{"id":302670,"date":"2013-01-16T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2013-01-16T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-start-of-the-extraordinary\/"},"modified":"2013-01-16T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2013-01-16T17:00:00","slug":"the-start-of-the-extraordinary","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-start-of-the-extraordinary\/","title":{"rendered":"The Start of the Extraordinary"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Justin and Trish Davis talk frankly about the problems that almost sunk their marriage and ministry until God\u2019s truth and healing brought them back to solid ground.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-01-16.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"27.93M","filesize_raw":"29287245","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2863],"tags":[4692,4837],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9288],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302670","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-saving-a-marriage","tag-help-my-marriage","tag-troubled-marriage","cwp_profile-justin-and-trisha-davis","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302670\/the-start-of-the-extraordinary","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302670\/the-start-of-the-extraordinary","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"olhFxFCwsK\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-start-of-the-extraordinary\/\">The Start of the Extraordinary<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-start-of-the-extraordinary\/embed\/#?secret=olhFxFCwsK\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Start of the Extraordinary&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"olhFxFCwsK\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-01-16.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-01-16.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Trisha Davis learned, in her marriage, that sometimes things have to hit the bottom before you find a rock you can stand on.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 Even though I\u2019ve been wounded so much\u2014you know, we\u2019ve been married ten years now.\u00a0 He\u2019s had an affair.\u00a0 I\u2019ve lost my husband, I\u2019ve lost my church family, I\u2019ve lost my friends, I\u2019m losing my home.\u00a0 I mean, you lose everything.\u00a0 The gift in that is that God is still enough.\u00a0 If God is still enough when you are there, He has to be enough to help me to understand my own issues so that, then, I can love in the extraordinary.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, January 16<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 When your marriage seems like it is hopeless, there is still hope\u2014as we\u2019ll hear today.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I feel like we need to back up a little bit from where we are this week.\u00a0 We\u2019ve been hearing a story from our guests, Justin and Trish Davis\u2014and by the way, welcome back guys.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you very much.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Nice to have you here.\u00a0 It\u2019s a story, Dennis, of a couple who met in college, fell in love, got married, found themselves in ministry, and found themselves starting to drift\u2014which is a course that a lot of marriages take\u2014whether you are in ministry or not.\u00a0 Marriages drift away.\u00a0 You drift toward isolation.\u00a0 We talk about that at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaway, regularly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I should mention, here, that this week and next week, we are offering <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners an opportunity to attend one of those getaways this spring at a special rate.\u00a0 When you register for yourself, your spouse comes for free.\u00a0 It\u2019s a buy one\/get one free registration offer.\u00a0 It\u2019s good this week and next week.\u00a0 It\u2019s for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\u00a0 If you want to take advantage of it, go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Fill out the registration form, and type my name\u2014type \u201cBOB\u201d\u2014in the promotional code box that you find on the registration form.\u00a0 Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and mention that you\u2019d like to attend a conference\u2014that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and that you want to take advantage of the special offer.\u00a0 Again, it\u2019s a buy one\/get one free offer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can register for any of the dozens of events that we\u2019re going to be hosting in cities, all across the country, this spring.\u00a0 Dennis is going to be at the event in Washington, DC, coming up right before Valentine\u2019s Day.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to be at the Hershey Lodge in Pennsylvania, right after Valentine\u2019s Day.\u00a0 You can come to one of those two events or any of these events that we\u2019re going to be putting on throughout the spring.\u00a0 Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and to take advantage of the special offer that we\u2019re making for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut back to the story that we\u2019re hearing this week from Justin and Trisha Davis\u2014you guys had started to drift toward isolation in your marriage.\u00a0 You were strangers to the point that, at the ten-year mark in your marriage, Justin, you walked into the bedroom, one Sunday afternoon, as Trisha was taking a nap.\u00a0 You woke her up and you said, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be in this marriage anymore.\u00a0 I don\u2019t love you, and I\u2019m having an affair with one of your friends.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And as I was thinking about their story and reading through their book, I thought of Proverbs, Chapter 6.\u00a0 I\u2019ve written a little book for dads and moms to prepare their sons for the enticing woman.\u00a0 It\u2019s called <em>Aggressive Girls, Clueless Boys<\/em>.\u00a0 It\u2019s actually Solomon\u2019s conversations with his son about what he was going to face\u2014not only as a young man\u2014but all throughout his life.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs God would have it, a friend of mine, who sends me a Proverb every day, sent me this Proverb today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, wow.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Proverbs, Chapter 6, verse 27: \u201cCan a man carry fire next to his chest and his clothes not be burned?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m going to read the next few verses.\u00a0 \u201cOr can one walk on hot coals, and his feet not be scorched?\u00a0 So is he who goes into his neighbor\u2019s wife.\u00a0 None who touches her will go unpunished.\u201d\u00a0 <br><br>This passage\u2014and what Solomon was saying to his son\u2014he was warning him that there are consequences when you break your covenant\u2014no matter how you arrive at that point\u2014whether it\u2019s\u2014as you\u2019ve mentioned, Bob, a ten-year marriage that has drifted into isolation\u2014where two people are now enemies and strangers with each other.\u00a0 Regardless, the temptations of the world are out there; and they can lure us outside the marriage relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And let me ask you to go back because we got to the point where you had announced to your wife what was happening.\u00a0 You tell your story in the book you\u2019ve written called <em>Beyond Ordinary<\/em>.\u00a0 You\u2019d been back, for three months, from a ten-year anniversary cruise.