{"id":302654,"date":"2012-12-21T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2012-12-21T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/soulmates-unicorns-and-other-myths\/"},"modified":"2012-12-21T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2012-12-21T17:00:00","slug":"soulmates-unicorns-and-other-myths","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/soulmates-unicorns-and-other-myths\/","title":{"rendered":"Soulmates, Unicorns and other Myths"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Are you on a quest to find your soul mate? If so, you may be on the wrong journey.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-12-21.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"21.52M","filesize_raw":"22566642","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2082],"tags":[4018],"podcast_series":[7920],"cwp_profile":[3276],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302654","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-communication","tag-dating","podcast_series-the-upside-down-marriage","cwp_profile-jim-keller","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302654\/soulmates-unicorns-and-other-myths","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302654\/soulmates-unicorns-and-other-myths","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"rJk2WtjMQk\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/soulmates-unicorns-and-other-myths\/\">Soulmates, Unicorns and other Myths<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/soulmates-unicorns-and-other-myths\/embed\/#?secret=rJk2WtjMQk\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Soulmates, Unicorns and other Myths&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"rJk2WtjMQk\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Are you on a quest to find your soul mate? If so, you may be on the wrong journey.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-12-21.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 You know the place in the Bible where Jesus talks about logs and specks\u2014about how easy it is for us to see the speck in someone else\u2019s eye and to miss the log in our own?\u00a0 Author and marriage counselor, Jim Keller, says that\u2019s often true in a marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 The thing I tell couples\u2014I hear this from men and women:\u00a0 \u201cWe went to church,\u201d this husband told me one time.\u00a0 \u201cIt was a perfect sermon for my wife.\u201d\u00a0 I go, \u201cOh, really\u2014a perfect sermon for your wife?\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cYes.\u00a0 I asked her about it later.\u00a0 It didn\u2019t even have an effect.\u201d\u00a0 My question to him was, \u201cWell, was it a perfect sermon for you?\u201d\u00a0 He looked at me like, \u201cWell, yes, I guess.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cWell, did you tell her how God spoke to <em>you<\/em> during that message?\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cNo.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cYou might want to start there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, December 21<sup>st<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 If there are issues or if there\u2019s tension in your marriage relationship, is it possible that the place you ought to look first is at your own stuff?\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about that today.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 Okay, I was starting to go with you on this.\u00a0 We\u2019ve been talking about this book you wrote the \u201cForward\u201d to\u2014<em>The Upside Down <\/em>Marriage\u2014and I asked you earlier about why you wrote a \u201cForward\u201d to a book that says, \u201cDon\u2019t Talk So Much,\u201d \u201cFight More,\u201d \u201cQuit Forgiving All the Time\u201d.\u00a0 These are the chapter titles in this book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cHave Less Sex\u201d. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s the one.\u00a0 I was going with you\u2014I was starting to get there.\u00a0 Chapter 5\u2014Ahh!\u00a0 No! \u2014 \u201cHave Less Sex\u201d.\u00a0 You signed off on this book; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019ve got to talk to the author of this book, Jim Keller.\u00a0 Jim\u2014welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Good to be here.\u00a0 Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 After all the insults Bob gave you, you came back!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 What a friend!\u00a0 I love it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s a privilege.\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jim is the founder and President of Charis Counseling Center in Orlando, Florida.\u00a0 He and his wife Renee have been married for 35 years.\u00a0 They have two kids, four grandchildren; and he has written a book called <em>The Upside Down Marriage.<\/em>\u00a0 Every chapter in here will cause you to scratch your head.\u00a0 In fact, I thought, \u201cYou know, counselors like to be disruptive sometimes; huh?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s what you\u2019re doing here!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sometimes it helps.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 These ten pages, right here\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re disruptive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014from page 77 to page 86.