{"id":302653,"date":"2012-12-20T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2012-12-20T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/drifting-into-conflict\/"},"modified":"2012-12-20T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2012-12-20T17:00:00","slug":"drifting-into-conflict","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/drifting-into-conflict\/","title":{"rendered":"Drifting Into Conflict"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Many couples find themselves surprised both by the arrival and the intensity of the storm.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-12-20.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"20.87M","filesize_raw":"21880471","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2082],"tags":[5200],"podcast_series":[7920],"cwp_profile":[3276],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302653","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-communication","tag-storms-of-life","podcast_series-the-upside-down-marriage","cwp_profile-jim-keller","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302653\/drifting-into-conflict","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302653\/drifting-into-conflict","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"oo2UQam8oI\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/drifting-into-conflict\/\">Drifting Into Conflict<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/drifting-into-conflict\/embed\/#?secret=oo2UQam8oI\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Drifting Into Conflict&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"oo2UQam8oI\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Many couples find themselves surprised both by the arrival and the intensity of the storm.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-12-20.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Has your spouse ever said to you, \u201cI don\u2019t feel like you\u2019re listening to me.\u00a0 I don\u2019t feel like you\u2019re really hearing what I\u2019m saying.\u201d\u00a0 Author and speaker, Jim Keller, says, \u201cYou may have heard the words, but may not have been listening the way you ought to be listening.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are two things that I\u2019d like to say when it comes to listening.\u00a0 You have to listen like you like them, and you have to listen with compassion.\u00a0 Listen like this is your friend, even if you are in conflict.\u00a0 This isn\u2019t an enemy.\u00a0 This isn\u2019t someone that you\u2019re trying to win an argument or fight a battle to win the battle.\u00a0 This is someone that you want to embrace.\u00a0 Compassion means that you are going to put yourself in their shoes and really understand how they feel and make a good faith effort to do that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re really trying to focus on, not just the words, but how it\u2019s being said and what are the underlying messages to them.\u00a0 You want to be in a place where there are few, if any, distractions.\u00a0 You\u2019ve got to give it the time that\u2019s appropriate.\u00a0 Five minutes is not enough time to really have a great meet.\u00a0 Now, you can communicate well in five minutes; but you only get five minutes\u2019 worth out of it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, December 20<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about communication, and listening, and improving your marriage.\u00a0 So, I hope you\u2019ll pay attention and really listen.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You are out of your mind!\u00a0 First of all\u2014just, I\u2019m telling you\u2014first of all\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s a great way to start the broadcast.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019m stunned!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re sitting here with a counselor, and you are announcing to him and to our listeners\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, he knew.\u00a0 He knew!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014our listening audience\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Here\u2019s why!\u00a0 Our guest writes a book; and you say, \u201cWe should have him on.\u201d\u00a0 I go, \u201cOkay, I trust you.\u201d\u00a0 I mean, after 20 years, I should trust you; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Then, you read the\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Then, I read the \u201cTable of Contents\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014the \u201cTable of Contents\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cFight More\u201d, \u201cHave Less Sex\u201d, \u201cGo to Church Less\u201d, \u201cAccept the Fact that You\u2019re Average\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014\u201cBe Worse Parents\u201d, \u201cEmbrace Poverty\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And then, \u201cForward by Dennis Rainey\u201d.\u00a0 I\u2019m going, \u201cWhat in the\u2014what were you thinking?!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was thinking it was a good book because I knew the guy who wrote it.\u00a0 He\u2019s a good man, Jim Keller.\u00a0 Jim, welcome to the broadcast.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, thank you very much.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s always a unique\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s a great intro.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is a great intro; isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, come on?\u00a0 We\u2019re supposed to read this \u201cTable of Contents\u201d and think, \u201cThis is going to help people in their marriage\u201d?!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, let me just tell our listeners who Jim is.\u00a0 Jim is the founder and the President of Charis Counseling Center is Orlando, Florida.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did I get that right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 You did.