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Your relationship with another woman\u2014Tell us how that started.\u00a0 Had that already started before the cruise, or did it start after the cruise?\u00a0 Do you remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 The inappropriateness of the relationship did not start until after the cruise.\u00a0 There had been\u2014and I share this in the book\u2014but there had been\u2014not just a ten-year drifting in our marriage, I had carried a ten-year addiction to pornography.\u00a0 I had been sexually abused when I was a kid and never received help for that\u2014never gone to counseling for that.\u00a0 I had accumulated all this baggage that I\u2019d never talked about with Trish\u2014never gotten help for, never talked about with anyone.\u00a0 <br><br>I thought\u2014in a broken person\u2019s mind\u2014I\u2019m not saying this is a rational thought or even a godly thought\u2014but I convinced myself that I was protecting our marriage by keeping this a secret because, \u201cShe couldn\u2019t handle it.\u201d\u00a0 There were already so many issues in our marriage\u2014or already so many complications of our marriage\u2014\u201cIf I bring this into it, it\u2019s over.\u00a0 It can\u2019t be over because I\u2019m in ministry.\u201d\u00a0 There was just\u2014it was a lot of rationalizing and a lot of\u2014I just felt trapped.\u00a0 I felt like I was, literally, behind an eight ball; and I couldn\u2019t win.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just have to know about how you did the rationalization part in your own mind\u2014first, with the pornography\u2014then, with the attraction to somebody outside of your marriage and then carrying through on that.\u00a0 What were you saying to yourself?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I think there was this belief, especially in the area of pornography, that, \u201cThis is the last time.\u00a0 I promise I\u2019ll never do that again.\u00a0 So, I don\u2019t have to confess it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ten years of that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, right.\u00a0 It was\u2014\u201cI\u2019m strong enough.\u201d\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t\u2014this wasn\u2019t a daily addiction for me.\u00a0 It was a compulsive addiction for me.\u00a0 You know, going through counseling, I learned that there were triggers that occurred in my life\u2014stress, marital conflict, uncertainty, feeling pressure, too, that the ministry brings along, or that even a career brings along.\u00a0 I turned to that to relieve that stress rather than turning to the Lord.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s why we wrote the book is because what we\u2019ve come to realize is that the divorce rate for people in the church is no different than people outside the church.\u00a0 So, the people who are divorcing\u2014they are going to church.\u00a0 They\u2019re singing the songs.\u00a0 They\u2019re praying the prayers.\u00a0 They\u2019re just not transforming.\u00a0 That was me.\u00a0 I was a pastor, for goodness\u2019 sake; but yet, I wasn\u2019t transforming.\u00a0 It was because I was asking God to change my behavior rather than change my heart.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What prompted you, on that afternoon, when you walked in and your wife\u2019s taking a nap\u2014what prompted you to confess that day?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 The relationship had been going on for about three weeks.\u00a0 We\u2019d been friends with this couple for seven years.\u00a0 We had a long-standing relationship with them; but as far as the sinful part of that relationship was concerned, it had been going on for just a short time.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just couldn\u2019t hide the lie anymore.\u00a0 I couldn\u2019t\u2014I had spoken that morning on the importance of godly relationships and literally just felt sick that I was living this double life.\u00a0 So, \u201cI just need to confess it all.\u201d\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t a confession of remorse.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t a confession of repentance.\u00a0 It was a confession of resignation.\u00a0 I was done.\u00a0 I was done with ministry.\u00a0 I was done with my marriage.\u00a0 I felt like I had failed in all of it.\u00a0 So, \u201cIf I could just leave all of it behind and start over, then, maybe I could put my life back together.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, Trish, what was your response after he had admitted the affair?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 I mean, obviously, I completely freaked out.\u00a0 I was just in shock.\u00a0 I knew, but I didn\u2019t know.\u00a0 I knew we were bad.\u00a0 I guess I just didn\u2019t want to face how bad we were.\u00a0 I ended up leaving the house, and went to a close friend, and called the elders.\u00a0 You know, it kind of progressed from there.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll be honest.\u00a0 I think I was more mad at God because I didn\u2019t understand why God didn\u2019t step in.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t understand why God didn\u2019t protect me when, in my mind, I was faithful.\u00a0 Now, do I have issues?\u00a0 Yes, but I have always\u2014and even to this today\u2014have a deep love for Justin\u2014like, \u201cThere is something wrong with me,\u201d and, \u201cMaybe You aren\u2019t trustworthy, God.\u201d\u00a0 I was angry.\u00a0 I was so angry.\u00a0 It took that next year of the restoration process of really dying to all the preconceived ideas of who I thought Jesus was supposed to be in my life, and how much of our married life I had made Justin Jesus\u2014like Justin was my Messiah.\u00a0 He was the one who was supposed to have us have a great marriage because he was a pastor.\u00a0 He was all these things; and I held him to a standard that God had never intended for our relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was a lot of redefining\u2014a lot of me saying to myself, \u201cIf I\u2019m going to\u201d\u2014beyondordinary, obviously\u2014\u201cme looking at Justin\u2019s sin and trying to help him figure it out is not working.\u00a0 I need to figure out my own stuff.\u201d\u00a0 I was at a crossroads that I wanted to choose something different.\u00a0 In those first days, I wasn\u2019t choosing something different for Justin.\u00a0 I really was choosing something different for the sake of our boys.\u00a0 I would do whatever it would take for, at least, for me to stay sane and for me to be a good mom.\u00a0 I had no idea that God could truly, not redeem our relationship, but allow that old relationship to die and give us the relationship we have today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat relationship is extraordinary because we live in full intimacy\u2014where we are fully-known\u2014even in our awful side, our dark side, our struggles\u2014even to this day\u2014that we are still fully-known, and we\u2019re not looking to each other to heal it.\u00a0 We are looking to Jesus; but we get to be with each other, along the journey.\u00a0 That makes me love Justin deeper, on a daily basis.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Justin, you mentioned earlier you were not repentant.\u00a0 You were resigned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were done!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were done in the marriage.\u00a0 What moved you to repentance?\u00a0 And how did you repent?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, the night of the confession, I had nowhere to go.\u00a0 I had kind of strategized my first couple of moves.\u00a0 My first strategy was to confess to Trish.\u00a0 Then, I was going to need to resign from the church that we had started.