{"id":302632,"date":"2012-11-16T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2012-11-16T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/finding-god-in-the-stories-of-loss\/"},"modified":"2012-11-16T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2012-11-16T17:00:00","slug":"finding-god-in-the-stories-of-loss","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-god-in-the-stories-of-loss\/","title":{"rendered":"Finding God in the Stories of Loss"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In the midst of deepest suffering, where is God and why doesn&#8217;t He deliver us and answer our prayers?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-11-16.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"26.98M","filesize_raw":"28292809","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[4280,4125,2216],"podcast_series":[7911],"cwp_profile":[9167,3300],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302632","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-death","tag-loss","tag-suffering","podcast_series-a-grace-revealed","cwp_profile-jerry-sittser","cwp_profile-ron-deal","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302632\/finding-god-in-the-stories-of-loss","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302632\/finding-god-in-the-stories-of-loss","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"6CUJGhIqP3\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-god-in-the-stories-of-loss\/\">Finding God in the Stories of Loss<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-god-in-the-stories-of-loss\/embed\/#?secret=6CUJGhIqP3\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Finding God in the Stories of Loss&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"6CUJGhIqP3\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-11-16.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-11-16.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s an old saying that says, \u201cTime heals all wounds.\u201d\u00a0 The Bible says it this way, \u201cSorrow lasts for a night, but joy comes in the morning.\u201d\u00a0 Here\u2019s an illustration of that truth from Jerry Sittser:\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you\u2019re visiting a huge mountain, like Mount Rainier, and you\u2019re three miles away, it dominates the landscape.\u00a0 It\u2019s the only thing you see.\u00a0 If you back up 25 miles, the mountain doesn\u2019t change sizes but your perspective on it does.\u00a0 You always want it in the landscape, but it occupies a different place in the landscape and has a different function.\u00a0 I would say that\u2019s happened for us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, November 16<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 You may find yourself, today, in the dark night of the soul, but there is a dawn coming.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 It has been interesting to see where our conversation this week has taken us because we\u2019ve been talking about grace and redemption and story and our lives and how God is at work in them.\u00a0 In the middle of that, we took a turn and started talking about remarrieds and blended families, because our guest is a part of one of those.\u00a0 We asked our friend, Ron Deal, to come in and to join the conversation.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt this point, we are going to move in a different direction, aren\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>We are.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about an interesting subject and one that I don\u2019t know that I would have been all that good in addressing had it not been for Jerry Sittser\u2019s first book, <em>A Grace Disguised<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve had a number of people that I\u2019ve come into contact with where I\u2019ve said, \u201cI\u2019m going to send you a book.\u201d\u00a0 I send them <em>A Grace Disguised,<\/em> because it\u2019s the story of how a man and a family handled loss and handled it in a biblical, authentic way.\u00a0 It\u2019s not preachy; and because of that, I feel like I\u2019ve been able to pass on some help to people who were in the midst of, perhaps, losing hope or just needed a little bit of sunshine and put some perspective on what they are going through.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We have with us here in the studio, again, Dr. Jerry Sittser.\u00a0 Welcome back, Jerry.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 It\u2019s good to be here.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We also have Ron Deal with us.\u00a0 And Ron heads up our Blended Family Initiative here at FamilyLife.\u00a0 Welcome back, Ron.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 It\u2019s always good to be here.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, when we come to the subject of loss, Ron, and we turn to you, you have experienced something that almost is unimaginable.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know when I wrote my first book, <em>The Smart Stepfamily<\/em>, I had not lost my son.\u00a0 Every book I\u2019ve written since the death of my son, Connor\u2014he died in February of 2009 at the age of 12\u2014and I\u2019ve talked about that loss in every one of those books, with every blended family that I\u2019ve talked with since then, counseled with, in our weekend conference for stepfamilies.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I\u2019ve discovered is that no matter what kind of loss we\u2019ve gone through in life, there are some commonalities between loss, and how we deal with loss, and how we cope with it, and our search for God in the midst of the loss.\u00a0 The losses are different, the impact is different; but we\u2019re all asking those really tough questions about where God is and how we go on.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBeing with Jerry this week, sitting in on the broadcast, and talking with him some has been really a gift because you\u2019re much further down the road than I am.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNan and I went out on a date on a Saturday night.\u00a0 We went and saw the movie <em>Taken<\/em>\u2014Liam Neeson, his daughter is taken, abducted, for the purposes of child trafficking.\u00a0 It was a good movie.\u00a0 It was a good date.\u00a0 We went home.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy son, Connor, our middle son at the time\u2014we had 14, 12, and 10.\u00a0 Connor was 12.\u00a0 He had a headache.\u00a0 So, we did what all parents do.\u00a0 We gave him an ibuprofen and sent him to bed.\u00a0 What we didn\u2019t know, Jerry, was that he was being taken.\u00a0 Woke up the next morning.\u00a0 He wasn\u2019t feeling better.\u00a0 He was feeling worse.\u00a0 Nan took him to see a doctor.