.\u00a0 It is not until the 1100s that it is required that a parish minister be celibate, but it is certainly frowned upon.\u00a0 If your parish priest\u2014say in the 500s, 600s\u2014was a married man, he was basically living a substandard Christian life because it was understood that celibacy was the context in which Christian discipleship\u2014sanctification was to take place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And the thought was that this man was not giving his full devotion to the ministry\u2014if he has got a wife and if he has got children\u2014but at the same time, parishioners did not have any kind of a model, other than to look at one another, to see what should a godly marriage look like.\u00a0 To that extent, that was absent from their screen\u2014in terms of how they are to live out their own Christian marriages.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 That is correct. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, there was nothing coming, by way of example.\u00a0 I mean, if they weren\u2019t married, they weren\u2019t preaching the Scriptures, coming out of what they were experiencing, at home, with their spouse.\u00a0 So, as the Reformation came, and as Martin Luther gave leadership to birthing this spiritual movement, you are saying the roots really do sink back in to marriage and family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes; very much so.\u00a0 I think there is a rediscovery of the Christian marriage.\u00a0 It is the Reformers\u2014but especially, the Puritans, after them\u2014who create, for us, what we call the Christian home today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Was there tension for Luther?\u00a0 He had gone to a monastery in his early years\u2014right? \u2014training for the priesthood\u2014when he came to a fresh understanding of the Gospel, reading through the book of Romans; wasn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Correct.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 When he began to push away from the trappings of Rome, was this issue of marriage, for him, something that was hard for him to embrace?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 There is no evidence that I have seen that it was something that he wrestled with.\u00a0 By the time you move into the 1520s, he is starting to reconsider a variety of things, in terms of tradition that he has been taught.\u00a0 Marriage would certainly have been one of these issues.\u00a0 There is no indication\u2014that prior to the arrival of Katie on the scene\u2014that he was actually thinking about marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe story of her coming into his life is an interesting one.\u00a0 She was a nun in a nearby nunnery, not far from Wittenberg, and had come to reformed thinking because they had read some writings of Luther.\u00a0 She arranged to be smuggled out of the nunnery with 11 other nuns in pickle barrels.\u00a0 Whoever delivered pickles to the nunnery\u2014and obviously, if they\u2019ve got 12 pickle barrels, they must be eating a lot of pickles!\u00a0 The empty barrels were being taken back to wherever they made the pickles.\u00a0 She got smuggled out and deposited on Luther\u2019s doorstep, with the other nuns. He then proceeded to marry them off\u2014no indication that he had any idea of marrying one of them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe had two marriages set up for her.\u00a0 Both of them fell through because she had her eyes on Martin.\u00a0 So, it was that he ended up in 1526 marrying Katie.\u00a0 When he did so, he realized that he did so in violation of the vow he had made of celibacy.\u00a0 But, what he did do was rethink, \u201cWas that a valid vow that I could make before God\u2014that as a minister of the Word of God, I would commit to a celibate lifestyle?\u201d\u00a0 He realized, \u201cThe Scriptures do not bind my conscience in that direction.\u00a0 Therefore, the vow itself is not valid; and I can marry.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, you are saying that he could break his word with God?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 In the sense that this was not a vow that was a legitimate vow of Scripture, in his mind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 How about that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, he winds up marrying the woman who becomes the judge at the pig market and the brewer.\u00a0 Their relationship, like many of his relationships, was a fiery, feisty love relationship; wasn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes it is.\u00a0 The two letters I have included in the book are an element of that feistiness.\u00a0 One of them is she has been worrying, over duly about his health, etcetera.\u00a0 He basically writes back to kind of warn her, \u201cStop praying for me in this regard because I am fine, and etcetera.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Let me read what you captured here.\u00a0 He refers to her\u2014he says, \u201cMartin Luther to the Holy Lady, full of worries.\u201d Was he kind of tongue-in-cheek, at that point? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh yes.\u00a0 He is critiquing her for worrying about his situation. He is quite certain God\u2019s looking after him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He kind of goes on\u2014through the letter\u2014near the end, he says, \u201cPray and let God worry.\u00a0 You have certainly not been commanded to worry about me or yourself.\u00a0 \u2018Cast your burden on the Lord, and He will sustain you,\u2019 as is written in Psalm 55, verse 22, and many more passages.\u201d\u00a0 Then, he signs it, \u201cYour Holiness\u2019s willing servant.\u201d\u00a0 Now, what is behind that statement?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cYour Holiness\u2019s willing servant?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I think that\u2019s probably\u2014if you wanted to track it back, biblically, you\u2019d be going back to a passage, like Ephesians 5, where you are to \u201csubmit to one another\u201d.\u00a0 Before Paul talks about the relationships between husbands and wives, in the context of marriage, there is, nonetheless, as fellow believers, a mutual submission that is going on here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 And he was to present her blameless and spotless.\u00a0 Would that not also be reflected in here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes; very much so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, were he and Katie together, throughout his ministry?