\u00a0 I did that.\u00a0 Then, I didn\u2019t have a plan.\u00a0 So, I just went to a hotel.\u00a0 When I got there, a lady from our church called.\u00a0 She said, \u201cIf you have any desire to reconcile your marriage, you need to go to this counseling appointment we made for you tomorrow.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI show up to the counselor\u2019s office, and I\u2019m kind of in a defiant disposition.\u00a0 I sat down with the counselor.\u00a0 She said, \u201cWhat do hope to accomplish with this?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cHere\u2019s what I want you to help me figure out.\u00a0 I\u2019ve lived my entire life for God, and I\u2019m still in this place.\u00a0 I want you to help me figure out how God is going to bless my life, no matter who I choose.\u00a0 That\u2019s what I want.\u201d\u00a0 She made some small talk for a few more minutes but basically said, \u201cI can\u2019t help you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI left that counseling appointment and felt like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going the direction I want to go.\u201d\u00a0 I went to my parents\u2019 house that night to share with my siblings and my parents the choices that I had made.\u00a0 My brother, who was not close with God at the time, just went off on me like, \u201cWhat kind of legacy are you leaving for your kids?\u00a0 I looked up to you.\u00a0 You\u2019re the only picture of God I\u2019ve ever had in my life; and now, you\u2019ve crushed it!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was the first time I felt like an arrow penetrated the barrier that I had put around my heart because, when you are in a dark place, you almost have to divorce yourself from the emotional carnage you are causing the people that love you the most and that you love the most.\u00a0 I had to shut myself off to what I was doing to my boys.\u00a0 I had to shut myself off to what I was doing to Trish, and to my extended family, and to the church, and all these people who had loved me and supported me, unconditionally.\u00a0 The emotion finally came back.\u00a0 The next day, I woke up feeling like I had just had the most intense spiritual battle of my life.\u00a0 I felt like there was a battle for my heart that had gone on, and I wanted to choose Jesus.\u00a0 So, I went back to the counselor\u2019s office that I went to the day before.\u00a0 I just said, \u201cI want a fresh start.\u00a0 I want to heal.\u00a0 I want to get better.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time that that was taking place, Trish was packing up my stuff.\u00a0 She had been advised, because I wasn\u2019t repentant, to kick me out.\u00a0 That the best way to allow me to experience brokenness was not to have her enable me.\u00a0 There was a couple that had agreed to allow me to stay at their house until either Trish and I got divorced or until we put our marriage back together.\u00a0 I left the counseling appointment.\u00a0 He picked me up and drove me to his house.\u00a0 I remember walking in.\u00a0 As we walked into his house, he said, \u201cI just want you to know it\u2019s going to feel like it\u2019s over, but I don\u2019t think it is over.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started going to counseling and started trying to put the pieces together of, \u201cHow could I be a Christian?\u00a0 There has to be something below the surface,\u201d because what we came to realize later on, and what we know today, is that the affair was just a symptom of much deeper issues that I carried in my heart\u2014that we allowed to grow in our marriage.\u00a0 So, rather than just change the circumstances, rather than change our behavior, rather than just talking nicer to each other or say, \u201cYou\u2019re sorry,\u201d at the end of an argument\u2014\u201cHow can we truly allow God to change our heart?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s what I wanted to know.\u00a0 That\u2019s what I was begging the counselor to teach me, \u201cTeach me how to experience heart transformation.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s kind of the process that I went on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You said that during the time you were a pastor in those ten years, you\u2019d had people in your congregation who had come to you guys and said, \u201cHey, we\u2019ll pay for you to go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 We had a couple in our church\u2014they\u2019re dear friend of ours today\u2014and their marriage was saved.\u00a0 They were literally on the brink of divorce.\u00a0 They went to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage conference.\u00a0 Halfway through the weekend, God just gave them a breakthrough.\u00a0 It was a story they had probably told us three or four times.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey would stand in our core group meetings and hand out FamilyLife brochures to all of our core group, when we were starting the church\u2014just being an evangelist for FamilyLife.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn my mind, Bob, honestly, this is more arrogant than this story I tell in the first chapter of the book.\u00a0 I thought, \u201cI\u2019m a pastor.\u00a0 I do counseling.\u00a0 I don\u2019t go to counseling.\u201d\u00a0 There was this resistance that I had to receiving help because I viewed help as a sign of weakness rather than a sign of strength and humility\u2014like it truly is.\u00a0 So, they\u2019d come to Trish and I\u2014and I don\u2019t know if it was just because of their belief in FamilyLife, or if they saw the cracks in the foundation of our relationship, or probably a combination of both\u2014but they said, \u201cYou guys need to get away.\u00a0 You guys need to go to this.\u00a0 All expenses paid.\u00a0 We\u2019ll fly you.\u00a0 Pick one.\u00a0 We\u2019ll fly you anywhere in the country.\u00a0 You don\u2019t have to go to the one in Indianapolis.\u201d\u00a0 In my mind, I thought, \u201cI can\u2019t take off a Sunday to go do that.\u00a0 I\u2019ve got better things to do.\u00a0 Our marriage is fine.\u201d\u00a0 Obviously, it wasn\u2019t fine.\u00a0 And who wants a fine marriage, anyway?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, really?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let me just remind our listeners, if I can, right here.\u00a0 This week and next week, we are offering a special offer for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\u00a0 You want to attend one of the upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways?\u00a0 The conference season starts in about a month.\u00a0 You\u2019re going to be at the Washington National Hotel, the Gaylord Hotel, in Washington, D C, that opening weekend, right before Valentine\u2019s Day.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to be at the Hershey Lodge, the next weekend, out in Pennsylvania.\u00a0 Then, there are dozens of these events happening, throughout the country, throughout the spring.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to attend, now is the time to sign up because if you sign up this week or next week, and you register for yourself, your spouse comes for no additional charge.\u00a0 It\u2019s a buy one\/get one free registration offer.\u00a0 You do have to identify yourself as a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Fill out the registration form online.\u00a0 Type my name\u2014type \u201cBOB\u201d\u2014in the promotional code box that you find on the registration form.\u00a0 Or simply call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Say that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and you\u2019d like to register and take advantage of this special offer.\u00a0 We\u2019ll get you signed up for one of these events.