\u00a0 They checked him for this and that, and it was negative.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they didn\u2019t really know what to do with him.\u00a0 They said, \u201cBring him back in a couple of days if he\u2019s not feeling any better.\u201d\u00a0 In a couple of days, he had a 104 degree temperature and could hardly breathe or stand or walk.\u00a0 So, we took him directly to our doctor.\u00a0 They admitted him with pneumonia.\u00a0 It was two more days in the hospital before we knew even what was causing all of this; and it was a Mercer staph infection that had gone septic and was racing through his body and causing now double pneumonia.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey had to intubate him and breathe for him, life-flight him to another children\u2019s hospital in Dallas where they could give him better care; and long story short, from the time we went and saw the movie, <em>Taken<\/em>, it was ten days\u2014Connor was taken.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI miss him every day, and my life is before and after.\u00a0 You look for God, you know He is there; but sometimes, you\u2019re just not sure how.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTwo weeks after Connor died, my youngest son, Brennan, took me to the computer and said, \u201cLook, Dad, here is the Caring Bridge site that we put up when Connor was in the hospital.\u201d\u00a0 We were asking for people to pray for him.\u00a0 We were posting updates on his condition.\u00a0 He said, \u201cLook, Dad, 35,000 people were praying for Connor; and God still let him die.\u201d\u00a0 My ten-year-old looks at me and says, \u201cSo, why did God let him die?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy response at the time was \u201cWow.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to have to get back to you on that one.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s been an ongoing dialogue for our family ever since, trying to find our place in God\u2019s story, trying to make sense of what\u2019s happened, and then, ultimately, deciding that we can\u2019t make sense of it.\u00a0 We just have to trust God with it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut at the end of the day, for me, or anybody else that I\u2019ve talked to, when you\u2019re kind of looking at your loss\u2014whatever that loss story is, that explanation just doesn\u2019t feel adequate.\u00a0 It just leaves us in that place of a big question mark where we just don\u2019t know.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we, over and over again, come back, I think, to the Throne Room of God; and we just kind of fall on our knees and just wonder, \u201cWhat\u2019s the bigger story here?\u00a0 Will I ever know it in this life?\u00a0 I believe that I\u2019ll know it in the next life\u2014\u201c\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cIf I can\u2019t know it now, how do\u2014You give me enough grace to survive it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it\u2019s interesting you mention the word, grace.\u00a0 I think about what life would be like if there was no God and no grace at all.\u00a0 I suppose we would be spared all of those nasty theological questions we have that you\u2019ve just mentioned and more: Where is God?\u00a0 Why didn\u2019t He answer our prayers?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWithout God in the picture, it would just be a granite wall we would be staring at with no questions or answers at all.\u00a0 We would just have to say, \u201cIt\u2019s fate.\u00a0 It\u2019s the ruthlessness of the natural world that eventually is going to gobble all of us up anyway.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>It\u2019s interesting, Ron, that you said I\u2019m further down the road than you are.\u00a0 The irony is I\u2019m still on the road, and it\u2019s been 20 years for me.\u00a0 I still ask questions I can\u2019t find answers for.\u00a0 I stare at the scene of that accident.\u00a0 I look at it every day, and I still have questions.\u00a0 I still don\u2019t understand some things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you speak of the accident, you are speaking of?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 A drunken-driving accident that took the life of my mother, who was visiting us for the weekend, my wife, Linda\u2014my mother\u2019s name was Grace\u2014my wife, Linda, and my daughter, Diana Jane.\u00a0 I survived as well as three of my children\u2014then, very young.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the best I\u2019ve been able to do in this question is simply stare, sometimes, in wonder, in mystery, in question, in struggle, in doubt\u2014once in awhile even flirting on the edges of despair.\u00a0 It comes down to this, either there is no God or there\u2019s grace.\u00a0 And I want to live in a world of grace however unfair it is.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I mean what happened to me was unfair.\u00a0 What happened to you and to Connor was profoundly unfair; but I want to live in a world that\u2019s unfair if there is grace, because grace is unfair.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jerry, you mentioned you struggled with despair.\u00a0 How about doubt?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, that\u2019s a good question, Dennis.\u00a0 I would say doubt not in the sense of absolutely turning away from faith.\u00a0 You know what it was?\u00a0 It was the doubt born out of exhaustion.\u00a0 I was almost too tired to believe.\u00a0 I remember going to church with my three little ones week after week, month after month; and I was so exhausted and so beaten up by the experience I just couldn\u2019t muster any faith.\u00a0 I would just sit there.\u00a0 I wouldn\u2019t sing.\u00a0 I wouldn\u2019t pray.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs strange as this sounds, I really think the church picked me up on its back and carried me and my kids for awhile.\u00a0 Other people sang for me.\u00a0 Other people prayed for me.\u00a0 Now, I do it for other people.\u00a0 I\u2019m back to praying, and I\u2019m back to singing.\u00a0 I\u2019ve done that for lots of people in the wake of the experience.\u00a0 <br><br>I don\u2019t believe in words like recovery.\u00a0 I don\u2019t believe in words like getting over something.\u00a0 What\u2019s happened to me is that I\u2019ve moved into it.\u00a0 I\u2019ve simply absorbed the experience into my soul.\u00a0 It\u2019s a part of the landscape of my life.\u00a0 It\u2019s part of who I am, and I\u2019m able to live with that now pretty comfortably.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s part of the journey you\u2019re on.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ron, some people have been singing for you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0 I know a family that two brothers have each lost a child.