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Explain yourself, \u201cHave Less Sex\u201d.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think we are such a sex-saturated culture that sometimes we become desensitized to it.\u00a0 Couples, generally, as they counsel with me\u2014usually, if they stay long enough\u2014it gets to the topic of their sexual relationship, but the issue is not sex.\u00a0 The issue is intimacy.\u00a0 The whole point of the chapter is\u2014we\u2019re such a quantitative- and technique-oriented culture, when it comes to sex and sexual relationships.\u00a0 It has permeated all areas of our culture.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s great to talk about how often you want to have sex, and it is okay to talk about technique; but it all misses the point.\u00a0 The point is\u2014sex was created by God to capstone the intimate relationship of marriage.\u00a0 It is an intimate act.\u00a0 If we degrade it to the point where we quantify it, and pick it apart, in terms of technique, and what we do, and how we do it, we\u2019ve missed the whole point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You boil it down to the biological, and you\u2019ve missed what\u2019s at the core of it; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ve had this thought many times.\u00a0 Our culture is bombarded on TV, in music, on the internet, with all kinds of messages about sex.\u00a0 I mean, driving down the freeway, sex is used to sell everything from galoshes to prunes, for goodness\u2019 sake.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As a result, I think we, as a culture, have a real difficult time finding a plumb line to say, \u201cHow does this dimension of the marriage relationship fit together?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think many times we don\u2019t have a plumb line at all.\u00a0 I think the reason why we don\u2019t have the plumb line is we\u2019ve lost the purpose.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think couples\u2014especially Christian couples, even\u2014don\u2019t have the idea of what sex really is.\u00a0 Interesting, when Paul is talking to the Church at Corinth\u2014the Church at Corinth had a temple where there were temple prostitutes.\u00a0 Some of the believers were going up and \u201cworshipping\u201d at the temple. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Which had been their pagan\u2014that\u2019s how they had done it in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Which had been their pagan\u2014that\u2019s their culture.\u00a0 They really didn\u2019t think a whole lot of it until Paul writes and says, \u201cLook.\u00a0 You have to understand, when you unite yourself with someone else, there is a spiritual transaction that takes place, even if it\u2019s with someone that you don\u2019t even know their name and don\u2019t care about them\u2014there\u2019s something that transpires during that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0That\u2019s what our culture doesn\u2019t realize.\u00a0 That\u2019s what I want couples to see very clearly\u2014 is that bonding is important.\u00a0 That needs to be the focus when couples get together\u2014not, \u201cHey, let\u2019s just have a great time with having sex,\u201d \u2014which is great, and it\u2019s enjoyable, and it\u2019s fun\u2014but there\u2019s something deeper and more profound that takes place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I tease you about these chapter titles.\u00a0 You\u2019re being intentionally provocative.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Of course.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re getting our attention with the chapter titles.\u00a0 When you sit down with couples, and are working through marital issues around intimacy, what\u2019s at the heart of that?\u00a0 Where are you taking them typically?\u00a0 What are you trying to fix?\u00a0 What are you trying to undo?\u00a0 What are the issues they\u2019re wrestling with?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, what I want them to see is that the things that are impeding their physical intimacy usually are relational, emotional, and spiritual.\u00a0 I want them to do first things first.\u00a0 Sex doesn\u2019t fix a marriage.\u00a0 Sex is the icing on the cake of a good marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want them to see that there are steps that they need to take to communicate with each other, to resolve conflict with each other, and to take the time.\u00a0 This is so interesting to me.\u00a0 I ask couples all the time\u2014be intentional about your physical intimacy.\u00a0 They go, \u201cWhat does that mean?\u201d\u00a0 I say, \u201cPlan it\u2014plan a time of intimacy.\u201d\u00a0 I gave this couple homework.\u00a0 That\u2019s sort of fun homework.\u00a0 Wouldn\u2019t you want to come see me as a counselor?\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey came back and I said, \u201cHow did it go?\u201d\u00a0 They said, \u201cIt was okay.\u00a0 It was fine.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cLet me guess.\u00a0 The time you allotted to your physical intimacy was 30 minutes, and you thought that was a long time.\u201d\u00a0 They both looked at me with these big deer eyes and they said, \u201cHow did you know?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cBecause that\u2019s our culture\u2014this is a 30-minute act.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you take an evening next time, and enjoy each other.