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCome do some preventive maintenance on your marriage at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>.\u00a0 Don\u2019t let your marriage get to the point that the Davis\u2019s marriage got to.\u00a0 Take care of it.\u00a0 Maintain it.\u00a0 Do something special for it.\u00a0 It\u2019s a fun weekend getaway for the two of you.\u00a0 We hope you\u2019ll take advantage of the special offer and come join us at one of these <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways this spring.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Trish, I have to ask you.\u00a0 You didn\u2019t go to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>.\u00a0 Instead, you found yourself at this spot\u2014where, ultimately, your husband did come home\u2014truly, truly come home\u2014his heart to your heart.\u00a0 How did he confess and how did you forgive him?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think it was a process\u2014even when we started going to counseling, I would leave those counseling visits and that grieving was still there.\u00a0 It was exhausting.\u00a0 I was just frustrated that I felt like we were doing\u2014again, reverting back to my old ways\u2014or doing the right things; but, \u201cI\u2019m not seeing the fruits of my labor.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t until Justin decided to confess everything to me\u2014he confessed about the pornography.\u00a0 He confessed about being abused as a child, not once, but by two different people.\u00a0 He even confessed that he was never recruited to the University of Evansville\u2014 which seemed so small in all that he had just told me\u2014but in his mind, it meant so much for him to be truth-filled, even about that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re talking being recruited as a basketball player?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right and that was a lie that I had been telling since I was 18.\u00a0 I\u2019d come to convince myself that it was true.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You told people you had been recruited.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, yes.\u00a0 So, I come to her and I say, \u201cI have all these things I need to confess to you.\u201d\u00a0 I start with pornography.\u00a0 I say, \u201cI was sexually abused.\u00a0 I\u2019ve never received help for it.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cI\u2019m not using it as an excuse.\u00a0 I\u2019m just telling you I\u2019ve been advised to share that with you, and that\u2019s relevant information for our situation.\u201d\u00a0 She was very shocked but very receptive to that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I said, \u201cI have one more thing.\u201d\u00a0 I could tell\u2014just a look of defeat on her face.\u00a0 She said, \u201cWhat?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cI was never recruited to play basketball at the University of Evansville.\u201d\u00a0 Then, the sense of relief\u2014but for me, what I have come to realize is that when you don\u2019t have the ability to tell yourself the truth, it\u2019s impossible for you to tell the truth to others.\u00a0 When you are lying to yourself, there is an inability you have to be completely honest with someone else.\u00a0 That was kind of the final piece for me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014just to be able to surrender that to her and to the Lord.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 With that confession, that feeling\u2014that grieving\u2014was gone.\u00a0 We had finally hit rock bottom.\u00a0 It was painful, but we finally had solid ground to stand on.\u00a0 We had never had that before.\u00a0 I had no idea what the future held; but I knew, for the first time in our marriage relationship, we were fully-known.\u00a0 There\u2019s something that\u2019s attractive to that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPeople ask me all the time, \u201cWell, don\u2019t you fear that he\u2019ll fall into pornography addiction?\u201d or, \u201cAs you get older,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m not going to look young, and I\u2019ve had three kids, gained 30 pounds, three different times, and lost it\u2014\u201chow do you compete with that?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a passage in <em>The Message<\/em> translation that says that we live in a sexually- deviant world\u2014like that\u2019s just obvious.\u00a0 That\u2019s the truth of it.\u00a0 That\u2019s our reality, but that the marriage bed is stronger because the marriage bed is beyond just a physical act\u2014it\u2019s both emotional, and physical, and spiritual.\u00a0 Although pornography provided something for him in the moment, it\u2019s not sustainable.\u00a0 But we had never been able to experience that because there was always that breaking.\u00a0 That\u2019s what has become attractive.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m not saying that Justin will never struggle; but I know that the more that we continue to be honest with each other\u2014that when we mutually offer ourselves to each other physically\u2014that will outshine any image that you\u2019re going to see on the internet.\u00a0 I think that that is the hope that I want women and I want married couples to know because I think they feel defeated.\u00a0 I think they feel like, \u201cWe can\u2019t compete in this sexually-deviant world;\u201d and we can\u2019t.\u00a0 That\u2019s why God created something that\u2019s even better and even more beautiful.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s interesting, Trish, you didn\u2019t ever really use the word forgive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, I didn\u2019t!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014but you just described what forgiveness looks like.\u00a0 It\u2019s moving beyond punishing someone, and giving up the right to punish them and hurt them back for hurting us, and move on with a vision toward the future of intimacy.\u00a0 You just described it beautifully.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s more than just saying the words.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 A lot of folks think, \u201cWell, I said the words,\u201d but nothing really happened in their heart.\u00a0 You described what real forgiveness looks like.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and I just want you both to know\u2014first of all, I appreciate you being transparent and sharing your story in your book and, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can\u2019t help but wonder what would have happened if you would have taken your friends up\u2014who offered to send you to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> on three different occasions\u2014but you didn\u2019t go.\u00a0 Your marriage today is a great statement of redemption\u2014a trophy of grace\u2014of two people who are still broken, still exhibiting a covenant love for one another.\u00a0 I just appreciate your courage\u2014appreciate your openness about that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I\u2019m glad to be on the team with you.\u00a0 You know, you are on the Kingdom team; we are, too.\u00a0 It\u2019s a privilege to serve the King of kings and Lord of lords with you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we are so honored to just be invited into this space and to partner with people who share our passion to help people have marriages and families that reflect God, and His love, and His forgiveness, and His grace.\u00a0 So, it\u2019s truly a privilege for us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I hope folks will get copies of your book, <em>Beyond Ordinary<\/em>.\u00a0 We\u2019ve got it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 Listeners are welcome to go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the book.