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, once they were married in 1526, until his death, 20 years later.\u00a0 There would be preaching trips he would take and these are written on preaching trips.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, when you think of the great marriages of the Reformation, would you put the Luthers at the top of the list?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 There is no doubt about it.\u00a0 Their marriage becomes known throughout Europe\u2014first, because of the prominent role Luther played in the beginning of the Reformation\u2014and then, he gets married; and he marries a nun\u2014but also, through the book, <em>Table Talk<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe students would come at Wittenberg.\u00a0 They would sit down and take down everything Luther said.\u00a0 So, for instance, the off comment\u2014one time, he says, talking about personal cleanliness\u2014he says, \u201cBefore I married Katie, I used to have a bath once a year; but after I married Katie, Katie would not have it so.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 So, I mean, that sort of thing gets published\u2014it becomes a very widely-publicized marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about Calvin\u2019s marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Calvin\u2019s marriage is in some respects very, very different.\u00a0 It is different because we just don\u2019t know about a lot about the inner workings.\u00a0 Calvin is a very different figure from Luther.\u00a0 Luther is a man who wears his heart on his sleeve.\u00a0 Calvin is very reticent for things that are going to be read in the public to detail his inner feelings.\u00a0\u00a0 Thus, we don\u2019t know a lot about what went on in their marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0 So, what you are saying there is\u2014perhaps, John Calvin might have been more like a CPA\u2014more of a process-oriented person, who is weighing the facts\u2014being very careful about what he puts out there.\u00a0 Is that what you are saying?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yes.\u00a0\u00a0 You see it in Calvin\u2019s preaching.\u00a0 Calvin, as a preacher, rarely refers to himself\u2014rarely.\u00a0\u00a0 Luther, as a preacher, is always talking about how God saved him from the papacy.\u00a0\u00a0 It is a very different type of character.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We do see insight into Calvin\u2019s love for his wife upon her death; don\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 We do.\u00a0 Yes, we do.\u00a0\u00a0 There are two letters\u2014both written to very close friends\u2014one to Pierre Viret, who is a co-laborer, there at Geneva, and eventually went on to be involved in other churches in the francophone world\u2014and one to Guilhem Farel.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want you to read some of this letter to our listeners because it really is a sweet story of love.\u00a0 I think many times, Bob, we take a step back from Church history and think of these fiery reformers and all the good they did; but we don\u2019t think about their humanity\u2014that they had to carve out a place, in their own home, to learn how to love, and live, and forgive, and care for one another.\u00a0 You really hear some of these words in John Calvin\u2019s statement of love to his wife, after she had died. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 This is Calvin writing to Pierre Viret on April the 7<sup>th<\/sup>, 1549:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Although the death of my wife has been exceedingly painful to me, yet, I subdue my grief as well as I can.\u00a0 But you know well enough how tender, or rather, how soft my mind is.\u00a0 Had not a powerful self-control therefore been vouchsafed to me I could not have born up so long.\u00a0 And truly, mine is no common source of grief. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have been bereaved of the best companion of my life, of one, who had it been so ordered, would not only have been the willing sharer of my indigence, but even of my death.\u00a0 During her life, she was the faithful helper of my ministry.\u00a0 From her, I never experienced the slightest hindrance.\u00a0 She was never troublesome to me throughout the entire course of her illness.\u00a0 She was more anxious about her children than about herself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I feared, these private cares might annoy her to no purpose.\u00a0 I took occasion, on the third day before her death, to mention that I would not fail in discharging my duty to our children.\u00a0 Taking up the matter immediately, she said, \u201cI have already committed them to God.\u201d\u00a0 When I said that was not to prevent me from caring for them, she replied, \u201cI know you will not neglect what you know has been committed to God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you see in that\u2014is there is a window there\u2014there is a window into a complete rediscovery of marriage.\u00a0 The Middle Ages\u2014roughly, that 1,000 years\u2014had failed to understand that the heart of marriage is companionship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAugustine, for example, back in the 4<sup>th<\/sup> century, commenting on Genesis 2, talks about how marriage has been as a model of the relationship of Christ to His Church.\u00a0 It is given to prevent immorality.\u00a0 It is given for the purpose of procreation, but he says <em>nothing<\/em> about companionship.\u00a0 And he says, in fact, at one point, that if Eve couldn\u2019t have born Adam children, she would have been no use to him\u2014which is an amazing statement\u2014but in the development of thinking about marriage, in the Middle Ages, that whole area of companionship is completely lost.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think you make a very interesting point, here\u2014and one that I don\u2019t know that I have ever stopped to consider.\u00a0\u00a0 In the 1500s, and with the onset of the Reformation, we had the work ethic.\u00a0 The protestant work ethic is often referred to as coming from that period.\u00a0 Work, outside of the Church, gained nobility that it had not had before.\u00a0 It sounds like what you are saying is\u2014in that same period\u2014marriage gained nobility that had been lacking from the Church\u2019s understanding.\u00a0 All of a sudden, the relationship between a husband and wife was put in its biblical place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes; very much so.