\u00a0 Don\u2019t make it so sensual that it\u2019s silly, but enjoy each other emotionally, conversationally, physically, and build your intimacy that way.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s interesting\u2014that couples that have problems\u2014I always ask, \u201cHow do you do when you get away together\u2014when you have a weekend together?\u201d\u00a0 This is why I think <em>Weekends to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup><\/em>work so well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey say, \u201cWe do really well.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cDo you know why you do well?\u00a0 It\u2019s because you\u2019ve got no one else around you.\u00a0 You can focus on each other and you have time together.\u00a0 Build that into your marriage relationship.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You actually challenge couples to give up having sex.\u00a0 You get a response from the men\u2014that I laughed out loud when I read it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, there are couples that come in and the wife is complaining, \u201cThat\u2019s all he wants.\u00a0 This is getting to be boring, irritating, and he\u2019s a whiner.\u201d\u00a0 There are more men that turn into whiners in this area.\u00a0 I\u2019m ashamed of my gender.\u00a0 But there was this one guy that came in and he said, \u201cYes, my wife, she just doesn\u2019t want to have sex anymore.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cI think that would be a good thing to do.\u00a0 I think you need to step back.\u00a0 I think you need to figure out how you\u2019re going to be working on your intimacy without having sex being this be-all and end-all\u2014\u2018If we don\u2019t have this, then we\u2019re really not intimate.\u2019\u00a0 Then, let\u2019s talk about how we really want to do life and do your marriage.\u201d\u00a0 Men don\u2019t like that advice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And what was his response?\u00a0 Remember what he said?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well I asked him, \u201cCan you do it?\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cHow, how\u2014how long will I have to do it?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cYou\u2019re going to have to do it until she invites you back into that relationship.\u201d\u00a0 I don\u2019t remember the exact\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019m reading it right here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cGive up on sex?\u00a0 That\u2019s absurd!\u00a0 If I can\u2019t have sex, I\u2019ll explode.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019ll explode.\u201d\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You guarantee men, in here, they will not explode.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I know.\u00a0 I challenge wives all the time to\u2014on their iPhone or video machine\u2014to see if they can catch an explosion of a guy not having sex for a long period of time. But I hear that from more people\u2014more men.\u00a0 \u201cOh, I\u2019ll just explode!\u201d\u00a0 I go, \u201cReally?\u00a0 Wow!\u00a0 That\u2019s interesting.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are couples\u2014we\u2019ve talked to them at <em>Weekends to Remember<\/em> \u2014who will come in and say, \u201cIt\u2019s been two years.\u00a0 Things are not good.\u201d\u00a0 If a couple came to you and said, \u201cWe\u2019ve just decided not to make that really a part of our marriage.\u00a0 We\u2019re okay with that\u2014both of us\u2014okay with that.\u00a0 We\u2019re just fine with it being what it is.\u201d\u00a0 Would you say, \u201cOh, okay,\u201d or would you say, \u201cNo, there\u2019s something we need to deal with, here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s a good question.\u00a0 There are couples, who physically, can\u2019t be intimate.\u00a0 They have to work their intimacy around that\u2014and that\u2014pretty much, you decide for yourself on that.\u00a0 But a couple that comes in and says, \u201cWe\u2019re just not that interested.\u201d I usually encourage them to build some kind of physical intimacy back into their relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think God created it for a purpose, and I think it\u2019s a wonderful thing.\u00a0 I think it\u2019s different for a man and a woman.\u00a0 I think the mystery of two people loving each other that way\u2014and those different thoughts and desires coming together\u2014 is a beautiful thing.\u00a0 I think you lose something in a marriage relationship if that\u2019s not part of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m with you, Jim.\u00a0 I think the couple who have allowed the sexual dimension to become absent\u2014it\u2019s a real mistake.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think so.\u00a0 I agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It really is a mistake.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You also, in your book, tell people to be less religious and to go to church less often.\u00a0 I mean, that\u2019s what the chapter titles say.\u00a0 What are you pointing to there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Two different chapters.\u00a0 Well, to go to church less often\u2014I\u2019m a big believer and a participant in my church\u2014and I love my association with my church.\u00a0 The issue there is church being used as a vehicle to fix my spouse\u2014or to go and be a consumer\u2014and not a participant, and a giver, and a servant.