\u00a0 Again, it\u2019s titled <em>Beyond Ordinary.<\/em>\u00a0 You can order from us, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 We\u2019ll get a copy of Justin and Trish\u2019s book sent out to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear from a pastor with some wise counsel\u2014this time, for pre-marrieds\u2014about what to look for as you consider someone as a potential spouse.\u00a0 We\u2019ll hear from Pastor Tommy Nelson tomorrow with some guidelines for a successful marriage.\u00a0 I hope you can tune in for that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.93M"],"filesize_raw":["29287245"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302670.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302670.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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and Trish Davis talk frankly about the problems that almost sunk their marriage and ministry until God\u2019s truth and healing brought them back to solid ground.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2013-01-16.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Trisha Davis learned, in her marriage, that sometimes things have to hit the bottom before you find a rock you can stand on.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 Even though I\u2019ve been wounded so much\u2014you know, we\u2019ve been married ten years now.\u00a0 He\u2019s had an affair.\u00a0 I\u2019ve lost my husband, I\u2019ve lost my church family, I\u2019ve lost my friends, I\u2019m losing my home.\u00a0 I mean, you lose everything.\u00a0 The gift in that is that God is still enough.\u00a0 If God is still enough when you are there, He has to be enough to help me to understand my own issues so that, then, I can love in the extraordinary.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, January 16<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 When your marriage seems like it is hopeless, there is still hope\u2014as we\u2019ll hear today.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I feel like we need to back up a little bit from where we are this week.\u00a0 We\u2019ve been hearing a story from our guests, Justin and Trish Davis\u2014and by the way, welcome back guys.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you very much.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Nice to have you here.\u00a0 It\u2019s a story, Dennis, of a couple who met in college, fell in love, got married, found themselves in ministry, and found themselves starting to drift\u2014which is a course that a lot of marriages take\u2014whether you are in ministry or not.\u00a0 Marriages drift away.\u00a0 You drift toward isolation.\u00a0 We talk about that at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaway, regularly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I should mention, here, that this week and next week, we are offering <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners an opportunity to attend one of those getaways this spring at a special rate.\u00a0 When you register for yourself, your spouse comes for free.\u00a0 It\u2019s a buy one\/get one free registration offer.\u00a0 It\u2019s good this week and next week.\u00a0 It\u2019s for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\u00a0 If you want to take advantage of it, go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Fill out the registration form, and type my name\u2014type \u201cBOB\u201d\u2014in the promotional code box that you find on the registration form.\u00a0 Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and mention that you\u2019d like to attend a conference\u2014that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and that you want to take advantage of the special offer.\u00a0 Again, it\u2019s a buy one\/get one free offer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can register for any of the dozens of events that we\u2019re going to be hosting in cities, all across the country, this spring.\u00a0 Dennis is going to be at the event in Washington, DC, coming up right before Valentine\u2019s Day.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to be at the Hershey Lodge in Pennsylvania, right after Valentine\u2019s Day.\u00a0 You can come to one of those two events or any of these events that we\u2019re going to be putting on throughout the spring.\u00a0 Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and to take advantage of the special offer that we\u2019re making for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut back to the story that we\u2019re hearing this week from Justin and Trisha Davis\u2014you guys had started to drift toward isolation in your marriage.\u00a0 You were strangers to the point that, at the ten-year mark in your marriage, Justin, you walked into the bedroom, one Sunday afternoon, as Trisha was taking a nap.\u00a0 You woke her up and you said, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be in this marriage anymore.\u00a0 I don\u2019t love you, and I\u2019m having an affair with one of your friends.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And as I was thinking about their story and reading through their book, I thought of Proverbs, Chapter 6.\u00a0 I\u2019ve written a little book for dads and moms to prepare their sons for the enticing woman.\u00a0 It\u2019s called <em>Aggressive Girls, Clueless Boys<\/em>.\u00a0 It\u2019s actually Solomon\u2019s conversations with his son about what he was going to face\u2014not only as a young man\u2014but all throughout his life.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs God would have it, a friend of mine, who sends me a Proverb every day, sent me this Proverb today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, wow.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Proverbs, Chapter 6, verse 27: \u201cCan a man carry fire next to his chest and his clothes not be burned?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m going to read the next few verses.\u00a0 \u201cOr can one walk on hot coals, and his feet not be scorched?\u00a0 So is he who goes into his neighbor\u2019s wife.\u00a0 None who touches her will go unpunished.\u201d\u00a0 <br><br>This passage\u2014and what Solomon was saying to his son\u2014he was warning him that there are consequences when you break your covenant\u2014no matter how you arrive at that point\u2014whether it\u2019s\u2014as you\u2019ve mentioned, Bob, a ten-year marriage that has drifted into isolation\u2014where two people are now enemies and strangers with each other.\u00a0 Regardless, the temptations of the world are out there; and they can lure us outside the marriage relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And let me ask you to go back because we got to the point where you had announced to your wife what was happening.\u00a0 You tell your story in the book you\u2019ve written called <em>Beyond Ordinary<\/em>.\u00a0 You\u2019d been back, for three months, from a ten-year anniversary cruise.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Your relationship with another woman\u2014Tell us how that started.\u00a0 Had that already started before the cruise, or did it start after the cruise?\u00a0 Do you remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 The inappropriateness of the relationship did not start until after the cruise.\u00a0 There had been\u2014and I share this in the book\u2014but there had been\u2014not just a ten-year drifting in our marriage, I had carried a ten-year addiction to pornography.\u00a0 I had been sexually abused when I was a kid and never received help for that\u2014never gone to counseling for that.\u00a0 I had accumulated all this baggage that I\u2019d never talked about with Trish\u2014never gotten help for, never talked about with anyone.