\u00a0\u00a0 In the Middle Ages, the context for romantic love is never marriage.\u00a0 If you look at the love ballads\u2014the poetry of the high Middle Ages\u2014it is these illicit affairs where men have affairs with women who can\u2019t requite the love because they are already married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, the romance wasn\u2019t centered back at home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 It is adultery.\u00a0 A lot of the secular love poetry of the Medieval Period is adulterous in context because you basically have a standard in which the place of discipleship is in a celibate context.\u00a0 You don\u2019t have any of the parish priests who are\u2014technically, they are all celibate\u2014they can\u2019t reflect this.\u00a0 So, where are you going to find this?\u00a0 So, it is found outside of the bonds of marriage.\u00a0 Marriage was seen as primarily a place to procreate children and illustrates the union of Christ and His Church.\u00a0 It was not a loving companionship, which is demonstrated by physical intimacy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, it is interesting you say that because Barbara and I recently, in our own marriage, have kind of taken a step back.\u00a0 We have been married, now for 37 years [as of three years ago].\u00a0 We just evaluated what we have been through over the past few years.\u00a0 We decided, \u201cWe need to have some fun\u2014just some pure, laugh-all-the-time type of fun.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are on a mission right now.\u00a0 Over the next 6 to 12 months, we are going to find ways we can have fun.\u00a0 I think what we are actually yearning for is some of what you are talking about here\u2014the companionship that is not about problem solving, it is not about duty\u2014it is really a matter of sharing life with someone you really do enjoy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we talk, at our <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways, about God\u2019s purposes for marriage.\u00a0 We talk about one purpose being to mirror His image\u2014to reflect God\u2019s glory.\u00a0 Another purpose is to multiply a godly legacy.\u00a0 Those purposes have been affirmed, by the Church, as being what the Bible teaches, for thousands of years.\u00a0 But we also talk about the aspect of mutually-completing one another\u2014this companionship that God has designed marriage to be all about:\u00a0 \u201cIt is not good for man to be alone.\u00a0 I will make a helper suitable for him.\u201d\u00a0 I think couples, when they come to a <em>Weekend to Remember, <\/em>get a fresh sense of what it is the Bible teaches\u2014the nobility that the Bible gives to the marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the reasons I\u2019m thinking about the <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>is because, last weekend, you spoke at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>,at the Gaylord National, in the Washington, DC, area.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you are going to be at one in\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hershey, Pennsylvania.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Chocolates, valentines, and a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 The nation\u2019s capital or the chocolate capital?\u00a0 I said, \u201cI am going for the chocolate capital!\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 We still have some seats available in the ballroom for the Hershey conference, this weekend, if anybody would like to join us.\u00a0 But throughout this spring, there are going to be <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>getaways happening in cities, all across the country.\u00a0 We\u2019d love to have you join us at a <em>Weekend to Remember.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>You can find out more on our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob, one thing I wanted to say here, about companionship\u2014we don\u2019t think we need to be trained\u2014but I think, biblically, that is what the Scriptures are trying to do.\u00a0 They are trying to teach us how to deny ourselves, which doesn\u2019t come easy.\u00a0 If you are going to have true companionship, I believe at its core, it must be made up of self-denial, where you find out, \u201cWhat would you think is really fun, Sweetheart?\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 I asked Barbara that.\u00a0 I said, \u201cWhat would you think would be the ideal day for you or something really fun to go do?\u201d\u00a0 Do you know what she said?\u00a0 \u201cWork all Saturday, in the yard.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Wow!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Now, let me ask you, is that anywhere in my top ten of what I would think would be fun and would be filled with companionship on a Saturday?\u00a0 Well, it didn\u2019t used to be.\u00a0 But I have learned, because of my desire to love my wife, to lay aside my agenda of what I would like to go do and participate around the matters that she would like to do.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t spend all day; but I got a half-day in!\u00a0 We had some good time together.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the question for our listeners is: \u201cWhat would communicate companionship to you and your spouse?\u00a0\u00a0 What are some practical ways you can make good on that, in terms of building that into your marriage?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Coming out for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> this weekend is just one of those options.\u00a0 It might be that listeners will want to get a copy of Dr Haykin's book.\u00a0 We have it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 It is called, <em>The Christian Lover: The Sweetness of Love and Marriage in the Letters of Believers<\/em>.\u00a0 You can get more information about the book on our website, FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and you will find information about Dr. Michael Haykin\u2019s book; or call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and, then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 Get in touch with us, and we will let you know how you can get a copy of Dr. Haykin\u2019s book sent out to you.