\u00a0 They\u2019ve gotten involved in some amazing ministries out of their losses.\u00a0 One of them, author Mike Hope, talks about how other people intubate us during times of loss.\u00a0 It is as if God uses them to breathe for us.\u00a0 That\u2019s a metaphor that is very clear to me because Connor was intubated for seven days while he was in the hospital before he died.\u00a0 Somebody else had to breathe for him because he couldn\u2019t do it himself.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn periods of great time of stress and loss, I think that\u2019s what the church is called upon to be, as Jerry said.\u00a0 Other people come in, and they breathe for us\u2014if that\u2019s taking care of daily tasks and activities.\u00a0 Mostly, I think it\u2019s just presence.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think what I\u2019ve needed since the death of my son, what my wife has needed, and our other two boys have needed is just presence: people who will just come and be around us and talk to us and tell us they were thinking about Connor today and ask what we\u2019re thinking about as it relates to Connor today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNan talks about how every mom wants to talk about all of her kids; and one of the best gifts anybody gives her is just permission for her to also talk about Connor, because there are lots of people who really can\u2019t.\u00a0 They really don\u2019t know how to broach that subject.\u00a0 So, when they give her permission, when they bring it up, then she\u2019s free to talk about him.\u00a0 She wants to talk about him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s interesting that you should say that because just this past week, I was with my son-in-law and daughter, Jake and Rebecca, and they had a loss.\u00a0 They had a little girl who lived seven days.\u00a0 Her name was Molly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob and I just completed a new video series for men called <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>.\u00a0 In the first session of that ten-part video series, I asked the question of men, \u201cWhat is the most courageous thing you\u2019ve ever done?\u201d\u00a0 And at the end of the session, I look in the camera and say, \u201cThere are a couple of things that come to my mind in terms of the most courageous thing I\u2019ve ever done.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cOne of them is the seven days I spent in the valley with my daughter and son-in-law over the loss of their first-born little girl.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s a double loss for me.\u00a0 I was not only losing a granddaughter; but I was experiencing the loss that Jake and Rebecca were going through as well.\u00a0 I spoke about it on that video.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was going to show them the video this past weekend because I wanted them to see it; and I decided not to because we\u2019d really had kind of an upbeat fun time.\u00a0 It was like the insertion of that video was going to do something that I thought, \u201cThis is just not the trip to show that.\u201d\u00a0 But I pulled them aside near the end of our time with them; and I said, \u201cI want you to know that I wanted to show you this video, but I didn\u2019t want it to be a downer for you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd my daughter looked at me, and she said\u2014and so did Jake\u2014they basically said the same thing, \u201cThank you for mentioning Molly\u2019s life, for honoring her and calling attention to one of the shortest lives ever lived, seven days, and how her legacy is mighty.\u201d\u00a0 They just said, \u201cNo.\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 We have so many people who don\u2019t know what to say to us in the midst of our loss.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut to engage with you around Connor is to honor his life and what he lived for and what you and Nan have been through since his death.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s awkward to do.\u00a0 It\u2019s worth doing.\u00a0 The other thing you discover is that when you tell the story and you simply remain present to the body of Christ\u2014even if you are a heavy, obvious presence\u2014is that you release other people to be able to tell their stories too; and you discover the incredible variety of losses that people go through, whether it\u2019s the loss of a child, as you\u2019ve experienced, Ron--and I have-- or the loss of a grandchild, or the loss of a marriage, or a job, or a dream, or health, or on and on it goes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We do live in a fallen world, you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember talking to my son many years ago, and this analogy came to mind.\u00a0 When you\u2019re visiting a huge mountain, like Mount Rainier, and you\u2019re three miles away, it dominates the landscape.\u00a0 It\u2019s the only thing you see.\u00a0 If you back up 25 miles\u2014and we\u2019ll take those 25 miles as time distance, not just physical distance\u2014the mountain doesn\u2019t change sizes but your perspective on it does.\u00a0 You always want it in the landscape, but it occupies a different place in the landscape and has a different function.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say that\u2019s happened for us.\u00a0 I look at my story.\u00a0 I look at what my kids are like.\u00a0 I look at how much fun they are and how healthy and alive and interesting\u2014and I\u2019m so, so proud of them; but it\u2019s all a part of our story.\u00a0 Diana Jane is, their mom is, their grandmother is.\u00a0 It comes up often in conversations.\u00a0 <br><br>Fortunately, my new wife, Patricia, was a woman of unusual maturity and grace and dignity.\u00a0 She honors all those stories and preserves them and helps carry them as kind of the property of the family.\u00a0 Far from being bitter, it\u2019s actually more beautiful than anything.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019ve just gotten near the edge of answering the question I wanted to ask you, Jerry.\u00a0 All this week we\u2019ve talked about grace.\u00a0 Would you do your best to explain the beauty of what grace is?\u00a0 It\u2019s more than the definition; it\u2019s the experience of what that grace looks like.\u00a0 There has to be a listener who is in such a place of despair that they need to have that picture painted.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, first, I would never shame them out of despair.\u00a0 I mean when you go through a hard experience, it\u2019s just plain hard.\u00a0 I never whitewash that, Dennis.\u00a0 I can\u2019t in good conscience.