{"id":302634,"date":"2012-11-19T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2012-11-19T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/taking-up-our-cross\/"},"modified":"2025-01-09T14:39:09","modified_gmt":"2025-01-09T19:39:09","slug":"taking-up-our-cross","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/taking-up-our-cross\/","title":{"rendered":"Taking Up Our Cross"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Have you taken up your cross lately?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Have you taken up your cross lately?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-11-19.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"21.35M","filesize_raw":"22385717","date_recorded":"2012-11-19 12:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[5231],"podcast_series":[7912],"cwp_profile":[3373],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302634","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-die-to-self","podcast_series-die-young","cwp_profile-michael-and-hayley-dimarco","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302634\/taking-up-our-cross","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302634\/taking-up-our-cross","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"lao0ITYCXc\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/taking-up-our-cross\/\">Taking Up Our Cross<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/taking-up-our-cross\/embed\/#?secret=lao0ITYCXc\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Taking Up Our Cross&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"lao0ITYCXc\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var 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husbands and wives is to kindly, gently, graciously point out the sin we see in each others\u2019 lives.\u00a0 There was a time when Michael DiMarco held up a mirror to his wife, Hayley, so that she could see just how selfishly she was acting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 There was a point, and I can see myself sitting on the couch crying and saying, \u201cWhy did he do that?\u00a0 Why would he say that?\u201d and it just came over me that that was my flesh.\u00a0 Up until that point it was thriving, and when he came into my life and was, I think, loving and kind enough to say \u201cI\u2019m not going to let that thrive in you just so you can be happy,\u201d because that\u2019s really what happens a lot of times.<\/p>\n<p>A husband might just say, \u201cI just want to keep the peace.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to make her unhappy.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m thankful that I was given a man who felt that my holiness was more important than my happiness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, November 19<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0\u00a0 What does it mean for us to die to self in marriage, and how can we help one another do it?\u00a0 We\u2019re going to explore that today.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0\u00a0 You know, given the number of times we have talked to our friends who are joining us here today, Michael and Hayley DiMarco, I just never realized that they have this opposition to the Declaration of Independence.\u00a0 Did you realize this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not really tracking with you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 They have a problem with the pursuit of happiness, and the Declaration says, \u201cLife, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.\u201d\u00a0 Apparently \u2013 well, you\u2019ll have to ask them about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, I will.\u00a0 Michael, Hayley, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Are you wanting to move to Australia?\u00a0 Is that what you\u2019d like, to be deported?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just set you up hard there, didn\u2019t I?<\/p>\n<p>(Laughter)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I used to live 15 minutes from Canada, so everybody now is going to say, \u201cWhy didn\u2019t you drive the extra 15?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Aye?<\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.\u00a0 Well, it\u2019s our contention that the Bible calls us to death, servanthood, and the pursuit of holiness.\u00a0 It\u2019s the pursuit of happiness that really makes our world revolve around worshipping ourselves.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And our appetites.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, mine are well-documented.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You two give leadership to a ministry called <em>Hungry Planet.<\/em>\u00a0 You produce resources for really, primarily \u2013 it has been, at least \u2013 teenagers, a lot of best-selling books.\u00a0 This book that you\u2019ve just written, <em>Die Young<\/em>, is certainly for teens.\u00a0 But I have to tell you, it doesn\u2019t matter what your age is.\u00a0 You\u2019re calling people of all ages \u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And by the way, this is a book that I would not encourage parents to just hand over to your child and say, \u201cHey, I thought of a good book for you.\u00a0 <em>Die Young.\u201d<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>It takes some explanation.<\/p>\n<p>(Laughter)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 And actually, we had the choice of publishing this book as a youth book or an adult book, but we said this is a dangerous book -- as Bob kind of alluded to -- it\u2019s a dangerous book to put in the hand of a teenager, not necessarily because of the title, but because of the subject matter.\u00a0 Because this is a message that teens and youth will throw themselves at, like, \u201cYes, I knew my life was bigger than just about me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 But then when they look up from the book and they look at the adults in their life, their parents, the church, and they see good Christian people living for themselves, it creates a dissonance.\u00a0 And that\u2019s where you see, we think, a lot of Bible-believing, church-going teenagers leaving the church after college.