\u00a0 <br><br>I thought\u2014in a broken person\u2019s mind\u2014I\u2019m not saying this is a rational thought or even a godly thought\u2014but I convinced myself that I was protecting our marriage by keeping this a secret because, \u201cShe couldn\u2019t handle it.\u201d\u00a0 There were already so many issues in our marriage\u2014or already so many complications of our marriage\u2014\u201cIf I bring this into it, it\u2019s over.\u00a0 It can\u2019t be over because I\u2019m in ministry.\u201d\u00a0 There was just\u2014it was a lot of rationalizing and a lot of\u2014I just felt trapped.\u00a0 I felt like I was, literally, behind an eight ball; and I couldn\u2019t win.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just have to know about how you did the rationalization part in your own mind\u2014first, with the pornography\u2014then, with the attraction to somebody outside of your marriage and then carrying through on that.\u00a0 What were you saying to yourself?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I think there was this belief, especially in the area of pornography, that, \u201cThis is the last time.\u00a0 I promise I\u2019ll never do that again.\u00a0 So, I don\u2019t have to confess it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ten years of that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, right.\u00a0 It was\u2014\u201cI\u2019m strong enough.\u201d\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t\u2014this wasn\u2019t a daily addiction for me.\u00a0 It was a compulsive addiction for me.\u00a0 You know, going through counseling, I learned that there were triggers that occurred in my life\u2014stress, marital conflict, uncertainty, feeling pressure, too, that the ministry brings along, or that even a career brings along.\u00a0 I turned to that to relieve that stress rather than turning to the Lord.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s why we wrote the book is because what we\u2019ve come to realize is that the divorce rate for people in the church is no different than people outside the church.\u00a0 So, the people who are divorcing\u2014they are going to church.\u00a0 They\u2019re singing the songs.\u00a0 They\u2019re praying the prayers.\u00a0 They\u2019re just not transforming.\u00a0 That was me.\u00a0 I was a pastor, for goodness\u2019 sake; but yet, I wasn\u2019t transforming.\u00a0 It was because I was asking God to change my behavior rather than change my heart.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What prompted you, on that afternoon, when you walked in and your wife\u2019s taking a nap\u2014what prompted you to confess that day?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 The relationship had been going on for about three weeks.\u00a0 We\u2019d been friends with this couple for seven years.\u00a0 We had a long-standing relationship with them; but as far as the sinful part of that relationship was concerned, it had been going on for just a short time.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just couldn\u2019t hide the lie anymore.\u00a0 I couldn\u2019t\u2014I had spoken that morning on the importance of godly relationships and literally just felt sick that I was living this double life.\u00a0 So, \u201cI just need to confess it all.\u201d\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t a confession of remorse.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t a confession of repentance.\u00a0 It was a confession of resignation.\u00a0 I was done.\u00a0 I was done with ministry.\u00a0 I was done with my marriage.\u00a0 I felt like I had failed in all of it.\u00a0 So, \u201cIf I could just leave all of it behind and start over, then, maybe I could put my life back together.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, Trish, what was your response after he had admitted the affair?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 I mean, obviously, I completely freaked out.\u00a0 I was just in shock.\u00a0 I knew, but I didn\u2019t know.\u00a0 I knew we were bad.\u00a0 I guess I just didn\u2019t want to face how bad we were.\u00a0 I ended up leaving the house, and went to a close friend, and called the elders.\u00a0 You know, it kind of progressed from there.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll be honest.\u00a0 I think I was more mad at God because I didn\u2019t understand why God didn\u2019t step in.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t understand why God didn\u2019t protect me when, in my mind, I was faithful.\u00a0 Now, do I have issues?\u00a0 Yes, but I have always\u2014and even to this today\u2014have a deep love for Justin\u2014like, \u201cThere is something wrong with me,\u201d and, \u201cMaybe You aren\u2019t trustworthy, God.\u201d\u00a0 I was angry.\u00a0 I was so angry.\u00a0 It took that next year of the restoration process of really dying to all the preconceived ideas of who I thought Jesus was supposed to be in my life, and how much of our married life I had made Justin Jesus\u2014like Justin was my Messiah.\u00a0 He was the one who was supposed to have us have a great marriage because he was a pastor.\u00a0 He was all these things; and I held him to a standard that God had never intended for our relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was a lot of redefining\u2014a lot of me saying to myself, \u201cIf I\u2019m going to\u201d\u2014beyondordinary, obviously\u2014\u201cme looking at Justin\u2019s sin and trying to help him figure it out is not working.\u00a0 I need to figure out my own stuff.\u201d\u00a0 I was at a crossroads that I wanted to choose something different.\u00a0 In those first days, I wasn\u2019t choosing something different for Justin.\u00a0 I really was choosing something different for the sake of our boys.\u00a0 I would do whatever it would take for, at least, for me to stay sane and for me to be a good mom.\u00a0 I had no idea that God could truly, not redeem our relationship, but allow that old relationship to die and give us the relationship we have today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat relationship is extraordinary because we live in full intimacy\u2014where we are fully-known\u2014even in our awful side, our dark side, our struggles\u2014even to this day\u2014that we are still fully-known, and we\u2019re not looking to each other to heal it.\u00a0 We are looking to Jesus; but we get to be with each other, along the journey.\u00a0 That makes me love Justin deeper, on a daily basis.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Justin, you mentioned earlier you were not repentant.\u00a0 You were resigned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were done!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were done in the marriage.\u00a0 What moved you to repentance?\u00a0 And how did you repent?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, the night of the confession, I had nowhere to go.\u00a0 I had kind of strategized my first couple of moves.\u00a0 My first strategy was to confess to Trish.\u00a0 Then, I was going to need to resign from the church that we had started.\u00a0 I did that.\u00a0 Then, I didn\u2019t have a plan.\u00a0 So, I just went to a hotel.\u00a0 When I got there, a lady from our church called.\u00a0 She said, \u201cIf you have any desire to reconcile your marriage, you need to go to this counseling appointment we made for you tomorrow.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI show up to the counselor\u2019s office, and I\u2019m kind of in a defiant disposition.\u00a0 I sat down with the counselor.\u00a0 She said, \u201cWhat do hope to accomplish with this?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cHere\u2019s what I want you to help me figure out.\u00a0 I\u2019ve lived my entire life for God, and I\u2019m still in this place.\u00a0 I want you to help me figure out how God is going to bless my life, no matter who I choose.