\u00a0 I remember how hard it was for me and in some ways still is.\u00a0 <br><br>Here\u2019s what I hear often after a person goes through some kind of loss: \u201cIt\u2019s not fair;\u201d and I always agree with them.\u00a0 \u201cIt\u2019s not fair.\u201d\u00a0 Losing Connor at the age of 12 was not fair.\u00a0 Losing Molly at seven days was not fair.\u00a0 That isn\u2019t the way life was intended to be.\u00a0 It\u2019s not the way God designed life.\u00a0 He didn\u2019t design it for death and despair and suffering and grief and all the rest; but it\u2019s happened because we live in a fallen world.\u00a0 <br><br>Then, I come to this: grace is not fair either.\u00a0 It is lavished upon people who are broken, who are sinful, who are fallen.\u00a0 God takes us in our brokenness and in our sinfulness and in all the rest of the pain that we carry, sometimes\u2014in fact, often\u2014for the rest of our lives, and somehow takes that in His hand and loves us and nurtures us and carries on that story, and somehow through it all begins to show its beauty and excellence and purity.\u00a0 That\u2019s the work He wants to do in all of us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe\u2019s demonstrated that through Jesus Christ.\u00a0 You talk about a story of pain and suffering and loss.\u00a0 This man\u2014this man who could have thrown the trump card of His divinity down at any moment and utterly destroy His enemies goes to the Cross for our sake and experiences a level of loss, humiliation, brokenness, death, and Hell that we will never be able to comprehend.\u00a0 This is God, experiencing this, and did it for our sake.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>He will take the brokenness of our lives and somehow turn it out for healing and beauty and good.\u00a0 Got to give Him room to do it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It takes faith to give Him that room.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It takes faith to give Him that room.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Trust, surrender, faith.\u00a0 It\u2019s not always easy, and it does involve despair and doubt and discouragement, failure; but you keep on believing and you keep on getting up and continuing the journey.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Think of one biblical story that was happy from beginning to end.\u00a0 There isn\u2019t one\u2014not one.\u00a0 Yet, you read these stories now because we know how they turn out, right?\u00a0 You think, \u201cOh my goodness!\u00a0 What an amazing story that is.\u201d\u00a0 We fantasize this sort of carefree, lovely story line of our lives where there are no problems, no difficulties, no obstructions, no obstacles\u2014nothing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Heaven\u2014that\u2019s Heaven.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s Heaven.\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 On earth, it\u2019s not real, and it\u2019s boring; but God takes narratives that are all messed up\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and somehow works them out for good.\u00a0 And Jesus Christ is the ultimate proof of that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ron, I want to thank you for sharing your story today.\u00a0 We want to come back at some point in the future, get Nan in here, and have you guys share more of the lessons that have been learned in your family and how God is using it with a little ministry you\u2019ve got going on in Africa to reach out to orphans.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJerry, it\u2019s been a treat to have you back for a week.\u00a0 Thanks for being a guy from the Northwest and coming back into the South and hanging out with a couple of Southern guys.\u00a0 That\u2019s quite a tribute to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Speak for yourself, will you?\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we\u2019re actually Midwesterners\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014from Missouri, but thanks for being with us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s all about grace.\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You mentioned the ministry that the Deal\u2019s have established in Africa.\u00a0 We\u2019ve got a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com for Conner\u2019s Song.\u00a0 If you\u2019d like to find out more about the work that\u2019s being done there, again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 There\u2019s also information about Jerry\u2019s book, <em>A Grace Revealed<\/em>, Ron Deal\u2019s brand new book, <em>Dating and the Single Parent<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on these resources; or you can call if you\u2019d like to order the books.\u00a0 1-800-FL-TODAY is our toll-free number.\u00a0 That\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur hope here at FamilyLife is that what we do through these broadcasts, with what we\u2019ve got on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com, all of the outreaches and ministries that are a part of what we\u2019re doing\u2014our hope, our goal, is that God will take this and press it into folks\u2019 lives, so that homes, marriages, relationships between parents and children, extended family members can be Christ-exalting, Christ-honoring.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo there can be peace in those relationships.\u00a0 So that there can be unity in those relationships\u2014things that the Bible talks about.\u00a0 We want to see every home become a godly home.\u00a0 That\u2019s the reason we do this radio program.\u00a0 That\u2019s our mission at FamilyLife: every home a godly home.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Some of you share that vision.\u00a0 We know that because you not only listen to this program but because you also help support the ministry.\u00a0 You want to keep the program on your local station, on the network of stations we\u2019re on all across the country.\u00a0 You want to keep our website up and vibrant, and you realize that without your support we couldn\u2019t continue to do what we do here.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to say thanks to those of you who have helped in the past, and we want to say thanks to those of you who are able to help today with a donation.\u00a0 We have a two-CD set we\u2019d like to send you as a thank you gift.\u00a0 We had a conversation not long ago with Nancy Leigh DeMoss who wrote a book on gratitude\u2014talked with her about how we cultivate a heart of gratefulness and how we encourage our children to become more grateful as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We\u2019d love to send you those two CDs as our way of saying thank you for your support of the ministry.