\u00a0 It\u2019s not as much about the indoctrination of academia, but it\u2019s more about \u201cThis world is more real than the kind of fake world I was living in before, because people were living for themselves there.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hayley, unpack what you mean around this concept of dying young.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re never too old to die young.\u00a0 You\u2019re never too old to look at your life and say, \u201cI have lived a life out of selfishness rather than faithfulness,\u201d and to say, \u201cToday is the day that I die.\u201d\u00a0 In other words, \u201cToday is the day that everything in me that is inconsistent with Christ in me is going to be dead to me, and I\u2019m not going to respond to it anymore.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s really at the root of this concept of dying to self.<\/p>\n<p>It is that we just say \u201cNo.\u201d\u00a0 We\u2019re just sick of trying to please ourselves.\u00a0 Because really do we ever?\u00a0 Does there ever come a time when we say, \u201cOh, I finally arrived.\u201d\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t happen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A number of years ago, and I don\u2019t remember who wrote this book, but there was a book that came out called <em>The Upside Down Kingdom<\/em>, and it was just how Jesus spoke in paradoxes, really calling people to things that were counter-intuitive.\u00a0 As I read through the chapter titles in your book, this is the modern-day <em>Upside Down Kingdom<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>The chapter titles of the book are:\u00a0 \u201cDeath is the New Life.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cDown is the New Up.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cLess is the New More.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWeak is the New Strong.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cSlavery is the New Freedom.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cConfession\u201d \u2013 I really like this chapter \u2013 \u201cConfession is the New Innocence.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cRed is the New White.\u201d\u00a0 Jesus really did turn things upside-down, didn\u2019t He?\u00a0 He called us to live a life of paradox, to die so we\u2019d live.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 And the whole paradox to kind of a modern, commercialized message of Christianity is that Jesus came to make your life easy and to make your life happy, and to give you everything you wanted.\u00a0 But Jesus is a trouble-maker.\u00a0 He causes all sorts of trouble within my flesh.\u00a0 It\u2019s not a life of prosperity.\u00a0 The best example of this I can think of is the story of John the Baptist, when he said to his followers, \u201cHe must increase and I must decrease.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But the world screams, social media screams, \u201cThe world needs more of me.\u00a0 It needs to know when I check in at this coffee shop, and it needs me to pin 18 different boards on Pinterest of what my style is, and what inspires me.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s mainly a woman thing, but\u00a0 \u2013 Dennis is looking at me like \u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, I \u2013 Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 But the world screams \u201cWe need more of you,\u201d but it\u2019s a lie.\u00a0 What the world needs more of is Christ, and less of me.\u00a0 The other verse that comes to mind is when Christ says we\u2019re to pick up our cross daily and follow Him.\u00a0 Picking up the cross is not a triumphant, I-am-the-best-thing-since-sliced-bread move.\u00a0 It\u2019s a death march, and we\u2019re to do that daily.\u00a0 It\u2019s not come forward once when we\u2019re 16 or 13.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But there does seem to be a realization that happens at some point in our lives, even in our spiritual lives, where we trust Christ, we\u2019re following Christ, but I don\u2019t know that we always get right away the idea that death to self is what we\u2019ve signed on for.\u00a0 And when we get it, then we realize it\u2019s something that we\u2019ve got to reapply hourly, right?\u00a0 It\u2019s not an \u201cOh, I\u2019m there\u201d and you make the switch.<\/p>\n<p>Was there a landmark time for either of you where the realization that death to self is what being a follower of Christ was all about, or did it happen gradually for you over time?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, the Spirit was probably working on me for quite some time, but there was a moment when I finally went, \u201cOh.\u00a0 I get this.\u00a0 Thank you for not giving up on me.\u201d\u00a0 For me, it was at the point when we were married, and I was struggling with that \u2013 with just the concept of living with another human being who was like a mirror to me, and is very adept at pointing out my sin in my life.\u00a0 I did not like that.\u00a0 I did not want to see that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Was he doing it kindly and graciously?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 No!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, just checking.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well there were times \u2013<\/p>\n<p>(Laughter)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So he wasn\u2019t making it easy to hear.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 Not according to me.\u00a0 It didn\u2019t feel like it.\u00a0 When is it ever easy to hear?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m a bitter little pill.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, there were moments when I was slamming doors and throwing plates and those kinds of things.\u00a0 My initial reaction was \u201cWho talks to someone like this?\u201d\u00a0 And as I started to turn away from my flesh that wanted to say that and scream out and started to look at God\u2019s Word, I started to see He\u2019s in everything in my life.\u00a0 He\u2019s in every aspect.\u00a0 He\u2019s in this marriage.