\u00a0 That\u2019s what I want.\u201d\u00a0 She made some small talk for a few more minutes but basically said, \u201cI can\u2019t help you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI left that counseling appointment and felt like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going the direction I want to go.\u201d\u00a0 I went to my parents\u2019 house that night to share with my siblings and my parents the choices that I had made.\u00a0 My brother, who was not close with God at the time, just went off on me like, \u201cWhat kind of legacy are you leaving for your kids?\u00a0 I looked up to you.\u00a0 You\u2019re the only picture of God I\u2019ve ever had in my life; and now, you\u2019ve crushed it!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was the first time I felt like an arrow penetrated the barrier that I had put around my heart because, when you are in a dark place, you almost have to divorce yourself from the emotional carnage you are causing the people that love you the most and that you love the most.\u00a0 I had to shut myself off to what I was doing to my boys.\u00a0 I had to shut myself off to what I was doing to Trish, and to my extended family, and to the church, and all these people who had loved me and supported me, unconditionally.\u00a0 The emotion finally came back.\u00a0 The next day, I woke up feeling like I had just had the most intense spiritual battle of my life.\u00a0 I felt like there was a battle for my heart that had gone on, and I wanted to choose Jesus.\u00a0 So, I went back to the counselor\u2019s office that I went to the day before.\u00a0 I just said, \u201cI want a fresh start.\u00a0 I want to heal.\u00a0 I want to get better.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time that that was taking place, Trish was packing up my stuff.\u00a0 She had been advised, because I wasn\u2019t repentant, to kick me out.\u00a0 That the best way to allow me to experience brokenness was not to have her enable me.\u00a0 There was a couple that had agreed to allow me to stay at their house until either Trish and I got divorced or until we put our marriage back together.\u00a0 I left the counseling appointment.\u00a0 He picked me up and drove me to his house.\u00a0 I remember walking in.\u00a0 As we walked into his house, he said, \u201cI just want you to know it\u2019s going to feel like it\u2019s over, but I don\u2019t think it is over.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI started going to counseling and started trying to put the pieces together of, \u201cHow could I be a Christian?\u00a0 There has to be something below the surface,\u201d because what we came to realize later on, and what we know today, is that the affair was just a symptom of much deeper issues that I carried in my heart\u2014that we allowed to grow in our marriage.\u00a0 So, rather than just change the circumstances, rather than change our behavior, rather than just talking nicer to each other or say, \u201cYou\u2019re sorry,\u201d at the end of an argument\u2014\u201cHow can we truly allow God to change our heart?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s what I wanted to know.\u00a0 That\u2019s what I was begging the counselor to teach me, \u201cTeach me how to experience heart transformation.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s kind of the process that I went on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You said that during the time you were a pastor in those ten years, you\u2019d had people in your congregation who had come to you guys and said, \u201cHey, we\u2019ll pay for you to go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 We had a couple in our church\u2014they\u2019re dear friend of ours today\u2014and their marriage was saved.\u00a0 They were literally on the brink of divorce.\u00a0 They went to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage conference.\u00a0 Halfway through the weekend, God just gave them a breakthrough.\u00a0 It was a story they had probably told us three or four times.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey would stand in our core group meetings and hand out FamilyLife brochures to all of our core group, when we were starting the church\u2014just being an evangelist for FamilyLife.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn my mind, Bob, honestly, this is more arrogant than this story I tell in the first chapter of the book.\u00a0 I thought, \u201cI\u2019m a pastor.\u00a0 I do counseling.\u00a0 I don\u2019t go to counseling.\u201d\u00a0 There was this resistance that I had to receiving help because I viewed help as a sign of weakness rather than a sign of strength and humility\u2014like it truly is.\u00a0 So, they\u2019d come to Trish and I\u2014and I don\u2019t know if it was just because of their belief in FamilyLife, or if they saw the cracks in the foundation of our relationship, or probably a combination of both\u2014but they said, \u201cYou guys need to get away.\u00a0 You guys need to go to this.\u00a0 All expenses paid.\u00a0 We\u2019ll fly you.\u00a0 Pick one.\u00a0 We\u2019ll fly you anywhere in the country.\u00a0 You don\u2019t have to go to the one in Indianapolis.\u201d\u00a0 In my mind, I thought, \u201cI can\u2019t take off a Sunday to go do that.\u00a0 I\u2019ve got better things to do.\u00a0 Our marriage is fine.\u201d\u00a0 Obviously, it wasn\u2019t fine.\u00a0 And who wants a fine marriage, anyway?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, really?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let me just remind our listeners, if I can, right here.\u00a0 This week and next week, we are offering a special offer for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\u00a0 You want to attend one of the upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways?\u00a0 The conference season starts in about a month.\u00a0 You\u2019re going to be at the Washington National Hotel, the Gaylord Hotel, in Washington, D C, that opening weekend, right before Valentine\u2019s Day.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to be at the Hershey Lodge, the next weekend, out in Pennsylvania.\u00a0 Then, there are dozens of these events happening, throughout the country, throughout the spring.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019d like to attend, now is the time to sign up because if you sign up this week or next week, and you register for yourself, your spouse comes for no additional charge.\u00a0 It\u2019s a buy one\/get one free registration offer.\u00a0 You do have to identify yourself as a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Fill out the registration form online.\u00a0 Type my name\u2014type \u201cBOB\u201d\u2014in the promotional code box that you find on the registration form.\u00a0 Or simply call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Say that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and you\u2019d like to register and take advantage of this special offer.\u00a0 We\u2019ll get you signed up for one of these events.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCome do some preventive maintenance on your marriage at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>.\u00a0 Don\u2019t let your marriage get to the point that the Davis\u2019s marriage got to.\u00a0 Take care of it.\u00a0 Maintain it.\u00a0 Do something special for it.\u00a0 It\u2019s a fun weekend getaway for the two of you.\u00a0 We hope you\u2019ll take advantage of the special offer and come join us at one of these <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways this spring.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Trish, I have to ask you.\u00a0 You didn\u2019t go to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>.\u00a0 Instead, you found yourself at this spot\u2014where, ultimately, your husband did come home\u2014truly, truly come home\u2014his heart to your heart.