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, click the button that says, \u201cI CARE,\u201d and make an online donation; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, make a donation over the phone, and we\u2019ll send you the CDs with Nancy Leigh DeMoss talking about gratitude.\u00a0 Just be sure to ask for them when you make your donation.\u00a0 <br><br>Again, let me just say how much we appreciate your partnership with us here in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and we hope you can join us back on Monday.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about what it means to be a living sacrifice.\u00a0 What does it mean to be dead to self and alive to God?\u00a0 Michael and Hayley DiMarco join us to talk about that.\u00a0 Hope you can be here as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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the midst of deepest suffering, where is God and why doesn't He deliver us and answer our prayers?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-11-16.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s an old saying that says, \u201cTime heals all wounds.\u201d\u00a0 The Bible says it this way, \u201cSorrow lasts for a night, but joy comes in the morning.\u201d\u00a0 Here\u2019s an illustration of that truth from Jerry Sittser:\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you\u2019re visiting a huge mountain, like Mount Rainier, and you\u2019re three miles away, it dominates the landscape.\u00a0 It\u2019s the only thing you see.\u00a0 If you back up 25 miles, the mountain doesn\u2019t change sizes but your perspective on it does.\u00a0 You always want it in the landscape, but it occupies a different place in the landscape and has a different function.\u00a0 I would say that\u2019s happened for us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, November 16<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 You may find yourself, today, in the dark night of the soul, but there is a dawn coming.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 It has been interesting to see where our conversation this week has taken us because we\u2019ve been talking about grace and redemption and story and our lives and how God is at work in them.\u00a0 In the middle of that, we took a turn and started talking about remarrieds and blended families, because our guest is a part of one of those.\u00a0 We asked our friend, Ron Deal, to come in and to join the conversation.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt this point, we are going to move in a different direction, aren\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>We are.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about an interesting subject and one that I don\u2019t know that I would have been all that good in addressing had it not been for Jerry Sittser\u2019s first book, <em>A Grace Disguised<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve had a number of people that I\u2019ve come into contact with where I\u2019ve said, \u201cI\u2019m going to send you a book.\u201d\u00a0 I send them <em>A Grace Disguised,<\/em> because it\u2019s the story of how a man and a family handled loss and handled it in a biblical, authentic way.\u00a0 It\u2019s not preachy; and because of that, I feel like I\u2019ve been able to pass on some help to people who were in the midst of, perhaps, losing hope or just needed a little bit of sunshine and put some perspective on what they are going through.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We have with us here in the studio, again, Dr. Jerry Sittser.\u00a0 Welcome back, Jerry.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 It\u2019s good to be here.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We also have Ron Deal with us.\u00a0 And Ron heads up our Blended Family Initiative here at FamilyLife.\u00a0 Welcome back, Ron.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 It\u2019s always good to be here.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, when we come to the subject of loss, Ron, and we turn to you, you have experienced something that almost is unimaginable.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know when I wrote my first book, <em>The Smart Stepfamily<\/em>, I had not lost my son.\u00a0 Every book I\u2019ve written since the death of my son, Connor\u2014he died in February of 2009 at the age of 12\u2014and I\u2019ve talked about that loss in every one of those books, with every blended family that I\u2019ve talked with since then, counseled with, in our weekend conference for stepfamilies.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I\u2019ve discovered is that no matter what kind of loss we\u2019ve gone through in life, there are some commonalities between loss, and how we deal with loss, and how we cope with it, and our search for God in the midst of the loss.\u00a0 The losses are different, the impact is different; but we\u2019re all asking those really tough questions about where God is and how we go on.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBeing with Jerry this week, sitting in on the broadcast, and talking with him some has been really a gift because you\u2019re much further down the road than I am.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNan and I went out on a date on a Saturday night.\u00a0 We went and saw the movie <em>Taken<\/em>\u2014Liam Neeson, his daughter is taken, abducted, for the purposes of child trafficking.\u00a0 It was a good movie.\u00a0 It was a good date.\u00a0 We went home.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy son, Connor, our middle son at the time\u2014we had 14, 12, and 10.\u00a0 Connor was 12.\u00a0 He had a headache.\u00a0 So, we did what all parents do.\u00a0 We gave him an ibuprofen and sent him to bed.\u00a0 What we didn\u2019t know, Jerry, was that he was being taken.\u00a0 Woke up the next morning.\u00a0 He wasn\u2019t feeling better.\u00a0 He was feeling worse.\u00a0 Nan took him to see a doctor.\u00a0 They checked him for this and that, and it was negative.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they didn\u2019t really know what to do with him.\u00a0 They said, \u201cBring him back in a couple of days if he\u2019s not feeling any better.\u201d\u00a0 In a couple of days, he had a 104 degree temperature and could hardly breathe or stand or walk.\u00a0 So, we took him directly to our doctor.\u00a0 They admitted him with pneumonia.\u00a0 It was two more days in the hospital before we knew even what was causing all of this; and it was a Mercer staph infection that had gone septic and was racing through his body and causing now double pneumonia.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey had to intubate him and breathe for him, life-flight him to another children\u2019s hospital in Dallas where they could give him better care; and long story short, from the time we went and saw the movie, <em>Taken<\/em>, it was ten days\u2014Connor was taken.