\u00a0 I think it\u2019s critical that we look at church as being a place we can go and use our gifts and edify\u2014not go and see if we feel good about the sermon or if we feel good about the worship.\u00a0 Worship is important and the sermon is important, but what you do is more important.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe thing that I tell couples\u2014I hear this from men and women:\u00a0 \u201cWe went to church,\u201d this husband told me one time.\u00a0 \u201cIt was a perfect sermon for my wife.\u201d\u00a0 I go, \u201cOh, really\u2014perfect sermon for your wife?\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cYes, I asked her about it later.\u00a0 It didn\u2019t even have an effect.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 My question is, \u201cWell, was it a perfect sermon for you?\u201d\u00a0 He looked at me like, \u201cWell, yes.\u00a0 I guess.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cWell, did you tell her how God spoke to <em>you<\/em> during that message?\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cNo.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cYou might want to start there.\u201d\u00a0 When church is for you\u2014it\u2019s not to fix the people in your life\u2014your spouse, your kids\u2014it\u2019s a place where you get to go and you get to meet with God.\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s the gist of that chapter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I like how you answered it, there at the beginning, when you said, \u201cAt some point, our relationship with God has to spill over and impact people where we live\u2014in our apartment complex, our neighborhood, at work.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s a part of having a relationship with God\u2014that we have good works, and be generous, and impact people\u2019s lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, absolutely.\u00a0 That is us, being the Church, in the world.\u00a0 The church I attend begins every service by saying, \u201cThank You for bringing the Church into this room.\u201d\u00a0 When I first attended there, I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s a nice thing to say.\u00a0 I get it\u2014little \u201cc\u201d church, big \u201cC\u201d Church\u2014I get that.\u201d\u00a0 Sunday after Sunday, I went back\u2014same thing, same thing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just got a little bit irritated.\u00a0 \u201cCan\u2019t you think of a new line to introduce?\u201d\u00a0 Until finally\u2014I was about a year into it\u2014and I thought, \u201cOh, okay God, I get it.\u00a0 I get what You are trying to say to me.\u00a0 This is a constant reminder\u2014that when I come into this building, that I\u2019m just staying here for a short amount of time; but my real ministry is outside this building.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s a delightful reminder to have every week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s talk about Chapter 11 in your book because this has to do with expectations.\u00a0 The title of this chapter is, \u201cGive Up Finding Your Soul Mate\u201d.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You must find a little of this occurring in the counseling\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I find a lot of it.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know who came up with the whole concept of soul mate.\u00a0 I\u2019m not sure.\u00a0 Right now, I\u2019m reading\u2014I read it when I was in high school\u2014but I\u2019m rereading <em>Les Miserables<\/em>, Victor Hugo\u2019s great novel.\u00a0 It\u2019s a good read; but it\u2019s so full of this love\u2014this love between Marius and Cosette\u2014and all the feelings of that.\u00a0 But this whole idea of there\u2019s one person out there\u2014who\u2019s really going to be it and really does complete me\u2014is a myth that I think has been foisted on our culture.\u00a0 It really can hurt and indeed ruin marriage relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Think about the TV programs that have been birthed by this concept: <em>The Bachelor<\/em> and <em>The Bachelorette<\/em>.\u00a0\u00a0 I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever watched one from beginning to end\u2014but maybe in channel surfing, I\u2019ve whizzed by and stopped for a moment and go, \u201cWhat must that be like?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I laugh because they call it a \u201creality\u201d show.\u00a0 I mean, that\u2019s the least reality!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Find your soul mate there?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There is no reality in any of those shows whatsoever.\u00a0 But I think you\u2019re right\u2014whether it\u2019s TV\u2014how romance and marriage is presented in popular culture\u2014in the movies, in song, and then we have websites that are all built around, \u201cWe\u2019re going to help you scientifically find your soul mate.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, absolutely.\u00a0 \u201cYou take this test, and we\u2019ll line you up.\u00a0 There you go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But there is something about compatibility that we need to be paying attention to; isn\u2019t there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ah, I\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jim, you\u2019re shaking your head.