\u00a0 How did he confess and how did you forgive him?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think it was a process\u2014even when we started going to counseling, I would leave those counseling visits and that grieving was still there.\u00a0 It was exhausting.\u00a0 I was just frustrated that I felt like we were doing\u2014again, reverting back to my old ways\u2014or doing the right things; but, \u201cI\u2019m not seeing the fruits of my labor.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t until Justin decided to confess everything to me\u2014he confessed about the pornography.\u00a0 He confessed about being abused as a child, not once, but by two different people.\u00a0 He even confessed that he was never recruited to the University of Evansville\u2014 which seemed so small in all that he had just told me\u2014but in his mind, it meant so much for him to be truth-filled, even about that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re talking being recruited as a basketball player?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right and that was a lie that I had been telling since I was 18.\u00a0 I\u2019d come to convince myself that it was true.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You told people you had been recruited.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, yes.\u00a0 So, I come to her and I say, \u201cI have all these things I need to confess to you.\u201d\u00a0 I start with pornography.\u00a0 I say, \u201cI was sexually abused.\u00a0 I\u2019ve never received help for it.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cI\u2019m not using it as an excuse.\u00a0 I\u2019m just telling you I\u2019ve been advised to share that with you, and that\u2019s relevant information for our situation.\u201d\u00a0 She was very shocked but very receptive to that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I said, \u201cI have one more thing.\u201d\u00a0 I could tell\u2014just a look of defeat on her face.\u00a0 She said, \u201cWhat?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cI was never recruited to play basketball at the University of Evansville.\u201d\u00a0 Then, the sense of relief\u2014but for me, what I have come to realize is that when you don\u2019t have the ability to tell yourself the truth, it\u2019s impossible for you to tell the truth to others.\u00a0 When you are lying to yourself, there is an inability you have to be completely honest with someone else.\u00a0 That was kind of the final piece for me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014just to be able to surrender that to her and to the Lord.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 With that confession, that feeling\u2014that grieving\u2014was gone.\u00a0 We had finally hit rock bottom.\u00a0 It was painful, but we finally had solid ground to stand on.\u00a0 We had never had that before.\u00a0 I had no idea what the future held; but I knew, for the first time in our marriage relationship, we were fully-known.\u00a0 There\u2019s something that\u2019s attractive to that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPeople ask me all the time, \u201cWell, don\u2019t you fear that he\u2019ll fall into pornography addiction?\u201d or, \u201cAs you get older,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m not going to look young, and I\u2019ve had three kids, gained 30 pounds, three different times, and lost it\u2014\u201chow do you compete with that?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a passage in <em>The Message<\/em> translation that says that we live in a sexually- deviant world\u2014like that\u2019s just obvious.\u00a0 That\u2019s the truth of it.\u00a0 That\u2019s our reality, but that the marriage bed is stronger because the marriage bed is beyond just a physical act\u2014it\u2019s both emotional, and physical, and spiritual.\u00a0 Although pornography provided something for him in the moment, it\u2019s not sustainable.\u00a0 But we had never been able to experience that because there was always that breaking.\u00a0 That\u2019s what has become attractive.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m not saying that Justin will never struggle; but I know that the more that we continue to be honest with each other\u2014that when we mutually offer ourselves to each other physically\u2014that will outshine any image that you\u2019re going to see on the internet.\u00a0 I think that that is the hope that I want women and I want married couples to know because I think they feel defeated.\u00a0 I think they feel like, \u201cWe can\u2019t compete in this sexually-deviant world;\u201d and we can\u2019t.\u00a0 That\u2019s why God created something that\u2019s even better and even more beautiful.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s interesting, Trish, you didn\u2019t ever really use the word forgive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Trisha:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, I didn\u2019t!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014but you just described what forgiveness looks like.\u00a0 It\u2019s moving beyond punishing someone, and giving up the right to punish them and hurt them back for hurting us, and move on with a vision toward the future of intimacy.\u00a0 You just described it beautifully.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s more than just saying the words.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 A lot of folks think, \u201cWell, I said the words,\u201d but nothing really happened in their heart.\u00a0 You described what real forgiveness looks like.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and I just want you both to know\u2014first of all, I appreciate you being transparent and sharing your story in your book and, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can\u2019t help but wonder what would have happened if you would have taken your friends up\u2014who offered to send you to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> on three different occasions\u2014but you didn\u2019t go.\u00a0 Your marriage today is a great statement of redemption\u2014a trophy of grace\u2014of two people who are still broken, still exhibiting a covenant love for one another.\u00a0 I just appreciate your courage\u2014appreciate your openness about that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I\u2019m glad to be on the team with you.\u00a0 You know, you are on the Kingdom team; we are, too.\u00a0 It\u2019s a privilege to serve the King of kings and Lord of lords with you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we are so honored to just be invited into this space and to partner with people who share our passion to help people have marriages and families that reflect God, and His love, and His forgiveness, and His grace.\u00a0 So, it\u2019s truly a privilege for us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I hope folks will get copies of your book, <em>Beyond Ordinary<\/em>.\u00a0 We\u2019ve got it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 Listeners are welcome to go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the book.\u00a0 Again, it\u2019s titled <em>Beyond Ordinary.<\/em>\u00a0 You can order from us, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 We\u2019ll get a copy of Justin and Trish\u2019s book sent out to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear from a pastor with some wise counsel\u2014this time, for pre-marrieds\u2014about what to look for as you consider someone as a potential spouse.\u00a0 We\u2019ll hear from Pastor Tommy Nelson tomorrow with some guidelines for a successful marriage.\u00a0 I hope you can tune in for that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2013 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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