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And he and his wife, Renee, have been married for 35 years\u2014have two children and only four grandkids.\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s it, but that\u2019s enough for us.\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 They were all just together, and that\u2019s enough for us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I had to get that in.\u00a0 I had to get that in, Jim.\u00a0 Jim is a good friend.\u00a0 He and his wife, Renee, used to speak at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaways for a number of years.\u00a0 We do go way back.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was honored that he asked me to write the \u201cForward\u201d to this book.\u00a0 I went to the Board of Directors of FamilyLife and asked their permission to do it because I get a few requests like this\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 a\u2014and they said, \u201cYes,\u201d because of Jim\u2019s caliber and character.\u00a0 Now, Jim would you like to explain a book\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014[With a drawl]\u00a0 You\u2019ve got a lot of explainin\u2019 to do here!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, the first thing that I want to explain is\u2014the reason\u2014the impetus for this book was you, Dennis.\u00a0 During a conversation we had, during a brunch two years ago, you asked, \u201cOkay, when are you going to write your book?\u201d\u00a0 I had been resisting this for most of my life; but my wife happened to be there.\u00a0 She said, \u201cWell, you wrote down those chapter titles.\u201d\u00a0 I sent you an outline of those titles; and you said, \u201cLet\u2019s give it a whirl.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, obviously, when you\u2019re talking about the upside down marriage, you\u2019re saying there are some things that we need to re-examine that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014have kind of become commonplace.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 There are natural responses to relationships.\u00a0 There are things that we think, \u201cOkay, this is what I need to do here.\u00a0 This is what I need to do here.\u201d\u00a0 Many times, we fall into patterns that really aren\u2019t helpful at all; and many times, they\u2019re destructive\u2014like the chapter title, \u201cFight More\u201d.\u00a0 Many people think that having conflict in a relationship is not a good thing, but conflict is inevitable in relationships.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCouples who avoid conflict tend to have greater conflicts, down the road.\u00a0 If you could begin to develop a pattern of\u2014when you have an issue\u2014to learn how to resolve conflict and enter into conflict with a plan, you can do a better job of resolving it.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s illustrate with Chapter 1: \u201cDon\u2019t Talk So Much\u201d.\u00a0 You tell the story of a couple who\u2019d been married\u2014what?\u00a0 Thirty years?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 They have been in agony.\u00a0 They came in together.\u00a0 The wife talked about how her husband had been insensitive for years and how they just had a difficult time of it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, we need to say at this point, \u201cYou\u2019re a counselor.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m a counselor.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s why they\u2019ve come in to see you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 They\u2019ve come in to see me, and this is when I was just starting out.\u00a0 I\u2019m a brand- new counselor.\u00a0 This is\u2014I think this is probably one of the first couples I\u2019ve ever counseled.\u00a0 I\u2019m just so excited to be in the process.\u00a0 I\u2019m watching the wife.\u00a0 She talked for 30 minutes straight because I\u2014you know, you time your sessions.\u00a0 You want to make sure you\u2019re\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014being fair with them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 After 30 minutes of this long, long diatribe, this man, all of a sudden, speaks.\u00a0 He goes, \u201cI don\u2019t know what her problem is!\u201d\u2014just out of the blue.\u00a0 Now, she\u2019s been, 30 minutes, specifying\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014explaining what her problem is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014in detail, what his problem is; [Laughter] but he hasn\u2019t heard a thing, of course.\u00a0 Then, he basically says, \u201cYou know, I work real hard.\u00a0 I\u2019ve been faithful to her, and I don\u2019t physically abuse her.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s all he said.\u00a0 Then, she just kept on, right from there, and began talking the rest of the session.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, you write a chapter and use them as a lead illustration\u2014saying, \u201cDon\u2019t Talk So Much\u201d.\u00a0 What were you really trying to say?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m saying that you\u2019ve got to be in a place where you listen to what your spouse is saying.\u00a0 Both of those people\u2014they\u2019re in a 30-plus-year marriage, where they just don\u2019t listen to each other.\u00a0 Listening is the key to communication.\u00a0 It\u2019s not the words you use that are important or what you say\u2014as much as how you\u2019re able to listen.\u00a0 The listener who listens well is a person who communicates well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, I see the surveys that come out from time to time, \u201cWhat are the issues couples are dealing with in marriage?\u201d\u00a0 Communication is always on the list.\u00a0 I think it is money, sex, kids, and communication.\u00a0 You\u2019re talking to couples every day.\u00a0 Is that list fairly accurate?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is, but it goes\u2014it\u2019s so layered.\u00a0 It\u2019s very deep, in terms of where you go down.