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think compatibility is a myth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Overrated?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s very much overrated.\u00a0 Here\u2019s my bottom line in incompatibility.\u00a0 Of course, I am a believer in Jesus.\u00a0 I believe that two people need to be in love with Jesus.\u00a0 I think if a man and a woman are in love with Jesus, I don\u2019t care what their personality is.\u00a0 I think they can have a great marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMyers-Briggs Personality Inventory\u2014you just line it up.\u00a0 I can give you ups and downs.\u00a0 Do the Marriage Enrichment Test\u2014all those things you can have\u2014but relationships are work.\u00a0 The whole idea of being a soul mate is something that you grow into.\u00a0 It\u2019s not like you find them, and then you don\u2019t have to do any work.\u00a0 It\u2019s the lazy man\u2019s\u2014it\u2019s the lazy woman\u2019s\u2014gateway to the perfect relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think you\u2019ve hit on it, right there, because I think that people are looking for something that will require no effort.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When they\u2019re saying, \u201cI\u2019m looking for my soul mate,\u201d \u2014\u201cI\u2019m looking for somebody who completes me, without me having to do anything.\u201d\u00a0 Let me just tell you, \u201cThey ain\u2019t there; okay?\u201d\u00a0 Relationships take work, and the payoff\u2014like you said\u2014soul mate comes after you\u2019ve done the work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 It does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we marry one another because we\u2019re different.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You didn\u2019t marry a carbon copy of yourself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I hope not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You wouldn\u2019t.\u00a0 If you did that, then one of you is unnecessary, at that point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So we marry because they\u2019re different.\u00a0 The problem is\u2014before we get married, that\u2019s an attraction.\u00a0 After we get married and seal the deal, it\u2019s like two magnets that get turned around.\u00a0 They start repelling each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 The differences become aggravations.\u00a0 We tend to look at the other person, \u201cThey\u2019re not truly my soul mate.\u201d\u00a0 Then, you bring in the issue of the spiritual dimension\u2014where one person is really growing, and sees a great need for God and a relationship with Him in his or her life, and they\u2019re married to a spouse who may not be there, right now, in the journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So the issue of soul mate to that person\u2014is it wrong for the person who is really on fire for Jesus Christ to want to have a soul mate who shares the spiritual dimension of life together? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, but my response to that spouse\u2014be it a husband or a wife\u2014is, \u201cYou now are called by God to be Jesus Christ to your spouse.\u00a0 This isn\u2019t a, \u2018Okay, now where can I go find someone like-minded?\u2019\u00a0 This is \u2018Oh!\u00a0 Okay, I get it.\u00a0 This is where God has me, for whatever reason.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 We don\u2019t know the ways of God.\u00a0 We don\u2019t know His mind.\u00a0 But instead of saying, \u201cThis is really hard, and I wish this were easier,\u201d it\u2019s, \u201cNo, I need to love this person like I\u2019ve been loved by Christ.\u201d\u00a0 It is that kind of love\u2014turned toward that spouse\u2014that whether he or she is an unbeliever or whether they\u2019re just very young in their faith and not really growing\u2014that\u2019s the long-term mission for that spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jim, you and Renee, for a number of years, spoke at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaway.\u00a0 You undoubtedly saw some couples come to that conference, who were not soul mates when they came; but they were on the road, as they left.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just want you to speak to perhaps a listener as to why he or she ought to get their spouse and go to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, and get away to be refreshed, spiritually, and perhaps find their soul mate.\u00a0 You know what I mean?\u00a0 It\u2019s the antithesis of what you\u2019re talking about\u2014but really, be more on the journey together\u2014the spiritual journey together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, that\u2019s the point I would make.\u00a0 Any couple who wants to\u2014who\u2019s thinking, \u201cOkay, how can we work on our marriage more?\u201d\u00a0 That weekend is a weekend to get away so you can literally be on the same page.\u00a0 You are working together, communicating together in an environment that\u2019s going to encourage you to do that, you\u2019re getting the input that you need to do that.\u00a0 It also gives you a place where God can get you away, out of the daily grind of life, and speak to you in a unique and special way.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI did those conferences; I loved them.\u00a0 I did them for 18 years; and of course, I was a counselor for most of that time.