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI miss him every day, and my life is before and after.\u00a0 You look for God, you know He is there; but sometimes, you\u2019re just not sure how.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTwo weeks after Connor died, my youngest son, Brennan, took me to the computer and said, \u201cLook, Dad, here is the Caring Bridge site that we put up when Connor was in the hospital.\u201d\u00a0 We were asking for people to pray for him.\u00a0 We were posting updates on his condition.\u00a0 He said, \u201cLook, Dad, 35,000 people were praying for Connor; and God still let him die.\u201d\u00a0 My ten-year-old looks at me and says, \u201cSo, why did God let him die?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy response at the time was \u201cWow.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to have to get back to you on that one.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s been an ongoing dialogue for our family ever since, trying to find our place in God\u2019s story, trying to make sense of what\u2019s happened, and then, ultimately, deciding that we can\u2019t make sense of it.\u00a0 We just have to trust God with it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut at the end of the day, for me, or anybody else that I\u2019ve talked to, when you\u2019re kind of looking at your loss\u2014whatever that loss story is, that explanation just doesn\u2019t feel adequate.\u00a0 It just leaves us in that place of a big question mark where we just don\u2019t know.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we, over and over again, come back, I think, to the Throne Room of God; and we just kind of fall on our knees and just wonder, \u201cWhat\u2019s the bigger story here?\u00a0 Will I ever know it in this life?\u00a0 I believe that I\u2019ll know it in the next life\u2014\u201c\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cIf I can\u2019t know it now, how do\u2014You give me enough grace to survive it.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it\u2019s interesting you mention the word, grace.\u00a0 I think about what life would be like if there was no God and no grace at all.\u00a0 I suppose we would be spared all of those nasty theological questions we have that you\u2019ve just mentioned and more: Where is God?\u00a0 Why didn\u2019t He answer our prayers?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWithout God in the picture, it would just be a granite wall we would be staring at with no questions or answers at all.\u00a0 We would just have to say, \u201cIt\u2019s fate.\u00a0 It\u2019s the ruthlessness of the natural world that eventually is going to gobble all of us up anyway.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>It\u2019s interesting, Ron, that you said I\u2019m further down the road than you are.\u00a0 The irony is I\u2019m still on the road, and it\u2019s been 20 years for me.\u00a0 I still ask questions I can\u2019t find answers for.\u00a0 I stare at the scene of that accident.\u00a0 I look at it every day, and I still have questions.\u00a0 I still don\u2019t understand some things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you speak of the accident, you are speaking of?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 A drunken-driving accident that took the life of my mother, who was visiting us for the weekend, my wife, Linda\u2014my mother\u2019s name was Grace\u2014my wife, Linda, and my daughter, Diana Jane.\u00a0 I survived as well as three of my children\u2014then, very young.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the best I\u2019ve been able to do in this question is simply stare, sometimes, in wonder, in mystery, in question, in struggle, in doubt\u2014once in awhile even flirting on the edges of despair.\u00a0 It comes down to this, either there is no God or there\u2019s grace.\u00a0 And I want to live in a world of grace however unfair it is.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I mean what happened to me was unfair.\u00a0 What happened to you and to Connor was profoundly unfair; but I want to live in a world that\u2019s unfair if there is grace, because grace is unfair.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jerry, you mentioned you struggled with despair.\u00a0 How about doubt?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, that\u2019s a good question, Dennis.\u00a0 I would say doubt not in the sense of absolutely turning away from faith.\u00a0 You know what it was?\u00a0 It was the doubt born out of exhaustion.\u00a0 I was almost too tired to believe.\u00a0 I remember going to church with my three little ones week after week, month after month; and I was so exhausted and so beaten up by the experience I just couldn\u2019t muster any faith.\u00a0 I would just sit there.\u00a0 I wouldn\u2019t sing.\u00a0 I wouldn\u2019t pray.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs strange as this sounds, I really think the church picked me up on its back and carried me and my kids for awhile.\u00a0 Other people sang for me.\u00a0 Other people prayed for me.\u00a0 Now, I do it for other people.\u00a0 I\u2019m back to praying, and I\u2019m back to singing.\u00a0 I\u2019ve done that for lots of people in the wake of the experience.\u00a0 <br><br>I don\u2019t believe in words like recovery.\u00a0 I don\u2019t believe in words like getting over something.\u00a0 What\u2019s happened to me is that I\u2019ve moved into it.\u00a0 I\u2019ve simply absorbed the experience into my soul.\u00a0 It\u2019s a part of the landscape of my life.\u00a0 It\u2019s part of who I am, and I\u2019m able to live with that now pretty comfortably.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s part of the journey you\u2019re on.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ron, some people have been singing for you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0 I know a family that two brothers have each lost a child.\u00a0 They\u2019ve gotten involved in some amazing ministries out of their losses.\u00a0 One of them, author Mike Hope, talks about how other people intubate us during times of loss.\u00a0 It is as if God uses them to breathe for us.\u00a0 That\u2019s a metaphor that is very clear to me because Connor was intubated for seven days while he was in the hospital before he died.\u00a0 Somebody else had to breathe for him because he couldn\u2019t do it himself.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn periods of great time of stress and loss, I think that\u2019s what the church is called upon to be, as Jerry said.\u00a0 Other people come in, and they breathe for us\u2014if that\u2019s taking care of daily tasks and activities.\u00a0 Mostly, I think it\u2019s just presence.