\u00a0 Yes, communication is the key essence to every marriage.\u00a0 It just is.\u00a0 <br><br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Why do you say that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because if you don\u2019t have an understanding of your spouse, you really don\u2019t have a relationship with your spouse\u2014you have a living arrangement with your spouse.\u00a0 So, I think it\u2019s important to say, \u201cOkay, how\u2014\u201d not just, \u201cDo we talk?\u201d \u2014but, \u201cDo we really communicate?\u00a0 Do we really understand each other, and are we able to be intimate?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And a counselor is never above making a mistake himself.\u00a0 That\u2019s one of the things that I appreciated as I read the manuscript of your book.\u00a0 Right off the bat, you told a story of Renee, [Laughter] your wife\u2014and this is after you\u2019ve been married\u2014what three decades?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 She comes in and she says, \u201cWe haven\u2019t talked recently.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 And those are dangerous words, coming from my wife.\u00a0 Those are words that always get my attention.\u00a0 I always tend to be defensive.\u00a0 I was in a place\u2014at the time, I was going through some classes; and I had a lot of things I needed to do.\u00a0 I had a very small window of opportunity.\u00a0 She comes in and she says, \u201cWe haven\u2019t talked lately.\u201d\u00a0 My response was just so poor.\u00a0 I said, \u201cWell, we talked this morning.\u201d\u00a0 Well, we didn\u2019t talk at all.\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 We said, \u201cHi.\u00a0 How are you?\u00a0 What are you doing today?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Typical man.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 What she was saying to me is, \u201cLook, we have not connected.\u00a0 We are not listening to each other.\u00a0 We haven\u2019t taken the time to really hear from each other.\u201d\u00a0 So, the rest of the day, that\u2019s what I did.\u00a0 You know, my work got done; but it was important for me to listen to my wife.\u00a0 I had to listen to what she had to say.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Mary Ann\u2014the other day\u2014we had sat down and had a prolonged conversation\u2014kind of worked out some details\u2014get some planning done.\u00a0 She had the calendar out, and we were making some plans.\u00a0 Then, something happened; and we had to\u2014we had to stop.\u00a0 I remember, as I was getting up to go do something else, she said, \u201cWe still have a lot to talk about.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you thought you were done.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I said to her, \u201cOf course, we do.\u00a0 Of course, we do.\u201d\u00a0 <br><br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 There you go!\u00a0 That\u2019s a wise statement.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But I\u2014it was just really interesting because, yes, as a guy, you can kind of feel like, \u201cOkay, we called the play.\u00a0 We\u2019re ready to break and go to\u2014the huddles\u2019 over and let\u2019s get in the game.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And our wives are saying, \u201cNo, no, no, no, no.\u201d\u00a0 Here\u2019s the thing I\u2019ve found\u2014if I have processed something in my mind, I figure Mary Ann has, too.\u00a0 \u201cWhy do we need to talk that much about it?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Of course.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 She needs the interaction in order for there to be real oneness in our marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I agree.\u00a0 My son was just visiting from Seattle.\u00a0 I had a conversation with him, one-on-one.\u00a0 My wife comes to me and says, \u201cWell, what did you and Chris talk about?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cOh, you know, just essential stuff.\u201d\u00a0 I sort of, \u201cHow\u2019s he doing\u2014\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell, how is he doing?\u00a0 What did he say?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m just like, \u201cOh, man!\u201d \u2014you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019ve got to do this all over again?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019ve got to do this all over.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were giving her the news report.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jim:<\/strong> I was.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 The two-minute news report, and she wanted the <em>Gone with the Wind<\/em> version.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \u201cCan I text you?\u00a0 Can I just send it to you in little dribbles and drabbles?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s\u2014you\u2019re right.\u00a0 That\u2019s exactly what\u2019s important.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The reason that is so important is because that\u2019s\u2014relationships are built that way.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 They are.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Without communication, what do you have?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 You don\u2019t have anything\u2014not a relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, if you think about it, listening to another person is, or can be, the greatest show of respect.\u00a0 If you are truly listening, not only to what is said\u2014what\u2019s not said, how it\u2019s said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and the context from which it\u2019s being said.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 If you\u2019re really listening, that is the ultimate way to show respect for another person, especially your spouse.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Give us some tips on listening\u2014how we can do a better job on it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, first of all, the point is excellent.