\u00a0 Of course, you work away with people and you counsel people.\u00a0 I remember sending couples to the <em>Weekend to Remember,<\/em> encouraging them to do that.\u00a0 I remember this one couple I worked with for six months\u2014and couldn\u2019t even get to first base.\u00a0 That weekend was the catalyst for them to come together and for God to speak to them.\u00a0 It\u2019s amazing to me\u2014and it always was\u2014how God can use that brief time together to really change the course of a relationship.\u00a0 I wholeheartedly would encourage couples to consider it.\u00a0 And it is beneficial\u2014greatly beneficial.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 In Acts, Chapter 17, it is said of the disciples\u2014that they came to Thessalonica.\u00a0 The phrase used to describe them, \u201cThese men, who have turned the world upside down, have come here also.\u201d\u00a0 What Jim Keller wants to do, in this book, is turn your marriage\u2014your world\u2014upside down around the person of Jesus Christ by connecting you and your spouse to Him.\u00a0 You\u2019ll benefit from getting a copy of his book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim, I just appreciate you, your faithfulness to God and the Scriptures, and to your vocation as a counselor.\u00a0 I also appreciate your friendship.\u00a0 You\u2019re a good man, and I meant every word I said in the \u201cForward\u201d to that book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I appreciate that, and I feel the same way.\u00a0 It\u2019s a privilege to be with you both.\u00a0 You guys are great.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m sure nobody is surprised by the fact that we\u2019ve got copies of your book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center.\u00a0 Listeners can go online to request a copy.\u00a0 Go to FamilyLifeToday.com if you\u2019d like to get Jim\u2019s book, <em>The Upside Down Marriage<\/em>.\u00a0 Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Or call toll-free: 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number; 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me also just add here, I think it would be a good idea for listeners to make a New Year\u2019s resolution.\u00a0 I know we haven\u2019t even gotten to Christmas yet, but you\u2019ve probably already started thinking about your New Year\u2019s resolutions.\u00a0 One of them ought to be, \u201cWe\u2019re going to go to an event in 2013 to strengthen our marriage,\u201d\u2014a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, maybe an <em>Art of Marriage <\/em>event, maybe host an <em>Art of Marriage <\/em>event in your community.\u00a0 Make plans to do that.\u00a0 Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about what\u2019s available and how you can make plans to either host an event or attend an event.\u00a0 Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I hope by now, you\u2019ve got almost all of your Christmas shopping done.\u00a0 Some of you are going, \u201cNo, this is just when I get started doing my Christmas shopping.\u201d\u00a0 Well, whatever the rhythm is for you, I hope you\u2019re able to fully engage in the celebration of the birth of Christ with family, with friends, with extended family.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m guessing that nowhere on your gift-giving list did you include, \u201cI wonder what we should get our friends at FamilyLife for Christmas this year?\u201d\u00a0 We understand that; but we would like to ask you to consider, not a Christmas gift, but an end-of-the year gift to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 We are listener-supported.\u00a0 Those end-of-year contributions are crucial as we consider what we are going to be able to do in 2013.\u00a0 As you may have heard me say, in past weeks, this has been a challenging year for us as we\u2019ve seen a decline in donations from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners over the last several months.\u00a0 That\u2019s why we\u2019re hoping here, at the end of the year, our listening friends will be as generous as possible in making a contribution as we head into 2013.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe good news is\u2014your donation, whatever it is, is going to be doubled as we head into the New Year, thanks to a matching-gift fund that has been put together by some friends of this ministry.\u00a0 That fund is up to $3.6 million, at this point, so every donation you make that comes in under that number is going to be matched, dollar-for-dollar.\u00a0 If you want to take care of the whole thing, just go ahead and make a $3.6 million donation of your own\u2014give us a call!\u00a0 We\u2019d be happy to have that conversation with you.\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can make a donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 Let me just say, we\u2019re grateful for whatever you are able to do.\u00a0 If it\u2019s $2, that\u2019s great.\u00a0 If it\u2019s $200, that\u2019s great, too.\u00a0 If it\u2019s more than that, again, we\u2019d love to hear from you.\u00a0 Thanks for your partnership, here with this ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family can worship together this weekend in your local church; and I hope you can join us back on Monday when we have something special planned for you for Christmas Eve, with our friends Keith and Kristyn Getty.\u00a0 So I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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