\u00a0 If you are interested in coming to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> this weekend, or any of our future <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> conferences, call us and we will answer any questions you have and get you registered, over the phone.\u00a0 Or go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt a recent <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, I had the opportunity to spend some time talking about marital intimacy\u2014one of the subjects that we cover at the <em>Weekend to Remember.<\/em> We spend time at the <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>talking about what the Bible has to say about the physical relationship between a husband and a wife.\u00a0 I presented that message, not long ago.\u00a0 We are making the CD audio of that message available, this week, for those of you who are able to help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation of any amount.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are listener-supported.\u00a0 Your support is what makes this program possible in this community and in cities, all around the country.\u00a0 So if you\u2019re able to help with a donation today, just go to FamilyLifeToday.com<em>.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d.\u00a0 Make an online donation, and mention that you\u2019d like the CD of my message.\u00a0 Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Make a donation, over the phone.\u00a0 Again, ask for the CD on marital intimacy.\u00a0 We are happy to send it out to you; and again, we appreciate you joining with us.\u00a0 It\u2019s nice to have you as a partner in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can be back with us again tomorrow.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to ask Dr. Michael Haykin to tell us what kind of pastoral counsel a Puritan preacher might have given somebody in his congregation about marital romance and intimacy, back, hundreds of years ago.\u00a0 Dr. Haykin believes the Puritans get a bad rap on this subject.\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow.\u00a0 Hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I am Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.38M"],"filesize_raw":["26612940"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302684.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302684.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 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Michael Haykin talks about the romances and love letters of some of our most well-known theologians.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-02-14.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you think of men who are history-making spiritual leaders, do you think of men who have great passion for their wives?\u00a0 Here is Professor Michael Haykin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 John Broadus, who was one of the founding four men of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, where I teach, and a name that is renowned in Southern Baptist circles.\u00a0 He is away\u2014I think he is in Virginia\u2014his wife is back in Kentucky.\u00a0 Once you get into the letter, you suddenly find that there has, obviously, been a quarrel between them before he left.\u00a0 He is, basically, asking for forgiveness.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is not just, \u201cPlease forgive me.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s, \u201cPlease, please....\u201d\u00a0 It goes on for a number of lines, where he is repeating the same thing:\u00a0 \u201cI do love you. I dearly love you.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 It shows you that, even in the best of marriages, there will be times of conflict and tension.\u00a0 The critical question is dealing with those things, biblically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>for Thursday, February 14<sup>th.<\/sup><sup>\u00a0 <\/sup>\u00a0Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I am Bob Lepine.\u00a0 There is a lot we can learn from our spiritual forefathers about God, about theology, even about romance and marriage.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I just have the sense that what we are going to talk about today\u2014if Hollywood was listening, there could be multiple movies made out of the stories our listeners are going to hear today.\u00a0 Don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 And the thing that would be refreshing about it, Bob, is it would be about real love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Hollywood loves love stories.\u00a0 They love romances and romantic comedies.\u00a0 We are going to hear some great stories of, as you said, the real item\u2014the genuine article.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Well, Bob, to your point, here is an excerpt of a love letter from Martin Luther to his wife Katie.\u00a0 It was written January 25, 1546.\u00a0 Now, that is an enduring love letter\u2014you know what I mean?\u00a0 It begins, \u201cMartin Luther to my kind and dear Katie Luther, a brewer, and a judge at the pig market at Wittenberg.\u201d\u00a0 Now, isn\u2019t that romantic?\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That just kind of causes the little cockles of your heart to swell; doesn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A brewer and a judge at the pig market at Wittenberg?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think we need some help on this particular letter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think we need a historian to help us find our way out of this.\u00a0 Dr. Michael Haykin joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 He is a professor of history\u2014so he can help us out.\u00a0 Welcome, Michael.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Good to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Michael is a Canadian and journeys down to Southern Seminary, every week, to teach at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.\u00a0 He is a professor of church history and biblical spirituality.\u00a0 He and his wife Allison, along with their two children, live just about 40 miles north of Niagara Falls.\u00a0 How often do you get down there?\u00a0 Tell the truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 To Niagara Falls? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 Probably about once a year, if that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 When you have visitors come in, they want to go see it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 The falls themselves are beautiful, but the city is really scudzy.