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think what I\u2019ve needed since the death of my son, what my wife has needed, and our other two boys have needed is just presence: people who will just come and be around us and talk to us and tell us they were thinking about Connor today and ask what we\u2019re thinking about as it relates to Connor today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNan talks about how every mom wants to talk about all of her kids; and one of the best gifts anybody gives her is just permission for her to also talk about Connor, because there are lots of people who really can\u2019t.\u00a0 They really don\u2019t know how to broach that subject.\u00a0 So, when they give her permission, when they bring it up, then she\u2019s free to talk about him.\u00a0 She wants to talk about him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s interesting that you should say that because just this past week, I was with my son-in-law and daughter, Jake and Rebecca, and they had a loss.\u00a0 They had a little girl who lived seven days.\u00a0 Her name was Molly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob and I just completed a new video series for men called <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>.\u00a0 In the first session of that ten-part video series, I asked the question of men, \u201cWhat is the most courageous thing you\u2019ve ever done?\u201d\u00a0 And at the end of the session, I look in the camera and say, \u201cThere are a couple of things that come to my mind in terms of the most courageous thing I\u2019ve ever done.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cOne of them is the seven days I spent in the valley with my daughter and son-in-law over the loss of their first-born little girl.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s a double loss for me.\u00a0 I was not only losing a granddaughter; but I was experiencing the loss that Jake and Rebecca were going through as well.\u00a0 I spoke about it on that video.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was going to show them the video this past weekend because I wanted them to see it; and I decided not to because we\u2019d really had kind of an upbeat fun time.\u00a0 It was like the insertion of that video was going to do something that I thought, \u201cThis is just not the trip to show that.\u201d\u00a0 But I pulled them aside near the end of our time with them; and I said, \u201cI want you to know that I wanted to show you this video, but I didn\u2019t want it to be a downer for you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd my daughter looked at me, and she said\u2014and so did Jake\u2014they basically said the same thing, \u201cThank you for mentioning Molly\u2019s life, for honoring her and calling attention to one of the shortest lives ever lived, seven days, and how her legacy is mighty.\u201d\u00a0 They just said, \u201cNo.\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 We have so many people who don\u2019t know what to say to us in the midst of our loss.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut to engage with you around Connor is to honor his life and what he lived for and what you and Nan have been through since his death.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s awkward to do.\u00a0 It\u2019s worth doing.\u00a0 The other thing you discover is that when you tell the story and you simply remain present to the body of Christ\u2014even if you are a heavy, obvious presence\u2014is that you release other people to be able to tell their stories too; and you discover the incredible variety of losses that people go through, whether it\u2019s the loss of a child, as you\u2019ve experienced, Ron--and I have-- or the loss of a grandchild, or the loss of a marriage, or a job, or a dream, or health, or on and on it goes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We do live in a fallen world, you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember talking to my son many years ago, and this analogy came to mind.\u00a0 When you\u2019re visiting a huge mountain, like Mount Rainier, and you\u2019re three miles away, it dominates the landscape.\u00a0 It\u2019s the only thing you see.\u00a0 If you back up 25 miles\u2014and we\u2019ll take those 25 miles as time distance, not just physical distance\u2014the mountain doesn\u2019t change sizes but your perspective on it does.\u00a0 You always want it in the landscape, but it occupies a different place in the landscape and has a different function.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say that\u2019s happened for us.\u00a0 I look at my story.\u00a0 I look at what my kids are like.\u00a0 I look at how much fun they are and how healthy and alive and interesting\u2014and I\u2019m so, so proud of them; but it\u2019s all a part of our story.\u00a0 Diana Jane is, their mom is, their grandmother is.\u00a0 It comes up often in conversations.\u00a0 <br><br>Fortunately, my new wife, Patricia, was a woman of unusual maturity and grace and dignity.\u00a0 She honors all those stories and preserves them and helps carry them as kind of the property of the family.\u00a0 Far from being bitter, it\u2019s actually more beautiful than anything.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019ve just gotten near the edge of answering the question I wanted to ask you, Jerry.\u00a0 All this week we\u2019ve talked about grace.\u00a0 Would you do your best to explain the beauty of what grace is?\u00a0 It\u2019s more than the definition; it\u2019s the experience of what that grace looks like.\u00a0 There has to be a listener who is in such a place of despair that they need to have that picture painted.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, first, I would never shame them out of despair.\u00a0 I mean when you go through a hard experience, it\u2019s just plain hard.\u00a0 I never whitewash that, Dennis.\u00a0 I can\u2019t in good conscience.\u00a0 I remember how hard it was for me and in some ways still is.\u00a0 <br><br>Here\u2019s what I hear often after a person goes through some kind of loss: \u201cIt\u2019s not fair;\u201d and I always agree with them.\u00a0 \u201cIt\u2019s not fair.\u201d\u00a0 Losing Connor at the age of 12 was not fair.\u00a0 Losing Molly at seven days was not fair.\u00a0 That isn\u2019t the way life was intended to be.\u00a0 It\u2019s not the way God designed life.\u00a0 He didn\u2019t design it for death and despair and suffering and grief and all the rest; but it\u2019s happened because we live in a fallen world.\u00a0 <br><br>Then, I come to this: grace is not fair either.\u00a0 It is lavished upon people who are broken, who are sinful, who are fallen.