\u00a0 This marriage is about Him and not about me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And He can even be speaking through that imperfect spouse.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 And that\u2019s when the light went off and I thought, \u201cWait a minute.\u00a0 This is not a voice of condemnation.\u00a0 This is a voice of salvation.\u201d\u00a0 It was a voice of hope for me.\u00a0 I turned at that point and said, \u201cI\u2019m going to die to whatever this is in me that says that my sin can\u2019t be pointed out, that says that I should cling to my being happy and that he should serve me, and this life should be romantic and he should rub my feet and he should cook the dinners and do the dishes and I should rest.<\/p>\n<p>That kind of lifestyle was what I imagined marriage would be, and when I saw it wasn\u2019t, I am so thankful that I discovered that these were opportunities \u2013 this death that we\u2019re so afraid of was really an opportunity for life.\u00a0 I think that\u2019s the most important thing for us to grasp, that this is the opposite of what we think it is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And so did you make a decision as an act of your will at that point to say \u201cI\u2019ve got to die?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think I make that decision every day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well of course you do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 But Bob asked the question, \u201cWas there a point in time . . .?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, there was a point, and I can see myself sitting on the couch crying, and saying, \u201cWhy did he do that?\u00a0 Why would he say that?\u201d\u00a0 It just came over me that that was my flesh.\u00a0 Up until that point, it was thriving.\u00a0 When he came into my life and was, I think, loving and kind enough to say \u201cI\u2019m not going to let that thrive in you, just so you can be happy.\u201d\u00a0 Because that\u2019s really what happens a lot of time, is a husband might just say, \u201cI just want to keep the peace.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to make her unhappy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m thankful that I was given a man who felt that my holiness was more important than my happiness.\u00a0 So yes, there was that point when I said, \u201cI\u2019m in on this.\u00a0 I want to kill that within me that is inconsistent with Christ in me, and that is the flesh that screams out I should be happy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m not surprised that marriage is the place where this issue of having to die to self emerged, because honestly \u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You think?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 -- husband and wife coming together, two sinful people taking up residence \u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 -- two trying to become one.\u00a0 A lot of flesh is going to surface, and if we don\u2019t die to self, marriage is going to be miserable.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 Or gone.\u00a0 It\u2019s done.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 My experience was strangely related to hers, because mine was when I saw that change in Hayley where I knew I wasn\u2019t a perfect husband, I knew I wasn\u2019t saying things kindly, lovingly when I was talking about her or talking about us.\u00a0 But when I saw her change, when I saw her accept what I said and discard the way I said it, that was powerful for me.<\/p>\n<p>And then my sin was stripped and laid bare because her holy response to my unholy message of holiness \u2013<\/p>\n<p>(Laughter)<\/p>\n<p>-was so exposing to me that I was like, \u201cOkay, so I\u2019m a jerk the way I\u2019m saying this,\u201d and it really became about \u201cI\u2019m saying these things because it feels good to say it this way, and I can\u2019t say these things this way anymore.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think you\u2019ve hit on something here, because at some level her pitiful response \u2013 I hope I\u2019m not picking on you here \u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, not at all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But her pitiful response \u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 To his pitiful \u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 To your pitiful confrontation kind of justified in your mind that your pitiful confrontation was acceptable.\u00a0 And when she quit responding that way, the reality of how pitiful your confrontation was \u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 It took away all the noise, and all I could hear was my pitifulness.\u00a0 That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>(Laughter)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I want to say for women too, at the point that you can do that, that you can look up instead of looking across the table at the person who\u2019s bugging you, we say it in the book \u2013 you become emotionally bulletproof.\u00a0 The things that he\u2019s saying or that he\u2019s doing, they just fell off of me.\u00a0 Before they used to just stick and grab a hold like claws. But that point when I first started to make that change, they started to just be the hand of God.\u00a0 I felt them almost as a more gentle touch than they actually were.\u00a0 And so there was freedom.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s one thing when it\u2019s two people who are both committed to Christ, and walking along the path.\u00a0 But I\u2019m thinking about those listeners who are going, \u201cIf I die to self in the midst of this, and he\u2019s just going to keep \u2013 or she\u2019s going to do \u2013\u201c What do you say there?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 I say what God\u2019s Word says.\u00a0 I talk to a lot of women who are in marriages with \u2013 I\u2019ll go all the way to the unbelieving husband, where he doesn\u2019t even hear from the Holy Spirit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 The Scriptures tell us in First Corinthians that the unbelieving wife, if she will live in holy relationship with her husband, he can be saved through that, and that she shouldn\u2019t be reacting out of the flesh.