\u00a0\u00a0 It has got a big casino that has moved in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wait a second!\u00a0 This is a time of romance.\u00a0 We are talking about Niagara Falls, which is a glorious place\u2014a romantic place\u2014for us, Americans.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 It may have been in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But, not anymore?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you have written a book called <em>The Christian Lover.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Being an historian of Church history, take us back and tell us why you decided to take a look at some of the great leaders of the past and their love letters to their spouses.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hold on.\u00a0 Before you tell us that, tell us what a judge at the pig market and a brewer\u2014explain that for us before we get too far away from that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, the judge at the pig market was that she had actually inherited a pig farm.\u00a0 So, she was kind of ruling over this pig farm.\u00a0 That is the ruling context.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Katie Luther took care of pigs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Was that her vocation?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 No.\u00a0 I mean, her vocation would be, kind of, Luther\u2019s wife and working in the home and so on; but she had inherited this pig market, which would have provided a context for food, and meat, and employment, and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And the brewer?\u00a0 Did she brew his beer?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I gather that the pig market, being a farm context, would also be involved in some brewing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 There you go! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 Why the book?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think the book comes out of a number of contexts.\u00a0 Some of it extends out of my role as teaching.\u00a0 One of the things that I started to realize, over the past 25 years of being in seminary, is that when we teach through Church history, we hit the big names.\u00a0 We hit the big theological issues, but certain things never come up.\u00a0 They are never dealt with.\u00a0 I was never taught anything about Christian marriage in the history of the Church.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I began to reflect on that area, especially in the last, probably, 25 years, we\u2019ve seen the implications, on a massive social level, of the social experiment that has been going on, in our culture, since the \u201860s.\u00a0 I think it is absolutely vital for those who are training for ministry to have some idea of what Christian marriage has historically looked like.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other area, too, is that, in the past, probably 10 years, it has been upsetting to me that a number of the men that I have trained\u2014their marriages have collapsed.\u00a0 These are students who have gone into ministry.\u00a0 I could name five to seven men, right off the bat, who I thought had great potential\u2014good, good men\u2014and their marriages are nowhere, today.\u00a0 They are, nowhere, ministering today because of the failure of their marriages.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 The ministry is a stressful kind of endeavor\u2014an occupation\u2014a calling.\u00a0 It does put a strain on the marriage relationship.\u00a0 That is not only true in our day, but that has been true throughout the history of the Church.\u00a0 I hadn\u2019t really stopped to think about it\u2014but prior to the Reformation, there weren\u2019t any married pastors in the Church; were there? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you have to go back to the very early Church, roughly from 400 through to the 1500s.\u00a0 Technically, celibacy is the rule.\u00a0 It is not until the 1100s that it is required that a parish minister be celibate, but it is certainly frowned upon.\u00a0 If your parish priest\u2014say in the 500s, 600s\u2014was a married man, he was basically living a substandard Christian life because it was understood that celibacy was the context in which Christian discipleship\u2014sanctification was to take place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And the thought was that this man was not giving his full devotion to the ministry\u2014if he has got a wife and if he has got children\u2014but at the same time, parishioners did not have any kind of a model, other than to look at one another, to see what should a godly marriage look like.\u00a0 To that extent, that was absent from their screen\u2014in terms of how they are to live out their own Christian marriages.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 That is correct. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, there was nothing coming, by way of example.\u00a0 I mean, if they weren\u2019t married, they weren\u2019t preaching the Scriptures, coming out of what they were experiencing, at home, with their spouse.\u00a0 So, as the Reformation came, and as Martin Luther gave leadership to birthing this spiritual movement, you are saying the roots really do sink back in to marriage and family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes; very much so.\u00a0 I think there is a rediscovery of the Christian marriage.\u00a0 It is the Reformers\u2014but especially, the Puritans, after them\u2014who create, for us, what we call the Christian home today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Was there tension for Luther?\u00a0 He had gone to a monastery in his early years\u2014right? \u2014training for the priesthood\u2014when he came to a fresh understanding of the Gospel, reading through the book of Romans; wasn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Correct.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 When he began to push away from the trappings of Rome, was this issue of marriage, for him, something that was hard for him to embrace?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 There is no evidence that I have seen that it was something that he wrestled with.\u00a0 By the time you move into the 1520s, he is starting to reconsider a variety of things, in terms of tradition that he has been taught.\u00a0 Marriage would certainly have been one of these issues.