\u00a0 God takes us in our brokenness and in our sinfulness and in all the rest of the pain that we carry, sometimes\u2014in fact, often\u2014for the rest of our lives, and somehow takes that in His hand and loves us and nurtures us and carries on that story, and somehow through it all begins to show its beauty and excellence and purity.\u00a0 That\u2019s the work He wants to do in all of us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe\u2019s demonstrated that through Jesus Christ.\u00a0 You talk about a story of pain and suffering and loss.\u00a0 This man\u2014this man who could have thrown the trump card of His divinity down at any moment and utterly destroy His enemies goes to the Cross for our sake and experiences a level of loss, humiliation, brokenness, death, and Hell that we will never be able to comprehend.\u00a0 This is God, experiencing this, and did it for our sake.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>He will take the brokenness of our lives and somehow turn it out for healing and beauty and good.\u00a0 Got to give Him room to do it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It takes faith to give Him that room.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It takes faith to give Him that room.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Trust, surrender, faith.\u00a0 It\u2019s not always easy, and it does involve despair and doubt and discouragement, failure; but you keep on believing and you keep on getting up and continuing the journey.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Think of one biblical story that was happy from beginning to end.\u00a0 There isn\u2019t one\u2014not one.\u00a0 Yet, you read these stories now because we know how they turn out, right?\u00a0 You think, \u201cOh my goodness!\u00a0 What an amazing story that is.\u201d\u00a0 We fantasize this sort of carefree, lovely story line of our lives where there are no problems, no difficulties, no obstructions, no obstacles\u2014nothing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Heaven\u2014that\u2019s Heaven.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s Heaven.\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 On earth, it\u2019s not real, and it\u2019s boring; but God takes narratives that are all messed up\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and somehow works them out for good.\u00a0 And Jesus Christ is the ultimate proof of that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ron, I want to thank you for sharing your story today.\u00a0 We want to come back at some point in the future, get Nan in here, and have you guys share more of the lessons that have been learned in your family and how God is using it with a little ministry you\u2019ve got going on in Africa to reach out to orphans.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJerry, it\u2019s been a treat to have you back for a week.\u00a0 Thanks for being a guy from the Northwest and coming back into the South and hanging out with a couple of Southern guys.\u00a0 That\u2019s quite a tribute to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Speak for yourself, will you?\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we\u2019re actually Midwesterners\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014from Missouri, but thanks for being with us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s all about grace.\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You mentioned the ministry that the Deal\u2019s have established in Africa.\u00a0 We\u2019ve got a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com for Conner\u2019s Song.\u00a0 If you\u2019d like to find out more about the work that\u2019s being done there, again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 There\u2019s also information about Jerry\u2019s book, <em>A Grace Revealed<\/em>, Ron Deal\u2019s brand new book, <em>Dating and the Single Parent<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on these resources; or you can call if you\u2019d like to order the books.\u00a0 1-800-FL-TODAY is our toll-free number.\u00a0 That\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur hope here at FamilyLife is that what we do through these broadcasts, with what we\u2019ve got on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com, all of the outreaches and ministries that are a part of what we\u2019re doing\u2014our hope, our goal, is that God will take this and press it into folks\u2019 lives, so that homes, marriages, relationships between parents and children, extended family members can be Christ-exalting, Christ-honoring.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo there can be peace in those relationships.\u00a0 So that there can be unity in those relationships\u2014things that the Bible talks about.\u00a0 We want to see every home become a godly home.\u00a0 That\u2019s the reason we do this radio program.\u00a0 That\u2019s our mission at FamilyLife: every home a godly home.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Some of you share that vision.\u00a0 We know that because you not only listen to this program but because you also help support the ministry.\u00a0 You want to keep the program on your local station, on the network of stations we\u2019re on all across the country.\u00a0 You want to keep our website up and vibrant, and you realize that without your support we couldn\u2019t continue to do what we do here.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to say thanks to those of you who have helped in the past, and we want to say thanks to those of you who are able to help today with a donation.\u00a0 We have a two-CD set we\u2019d like to send you as a thank you gift.\u00a0 We had a conversation not long ago with Nancy Leigh DeMoss who wrote a book on gratitude\u2014talked with her about how we cultivate a heart of gratefulness and how we encourage our children to become more grateful as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We\u2019d love to send you those two CDs as our way of saying thank you for your support of the ministry.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, click the button that says, \u201cI CARE,\u201d and make an online donation; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, make a donation over the phone, and we\u2019ll send you the CDs with Nancy Leigh DeMoss talking about gratitude.\u00a0 Just be sure to ask for them when you make your donation.\u00a0 <br><br>Again, let me just say how much we appreciate your partnership with us here in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and we hope you can join us back on Monday.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about what it means to be a living sacrifice.\u00a0 What does it mean to be dead to self and alive to God?\u00a0 Michael and Hayley DiMarco join us to talk about that.\u00a0 Hope you can be here as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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