\u00a0 Because what kind of example \u2013 as you see in Michael -- I guess I didn\u2019t even before today think of that \u2013 that my response was an example to him.\u00a0 But what kind of example do we give to our unbelieving husbands or our sinful husbands when our response is sinful?<\/p>\n<p>That doesn\u2019t help anyone.\u00a0 Our sin never helps anyone.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 And that\u2019s the whole second chapter.\u00a0 \u201cDown is the New Up\u201d is about humility, about how Christ, the Son of God Himself, humbled Himself and became a man.\u00a0 In marriage especially, parenthood as well, when we\u2019re a picture of Christ\u2019s humility, that\u2019s when God is exalted.\u00a0 That\u2019s when we no longer have to strive for getting our name out there, fighting for our rights, standing up for ourselves.\u00a0 There\u2019s huge freedom in that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I don\u2019t know you all that well, but I\u2019m guessing you and I might share a common challenge in that area of humility, that that might be a besetting issue for both of us?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What might that be, Bob?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The issue of pride and wanting attention drawn to us.\u00a0 And I\u2019m not trying to put -- Maybe instead of bringing you in on this, I should just confess for myself, here, alright.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think you can confess for the whole human race.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 For everybody around the table?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I mean, pride is the besetting sin in all of us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Hayley:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But I\u2019m thinking back to a time when I was a college freshman and I\u2019d been to camp with a bunch of high school students.\u00a0 I was one of the counselors, and this was a Christian camp.\u00a0 Midway through the session the camp director said, \u201cCan I talk to you?\u201d\u00a0 He pulled me aside and he said, \u201cYou have a pride issue.\u201d\u00a0 I was like, \u201cYou don\u2019t even know me,\u201d which is the first sign that I had a pride issue, right?\u00a0 Because I\u2019m rejecting his counsel.<\/p>\n<p>(Laughter)<\/p>\n<p>But he said, \u201cYou\u2019re trying to draw attention to yourself.\u00a0 It\u2019s got to be all about you, and our staff has been meeting, praying about you that God would do. . .\u201d\u00a0 I was like, \u201cAre you kidding me?\u201d\u00a0 I remember praying after that and going, \u201cGod, what is up with this?\u201d\u00a0 I remember one of those tap-on-the-shoulder, God-kind-of-speaking-to-your-heart -- I remember hearing, \u201cI sent him.\u201d\u00a0 And I was like, \u201cNo way.\u00a0 No.\u00a0 No.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Here was the thing:\u00a0 I was thinking, \u201cBut my gifting is this performance gifting.\u00a0 This is what I\u2019m good at.\u201d\u00a0 But what I didn\u2019t realize was that I was living it out for me, not for Jesus, and it was one of those points \u2013 it was the wake-up call.\u00a0 Here was the thing for me:\u00a0 I then spent about six to nine months telling friends, \u201cYeah, I\u2019m really struggling with, I\u2019m dealing with \u2013\u201c and I wasn\u2019t really dealing with or struggling with anything.<\/p>\n<p>I was just confessing it because that way I could kind of get along.\u00a0 I could get by.\u00a0 In fact, I got a little more attention, a little more credibility.\u00a0 I found that if you just confess, \u201cMan, I\u2019m really struggling with pride and with ego,\u201d people thought better of you.\u00a0 So it was my new way of getting attention, until God kind of smacked me around on that one too.<\/p>\n<p>These areas of death, over and over again God brings things to the surface, we see them for what they are, and we go, \u201cThat stinks.\u00a0 That\u2019s ugly,\u201d and we have to die to it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it is a core part of what Jesus taught.\u00a0 He was the one who said, \u201cHe who loses his life for my sake will find it.\u00a0 If you\u2019re like a grain of wheat, you fall on the ground and you die, you can bring forth fruit.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 If you retain your life, retain your ownership of pride, run your own show, your own happiness, what\u2019s the promise of that?\u00a0 You get what you\u2019ve lived for, yourself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You reap what you sow<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s exactly right.\u00a0 It\u2019s really interesting.\u00a0 I\u2019m listening to you talk about your marriage, and it\u2019s really pointing out\u00a0 -- I think God in heaven must smile.\u00a0 As a couple stand before the pastor on their wedding day and they promise to each other, they haven\u2019t the foggiest idea what God\u2019s agenda is in this institution of marriage.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>What He was about to do in me through Barbara, and through the children that we had the privilege of bringing into the world, was all about \u2013 one of the things, at least \u2013 was all about redeeming me from myself, calling me to die, calling me to yield to Him, surrender myself, my will, and not live for myself.\u00a0 In fact, you can\u2019t have a great marriage; you can\u2019t have a marriage as God designed it and live for yourself, can you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 Let me say it again:\u00a0 no.<\/p>\n<p>(Laughter)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019ve tried, haven\u2019t you?\u00a0 I have.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yes. The fascinating thing is that when we come to the end of ourselves, that\u2019s really when we find something valuable.\u00a0 We think that we have so much value to offer, and Bob, I didn\u2019t want to leave you hanging.\u00a0 Yes, I think we\u2019re cut from the same cloth.