\u00a0 There is no indication\u2014that prior to the arrival of Katie on the scene\u2014that he was actually thinking about marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe story of her coming into his life is an interesting one.\u00a0 She was a nun in a nearby nunnery, not far from Wittenberg, and had come to reformed thinking because they had read some writings of Luther.\u00a0 She arranged to be smuggled out of the nunnery with 11 other nuns in pickle barrels.\u00a0 Whoever delivered pickles to the nunnery\u2014and obviously, if they\u2019ve got 12 pickle barrels, they must be eating a lot of pickles!\u00a0 The empty barrels were being taken back to wherever they made the pickles.\u00a0 She got smuggled out and deposited on Luther\u2019s doorstep, with the other nuns. He then proceeded to marry them off\u2014no indication that he had any idea of marrying one of them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe had two marriages set up for her.\u00a0 Both of them fell through because she had her eyes on Martin.\u00a0 So, it was that he ended up in 1526 marrying Katie.\u00a0 When he did so, he realized that he did so in violation of the vow he had made of celibacy.\u00a0 But, what he did do was rethink, \u201cWas that a valid vow that I could make before God\u2014that as a minister of the Word of God, I would commit to a celibate lifestyle?\u201d\u00a0 He realized, \u201cThe Scriptures do not bind my conscience in that direction.\u00a0 Therefore, the vow itself is not valid; and I can marry.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, you are saying that he could break his word with God?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 In the sense that this was not a vow that was a legitimate vow of Scripture, in his mind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 How about that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, he winds up marrying the woman who becomes the judge at the pig market and the brewer.\u00a0 Their relationship, like many of his relationships, was a fiery, feisty love relationship; wasn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes it is.\u00a0 The two letters I have included in the book are an element of that feistiness.\u00a0 One of them is she has been worrying, over duly about his health, etcetera.\u00a0 He basically writes back to kind of warn her, \u201cStop praying for me in this regard because I am fine, and etcetera.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Let me read what you captured here.\u00a0 He refers to her\u2014he says, \u201cMartin Luther to the Holy Lady, full of worries.\u201d Was he kind of tongue-in-cheek, at that point? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh yes.\u00a0 He is critiquing her for worrying about his situation. He is quite certain God\u2019s looking after him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He kind of goes on\u2014through the letter\u2014near the end, he says, \u201cPray and let God worry.\u00a0 You have certainly not been commanded to worry about me or yourself.\u00a0 \u2018Cast your burden on the Lord, and He will sustain you,\u2019 as is written in Psalm 55, verse 22, and many more passages.\u201d\u00a0 Then, he signs it, \u201cYour Holiness\u2019s willing servant.\u201d\u00a0 Now, what is behind that statement?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cYour Holiness\u2019s willing servant?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I think that\u2019s probably\u2014if you wanted to track it back, biblically, you\u2019d be going back to a passage, like Ephesians 5, where you are to \u201csubmit to one another\u201d.\u00a0 Before Paul talks about the relationships between husbands and wives, in the context of marriage, there is, nonetheless, as fellow believers, a mutual submission that is going on here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 And he was to present her blameless and spotless.\u00a0 Would that not also be reflected in here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes; very much so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, were he and Katie together, throughout his ministry?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, once they were married in 1526, until his death, 20 years later.\u00a0 There would be preaching trips he would take and these are written on preaching trips.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, when you think of the great marriages of the Reformation, would you put the Luthers at the top of the list?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 There is no doubt about it.\u00a0 Their marriage becomes known throughout Europe\u2014first, because of the prominent role Luther played in the beginning of the Reformation\u2014and then, he gets married; and he marries a nun\u2014but also, through the book, <em>Table Talk<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe students would come at Wittenberg.\u00a0 They would sit down and take down everything Luther said.\u00a0 So, for instance, the off comment\u2014one time, he says, talking about personal cleanliness\u2014he says, \u201cBefore I married Katie, I used to have a bath once a year; but after I married Katie, Katie would not have it so.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 So, I mean, that sort of thing gets published\u2014it becomes a very widely-publicized marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about Calvin\u2019s marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Calvin\u2019s marriage is in some respects very, very different.\u00a0 It is different because we just don\u2019t know about a lot about the inner workings.\u00a0 Calvin is a very different figure from Luther.\u00a0 Luther is a man who wears his heart on his sleeve.\u00a0 Calvin is very reticent for things that are going to be read in the public to detail his inner feelings.\u00a0\u00a0 Thus, we don\u2019t know a lot about what went on in their marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0 So, what you are saying there is\u2014perhaps, John Calvin might have been more like a CPA\u2014more of a process-oriented person, who is weighing the facts\u2014being very careful about what he puts out there.\u00a0 Is that what you are saying?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yes.\u00a0\u00a0 You see it in Calvin\u2019s preaching.\u00a0 Calvin, as a preacher, rarely refers to himself\u2014rarely.\u00a0\u00a0 Luther, as a preacher, is always talking about how God saved him from the papacy.\u00a0\u00a0 It is a very different type of character.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We do see insight into Calvin\u2019s love for his wife upon her death; don\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 We do.