\u00a0 I call it, \u201cIf you\u2019re really listening, you\u2019re listening between the lines.\u201d\u00a0 You\u2019re really trying to focus on what\u2019s\u2014not just the words\u2014but how it\u2019s being said.\u00a0 What are the underlying messages to that?\u00a0 People pay me money to listen to them.\u00a0 My job, primarily, is not so much to solve problems; but it\u2019s first and foremost to listen.\u00a0 I am as good as my ability to listen, as a counselor.\u00a0 Well, you are as good as your ability to listen, as a spouse.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, some of the things that I like to say and encourage couples to do: Environment is important\u2014where you have your talks, your communication.\u00a0 You want to be in a place where there are few, if any, distractions.\u00a0 You want to be in a place where it\u2019s conducive to be able to talk.\u00a0 You\u2019ve got to give it the time that\u2019s appropriate.\u00a0 The most frustrating thing to one or both spouses is if there is not enough time to communicate what they really want to communicate.\u00a0\u00a0 Five minutes is not enough time to really have a great meet.\u00a0 Now, you can communicate well in five minutes; but you only get five minutes\u2019 worth out of it.\u00a0 So, it does take time.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, and to that point, for young families, who\u2019ve got a bunch of kids around their ankles and legs\u2014kind of nipping at their heels\u2014it\u2019s tough to have\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014a conversation.\u00a0 You\u2019ve got to reschedule.\u00a0 Sometimes, a disagreement has to be rescheduled after the kids are in bed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it\u2019s not going to turn out well\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014if you don\u2019t.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I agree.\u00a0 Focus is important.\u00a0 It is amazing to me how, when couples come into my office, they don\u2019t look at each other when they talk.\u00a0 I, at least, several times a week, honestly, as I do couples\u2019 therapy, I will say, \u201cWould you look her in the eye when you say that?\u00a0 Would you look at each other?\u201d\u00a0 Because they will be looking down, they\u2019ll be looking at me, they\u2019ll be looking at the wall; but the eyes are the window to the soul.\u00a0 So, it takes focus to do that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I also encourage them to watch their body language when they talk\u2014their defensive postures.\u00a0 In Psych 101\u2014any kind of communication course\u2014your arms are crossed\u2014you\u2019re giving non-verbals.\u00a0 I remember I had a couple\u2014he would just purse his lips and just shake his head every time she talked.\u00a0 She would roll her eyes every time he talked.\u00a0 I mean, this is just what they did as I had them share back-and-forth.\u00a0 So, I just basically got to a point where, every time he talked, I\u2019d purse my lips and shook my head.\u00a0 Every time she talked, I rolled my eyes.\u00a0\u00a0 Finally, they are looking at me like, \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong with what I\u2019m saying?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cAll I\u2019m doing is\u2014I\u2019m doing to you what you\u2019re doing to your spouse.\u00a0 Do you see how it feels?\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 See\u2014when you finally have someone, from the outside, pointing it out and saying, \u201cHey, watch your body language.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s important to have body language\u2014it\u2019s conducive to listening and communication.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That kind of body language shows contempt for another person.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s the opposite of respect.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 That\u2019s an excellent point because there are two final things that I\u2019d like to say when it comes to listening.\u00a0 You have to listen like you like them, and you have to listen with compassion.\u00a0 Listen like this is your friend, even if you are in conflict.\u00a0 This is your friend.\u00a0 This isn\u2019t an enemy.\u00a0 This isn\u2019t someone that you\u2019re trying to win an argument or fight a battle to win the battle.\u00a0 This is someone you want to embrace.\u00a0 Compassion means that you are going to put yourself in their shoes and really understand how they feel and make a good faith effort to do that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the things Mary Ann and I have talked about in our communication\u2014and, really, in communication in general\u2014is the need to give another person\u2014and the phrase I learned years ago was\u2014\u201cthe judgment of charity\u201d.\u00a0 It is really the benefit of the doubt\u2014it is, really, believing the best about another person.\u00a0 That is, if somebody says something to you and there are a number of ways it could be understood, your responsibility is to understand it and to interpret it in the best possible light\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014rather than immediately going to the worst possible light\u2014and give that person that \u201cjudgment of charity\u201d.\u00a0 If we do that, we may want to probe a little deeper: \u201cIs this what you were trying to say?\u00a0 Did you mean it this way?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s fair to do.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t mean to be Pollyanna and be na\u00efve; but, boy, it\u2019s a whole different mindset when you are starting off with, \u201cI\u2019m going to believe the best about you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 I think that\u2019s vital, long-term\u2014and any kind of growing relationship\u2014that you really believe that the other person has your best interest in mind\u2014and that you really can come alongside them and say, \u201cI want to be assuming that that\u2019s the case.