\u00a0 I empathize with everything that you were saying and I still struggle, and that\u2019s why there\u2019s that daily death.<\/p>\n<p>But the other thing is that example of the seed dying so that life may spring forth.\u00a0 Life can\u2019t spring forth without death.\u00a0 Well, we always picture ourselves as the farmer, like \u201cI\u2019m going to plant the seed, and \u2013\u201c\u00a0 But the seed surrenders itself to the Creator to control the conditions, the rain, the fertilizer.\u00a0 Much of the fertilizer in my own life is of my own making.\u00a0 We just spring forth new life because it\u2019s all based on Him and nothing that we do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Here\u2019s the challenge:\u00a0 Every listener, whether married or single, there will be a test.\u00a0 There will be a test on this.\u00a0 The Holy Spirit will give you a test, whether you\u2019re a Christian or not.\u00a0 He\u2019s going to line up some circumstances where you are going to have the opportunity to die, where you\u2019re going to have the privilege of saying no to your flesh and smiling at your enemy, smiling at your spouse, smiling at that child who drives you crazy.<\/p>\n<p>Instead of caving in to your own selfish desires and pride, wanting to have it your way, you\u2019re going to say to God like Hayley did, \u201cI\u2019m not going to do that anymore.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to yield to Jesus Christ.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to see what He does here,\u201d and then smile and bless that other person.\u00a0 Then have your phone nearby to call the ambulance, because there may be some \u2013<\/p>\n<p>(Laughter)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Cardiac arrests?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Some faint \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWhat have you been up to?\u201d\u00a0 Really you can have some fun with this in the midst of dying.\u00a0 You really can have some fun with this, because the kind of life Jesus Christ came to bring really is fun.\u00a0 It\u2019s an adventure.\u00a0 It may not be easy, but it is an adventure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I think there are a lot of us today who need a sober reassessment of what it is that Jesus is calling us to, because the picture we have is the picture of the abundant life and that\u2019s true.\u00a0 Jesus said He came that we might have an abundant life.\u00a0 But the problem is, our picture of what we think an abundant life is supposed to be is different that the picture that is outlined in Scripture.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s what you guys are taking us back to in the book that you\u2019ve written called <em>Die Young: Burying Your Self in Christ.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>It\u2019s a book for singles as well as married couples.\u00a0 It applies to every aspect of our lives.\u00a0 Certainly it applies in our marriage relationship, but it applies in a lot of relationships, a lot of what we have to deal with in life.<\/p>\n<p>We have copies of Michael and Hayley\u2019s book, <em>Die Young<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy.\u00a0 Again the website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You can order the book online or you can call toll-free to order; 1-800-FLTODAY; that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>Now here in the United States we\u2019re all thinking about Thanksgiving this week.\u00a0 Most of us are thinking about the holiday, though, and not really spending a lot of time thinking about what it means to be thankful people, which is, of course, what the holiday is supposed to be making us think about.<\/p>\n<p>We had an opportunity to sit down not long ago with author and speaker Nancy Leigh DeMoss, who is the host of the radio program <em>Revive Our Hearts<\/em>.\u00a0 We talked about gratitude.\u00a0 She\u2019s written a book called <em>Choosing Gratitude.<\/em>\u00a0 We talked about what it means to cultivate a spirit of thankfulness in our own lives, and how do we help our children cultivate that same heart of gratitude.<\/p>\n<p>This week we\u2019re making available CDs of our conversation with Nancy Leigh DeMoss as a way of expressing our gratitude for your support of the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 We are listener-supported; your support is what makes this program possible.\u00a0 It helps to defray the cost of producing and syndicating this daily program, keeping us on the air in cities all around the country, and online at FamilyLifeToday.com.<\/p>\n<p>So we appreciate your financial support.\u00a0 If you make a donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com, just click the button that says \u201cI CARE\u201d to make the online donation.\u00a0 We\u2019ll send you a copy of the CDs where we talk about gratitude with Nancy Leigh DeMoss.\u00a0 If you make your donation by calling us, the toll-free number is 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 Be sure to ask for the CDs on gratitude when you call and make your donation.\u00a0 We\u2019ll be happy to send them out to you.<\/p>\n<p>Let me just say thanks again for your support.\u00a0 We appreciate it.<\/p>\n<p>And we want to encourage you to be back with us again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to continue our conversation with Michael and Hayley DiMarco on the subject of dying to self and being alive in Christ.\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk about that again tomorrow.\u00a0 Hope you can be here for that.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.<\/p>\n<p>Help for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302634","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302634"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302634"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302634"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302634"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302634"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302634"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302634"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}