\u00a0 Yes, we do.\u00a0\u00a0 There are two letters\u2014both written to very close friends\u2014one to Pierre Viret, who is a co-laborer, there at Geneva, and eventually went on to be involved in other churches in the francophone world\u2014and one to Guilhem Farel.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want you to read some of this letter to our listeners because it really is a sweet story of love.\u00a0 I think many times, Bob, we take a step back from Church history and think of these fiery reformers and all the good they did; but we don\u2019t think about their humanity\u2014that they had to carve out a place, in their own home, to learn how to love, and live, and forgive, and care for one another.\u00a0 You really hear some of these words in John Calvin\u2019s statement of love to his wife, after she had died. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 This is Calvin writing to Pierre Viret on April the 7<sup>th<\/sup>, 1549:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Although the death of my wife has been exceedingly painful to me, yet, I subdue my grief as well as I can.\u00a0 But you know well enough how tender, or rather, how soft my mind is.\u00a0 Had not a powerful self-control therefore been vouchsafed to me I could not have born up so long.\u00a0 And truly, mine is no common source of grief. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have been bereaved of the best companion of my life, of one, who had it been so ordered, would not only have been the willing sharer of my indigence, but even of my death.\u00a0 During her life, she was the faithful helper of my ministry.\u00a0 From her, I never experienced the slightest hindrance.\u00a0 She was never troublesome to me throughout the entire course of her illness.\u00a0 She was more anxious about her children than about herself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I feared, these private cares might annoy her to no purpose.\u00a0 I took occasion, on the third day before her death, to mention that I would not fail in discharging my duty to our children.\u00a0 Taking up the matter immediately, she said, \u201cI have already committed them to God.\u201d\u00a0 When I said that was not to prevent me from caring for them, she replied, \u201cI know you will not neglect what you know has been committed to God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you see in that\u2014is there is a window there\u2014there is a window into a complete rediscovery of marriage.\u00a0 The Middle Ages\u2014roughly, that 1,000 years\u2014had failed to understand that the heart of marriage is companionship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAugustine, for example, back in the 4<sup>th<\/sup> century, commenting on Genesis 2, talks about how marriage has been as a model of the relationship of Christ to His Church.\u00a0 It is given to prevent immorality.\u00a0 It is given for the purpose of procreation, but he says <em>nothing<\/em> about companionship.\u00a0 And he says, in fact, at one point, that if Eve couldn\u2019t have born Adam children, she would have been no use to him\u2014which is an amazing statement\u2014but in the development of thinking about marriage, in the Middle Ages, that whole area of companionship is completely lost.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think you make a very interesting point, here\u2014and one that I don\u2019t know that I have ever stopped to consider.\u00a0\u00a0 In the 1500s, and with the onset of the Reformation, we had the work ethic.\u00a0 The protestant work ethic is often referred to as coming from that period.\u00a0 Work, outside of the Church, gained nobility that it had not had before.\u00a0 It sounds like what you are saying is\u2014in that same period\u2014marriage gained nobility that had been lacking from the Church\u2019s understanding.\u00a0 All of a sudden, the relationship between a husband and wife was put in its biblical place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes; very much so.\u00a0\u00a0 In the Middle Ages, the context for romantic love is never marriage.\u00a0 If you look at the love ballads\u2014the poetry of the high Middle Ages\u2014it is these illicit affairs where men have affairs with women who can\u2019t requite the love because they are already married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, the romance wasn\u2019t centered back at home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 It is adultery.\u00a0 A lot of the secular love poetry of the Medieval Period is adulterous in context because you basically have a standard in which the place of discipleship is in a celibate context.\u00a0 You don\u2019t have any of the parish priests who are\u2014technically, they are all celibate\u2014they can\u2019t reflect this.\u00a0 So, where are you going to find this?\u00a0 So, it is found outside of the bonds of marriage.\u00a0 Marriage was seen as primarily a place to procreate children and illustrates the union of Christ and His Church.\u00a0 It was not a loving companionship, which is demonstrated by physical intimacy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, it is interesting you say that because Barbara and I recently, in our own marriage, have kind of taken a step back.\u00a0 We have been married, now for 37 years [as of three years ago].\u00a0 We just evaluated what we have been through over the past few years.\u00a0 We decided, \u201cWe need to have some fun\u2014just some pure, laugh-all-the-time type of fun.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are on a mission right now.\u00a0 Over the next 6 to 12 months, we are going to find ways we can have fun.\u00a0 I think what we are actually yearning for is some of what you are talking about here\u2014the companionship that is not about problem solving, it is not about duty\u2014it is really a matter of sharing life with someone you really do enjoy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we talk, at our <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways, about God\u2019s purposes for marriage.\u00a0 We talk about one purpose being to mirror His image\u2014to reflect God\u2019s glory.\u00a0 Another purpose is to multiply a godly legacy.\u00a0 Those purposes have been affirmed, by the Church, as being what the Bible teaches, for thousands of years.\u00a0 But we also talk about the aspect of mutually-completing one another\u2014this companionship that God has designed marriage to be all about:\u00a0 \u201cIt is not good for man to be alone.