\u00a0 I want to be helpful to encourage that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Again, being the trained counselor that you are, when your wife was stricken with some neck pain, you showed compassion in exemplary fashion to Renee; right?\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 My response to any kind of physical pain is: \u201cRub some dirt on it.\u00a0 Get over it.\u00a0 Let\u2019s go.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cSuck it up;\u201d huh?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s what\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Even to your wife?!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s what I\u2014well\u2014I\u2019m a little bit more diplomatic than that; but in essence, I\u2019m saying, \u201cYes, Dear, that\u2019s tough.\u00a0 That\u2019s tough.\u00a0 That\u2019s tough.\u201d\u00a0 It is interesting\u2014this neck pain situation\u2014this was a couple years ago.\u00a0 \u201cOh, my neck hurts!\u201d\u00a0 \u201cYes, yes, yes;\u201d and I\u2019m trying to be nice.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cYes, yes, yes;\u201d that\u2019s good!\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Internally, I\u2019m doing that.\u00a0 I have some decorum.\u00a0 One day, she just told me about it; and I really was dismissive.\u00a0 I got in my car, turned my head to back out of my garage, and just twisted and tweaked my neck.\u00a0 I got to a place, outside, where I just turned back.\u00a0 All of a sudden\u2014this excruciating neck pain.\u00a0 It lasted for a couple of days.\u00a0 I remember coming home that night, and walking up to her, and saying to her, \u201cI\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 I had <em>zero<\/em> compassion on you, and I\u2019ve been stricken by God because of it.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Opportunity for empathy\u2014that God gave you, right there.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, isn\u2019t it interesting\u2014once you experience the pain of other people, all of a sudden, you\u2019re going, \u201cOkay, I get it\u201d?\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Well, to further illustrate how much out of my mind I was when I did the \u201cForward\u201d for your book, the first chapter was, \u201cDon\u2019t Talk So Much\u201d.\u00a0 The next chapter is, \u201cStop Spending So Much Time Together\u201d.\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 What did you have in mind on that one?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, couples, when they first meet\u2014they just love spending time together.\u00a0 When you first meet your future spouse, it\u2019s just\u2014you just can\u2019t spend enough time together.\u00a0 Of course, when you get married, you\u2019re stuck spending time together.\u00a0 I mean, you\u2019re sleeping together, you\u2019re doing life together.\u00a0 There are a lot of times when you are together with someone\u2014and you can lose perspective if you are with them all the time.\u00a0 I think there are times when you need to separate\u2014not a separation\u2014but separate so you can gain perspective on who your spouse is, who you are, and how you\u2019re doing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Give me an illustration of that.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, an illustration of that would be\u2014me, getting away for a weekend.\u00a0 Sometimes, I take weekends away, just individually, by myself.\u00a0 I\u2019ll just use it to plan, personally.\u00a0 I\u2019ll tell Renee about it.\u00a0 We\u2019ll plan it.\u00a0 We\u2019ll put it in the schedule.\u00a0 She\u2019ll have some things she does; but I want to get away to let her experience some time without me around and, also, me\u2014just to sort of evaluate where I am.\u00a0 I try to do an assessment of how I\u2019m doing and how our marriage is doing.\u00a0 It also gives me a chance to miss her a little bit, too.\u00a0 It gives me a chance to say, \u201cOkay, this is what life is like alone.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember when I did the first three chapters of this book\u2014I went away for a week in North Carolina\u2014just on my own.\u00a0 I was going to be company to nobody.\u00a0 All I was going to do was write\u2014and that\u2019s what I did\u2014but I remember, at the end of that time, just having such a clear perspective on how valuable my wife is to my life and how much I wanted to get back to her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are times when you do need to be apart so you can appreciate what it means to be together.\u00a0 That\u2019s another story.\u00a0 There are some times when marriages get troubled, too.\u00a0 If a marriage has a lot of conflict, where being separate sometimes can help clarify what the issues are.\u00a0 Those times can also be very instructive, as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, when our kids were younger, I remember thinking that to get time for myself felt like I was being selfish\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014or to go do something with a group of guys was\u2014\u201cNo, I should be with my wife and with my kids because that should be my first priority.\u201d\u00a0 Then, I remember Mary Ann going out one evening with a group of girlfriends; and she was out late.\u00a0 I mean, Mary Ann likes to go to bed early.\u00a0 It was 10:30 or 11:00, and she still wasn\u2019t home.\u00a0 She was out with the girls having\u2014I guess, having fun because I didn\u2019t know where she was.\u00a0 I kept thinking, \u201cIs she okay?\u201d\u2014started thinking of her like my teenage daughter; right?\u00a0 She got home, and I could tell she\u2019d been refreshed by that evening.\u00a0 Our relationship was better because of the refreshment that she\u2019d had with others.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We can get into a cycle where we feel like our responsibility is to fill every need the other person has.\u00a0 No human being is capable of doing that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 That\u2019s an excellent point.