\u00a0 I will make a helper suitable for him.\u201d\u00a0 I think couples, when they come to a <em>Weekend to Remember, <\/em>get a fresh sense of what it is the Bible teaches\u2014the nobility that the Bible gives to the marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the reasons I\u2019m thinking about the <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>is because, last weekend, you spoke at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>,at the Gaylord National, in the Washington, DC, area.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you are going to be at one in\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hershey, Pennsylvania.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Chocolates, valentines, and a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 The nation\u2019s capital or the chocolate capital?\u00a0 I said, \u201cI am going for the chocolate capital!\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 We still have some seats available in the ballroom for the Hershey conference, this weekend, if anybody would like to join us.\u00a0 But throughout this spring, there are going to be <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>getaways happening in cities, all across the country.\u00a0 We\u2019d love to have you join us at a <em>Weekend to Remember.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>You can find out more on our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob, one thing I wanted to say here, about companionship\u2014we don\u2019t think we need to be trained\u2014but I think, biblically, that is what the Scriptures are trying to do.\u00a0 They are trying to teach us how to deny ourselves, which doesn\u2019t come easy.\u00a0 If you are going to have true companionship, I believe at its core, it must be made up of self-denial, where you find out, \u201cWhat would you think is really fun, Sweetheart?\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 I asked Barbara that.\u00a0 I said, \u201cWhat would you think would be the ideal day for you or something really fun to go do?\u201d\u00a0 Do you know what she said?\u00a0 \u201cWork all Saturday, in the yard.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Wow!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Now, let me ask you, is that anywhere in my top ten of what I would think would be fun and would be filled with companionship on a Saturday?\u00a0 Well, it didn\u2019t used to be.\u00a0 But I have learned, because of my desire to love my wife, to lay aside my agenda of what I would like to go do and participate around the matters that she would like to do.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t spend all day; but I got a half-day in!\u00a0 We had some good time together.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the question for our listeners is: \u201cWhat would communicate companionship to you and your spouse?\u00a0\u00a0 What are some practical ways you can make good on that, in terms of building that into your marriage?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Coming out for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> this weekend is just one of those options.\u00a0 It might be that listeners will want to get a copy of Dr Haykin's book.\u00a0 We have it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 It is called, <em>The Christian Lover: The Sweetness of Love and Marriage in the Letters of Believers<\/em>.\u00a0 You can get more information about the book on our website, FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and you will find information about Dr. Michael Haykin\u2019s book; or call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and, then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 Get in touch with us, and we will let you know how you can get a copy of Dr. Haykin\u2019s book sent out to you.\u00a0 If you are interested in coming to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> this weekend, or any of our future <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> conferences, call us and we will answer any questions you have and get you registered, over the phone.\u00a0 Or go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt a recent <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, I had the opportunity to spend some time talking about marital intimacy\u2014one of the subjects that we cover at the <em>Weekend to Remember.<\/em> We spend time at the <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>talking about what the Bible has to say about the physical relationship between a husband and a wife.\u00a0 I presented that message, not long ago.\u00a0 We are making the CD audio of that message available, this week, for those of you who are able to help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation of any amount.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are listener-supported.\u00a0 Your support is what makes this program possible in this community and in cities, all around the country.\u00a0 So if you\u2019re able to help with a donation today, just go to FamilyLifeToday.com<em>.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d.\u00a0 Make an online donation, and mention that you\u2019d like the CD of my message.\u00a0 Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Make a donation, over the phone.\u00a0 Again, ask for the CD on marital intimacy.\u00a0 We are happy to send it out to you; and again, we appreciate you joining with us.\u00a0 It\u2019s nice to have you as a partner in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can be back with us again tomorrow.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to ask Dr. Michael Haykin to tell us what kind of pastoral counsel a Puritan preacher might have given somebody in his congregation about marital romance and intimacy, back, hundreds of years ago.\u00a0 Dr. Haykin believes the Puritans get a bad rap on this subject.\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow.\u00a0 Hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I am Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302684","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302684"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302684"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302684"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302684"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302684"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302684"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302684"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}