\u00a0 I think being separate\u2014being away\u2014there are some couples that I counsel\u2014that one or both of them don\u2019t feel that they should do anything that they are not together.\u00a0 I say, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a good and healthy thing.\u00a0 I think our friendships and relationships\u2014that you need to benefit from as an individual\u2014so you can enrich the relationship, down the road.\u201d\u00a0 <br><br>Like I said\u2014remedially\u2014if there is chronic difficulty in the marriage\u2014a lot of times, some time apart for assessment and to work on personal issues is important, as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 The Proverbs say, \u201cIn the abundance of counselors, there is victory.\u201d\u00a0 In this case, in the abundance of one counselor [Laughter], Jim Keller, there is victory because\u2014how many years have you been in practice, Jim?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Twenty years, now.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, a lot of experience in talking to people, hearing their issues\u2014and was a part of why I encouraged you.\u00a0 I said, \u201cWhen are you going to put something in print?\u201d because I\u2019d heard you talk about some of the lessons you were learning, some of the observations you were making.\u00a0 Basically, I think what you\u2019ve done is kind of put your heart between two covers\u2014your love for people\u2014also, your love for Jesus Christ\u2014wanting them to have a good relationship with Him and one another.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is just great counsel, great advice; and it\u2019s a whole lot cheaper\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s what I\u2019m thinking.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014than going to see him!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 People call and say, \u201cI\u2019d like\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m sorry, Jim!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 \u2014\u201cto set up an appointment.\u201d\u00a0 You just\u2014buy a copy of the book, and they don\u2019t have to come see you anymore after that; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I know you\u2019ve got a waiting list anyway.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 If only they were that easy.\u00a0 I would\u2014you know, it\u2019s funny, as I was writing the book, I had four people in mind\u2014my grandchildren.\u00a0 It\u2019s everything I know about marriage is in this book.\u00a0 Now, it\u2019s certainly not the whole story, and I\u2019m limited in my knowledge; but that\u2019s what I wanted to do with it.\u00a0 I wanted them to at least have some kind of written copy of\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it\u2019s a great book, and I\u2019d encourage our listeners to get a copy of it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Of course, we have copies in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 Listeners can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy.\u00a0 Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 The title of the book is <em>The Upside Down Marriage<\/em>.\u00a0 The phone number, again, is 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, quickly, I wanted to remind you that we\u2019re getting close to the end of 2012\u2014about to turn the calendar to a whole new year, 2013.\u00a0 Of course, we\u2019ve got Christmas between now and then; and then, we head into the New Year.\u00a0 Here, at FamilyLife, this time of year is always significant\u2014first and foremost because of what it represents\u2014because of the celebration of the birth of Christ and how families engage around that celebration\u2014but it\u2019s also significant, as we head to a new year, because for ministries like ours\u2014the end of the year is a critical time period.\u00a0 The donations that come in between now and the end of December will really determine for us what we are able to do in 2013.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why we\u2019re asking all of our friends to consider making as generous a yearend contribution to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> as you can possibly make.\u00a0 The good news is that donation is going to be matched.\u00a0 We\u2019ve had some friends who have come forward and put together a matching-gift fund that is currently at $3.6 million.\u00a0 It\u2019s possible that matching-gift fund will grow in the next week, as well.\u00a0 So, would you consider making a donation, here at yearend, to support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>?\u00a0 Whatever you\u2019re able to do will be significant; and it will be matched, dollar-for-dollar, up to that total of $3.6 million.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can donate by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Make your donation over the phone.\u00a0 We appreciate whatever you are able to do.\u00a0 We look forward to hearing from you, and we hope this is a great season for you and your family.\u00a0 Hope you\u2019re celebration of Christmas next week is a meaningful time; and we hope that 2013 is going to be a great year for your family, as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can be back with us again tomorrow.\u00a0 Jim Keller is going to be here again.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to continue to look at what happens when you turn a marriage upside down.\u00a0 And I hope you can tune in for that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302653","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302653"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302653"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302653"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302653"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302653"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302653"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302653"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}